Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: BayGBM on February 28, 2007, 03:54:04 PM
-
Defending His Country, but Not Its 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy
Wednesday, February 28, 2007; C01
Once a Marine, always a Marine. That pretty much sums up the life of retired Sgt. Eric Alva, who was sworn into the Marine Corps at 19, stationed in Somalia and Japan and lost his right leg when he stepped on a land mine on March 21, 2003, the first day of Operation Iraqi Freedom.
As the war's first injured soldier, Alva was an instant celebrity. He was on "Oprah." President Bush awarded him the Purple Heart. Donald Rumsfeld visited. And strangers in Alva's native San Antonio still insist on paying for his dinner at Chili's. Last fall Alva, 36, contacted the Human Rights Campaign, the gay rights group, and asked to be involved in its lobbying effort. Today he'll stand alongside Rep. Martin Meehan (D-Mass.) when he introduces a bill to repeal the military's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy on gay, lesbian and bisexual military personnel.
-- Jose Antonio Vargas
Q. Why didn't you come out sooner?
A.Eventually my notoriety -- "the injured soldier" -- will wear off. And I can almost hear it now -- "Oh, yeah, he's that gay Marine." I'm okay with that. The truth is, something's wrong with this ban. I have to say something. I mean, you're asking men and women to lie about their orientation, to keep their personal lives private, so they can defend the rights and freedoms of others in this country, and be told, "Well, oh, yeah, if you ever decide to really meet someone of the same sex and you want the same rights, sorry, buddy, you don't have the right." That's one factor. The other factor is, we're losing probably thousands of men and women that are skilled at certain types of jobs, from air traffic controllers to linguists, because of this broken policy.
You come from a military family?
I come from a family of servicemen. My dad, Fidelis, is a Vietnam vet. My grandfather, also named Fidelis, was a World War II and Korean War veteran. I was named after them. My middle name is Fidelis. Fidelis means "always faithful."
What does sexual orientation -- gay, straight, bisexual -- have to do with being a soldier? A Marine?
First, thanks for recognizing that I am a Marine. Second, to answer your question, I have tons and tons of friends that were in the military at the time who knew I was gay because I confided in them. Everybody had the same reaction: "What's the big deal?" . . . The respect was still there. Your job is what you're doing at its best. Your personal life, your private life, is something you do after work. What's funny is, when I was based in San Diego, Calif., people would go to a gay club and everyone would have a haircut like mine. They had their dog tags on. But come Monday morning, nobody talked about it, nobody dealt with it, everybody was back to work.
So when you were applying to be a Marine in 1990, before "Don't ask, don't tell" was implemented, the application asked for your sexual orientation?
It did.
What did you put down?
I lied, I lied. The lying is what I hated most -- why I had to do it, why I had to keep on doing it, the toll it took on me.
You're wearing a wedding band. What do you tell people when they ask you about your wife?
That happens all the time. It just happened on my way here to Washington, waiting on the plank as I boarded a plane. This very nice woman next to me said she recognized me. She looked at my ring and asked about my wife. I told her I have a partner. His name is Darrell. She paused and said, "Good for you."
-
God took his leg because he was a homosexual!!!
This message has been inspired by Pat Robertson.
-
God took his leg because he was a homosexual!!!
This message has been inspired by Pat Robertson.
Ummm no, God is not vengeful and doesn't judge until you stand before him, which is why it isn't to late for you... but back on the subject, openly gay military members would affect morale. I know I shower with gays in the gym (not sure which ones but I'm sure some of them are) but they are not "out"
-
openly gay military members would affect morale.
Yeah, that's what they used to say about openly black soldiers.
Oh, right... I forgot. Black guys wouldn't be lusting in the showers for your beefy man-love the way the fags would.
Never mind. ::)
-
Ummm no, God is not vengeful and doesn't judge until you stand before him, which is why it isn't to late for you... but back on the subject, openly gay military members would affect morale. I know I shower with gays in the gym (not sure which ones but I'm sure some of them are) but they are not "out"
It's a joke ::) read the fine print.
-
Showering at the gym is tooooooooo gay for me. :-X
-
Showering at the gym is tooooooooo gay for me. :-X
How about a compromise solution to the shower issue?
The gays can shower in the women's barracks and the lesbians can shower in the men's barracks.
-
How about a compromise solution to the shower issue?
The gays can shower in the women's barracks and the lesbians can shower in the men's barracks.
YES!
-
Showering at the gym is tooooooooo gay for me. :-X
I don't particularly like it but living 30 miles from work I can't drive home after PT and shower. As far as the comparison to the black's by Ribo, it isn't nearly the same and I know gay men wouldn't be lusting over me or anything. I actually wouldn't have the problem, but there are alot of people that would. It is the same as the woman posing in playboy. That will make it hard on a unit to function. I do like the lesbo in the man's shower idea
-
Yeah, that's what they used to say about openly black soldiers.
Oh, right... I forgot. Black guys wouldn't be lusting in the showers for your beefy man-love the way the fags would.
Never mind. ::)
The homosexual/race analogy doesn't work. One is a lifestyle choice, the other is innate.
-
The homosexual/race analogy doesn't work. One is a lifestyle choice, the other is innate.
::)
OK. And what's your theory for why those thousands teenagers are choosing to be gay when it insures they they'll be continually harassed?
-
::)
OK. And what's your theory for why those thousands teenagers are choosing to be gay when it insures they they'll be continually harassed?
Because society makes it more and more acceptable, it is a choice.
-
::)
OK. And what's your theory for why those thousands teenagers are choosing to be gay when it insures they they'll be continually harassed?
::) I don't have a theory and don't need one. Where is your evidence that homosexuality is genetic? And how do you explain the people who leave the lifestyle?
-
I want to make one thing clear. On a personal level I have no problem serving along side gays/lesbians. I mean that honestly. But from a Unit standpoint I have seen it become a problem.
-
I want to make one thing clear. On a personal level I have no problem serving along side gays/lesbians. I mean that honestly. But from a Unit standpoint I have seen it become a problem.
I agree. I work with them and have actually hired them, but I see problems with integrating open homosexuals into the military. I don't think people who haven't served understand how different the military is from the civilian world.
One of the questions I had when Clinton tried to force this on the military when I served is what you do with the living and shower arrangements. We separate men and women in part because of privacy issues. What do you do with the homosexual male who plays the female role? Do they shower with the men or women? And what is the logical distinction between that kind of male homosexual and a female? (And I confess I don't know enough about the lifestyle to know whether there is always a male/female-type relationship with male homosexuals, where one is the "man" and the other is the "woman.").
-
I don't have a theory and don't need one.
I see. You're simply going to say "Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice" and let people be persuaded by the force of your charisma.
Thanks for clearing that up.
-
I see. You're simply going to say "Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice" and let people be persuaded by the force of your charisma.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Oh get a grip already. ::) There is obviously no proof that homosexuality is genetic. You can't cite any, because it doesn't exist. You're asking me to prove a negative, which is impossible.
What's your explanation for why people leave the lifestyle?
-
What's your explanation for why people leave the lifestyle?
(http://mason.gmu.edu/~ynajafi/mattskillers.jpg)
(http://www.nanettemartin.com/big.romaine.jpg)
Hope this helps.
-
(http://mason.gmu.edu/~ynajafi/mattskillers.jpg)
(http://www.nanettemartin.com/big.romaine.jpg)
Hope this helps.
No it doesn't and I didn't expect a serious answer from you. ::) You obviously cannot explain why a person like Anne Heche is a heterosexual, then a lesbian, then a heterosexual married to man and has a kid (but getting divorced). She is one of the many who choose to sleep with people of the same sex. You have no science that establishes homosexuality is genetic.
-
No it doesn't and I didn't expect a serious answer from you. ::) You obviously cannot explain why a person like Anne Heche is a heterosexual, then a lesbian, then a heterosexual married to man and has a kid (but getting divorced). She is one of the many who choose to sleep with people of the same sex. You have no science that establishes homosexuality is genetic.
You're supporting your claim that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice based on a mentally unstable Hollywood actress and you claim that I'm unserious?
LOL
-
You're supporting your claim that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice based on a mentally unstable Hollywood actress and you claim that I'm unserious?
LOL
Yeah. Okay. ::) There are organizations who help many people leave this lifestyle. I've met a couple of them. How do you explain this?
And yes what you tend to do when pressed for facts (like scientific proof that homosexuality is genetic) is respond with some dumb picture, joke (that usually isn't funny), or change the subject. If you're stating that homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice, that's fine. Many people agree with you. But don't try and pretend science has proved a genetic link. That's a load of crap.
-
There are organizations who help many people leave this lifestyle. I've met a couple of them. How do you explain this?
Christianist hypocrites promoting the internalization of social bigotry.
Or was that supposed to be a rhetorical question? :)
-
Christianist hypocrites promoting the internalization of social bigotry.
Or was that supposed to be a rhetorical question? :)
lol. So a Christian who is helping someone leave a lifestyle they consider sinful is being a hypocrite. Oh that makes a lot of sense. ::) They're actually practicing what they preach, which is the antithesis of hypocrisy. ::)
My question involved the person who leaves the homosexual lifestyle and how you explain a person doing this, if in fact homosexuality is genetic. My other point, which you continue to ignore, was regarding the lack of scientific support for the "homosexuality is genetic" argument.
I guess I'm at the point where I stop asking you questions, because you cannot give a serious answer.
-
So a Christian who is helping someone leave a lifestyle they consider sinful is being a hypocrite.
Attempting to justify their social hatred of homosexuals by claiming an Old Testament prohibition is the infallible word of God - while conveniently ignoring the neighboring Old Testament prohibitions against, say, eating pork ::) - is being a hypocrite.
-
Attempting to justify their social hatred of homosexuals by claiming an Old Testament prohibition is the infallible word of God - while conveniently ignoring the neighboring Old Testament prohibitions against, say, eating pork ::) - is being a hypocrite.
1. Opposing the lifestyle does not = "social hatred." Hate the sin, love the sinner. This is what the Bible teaches. Not nearly enough Christians practice this, but condemning the "sin" does not = hatred.
2. The prohibition of homosexuality is in the New Testament too.
Next! :)
-
The prohibition of homosexuality is in the New Testament too.
This would be news to me.
Chapter-and-verse, please - when you find the time.
-
This is a bad idea. Especially in the day and age of continually deployed units. I had a gay soldier recently. I think when he came out he thought we'd gay bash him or something. I told him i could care less if he was blowing half the base but he was going to be expected to do his job. It would have taken him longer to get out on the gay thing then to wait for his ETS. He backed out of the gay thing later after we told him he wasn't getting out quickly. Ur going to put 19 year old kids with weapons with gay soldiers.....this is a bad idea. For the time being don't ask don't tell is good enough.
-
This would be news to me.
Chapter-and-verse, please - when you find the time.
Will do. The battery on my e-Bible just died. :-\ I've posted this on the Religion board before. There are two. One is in Romans, forget where the other one is. Will post them when I get home tonight (after American Idol of course).
-
This is a bad idea. Especially in the day and age of continually deployed units. I had a gay soldier recently. I think when he came out he thought we'd gay bash him or something. I told him i could care less if he was blowing half the base but he was going to be expected to do his job. It would have taken him longer to get out on the gay thing then to wait for his ETS. He backed out of the gay thing later after we told him he wasn't getting out quickly. Ur going to put 19 year old kids with weapons with gay soldiers.....this is a bad idea. For the time being don't ask don't tell is good enough.
I agree, given the situation it's the best compromise. Human nature being what it is I wouldn't think many homosexual men in the military would want to be out of the closet anyway.
-
I think it works fine......look a flamboyant gay is gonna get killed.
-
This would be news to me.
Chapter-and-verse, please - when you find the time.
Don't have time to quote the text, but here are the chapters and verses:
Romans 1:24-31.
Jude 1:5-8.
Pretty clear condemnation of the lifestyle.
-
No it doesn't and I didn't expect a serious answer from you. ::) You obviously cannot explain why a person like Anne Heche is a heterosexual, then a lesbian, then a heterosexual married to man and has a kid (but getting divorced).
no big mystery there ...Gold digging opportunism. nuff said.
I think the don't ask don't tell policy is a half baked compromise, but it was the best solution possible at the time.
I think there can be potential problems such as soldiers falling in love on the battle field and it potentially interfering with their ability to function... but whether they are 'out' or 'in the closet' won't change that.
-
Yeah. Okay. ::) There are organizations who help many people leave this lifestyle. I've met a couple of them. How do you explain this?
And yes what you tend to do when pressed for facts (like scientific proof that homosexuality is genetic) is respond with some dumb picture, joke (that usually isn't funny), or change the subject. If you're stating that homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice, that's fine. Many people agree with you. But don't try and pretend science has proved a genetic link. That's a load of crap.
Actually science HAS shown a genetic link, however the information has largely been suppressed by the 'gay lobby' themselves. The fear that bringing that kind of information out could prove the basis for discrimination supported by science. It was felt that we were not socially evolved enough as a society to properly handle it. Can't say I disagree with them there. :-\
-
Actually science HAS shown a genetic link, however the information has largely been suppressed by the 'gay lobby' themselves. The fear that bringing that kind of information out could prove the basis for discrimination supported by science. It was felt that we were not socially evolved enough as a society to properly handle it. Can't say I disagree with them there. :-\
[chuckle] Do tell. It continues to amaze me how this website is the bastion of inside scoops. Some of you guys possess all this information that the rest of the world apparently doesn't know about.