arms need help

[Hedgehog]

I dont agree, milos style is bs. so is using only one exercise for triceps. self imposed limitation.

If you train as a benchpresser, various forms of benchpresses will take care of most triceps work.

You only need a triceps excersise to supplement.

-Hedge

[wes]

.......on your next arm day!!

Take one exercise and do a light set,then add another exercise to it(opposing musclegroup) and Super-Set them.......... after a short rest,you then add another exercise and do a Tri-Set,then yet another, and do a Giant Set,add one more for a bigger Giant-Set after a brief rest of course,and add yet one more still for your biggest Giant-Set.

No rest between exzercises........only rest a short while after all combos are completed,then go again.

This is a sample day from my own journal............try it,it`s a monster!! 

Fri. Mar. 23rd.

Triceps/Biceps,Forearms,Abs,Cardio:

Triceps/Biceps:
Skullcrushers:
70-20

Super-Set:
{Skullcrushers:
80-15
{Barbell Curls:
80-10

Tri-Set:
{Skullcrushers:
90-12
{Barbell Curls:
90-10
{One-Arm DB Extensions:
22.5-15

Giant-Set:
{Skullcrushers:
90-12
{Barbell Curls:
90-10
{One-Arm DB Extensions:
25-15
{Incline DB Curls:
25-10

Giant-Set:
{Skullcrushers:
90-12
{Barbell Curls:
90-10
{One-Arm DB Extensions:
30-12
{Incline DB Curls:
25-10
{Pressdowns:
6pl.-15

Giant-Set:
{Skullcrushers:
90-12
{Barbell Curls:
90-10
{One-Arm DB Extensions:
30-10
{Incline DB Curls:
25-10
{Pressdowns:
7pl.-12
{Cable Preacher Curls:
5pl.-10

Giant-Set:
{Skullcrushers:
90-12
{Barbell Curls:
90-10
{One-Arm DB Extensions:
25-12
{Incline DB Curls:
25-10
{Pressdowns:
6pl.-15
{Cable Preacher Curls:
3pl.-15
{Bent-Forward Cable Extensions:
7plates-20

Forearms:
Wrist Curls:
3 x 20 with 80 pounds
1 x 20 with 60 pounds

I can go much heavier,but try this and watch the weight feel like a veritable ton.

This may be more effective than all the straight out Giant-Sets Milos advocates since the volume is not as high............but it`s fucking brutal just the same if done correctly with minimal rest time.

Enjoy the pain!! 

[Cap]

I like Wes' idea.

My current bench program calls for doing 3x10, 1 set of 5 (with a weight I can do 15 reps with), 1 set of 3 reps, 1 set of 2, and drop down to do one set of 3 reps.  Incline is 3 x 4-6 reps.  Will that take care of triceps with maybe some dips and and an extension?  I'd rather do more tricep work but who knows based on recovery.

[pumpster]

I like Wes' idea.

My current bench program calls for doing 3x10, 1 set of 5 (with a weight I can do 15 reps with), 1 set of 3 reps, 1 set of 2, and drop down to do one set of 3 reps.  Incline is 3 x 4-6 reps.  Will that take care of triceps with maybe some dips and and an extension?  I'd rather do more tricep work but who knows based on recovery.

Indirect work will help, could reduce the need for direct triceps work but i still think some direct and intense work makes a difference. Some will say otherwise, that indirect's sufficient. I don't think so for a couple of reasons, one of which is that indirect doesn't guarantee sufficient work's been applied to a specific muscle, plus compounds don't necessarily hit muscles in the same areas.

Giant sets and trisets are great; however i think it's good to first start with compound supersets then after that's been done escalate to higher numbers of sets vs. going right to giant sets first.

[dave-boy]

hi
i also have this problem. i have tried everyting for my arms. now my tri's are growing fine but my bi's are still small and look way outa proportion. ive used heavey, light, super-set, drop-set,pyramid, trainin partner for every set + exercise, and done just about every exercise i can think of. i think cause i dont have a partner i find it harder to motivate myself to keep goin. im gona try out wats been posted here and see how it goes. one thing though - wen ever i did barbell curls with heavey weight and 4-8 reps i got a pain in my forearm extensors. so i stopped and do heavey dumbbells which is diferent cause it dont really hurt forearms at all. strange. anyone any thoughts?

[pumpster]

hi
i also have this problem. i have tried everyting for my arms. now my tri's are growing fine but my bi's are still small and look way outa proportion. ive used heavey, light, super-set, drop-set,pyramid, trainin partner for every set + exercise, and done just about every exercise i can think of. i think cause i dont have a partner i find it harder to motivate myself to keep goin. im gona try out wats been posted here and see how it goes. one thing though - wen ever i did barbell curls with heavey weight and 4-8 reps i got a pain in my forearm extensors. so i stopped and do heavey dumbbells which is diferent cause it dont really hurt forearms at all. strange. anyone any thoughts?

What matters is feeling it in the bis, and obviously not in the forearms. Try the following, and stick with the exercise(s) that you you feel the most in the bis:

-Standing DB curls
-Seated or incline curls
-Standing cable curls
-Preacher curls - stop before the very bottom to avoid tendon strain and to stay within the stronger portion of the movement.


Also, there has to be good intensity that increases over time by increases in reps, weight or decreases in rest time between sets. Without this you're not likely to gain. Use cheats, rest-pause, etc. to improve this, no matter what.


Besides finding the most effective exercises, keep in mind that generally you have to gain about 10 lb. of "good" weight to gain on arms. Take in extra protein between meals through protein shakes, etc.

Post/answer ads online for a training partner - craigslist.org, meetup.com, etc.

[thewickedtruth]

What matters is feeling it in the bis, and obviously not in the forearms. Try the following, and stick with the exercise(s) that you you feel the most in the bis:

-Standing DB curls
-Seated or incline curls
-Standing cable curls
-Preacher curls - stop before the very bottom to avoid tendon strain and to stay within the stronger portion of the movement.


Also, there has to be good intensity that increases over time by increases in reps, weight or decreases in rest time between sets. Without this you're not likely to gain. Use cheats, rest-pause, etc. to improve this, no matter what.


Besides finding the most effective exercises, keep in mind that generally you have to gain about 10 lb. of "good" weight to gain on arms. Take in extra protein between meals through protein shakes, etc.

Post/answer ads online for a training partner - craigslist.org, meetup.com, etc.

Solid shit. My bi's are beautiful unlike my tri's. Most of my almost 18" arm mass is in my bi's . Best bicep advice I can give is to do alot of concentration movements and VARY the bicep exercise and change it up. Just like the back and chest, hit the biceps from all angles. I'll do heavy preacher curls (built most of my mass with it doing them as pump suggested) and then do some hammers or reverse grip curls, rope cable curls, etc. There's the two heads of the bi's and the brachi on the side. Making sure you attack it as a whole and don't just curl everything one way or the other will ensure your bi's will grow. MOVE BIG WEIGHT! I'm going to be straight with you here bro. Until you're doing seated dumbbell curls with about 60lbs,dumbbell preachers with 70lbs or better, barbells over 135, you're not going to have much arm size. IF this shit was easy, we'd all be there. Move heavy ass weight and your bi's will grow. Don't get discouraged with what I've said, use it as motivation and set your goals. The numbers I've posted in relation to arm size are just that. I've yet to see anyone that moves less than those with any arms to speak of unless they're ridiculously short and just look big.

[pumpster]

True; someone with good sized arms can move serious weight for moderate 6-10 reps on preachers, curls, extensions, etc. A guy i had the chance to train alongside as a kid who went on to place in the Universe did 135 lb. preachers with not a lot of effort. You have to force your way up in reps/weight no matter what it takes including cheats at the end of the set, rest-pause, etc. plus extra protein between meals.

[The Squadfather]

i remember reading a pro talk about arm size in a magazine, i can't recall who it was and he said that most arm size is built with heavy barbell rows, db rows and t bars and heavy bench presses, inclines, overhead presses, i would agree to an extent that a decent form 300 pound plus for reps barbell row and big weights with decent form on pressing movements will build good biceps and triceps size.

[pumpster]

i remember reading a pro talk about arm size in a magazine, i can't recall who it was and he said that most arm size is built with heavy barbell rows, db rows and t bars and heavy bench presses, inclines, overhead presses, i would agree to an extent that a decent form 300 pound plus for reps barbell row and big weights with decent form on pressing movements will build good biceps and triceps size.

It would be interesting to know which pro said that since i've never heard of any who practice it. Less necessary to do direct arm work for overall strength than for development, on the other hand amongst even WSM the guys with good arms like Mariusz include direct work. Most WSM guys are concerned only with functional strength and don't care or have good arms. Mariusz includes direct work even in workouts that already indirectly hit arms.

Mariusz training:
Wednesday:
He started with push jerks, working up to 405 for a very easy and fast two reps. He then squatted, high bar, Olympic style up to two easy, quick sets of 585 for three reps. He then did seated dumbell presses with us; 120 pounds, for ten repetitions, for five sets. I must inform you that this workout was all being done at a very fast pace. Next was curls, five sets of ten reps done on a straight bar with 135, then twenty minutes straight of abdominal work. Steve Macdonald and I were huffing and puffing trying to keep up with the weights used and the vigorous pace being set by the champ. 

Thursday:
10 sets 7-10 pull-ups, and chin-ups, 5 sets of 10 lat pull-downs, 5 sets of 10 lat rows, 5 sets of 6-10 good mornings, 5 sets of ten standing triceps skull-crushers (with 155), 5 sets of ten triceps push-downs, 5 sets of deadlifting (he worked up to 655 for a few).

http://www.marunde-muscle.com/kirit.html

[jpm101]

A lot of the Pro's and top BB'ers can build "most" of their arm size from doing the Big Boy push/pull exercises, but for that extra inch (or so) of refined muscle size, direct arm movements are used. Though not always with a lot of sets or different exercises that you might read about in the T&A mag's. Usually brief hits on the arms . BB/DB's, cables, Scott benches, machines were all put to good use. The BB curl seems to be a standard for quite a few.

 Have not seen one Pro or top BB'er do anything in the way of a full ROM strict anything for the arms (or any other body part). If a full ROM is accomplished, it's usually with a lot of body English and a cheating style.   Usually the curls were mid range movement(including Scott bench and Hammer curls), never a full contraction at top or extension at the bottom of a curl. And almost every guy included the BB curl (straight or EZ bar). Reps were very fast.  Most weight used on the curling bar was near or over 205+. Triceps were usually SkullCrushers (partial movements...near or over 300) and Hammer (or like) machines. Use to watch a Mid Eastern gentleman (a former high placed Mr O) hoist some amazing workout poundage, but for maybe a 1/4th to 3/4th rep range. This guy was beyond huge.

For non direct bicep and tricep work, anyone might try the BB row, with a  curl grip, as an excellent bicep builder. And for the triceps, close grip BP's or the weighted dip. Good Luck.

[pumpster]

A lot of the Pro's and top BB'ers can build "most" of their arm size from doing the Big Boy push/pull exercises, but for that extra inch (or so) of refined muscle size, direct arm movements are used.

This is absolute speculation; please provide evidence from pros/top BBs who believe this.

What is fact is that pros have used direct arm work religiously for size, most from the beginning of their careers. I've never read of any pro making the above assumption in 3.5 decades of reading interviews/workout routines.

Quite the contrary in fact, based on the comments of Schwarzenegger ("cheat curls best for size"), Larry Scott (preachers), Coleman ("extensions best for size"), etc.

[The Squadfather]

JPM is the perfect example, him and his "training buds" built most of their prodigious internet arm mass with 2500 pound bench press lockouts and 1300 pound 1 centimeter ez bar extensions.

[jpm101]

I think the main concern and mistake would be the reading, for 35 years, of interviews/workout routines and actually believing it all.  If any one wants to believe all that creative writing stuff about the BB'ers and how they train, than help yourself. But most of it is pure BS, as anyone with even a little knowledge of BB'ing understands. Thirty five years of eating up all that BS in the mag's and them believing it deserves pity. And than repeating it again as fact.

My offer to plan out a program for SquadFather still stands. After looking at his excellent photo's, he would not need a lot of help, but I will do what I can. By the way, I have been to the St Louis area....I feel your pain. Come to SoCal and meet my training bud's. Good luck.


Side Bar: Bet this gets pulled.

[The Squadfather]

I think the main concern and mistake would be the reading, for 35 years, of interviews/workout routines and actually believing it all.  If any one wants to believe all that creative writing stuff about the BB'ers and how they train, than help yourself. But most of it is pure BS, as anyone with even a little knowledge of BB'ing understands. Thirty five years of eating up all that BS in the mag's and them believing it deserves pity. And than repeating it again as fact.

My offer to plan out a program for SquadFather still stands. After looking at his excellent photo's, he would not need a lot of help, but I will do what I can. By the way, I have been to the St Louis area....I feel your pain. Come to SoCal and meet my training bud's. Good luck.


Side Bar: Bet this gets pulled.

hahahahaha, why don't you post some pics so we can compare "jpm" or are you basically just an internet pusssy who talks a good game? if you are bigger than me i swear to God i'll give you your props, deal?

[pumpster]

hahahahaha, why don't you post some pics so we can compare "jpm" or are you basically just an internet pusssy who talks a good game? if you are bigger than me i swear to God i'll give you your props, deal?

hahahaah "JPM" don't worry your post won't get "pulled" because there were no insults or personal stuff this time.

BTW i also had the real priviledge of training alonside Al Beckles cousin Darcy & some of the West Indies best BBs; the Carribean was second only to Venice Beach for BB. Darcy placed in the top 3 of several Universes in the 70s, had a cut 20" arm pumped, using 135 lb. comfortably for preachers. Nothing to do with relying only on mag articles, that's yet another assumption as is the idea that every article is fiction. Interesting that they're all fictional in exactly the same way.

Still waiting on any proof mags or otherwise, to back up your assumptions.

[The Squadfather]

hahahaah "JPM" don't worry your post won't get "pulled" because there were no insults or personal stuff this time.

hahahaha, i'd love to see what this mass monster looks like after pushing all that monster weight for 2 inch partials, do you think he'll post some, Pump?

[pumpster]

hahahaha, i'd love to see what this mass monster looks like after pushing all that monster weight for 2 inch partials, do you think he'll post some, Pump?

These are the only ones i know of so far of JPM's partials; so far still unauthorized and unconfirmed..

[The Squadfather]

hahahahahahahahahaaaaa.

[thewickedtruth]

LOL you guys are brutal.

[jpm101]

I believe that The Pumpster stated that he was the BB'ing coach for the Bahamian team, or something to that affect, a little while back. After being called out for that, by Ice Cold and others, he did not reply. And his post was altered. Would that be different than training along side Beckles cousin or just belonging to the same gym as he? And of course that has nothing to do with interviews/programs listed in any mag. Or the fiction or truth related to them. Reading about lifting does not always make it so.

A lot of Pro & top BB'ers have built large arms through basic compound stuff. I have no sealed records to back this up. Just talking too and witnessing a lot of their training. Not 35 years, but more like 20 years at some very hard core gym's training and observing. Also talking to PL'ers with outstanding biceps/triceps. Though some of them will use extra , short range tricep movements to help their bench. They will also throw in some curls, from time to time. Not because they have too, but because they want too. If the Pumpster is trying to make a point that I stated that no top BB'er uses direct arm work, than he would be misled again. He even stated that indirect work will help & could reduce the need for direct (tricep) work. But still thinks some direct & intense work makes a difference. That is just about what I said, so I do not see the The Pumpster's  need to argue the point. If confused, than it may be required for he to reread what he wrote in this thread. And what I wrote.

Quoting the SquadFather "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA", unquote. A man truly lost for words. And the words he finally finds make no sense. Seem to have an unending loathing for partial reps and any one who uses them in training. Finding it even harder to understand that most people (even him) can and do use 80 to 100lbs over their PB bench press (or most any other exercise) when applying this type of training. So if a lifter can bench, say 500lb, than using partials with 80 to 100lbs over that for short range is normal in training. Because I can and do use extra heavy weight in training, with partials (it's my genetic nature) , in some way, this seems to offend SF.  Too bad, it is what it is. If he wishes to call it BS than that's his choice. I am not on any  crusade to boost up and  lie about any weight I may use in training. What good would that do me? I will keep anonymous as long as I post on this site. Good Luck.

[pumpster]

OK JPM, long-winded & fluffy, as usual.

Post routines/proof of pros who corroborate what you've claimed about indirect work, i still don't see anything. Otherwise your claim in null & void.

NO articles i've ever seen have said this, and i'm 100% sure that not all of them are fiction.

AND i've had the luck to have worked out with great BBs, all of whom did direct work with serious weight and had great arms. How could i have claimed to have been coach when i was 16 years old? LOL this is someone else's senility setting in, misinterpreting facts. Make sure to produce the link that makes that claim i'd like to see it.

[The Squadfather]

I believe that The Pumpster stated that he was the BB'ing coach for the Bahamian team, or something to that affect, a little while back. After being called out for that, by Ice Cold and others, he did not reply. And his post was altered. Would that be different than training along side Beckles cousin or just belonging to the same gym as he? And of course that has nothing to do with interviews/programs listed in any mag. Or the fiction or truth related to them. Reading about lifting does not always make it so.

A lot of Pro & top BB'ers have built large arms through basic compound stuff. I have no sealed records to back this up. Just talking too and witnessing a lot of their training. Not 35 years, but more like 20 years at some very hard core gym's training and observing. Also talking to PL'ers with outstanding biceps/triceps. Though some of them will use extra , short range tricep movements to help their bench. They will also throw in some curls, from time to time. Not because they have too, but because they want too. If the Pumpster is trying to make a point that I stated that no top BB'er uses direct arm work, than he would be misled again. He even stated that indirect work will help & could reduce the need for direct (tricep) work. But still thinks some direct & intense work makes a difference. That is just about what I said, so I do not see the The Pumpster's  need to argue the point. If confused, than it may be required for he to reread what he wrote in this thread. And what I wrote.

Quoting the SquadFather "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA", unquote. A man truly lost for words. And the words he finally finds make no sense. Seem to have an unending loathing for partial reps and any one who uses them in training. Finding it even harder to understand that most people (even him) can and do use 80 to 100lbs over their PB bench press (or most any other exercise) when applying this type of training. So if a lifter can bench, say 500lb, than using partials with 80 to 100lbs over that for short range is normal in training. Because I can and do use extra heavy weight in training, with partials (it's my genetic nature) , in some way, this seems to offend SF.  Too bad, it is what it is. If he wishes to call it BS than that's his choice. I am not on any  crusade to boost up and  lie about any weight I may use in training. What good would that do me? I will keep anonymous as long as I post on this site. Good Luck.

hahahaha, just what i thought, another pusssy.

[jpm101]

My friend, The Pumpster: Because you erased it, like you had so many other of you post, when people called you outon other matters. That you were the coach, in fact, of the Bahamian Bb'ing team had been stated by you. Sixteen or 39 years old, whatever, you claimed that honor.

I can not post or reproduce any exact scheme by a Pro or top bb'er , just what I witnesses and was told by them. That's where I stand. What they may do in a gym and what is written about them, to fill magazines pages is another story all together.

Again, your missing the point that we are pretty much in agreement, from what you said about  indirect work will help & could reduce the need for direct (tricep) work. Also stating, still some direct & intense work makes a difference. This we both agree upon, it's just how they got that initial size in the first place.



SquadFather: HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Good Luck to all.

[The Squadfather]

My friend, The Pumpster: Because you erased it, like you had so many other of you post, when people called you outon other matters. That you were the coach, in fact, of the Bahamian Bb'ing team had been stated by you. Sixteen or 39 years old, whatever, you claimed that honor.

I can not post or reproduce any exact scheme by a Pro or top bb'er , just what I witnesses and was told by them. That's where I stand. What they may do in a gym and what is written about them, to fill magazines pages is another story all together.

Again, your missing the point that we are pretty much in agreement, from what you said about  indirect work will help & could reduce the need for direct (tricep) work. Also stating, still some direct & intense work makes a difference. This we both agree upon, it's just how they got that initial size in the first place.



SquadFather: HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Good Luck to all.

still no pictures, "big man"?