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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: ribonucleic on February 07, 2007, 12:49:08 PM
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"An Army officer who investigated possible abuse at Guantanamo Bay after some guards purportedly bragged about beating detainees found no evidence they mistreated the prisoners — although he did not interview any of the alleged victims, the U.S. military said Wednesday."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070207/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/guantanamo_abuse_probe
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HA!
Remember the reporter who heard two CIA agents bragging about the ass whooping they delivered? Or the Agents who took out personal insurance because they were nervous about the car battery/genitals' effect on their retirement should they get sued.
Or perhaps the White House document saying it's A-okay to torture them.
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4631171106002398288&q=ROAD+TO+GUANTANAMO
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The documentary
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-599098805530677622&q=ROAD+TO+GUANTANAMO
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A UN rep from Belgium at Gitmo: "They get much better treatment here than common criminals back in my country."
In Bin Ladens handbook he instructs any captured terrorists to accuse westernors of torture and mistreatment to get sympathy from the media.
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A UN rep from Belgium at Gitmo: "They get much better treatment here than common criminals back in my country."
In Bin Ladens handbook he instructs any captured terrorists to accuse westernors of torture and mistreatment to get sympathy from the media.
1) How they'd get treated by other societies should influence ours? Um, no. Because they chop off two hands for stealing, it's okay for us to only lop off a few fingers? Are you defending torture?
2) The torture was admitted, no BRAGGED ABOUT, by US agents. Are you seriously doubting it happened?
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The society that was being compared was not a muslim, african, communist, or fascist one; it was Belgium.
According to one bitch, they bragged about it. All of the witnesses and suspects stories, when interviewed sperately by multiple investigators, had the same stories. you and I both know some bitches can be crazy and vengeful.
If beatings do happen from time to time, I am not too concerned. Prison guards don't beat up random prisoners, they beat up the worst and most violent. If they are beating up the worst of the terrorist scum who would love to collectively behead our country than I really don't care. In fact, for the worst cases I would like to see them being forced to watch korans getting burned and otherwise destroyed in front of them. Do you know what they would like to do to our loved ones simply for being infidels? They will get no sympathy from me
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1) Why is the witness a 'bitch'?
2) What reason do we have to believe she is lying?
3) Would you be concerned about the occasional beating if you were the one being interrogated? Or, if the man being beaten was later released and taught 1000 of his followers to beat US soldiers when captured?
Dude, the USA used to be the beacon for what was RIGHT with the world. Justifying an occasional beating isn't dignified and isn't honorable. The US used to take the moral high ground. What happened?
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(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e196/Intenseone/club_gitmo1.jpg)
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It is her word for 20+ others. I seriously doubt that any naval guards ever "bragged" about the beatings. Their is so much of a microscope on gitmo that officers are making sure taht prisoners do not get beaten or tortured by enlisted men. If there was any torture, it would be done by experts in that field, not some E-4 19 year old. Most likely she made it up.
America does still stand for waht is right in this world. Obvi, i dont want some detainee with less then certain terrorist ties messed with.
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America does still stand for waht is right in this world.
I have to wonder then - why has world perception of us changed so much in the last 5 to 10 years?
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I have to wonder then - why has world perception of us changed so much in the last 5 to 10 years?
Yeah, you gotta wonder...
(http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Abu-Ghraib-Prison-Photos11jun04p02.jpg)
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Any danger of you bleeding hearts posting some pics of dead civilians from terror attacks, you know, just to be 'balanced'?
240, RN, your soft touch for this scum speaks wonders.
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Any danger of you bleeding hearts posting some pics of dead civilians from terror attacks, you know, just to be 'balanced'?
240, RN, your soft touch for this scum speaks wonders.
I see you disrespect nurses. I'm calling the ACLU. I have their card right here.
If we do want to post terror pics, let the number be proportionate.
3k terror attacks in US.
3k dead US soldiers.
150k dead civilians in Iraq.
thanks!
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Any danger of you bleeding hearts posting some pics of dead civilians from terror attacks, you know, just to be 'balanced'?
Typical right-wing shell-game...
We're not responsible for what terrorists do. We're responsible for what American soldiers do.
You also try to sneak past the assumption that torturing prisoners does anything to combat terror - when in fact it increases the anti-American fanaticism that promotes terror.
Better luck next time. ::)
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that pic is from abu grab (sp?)? i dont thik so
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that soldier is trying to help that person most likely. they probably rescued him from some band of local thugs. if it happened in a us prison why is the sodlier wearing his helmet with night vision attached to it and also heavily armed?
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that pic is from abu grab (sp?)? i dont thik so
I found it in a Yahoo image search for "abu ghraib".
More than that I can't say.
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I found it in a Yahoo image search for "abu ghraib".
More than that I can't say.
Sigh, you are possibly the poorest researcher on this site, and that's saying a lot. Go post someone else's long and boring article from some Left-Wing rag, would you?
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And while you're at it, perhaps look up a definition of 'Right-Wing'. You embarass yourself by labelling others (like me) as such.
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Quality contribution there, BRUCE. ::)
Quality rebuttal. Found any other people’s work to clog this board up with yet? Or have you developed any ideas or opinions of your own?
Perhaps you are concerned you’ll be exposed as a deceiver, again.
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Go post someone else's long and boring article from some Left-Wing rag, would you?
You're the last person I'd have expected to insult a decorated war hero, BRUCE.
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You're the last person I'd have expected to insult a decorated war hero, BRUCE.
Nice attempted deception. Keep working on that, okay?
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Interesting you would make this comment in defence of a brave soldier, Ribonucleic, in light of this post:
Coming after that, your categorization of me as a "blowhard" was especially amusing. :)
And you're absolutely right on the central point: I want us to lose. Did you think I would deny it - or be embarrassed by the accusation? Far from it.
You're god-damned right I want us to lose.
And your participation on such matters is deemed so worthy here, considering this comment you made on dead Aussie soldier’s (Private Jake Kovco) family:
First Australian soldier killed in Iraq, eh?
Is his family upset that the Australian government sent him to his death in order to secure American access to Iraqi oil reserves?
You smug fool.
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Any danger of you bleeding hearts posting some pics of dead civilians from terror attacks, you know, just to be 'balanced'?
240, RN, your soft touch for this scum speaks wonders.
Tell me about. Sad that people take such pleasure in bad news about our country and our military.
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Tell me about. Sad that people take such pleasure in bad news about our country and our military.
Especially ones like RN - who makes a point of wishing harm upon our brave forces, as I've shown above.
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beach bum continues to try to tie me to positions that i already clarified, for purpose of smearing.
welcome to the ACLU, buddy!
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beach bum continues to try to tie me to positions that i already clarified, for purpose of smearing.
welcome to the ACLU, buddy!
What position, Rob?
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Torture has always been part and parcel of conducting war, not like it's anything new to be outraged about. All civilized, westernized countries engage in it. What's happening today is no different from any of the activities other countries employed to obtain information in the last 100 hundred years. This man below wrote a book about his work in the area of torture and execution in Algeria. Apparently he was an early advocate of water torture, and said it was the most inexpensive and effective torture he had ever employed. The eye thing is a little disconcerting, but he looks kind of grandfatherly, doesn't he?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1675992.stm
This is boring and academic, but details the why's and how's of torture and explains why the lower ranks were often encouraged to engage in it. Apparently, the SS also preferred to spare their higher ranking officers from the more atrocious aspects of torture. In any event, this sounds like a summary of the last four years.
http://www.mfo.ac.uk/uk/publications_uk/lecturereports_uk/branche_uk.htm
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What position, Rob?
*crickets*
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Beach,
My pet whale is sick. He's sneezing and is stuffed up.
Next week, when you tell the class you're a marine biologist, can you diagnose him? thanks bro!
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Interesting you would make this comment in defence of a brave soldier, Ribonucleic, in light of this post:
And your participation on such matters is deemed so worthy here, considering this comment you made on dead Aussie soldier’s (Private Jake Kovco) family:
You smug fool.
I wouldn't think it necessary to remind you that you're the one who's been beating their breast bloody about the noble sacrifices of the soldiers, etc. So I thought I would give you one who has called bullshit on the whole enterprise.
Now you're in a spot of difficulty, aren't you. At this point it's a given that you can't rebut anything he has to say. And you won't be able to slur your way out by impugning his patriotism. So you start whining about "long and boring", "left wing rag", how much I suck, etc. Not a very impressive showing for your side.
For future reference, you can proceed on the assumption that all my threads will be just like this one. I don't need your permission to post them and could care less whether you like it or not. So if you choose to visit them, you'll have no one but yourself to blame for any affront they cause you.
Have a nice day. :)
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I wouldn't think it necessary to remind you that you're the one who's been beating their breast bloody about the noble sacrifices of the soldiers, etc. So I thought I would give you one who has called bullshit on the whole enterprise.
Now you're in a spot of difficulty, aren't you. At this point it's a given that you can't rebut anything he has to say. And you won't be able to slur your way out by impugning his patriotism. So you start whining about "long and boring", "left wing rag", how much I suck, etc. Not a very impressive showing for your side.
For future reference, you can proceed on the assumption that all my threads will be just like this one. I don't need your permission to post them and could care less whether you like it or not. So if you choose to visit them, you'll have no one but yourself to blame for any affront they cause you.
Have a nice day. :)
This, I assume, means you already 'care' to a degree, no? Nice rant, by the way. I suppose the irony of you, who wants our soldiers dead, posting a testimony of one, and then accusing me of acting inappropriately towards them is lost on your feeble mind.
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This, I assume, means you already 'care' to a degree, no? Nice rant, by the way. I suppose the irony of you, who wants our soldiers dead, posting a testimony of one, and then accusing me of acting inappropriately towards them is lost on your feeble mind.
Nice slur. Keep repeating it often enough and.... well, you'll have repeated it a lot.
What I said is that I want our side to lose. My preferred method would be declare defeat and leave before anyone else is killed - on either side.
Have a nice day. :)
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Nice slur. Keep repeating it often enough and.... well, you'll have repeated it a lot.
What I said is that I want our side to lose. My preferred method would be declare defeat and leave before anyone else is killed - on either side.
Have a nice day. :)
Why slur, when I can just quote you:
And you're absolutely right on the central point: I want us to lose. Did you think I would deny it - or be embarrassed by the accusation? Far from it.
You're god-damned right I want us to lose.
And you then claim you don't want anyone to die in the process? Get real, you're a terrorist supporter. Don't have a nice day, week, month, year or life until you wake up.
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What I said is that I want our side to lose. My preferred method would be declare defeat and leave before anyone else is killed - on either side.
Have a nice day. :)
??? That's sick.
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??? That's sick.
Now this interests me...
What exactly do you find "sick" in that post, Bum? That no more Iraqis get killed? I can see how that might spoil your sport. But "sick" seems a little extreme.
No, I think that you find declaring defeat the "sick" part. "These colors never run!", etc. Well, I hate to tell you this - but defeat is exactly what we're looking at. Or are you going to try discrediting James Baker as a rabid left-winger?
Call it something else if it will salve your pride - "redeployment", "Vietnamization", whatever. I won't care - and neither will the Iraqis.
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Now this interests me...
What exactly do you find "sick" in that post, Bum? That no more Iraqis get killed? I can see how that might spoil your sport. But "sick" seems a little extreme.
No, I think that you find declaring defeat the "sick" part. "These colors never run!", etc. Well, I hate to tell you this - but defeat is exactly what we're looking at. Or are you going to try discrediting James Baker as a rabid left-winger?
Call it something else if it will salve your pride - "redeployment", "Vietnamization", whatever. I won't care - and neither will the Iraqis.
Don't you realise you forfeited your right to moralise on such matters after you posted this?
And you're absolutely right on the central point: I want us to lose. Did you think I would deny it - or be embarrassed by the accusation? Far from it.
You're god-damned right I want us to lose.
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These Islmo Fascists want to kill ALL INFIDELS! That means all of us. How can anyone defend them? They like to do shit like skin people alive guys. The Russians called in suicide airstrikes on top of themselves as a better way to check out than capture by those animals. Get something better to do with your bleeding heart energy than defend them. That mindset endangers us all.
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Don't you realise you forfeited your right to moralise on such matters after you posted this?
Poor BRUCE... still waiting to be acknowledged as some kind of authority.... :'(
I know it's tomorrow where you are... but you're going to have to wait a lot longer than that. :)
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Poor BRUCE... still waiting to be acknowledged as some kind of authority.... :'(
I know it's tomorrow where you are... but you're going to have to wait a lot longer than that. :)
Whereas you just hope to be acknowledged as a serious contributor here. I know it's yesterday there, but your opinions are as archaic as your typical Islamicists living conditions.
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The Russians called in suicide airstrikes on top of themselves as a better way to check out than capture by those animals.
wow, that's an interesting fact I did not know. Very interesting. Do you have more to share from the Ruskie/afghan conflict? Interesting.
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Now this interests me...
What exactly do you find "sick" in that post, Bum? That no more Iraqis get killed? I can see how that might spoil your sport. But "sick" seems a little extreme.
No, I think that you find declaring defeat the "sick" part. "These colors never run!", etc. Well, I hate to tell you this - but defeat is exactly what we're looking at. Or are you going to try discrediting James Baker as a rabid left-winger?
Call it something else if it will salve your pride - "redeployment", "Vietnamization", whatever. I won't care - and neither will the Iraqis.
lol. Obviously rhetorical questions, because you attempted to answer for me.
I consider this sick: "What I said is that I want our side to lose." Losing means we suffer additional and greater causalities. Very unpatriotic thing to wish for too. :-\
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your opinions are as archaic
Did Baker really say we're looking at defeat?
If so, does that mean baker's views on it are archaic as well?
I haven't read the Iraqi Report in whole. I know it was half repubs, half dems.
What was their consensus about our prospects there?
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Losing means we suffer additional and greater causalities.
Not necessarily true.
We could order every troop out tomorrow and chances are, every one of them could get out of the country without being killed. Certainly "greater casualties" wouldn't occur on our end.
'Losing' is defined as some as retreating before winning. Please define 'losing' as you see it, and tell us why your definition dwarfs others'.
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Do you have more to share from the Ruskie/afghan conflict?
Well, you see, the Russians were the Bad Guys then. [We didn't like Iran either, but the Russians were downright Pure Evil.] So Uncle Ronnie, probably during one of his Oval Office naps, came up with the idea of giving guns to the native resistance fighters. The only problem is that they decided to become the Taliban later. Ronnie didn't see that one coming. So then we had to send in the military to get those guns back.
Kind of ironic, isn't it!
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Well, you see, the Russians were the Bad Guys then. [We didn't like Iran either, but the Russians were downright Pure Evil.] So Uncle Ronnie, probably during one of his Oval Office naps, came up with the idea of giving guns to the native resistance fighters. The only problem is that they decided to become the Taliban later. Ronnie didn't see that one coming. So then we had to send in the military to get those guns back.
I see.
I think we can all agree that the governor of Arkansas at the time should be held accountable for this.
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Did Baker really say we're looking at defeat?
If so, does that mean baker's views on it are archaic as well?
I haven't read the Iraqi Report in whole. I know it was half repubs, half dems.
What was their consensus about our prospects there?
I think their exact words were "grave and deteriorating". Which I think of as Defeat swinging some bats in the on-deck circle...
And the Council on Foreign Relations had this cheery outlook to add...
"The crisis has now moved beyond the capacity of Washington to control on its own... The United States lacks the military resources and the domestic and international political support to master the situation... Even if the United States had the abundant ground forces and reconstruction teams necessary, it is not clear that the situation in Iraq today is retrievable.”
http://www.cfr.org/publication/12577/
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Not necessarily true.
We could order every troop out tomorrow and chances are, every one of them could get out of the country without being killed. Certainly "greater casualties" wouldn't occur on our end.
'Losing' is defined as some as retreating before winning. Please define 'losing' as you see it, and tell us why your definition dwarfs others'.
I've already defined what losing means. You just made up your definition. Regardless of when we withdraw, there will most likely not be some mass exodus with zero casualties. That is unrealistic. It will likely be gradual.
One of the things that happens when you "lose" a war is you take significant casualties. Ribo would love that. I wouldn't.
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I think we can all agree that the governor of Arkansas at the time should be held accountable for this.
No, Clinton is the assigned scapegoat for the failures of Bush Senior.
The failures of Reagan are assigned to Jimmy Carter.
Hope this helps.
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Tell me about. Sad that people take such pleasure in bad news about our country and our military.
Bro you say that all the time but you never seem to bring up the good yourself. Why is that? I have one guess, because war does not bring good news, like you and other "war-mongers" have said "this is not like a war our fathers fought that, where victory will be celebrated on a battle ship" this war only will either keep going, or we pull out lick our wounds.
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One of the things that happens when you "lose" a war is you take significant casualties. Ribo would love that. I wouldn't.
So win the war then. You've been fighting it longer than we spent in World War II. What's stopping you?
It's not lack of money - unless you think half a trillion dollars is insufficient.
I know you won't say it's our military - which we're repeatedly assured is the greatest that has ever been or could possibly ever be.
You could easily blame it on the frat boy who sits in the Oval Office - who fired every general who didn't agree with him. But that might make you feel bad about having voted for him twice...
So I guess you'll have to blame it on those bloodthirsty Arab savages - who refuse to appreciate all we've done for them.
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Bro you say that all the time but you never seem to bring up the good yourself. Why is that? I have one guess, because war does not bring good news, like you and other "war-mongers" have said "this is not like a war our fathers fought that, where victory will be celebrated on a battle ship" this war only will either keep going, or we pull out lick our wounds.
O Rly? Check out the post on "Koreans in Iraq," which was quickly polluted by the America/military haters. There is a lot of good going on in Iraq right now, but the media doesn't report it. To say there is no good news is factually inaccurate.
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So win the war then. You've been fighting it longer than we spent in World War II. What's stopping you?
It's not lack of money - unless you think half a trillion dollars is insufficient.
I know you won't say it's our military - which we're repeatedly assured is the greatest that has ever been or could possibly ever be.
You could easily blame it on the frat boy who sits in the Oval Office - who fired every general who didn't agree with him. But that might make you feel bad about having voted for him twice...
So I guess you'll have to blame it on those bloodthirsty Arab savages - who refuse to appreciate all we've done for them.
lol. More rhetorical questions (and answers). Do you often have these Q & A's with yourself? :)
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To say there is no good news is factually inaccurate.
I must reluctantly agree with Bum here. New schools are being opened, apparently.
Unfortunately, the children who haven't been killed already risk death now if they leave the house to attend them. :-\
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lol. More rhetorical questions (and answers). Do you often have these Q & A's with yourself? :)
You're the one who said you don't want to lose the war.
What do you suggest we do about it? [non-rhetorical question]
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I must reluctantly agree with Bum here. New schools are being opened, apparently.
Unfortunately, the children who haven't been killed already risk death now if they leave the house to attend them. :-\
Schools, hospitals, parks, training of police and military, etc., etc. . . . .
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training of police and military
militarymuscle would be the one to ask... but the impression I've gotten is that our trainers aren't thrilled with the quality of their trainees.
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You're the one who said you don't want to lose the war.
What do you suggest we do about it? [non-rhetorical question]
I don't know. Honestly. My main concern is for my friends in Iraq. I want them to come home. Soon. From a broader and less selfish perspective, I'd like to see us try and stabilize the region as best we can and get the heck out of dodge. I think it's about time the Iraqis took control. I know we will have a presence, but I'd like to see a RIF sooner rather than later.
What I do know is I don't want us to "lose."
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I don't know. Honestly. My main concern is for my friends in Iraq. I want them to come home. Soon. From a broader and less selfish perspective, I'd like to see us try and stabilize the region as best we can and get the heck out of dodge. I think it's about time the Iraqis took control. I know we will have a presence, but I'd like to see a RIF sooner rather than later.
Do you support American forces pulling out of the cities, and guarding the border and pipeline while the Iraqi police do their job?
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Do you support American forces pulling out of the cities, and guarding the border and pipeline while the Iraqi police do their job?
I don't know. I'd like to hear what the boots on the ground have to say about how prudent and/or workable that is.
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I don't know. I'd like to hear what the boots on the ground have to say about how prudent and/or workable that is.
that's a cool answer. it's sounding like the temporary solution which would please the white house oil gods, keep troops alive, let maliki have the freedom to do his job that he desires.
military spending would drop though. and military contractors do give big $ and many believe heavily influence decision making by bush/cheney.
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Ribo has No fucking clue about the military, Iraq, war or history. What he has is some far left BS appeasement attitude. Guys like him think they will somehow be absolved of all wrongdoing because they didn't support the war, in the eyes of the middle east. Sorry bud but ur head will roll just like anybody elses. They hate u, just like they hate me. Saying u hope we loose means ur a pussy and a traitor. Please leave my country quickly.
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Saying u hope we loose means ur a pussy and a traitor.
I knew that First Amendment had to be too good to be true. :(
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Yeah well i'm exercising my rights to call u out for hoping we loose. U said it in another thread...Bruce called u out as well. Loosing means alot of folks died for no reason. Not their folks our folks. i could care less about Iraqi deaths when it comes to our guys. Yeah its sucks to be them but it sucks alot worse that fellow soldiers died. These are ur countrymen. The Iraqi's aren't.
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Yeah well i'm exercising my rights to call u out for hoping we loose. U said it in another thread...Bruce called u out as well. Loosing means alot of folks died for no reason. Not their folks our folks. i could care less about Iraqi deaths when it comes to our guys. Yeah its sucks to be them but it sucks alot worse that fellow soldiers died. These are ur countrymen. The Iraqi's aren't.
what's your take on leaving the cities and letting the iraqi forces bear the brunt of the casualties?
You get the guard the borders/pipeline, you're well rested when you are called up to help the police out in the cities now and then. but send half the troops home, let the other half play cards and watch grids and kill anything that comes within 10 miles.
What's your take?
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Saying u hope we loose means ur a pussy and a traitor.
That's not true man...
I don't care what you call it... I want you guys out of Iraq... period.
I want you doing a good job protecting this country and you're not doing it in Iraq... I want you (personally) to have more support in Afghanistan and I want you to get Bin Laden so we can fry that fucker, and get you home.
I don't give a god damn about Iraq or anyone in it... no offense Iraqis.. but it's time for you to get your ass moving and handle your own damn business.
I don't know what the idea is behind "loosing"... There is no winners in War anyway.
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RiboN should move straight to Kabul. Lets all chip in & buy him a 1 way ticket. He can share his liberal ideas w/ the unshaven gang out in the hills. Good luck.
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TU..None of my remarks were in regard anything u say. Most of what u have posted I agree with or can live with.
240..Ask Jeff Miller. I think it could work. i think inbeds didn't work in Vietnam and i don't think these guys will fight if we're there to do it for them so...retreating out of the cities could work. It will definitly cut down our footprint and less of a target. I think that what we could then do is figure out where we would get our most bang for the buck..plan and execute missions against the mahdi army or whoever if we need to. Try and settle things down south near Basra. I think it could work but I'm not there.
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what's your take on leaving the cities and letting the iraqi forces bear the brunt of the casualties?
You get the guard the borders/pipeline, you're well rested when you are called up to help the police out in the cities now and then. but send half the troops home, let the other half play cards and watch grids and kill anything that comes within 10 miles.
What's your take?
240, i like this line of thinking. we need to salvage something