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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on April 16, 2007, 07:14:21 AM

Title: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 16, 2007, 07:14:21 AM
breaking news now.  no details yet.

cav, watch your ass up there man.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 16, 2007, 07:18:50 AM
10:15 AM - gunman loose on campus. students warned to avoid windows and stay in their rooms.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 16, 2007, 07:46:08 AM

What the bloody hell??

Send them back to the Big East where that shit flies.

Stay safe, people.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Colossus_500 on April 16, 2007, 09:06:10 AM
One Dead, Eight Hurt at Virginia Tech Campus Shooting
NewsMax.com Wires
Monday, April 16, 2007

BLACKSBURG, Va. -- One person was killed and seven or eight more were shot in a dorm and in a classroom on the Virginia Tech campus Monday before police arrested a suspected gunman, officials told The Associated Press.

Police confirmed they had a suspect in custody, the university said on its Web site.

On the Web site, Tech confirmed the shooting at opposite ends of the 2,600-acre campus at West Ambler Johnston, a residence hall, and reported "multiple victims" at Norris Hall, an engineering building.

The university said in a news release there were multiple victims. Government officials with knowledge of the case said there were seven to eight other "casualties."

Students were asked to stay in their homes away from windows.

"There's just a lot of commotion. It's hard to tell exactly what's going on," said student Jason Anthony Smith, 19, who lives in the building where shooting took place.

The shooting was reported at West Ambler Johnston Hall.

Officials ordered the campus closed, the second time in less than a year the 26,000-student campus was shut because of a shooting.

In August 2006, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus.

The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.



© 2007 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 16, 2007, 10:21:42 AM

I thought Bush was keeping us safe from the terrorists?
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Colossus_500 on April 16, 2007, 10:22:09 AM
Police at Virginia Tech say that at least 22 people were killed in two shootings today in a dormitory and a classroom.

The gunman is among those dead.

Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said that one person was killed in the first shooting, just after 7 a.m., at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a huge dormitory. Flinchum said 20 more people were killed in a later shooting at Norris Hall, an academic building.

Flinchum said the gunman was dead, but wouldn’t say whether the shooter killed himself.

Some but not all the dead are students. Two local hospitals reported treating 21 people.

President Charles Steger said that police have not officially tied together the two shootings.

Steger described today’s events as an incident of “tragic proportions,” and said “the university is shocked and horrified that this would befall us.”

Steger says the campus is closed today, and classes are canceled today and tomorrow.

(c) 2007. The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 16, 2007, 10:23:12 AM
Horrible.  And 3-4 terrorists with AKs could have easily killed ten times that in a crowded school.

our schools are just too open - they need more security.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Colossus_500 on April 16, 2007, 10:32:18 AM
The story is not even a half a day old, and ALREADY it's George Bush's fault!    ::)

This is beyond asinine! 

You don't even take the time to pray or grieve for the family members who have lost their children or sympathize with the parents who haven't heard from their kids yet.  Instead, you go immediately on a political tirade.  Very childish behavior guys!   >:(
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: BayGBM on April 16, 2007, 10:35:21 AM
Yikes!  And to think, I taught there for a while.   :(
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: youandme on April 16, 2007, 10:36:38 AM
21 thats terrible
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: ToxicAvenger on April 16, 2007, 10:37:52 AM
The story is not even a half a day old, and ALREADY it's George Bush's fault!    ::)



he didn't say THAT...now did he..

but isn't anyone with a gun now a days ..unless in texas..classified as a terrorist?


Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: ToxicAvenger on April 16, 2007, 10:40:03 AM


You don't even take the time to pray or grieve for the family members who have lost their children or sympathize with the parents who haven't heard from their kids yet. 

wanna take the time to grieve for the orphans in iraq?
wanna take the time to grieve for the widows here in the US?
wanna take the time to grieve for us for the hatred wre inspire?


VERY convenient to parade morality when it suits ya...typical christian right wing thing to do

Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: ieffinhatecardio on April 16, 2007, 10:40:44 AM
The story is not even a half a day old, and ALREADY it's George Bush's fault!    ::)

This is beyond asinine! 

You don't even take the time to pray or grieve for the family members who have lost their children or sympathize with the parents who haven't heard from their kids yet.  Instead, you go immediately on a political tirade.  Very childish behavior guys!   >:(

Calm down scrappy, Tre's the only one that made a comment and it sounded like he was joking. If you waited until more people make Bush comments or find out if Tre was serious before you started with the indignation it might have more weight.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 16, 2007, 10:42:11 AM
Nobody is blaming Bush for today, settle down, colossus.

Today is the fault of one prick with a 9mm.

However it does illustrate the non-partisan need for greater school security.  This is the responsibility of lawmakers on all levels of both parties.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Colossus_500 on April 16, 2007, 10:43:05 AM
wanna take the time to grieve for the orphans in iraq?
wanna take the time to grieve for the widows here in the US?
wanna take the time to grieve for us for the hatred wre inspire?


VERY convenient to parade morality when it suits ya...typical christian right wing thing to do


as a matter of fact, these people ARE in my prayers every day.  i even pray for folks like yourself. 
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: ToxicAvenger on April 16, 2007, 10:44:14 AM
lemme give Colostomy here some fodder..

"bush let the osama family..a whole plane full of em...it wasn't JUST daughter and mother..no a WHOLE PLANE FULL OF EM...leave the US RIGHT after 911"


why?


there we go..now begin :)
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Option D on April 16, 2007, 10:45:20 AM
as a matter of fact, these people ARE in my prayers every day.  i even pray for folks like yourself. 

Pray para su 13inch arms..
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: ToxicAvenger on April 16, 2007, 10:45:53 AM
as a matter of fact, these people ARE in my prayers every day.  i even pray for folks like yourself. 

i'm an athiest..dont bother mate..
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Colossus_500 on April 16, 2007, 10:46:06 AM
Nobody is blaming Bush for today, settle down, colossus.

Today is the fault of one prick with a 9mm.

However it does illustrate the non-partisan need for greater school security.  This is the responsibility of lawmakers on all levels of both parties.
I agree with you on the point for the need for greater security.  We are so vulnerable in many ways that are not spoken of (not just the borders).  

If I misinterpreted PF's statement, then I apologize for getting snippy.  It definitely sounded like it was being insinuated.  My apologies.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Colossus_500 on April 16, 2007, 10:49:04 AM
i'm an athiest..dont bother mate..
not to worry, PF, i'll keep on praying.  just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean I can pray for your well-being, bro. 
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: pumpster on April 16, 2007, 10:51:07 AM
How long until Americans finally get it and greatly curtail guns?

29 dead:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3045574
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Colossus_500 on April 16, 2007, 10:51:16 AM
Getting back on topic of the thread, this is the deadliest shooting on a campus since 1966, I believe.  That was the infamous shootings from the tour in Austin, Texas.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Option D on April 16, 2007, 10:52:41 AM
Getting back on topic of the thread, this is the deadliest shooting on a campus since 1966, I believe.  That was the infamous shootings from the tour in Austin, Texas.

so 220 really conformed dead? this is fuckin awful
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Colossus_500 on April 16, 2007, 10:55:14 AM
How long until Americans finally get it and greatly curtail guns?

29 dead:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3045574
This is devastating news.   :'(  I don't know why this gets to me.  Maybe it's because I know there are kids from my youth group that attend this school.  
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Colossus_500 on April 16, 2007, 10:56:06 AM
Now the death toll is up to 32.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Option D on April 16, 2007, 10:59:43 AM
Now the death toll is up to 32.

i just heard
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Dos Equis on April 16, 2007, 11:08:25 AM
The story is not even a half a day old, and ALREADY it's George Bush's fault!    ::)

This is beyond asinine! 

You don't even take the time to pray or grieve for the family members who have lost their children or sympathize with the parents who haven't heard from their kids yet.  Instead, you go immediately on a political tirade.  Very childish behavior guys!   >:(

Tell me about it.

This is just terrible.  My prayers are with the family members, friends, and the school. 
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: kh300 on April 16, 2007, 11:11:59 AM
thank god the gunman is dead,, last thing you want to do is go after a psycho like this..

your going to be seeing a dramatic increase of security at every college in the country.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Colossus_500 on April 16, 2007, 11:17:57 AM
thank god the gunman is dead,, last thing you want to do is go after a psycho like this..

your going to be seeing a dramatic increase of security at every college in the country.
I sure hope so. 
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: youandme on April 16, 2007, 11:21:00 AM
your going to be seeing a dramatic increase of security at every college in the country.


yeah for about 4 months then they will cut it to keep the budget in check.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 16, 2007, 11:23:39 AM
thank god the gunman is dead

As morbid as it sounds, I wish we had the opportunity to get into his head.

It's tragedies like this that remind me why I really do not believe in 'God'.

I'm numb. 

I attended college in the South...can still remember those warm spring days. 

I'm so very numb.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Colossus_500 on April 16, 2007, 11:29:46 AM
As morbid as it sounds, I wish we had the opportunity to get into his head.

It's tragedies like this that remind me why I really do not believe in 'God'.

I'm numb. 

I attended college in the South...can still remember those warm spring days. 

I'm so very numb.
Did you ever read the story of when Lazaurus was raised from the dead?  How do you think the people felt from the biblical days, where the slaughter of an entire city occured almost daily it seems?  Yet they still held fast to their believe in the Almighty God.  Have you ever pondered the thought that it's at times most tragic like these, that God ultimately shows His compassion, and ultimate glory to those who seek Him out?

Just something to think about, bro?
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: ieffinhatecardio on April 16, 2007, 11:29:46 AM
A shooting similar to this (not nearly as deadly) happened at a school in Vermont more than a decade ago. Like all things the furor over this will last a short time and then we'll forget about it and move to the next issue. I don't think any lasting changes will be instituted because of this.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 16, 2007, 11:34:30 AM
There were 3 hours between shooting #1 and the massacre.


Students are beginning to say the response to shooting #1 was nada.  AN email came at 9:30 about the 7 am shooting, then all hell broke loose right after that.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 16, 2007, 11:41:57 AM
A shooting similar to this (not nearly as deadly) happened at a school in Vermont more than a decade ago. Like all things the furor over this will last a short time and then we'll forget about it and move to the next issue. I don't think any lasting changes will be instituted because of this.

Right.  We cannot alter everything that's great about the way we live because of random - albeit very tragic - acts of violence. 

I wonder if there will be cell-phone videos of the rampage as it happened.  If so, that would certainly make this very different from any other school shootings in the past. 

I often wish I could go back to those days...so many wonderful memories.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 16, 2007, 11:45:35 AM
one early cell phone video shows police standing outside looking at each other as multiple gunshots rang out inside.

I guess they were waiting for orders or something.

Sad tho - every time that gun cracked, another kid was killed or wounded.  I wanted to jump out of my chair and run in there to help.  How they were able to just stand there, wow.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: ieffinhatecardio on April 16, 2007, 11:50:40 AM
Right.  We cannot alter everything that's great about the way we live because of random - albeit very tragic - acts of violence. 

I wonder if there will be cell-phone videos of the rampage as it happened.  If so, that would certainly make this very different from any other school shootings in the past. 

I often wish I could go back to those days...so many wonderful memories.


I would bet we'll start seeing videos and pictures by late afternoon or evening. I agree about altering the way we live but at some point these killings will have to effect the way certain people live their lives.

It seems like these things are more and more common. There were roughly 60 killed or wounded. WTF, that's a war zone.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: ieffinhatecardio on April 16, 2007, 11:53:52 AM
one early cell phone video shows police standing outside looking at each other as multiple gunshots rang out inside.

I guess they were waiting for orders or something.

Sad tho - every time that gun cracked, another kid was killed or wounded.  I wanted to jump out of my chair and run in there to help.  How they were able to just stand there, wow.

60 people killed or wounded is just insane. How long would it take to empty your magazine and reload multiple times?

The carnage of this one is just too shocking.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 16, 2007, 12:41:09 PM
60 people killed or wounded is just insane. How long would it take to empty your magazine and reload multiple times?

The carnage of this one is just too shocking.

While some are praising the campus police for their rapid response and the fact that they killed the gunman, you have a lot of people already questioning how there was anyone even in the classrooms on campus at 9am when a kid had been shot and killed in a campus dorm at 7:15am.



Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 16, 2007, 12:46:25 PM
While some are praising the campus police for their rapid response and the fact that they killed the gunman, you have a lot of people already questioning how there was anyone even in the classrooms on campus at 9am when a kid had been shot and killed in a campus dorm at 7:15am.

1 killed, 1 injured at 7:15 am is what one witness said.

the kid and his girl were fighting and the RA came out to intervene.  Both got shot, one lived, one didn't.

looks like a lot of schools are going to re-evaluate their procedures for shutting down campus after something bad happens.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: GreatFinn on April 16, 2007, 01:10:45 PM
one early cell phone video shows police standing outside looking at each other as multiple gunshots rang out inside.

I guess they were waiting for orders or something.

Sad tho - every time that gun cracked, another kid was killed or wounded.  I wanted to jump out of my chair and run in there to help.  How they were able to just stand there, wow.

And how exactly you would be helping there? Standing there posing with your Clock doesn't help anybody, and that's just about all you can do. You just haven't the time to tell shooter about your conspiracy theories, and get him bored to death...And yes, those polices stand there waiting orders, because they don't have a right to run to bullet. They can protect and serve only while they are living, so they have to keep it that way.

About your pointless and allusive speculation which was meant to show how coward those polices were, it is just shame full to be such an idiot like you. You see police standing and hear some gunshots, but you don't have any idea what is going on outside the picture. You don't see who is shooting, is shooter shooting towards to police or students, you see just one some police standing. You don't know if he is there giving some measurements for sniper, or eating donut. Still you are sure that it shows that they are just cowards, and you, our own little pale skin gangsta- wannabe, are ready to run to help, holding his little weenie in one hand and that lame plastic gun in another...Grow up, and stop that nonsense.

In situation like that, some pale little gangsta- wannabe is just as useful than extra asshole middle of your forehead....well, for you that would be useful, no doubt about that, but I meant generally speaking. In situation like that, you need guys with cool head, not some idiots who think they are tough guys. Not any internet tough guys, if you know what I mean, but look at the bright side of the matter: Now you get a whole new conspiracy theory to yak about. Is it Inside Job? Who Pay The Piper? Did CIA really know about this two weeks earlier? Are You Really a Gay?
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 24KT on April 16, 2007, 01:21:47 PM
1 killed, 1 injured at 7:15 am is what one witness said.

the kid and his girl were fighting and the RA came out to intervene.  Both got shot, one lived, one didn't.

looks like a lot of schools are going to re-evaluate their procedures for shutting down campus after something bad happens.


Why wasn't the kid in custody after the initial shooting?  :'(
There's gonna be a few wrongful death lawsuits over this one
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 16, 2007, 01:30:16 PM
looks like a lot of schools are going to re-evaluate their procedures for shutting down campus after something bad happens.

Someone jumps (or gets pushed) from the 10th floor of his dorm at 11am, life goes on.

Someone gets shot and killed in a dorm at 7am, you put the campus on lockdown before the campus is packed with people.

Someone gets shot and killed in a dorm at 11am, you've got a real problem.

It's always easier to analyze from the outside, but authorities are going to take a lot of heat because of the timeline here. 
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Cap on April 16, 2007, 02:04:57 PM
1 killed, 1 injured at 7:15 am is what one witness said.

the kid and his girl were fighting and the RA came out to intervene.  Both got shot, one lived, one didn't.

looks like a lot of schools are going to re-evaluate their procedures for shutting down campus after something bad happens.

Well, locking down the entire campus could have trapped the gunman in another building.  If you lock down a dorm or building and a student has access, they can still get in.  No plan survives first contact with the enemy and reevaluating the situation will not change anything for such a big school.  This isn't like a high school shooting.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Camel Jockey on April 16, 2007, 02:11:18 PM
I hope they put a few extra rounds in the body of the gunman for revenge's sake..  >:( What gives someone the arrogance to take an innocent's life? I don't understand how someone could murder 30+ people in cold blood..

Times like these makes me not want to trust other people at all.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 16, 2007, 02:15:26 PM
And how exactly you would be helping there? Standing there posing with your Clock doesn't help anybody, and that's just about all you can do. You just haven't the time to tell shooter about your conspiracy theories, and get him bored to death...And yes, those polices stand there waiting orders, because they don't have a right to run to bullet. They can protect and serve only while they are living, so they have to keep it that way.

About your pointless and allusive speculation which was meant to show how coward those polices were, it is just shame full to be such an idiot like you. You see police standing and hear some gunshots, but you don't have any idea what is going on outside the picture. You don't see who is shooting, is shooter shooting towards to police or students, you see just one some police standing. You don't know if he is there giving some measurements for sniper, or eating donut. Still you are sure that it shows that they are just cowards, and you, our own little pale skin gangsta- wannabe, are ready to run to help, holding his little weenie in one hand and that lame plastic gun in another...Grow up, and stop that nonsense.

In situation like that, some pale little gangsta- wannabe is just as useful than extra asshole middle of your forehead....well, for you that would be useful, no doubt about that, but I meant generally speaking. In situation like that, you need guys with cool head, not some idiots who think they are tough guys. Not any internet tough guys, if you know what I mean, but look at the bright side of the matter: Now you get a whole new conspiracy theory to yak about. Is it Inside Job? Who Pay The Piper? Did CIA really know about this two weeks earlier? Are You Really a Gay?

You're a homophobe, which means deep down, you probably dream of cornholing other men.

Aside from that, you're unfunny and a douche.  I hope this clarifies.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 16, 2007, 02:16:39 PM
Well, locking down the entire campus could have trapped the gunman in another building.  If you lock down a dorm or building and a student has access, they can still get in.  No plan survives first contact with the enemy and reevaluating the situation will not change anything for such a big school.  This isn't like a high school shooting.

They didn't have to lock down.  But cancelling classes might have been a good idea.  You have a dead body on campus with a bullet hole in it, another person critically wounded, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THE SHOOTER IS, and you allow classes to go on.

IMO, that is a mistake.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Cap on April 16, 2007, 02:34:43 PM
They didn't have to lock down.  But cancelling classes might have been a good idea.  You have a dead body on campus with a bullet hole in it, another person critically wounded, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THE SHOOTER IS, and you allow classes to go on.

IMO, that is a mistake.
Cancelling classes does nothing when 11,000 incoming students still go to their classes and could get mowed down, even if the buildings were locked.  Also, if you recall at UT, the killer was shooting at targets in open grass, which could have been done here, but with possibly less casualties. 
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Camel Jockey on April 16, 2007, 02:36:48 PM
The guy who recorded the shit is on CNN.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Option D on April 16, 2007, 02:42:11 PM
They didn't have to lock down.  But cancelling classes might have been a good idea.  You have a dead body on campus with a bullet hole in it, another person critically wounded, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THE SHOOTER IS, and you allow classes to go on.

IMO, that is a mistake.

i aint no police (pronouonced black style...police=Poe-leese lol) but i thought that keeping the students in the classroom would be best. and then setting up a parameter around the campus would greatly reduce the chances of students roaming around campus.i wouldnt let the students out of class and sent to the slaughter.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 16, 2007, 03:11:58 PM
They didn't have to lock down.  But cancelling classes might have been a good idea.  You have a dead body on campus with a bullet hole in it, another person critically wounded, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THE SHOOTER IS, and you allow classes to go on.

IMO, that is a mistake.

I agree.  They had an obligation to allow as few people as possible into harm's way.

Not knowing who the shooter was, much less where he was meant that they should've immediately cancelled all classes and school business, at a minimum. 

Two people had already been shot and there was no gunman in custody.  Even if they couldn't conceive of a massacre like this resulting, they should've at least been thinking that there was an armed and dangerous perp out there who might be looking to take hostages. 

Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 16, 2007, 03:14:40 PM
Cancelling classes does nothing when 11,000 incoming students still go to their classes and could get mowed down, even if the buildings were locked.  Also, if you recall at UT, the killer was shooting at targets in open grass, which could have been done here, but with possibly less casualties.

The object is to have as few live bodies there as possible.  Cancelling classes might've kept thousands of people away. 

Even though all of them were in no direct danger from the gunman, that sheer mass of people and cars made it more difficult for cops and rescue personnel to do their jobs. 
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 16, 2007, 03:16:04 PM

If the trouble starts at 10am, you're screwed.

But because it started at 7am and wasn't resumed until 2-1/2 hours later, there was certainly time to minimize the carnage. 
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 16, 2007, 03:21:22 PM
Cancelling classes does nothing when 11,000 incoming students still go to their classes and could get mowed down, even if the buildings were locked.

Bullshit.  If they had told everyone to lock their doors at 7:30, while this jerk was filling clips in his dorm, you wouldn't have had classrooms full of people, you would have had locked dorm rooms full of kids with baseball bats and golf clubs.  You would not have had 60 kids open their doors after hearing shots next door. 



Cancelling classes does nothing when 11,000 incoming students still go to their classes and could get mowed down, even if the buildings were locked.

UT shooter used a rifle.

Today's prick had a 9 and a .22

He wouldn't have killed ten people outdoors.  Indoors, he had them chained in, and could keep firing at them in trapped close range.  outdoors, using small caliber handguns to hit scrambling targets is damn hard.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 16, 2007, 03:24:20 PM
cap86,

please improve your grasp of situational awareness and CQB. 
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 16, 2007, 03:33:16 PM

If he only had 2 handguns, why wasn't this terrorist bum-rushed??
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: sgt. d on April 16, 2007, 03:34:00 PM
This is really sad. I wonder what race this guy was that did all the shooting. Well like all the shootings that happens at schools and work places are mostly, if not all, done by _____.Cant they understand that bullets hurt people. This is not a video game or a movie.



sgt. d
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: sgt. d on April 16, 2007, 03:38:11 PM
The police are idiots. The college should have been on locked down that early morning. Classes should have been canceled for that day.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Cap on April 16, 2007, 03:42:42 PM
Bullshit.  If they had told everyone to lock their doors at 7:30, while this jerk was filling clips in his dorm, you wouldn't have had classrooms full of people, you would have had locked dorm rooms full of kids with baseball bats and golf clubs.  You would not have had 60 kids open their doors after hearing shots next door. 



UT shooter used a rifle.

Today's prick had a 9 and a .22

He wouldn't have killed ten people outdoors.  Indoors, he had them chained in, and could keep firing at them in trapped close range.  outdoors, using small caliber handguns to hit scrambling targets is damn hard.
Thanks for telling me stuff I already knew dickhead.  Like I said, if people coming on campus had no knowledge of this and the kid went outside in an open field he could have easily capped people, maybe not 30 but I would say at least 5-10 before getting shot.  Remember he was completely off campus.  My point with UT is not about rifles ya douche, it was about how despite being outside you can still kill people. 

BTW, wtf does this have to do with CQB?  Do you even know what that means? What it entails?  Have you ever trained for it besides playing HALO while staying at home all day?  Seriously, I schooled you in military knowledge before, don't start this again pal.

The police are idiots. The college should have been on locked down that early morning. Classes should have been canceled for that day.
You and 240 don't get it.  Unless you cut off all entrances and exits, tell everybody in the dorm not to come out and position a roving officer on every floor to ensure the shooter isn't walking ANY halls, then this guy could have easily gone on to kill more people.  This isn't a high school of 1000-5000.  It is a university of 25000 with many off campus students ariving throughout the day.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 16, 2007, 03:53:29 PM
This is really sad. I wonder what race this guy was that did all the shooting. Well like all the shootings that happens at schools and work places are mostly, if not all, done by _____.Cant they understand that bullets hurt people. This is not a video game or a movie.

Rumor has it that he was Asian, not White.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 24KT on April 16, 2007, 03:53:57 PM
All I know is that in bad weather, where there is the decision to close schools, the information is dispensed with great efficiency. If at 7:15 when the first 2 shootings occurred, the decision had been made to cancell classes, I have no doubt they could have gotten the word out.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: body88 on April 16, 2007, 03:55:05 PM
This is really sad. I wonder what race this guy was that did all the shooting. Well like all the shootings that happens at schools and work places are mostly, if not all, done by _____.Cant they understand that bullets hurt people. This is not a video game or a movie.



sgt. d


He was Asian. Now stop trying to trivialize the death of 33 innocent kids you pile of waste.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: CQ on April 16, 2007, 03:56:22 PM
This is really sad. I wonder what race this guy was that did all the shooting. Well like all the shootings that happens at schools and work places are mostly, if not all, done by _____.Cant they understand that bullets hurt people. This is not a video game or a movie.



sgt. d


I mean no disprespect to the victims, and my thoughts are with all affected here, but a point I have made many times before if the criminal in this case was of a ....certain racial persuasion.....we would have racist threads all over the board slamming all people of that race. That is a trend here, and has been for years.  As of yet, I see not one racial thread about it [which is good of course] if it was someone of that racial persuasion to which I refer...we would have nothing less than 25 by now, mark my words.

Again, no disrespect to any of the victims or families here, and to clarify I don't give a crap the race of the shooter [or anyone for that matter] - just pointing out a fact.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 16, 2007, 04:14:29 PM
If he only had 2 handguns, why wasn't this terrorist bum-rushed??

I listened to NPR today, they had a lot of kids call in.

It seems when he entered the classrooms, everyone hit the floor and hid their faces.

If it had happened on an airplane, the kid would have been tackled by everyone in sight.  But in the classroom, you had 30+ strong, healthy 20-year olds quivering while this prick fumbled his way thru reloading his .22
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: youandme on April 16, 2007, 04:18:09 PM
He walked into a classroom and said "Herrow.... goodbye" jaejonna
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 16, 2007, 04:38:44 PM
I listened to NPR today, they had a lot of kids call in.

It seems when he entered the classrooms, everyone hit the floor and hid their faces.

If it had happened on an airplane, the kid would have been tackled by everyone in sight.  But in the classroom, you had 30+ strong, healthy 20-year olds quivering while this prick fumbled his way thru reloading his .22

Understand ducking for cover initially, but c'mon now, this is Virginia-fucking-Tech...there had to be at least ONE hero in the group.  Even while seeking shelter, someone should've been able to recognize "now's our chance" and jumped that fool during one of his reloads.

Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: body88 on April 16, 2007, 04:41:15 PM
Understand ducking for cover initially, but c'mon now, this is Virginia-fucking-Tech...there had to be at least ONE hero in the group.  Even while seeking shelter, someone should've been able to recognize "now's our chance" and jumped that fool during one of his reloads.



A young woman who was in the classroom just stated that she and the 4 people that lived in the classroom held the door shut and kept the shooter out of the class room after he left for the second time. That was after she laid in a puddle of her fellow students blood while playing dead of course.

Not sure how you guys expect a classroom full of 20 year old's taking a German class to be anything but in shock when a random guy walks in and starts killing everyone at 10am. The student said he stood at the door and fired into the classroom. Unless someone has a gun there was not much they could do obviously. If a person is standing at a classroom door firing into the seating you are pretty much fucked.

Easy to be a Monday morning QB after it is all said and done. its true tho, im sure if a getbigger was there they would have dodged several bullets, and severed the shooters head with a pencil, saving everyones life in the process.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 16, 2007, 04:47:40 PM
Understand ducking for cover initially, but c'mon now, this is Virginia-fucking-Tech...there had to be at least ONE hero in the group.  Even while seeking shelter, someone should've been able to recognize "now's our chance" and jumped that fool during one of his reloads.

I agree.  But people were scared sheep on 9/11, and it took a 9/11 for them to realize that when people start stabbing on a plane, you use your shoes, pencils, laptops, or anything else as a weapon to ensure you don't end up on the 90th floor of a very tall building.

Perhaps when the next prick tries this, kids will remember VT and at the very least throw a few books while hightailing it for a window, even if they don't jump the guy.


One noteworthy thing is that after columbine, there were several small incidents in the year or two afterwards - and in those cases, the shooters were disarmed quickly by a group who had columbine in their minds.  Today's college freshmen were in 5th grade when Columbine happened.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: body88 on April 16, 2007, 04:50:37 PM
I agree.  But people were scared sheep on 9/11, and it took a 9/11 for them to realize that when people start stabbing on a plane, you use your shoes, pencils, laptops, or anything else as a weapon to ensure you don't end up on the 90th floor of a very tall building.

Perhaps when the next prick tries this, kids will remember VT and at the very least throw a few books while hightailing it for a window, even if they don't jump the guy.


One noteworthy thing is that after columbine, there were several small incidents in the year or two afterwards - and in those cases, the shooters were disarmed quickly by a group who had columbine in their minds.  Today's college freshmen were in 5th grade when Columbine happened.

A girl who was in the classroom said the shooter stood at the door firing into the seating. If they ran at the guy to jump him wouldn't they get shot? Pretty much would mean running directly into the line of fire. Pretty unreasonable to expect these kids to be anything but in total shock. A mass murder at 10 am out of the blue is not a common thing. There was 29 kids in the classroom if 24 where killed and 4 lived including the girl who told the horrific story. How many where women?

She said she and the only 4 survivors held the door shut when he tried to come back in for a third time to kill them. I know how hard it is to react to a car swerving into your lane out of the blue. Imagine a guy standing at the door murdering everyone in the class room with a gun.

I feel so bad for these kids. To sit there and know you are going to die, just awful. I don't know maybe I'm to pissed off about this to talk about it objectively.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 16, 2007, 05:00:49 PM
A girl who was in the classroom said the shooter stood at the door firing into the seating. If they ran at the guy to "jump" him wouldn't they get shot? Pretty much would mean running directly into the line of fire. Pretty unreasonable to expect these kids to be anything but in total shock. A mass murder at 10 am out of the blue is not a common thing. There was 29 kids in the classroom if 24 where killed and 4 lived including the girl who told the horrific story. How many where women?

She said she and the only 4 survivors held the door shut when he tried to come back in for a third time to kill them. I know how hard it is to react to a car swerving into your lane out of the blue. Imagine a guy standing at the door murdering everyone in the class room with a gun.

I feel so bad for these kids. To sit there and know you are going to die, just awful..............

I admit I'm a bit of a paranoid militant type :P but I think after the first person died and I realized I was seconds from checking out, I would have thrown desks, chairs, bodies, books, pencils, anything.

I do feel horrible for them.  That school should have been shut down at 7:30 AM
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 16, 2007, 05:01:32 PM

"We have to charge him!  He can't shoot us all unless we stay in place like sitting ducks!"

Every classroom needs 2 doors.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: body88 on April 16, 2007, 05:10:38 PM
I admit I'm a bit of a paranoid militant type :P but I think after the first person died and I realized I was seconds from checking out, I would have thrown desks, chairs, bodies, books, pencils, anything.

I do feel horrible for them.  That school should have been shut down at 7:30 AM

Agree 100 percent. There is going to be hell to pay for that.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: ribonucleic on April 16, 2007, 05:12:28 PM
I'm making no effort to follow the "emerging details" of this story. You mean to tell me he stood in the doorway and shot them one by one?

Making all due allowances for shock and the embarrassment of having soiled myself, I still have to think that if I'm alive when he stops to reload, I'll charge him and take my chances.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 24KT on April 16, 2007, 05:15:26 PM
Hell Ya!!!!  :o
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: body88 on April 16, 2007, 05:25:21 PM
I'm making no effort to follow the "emerging details" of this story. You mean to tell me he stood in the doorway and shot them one by one?

Making all due allowances for shock and the embarrassment of having soiled myself, I still have to think that if I'm alive when he stops to reload, I'll charge him and take my chances.

The girl said he stood in the door and started shooting. She then said he ran out of the room and came back in when he heard people talking and killed all but four people. She said she was playing dead (which saved her)The class was a german course. No idea the percentage of females in the class. My guess was most the students where in total shock when they watched there fellow students being shot in the head out of the blue. If he had large clips he could have had as many as 19 rounds in each gun. 25 students, 38 rounds. 

According to the way the woman told the story, he killed a large amount of people then left the room totally. He then returned a few min later and killed more people when he heard voices. The third time they held the door shut while he shot into the door. The girl was talking about seeing some of the worst things you could ever imagine in the room. She also talked about laying in her fellow students blood playing dead.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: ribonucleic on April 16, 2007, 05:29:22 PM
She said she was playing dead (which saved her)The class was a german course.

No comment.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: body88 on April 16, 2007, 05:31:07 PM
No comment.

You might be able to catch the interview on cnn. It is very chilling/sad.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: ribonucleic on April 16, 2007, 05:39:01 PM
I guess there's no denying it's their "beat". But somehow, the idea of the campus newspaper working this story seems distasteful to me.

I mean there can't be one of them who - in addition to their shock, grief, etc - aren't thinking, "Damn, this is going to look amazing on my resume."
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on April 16, 2007, 05:40:07 PM
he was Azn, he probably logged on and hacked their warning systems between the shootings
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Camel Jockey on April 16, 2007, 05:55:26 PM
he was Azn, he probably logged on and hacked their warning systems between the shootings

LOL and probably played some warcraft as well.  ;D
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 16, 2007, 05:57:20 PM
The class was a german course.

Ah, so he was set off by the recent dialogue between Al Sharpton and Germany.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: body88 on April 16, 2007, 05:59:18 PM
Ah, so he was set off by the recent dialogue between Al Sharpton and Germany.

Frekin Al Sharpton  >:(
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 16, 2007, 06:00:33 PM
I guess there's no denying it's their "beat". But somehow, the idea of the campus newspaper working this story seems distasteful to me.

I mean there can't be one of them who - in addition to their shock, grief, etc - aren't thinking, "Damn, this is going to look amazing on my resume."

Well, the lady on Fox news asked the campus reporter, "What's the front page going to look like tomorrow" and his reply was that they'd already decided to expand to 16 pages from their usual 8-12 pages in order to get the story covered from as many angles as possible, which included speaking with local businesses about the effect this might have on them.  

I can't help but think that at least 30-35% of people nationwide are interested in seeing actual photos and video of the carnage.  
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: ribonucleic on April 16, 2007, 06:11:47 PM
included speaking with local businesses about the effect this might have on them. 

<< Phil Thompson, the manager of Bowl-Mor Lanes on DeKalb Avenue, reports that fewer people than expected turned out for Monday night's 2-for-1 shoe rental promotion. "This has just been a terrible event all around." >>
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: blinky on April 16, 2007, 10:28:51 PM
Thanks for telling me stuff I already knew dickhead.  Like I said, if people coming on campus had no knowledge of this and the kid went outside in an open field he could have easily capped people, maybe not 30 but I would say at least 5-10 before getting shot.  Remember he was completely off campus.  My point with UT is not about rifles ya douche, it was about how despite being outside you can still kill people. 

BTW, wtf does this have to do with CQB?  Do you even know what that means? What it entails?  Have you ever trained for it besides playing HALO while staying at home all day?  Seriously, I schooled you in military knowledge before, don't start this again pal.
 You and 240 don't get it.  Unless you cut off all entrances and exits, tell everybody in the dorm not to come out and position a roving officer on every floor to ensure the shooter isn't walking ANY halls, then this guy could have easily gone on to kill more people.  This isn't a high school of 1000-5000.  It is a university of 25000 with many off campus students ariving throughout the day.

i gotta agree with cap here...with upwards of 14,000 people already on route, cancelling classes and locking the buildings really wouldnt have done much good. these people still would have arrived there and been walking around the campus.
and how safe would it be to lock the buildings when you dont know where the shooter is...he could have been in one of the buildings.
there was no real way to stop the students from showing up


just my thoughts..right or wrong

im sure some sort of plan will be made in the coming weeks to deal with something like this if (god forbid) it should happen again
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: blinky on April 16, 2007, 10:47:51 PM
im seeing people saying "why didnt the kids rush him at some point to stop him"

are you kidding me!! its easy to say this shit after its all done and it wasnt you involved. and yes youre mad and wish something would have been done to stop it sooner.

imagine sitting in class listening to your teacher like you do every day and all of a sudden some guy comes in and starts shooting kids right infront of you..... instinct will tell you to survive( run,hide,). your seeing people get shot and killed right infront of you. last thing you wanna do is run at the guy who has guns and is trying to kill everyone in the room.

someone said well why not do it while he was reloading or throw stuff at him. one of the kids who was in the class said that the shooter knew what he was doing and was very quick in reloading. and im sure if you started throwing shit at him you would be the next target.

until you have been in a situation where you are being shot at(and arent military trained) you wont understand that what these kids did was instinct and correct.

and yes i can speak on this cause i have been shot at
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: sandycoosworth on April 17, 2007, 12:50:02 AM
31 civilain kills?





























they could us this guy in iraq
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: sgt. d on April 17, 2007, 05:09:27 AM
Rumor has it that he was Asian, not White.

Did I say he was white?
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: sgt. d on April 17, 2007, 05:10:18 AM
He was Asian. Now stop trying to trivialize the death of 33 innocent kids you pile of waste.

Did I say what race he was?
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: sgt. d on April 17, 2007, 05:12:36 AM
I mean no disprespect to the victims, and my thoughts are with all affected here, but a point I have made many times before if the criminal in this case was of a ....certain racial persuasion.....we would have racist threads all over the board slamming all people of that race. That is a trend here, and has been for years.  As of yet, I see not one racial thread about it [which is good of course] if it was someone of that racial persuasion to which I refer...we would have nothing less than 25 by now, mark my words.

Again, no disrespect to any of the victims or families here, and to clarify I don't give a crap the race of the shooter [or anyone for that matter] - just pointing out a fact.

I agree although the police did a very poor job.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: sgt. d on April 17, 2007, 05:16:00 AM
I admit I'm a bit of a paranoid militant type :P but I think after the first person died and I realized I was seconds from checking out, I would have thrown desks, chairs, bodies, books, pencils, anything.

I do feel horrible for them.  That school should have been shut down at 7:30 AM

I actually agree with 240 on this one.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Cap on April 17, 2007, 06:44:38 AM
im seeing people saying "why didnt the kids rush him at some point to stop him"

are you kidding me!! its easy to say this shit after its all done and it wasnt you involved. and yes youre mad and wish something would have been done to stop it sooner.

imagine sitting in class listening to your teacher like you do every day and all of a sudden some guy comes in and starts shooting kids right infront of you..... instinct will tell you to survive( run,hide,). your seeing people get shot and killed right infront of you. last thing you wanna do is run at the guy who has guns and is trying to kill everyone in the room.

someone said well why not do it while he was reloading or throw stuff at him. one of the kids who was in the class said that the shooter knew what he was doing and was very quick in reloading. and im sure if you started throwing shit at him you would be the next target.

until you have been in a situation where you are being shot at(and arent military trained) you wont understand that what these kids did was instinct and correct.

and yes i can speak on this cause i have been shot at
So true.  I'm trained at shooting and fighting but it doesn't take more than a second or two to reload a 9mm beretta and if you have to come from behind cover to get him, you are toast.  You would have to come from behind and knife him and I guarantee all the hard asses on here would have been running outside, not finding a knife to shove through this guy's windpipe.  Just my thoughts
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 17, 2007, 07:09:02 AM
NO, NO, NO.

Seriously.

If they had closed campus for the day at 7:15 AM, word would have travelled.

Those kids who DID arrive for 9 AM classes would have found a locked door and returned to their car.

When the A-hole showed up at 9:30 to begin capping people, it would have been slim pickings.  he could have walked to the dorms, and tried getting kids to open their doors (however by then, the announcement system should have been telling them for 2 hours that a double-murder had occurred and they had no idea where the shooter is - so don't answer your door.  Or he could have stood in the parking lot, and taken potshots at cars entering - which would have got him run over, arrested, or fired back at, pretty quickly.

Either way, it is ABSOLUTELY true that a closed engineering building would have resulted in those 60 people not being trapped in classrooms. The numbers should have fallen as a result.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Tre on April 17, 2007, 07:51:09 AM
i gotta agree with cap here...with upwards of 14,000 people already on route, cancelling classes and locking the buildings really wouldnt have done much good. these people still would have arrived there and been walking around the campus.
and how safe would it be to lock the buildings when you dont know where the shooter is...he could have been in one of the buildings.
there was no real way to stop the students from showing up


just my thoughts..right or wrong

im sure some sort of plan will be made in the coming weeks to deal with something like this if (god forbid) it should happen again

When there's a suspected chemical spill on a major university campus, they can have all the entrances sealed within 15-20 minutes so that any vehicular traffic is directed away from the campus and no one is allowed on. 

IF this had happened at noon, I agree that nothing could've been done.  But the fact that it started at 7am and no authorities did anything...that only compounds the already tremendous tragedy.  Their rationale is that they believed it was a 'domestic disturbance' and thus was an isolated incident.

What they had was a double homicide and a maniac on the loose with a gun!! 

What part of that does NOT call for immediate and extreme action?

Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Cap on April 17, 2007, 01:53:07 PM
NO, NO, NO.

Seriously.

If they had closed campus for the day at 7:15 AM, word would have travelled.

Those kids who DID arrive for 9 AM classes would have found a locked door and returned to their car.

When the A-hole showed up at 9:30 to begin capping people, it would have been slim pickings.  he could have walked to the dorms, and tried getting kids to open their doors (however by then, the announcement system should have been telling them for 2 hours that a double-murder had occurred and they had no idea where the shooter is - so don't answer your door.  Or he could have stood in the parking lot, and taken potshots at cars entering - which would have got him run over, arrested, or fired back at, pretty quickly.

Either way, it is ABSOLUTELY true that a closed engineering building would have resulted in those 60 people not being trapped in classrooms. The numbers should have fallen as a result.

2 things:

1.) How do you tell 14, 000 students what is going on?  Obviously the EMAIL they sent didn't work.

2.) your point is flawed because it would not have prevented further deaths, maybe a larger number but NOT ALL.  He could have still gotten at least 5-10 more.  Hope that helps. 
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: sgt. d on April 17, 2007, 02:31:45 PM
2 things:

1.) How do you tell 14, 000 students what is going on?  Obviously the EMAIL they sent didn't work.

2.) your point is flawed because it would not have prevented further deaths, maybe a larger number but NOT ALL.  He could have still gotten at least 5-10 more.  Hope that helps. 

Even though I dislike 240, he is right on this one. Sorry cap86 you are wrong.

Hope this helps
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: sgt. d on April 17, 2007, 02:32:49 PM
Frekin Al Sharpton  >:(

Al Sharpton is a great man.  :)
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Cap on April 17, 2007, 02:49:44 PM
Even though I dislike 240, he is right on this one. Sorry cap86 you are wrong.

Hope this helps
Hmmmm....ask any college student/professor and they will tell you the same thing.  The school is too big and anyone carrying two pistols could walk around campus and off people.  If you don't understand that then you have a problem.  Couple this with the fact that they thought they had the suspect, they did not need to shut down the entire campus nor did they think they had a reason to.  Let me put this in LE terms for ya'll.  If you have a suspect in custody for questioning or even an idea of who did it, you are not going to shut down buildings a mile away.  Let me make this clear, people would still have been killed.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 17, 2007, 04:05:19 PM
2 things:

1.) How do you tell 14, 000 students what is going on?  Obviously the EMAIL they sent didn't work.

2.) your point is flawed because it would not have prevented further deaths, maybe a larger number but NOT ALL.  He could have still gotten at least 5-10 more.  Hope that helps. 

If a 2-hour warning would have prevented ONE STUDENT from coming to that building, then it would have been a good idea.  That cannot be argued.

And the majority of those kids in the 9 AM class, were at home (presumably with email access or with EARS).  If a 7:45 warning would have told everyone to just sit tight and be careful of a gunman - and those classroom doors had been locked - LESS students would have died.

Obviously you're not going to stop a madman from killing SOME.  But LESSENING the number of lives lost is the goal here. 


And I have been in school many times when school was cancelled - words travels like lightning.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Cap on April 17, 2007, 04:56:35 PM
If a 2-hour warning would have prevented ONE STUDENT from coming to that building, then it would have been a good idea.  That cannot be argued.

And the majority of those kids in the 9 AM class, were at home (presumably with email access or with EARS).  If a 7:45 warning would have told everyone to just sit tight and be careful of a gunman - and those classroom doors had been locked - LESS students would have died.

Obviously you're not going to stop a madman from killing SOME.  But LESSENING the number of lives lost is the goal here. 


And I have been in school many times when school was cancelled - words travels like lightning.
I don't think we disagree as we said essentially the same thing but I am looking at it from a glass is half empty approach.  To my knowledge they did send out an email and it didn't do too much.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: sgt. d on April 17, 2007, 05:42:43 PM
Hmmmm....ask any college student/professor and they will tell you the same thing.  The school is too big and anyone carrying two pistols could walk around campus and off people.  If you don't understand that then you have a problem.  Couple this with the fact that they thought they had the suspect, they did not need to shut down the entire campus nor did they think they had a reason to.  Let me put this in LE terms for ya'll.  If you have a suspect in custody for questioning or even an idea of who did it, you are not going to shut down buildings a mile away.  Let me make this clear, people would still have been killed.

lol like they are trained for this purpose ???

I hope your not in the military or received any law enforcement training.

I bet if a person robbed a bank, and took hostages you would continue to let customers go in. O yes, you can go in and make a quick withdrawal from the ATM but be very very quiet so the gunman wont see you. ::)
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Cap on April 17, 2007, 05:58:23 PM
lol like they are trained for this purpose ???

I hope your not in the military or received any law enforcement training.

I bet if a person robbed a bank, and took hostages you would continue to let customers go in. O yes, you can go in and make a quick withdrawal from the ATM but be very very quiet so the gunman wont see you. ::)
Yea, very similar situation.   ::)  If I had a crime scene in one location, I would not expect to later have one a mile away.  They were investigating a crime scene and in reality, locking the school down could have locked the shooter in the dorms to still get in a shootout or in the building where he shot people.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 240 is Back on April 17, 2007, 09:44:11 PM
they sent it out at 9:36 AM I believe.

that is waiting just too long. 
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 24KT on April 17, 2007, 11:02:04 PM
they sent it out at 9:36 AM I believe.

that is waiting just too long. 

Virginia Tech Shooting Timeline: Emails Link Bloody Details
Tuesday April 17, 2007


Hindsight may be 20/20, but the day after the worst school shooting in North American history, the vision of what happened at Virginia Tech is still a little fuzzy.

Here's an approximate timeline of the events as police and university officials have been able to recreate them.

7:15am

Monday morning dawns with students getting up early to head to class.

At the West Amber Johnston co-ed dorm, home to 895 students, there's some kind of incident, and shots are fired. Police are called and find two people dead. They conclude it was an isolated domestic dispute and that the danger is over.

8am

The doors of Norris Hall open for the day, as students enter the engineering building to go to class. Nothing seems out of the ordinary.

9:26am

With many students unaware of the violence in their midst, word of the dorm shooting comes in a widely distributed email that's received across the campus.

"Subject: Shooting on campus," the header reads.

"A shooting incident occurred at West Amber Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating.

"The university community is urged to be cautious and are asked to contact Virginia Tech Police if you observe anything suspicious or with information on the case. Contact Virginia Tech Police at 231-6411.

"Stay attuned to the http://www.vt.edu/ . We will post as soon as we have more information."

As far as authorities are concerned, whoever fired the shots has escaped the sprawling grounds of the university and is gone. It is now a police matter and officials decide it's safe for classes to continue.

9:45am

It's now more than two hours after the initial shooting and the lines at the Blacksburg, Va. 911 outpost light up en masse. Panicked students call on their cell phones to tell authorities a man has come to Norris Hall and begun randomly firing weapons at people inside.

His first target is a professor in one of the classrooms. He then turns his weapons on the stunned students.

9:50am

Police stop a man they describe as a 'person of interest' in the dorm shooting. "That individual was an acquaintance of the female victim killed at West Amber Johnston Hall," explains Police Chief Wendell Flinchum. "He was stopped and detained for questioning. As officers were interviewing him, the shootings at Norris Hall were reported. We're still looking to him for information as the investigation continues."

9:55am

A second email is sent out by university brass. This one is far more terse and a lot more chilling.

"Subject: Please stay put," it begins.

"A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows."

10am

Within minutes of the second email, the university starts phoning resident advisers and asking them to knock on the doors of classrooms and dorm rooms, to spread the word about the danger faster.

But the campus is huge - some 1,050 hectares in length, described by one official as the size of a small city - and getting to everyone in such a busy environment over such a wide area is almost impossible.

While all this is going on, a gunman continues to blaze away in Norris Hall, picking off victims one at a time in rapid succession. His motive remains unknown, but his methodical task is succeeding all too well. Dozens lie either dead or seriously wounded. 

10:05am

Students trying to escape the carnage find chains on some doors, closing off their only escape routes. As the killer approaches, many break open windows or kick out screens, jumping several storeys to the ground in desperation, preferring broken limbs to the possibility of being gunned down.

10:16am

The University sends out a third email.

"Subject: All Classes Canceled; Stay where you are.

"Virginia Tech has canceled all classes. Those on campus are asked to remain where there are, lock their doors and stay away from windows. Persons off campus are asked not to come to campus."

Police are on scene, hustling shocked students off the property and away from the area, still unsure what they're dealing with.

Many are told to enter unaffected buildings and wait for the all-clear signal. Others are simply shooed off campus altogether. No one else is allowed on the premises.

As TV stations, networks and the web pick up the story, word starts spreading quickly - there has been a massacre at Norris Hall.

10:52am

The fourth and final email comes out of Virginia Tech's administration office. By now, just about everyone knows the worst has happened, as ambulances and police cars occupy the campus around the classroom building.

The email contains some details that would later prove to be false, but was based on the best information available as confusion swirled.

"Subject: Second Shooting Reported; Police have one gunman in custody

"In addition to an earlier shooting today in West Ambler Johnston, there has been a multiple shooting with multiple victims in Norris Hall.

"Police and EMS are on the scene.

"Police have one shooter in custody and as part of routine police procedure, they continue to search for a second shooter.

"All people in university buildings are required to stay inside until further notice.

"All entrances to campus are closed."

10:55am

First reports indicate 22 are dead and at least that number are injured.

But as the afternoon goes on, the scope of the tragedy escalates. The death toll rises to first 29, then 30, and finally settles at 32. The number of injured sits at around 15.

A doctor at one of the local hospitals indicates the gunman was extreme in his cruelty. He fired at least three bullets into every single victim, and all the wounded patients he examined were suffering from some kind of gun related injury.

"There were leg, arm, head, face (injuries), the more critical ones actually had head or facial shots. There were chest shots, leg shots, arm shots. He was just shooting to kill," relates ER physician Dr. Joseph Cacioppo.

11am

It has been more than three and a half hours after the initial shooting, when Norris Hall finally falls silent. The gunman saved his final bullet for himself, leaving the final bloody toll at 33.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Colossus_500 on April 18, 2007, 01:11:34 PM
they sent it out at 9:36 AM I believe.

that is waiting just too long. 
It's very easy to sit back and play "armchair quarterback" on the whole situation. 
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: OzmO on April 18, 2007, 01:36:12 PM
It's very easy to sit back and play "armchair quarterback" on the whole situation. 

Yes, C-500, it's very similar to how some people play armchair quarterback when analyzing 9/11.   

It's easy to point out mistakes when you have all the info and are not int he heat of the battle.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: 24KT on April 18, 2007, 01:45:12 PM
Yes, C-500, it's very similar to how some people play armchair quarterback when analyzing 9/11.   

It's easy to point out mistakes when you have all the info and are not int he heat of the battle.

Hardly a fair comparison Ozmo. We clearly don't have all the facts surrounding 911.
That's why there needs to be a new and thorough investigation.  :)  Hi Rob.  :-*
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: OzmO on April 18, 2007, 01:55:18 PM
Hardly a fair comparison Ozmo. We clearly don't have all the facts surrounding 911.
That's why there needs to be a new and thorough investigation.  :)  Hi Rob.  :-*

Oh i agree very much about needing a new investigation and even a third one too.


I was referring to some of the time line criticisms of the FAA.

It's hard to know what was going through peple heads as they made decisions and easy to criticize them.
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Dos Equis on April 19, 2007, 10:31:46 AM
It's very easy to sit back and play "armchair quarterback" on the whole situation. 

True. 

I have to say though, the thing that really concerns me is why students were still sitting in class hours after the first shootings.  I know the campus is 26,000 acres, but if I'm the parent of a child who was killed in the second shootings I'd want some answers. 
Title: Re: Gunman incident on Virginia Tech campus
Post by: Colossus_500 on April 19, 2007, 02:08:00 PM
True. 

I have to say though, the thing that really concerns me is why students were still sitting in class hours after the first shootings.  I know the campus is 26,000 acres, but if I'm the parent of a child who was killed in the second shootings I'd want some answers. 
I agree, Beach.  But it's one thing to say "you should have" compared to asking "what was your plan?"  What we're hearing from the media right now is "Tech officials shoulda...coulda....woul da...."