Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: knny187 on December 04, 2006, 11:09:22 AM
-
I personally think this is a good idea. I don't believe the guy should be up for a death sentence....but I do believe pets are considered family members & not just property.
Courts Ponder Value of Man's Best Friend
By DAVID GRAM, AP
NORTHFIELD, Vt. (Dec. 4) -- When Denis and Sarah Scheele's dog was fatally shot after wandering onto a man's property, they sued - and not just for damages. The couple also wanted compensation for their emotional distress and loss of companionship.
Their case is one of a growing number around the country that asks courts to recognize what dog owners already do: that man's best friend is worth more than its retail price.
"When you lose something like that, the loss is immeasurable," said Sarah Scheele, 47. "You can't just go to a pet store and buy another animal. It doesn't replace the family member that was lost."
Unable to have children, the Scheeles got two dogs instead. They fed them human food, brushed their teeth and put coats on them when it rained.
The Scheeles say the death of Shadow, a shepherd-chow-spaniel mix they called their "little boy," entitles them to damages beyond the direct expenses typically awarded in such cases.
Historically, courts have allowed people suing over the death of an animal to collect such expenses as its purchase price and veterinary bills.
"Courts look at market value, and I don't think that reflects society's values," said the couple's attorney, Heidi Groff.
The Scheeles' case began in July 2003, when they drove from their home in Annapolis, Md., to Vermont to watch his aunt and uncle renew their wedding vows. They planned to leave the dogs in their truck during the service.
They got to the church early, so they let the dogs loose, a violation of the leash law in Northfield, which is 10 miles south of Montpelier.
The dogs wandered into Lewis Dustin's yard. Dustin, 70, who had been squirrel hunting that day, had a combination BB and pellet gun at the ready.
According to the Scheeles, Shadow didn't menace Dustin. But Dustin fired a pellet at Shadow in hopes of scaring him off.
Instead, the shot penetrated the dog's chest and severed an aorta. Shadow died en route to a veterinarian's office.
Dustin later pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of animal cruelty. He was given a year of probation and ordered to perform 100 hours of community service and pay $4,000 in restitution.
A judge ruled in the Scheeles' civil suit that there is no provision in Vermont law that would allow them to recover damages for the loss of Shadow's companionship or for emotional distress.
The couple plan to appeal to the state Supreme Court.
"What we're trying to do is expand the law to recognize that the companionship between a dog and its owner is such that the owner is entitled to compensation" when that relationship is destroyed, said David Putter, an attorney hired to help with the appeal.
Though the attorneys acknowledge it's a novel legal theory, noting that people can't sue for loss of companionship in the deaths of best friends or domestic partners, they want an exception for four-legged friends.
In recent years, trial courts in Florida, New York, Illinois, California, Oregon and Washington have carved out a category for pets that is somewhere between property and people.
An appeals court in Washington state last May created a new tort called "malicious injury to a pet," which allows someone to collect emotional distress damages. The case involved three teenagers who doused a cat with gasoline and lit it on fire. The cat was euthanized.
Animal law expert Geordie Duckler said appellate courts have lagged society at large in recognizing the relationship between a pet and its owner.
"As soon as some good appellate panel (of judges) recognizes this special relationship that people have had for a long time with their pets, I think it will be like the flip of a light switch," and the law nationwide will change, said Duckler, a Portland, Ore., lawyer.
For his part, Dustin believes the issue has been overblown.
"These people think that this dog is a human being," he said. "It's not a human being. And that dog was trespassing."
Dustin, 74, said he can't afford a lawyer and would take whatever comes as the litigation continues.
"If they want to put me in jail, that's what they can do," he said. "I'm not going to pay them anything because I don't owe them anything. All I'm going to do is go to court and go through the motions."
Sarah Scheele said she and her husband are pursing the case to honor Shadow.
"We're not in it for the money," she said. "We want to get national legislation that will recognize pets as companions and not just property."
-
There needs to be tougher laws against animal abuse. Dog fighters and irresponsible abusive assholes need to pay. There needs to be legit punishment. Not this fine and slap on the wrist shit.
-
Agreed. I don't think an exact value can be put on a dog, but its certainly greater than what most courts would award. Why he decided to scare the dog off with a pellet gun is beyond me. He can't throw a rock in its direction or walk inside if he's scared???? Sounds to me like the guy wanted to intentionaly be cruel.
-
If a dog walks into someone's property then it's fair game.
I can understand if the guy was out to kill the dog, but the dog wandered into his property.
-
Agreed. I don't think an exact value can be put on a dog, but its certainly greater than what most courts would award. Why he decided to scare the dog off with a pellet gun is beyond me. He can't throw a rock in its direction or walk inside if he's scared???? Sounds to me like the guy wanted to intentionaly be cruel.
Agreed. The kids are gone, so the dogs are our family. Some would get others wouldn't. That guy was so wrong that he needs punishment for killing what was obviously their pet and not a wild animal in the woods. Shooters must be held accountable for what they shoot. It's not a shoot first ask questions next society we live in. Give the guy a year to think know what separation from a loved one, even a dog, or cat in Knny's case is like.
-
If a dog walks into someone's property then it's fair game.
I can understand if the guy was out to kill the dog, but the dog wandered into his property.
This is a good point. You guys know how much of a dog lover I am. But the owners need to be more responsible with there animals. While this is a sad situation you cannot expect criminal action with this particular case. The owners should be mad at themselves for letting the dog roam. The shooter is ob an asshole.But in this case severe criminal action is not called for. Guy is still a dick tho.
I am talking about people who harm and abuse animals. Dog fighters. People who torture animals. Etc etc.
-
If a dog walks into someone's property then it's fair game.
I can understand if the guy was out to kill the dog, but the dog wandered into his property.
I agree. Death sentance for killing a dog? Get real you fucking looneys. What next? Legalized marriage with pets? ::)
-
I think the issue I am bringing up is; how hard would it have been for this guy to have pickedup the phone and called animal control or the owners? Even if this was a complete stray, had an animal control officer or SPCA officer to neighbors had seen this incident, its still animal abuse in their eyes and worthy of a fine or imprisonment.
-
This is a good point. You guys know how much of a dog lover I am. But the owners need to be more responsible with there animals. While this is a sad situation you cannot expect criminal action with this particular case. The owners should be mad at themselves for letting the dog roam. The shooter is ob an asshole.But in this case severe criminal action is not called for. Guy is still a dick tho.
I am talking about people who harm and abuse animals. Dog fighters. People who torture animals. Etc etc.
I agree with you, abusing and hurting animals is wrong. But owners should be angry with themselves for letting their loving pet wander into someone's property. Shooting the dog was excessive and unnecessary, but the dog's owners can't really say anything because they let their dog wander. Dogs are animals and should be on leashes at all times.
-
I agree with you, abusing and hurting animals is wrong. But owners should be angry with themselves for letting their loving pet wander into someone's property. Shooting the dog was excessive and unnecessary, but the dog's owners can't really say anything because they let their dog wander. Dogs are animals and should be on leashes at all times.
i definetely agree, but there are many options OTHER than shooting the dog.
-
i definetely agree, but there are many options OTHER than shooting the dog.
The guy should get fined atleast, not imprisonment. This was not a person and I don't give a shit how much the those guys loved that animal.
-
i definetely agree, but there are many options OTHER than shooting the dog.
True. That is why i believe the cruelty charge and large fine was warrented. Since this guy took it to the extreme . But because it was his property and the dog could have been a nuisance, criminal action should not have been taken.
If this guy had shot the dog off his property. Or abused it in anyway. He then should face stiff criminal charges.
I do agree with you tho. Shooting the poor little guy was a dick move >:(
-
If only he used a paintball gun...
I would be much more harsh with a younger person. but since this guy was 70 I think you could kind of expect him to act this way. Still sucks for the dog :-[
-
You're kidding right. I love my dog but I would just pummle the shooter's ass and then make him buy me a new dog. Other than that, why go to court.
Pummel a 70 year old dudes ass. Felony. Assault on a person ofer 60 is much worse than just pummeling a 25 year old. Do it your way and you won't see xmas for atleast 3 years, if you'r lucky. Let the law do it's job.
-
So he killed a dog, so what!
No doubt it was wandering around shitting everywhere
This picture says it all really. She's sat with the dogs whilst he's on the bottom rung like a mug. He knows his lowly place in that house lol
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=110524.0;attach=124315)
-
I think the issue I am bringing up is; how hard would it have been for this guy to have pickedup the phone and called animal control or the owners? Even if this was a complete stray, had an animal control officer or SPCA officer to neighbors had seen this incident, its still animal abuse in their eyes and worthy of a fine or imprisonment.
The owners were from out of town, I think. If you've ever been to Northfield, Vermont, you might revise your opinion. :-\ It's a rural area, so it would take the SPCA about an hour or two to get there...and old country folk have a different attitude towards nature. Plus the guy had been squirrel hunting... what does that tell you? :P
-
Plus the guy had been squirrel hunting... what does that tell you? :P
he likes stringy meat?
:-\
Personally...if a dog wonders on someone property & took a dump...what's the big deal?
I think way too many people are uptight about "what's theirs"
-
Well, yes, he was definitely a b*stard! It's just, I can picture this guy so perfectly... doesn't surprise me at all that someone would take a shot at a dog. Anyway, he only meant to scare the dog. Probably his vision isn't so hot anymore, and he missed. Or rather, didn't. :(
-
he likes stringy meat?
:-\
Personally...if a dog wonders on someone property & took a dump...what's the big deal?
I think way too many people are uptight about "what's theirs"
If a dog shit on my lawn I for one would be mega pissed off. Why the fuck should I have to clean up after some animal and it's disgusting owner?
Look at her picture... clearly into beastality.
-
If a dog shit on my lawn I for one would be mega pissed off. Why the f**k should I have to clean up after some animal and it's disgusting owner?
Look at her picture... clearly into beastality.
So what do you do if a rabbit wonders on your lawn & leaves some droppings?
better yet....
a bird flies down & drops a plop on your car?
-
I think the issue I am bringing up is; how hard would it have been for this guy to have pickedup the phone and called animal control or the owners?
Judging from some of the responses in this thread, its really hard for some of the more mentally challenged people.
-
Get ready to bring home dinner....
makes a lot of sense.
-
Suck it Trebek....
I love boobs.
-
So what do you do if a rabbit wonders on your lawn & leaves some droppings?
better yet....
a bird flies down & drops a plop on your car?
I bust out my air rifle. And bird shit isn't the same as dog shit.
-
I bust out my air rifle. And bird shit isn't the same as dog shit.
Shooting an animal for wondering on someone's property is a pretty lame excuse.
-
Yea but Wandering on someone's property is a whole other ball game. ;D
unless you're destroying personal property....what's the big deal?
-
If a dog walks into someone's property then it's fair game.
I can understand if the guy was out to kill the dog, but the dog wandered into his property.
Ok Sherlock, so what you are saying then in general if an uninvited guest ( dog, child, neighbor? )walks on to my property I should be able to shoot him at will?? After all the Mormans that knock on my door have much more malice than the neighbors poodle. What about neighborhood kids that cut through your lawn? Shoot them fuckers too huh?? You dick wads that think it was ok to kill this couples dogs are retarded. I can think if 100 other ways this could have been handled.
-
Maybe he didn't get any squirrels that day and the hunter's lust for the kill was still upon him.
-
Well, all in all...I find it pretty sad. I don't agree & think of pets as property....they are family members. I DON'T believe this guy should be sentenced as a murderer, but the penalties should be stiffer. Honestly, if it was me...I would have took some personal vengeance & he would have realized the decision he made was a poor choice.
-
this old fuck should be held a bit more accountable than what he was..give me a break...it was trespassing?! what the f--k was it doing? raiding your goddamn icebox you fucking redneck...
-
Someone should put a flaming bag of shit on his porch...
Wife: Don't put it out with your boot Ted.
Old man: DOn't tell me my business devil woman!
HE CALLED SHIT...POOP!
-
Not to make excuses for the old man, but I've had dogs and traveled with them. How stupid do you have to be to let your dogs off lead in a town you're unfamiliar with and allow them to wander into someone's yard? These people are as ignorant as he is. The fact is, this old man has probably never been anywhere in his life and has a certain attitude towards nature, and I guarantee you also has strong opinions where his rights are concerned. Vermonters, especially the old folk, can be extremely stubborn... anyone who's been, understands. So, imo, he's even slightly more excusable than they are.
-
And tell me o wise one, what is the precedent for this type of case?
From the pro-jo
The original felony charge of assault on a person over age 60 carried a maximum penalty of 5 years in prison, or not more than a $1,000 fine, or both. Before the plea agreement, Jamiel had also been charged with domestic disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor.
-
On the case involving the dog....
Assault is assault and I've taken the law into my own hands too many times to know you never win. A friend of mine had a disagreement with his landlord, a 65 year old lady. The idiot stupidly, as he knows, threw the phone at her hitting her in the face. The dude caught 7 years and had to do 3. It was the age or the woman. The prosecutors said if she wasn't an old lady it wouldn't of meant time.
-
Not to make excuses for the old man, but I've had dogs and traveled with them. How stupid do you have to be to let your dogs off lead in a town you're unfamiliar with and allow them to wander into someone's yard? These people are as ignorant as he is. The fact is, this old man has probably never been anywhere in his life and has a certain attitude towards nature, and I guarantee you also has strong opinions where his rights are concerned. Vermonters, especially the old folk, can be extremely stubborn... anyone who's been, understands. So, imo, he's even slightly more excusable than they are.
I've been to Vermont several times & you're right...the peeps are a little different there....but I have found most of them extremely friendly.
But of all places in the Continental US....you would think Vermont would be the one place that if your dog was to wonder off, that it wouldn't be shot because of trespassing. Some places like Georgia, Arkansas, Texas.....I can see....but Vermont? Hell, I would think that if someone in Vermont saw a dog wander on their property, that they would catch the dog & look for it's proper owner. It's just bad luck that the dog wandered on some idiots property.
-
That's besides the point. I relay don't know about a dog, but like I said assault someone under 60, for any reason isn't the same charge as assaulting someone over 60 that carries a 3 year mandatory. If you don't get it I can't explain it any clearer.
-
I have two lab's and love them to death. The guy shouldn't shot the dog but if the dog wasn't wandering around loose he wouldn't be dead today. The owners are as much to blame as the old coot who shot the dog.
-
Look how often do dogs wander off. I have a Yellow lab..A golden.. and a monster Bernese. My golden is crazy and runs off all the time. He's got an 8 foot pen with a locked gate and manages to climb it with ease. I have had him on a long lead even while penned and he slipped that. I got him halter collar deal and he was out of it on on our front porch in 15 minutes. He gets out. Its his thing. My lab never leaves the yard and my Berner pretty much is the yard. Dogs get out. That dog did not look vicious so that guy had no right to shoot it. He could have wacked it with a broom or better yet grab the dog and haul him back to the owner. I feel bad for these people.
-
Look how often do dogs wander off. I have a Yellow lab..A golden.. and a monster Bernese. My golden is crazy and runs off all the time. He's got an 8 foot pen with a locked gate and manages to climb it with ease. I have had him on a long lead even while penned and he slipped that. I got him halter collar deal and he was out of it on on our front porch in 15 minutes. He gets out. Its his thing. My lab never leaves the yard and my Berner pretty much is the yard. Dogs get out. That dog did not look vicious so that guy had no right to shoot it. He could have wacked it with a broom or better yet grab the dog and haul him back to the owner. I feel bad for these people.
Headhunter, I agree to an extent. Bottom line the owner is responsible to keep his dog from roaming. The guy was a dick to shoot it. I am not taking up for him.