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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on March 27, 2007, 04:24:00 PM
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Should States Apologize for Slavery?
Tuesday, Mar. 27, 2007 By JENINNE LEE-ST. JOHN
On Monday Maryland became only the second state after Virginia to officially seek atonement for slavery. The state's House of Delegates approved a measure, already passed by the senate and not requiring the governor's signature, expressing "profound regret for the role that Maryland played in instituting and maintaining slavery and for the discrimination that was slavery's legacy."
While the apology for slavery has been grabbing all the headlines, it's the regret for the legacy of slavery that really matters.
Many non-blacks assert that they shouldn't apologize for something they didn't do. There is logic to that thinking: if you didn't own slaves or enable others to own slaves, you aren't culpable. But the U.S. didn't do a very good job of converting its former slaves to full-fledged citizens. Slavery gave way to Jim Crow, lynchings, poll taxes, redlining and educational and job discrimination. Although illegal now, these tools perpetuated a racial hierarchy that affects every American today, no matter how subtly. Just compare any rates of achievement, poverty, imprisonment by race; blacks are nowhere closing to catching up.
No wonder black people were so appalled when Frank Hargrove, a Virginia legislator who is white, said last month "black citizens should get over" slavery. That notion invalidates the black reality. It essentially says: The discrimination you feel and I benefit from is an illusion — or at least has no historical context.
Ultimately, Hargrove voted for Virginia's apology measure, which was passed in February and acknowledges that abolition was followed by "insidious institutions and practices toward Americans of African descent that were rooted in racism, racial bias and racial misunderstanding." Put more simply, the Maryland resolution seems to imply that discrimination against blacks hurts everyone: "Slavery's legacy has afflicted the citizens of our state down to the present."
These aren't easy things to talk about. It's one thing to say that slavery, so long ago, was wrong; quite another to discuss our complicity in its lingering effects. That's why Delegate Michael L. Vaughn, who sponsored the Maryland House measure, says the apology isn't about reparations but opening a dialogue to bridge the racial divide. "Slavery has had a negative effect on relationships between people of color and non-color to this day," Vaughn, who is black, told me. "When we talk about matters of race, people are uncomfortable. I don't think this resolution is the be-all, end-all, but it gets people talking."
Legislators in a handful of states including Missouri and Georgia are considering their own expressions of regret for slavery, and Rep. Stephen I. Cohen, a white Tennessean, just introduced a resolution for a national apology in the U.S. House that reads, in part, "African-Americans continue to suffer from the consequences of slavery and Jim Crow — long after both systems were formally abolished — through enormous damage and loss, both tangible and intangible, including the loss of human dignity and liberty, the frustration of careers and professional lives, and the long-term loss of income and opportunity."
Obviously, not everyone is convinced that the apology is necessary. Maryland Delegate Patrick L. McDonough said he voted against the resolution not only because his ancestors were in Ireland during the time of U.S. slavery, but also because he feels such a stance amounts to meaningless symbolism. "I don't think apologies solve anything," the Baltimore Sun reported McDonough saying. "They're just feel-good superficial measures."
But sometimes feel-good does good. "The first step in healing is to apologize," Vaughn says. "For a young person who is knowledgeable of the effects slavery has had on him and his country — for any of us who have felt discriminated against because of this legacy — you do have a small sense of relief when you hear an apology."
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1603581,00.html?cnn=yes
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Sure, I guess..I mean mine where in Ireland and Sicily so I have nothing to apologize for but if somebody thinks it will help. ::)I won't hold my breath for the Brits to do the same.
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Apologist behavior will not solve anything. ::)
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Why should people who weren't involved apologize to the descendants of victims?
That's stupid. these people need to get over themselves and move on.
Don't we have more important things to worry about?
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Why should people who weren't involved apologize to the descendants of victims?
That's stupid. these people need to get over themselves and move on.
Don't we have more important things to worry about?
Exactly!
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Why should people who weren't involved apologize to the descendants of victims?
That's stupid. these people need to get over themselves and move on.
Don't we have more important things to worry about?
agreed, plus this would just open the door to lawsuits for reparations.
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go back in your family tree and youll find there was some type of slavery/torture/suffering.. you didnt come here because your life was great in another country.. i dont care what race you are. italian,irish,asia,black weve all had to deal with the same shit
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I didn't realise that you had the same news in America as we have in the UK. TonyfuckingBlair made a reallylovelyfuckingsilly "we repent" speech.
xL
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I won't hold my breath for the Brits to do the same.
What, the Brits have more to apologise for?
only joking...
xL
it's a mess, but they made up in Ireland? that would be good, i've always said that if they could sort out the locals, the world might be okay. I don't actually understand politics that very well, but I've always known Ireland was a showpiece and/or the last frontier.
Is it fixed?
living in hope
xL
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seek atonement for slavery.
oh hang on, I'll be up all night. The US can't possibly apologise for nothing, they're a new country, they've only been there a little while. You've got the British et al. to blame.
xL
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go back in your family tree and youll find there was some type of slavery/torture/suffering.. you didnt come here because your life was great in another country.. i dont care what race you are. italian,irish,asia,black weve all had to deal with the same shit
exactly, so why should one race apologize to another for events too long ago for anyone alive to remember?
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I have to preface this with the fact that I'm a product of interracial relations.
The answer is no... The only way the US should apologize is if everyone who accepts the apology get returned to the location where the initial kidnapping took place.
If you don't want to go back, then you shouldn't get an apology.
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when africa apologizes for selling their own out..the states can apologize..
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exactly, so why should one race apologize to another for events too long ago for anyone alive to remember?
It's called American History.
Those who are affected by these events still feel the repercussions.
Hell,
Al Sharpton just found out he has a connection to Strum Thurmond.
Things like this come out all of the time.
I don't advocate the "victim" "woe is me" attitude.
The question is how does one get over it?
Sandra
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when africa apologizes for selling their own out..the states can apologize..
Makes sense.
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exactly, so why should one race apologize to another for events too long ago for anyone alive to remember?
I think it started when the holocast victims won compensation.
nouveau politics. Ask Blair, he's got an election coming up. Perhaps your Bush has gone all loveydovey. I doubt it.
You'll bomb another yet. Only kidding, You've got the big bombs after all.
xL
But I reckon the UK owes the entire world (except Germany) big time compensation: India, Hong Kong, etc...
Australia and Canada could maybe chip in?
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Makes sense.
fuccckkkk right off, we owe africa the big payback. xL
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It's called American History.
Those who are affected by these events still feel the repercussions.
Hell,
Al Sharpton just found out he has a connection to Strum Thurmond.
Things like this come out all of the time.
I don't advocate the "victim" "woe is me" attitude.
The question is how does one get over it?
Sandra
how does one get over the death of a family member?
time...
however if at ever turn you have someone screaming racism!!!!
it becomes a front page issue for that much longer
fuccckkkk right off, we owe africa the big payback. xL
we owe Africa jack shit..fuck Africa, there I said it. >:(
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when africa apologizes for selling their own out..the states can apologize..
if i say sorry first will that help? I'm white, I'm English and I'm fuckiing lucky. but on the other hand (I've only got two and I'd gladly give you one), I'm totally aware of the black man's war.
xL
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It's called American History.
Those who are affected by these events still feel the repercussions.
Hell,
Al Sharpton just found out he has a connection to Strum Thurmond.
Things like this come out all of the time.
I don't advocate the "victim" "woe is me" attitude.
The question is how does one get over it?
Sandra
Very simple, make a decision to get over by not paying any attention to it. what people tend to do when they pay attention to it is use it as an alibi for all there short comings. It's another of the many ways not to take responsibility for themselves and what happens to them. It's mind over matter....if you don't mind, it don't matter
We all have challenges, some greater then others. It's not anyone's obligation to help others with those challenges, It's up to the individual to overcome those challenges and prosper in life.
Far too many people whine and play the victim. In America today, even without a college education a person can get ahead and build a great a prosperous life with determination and hard work.
The problem is most people these days especially many young ones treat the word "work" like a 4-letter curse word.
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how does one get over the death of a family member?
time...
however if at ever turn you have someone screaming racism!!!!
it becomes a front page issue for that much longerwe owe Africa jack shit..fuck Africa, there I said it. >:(
Fine
xL
what ever you lot say over there, you're so far away...
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I think it started when the holocast victims won compensation.
nouveau politics. Ask Blair, he's got an election coming up. Perhaps your Bush has gone all loveydovey. I doubt it.
You'll bomb another yet. Only kidding, You've got the big bombs after all.
xL
But I reckon the UK owes the entire world (except Germany) big time compensation: India, Hong Kong, etc...
Australia and Canada could maybe chip in?
The holocaust victims were still alive. Slaves from the 1600's to 1865 aren't.
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Very simple, make a decision to get over by not paying any attention to it.
treat the word "work" like a 4-letter curse word.
You've gone off on a tangent. You're talking now about young people nowadays and they don't have fuuuccckkking clue about history, they're just taking the piss.
xL
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You've gone off on a tangent. You're talking now about young people nowadays and they don't have fuuuccckkking clue about history, they're just taking the piss.
xL
I was responding to this line:
It's called American History.
Those who are affected by these events still feel the repercussions.
Hell,
Al Sharpton just found out he has a connection to Strum Thurmond.
Things like this come out all of the time.
I don't advocate the "victim" "woe is me" attitude.
The question is how does one get over it?
Sandra
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The holocaust victims were still alive. Slaves from the 1600's to 1865 aren't.
Too true. The UK will apologise for all. Watch us.
In the last 50 years, we've given back Australia and Canada and Hong Kong and India. Before that (we, the royal we, I'm English), invented your America. Give over. Let's get history straight. Who won the fuuuucckkkkinnngggg last world war. (Sorry, I lost my grandad in that one).
And I'm fairly certain the reason I've got golden skin is because I'm descended from someone from a faraway sunny place...
xL
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Too true. The UK will apologise for all. Watch us.
In the last 50 years, we've given back Australia and Canada and Hong Kong and India. Before that (we, the royal we, I'm English), invented your America. Give over. Let's get history straight. Who won the fuuuucckkkkinnngggg last world war. (Sorry, I lost my grandad in that one).
And I'm fairly certain the reason I've got golden skin is because I'm descended from someone from a faraway sunny place...
xL
Someone who worked for the East Indian Trading Company perhaps? ;D
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Yep, there's a court case on the BBC news against the Church of England and also against Tate&Lyle, the sugarmakers. Big news.
xL
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Someone who worked for the East Indian Trading Company perhaps? ;D
Hope so, maybe I've a rich relative out there...
Only kidding
xxxstupid white girl in London, Englandxxx
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No.
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agreed, plus this would just open the door to lawsuits for reparations.
Or not.
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Very simple, make a decision to get over by not paying any attention to it. what people tend to do when they pay attention to it is use it as an alibi for all there short comings. It's another of the many ways not to take responsibility for themselves and what happens to them. It's mind over matter....if you don't mind, it don't matter
We all have challenges, some greater then others. It's not anyone's obligation to help others with those challenges, It's up to the individual to overcome those challenges and prosper in life.
Far too many people whine and play the victim. In America today, even without a college education a person can get ahead and build a great a prosperous life with determination and hard work.
The problem is most people these days especially many young ones treat the word "work" like a 4-letter curse word.
Again, I am not talking about people who use race as an excuse to whine and be a "victim". I think that is bullshit.
I am talking about being the first black mayor of NYC and not being able to get a cab because of the color or your skin.
I am talking about being dragged to death behind a truck because of the color of your skin.
I am talking about when trying to come up with an excuse for stupid behavior(runaway bride) say a black person kidnapped you.
How do you get over that? I do mind and it does matter. Because for the Grace of God There goes I.
Sandra
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The issues you spoke of are "personal" for the people who enacted that way. Of all the incidents you posted, you could find people who would do the complete opposite.
Racsism is in a certain amount of people. Not everyone has it.
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The issues you spoke of are "personal" for the people who enacted that way. Of all the incidents you posted, you could find people who would do the complete opposite.
Racsism is in a certain amount of people. Not everyone has it.
Yes racism is in a certain amount of people, ..however, racism is NOT a natural state.
The racism is there because it is taught ...both directly and indirectly. It is a legacy from slavery,
...and the way to get over it, is to understand it, and to recognize it's many manifestations.
Those that both benefit and work against members of society of all races.
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Again, none of this has anything to do with people who weren't alive back then apologizing to people who weren't alive back then fro something they didn't do to somebody who didn't suffer it.
It's a waste of timer money and resources.
Also apologizing isn't going to change the racists of today.
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Again, none of this has anything to do with people who weren't alive back then apologizing to people who weren't alive back then fro something they didn't do to somebody who didn't suffer it.
It's a waste of timer money and resources.
Also apologizing isn't going to change the racists of today.
I'll apologize to blacks when they apologize to the more qualified people that didn't get hired because they weren't black. Affirmative action, what a joke. I would be really proud to be hired to fill the black slot at work
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Again, none of this has anything to do with people who weren't alive back then apologizing to people who weren't alive back then fro something they didn't do to somebody who didn't suffer it.
It's a waste of timer money and resources.
Also apologizing isn't going to change the racists of today.
You state that as if those alive to day who did not own slaves, do not and have not benefitted from the legacy,
and as if those those alive today who were not slaves, do not suffer as a result of the legacy.
You clearly do not understand it because you are not aware of how the legacy touches your life everyday.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, there are many who do.
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I'll apologize to blacks when they apologize to the more qualified people that didn't get hired because they weren't black. Affirmative action, what a joke. I would be really proud to be hired to fill the black slot at work
You speak as if Blacks are the sole beneficiaries of Affirmative Action.
The greatest beneficiaries of affirmative action have been white women.
Have a little basis in fact before you open your mouth.
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Oh, brother....
First up, state-sanctioned 'apologies' for slavery mean absolutely nothing. And in the cases of Black men who've been wrongly convicted of and served prison sentences for crimes they did not commit, they mean even less, because you cannot 'un-steal' a man's life.
Secondly, there is no denying that a large segment of the American population has indirectly benefitted while another large segment has been placed at a disadvantage.
BUT, that being said, there are also many opportunities that my people have failed to capitalize on and this is no one's fault but our own.
1) If we love ourselves and know our history in Black America, then EVERY BLACK CHILD should be desperate to be in school every single year.
2) And just as importantly, we should strive to ensure that a significant percentage of the money we earn is saved in Black-owned banks and invested or spent in Black-owned businesses.
Those are two huge items that we have complete control over. It's up to us to decide that we want to build wealth and have a little equity in this country.
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You state that as if those alive to day who did not own slaves, do not and have not benefitted from the legacy,
and as if those those alive today who were not slaves, do not suffer as a result of the legacy.
You clearly do not understand it because you are not aware of how the legacy touches your life everyday.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, there are many who do.
We all have our own challenges we must face in life. Some have it better than others....... by your logic rich people should be apologizing to poor people. That's stupid.
We all have challenges, we need to stop whining about them and move on with our lives.
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I don't have a problem with the apology. It isn't about punishing people who had nothing to do with slavery; it is about accountability. It is a state acknowledging their role in a sordid part of our history. It's never too late to say "I'm sorry" and be accountable. I don't support reparations, but an apology is okay with me.
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Yes racism is in a certain amount of people, ..however, racism is NOT a natural state.
The racism is there because it is taught ...both directly and indirectly. It is a legacy from slavery,
...and the way to get over it, is to understand it, and to recognize it's many manifestations.
Those that both benefit and work against members of society of all races.
I'd have to disagree with you there jag. Whenever people of a different skin color, be it white, black, brown, etc. come into a culture who are not acustomed to them, there wil be a sense of precaution. Now, if that particular group happens to harm or hurt anyone in that setting, that culture will deem them as bad. They will identify them by "skin color" and at that point will almost not want anything to do with them at all. It's been that way in the world for years. Start with the American Indian.
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I don't have a problem with the apology. It isn't about punishing people who had nothing to do with slavery; it is about accountability. It is a state acknowledging their role in a sordid part of our history. It's never too late to say "I'm sorry" and be accountable. I don't support reparations, but an apology is okay with me.
It's December 15th, 1947 in Hammond, Indiana. The kids from Miss Shields class are out on the playground encouraging young Flick to touch his tongue to the frozen flagpole to see whether it will stick. It's a mob scene as they chant his name, egging him on. Finally, as the excitement has built to a fever pitch, he does it and to the amazement of all the other kids and to his horror, Flick's tongue is stuck to the flagpole.
The bell rings, and all the kids pour back into the classroom, leaving Flick stuck to a flagpole in the wintry cold.
Once back inside, the teacher notices that Flick is not back yet and discovers what has happened when one of the kids points outside.
Eventually, Flick is rescued by the fire department, but holding up the Playground Honor Code, Flick refuses to give up any of his buddies who may have been involved in the incident. After all, there was no clear ringleader, was there?
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Telling or admitting the truth is great, but for there to be 'accountability', there has to be some penalty.
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We all have our own challenges we must face in life. Some have it better than others....... by your logic rich people should be apologizing to poor people. That's stupid.
We all have challenges, we need to stop whining about them and move on with our lives.
No, ...that's not my logic at all.
Yes, we all have challenges, ...not everyone's challenges however have been legislated ones. If you consider a state's legislature's decision to apologize for wrongdoing as "whining", I guess there really is no discussing this with you.
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It's December 15th, 1947 in Hammond, Indiana. The kids from Miss Shields class are out on the playground encouraging young Flick to touch his tongue to the frozen flagpole to see whether it will stick. It's a mob scene as they chant his name, egging him on. Finally, as the excitement has built to a fever pitch, he does it and to the amazement of all the other kids and to his horror, Flick's tongue is stuck to the flagpole.
The bell rings, and all the kids pour back into the classroom, leaving Flick stuck to a flagpole in the wintry cold.
Once back inside, the teacher notices that Flick is not back yet and discovers what has happened when one of the kids points outside.
Eventually, Flick is rescued by the fire department, but holding up the Playground Honor Code, Flick refuses to give up any of his buddies who may have been involved in the incident. After all, there was no clear ringleader, was there?
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Telling or admitting the truth is great, but for there to be 'accountability', there has to be some penalty.
I don't understand the purpose of your story?
I disagree there has to be a "penalty." Sometimes it is too late to hold people legally responsible for conduct, or perhaps the conduct was not even illegal (both situations apply to "reparations"), but that really has nothing to do with whether an individual or entity should apologize/accept responsibility/be accountable.
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I'd have to disagree with you there jag. Whenever people of a different skin color, be it white, black, brown, etc. come into a culture who are not acustomed to them, there wil be a sense of precaution. Now, if that particular group happens to harm or hurt anyone in that setting, that culture will deem them as bad. They will identify them by "skin color" and at that point will almost not want anything to do with them at all. It's been that way in the world for years. Start with the American Indian.
The hatred that starts from a direct offense is not the same as the sort of systemic racism that gave birth to your society. It was an institution for 600 yrs., it might take a few more to eradicate it, ...but first it starts with an understanding of it's detrimental effects to society as a whole... which btw are not limited to the underclass.
it is only when those who enjoy the priviledge racism confers on them, start to realize they too have lost and have potentially even more to lose, will we see an honest attempt to address the issues.
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No, ...that's not my logic at all.
Yes, we all have challenges, ...not everyone's challenges however have been legislated ones. If you consider a state's legislature's decision to apologize for wrongdoing as "whining", I guess there really is no discussing this with you.
NO, The state legislature's decision to apologize is a waste of time & money in the mists of people in this country who are starving, in need of housing and in need of medical attention.
we need to get over it and move on. AND stop whining about it. An apology isn't going to change jack diddley other waste more money and time.
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NO, The state legislature's decision to apologize is a waste of time & money in the mists of people in this country who are starving, in need of housing and in need of medical attention.
we need to get over it and move on. AND stop whining about it. An apology isn't going to change jack diddley other waste more money and time.
Sorry, I forgot there are more important things to do... like invade innocent countries to steal their resources and thwart their progress as a society.
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Sorry, I forgot there are more important things to do... like invade innocent countries to steal their resources and thwart their progress as a society.
IMO, domestic issues such as Education and medical care out weigh what ever we really went into Iraq for.
So please don't pin that one on me. :-*
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IMO, domestic issues such as Education and medical care out weigh what ever we really went into Iraq for.
So please don't pin that one on me. :-*
I need to pin it on someone. I'm having a bad day... heartburn since 7:30am. I'm not happy. :-\
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I need to pin it on someone. I'm having a bad day... heartburn since 7:30am. I'm not happy. :-\
Zantac 150's? That's what i use....
Sorry you are feeling bad. :(