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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: thewickedtruth on May 10, 2007, 06:41:38 AM
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the damn tape hasn't moved. I still have one right at 18" and one at 17 and 1/2" and compared to the rest of me, they're twigs. I've found a great formula for everything else and have still yet to peg what my arms need. I change the exercises, I use big weight, use 10 or more reps unless I fail out, moved where they are in the workouts, everything. I'm out of ideas.
Should I move them to their own day and try supersetting? they get hit twice a week but each muscle group gets at least 4 days rest before attacked again. When I'm gaining strength but not size, is that indicative of not enough food in my system?
I'm just at a loss...
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You say you use big weights but have you tried REALLY big weights, as in 4-6 reps? Might be what you need, when I get stuck at a plateau I find this helps, especially for biceps. Are your triceps lagging too?
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the damn tape hasn't moved. I still have one right at 18" and one at 17 and 1/2" and compared to the rest of me, they're twigs. I've found a great formula for everything else and have still yet to peg what my arms need. I change the exercises, I use big weight, use 10 or more reps unless I fail out, moved where they are in the workouts, everything. I'm out of ideas.
Should I move them to their own day and try supersetting? they get hit twice a week but each muscle group gets at least 4 days rest before attacked again. When I'm gaining strength but not size, is that indicative of not enough food in my system?
I'm just at a loss...
1-drop em to once a week
2-how many sets? Arms get alot of supplementary work with other bodyparts like back and chest so you might be overtraining them.
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yes try to put them on their own day and if you usually do heavy dips, heavy close grip bench presses etc..try to change it up and do "extreme" arm isolating exercises. machine dips, reverse one arm tricep pushdowns, one arm cable curls, machine preacher curls etc etc and really focus on contraction
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Yeah I got a pm suggestion do to heavy negatives and static holds for the next few workouts. Depends on what you mean by heavy. I'm using 70lbs for sets of 10 on dumbbell preacher curls and yes, I go all the way down and all the way up. There's no room for halfass in my training. I though maybe I could do them with 90lb or 100lb holds to failure etc. My triceps are horrible. My bi's take up half my overall arm mass but I move big weights with them as well.
My current split is
chest,tri's, shoulders
legs, calves, traps
back ,bi's, shoulders
off
repeat.
I just hate taping them and my before nad after pics all tell the same story...everything else is blowing up save my arms. I just started my first 15 weeker and am hoping this could help at least a little. I'd like 18" legit arms and 19" full blown but this might be alot of ask.
here's my arguments on the other suggestions...I did back and tri's and chest and bi's for the better part of a year. I did less sets say 4-6 each time...I worked them just once a week instead of two, etc. I actually LOST size and strength when I did that. So I'm not really keen on those ideas. Especially when I'm growing on the plan I've got save these fucking twiggy arms. So maybe going super heavy for 4-6 reps in all my bi and tri exercises for awhile might be what I need? I have a bad habit of getting into a case of the "tens" as in 10 reps for everything. I also do no more than 6 sets on either day depending on how I feel and how wrecked my arms are.
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the damn tape hasn't moved. I still have one right at 18" and one at 17 and 1/2" and compared to the rest of me, they're twigs. I've found a great formula for everything else and have still yet to peg what my arms need. I change the exercises, I use big weight, use 10 or more reps unless I fail out, moved where they are in the workouts, everything. I'm out of ideas.
Should I move them to their own day and try supersetting? they get hit twice a week but each muscle group gets at least 4 days rest before attacked again. When I'm gaining strength but not size, is that indicative of not enough food in my system?
I'm just at a loss...
I am in the exact same boat, same measurements, same lifts everything . . . When I started training, my arms were a natural plus, now they've been stuck at the same place for a long while.
I begin to wonder if there is a predetermined genetic ceiling, over which you cannot grow (without gear or HGH)? Negative thinking, I know. But is it possible?
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I am in the exact same boat, same measurements, same lifts everything . . . When I started training, my arms were a natural plus, now they've been stuck at the same place for a long while.
I begin to wonder if there is a predetermined genetic ceiling, over which you cannot grow (without gear or HGH)? Negative thinking, I know. But is it possible?
sure you can. Moving more weight forces your muscsles to grow and adapt so you'll top out EVENTUALLY but not for years...I'm using gear this go around for a longer stint for that reason. I did test and dbol last time and had good results and helped push me past a plateau I sat at for a very long time. NOW I've surpassed most people I know and haven't been on in for the better part of a year. I'm moving more weight now than ever and surpassed most of my weight goals prior to my injury awhile back. There's always ways around it. I just choose to use to get there. I'll eventually be satisfied with my size because I'm ridiculously strong anyway. Right now I'm pulling 600lbs off the rack for dead's for instance and I'm not even having the juice kick in yet. The rack does take away from it though. That extra 6" off the floor makes a world of difference. I'm close to 400lbs on the bench, etc. so I'm hoping it'll take me higher. I'm strong, just not very large. 6'@238lbs isnt' very big. I'm hoping to LOOK as strong as I am. ;D
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Consider every variable, experiment with each:
Three workouts a week or twice a week, using low 5-6 set volume with high intensity. High intensity meaning trials of each of the following separately for a while, then in combination: compound supersets, burns, negatives, rest-pause, etc. at different times for a while each, see which works. Vary the reps to 6-9 reps, and try using cables for most exercises. Vary the rest times to 1 minute max., then other times 30-40 seconds max. between sets.
Exercises: try new exercises, stick with the effective ones. Take a break from the same exercises unless they're working.
Consider any increase in protein intake frequency or quality that might help; generally it takes a 10 lb. increase to see a 1" arm increase. 5-6 meals or equivalents daily.
Try shorter rests between workouts: 2-3 days should be enough to be rid of soress.
Try GVT: use one effective exercise only per muscle 8 x 8, max. 1 minute rest between sets. Also try it using 45 second rests. After 4-5 weeks if there's no further progress change exercises.
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Try different combos involving the following variables or others that come to mind:
Three workouts a week or twice a week, using low 5-6 set volume with high intensity. High intensity meaning trials of each of the following separately for a while, then in combination: compound supersets, burns, negatives, rest-pause, etc. at different times for a while each, see which works. Vary the reps to 6-9 reps, and try using cables for most exercises. Vary the rest times to 1 minute max., then other times 30-40 seconds max. between sets.
Consider any increase in protein intake frequency or quality that might help; generally it takes a 10 lb. increase to see a 1" arm increase. 5-6 meals or equivalents daily.
Try shorter rests between workouts: 2-3 days should be enough to be rid of soress.
Try GVT: use one effective exercise only per muscle 8 x 8, max. 1 minute rest between sets. Also try it using 45 second rests. After 4-5 weeks if there's no further progress change exercises.
I think tha'ts the plan I decided to go with. We'll find out. especially in a month wether or not it's working. Even a 1/4 or 1/8" difference is progress. I know a month is slow but it's enough to be noticable. And It should be accelerated since I'm finally on and eating about 4k cals a day, 400 grams of protein, etc.
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I think tha'ts the plan I decided to go with. We'll find out. especially in a month wether or not it's working. Even a 1/4 or 1/8" difference is progress. I know a month is slow but it's enough to be noticable. And It should be accelerated since I'm finally on and eating about 4k cals a day, 400 grams of protein, etc.
As far as the exercises or trying different routines, you'll have to have the patience to hold each variable constant long enough (3-5 weeks for example) to know whether it's working, then go on to the next. Some of the variables can be overlapped. Might take 1-1.5 years or more to cycle through different possibilities.
Use protein shakes between meals.
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Eat more....an increase in bodyweight gained over time so it`s not composed mostly of fat will add some girth to the arms.
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yeah in addition to the eating i remember Palumbo saying something about guys with wide shoulders and just wide structures in general seem to have a problem with their shoulders taking over on the big mass building arm movements like bb curls, close grip benches, lying extensions and preachers and he said that when these guys switch over to all cable isolation movements for arms their arms grew, i remember Cutler saying that he had a lot of trouble building his arms at first because of his wide structure.
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IMO, you don't need more than one triceps excersise if you're training serious benchpressing.
Pick one which will give you a very full range of motion, don't worry too much about going heavy, worry more about the elbow. 8)
For biceps, I've lately been inspired by Milos Sarcev's giant set ideas. Doing several excersises with no rest in between seems logical for a muscle that has a large makeup of slow twitch fibers, like the biceps.
It means I'm going with a lower weight than usual, especially towards the end of the giant set.
Doing triceps the Milos way, will make you a worse benchpresser. But for mass building purposes, it may well be something to try.
-Hedge
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IMO, you don't need more than one triceps excersise if you're training serious benchpressing.
Pick one which will give you a very full range of motion, don't worry too much about going heavy, worry more about the elbow. 8)
For biceps, I've lately been inspired by Milos Sarcev's giant set ideas. Doing several excersises with no rest in between seems logical for a muscle that has a large makeup of slow twitch fibers, like the biceps.
It means I'm going with a lower weight than usual, especially towards the end of the giant set.
Doing triceps the Milos way, will make you a worse benchpresser. But for mass building purposes, it may well be something to try.
-Hedge
Hedge, why do you feel a milos style workout is best for mass building?
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IMO, you don't need more than one triceps excersise if you're training serious benchpressing.
Pick one which will give you a very full range of motion, don't worry too much about going heavy, worry more about the elbow. 8)
For biceps, I've lately been inspired by Milos Sarcev's giant set ideas. Doing several excersises with no rest in between seems logical for a muscle that has a large makeup of slow twitch fibers, like the biceps.
It means I'm going with a lower weight than usual, especially towards the end of the giant set.
Doing triceps the Milos way, will make you a worse benchpresser. But for mass building purposes, it may well be something to try.
-Hedge
I dont agree, milos style is bs. so is using only one exercise for triceps. self imposed limitation.
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I dont agree, milos style is bs. so is using only one exercise for triceps. self imposed limitation.
depends on your goals, like Hedge said if your goal is a bigger bench press it's stupid to do so much damage to your triceps with 10 movements back to back with no rest, your triceps would still be torn down when it came time to bench heavy but if your goal is bb'ing and you don't give a shit about what you bench just chest stimulation then by all means do the Milos giant set method.
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depends on your goals, like Hedge said if your goal is a bigger bench press it's stupid to do so much damage to your triceps with 10 movements back to back with no rest, your triceps would still be torn down when it came time to bench heavy but if your goal is bb'ing and you don't give a shit about what you bench just chest stimulation then by all means do the Milos giant set method.
i was talking about bodybuilding, if your into bodybuilding using more than one tricep exercise will give superior results in general compared to limiting yourself to just one. as for any kind of training "milos" superset/giant set method is shit. (can be used for very short periods of time tho)
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i was talking about bodybuilding, if your into bodybuilding using more than one tricep exercise will give superior results in general compared to limiting yourself to just one. as for any kind of training "milos" superset/giant set method is shit. (can be used for very short periods of time tho)
that's what i just said, it depends on your goals, Hedge was just pointing out that 4-6 different tricep movements in 90 percent of people is going to be counterproductive in building a bigger bench press, modern day benching is all about triceps strength, no triceps, no big bench but for bodybuilding obviously 4-6 different movements for 8-10 reps is ideal.
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that's what i just said, it depends on your goals, Hedge was just pointing out that 4-6 different tricep movements in 90 percent of people is going to be counterproductive in building a bigger bench press, modern day benching is all about triceps strength, no triceps, no big bench but for bodybuilding obviously 4-6 different movements for 8-10 reps is ideal.
you forgot the part about milos. milos giant set shit doesnt have enough loading with heavy enough weight, +lactic acid accumulation acts as a bottleneck
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you forgot the part about milos. milos giant set shit doesnt have enough loading with heavy enough weight, +lactic acid accumulation acts as a bottleneck
yeah, i don't think there's anything wrong with it on very rare occasions as something different but those guys Milos, Silvio, Luke, etc. are juiced to the gills with all due respect, they'll grow off of anything, but 40 pound tricep extensions and 20 pound db. kickbacks ain't gonna do shit for the normal trainee.
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yeah, i don't think there's anything wrong with it on very rare occasions as something different but those guys Milos, Silvio, Luke, etc. are juiced to the gills with all due respect, they'll grow off of anything, but 40 pound tricep extensions and 20 pound db. kickbacks ain't gonna do shit for the normal trainee.
agreed!
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I had a similar thing with my shoulders. I tried high reps / low reps, heavy weight / light weights, compound / isolation, etc., etc., etc.!!!
The one day I thought "f*ck it" and did 2 compound movements for 5 sets each, then a giant set of 6 exercises for 5 sets, plus a few static holds and negatives at the end, totalling 40+ sets (training clean).
Whaddya know, I saw my first major improvements in nearly 3 years. Try everything, and once you've done that, try everything else. Use all the routines people have suggested and you'll eventually find the one to take you over that 18" plateau.
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Another system is the oldie but goodie, Running the Rack. If you can get a whole DB rack to yourself, that is. Start with a pair of 10lb DB's for curls ( yeah, I know sissy stuff..right) and do 3 reps. Now jump to a pair of 20's and do 3 reps. Very light stuff at first and no rest at all between sets. From the 20's, jump to 30's, than 40's, etc. Probably will get to a pair of 60's (or how strong you are, plus or minus) where you might only squeeze out 1 rep. At that point, still without any rest, come back down the rack with a pair of 50's, that 40's, etc. All the way down to the original 10's. The 10's now should feel very much not like a sissy weight. On coming down the rack try for around the original 3 reps, but 1 or 2 will be OK. Take a break of about 3 to 5 minutes and Run the Rack again, the same way. Just to 2 cycles at the most. Take five or 10 minutes and than Run the Rack with DB overhead tricep extensions. Two cycles, like with the biceps. If you want a take no prisoners type of arm workout, this will do it for you.
Can also consider the GVT (10X10's) system. The same moderate weight and exercise (example...BB curl or lat pull down throughout the whole 10 sets and try for 60 seconds rest between sets.. A very old BB'ing saying is, "More blood, More muscle". This GVT system, targeted for increased arm size, will gorge the arms with an excellent pump. The same way Running the Rack will. You can work the GVT as a SS's if you wish or just the regular way. Doing the triceps first and when completed, than work the biceps.
There is also the One Day Arm program, which has worked for many men in the past and present. Even works well on the calves (and delts). So if you have quarterback calves, you might hold this one day program in mind. Good Luck.
There is the One Day arm system
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I think I'm going to try this tomorrow and see how it works out...
lying tricep barbell extensions for 3 sets of 10 with 135 *first time using a free weight version instead of the machine*
supersetted with closed grip benches for 3 sets of 10
then do cable pressdowns to failure without rest to see if that'll shock the shit out of them.
All this AFTER doing static holds at teh end of benching. What do you think?
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I think I'm going to try this tomorrow and see how it works out...
lying tricep barbell extensions for 3 sets of 10 with 135 *first time using a free weight version instead of the machine*
supersetted with closed grip benches for 3 sets of 10
then do cable pressdowns to failure without rest to see if that'll shock the shit out of them.
All this AFTER doing static holds at teh end of benching. What do you think?
This should be intense. Stick with it for 4-6 weeks and focus on increasing the reps and eventually the weight. Try the following variations:
-Lying extensions: both flat and slight decline, using either a super E-Z curl bar or triceps bar. The bar should be lowered off and below the bench, getting a full stretch. It's ok to cheat slightly at the bottom to get the weight moving.
-Bench: use an E-Z curl bar or triceps bar, and decline if possible. Lower the weight to the chest, other times lower to the top of the chest or neck and compare the effect.
-Pushdowns: try using a v or rope. Try doing 2/3 ROM, avoiding the top part, and other times make it more of a compound by flaring the elbows wide and doing the movement more like a close-grip bench.
-Try supersetting the lying extensions with the flared elbows pushdowns and doing the close-grips either before or after.
-Go to positive failure on each set, and on the last set of each exercise go beyond failure using either rest pause, cheats or partials. The reps and intensity have to go up.
-Later substitute any other compounds that are effective in place of either close-grips or pushdowns while retaining the extensions. For example dip machine, bench dips or close-grip pushups in place or either of the other two compounds.
-Also sometimes try 4 sets of each instead of 3. Try also reps of 8.
-Do the workout at least twice weekly.
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I dont agree, milos style is bs. so is using only one exercise for triceps. self imposed limitation.
If you train as a benchpresser, various forms of benchpresses will take care of most triceps work.
You only need a triceps excersise to supplement.
-Hedge
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.......on your next arm day!!
Take one exercise and do a light set,then add another exercise to it(opposing musclegroup) and Super-Set them.......... after a short rest,you then add another exercise and do a Tri-Set,then yet another, and do a Giant Set,add one more for a bigger Giant-Set after a brief rest of course,and add yet one more still for your biggest Giant-Set.
No rest between exzercises........only rest a short while after all combos are completed,then go again.
This is a sample day from my own journal............try it,it`s a monster!!
Fri. Mar. 23rd.
Triceps/Biceps,Forearms,Abs,Cardio:
Triceps/Biceps:
Skullcrushers:
70-20
Super-Set:
{Skullcrushers:
80-15
{Barbell Curls:
80-10
Tri-Set:
{Skullcrushers:
90-12
{Barbell Curls:
90-10
{One-Arm DB Extensions:
22.5-15
Giant-Set:
{Skullcrushers:
90-12
{Barbell Curls:
90-10
{One-Arm DB Extensions:
25-15
{Incline DB Curls:
25-10
Giant-Set:
{Skullcrushers:
90-12
{Barbell Curls:
90-10
{One-Arm DB Extensions:
30-12
{Incline DB Curls:
25-10
{Pressdowns:
6pl.-15
Giant-Set:
{Skullcrushers:
90-12
{Barbell Curls:
90-10
{One-Arm DB Extensions:
30-10
{Incline DB Curls:
25-10
{Pressdowns:
7pl.-12
{Cable Preacher Curls:
5pl.-10
Giant-Set:
{Skullcrushers:
90-12
{Barbell Curls:
90-10
{One-Arm DB Extensions:
25-12
{Incline DB Curls:
25-10
{Pressdowns:
6pl.-15
{Cable Preacher Curls:
3pl.-15
{Bent-Forward Cable Extensions:
7plates-20
Forearms:
Wrist Curls:
3 x 20 with 80 pounds
1 x 20 with 60 pounds
I can go much heavier,but try this and watch the weight feel like a veritable ton.
This may be more effective than all the straight out Giant-Sets Milos advocates since the volume is not as high............but it`s fucking brutal just the same if done correctly with minimal rest time.
Enjoy the pain!! :)
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I like Wes' idea.
My current bench program calls for doing 3x10, 1 set of 5 (with a weight I can do 15 reps with), 1 set of 3 reps, 1 set of 2, and drop down to do one set of 3 reps. Incline is 3 x 4-6 reps. Will that take care of triceps with maybe some dips and and an extension? I'd rather do more tricep work but who knows based on recovery.
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I like Wes' idea.
My current bench program calls for doing 3x10, 1 set of 5 (with a weight I can do 15 reps with), 1 set of 3 reps, 1 set of 2, and drop down to do one set of 3 reps. Incline is 3 x 4-6 reps. Will that take care of triceps with maybe some dips and and an extension? I'd rather do more tricep work but who knows based on recovery.
Indirect work will help, could reduce the need for direct triceps work but i still think some direct and intense work makes a difference. Some will say otherwise, that indirect's sufficient. I don't think so for a couple of reasons, one of which is that indirect doesn't guarantee sufficient work's been applied to a specific muscle, plus compounds don't necessarily hit muscles in the same areas.
Giant sets and trisets are great; however i think it's good to first start with compound supersets then after that's been done escalate to higher numbers of sets vs. going right to giant sets first.
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hi
i also have this problem. i have tried everyting for my arms. now my tri's are growing fine but my bi's are still small and look way outa proportion. ive used heavey, light, super-set, drop-set,pyramid, trainin partner for every set + exercise, and done just about every exercise i can think of. i think cause i dont have a partner i find it harder to motivate myself to keep goin. im gona try out wats been posted here and see how it goes. one thing though - wen ever i did barbell curls with heavey weight and 4-8 reps i got a pain in my forearm extensors. so i stopped and do heavey dumbbells which is diferent cause it dont really hurt forearms at all. strange. anyone any thoughts?
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hi
i also have this problem. i have tried everyting for my arms. now my tri's are growing fine but my bi's are still small and look way outa proportion. ive used heavey, light, super-set, drop-set,pyramid, trainin partner for every set + exercise, and done just about every exercise i can think of. i think cause i dont have a partner i find it harder to motivate myself to keep goin. im gona try out wats been posted here and see how it goes. one thing though - wen ever i did barbell curls with heavey weight and 4-8 reps i got a pain in my forearm extensors. so i stopped and do heavey dumbbells which is diferent cause it dont really hurt forearms at all. strange. anyone any thoughts?
What matters is feeling it in the bis, and obviously not in the forearms. Try the following, and stick with the exercise(s) that you you feel the most in the bis:
-Standing DB curls
-Seated or incline curls
-Standing cable curls
-Preacher curls - stop before the very bottom to avoid tendon strain and to stay within the stronger portion of the movement.
Also, there has to be good intensity that increases over time by increases in reps, weight or decreases in rest time between sets. Without this you're not likely to gain. Use cheats, rest-pause, etc. to improve this, no matter what.
Besides finding the most effective exercises, keep in mind that generally you have to gain about 10 lb. of "good" weight to gain on arms. Take in extra protein between meals through protein shakes, etc.
Post/answer ads online for a training partner - craigslist.org, meetup.com, etc.
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What matters is feeling it in the bis, and obviously not in the forearms. Try the following, and stick with the exercise(s) that you you feel the most in the bis:
-Standing DB curls
-Seated or incline curls
-Standing cable curls
-Preacher curls - stop before the very bottom to avoid tendon strain and to stay within the stronger portion of the movement.
Also, there has to be good intensity that increases over time by increases in reps, weight or decreases in rest time between sets. Without this you're not likely to gain. Use cheats, rest-pause, etc. to improve this, no matter what.
Besides finding the most effective exercises, keep in mind that generally you have to gain about 10 lb. of "good" weight to gain on arms. Take in extra protein between meals through protein shakes, etc.
Post/answer ads online for a training partner - craigslist.org, meetup.com, etc.
Solid shit. My bi's are beautiful unlike my tri's. Most of my almost 18" arm mass is in my bi's ;D. Best bicep advice I can give is to do alot of concentration movements and VARY the bicep exercise and change it up. Just like the back and chest, hit the biceps from all angles. I'll do heavy preacher curls (built most of my mass with it doing them as pump suggested) and then do some hammers or reverse grip curls, rope cable curls, etc. There's the two heads of the bi's and the brachi on the side. Making sure you attack it as a whole and don't just curl everything one way or the other will ensure your bi's will grow. MOVE BIG WEIGHT! I'm going to be straight with you here bro. Until you're doing seated dumbbell curls with about 60lbs,dumbbell preachers with 70lbs or better, barbells over 135, you're not going to have much arm size. IF this shit was easy, we'd all be there. Move heavy ass weight and your bi's will grow. Don't get discouraged with what I've said, use it as motivation and set your goals. The numbers I've posted in relation to arm size are just that. I've yet to see anyone that moves less than those with any arms to speak of unless they're ridiculously short and just look big.
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True; someone with good sized arms can move serious weight for moderate 6-10 reps on preachers, curls, extensions, etc. A guy i had the chance to train alongside as a kid who went on to place in the Universe did 135 lb. preachers with not a lot of effort. You have to force your way up in reps/weight no matter what it takes including cheats at the end of the set, rest-pause, etc. plus extra protein between meals.
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i remember reading a pro talk about arm size in a magazine, i can't recall who it was and he said that most arm size is built with heavy barbell rows, db rows and t bars and heavy bench presses, inclines, overhead presses, i would agree to an extent that a decent form 300 pound plus for reps barbell row and big weights with decent form on pressing movements will build good biceps and triceps size.
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i remember reading a pro talk about arm size in a magazine, i can't recall who it was and he said that most arm size is built with heavy barbell rows, db rows and t bars and heavy bench presses, inclines, overhead presses, i would agree to an extent that a decent form 300 pound plus for reps barbell row and big weights with decent form on pressing movements will build good biceps and triceps size.
It would be interesting to know which pro said that since i've never heard of any who practice it. Less necessary to do direct arm work for overall strength than for development, on the other hand amongst even WSM the guys with good arms like Mariusz include direct work. Most WSM guys are concerned only with functional strength and don't care or have good arms. Mariusz includes direct work even in workouts that already indirectly hit arms.
Mariusz training:
Wednesday:
He started with push jerks, working up to 405 for a very easy and fast two reps. He then squatted, high bar, Olympic style up to two easy, quick sets of 585 for three reps. He then did seated dumbell presses with us; 120 pounds, for ten repetitions, for five sets. I must inform you that this workout was all being done at a very fast pace. Next was curls, five sets of ten reps done on a straight bar with 135, then twenty minutes straight of abdominal work. Steve Macdonald and I were huffing and puffing trying to keep up with the weights used and the vigorous pace being set by the champ.
Thursday:
10 sets 7-10 pull-ups, and chin-ups, 5 sets of 10 lat pull-downs, 5 sets of 10 lat rows, 5 sets of 6-10 good mornings, 5 sets of ten standing triceps skull-crushers (with 155), 5 sets of ten triceps push-downs, 5 sets of deadlifting (he worked up to 655 for a few).
http://www.marunde-muscle.com/kirit.html
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A lot of the Pro's and top BB'ers can build "most" of their arm size from doing the Big Boy push/pull exercises, but for that extra inch (or so) of refined muscle size, direct arm movements are used. Though not always with a lot of sets or different exercises that you might read about in the T&A mag's. Usually brief hits on the arms . BB/DB's, cables, Scott benches, machines were all put to good use. The BB curl seems to be a standard for quite a few.
Have not seen one Pro or top BB'er do anything in the way of a full ROM strict anything for the arms (or any other body part). If a full ROM is accomplished, it's usually with a lot of body English and a cheating style. Usually the curls were mid range movement(including Scott bench and Hammer curls), never a full contraction at top or extension at the bottom of a curl. And almost every guy included the BB curl (straight or EZ bar). Reps were very fast. Most weight used on the curling bar was near or over 205+. Triceps were usually SkullCrushers (partial movements...near or over 300) and Hammer (or like) machines. Use to watch a Mid Eastern gentleman (a former high placed Mr O) hoist some amazing workout poundage, but for maybe a 1/4th to 3/4th rep range. This guy was beyond huge.
For non direct bicep and tricep work, anyone might try the BB row, with a curl grip, as an excellent bicep builder. And for the triceps, close grip BP's or the weighted dip. Good Luck.
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A lot of the Pro's and top BB'ers can build "most" of their arm size from doing the Big Boy push/pull exercises, but for that extra inch (or so) of refined muscle size, direct arm movements are used.
This is absolute speculation; please provide evidence from pros/top BBs who believe this.
What is fact is that pros have used direct arm work religiously for size, most from the beginning of their careers. I've never read of any pro making the above assumption in 3.5 decades of reading interviews/workout routines.
Quite the contrary in fact, based on the comments of Schwarzenegger ("cheat curls best for size"), Larry Scott (preachers), Coleman ("extensions best for size"), etc.
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JPM is the perfect example, him and his "training buds" built most of their prodigious internet arm mass with 2500 pound bench press lockouts and 1300 pound 1 centimeter ez bar extensions.
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I think the main concern and mistake would be the reading, for 35 years, of interviews/workout routines and actually believing it all. If any one wants to believe all that creative writing stuff about the BB'ers and how they train, than help yourself. But most of it is pure BS, as anyone with even a little knowledge of BB'ing understands. Thirty five years of eating up all that BS in the mag's and them believing it deserves pity. And than repeating it again as fact.
My offer to plan out a program for SquadFather still stands. After looking at his excellent photo's, he would not need a lot of help, but I will do what I can. By the way, I have been to the St Louis area....I feel your pain. Come to SoCal and meet my training bud's. Good luck.
Side Bar: Bet this gets pulled.
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I think the main concern and mistake would be the reading, for 35 years, of interviews/workout routines and actually believing it all. If any one wants to believe all that creative writing stuff about the BB'ers and how they train, than help yourself. But most of it is pure BS, as anyone with even a little knowledge of BB'ing understands. Thirty five years of eating up all that BS in the mag's and them believing it deserves pity. And than repeating it again as fact.
My offer to plan out a program for SquadFather still stands. After looking at his excellent photo's, he would not need a lot of help, but I will do what I can. By the way, I have been to the St Louis area....I feel your pain. Come to SoCal and meet my training bud's. Good luck.
Side Bar: Bet this gets pulled.
hahahahaha, why don't you post some pics so we can compare "jpm" or are you basically just an internet pusssy who talks a good game? if you are bigger than me i swear to God i'll give you your props, deal?
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hahahahaha, why don't you post some pics so we can compare "jpm" or are you basically just an internet pusssy who talks a good game? if you are bigger than me i swear to God i'll give you your props, deal?
hahahaah "JPM" don't worry your post won't get "pulled" because there were no insults or personal stuff this time.
BTW i also had the real priviledge of training alonside Al Beckles cousin Darcy & some of the West Indies best BBs; the Carribean was second only to Venice Beach for BB. Darcy placed in the top 3 of several Universes in the 70s, had a cut 20" arm pumped, using 135 lb. comfortably for preachers. Nothing to do with relying only on mag articles, that's yet another assumption as is the idea that every article is fiction. Interesting that they're all fictional in exactly the same way. ::)
Still waiting on any proof mags or otherwise, to back up your assumptions.
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hahahaah "JPM" don't worry your post won't get "pulled" because there were no insults or personal stuff this time.
hahahaha, i'd love to see what this mass monster looks like after pushing all that monster weight for 2 inch partials, do you think he'll post some, Pump?
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hahahaha, i'd love to see what this mass monster looks like after pushing all that monster weight for 2 inch partials, do you think he'll post some, Pump?
These are the only ones i know of so far of JPM's partials; so far still unauthorized and unconfirmed..
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hahahahahahahahahaaaaa.
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LOL you guys are brutal.
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I believe that The Pumpster stated that he was the BB'ing coach for the Bahamian team, or something to that affect, a little while back. After being called out for that, by Ice Cold and others, he did not reply. And his post was altered. Would that be different than training along side Beckles cousin or just belonging to the same gym as he? And of course that has nothing to do with interviews/programs listed in any mag. Or the fiction or truth related to them. Reading about lifting does not always make it so.
A lot of Pro & top BB'ers have built large arms through basic compound stuff. I have no sealed records to back this up. Just talking too and witnessing a lot of their training. Not 35 years, but more like 20 years at some very hard core gym's training and observing. Also talking to PL'ers with outstanding biceps/triceps. Though some of them will use extra , short range tricep movements to help their bench. They will also throw in some curls, from time to time. Not because they have too, but because they want too. If the Pumpster is trying to make a point that I stated that no top BB'er uses direct arm work, than he would be misled again. He even stated that indirect work will help & could reduce the need for direct (tricep) work. But still thinks some direct & intense work makes a difference. That is just about what I said, so I do not see the The Pumpster's need to argue the point. If confused, than it may be required for he to reread what he wrote in this thread. And what I wrote.
Quoting the SquadFather "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA", unquote. A man truly lost for words. And the words he finally finds make no sense. Seem to have an unending loathing for partial reps and any one who uses them in training. Finding it even harder to understand that most people (even him) can and do use 80 to 100lbs over their PB bench press (or most any other exercise) when applying this type of training. So if a lifter can bench, say 500lb, than using partials with 80 to 100lbs over that for short range is normal in training. Because I can and do use extra heavy weight in training, with partials (it's my genetic nature) , in some way, this seems to offend SF. Too bad, it is what it is. If he wishes to call it BS than that's his choice. I am not on any crusade to boost up and lie about any weight I may use in training. What good would that do me? I will keep anonymous as long as I post on this site. Good Luck.
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OK JPM, long-winded & fluffy, as usual.
Post routines/proof of pros who corroborate what you've claimed about indirect work, i still don't see anything. Otherwise your claim in null & void.
NO articles i've ever seen have said this, and i'm 100% sure that not all of them are fiction.
AND i've had the luck to have worked out with great BBs, all of whom did direct work with serious weight and had great arms. How could i have claimed to have been coach when i was 16 years old? LOL this is someone else's senility setting in, misinterpreting facts. Make sure to produce the link that makes that claim i'd like to see it. :D
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I believe that The Pumpster stated that he was the BB'ing coach for the Bahamian team, or something to that affect, a little while back. After being called out for that, by Ice Cold and others, he did not reply. And his post was altered. Would that be different than training along side Beckles cousin or just belonging to the same gym as he? And of course that has nothing to do with interviews/programs listed in any mag. Or the fiction or truth related to them. Reading about lifting does not always make it so.
A lot of Pro & top BB'ers have built large arms through basic compound stuff. I have no sealed records to back this up. Just talking too and witnessing a lot of their training. Not 35 years, but more like 20 years at some very hard core gym's training and observing. Also talking to PL'ers with outstanding biceps/triceps. Though some of them will use extra , short range tricep movements to help their bench. They will also throw in some curls, from time to time. Not because they have too, but because they want too. If the Pumpster is trying to make a point that I stated that no top BB'er uses direct arm work, than he would be misled again. He even stated that indirect work will help & could reduce the need for direct (tricep) work. But still thinks some direct & intense work makes a difference. That is just about what I said, so I do not see the The Pumpster's need to argue the point. If confused, than it may be required for he to reread what he wrote in this thread. And what I wrote.
Quoting the SquadFather "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA", unquote. A man truly lost for words. And the words he finally finds make no sense. Seem to have an unending loathing for partial reps and any one who uses them in training. Finding it even harder to understand that most people (even him) can and do use 80 to 100lbs over their PB bench press (or most any other exercise) when applying this type of training. So if a lifter can bench, say 500lb, than using partials with 80 to 100lbs over that for short range is normal in training. Because I can and do use extra heavy weight in training, with partials (it's my genetic nature) , in some way, this seems to offend SF. Too bad, it is what it is. If he wishes to call it BS than that's his choice. I am not on any crusade to boost up and lie about any weight I may use in training. What good would that do me? I will keep anonymous as long as I post on this site. Good Luck.
hahahaha, just what i thought, another pusssy. ;D
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My friend, The Pumpster: Because you erased it, like you had so many other of you post, when people called you outon other matters. That you were the coach, in fact, of the Bahamian Bb'ing team had been stated by you. Sixteen or 39 years old, whatever, you claimed that honor.
I can not post or reproduce any exact scheme by a Pro or top bb'er , just what I witnesses and was told by them. That's where I stand. What they may do in a gym and what is written about them, to fill magazines pages is another story all together.
Again, your missing the point that we are pretty much in agreement, from what you said about indirect work will help & could reduce the need for direct (tricep) work. Also stating, still some direct & intense work makes a difference. This we both agree upon, it's just how they got that initial size in the first place.
SquadFather: HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Good Luck to all.
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My friend, The Pumpster: Because you erased it, like you had so many other of you post, when people called you outon other matters. That you were the coach, in fact, of the Bahamian Bb'ing team had been stated by you. Sixteen or 39 years old, whatever, you claimed that honor.
I can not post or reproduce any exact scheme by a Pro or top bb'er , just what I witnesses and was told by them. That's where I stand. What they may do in a gym and what is written about them, to fill magazines pages is another story all together.
Again, your missing the point that we are pretty much in agreement, from what you said about indirect work will help & could reduce the need for direct (tricep) work. Also stating, still some direct & intense work makes a difference. This we both agree upon, it's just how they got that initial size in the first place.
SquadFather: HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Good Luck to all.
still no pictures, "big man"?
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It seems like partials would help in the size/strength department. Look at how most pros do dips or pullups, esp with weight added. Branch is the eptiome of this. His dips and squats are partials for sure and his triceps/quads are not lacking in size.