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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: ribonucleic on March 19, 2007, 07:13:30 AM
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(http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/z?s=HAL&t=5y&q=l&l=on&z=m&c=%5EGSPC&a=v&p=s)
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Trillions of dollars made, hundreds of thousands men, women, children killed, Iraq more messed up.
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we own iraqi oil now.
every one of you (myself included) who bought into 'saddam was bad' and 'WMD' were owned.
it was all about stealing their oil, which we now manage exclusively, buying at prices we choose. (this is how you steal)
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we have better Humvees? ::)
tons of urban warfare combat experience?
$3 a gallon for gas?
more terrorists?
uncovered the incompetence of the Army at walter reed?
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we have better Humvees? ::)
tons of urban warfare combat experience?
$3 a gallon for gas?
more terrorists?
uncovered the incompetence of the Army at walter reed?
It doesn't have to cost that much for gasoline.
You can save 7 - 14% or more off your fuel costs, and reduce your emissions by 75% or more.
With FFi MPG caps (http://jme.mpgproduct.com/default.aspx?cid=50962) <--click me, you can:
- travel further on the same tank of gas,
- save money on your fuel costs,
- reduce smog causing emissions
- get better performance from your vehicle
- possibly make $$$ as well :)
You might as well use FFi MPG caps (http://jme.mpgproduct.com/default.aspx?cid=50962), <--click me...cause you're already paying for them without getting the benefit. You might as well throw a $1 or $2 out the window every couple miles, cause that's exactly what you're doing if you're not using the MPG caps (http://jme.mpgproduct.com/default.aspx?cid=50962).
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It doesn't have to cost that much for gasoline.
You can save 7 - 14% or more off your fuel costs, and reduce your emissions by 75% or more.
With FFi MPG caps (http://jme.mpgproduct.com/default.aspx?cid=50962) <--click me, you can:
- travel further on the same tank of gas,
- save money on your fuel costs,
- reduce smog causing emissions
- get better performance from your vehicle
- possibly make $$$ as well :)
You might as well use FFi MPG caps (http://jme.mpgproduct.com/default.aspx?cid=50962), <--click me...cause you're already paying for them without getting the benefit. You might as well throw a $1 or $2 out the window every couple miles, cause that's exactly what you're doing if you're not using the MPG caps (http://jme.mpgproduct.com/default.aspx?cid=50962).
Ok Ok.. I know I know... but do you have to post a link everytime someone mentions gas prices?
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Ok Ok.. I know I know... but do you have to post a link everytime someone mentions gas prices?
I wouldn't want anyone to miss it. :D
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I wouldn't want anyone to miss it. :D
That is an impossibility.
;)
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If we own iraqi oil why are we paying 2.75 a gallon!?!? :o
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(http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/z?s=HAL&t=5y&q=l&l=on&z=m&c=%5EGSPC&a=v&p=s)
The Iraqi people have gotten the chance to participate in free and fair elections. They now have a free press, and no longer live in fear of their government. Saddam Hussein and his murderous sons, Uday and Qusay, are dead; likewise Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the former leader of al Qaeda in Iraq. Water and power services have been progressively restored and expanded, medical care has been greatly improved, and convenient technological advances, such as the internet and cell phones, have been made more available to the general public
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And learning the best ways to bilk the US government!
More than three years and $15 billion into the U.S. effort to rebuild Iraqi forces, "ghost soldiers" still help to fill Iraq's army ranks, and no one knows how many trained police officers remain on the job, the Pentagon and U.S. government investigators report.
The Government Accountability Office says the most serious problems lie in the logistics - supplies, maintenance, transport - of Iraqi security forces. One example: The police have more than 1,000 U.S.-made trucks whose computerized systems are beyond the skills of the Iraqi mechanics who repair them.
Since soon after the 2003 U.S. invasion, the training of new military and police forces has been presented as vital to the U.S. military's handing over the counterinsurgency fight to the Iraqis.
In the current deployment of thousands of extra U.S. troops into Baghdad, the Americans are teaming up with Iraqi army units to try to control the Sunni Muslim insurgency and Sunni-Shiite sectarian violence.
Attacks have subsided somewhat in the operation's first weeks, but journalists embedded with U.S. troops report distrust and a mismatch in capabilities between the Americans and Iraqis. The true test would come if the U.S. Army pulled back and such operations were left to the Iraqi army and police alone.
A GAO assessment of the record so far is not encouraging.
"Even though the number of Iraqi forces has grown and more have taken the lead for security operations, violence in Iraq increased significantly through the end of 2006," Joseph A. Christoff, international-affairs chief for that congressional auditing office, testified last week to a U.S. House subcommittee.
In its latest quarterly Iraq report, the Pentagon said 328,700 Iraqis had been trained for the security forces, including 136,400 soldiers - more than double the numbers of two years ago. But, it added, the "actual number of present-for-duty soldiers is about one-half to two-thirds of the total due to scheduled leave, absence without leave, and attrition."
Many Iraqis go on authorized leaves for days to deliver their cash pay to their families. The Pentagon said Iraq's defense and interior ministers also were aware of "ghost" soldiers and policemen who existed only on paper - a fraudulent device by which units can receive additional per-capita resources, and corrupt officials can collect the pay of nonexistent recruits.
American commanders in the field attest to the impact of deserters, nonexistent soldiers, and other attrition on the strength of Iraqi army battalions.
"The battalions out here are about 50 percent," Col. William B. Crowe, a U.S. regimental commander in the embattled western province of Anbar, said in January.
On the police side, under the Interior Ministry, the Americans do not know "what percentage of the 180,000 police thought to be on the payroll are coalition-trained and -equipped," Christoff testified.
Police ranks have lost many trained men - killed, wounded, or simply departed out of fear for their lives or families - and local authorities have replaced them with men who have not gone through U.S.-overseen training. Even then, the U.S. Baghdad command estimates that less than 70 percent of Interior Ministry personnel are present for duty on an average day, according to the March 14 Pentagon report.
In addition, Shiite militiamen have taken root within the Iraqi police. "Sectarian and militia influences have divided the loyalties of Iraqi security forces," Christoff testified, citing U.S. intelligence.
Polish Maj. Gen. Pawel Lamla, a multinational-forces commander in southeastern Iraq, said in an interview Monday that police were failing to take action against local gunmen "because some of their [police] elements have connections with the militias."
The GAO agreed with the Pentagon assessment that logistics represented "the most significant shortcoming." Among other problems, it cited illiteracy among troops to be trained in supply, maintenance and related work; a lack of skilled trainers; and a shortage of spare parts for the army's motley motor pool - 21 types of utility vehicles, for example, from Chevrolets and Nissans to Czech Honkers.
The police were supplied with 1,179 American trucks they could not maintain "because its personnel were unable to work with the vehicles' computerized systems," GAO expert William M. Solis told a House subcommittee March 9.
Solis predicted that Iraqi reliance on U.S. logistics would extend into 2008.
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If we own iraqi oil why are we paying 2.75 a gallon!?!? :o
We don't own Iraqi oil.
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We don't own Iraqi oil.
GASP!!! You mean the oil revenue sharing deal that the iraqis are close to finalizing that would share revenues equally among the three is real? It will actually give them ownership of thier oil???? No way
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good..give us some cheap gas for cripes sake..
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good..give us some cheap gas for cripes sake..
That won't happen because they have us by the balls...lol. If Katrina hadn't have happened, gas would still be under $2. Once they jacked prices over $3, then they know that anything under that will look good.
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If we own iraqi oil why are we paying 2.75 a gallon!?!? :o
'cause that's what the market will bear, ...but wait, ...it's gonna get better ...NOT!
They'll keep cranking it up a notch, ...then bring it down a bit, but not to where it was before.
They'll have you to the point that when gas drops back to $3.50 /gallon, you'll be thankful for the "cheap gas"
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we own iraqi oil now.
every one of you (myself included) who bought into 'saddam was bad' and 'WMD' were owned.
it was all about stealing their oil, which we now manage exclusively, buying at prices we choose. (this is how you steal)
OIC.....prices reflect that at the pump. ::)
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The Iraqi people have gotten the chance to participate in free and fair elections. They now have a free press, and no longer live in fear of their government. Saddam Hussein and his murderous sons, Uday and Qusay, are dead; likewise Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the former leader of al Qaeda in Iraq. Water and power services have been progressively restored and expanded, medical care has been greatly improved, and convenient technological advances, such as the internet and cell phones, have been made more available to the general public
Hey Mr. Koolaid.............your delusional.
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Hey Mr. Koolaid.............your delusional.
lol, sure dude
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lol, sure dude
Great comeback.........jackass .
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Great comeback.........jackass .
I really hope you aren't in the military...you seem a tad wacko. Hopefully your enlistment is almost up
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I really hope you aren't in the military...you seem a tad wacko. Hopefully your enlistment is almost up
Actually, I'm a highly intelligent physician who LIVED ON THE FRONT LINES.
Even though your an azzhole......I would have helped you also.
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Actually, I'm a highly intelligent physician who LIVED ON THE FRONT LINES.
Even though your an azzhole......I would have helped you also.
it is really nice to see some military intelligence on the board :)
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it is really nice to see some military intelligence on the board :)
yep yep
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it is really nice to see some military intelligence on the board :)
Yeah, Enigma's MM69's opposite counterpart!
We won't get the glazed over version complete with an insult at the end.
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Yeah, Enigma's MM69's opposite counterpart!
We won't get the glazed over version complete with an insult at the end.
O Rly? So these don't count?
Posted by: The Enigma
Insert Quote
Quote from: militarymuscle69 on Today at 03:38:50 PM
I really hope you aren't in the military...you seem a tad wacko. Hopefully your enlistment is almost up
Actually, I'm a highly intelligent physician who LIVED ON THE FRONT LINES.
Even though your an azzhole......I would have helped you also.
Posted on: Today at 03:35:07 PMPosted by: The Enigma
Insert Quote
Quote from: militarymuscle69 on Today at 03:31:57 PM
lol, sure dude
Great comeback.........jackass .
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O Rly? So these don't count?
yeah, but he just does it different............i'd be willing to bet MM69 started in with insults right off the bat. That's MM69 pattern.
He's off base insulting you however. You are pretty patient with people.
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yeah, but he just does it different............i'd be willing to bet MM69 started in with insults right off the bat. That's MM69 pattern.
He's off base insulting you however. You are pretty patient with people.
Thanks. I've been called much worse. :D
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yeah, but he just does it different............i'd be willing to bet MM69 started in with insults right off the bat. That's MM69 pattern.
He's off base insulting you however. You are pretty patient with people.
I didn't come here to insult......just inform.
Sorry about the "slipups".
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I didn't come here to insult......just inform.
Sorry about the "slipups".
Bless you son. Your sins are given. Four Hail Mary's for you. :D
(I'm not Catholic.)
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Largest education bill in history. Chance of another terror attack at home down 10,000%. Stronger and better funded military than ever. Saddam is dead. Al queda drastically reduced. Booming economy. Thriving business.
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Largest education bill in history. Chance of another terror attack at home down 10,000%. Stronger and better funded military than ever. Saddam is dead. Al queda drastically reduced. Booming economy. Thriving business.
Please take your "uneducated ball" and go play somewhere else.
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Please take your "uneducated ball" and go play somewhere else.
haha.. obviously you don't know me.
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Largest education bill in history. Chance of another terror attack at home down 10,000%. Stronger and better funded military than ever. Saddam is dead. Al queda drastically reduced. Booming economy. Thriving business.
Obviously, smoking some great stuff. :o
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Chance of another terror attack at home down 10,000%.
Can you quantify that?
Or are you just making up numbers?
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Stronger and better funded military than ever.
We're borrowing $200 million, each day, to pay for this war.
This is a GOOD thing?
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Booming economy. Thriving business.
Why are our major trading partners all dropping the dollar?
Why is the dollar in an ever-weakening position against foreign currency?
In a "booming economy" we don't see these things.
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We're borrowing $200 million, each day, to pay for this war.
This is a GOOD thing?
Actually it's 2 billion per week.
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haha.. obviously you don't know me.
haha like your someone in the know throwing out the stupid crap. 10,000% down great number you must work for muscletech, Saddam is dead, no shit sherlock, Booming economy, only if your a contractor, thriving business yep you must work for halliburton ::)
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10,000% down great number you must work for muscletech,
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Brixton is unarmed in this battle of wits.
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haha like your someone in the know throwing out the stupid crap. 10,000% down great number you must work for muscletech, Saddam is dead, no shit sherlock, Booming economy, only if your a contractor, thriving business yep you must work for halliburton ::)
So what failing business are you in?
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haha like your someone in the know throwing out the stupid crap. 10,000% down great number you must work for muscletech, Saddam is dead, no shit sherlock, Booming economy, only if your a contractor, thriving business yep you must work for halliburton ::)
anyone with about 10k can commit a terrorist act that will halt air traffic again for a few days.
no skills required.
very little planning.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Brixton is unarmed in this battle of wits.
Yeah right... everytime I've cought you you ran away and never answer the questions.
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Yeah right... everytime I've cought you you ran away and never answer the questions.
Where did you get the 10,000% figure?
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We're borrowing $200 million, each day, to pay for this war.
This is a GOOD thing?
If we win... but I know you don't want that.
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Where did you get the 10,000% figure?
Like everything else............made up.
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Where did you get the 10,000% figure?
Obviously I was exaggerating.. but we are safer but a large margin.. not sure you can pin a real "figure" on that.
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we are either safer or the terrorist threat isn't what's it made up to be.
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we are either safer or the terrorist threat isn't what's it made up to be.
Learn more about terror buddy... saying that is like saying "black men don't commit more violent crime, the courts are just racist."
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So what failing business are you in?
??? I'm not in the business of profiting from war that is for sure if that is what you mean.
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Learn more about terror buddy... saying that is like saying "black men don't commit more violent crime, the courts are just racist."
well, all i know is there are plenty of ways a terrorist in this country could commit a terrorist act that would be sginificant, we get these videos of OBL saying something is going to happen all the time and nothings happened and places like airports are still very vulnerable to simple attacks that would ground air traffic again for at least a day of not cause 70% cancellation in flights.
So go figure.
we are either safer or the threat in the US is trumped up.
either way, it's not what we are led to believe it is.
p.s., i'm not saying there isn't threat. just the level isn't what is advertised.
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If we win... but I know you don't want that.
Hummm......."if we win".
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Obviously I was exaggerating..
Do you exaggerate often when debating here?
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If we own iraqi oil why are we paying 2.75 a gallon!?!? :o
Increased demand from India and China. Also the Saudis and now the US control huge amounts of oil and they can at will increase or decrease the supply. It explains why gas prices went down to $2.30 around election times.
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If we win... but I know you don't want that.
In my opinion, we were never "meant" to win in iraq. A state of sustained chaos is what's most profitable for the mil. ind. complex and firms like haliburton.
in oct 2008, as they announced, we'll declare a win and leave the cities. The pipeline will be complete.
there's the win. control of 50 to 75 TRIL worth of oil. Stall with fighting long enough to complete it.
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Yeah, Enigma's MM69's opposite counterpart!
We won't get the glazed over version complete with an insult at the end.
Wow I am so shocked that you guys would take the opinion your leaders have told you to take....sheep. I am sure enigma and I can produce the same amount of evidence on our behalfs and you will always take his first....
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]I am sure enigma and I can produce the same amount of evidence on our behalfs and you will always take his first....
well considering he's been actively posting for what? 2 days? and you've been posting here what? far more than that. It's not a very true statement until just yesterday.
Maybe it's how the message is delivered ;D
Wow I am so shocked that you guys would take the opinion your leaders have told you to take....sheep.
i'm curious, what do you mean by this?
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Wow I am so shocked that you guys would take the opinion your leaders have told you to take....sheep.
See the below graphic
I am sure enigma and I can produce the same amount of evidence on our behalfs and you will always take his first....
That's because you're so full of shit!
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well considering he's been actively posting for what? 2 days? and you've been posting here what? far more than that. It's not a very true statement until just yesterday.
Maybe it's how the message is delivered ;D
i'm curious, what do you mean by this?
I was refering that 240 has never asked me the same questions, not that it would matter. He refuses to listen to both sides unless a lib suggests it. I wasn't including you in the "you guys"
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See the below graphic
That's because you're so full of shit!
Haha that picture
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I was refering that 240 has never asked me the same questions, not that it would matter. He refuses to listen to both sides unless a lib suggests it. I wasn't including you in the "you guys"
I ask you questions all the time. You believe Bush has never told a lie and that waterboarding is A-okay. You scare me, dude. I love America and I know the war in Iraq will make us stronger in the longrun. But you... you don't have the self-honesty to admit you see Bush lies, and you don't have the moral compass to believe waterboarding is bad.
You're what's dangerous with America, dude. You scare me.
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I ask you questions all the time. You believe Bush has never told a lie and that waterboarding is A-okay. You scare me, dude. I love America and I know the war in Iraq will make us stronger in the longrun. But you... you don't have the self-honesty to admit you see Bush lies, and you don't have the moral compass to believe waterboarding is bad.
You're what's dangerous with America, dude. You scare me.
I haven't seen any proof that Bush INTENDED to mislead the public. And why is waterboarding so bad????
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And why is waterboarding so bad????
This is an American soldier speaking here.
I am speechless and disgusted. You are a disgrace to our nation.
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This is an American soldier speaking here.
I am speechless and disgusted. You are a disgrace to our nation.
LOL tell me what is so bad? It doesn't leave any permanent harm to anyone. It lasts a few seconds..wow..
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LOL tell me what is so bad? It doesn't leave any permanent harm to anyone. It lasts a few seconds..wow..
Let's see them waterboard you and see how well you like it.
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Let's see them waterboard you and see how well you like it.
LOL, I never said it should be a party game or anything. But torture???? I mean I don't think it is unreasonable to make someone panic a little as long as in the end they don't die or suffer long term physical problems. The first person that dies or suffers permanent brain damage or something along those lines I will be the first to demand it be stopped.
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LOL, I never said it should be a party game or anything. But torture???? I mean I don't think it is unreasonable to make someone panic a little as long as in the end they don't die or suffer long term physical problems. The first person that dies or suffers permanent brain damage or something along those lines I will be the first to demand it be stopped.
But you see... that's what torture is... Torture is the FEAR of death.
If someone does not fear death, you can not torture them.... It's not about actual harm.
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But you see... that's what torture is... Torture is the FEAR of death.
If someone does not fear death, you can not torture them.... It's not about actual harm.
I don't know man, I just don't see it as that bad. I fully expect worse if I ever get caught. Not that it means much but these detainees aren't POWs so they don't fall under Geneva convention rules...
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I don't know man, I just don't see it as that bad. I fully expect worse if I ever get caught. Not that it means much but these detainees aren't POWs so they don't fall under Geneva convention rules...
It means something to me... as a human being.
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mm69,
do most of your fellow soldiers feel the same way?
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mm69,
do most of your fellow soldiers feel the same way?
the ones I talk to yes...I mean the info we get from these terrorists will save lives for us. Just out of curiosity, how many people have we put through waterboarding?
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the ones I talk to yes...I mean the info we get from these terrorists will save lives for us. Just out of curiosity, how many people have we put through waterboarding?
That's true... it will save lives for us... If it's accurate. Many studies have shown that coerced confessions and information are not very reliable.
Again, how would you feel if you were the one it was being done to?
You're looking at it from a perspective of, we know we're not going to hurt them... but THEY don't know that.
It's like someone holding a knife to your throat and saying "Tell us or we'll kill you"... THEY know they won't do it, but you don't.
How is it different... please explain.
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Increased demand from India and China. Also the Saudis and now the US control huge amounts of oil and they can at will increase or decrease the supply. It explains why gas prices went down to $2.30 around election times.
If I may disagree...........the reason gas prices went down near the election, was Goldman Saks sold off 80% of their unleaded gasoline holdings. Since G.S. is the worlds largest trading Co., all other trading floors sold off as well. Net result.....gas 2.00 per gal. at election time.
One more thing.....the CEO of G.S. is Henry Paulson, current Tres. Secretary. Paulson was appointed in Aug 06 by Bush.........just in time for the Nov. mid-term elections.
Ultimately, it didn't help due to the Iraq war and the copious Bush Admin. scandels.
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That's true... it will save lives for us... If it's accurate. Many studies have shown that coerced confessions and information are not very reliable.
Again, how would you feel if you were the one it was being done to?
You're looking at it from a perspective of, we know we're not going to hurt them... but THEY don't know that.
It's like someone holding a knife to your throat and saying "Tell us or we'll kill you"... THEY know they won't do it, but you don't.
How is it different... please explain.
All I know is if I ever get caught and are a POW, I expect this and worse to happen. I personally would rather them kill me than to talk. If I talk I will be guilty of treason when I get back to the states and killed either way. So we scare some info out of them....how else are we supposed to get it?
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All I know is if I ever get caught and are a POW, I expect this and worse to happen. I personally would rather them kill me than to talk. If I talk I will be guilty of treason when I get back to the states and killed either way. So we scare some info out of them....how else are we supposed to get it?
I thought our intelligence groups were second to none...
They can't get us BETTER intel than what a scared shitless person will give us, considering they will say ANYTHING to spare themselves?
I don't buy it.
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I thought our intelligence groups were second to none...
They can't get us BETTER intel than what a scared shitless person will give us, considering they will say ANYTHING to spare themselves?
I don't buy it.
Your are probably right...we just enjoy "torturing" people, there is nothing that has ever come out of it. Actually don't tell but I heard they send the pics to Bush and he jacks off on them in the oval office....
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Your are probably right...we just enjoy "torturing" people, there is nothing that has ever come out of it. Actually don't tell but I heard they send the pics to Bush and he jacks off on them in the oval office....
That's probably true.
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Your are probably right...we just enjoy "torturing" people, there is nothing that has ever come out of it. Actually don't tell but I heard they send the pics to Bush and he jacks off on them in the oval office....
For the first time, ...I'm actually beginning to sense a ring of truth about your posts.
I wonder if he left a stain on the Presidential carpet... maybe we could have it DNA tested? ???
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I don't know man, I just don't see it as that bad. I fully expect worse if I ever get caught. Not that it means much but these detainees aren't POWs so they don't fall under Geneva convention rules...
Why is it that they are detainee's......and you or I would be considered POW's if captured and held against our will?
Just wondering............... ......
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Why is it that they are detainee's......and you or I would be considered POW's if captured and held against our will?
Just wondering............... ......
Because a POW has a specific definition under the Geneva Convention and terrorists don't fall within that definition.
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Because a POW has a specific definition under the Geneva Convention and terrorists don't fall within that definition.
You know how I feel about this one... it's just nitpicking.
It's not about the Geneva convention, it's about how you as a human being treat another.
I don't need the Geneva convention to convince me that torture is wrong... I know it either way.
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You know how I feel about this one... it's just nitpicking.
It's not about the Geneva convention, it's about how you as a human being treat another.
I don't need the Geneva convention to convince me that torture is wrong... I know it either way.
Tu he was asking about classifying a person as a "detainee" vs. "POW." I don't think that distinction has anything to do with torture. I see it as not providing all of the rights afforded to POWs.
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Tu he was asking about classifying a person as a "detainee" vs. "POW." I don't think that distinction has anything to do with torture. I see it as not providing all of the rights afforded to POWs.
I just think that as a country whose entire existance is defined by peoples rights... We are doing ourselves a great disservice by ignoring theirs simply because they do not fall under some guidelines set by the geneva convention.
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I just think that as a country whose entire existance is defined by peoples rights... We are doing ourselves a great disservice by ignoring theirs simply because they do not fall under some guidelines set by the geneva convention.
I understand where you're coming from. The problem I have is giving any concessions to terrorists. They are barely human IMO. Animals (many of them). I don't think we should treat them like animals (e.g., give them their basic due process), but I have zero sympathy for anyone who murders innocent men, women, and children.
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I understand where you're coming from. The problem I have is giving any concessions to terrorists. They are barely human IMO. Animals (many of them). I don't think we should treat them like animals (e.g., give them their basic due process), but I have zero sympathy for anyone who murders innocent men, women, and children.
I too can see your point, but I guess I just don't like to start down a slippery slope.
Today, terrorists... (Don't forget Jose Padilla)
Tomorrow... every person who falls under some guideline... Once you start down the dark path, it will be almost impossible to find the light again.
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I too can see your point, but I guess I just don't like to start down a slippery slope.
Today, terrorists... (Don't forget Jose Padilla)
Tomorrow... every person who falls under some guideline... Once you start down the dark path, it will be almost impossible to find the light again.
Legit concern. I don't support holding anyone indefinitely without charges.
I have read up on Padilla. He is a convict and, if nothing else, an idiot for hanging around with Al Qaeda. He is also going to trial for, among other things, conspiracy to murder, kidnap, and maim.
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Legit concern. I don't support holding anyone indefinitely without charges.
I have read up on Padilla. He is a convict and, if nothing else, an idiot for hanging around with Al Qaeda. He is also going to trial for, among other things, conspiracy to murder, kidnap, and maim.
True, he is going to trial, but when... The only person I've seen have to deal with all of this kind of stuff and not go to trial in that amount of time is R-Kelly (How does he do it?)
I just think this guy is an American citizen and as such, should be treated like any one of us... like I said... when does it end.
We've started down a bad road... If we don't turn off now, we will never find a way out.
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True, he is going to trial, but when... The only person I've seen have to deal with all of this kind of stuff and not go to trial in that amount of time is R-Kelly (How does he do it?)
I just think this guy is an American citizen and as such, should be treated like any one of us... like I said... when does it end.
We've started down a bad road... If we don't turn off now, we will never find a way out.
R. Kelly. The same one who videotaped himself having sex with a minor? Speaking of idiots . . . .
Re Padilla: "The trial is scheduled to begin April 16." http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/mar2007/padi-m02.shtml
His insanity defense didn't fly.
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R. Kelly. The same one who videotaped himself having sex with a minor? Speaking of idiots . . . .
Re Padilla: "The trial is scheduled to begin April 16." http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/mar2007/padi-m02.shtml
His insanity defense didn't fly.
Yeah, that R. Kelly... why hasn't he gone to trial yet? I just don't get that one.
I'll be interested in seeing how this trial turns out... It's certainly taken long enough to get one started.
I never would have thought the insanity defense could amount to much so I'm not shocked.
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Yeah, that R. Kelly... why hasn't he gone to trial yet? I just don't get that one.
I'll be interested in seeing how this trial turns out... It's certainly taken long enough to get one started.
I never would have thought the insanity defense could amount to much so I'm not shocked.
I haven't followed R. Kelly's case.
I'll be following Padilla's trial. They better get a conviction . . . or bring their checkbook IMO. I don't know why they held him for so long without charges, and maybe there is a "national security" reason, but I don't like it.
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I don't know why they held him for so long without charges, and maybe there is a "national security" reason, but I don't like it.
I'm with you there. Very hard to see what great time-sensitive intel he'd have of value, some 60+ months later.
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I haven't followed R. Kelly's case.
I'll be following Padilla's trial. They better get a conviction . . . or bring their checkbook IMO. I don't know why they held him for so long without charges, and maybe there is a "national security" reason, but I don't like it.
I agree... no conviction will mean huge payday for someone named Padilla.
I don't like it either... There's just something wrong about doing that to anyone, and since it happens to be a US citizen, it's even more disgusting.
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Why is it that they are detainee's......and you or I would be considered POW's if captured and held against our will?
Just wondering............... ......
That isn't true though, everyone forgets that during the war in bosnia, when those slodiers crashed their Hummer, they weren't considered POWs and the Clinton administration was begging to get their classification changed to POW. It never happened and they were released before it really mattered. The capturing country is the one that designates a prisoners status. I know I asked this yesterday, there never was a declaration of war in Iraq correct? If so, the POW classification is irrelevant.
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there never was a declaration of war in Iraq correct? If so, the POW classification is irrelevant.
Correct.
Iraq = Authorized use of force.
Which is mindboggling. We'll be there 5+ years. And while "War in Iraq" was common vernacular, our kids will see it like we saw vietnam, a "conflict".
WIKI:
Authorized use of force is relatively common among democratic societies. The United States, for instance, has been directly involved in military activities in every decade of the latter half of the twentieth century yet has not declared war formally since World War II. For instance, in the case of the Vietnam war and the Iraq war, Congress authorized the use of force rather than putting forth a declaration of war. As noted above, there is a dispute over the constitutionality of this legislative procedure.
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That isn't true though, everyone forgets that during the war in bosnia, when those slodiers crashed their Hummer, they weren't considered POWs and the Clinton administration was begging to get their classification changed to POW. It never happened and they were released before it really mattered. The capturing country is the one that designates a prisoners status. I know I asked this yesterday, there never was a declaration of war in Iraq correct? If so, the POW classification is irrelevant.
Again, I don't understand how the classification matters...
It's not about the classification, it's not about the Geneva convention, it's about how we as a country who promote human rights and freedom, yet have no issue removing those freedoms and rights when it serves our purpose.
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Again, I don't understand how the classification matters...
It's not about the classification, it's not about the Geneva convention, it's about how we as a country who promote human rights and freedom, yet have no issue removing those freedoms and rights when it serves our purpose.
I know Tu, but the world goes by the geneva convention....even in that, there are things that can be done to an Airman, that can't be done to an NCO and even more that can't be done to an Officer. If you don't want "freedoms and rights removed" we should open the doors to all the nations prisons today and let everyone walk out free?
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I know Tu, but the world goes by the geneva convention....even in that, there are things that can be done to an Airman, that can't be done to an NCO and even more that can't be done to an Officer. If you don't want "freedoms and rights removed" we should open the doors to all the nations prisons today and let everyone walk out free?
Look everyone, a spin statement!
Don't be silly mm, Of course not... However, when I say that "freedoms and rights shouldn't be removed" I mean without what we would consider due process... If a person is found guilty of a crime of course we should be allowed to imprison them for society's sake, but the people (detainees) have not been found guilty of a crime how have they?
They also are the closest thing we have to a POW... you can spin it however you want, but if we are fighting a "War on Terror" as the President says, then these guys are POWs... that's pretty cut and dried to me.
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Look everyone, a spin statement!
Don't be silly mm, Of course not... However, when I say that "freedoms and rights shouldn't be removed" I mean without what we would consider due process... If a person is found guilty of a crime of course we should be allowed to imprison them for society's sake, but the people (detainees) have not been found guilty of a crime how have they?
They also are the closest thing we have to a POW... you can spin it however you want, but if we are fighting a "War on Terror" as the President says, then these guys are POWs... that's pretty cut and dried to me.
well you don't understand POW classifications, but oh well. The trials are getting underway so we will see what happens.
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well you don't understand POW classifications, but oh well. The trials are getting underway so we will see what happens.
I understand the classifications very well thank you, BUT we have modified our entire military idea to focus on a war on terror... we have modified the idea of war... We have progressed... Our military has progressed... Our classifications should progress too.
It seems that progress is only applicable when it suits your needs MM69.
Remember... "WAR" on Terror... I didn't come up with that title.
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I understand the classifications very well thank you, BUT we have modified our entire military idea to focus on a war on terror... we have modified the idea of war... We have progressed... Our military has progressed... Our classifications should progress too.
It seems that progress is only applicable when it suits your needs MM69.
Remember... "WAR" on Terror... I didn't come up with that title.
You understand them very well? Maybe you would like ot tell the class some things that an NCO can be made to do as a POW that an officer can't...or maybe explain the different levels of punishment that can be administered by rank?
They aren't POWs dude, just like in Bosnia. How many people have we "tortured" anyway
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Tu he was asking about classifying a person as a "detainee" vs. "POW." I don't think that distinction has anything to do with torture. I see it as not providing all of the rights afforded to POWs.
Who defines these "tortured" definitions?
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Who defines these "tortured" definitions?
That is what i have been asking. Do you consider waterboarding inhumane?
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Who defines these "tortured" definitions?
Whomever drafted the Geneva Convention.
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Whomever drafted the Geneva Convention.
We tossed out the GC........remember?
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Have any of u guys talked to a interrogator..they have extremely strict rules and the guys that do it are highly trained. Their job and how they are used is very different then what most military folks are used to. Kids with very little time in service are used to conduct interviews and interrogations. If they are good they become the go to guys when dealing with prisoners..it doesn't matter about rank as about ability. They get physc tested all the time in theater. It was very interesting talking to some of those guys. They were all extremely bright. Water boarding is exceptable if it helps paint the intel picture..talk to any of these guys..physical violence does not always work..chemicals , sensory dreprivation etc can work much more effectively. But some guys need to be smacked around a little bit. We are not talking about nice folks anyway..these guys are all pretty big time terrorists.
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That is what i have been asking. Do you consider waterboarding inhumane?
Yes, and electrocution.
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As a doc I imagine u would. I understand ur point of view and I think u have seen the worst part of this war. From my point of view and from my experiences I think ur OR may be busier if we don't do all we can to ensure we get the right Intel.
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You understand them very well? Maybe you would like ot tell the class some things that an NCO can be made to do as a POW that an officer can't...or maybe explain the different levels of punishment that can be administered by rank?
They aren't POWs dude, just like in Bosnia. How many people have we "tortured" anyway
All you may ever want to know.
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htmYes, and electrocution.
I too believe it's inhumane... We're supposed to be better than these guys, but we act just like them.
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All you may ever want to know.
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm
I too believe it's inhumane... We're supposed to be better than these guys, but we act just like them.
"act just like them"....are you serious? we parade blindfolded men around on TV, behead prisoners, allow them no contact with the outside world...no religion? try again there puss
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All you may ever want to know.
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm
I too believe it's inhumane... We're supposed to be better than these guys, but we act just like them.
LOL, I can post links on how to perform open heart surgery but that doesn't mean " I greatly understand" how to do it....so you really don't know shit about it.
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"act just like them"....are you serious? we parade blindfolded men around on TV, behead prisoners, allow them no contact with the outside world...no religion? try again there puss
Did you see the hanging of Saddam? We have had public hangins in THIS country and it's still a legal form of death in some states.
You think I'm a puss because I believe in human rights? You're a funny guy... You talk about what the military is supposed to be doing... Saving lives, protecting freedom, enhancing human rights, but when I say we're not really doing it, I'm a puss... You're delusioned.
You're in the Middle East right? Go ahead and feel free to stay there ALL you want... I'm doing just fine stateside without you.
Can we get back the decent people in the Military who understand the difference between barbarism and civility and let the rest stay over there?
No, I guess not, because that's not really right either... I will welcome you back MM, but if you call me a puss to my face, I would show you how much of a puss I am.
LOL, I can post links on how to perform open heart surgery but that doesn't mean " I greatly understand" how to do it....so you really don't know shit about it.
Well, considering one requires mental understanding and the other requires that plus practice... Your comparison doesn't really work. What do you do again? Are you a looking after the welfare and treatment of prisoners? Are you part of the UN? What do you do MM?
I'm sure that since I'm quite able to comprehend what I read, that I understand it just as well as you do.
Good job getting personal tough guy.
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Did you see the hanging of Saddam? We have had public hangins in THIS country and it's still a legal form of death in some states.
You think I'm a puss because I believe in human rights? You're a funny guy... You talk about what the military is supposed to be doing... Saving lives, protecting freedom, enhancing human rights, but when I say we're not really doing it, I'm a puss... You're delusioned.
You're in the Middle East right? Go ahead and feel free to stay there ALL you want... I'm doing just fine stateside without you.
Can we get back the decent people in the Military who understand the difference between barbarism and civility and let the rest stay over there?
No, I guess not, because that's not really right either... I will welcome you back MM, but if you call me a puss to my face, I would show you how much of a puss I am.
Well, considering one requires mental understanding and the other requires that plus practice... Your comparison doesn't really work. What do you do again? Are you a looking after the welfare and treatment of prisoners? Are you part of the UN? What do you do MM?
I'm sure that since I'm quite able to comprehend what I read, that I understand it just as well as you do.
Good job getting personal tough guy.
umm, smart guy, who led the trial against saddam and then executed the hanging.....good luck trying to find an American that had hands on it
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We tossed out the GC........remember?
Circular argument. We didn't toss out the Geneva Convention. It doesn't apply to terrorists. At least that's my interpretation.
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umm, smart guy, who led the trial against saddam and then executed the hanging.....good luck trying to find an American that had hands on it
Exceprt taken from Nir Rosen
Saddam Hussein became the first modern Arab dictator to die violently since Egypt's Anwar Sadat in 1981. Saddam's hanging at the hands of chubby Iraqi men wearing ski masks is likely to be perceived by many as an American execution and as part of a trend of American missteps contributing to sectarian tensions in Iraq and the region. The trial of Saddam was viewed by detractors as an event stage-managed by the Americans. According to Human Rights Watch, the Iraqi judges and lawyers involved in prosecuting Saddam were ill prepared and relied on their American advisers. American minders shut off the microphones and ordered the translators to halt whenever they disapproved of what was being said by the defendants.
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umm, smart guy, who led the trial against saddam and then executed the hanging.....good luck trying to find an American that had hands on it
Well, let's see... The US invaded a sovereign nation, and handed the leader of that country to a hostile force... who in turn, hung him for crimes.
Since the US was the catalyst for the entire process... Every person involved in the "War" was involved in this trial.
And since we started it... That would mean we led the trial.
Leave it to the "smart guy" to explain it... No problem.
;)
Exceprt taken from Nir Rosen
Saddam Hussein became the first modern Arab dictator to die violently since Egypt's Anwar Sadat in 1981. Saddam's hanging at the hands of chubby Iraqi men wearing ski masks is likely to be perceived by many as an American execution and as part of a trend of American missteps contributing to sectarian tensions in Iraq and the region. The trial of Saddam was viewed by detractors as an event stage-managed by the Americans. According to Human Rights Watch, the Iraqi judges and lawyers involved in prosecuting Saddam were ill prepared and relied on their American advisers. American minders shut off the microphones and ordered the translators to halt whenever they disapproved of what was being said by the defendants.
Oh, and what he said too.
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According to Human Rights Watch . . .
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Wow he cited a source to go along with his commentary. Nir Rosen is a public intellectual and leading writer on current international affairs, he's lived in Afghanistan, Iraq and somolia for years.
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Well, let's see... The US invaded a sovereign nation, and handed the leader of that country to a hostile force... who in turn, hung him for crimes.
Since the US was the catalyst for the entire process... Every person involved in the "War" was involved in this trial.
And since we started it... That would mean we led the trial.
Leave it to the "smart guy" to explain it... No problem.
;)
Oh, and what he said too.
LMAO!! this is to easy....if you read the whole paragraph and not just the chosen highlights, you will see that it says "The trial of Saddam was viewed by detractors as an event stage-managed by the Americans. According to Human Rights Watch, the Iraqi judges and lawyers involved in prosecuting Saddam were ill prepared and relied on their American advisers"
So it was a personal opinion that the trial was American run..priceless......and your saddam analogy doesn't compare to the handling of detainees
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So it was a personal opinion that the trial was American run..priceless......and your saddam analogy doesn't compare to the handling of detainees
Look up any Iraqi article on Saddam's trial, it is the same opinion expressed. Are you saying that Iraqis opinions regarding their own country are not worth merit?
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Wow he cited a source to go along with his commentary. Nir Rosen is a public intellectual and leading writer on current international affairs, he's lived in Afghanistan, Iraq and somolia for years.
O.K. That means he shares the opinion of "Human Rights Watch." So what.
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Look up any Iraqi article on Saddam's trial, it is the same opinion expressed. Are you saying that Iraqis opinions regarding their own country are not worth merit?
I bet if I look on O'reilly, limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter..you think they will say it was American run? Of course you would trust Iraqi's more. Oh I guess I forgot that I saw an American sitting behind the judge the whole time whispering in his ear before he spoke. You are probably right though, Iraqis are really mad at us for hanging Saddam
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LMAO!! this is to easy....if you read the whole paragraph and not just the chosen highlights, you will see that it says "The trial of Saddam was viewed by detractors as an event stage-managed by the Americans. According to Human Rights Watch, the Iraqi judges and lawyers involved in prosecuting Saddam were ill prepared and relied on their American advisers"
So it was a personal opinion that the trial was American run..priceless......and your saddam analogy doesn't compare to the handling of detainees
You didn't even bother responding to MY point... the point about us ousting a foreign leader and handing him over to a hostile force.
Were we, or were we not responsible for that?
If so, then yes, we were just as culpable for his trial and hanging as anyone.
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You didn't even bother responding to MY point... the point about us ousting a foreign leader and handing him over to a hostile force.
Were we, or were we not responsible for that?
If so, then yes, we were just as culpable for his trial and hanging as anyone.
How does that compare to the treatment of detainees? This started because you said we act just like them in our treatment of detainees.
Don't ever take that pic of your profile though, me and they guys here get a good laugh at ti evertime you respond!
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Who defines these "tortured" definitions?
The Military Commissions Act of 2006 governs this stuff.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/MC_Act-2006.html
The law is a disgrace and affront to our constitution. It may still be struck for vagueness.
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How does that compare to the treatment of detainees? This started because you said we act just like them in our treatment of detainees.
Don't ever take that pic of your profile though, me and they guys here get a good laugh at ti evertime you respond!
Don't worry I won't... good job avoiding the points though.
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Don't worry I won't... good job avoiding the points though.
I didn't avoid anything, we might have given Saddam to the Iraq government but didn't have a hand in deciding punishment
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I didn't avoid anything, we might have given Saddam to the Iraq government but didn't have a hand in deciding punishment
Giving him to their government is deciding punishment... Everyone knew what would happen in that court... It was a circus and you know that.
You may not want to admit it, but his death sentence was as good as signed once he was caught.
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I bet if I look on O'reilly, limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter..you think they will say it was American run?
I never heard O'Reilly's viewpoint on the subject but I think everyone knew that it wasa mascarade, planned out puppet show. Over time the answers will come out, not right now not in the next 2 years but once history is written it will show.
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Giving him to their government is deciding punishment... Everyone knew what would happen in that court... It was a circus and you know that.
You may not want to admit it, but his death sentence was as good as signed once he was caught.
should we feel bad?
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should we feel bad?
We should feel bad for invading the country in the first place... So yes.
Do I feel bad that he was hung, not really, but I don't care enough about that sandbox to be there in the first place... Why are you there again?
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We should feel bad for invading the country in the first place... So yes.
Do I feel bad that he was hung, not really, but I don't care enough about that sandbox to be there in the first place... Why are you there again?
wow....you suprise me with a question my 7 year old could answer.....but in a basic anwser, to have a democratic ally in the middle east to help keep Iran and Syria in check
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wow....you suprise me with a question my 7 year old could answer.....but in a basic anwser, to have a democratic ally in the middle east to help keep Iran and Syria in check
Wow... you're so funny. So you're telling me that THAT reason is what you were TOLD you were there for?
Funny, everyone else seems to know that's not the reason you were told you were there for...
Apparently everyone knows this but you.
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Wow... you're so funny. So you're telling me that THAT reason is what you were TOLD you were there for?
Funny, everyone else seems to know that's not the reason you were told you were there for...
Apparently everyone knows this but you.
oh right....CTers think it is only for oil....my bad
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oh right....CTers think it is only for oil....my bad
I'm not talking about what CTers think... I'm asking a real question... People were deployed to Iraq... They were told why.
What was the reason they were told they were being deployed? That's a very straightforward question.
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I'm not talking about what CTers think... I'm asking a real question... People were deployed to Iraq... They were told why.
What was the reason they were told they were being deployed? That's a very straightforward question.
in the beginning it was to overthrow Iraq, we are there now for 2 reasons. Bring civility to Iraq and establish a democratic ally, and fight the insurgency to bring down Al-Queda
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in the beginning it was to overthrow Iraq, we are there now for 2 reasons. Bring civility to Iraq and establish a democratic ally, and fight the insurgency to bring down Al-Queda
LOL @ "overthrow"
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LOL @ "overthrow"
well I meant Saddam...and we did
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well I meant Saddam...and we did
I guess I see the negative connotations that come with that word.
And beach Bum was dead wrong yesterday when he said we entered a place with 'no rules' and created rules and order. It's quite the opposite.
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I guess I see the negative connotations that come with that word.
And beach Bum was dead wrong yesterday when he said we entered a place with 'no rules' and created rules and order. It's quite the opposite.
You have to forgive me, I forget to get into my America is the bad guy mindset before I come into this board
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I guess I see the negative connotations that come with that word.
And beach Bum was dead wrong yesterday when he said we entered a place with 'no rules' and created rules and order. It's quite the opposite.
You mean there wasn't a dictator in Iraq who did whatever the heck he wanted, including torturing and murdering his own people and stealing the country's resources? News to me. ::)
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You mean there wasn't a dictator in Iraq who did whatever the heck he wanted, including torturing and murdering his own people and stealing the country's resources? News to me. ::)
Were there enforced laws under saddam? Was there chaos?
(The conversation was about the nation for 23 mil. You're making it about one man who did what he wanted - we have those here too ;) )
Iraq, under saddam, was a less violent nation. There were rules and they were enforced.
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Were there enforced laws under saddam? Was there chaos?
(The conversation was about the nation for 23 mil. You're making it about one man who did what he wanted - we have those here too ;) )
Iraq, under saddam, was a less violent nation. There were rules and they were enforced.
You'll have to read up on how dictatorships work. I'm not going to do your homework for you. But to give you a head start: dictators can do whatever they want. The rules are whatever the dictator says they are. When a dictator is overthrown, the dictators "rules" go down with him.
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well I meant Saddam...and we did
So the reason was not because Saddam was working on a nuclear device?
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You'll have to read up on how dictatorships work. I'm not going to do your homework for you. But to give you a head start: dictators can do whatever they want. The rules are whatever the dictator says they are. When a dictator is overthrown, the dictators "rules" go down with him.
so this is no longer a debate about the nation of Iraq? Suddenly it's about what one man could get away with?
LOL.. look in your own backyard. We've started 2 elective wars and we're starting #3 next week. We do whatever the hell bush wants, if ya havent' noticed.
Still, I admire your effort to redirect teh convo. And I see why you initially ignored it when I called you on it. You said there were no rules in iraq before we invaded, and I say that's not true.
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So the reason was not because Saddam was working on a nuclear device?
what are you talking about? we overthrew Saddam for many reasons
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what are you talking about? we overthrew Saddam for many reasons
The reasons changed as time progressed.
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I didn't avoid anything, we might have given Saddam to the Iraq government but didn't have a hand in deciding punishment
Your kidding right? We (USA) appointed the Iraqi PM......who hung Saddam. The same PM who tried to murder Saddam in 1982.....then FLED to Syria until "the coast was clear".
Please be honest and truthful.
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Your kidding right? We (USA) appointed the Iraqi PM......who hung Saddam. The same PM who tried to murder Saddam in 1982.....then FLED to Syria until "the coast was clear".
Please be honest and truthful.
Yep. Giftwrapped execution. Sure he was an evil dude worthy of the gallows. But it's a dangerous precedent for the US to "decide" regime change is in order, and facilitate the overthrow and allow the execution.
Suppose the Chinese and Russians got together and decided the U.S. was in need of regime change, and they started bombing our cities. People don't think thru what happens if the shoe is on the other foot. We have no business deciding which oil-rich nations need overthrown.
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Yep. Giftwrapped execution. Sure he was an evil dude worthy of the gallows. But it's a dangerous precedent for the US to "decide" regime change is in order, and facilitate the overthrow and allow the execution.
Suppose the Chinese and Russians got together and decided the U.S. was in need of regime change, and they started bombing our cities. People don't think thru what happens if the shoe is on the other foot. We have no business deciding which oil-rich nations need overthrown.
Exactly!!!
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Yep. Giftwrapped execution. Sure he was an evil dude worthy of the gallows. But it's a dangerous precedent for the US to "decide" regime change is in order, and facilitate the overthrow and allow the execution.
Suppose the Chinese and Russians got together and decided the U.S. was in need of regime change, and they started bombing our cities. People don't think thru what happens if the shoe is on the other foot. We have no business deciding which oil-rich nations need overthrown.
Exactly!!!
That's always been my thought behind it as well... The guy was a nut, but it's not our duty to decide who is fit to lead a nation... look at what we've done to ours.
;)
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That's always been my thought behind it as well... The guy was a nut, but it's not our duty to decide who is fit to lead a nation... look at what we've done to ours.
;)
But people will ignore this and say that Saddam was a vicious terrorist and was a huge threat to both the US and Israel. ::) They'll cite obscure mustard gas and other things that we sold him as "WMDs" and say that he gave money to some hamas bomber, as if these actions are enough to justify a war where we've accomplished nothing except for putting money in the pockets of Exxon, BP and Haliburton shareholders. ::)
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That's always been my thought behind it as well... The guy was a nut, but it's not our duty to decide who is fit to lead a nation... look at what we've done to ours.
;)
Crazy people run MOST countries......N Korea, China, Iran, etc etc etc.
The current Iraqi PM had a gorrilla Army and tried to kill Saddam in 1982.........connect the dots.
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That's always been my thought behind it as well... The guy was a nut, but it's not our duty to decide who is fit to lead a nation... ;D
;)
lol
We are not that off.... If you consider 500 billion in debt not a bad thing. And if you consider spending 500 Billion in Iraq while we still have Airlines on the verge of bankruptcy, Millions without medical insurance, a Shitty education system etc....
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lol
We are not that off.... If you consider 500 billion in debt not a bad thing. And if you consider spending 500 Billion in Iraq while we still have Airlines on the verge of bankruptcy, Millions without medical insurance, a Shitty education system etc....
We have NO MONEY for health ins. for Americans.
We do have 3 BILLION per week for Iraq though. >:(
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We have NO MONEY for health ins. for Americans.
We do have 3 BILLION per week for Iraq though. >:(
I'd be very happy if we just put 50 Billion in our Education system.
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I'd be very happy if we just put 50 Billion in our Education system.
Correct, it's in shambles.