What has been accomplished in 4 years?

[The Enigma]

Tu he was asking about classifying a person as a "detainee" vs. "POW."  I don't think that distinction has anything to do with torture.  I see it as not providing all of the rights afforded to POWs.   

Who defines these "tortured" definitions?

[militarymuscle69]

Who defines these "tortured" definitions?

That is what i have been asking. Do you consider waterboarding inhumane?

[Dos Equis]

Who defines these "tortured" definitions?

Whomever drafted the Geneva Convention. 

[The Enigma]

Whomever drafted the Geneva Convention. 

We tossed out the GC........remember?

[headhuntersix]

Have any of u guys talked to a interrogator..they have extremely strict rules and the guys that do it are highly trained. Their job and how they are used is very different then what most military folks are used to. Kids with very little time in service are used to conduct interviews and interrogations. If they are good they become the go to guys when dealing with prisoners..it doesn't matter about rank as about ability. They get physc tested all the time in theater. It was very interesting talking to some of those guys. They were all extremely bright. Water boarding is exceptable if it helps paint the intel picture..talk to any of these guys..physical violence does not always work..chemicals , sensory dreprivation etc can work much more effectively. But some guys need to be smacked around a little bit. We are not talking about nice folks anyway..these guys are all pretty big time terrorists.

[The Enigma]

That is what i have been asking. Do you consider waterboarding inhumane?

Yes, and electrocution.

[headhuntersix]

As a doc I imagine u would. I understand ur point of view and I think u have seen the worst part of this war. From my point of view and from my experiences I think ur OR may be busier if we don't do all we can to ensure we get the right Intel.

[tu_holmes]

You understand them very well? Maybe you would like ot tell the class some things that an NCO can be made to do as a POW that an officer can't...or maybe explain the different levels of punishment that can be administered by rank?

They aren't POWs dude, just like in Bosnia. How many people have we "tortured" anyway

All you may ever want to know.

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

Yes, and electrocution.

I too believe it's inhumane... We're supposed to be better than these guys, but we act just like them.

[militarymuscle69]

All you may ever want to know.

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm
I too believe it's inhumane... We're supposed to be better than these guys, but we act just like them.

"act just like them"....are you serious? we parade blindfolded men around on TV, behead prisoners, allow them no contact with the outside world...no religion? try again there puss

[militarymuscle69]

All you may ever want to know.

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm
I too believe it's inhumane... We're supposed to be better than these guys, but we act just like them.

LOL, I can post links on how to perform open heart surgery but that doesn't mean " I greatly understand" how to do it....so you really don't know shit about it.

[tu_holmes]

"act just like them"....are you serious? we parade blindfolded men around on TV, behead prisoners, allow them no contact with the outside world...no religion? try again there puss

Did you see the hanging of Saddam? We have had public hangins in THIS country and it's still a legal form of death in some states.

You think I'm a puss because I believe in human rights? You're a funny guy... You talk about what the military is supposed to be doing... Saving lives, protecting freedom, enhancing human rights, but when I say we're not really doing it, I'm a puss... You're delusioned.

You're in the Middle East right? Go ahead and feel free to stay there ALL you want... I'm doing just fine stateside without you.

Can we get back the decent people in the Military who understand the difference between barbarism and civility and let the rest stay over there?

No, I guess not, because that's not really right either... I will welcome you back MM, but if you call me a puss to my face, I would show you how much of a puss I am.

LOL, I can post links on how to perform open heart surgery but that doesn't mean " I greatly understand" how to do it....so you really don't know shit about it.

Well, considering one requires mental understanding and the other requires that plus practice... Your comparison doesn't really work. What do you do again? Are you a looking after the welfare and treatment of prisoners? Are you part of the UN? What do you do MM?

I'm sure that since I'm quite able to comprehend what I read, that I understand it just as well as you do.

Good job getting personal tough guy.

[militarymuscle69]

Did you see the hanging of Saddam? We have had public hangins in THIS country and it's still a legal form of death in some states.

You think I'm a puss because I believe in human rights? You're a funny guy... You talk about what the military is supposed to be doing... Saving lives, protecting freedom, enhancing human rights, but when I say we're not really doing it, I'm a puss... You're delusioned.

You're in the Middle East right? Go ahead and feel free to stay there ALL you want... I'm doing just fine stateside without you.

Can we get back the decent people in the Military who understand the difference between barbarism and civility and let the rest stay over there?

No, I guess not, because that's not really right either... I will welcome you back MM, but if you call me a puss to my face, I would show you how much of a puss I am.

Well, considering one requires mental understanding and the other requires that plus practice... Your comparison doesn't really work. What do you do again? Are you a looking after the welfare and treatment of prisoners? Are you part of the UN? What do you do MM?

I'm sure that since I'm quite able to comprehend what I read, that I understand it just as well as you do.

Good job getting personal tough guy.

umm, smart guy, who led the trial against saddam and then executed the hanging.....good luck trying to find an American that had hands on it

[Dos Equis]

We tossed out the GC........remember?

Circular argument.  We didn't toss out the Geneva Convention.  It doesn't apply to terrorists.  At least that's my interpretation.

[youandme]

umm, smart guy, who led the trial against saddam and then executed the hanging.....good luck trying to find an American that had hands on it

Exceprt taken from Nir Rosen

Saddam Hussein became the first modern Arab dictator to die violently since Egypt's Anwar Sadat in 1981. Saddam's hanging at the hands of chubby Iraqi men wearing ski masks is likely to be perceived by many as an American execution and as part of a trend of American missteps contributing to sectarian tensions in Iraq and the region. The trial of Saddam was viewed by detractors as an event stage-managed by the Americans. According to Human Rights Watch, the Iraqi judges and lawyers involved in prosecuting Saddam were ill prepared and relied on their American advisers. American minders shut off the microphones and ordered the translators to halt whenever they disapproved of what was being said by the defendants.

[tu_holmes]

umm, smart guy, who led the trial against saddam and then executed the hanging.....good luck trying to find an American that had hands on it

Well, let's see... The US invaded a sovereign nation, and handed the leader of that country to a hostile force... who in turn, hung him for crimes.

Since the US was the catalyst for the entire process... Every person involved in the "War" was involved in this trial.

And since we started it... That would mean we led the trial.

Leave it to the "smart guy" to explain it... No problem.

Exceprt taken from Nir Rosen

Saddam Hussein became the first modern Arab dictator to die violently since Egypt's Anwar Sadat in 1981. Saddam's hanging at the hands of chubby Iraqi men wearing ski masks is likely to be perceived by many as an American execution and as part of a trend of American missteps contributing to sectarian tensions in Iraq and the region. The trial of Saddam was viewed by detractors as an event stage-managed by the Americans. According to Human Rights Watch, the Iraqi judges and lawyers involved in prosecuting Saddam were ill prepared and relied on their American advisers. American minders shut off the microphones and ordered the translators to halt whenever they disapproved of what was being said by the defendants.

Oh, and what he said too.

[Dos Equis]

According to Human Rights Watch . . .

[youandme]

Wow he cited a source to go along with his commentary. Nir Rosen is a public intellectual and leading writer on current international affairs, he's lived in Afghanistan, Iraq and somolia for years.

[militarymuscle69]

Well, let's see... The US invaded a sovereign nation, and handed the leader of that country to a hostile force... who in turn, hung him for crimes.

Since the US was the catalyst for the entire process... Every person involved in the "War" was involved in this trial.

And since we started it... That would mean we led the trial.

Leave it to the "smart guy" to explain it... No problem.



Oh, and what he said too.

LMAO!! this is to easy....if you read the whole paragraph and not just the chosen highlights, you will see that it says "The trial of Saddam was viewed by detractors as an event stage-managed by the Americans. According to Human Rights Watch, the Iraqi judges and lawyers involved in prosecuting Saddam were ill prepared and relied on their American advisers"

So it was a personal opinion that the trial was American run..priceless......and your saddam analogy doesn't compare to the handling of detainees

[youandme]

So it was a personal opinion that the trial was American run..priceless......and your saddam analogy doesn't compare to the handling of detainees

Look up any Iraqi article on Saddam's trial, it is the same opinion expressed. Are you saying that Iraqis opinions regarding their own country are not worth merit?

[Dos Equis]

Wow he cited a source to go along with his commentary. Nir Rosen is a public intellectual and leading writer on current international affairs, he's lived in Afghanistan, Iraq and somolia for years.

O.K.  That means he shares the opinion of "Human Rights Watch."  So what.

[militarymuscle69]

Look up any Iraqi article on Saddam's trial, it is the same opinion expressed. Are you saying that Iraqis opinions regarding their own country are not worth merit?

I bet if I look on O'reilly, limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter..you think they will say it was American run? Of course you would trust Iraqi's more. Oh I guess I forgot that I saw an American sitting behind the judge the whole time whispering in his ear before he spoke. You are probably right though, Iraqis are really mad at us for hanging Saddam

[tu_holmes]

LMAO!! this is to easy....if you read the whole paragraph and not just the chosen highlights, you will see that it says "The trial of Saddam was viewed by detractors as an event stage-managed by the Americans. According to Human Rights Watch, the Iraqi judges and lawyers involved in prosecuting Saddam were ill prepared and relied on their American advisers"

So it was a personal opinion that the trial was American run..priceless......and your saddam analogy doesn't compare to the handling of detainees

You didn't even bother responding to MY point... the point about us ousting a foreign leader and handing him over to a hostile force.

Were we, or were we not responsible for that?

If so, then yes, we were just as culpable for his trial and hanging as anyone.

[militarymuscle69]

You didn't even bother responding to MY point... the point about us ousting a foreign leader and handing him over to a hostile force.

Were we, or were we not responsible for that?

If so, then yes, we were just as culpable for his trial and hanging as anyone.

How does that compare to the treatment of detainees? This started because you said we act just like them in our treatment of detainees.

Don't ever take that pic of your profile though, me and they guys here get a good laugh at ti evertime you respond!

[Decker]

Who defines these "tortured" definitions?

The Military Commissions Act of 2006 governs this stuff. 

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/MC_Act-2006.html

The law is a disgrace and affront to our constitution.  It may still be struck for vagueness.

[tu_holmes]

How does that compare to the treatment of detainees? This started because you said we act just like them in our treatment of detainees.

Don't ever take that pic of your profile though, me and they guys here get a good laugh at ti evertime you respond!

Don't worry I won't... good job avoiding the points though.