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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Dos Equis on May 16, 2007, 11:00:50 AM
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First time. One of my co-worker's sons is going on a two-year mission and talked about his decision. Very interesting service. A few observations:
- It was very quiet. No clapping. No talking (among the members). Doors were closed. Noisy kids were taken out.
- No Bibles or Book of Mormon and no readings.
- Lots of signing from their hymnbook.
- No standing. I loved this! I once attended a Catholic church and all we did was stand-up, sit down, stand-up, sit down . . . .
- Took part in their communion. It was regular break and water.
- A friend told me he went to church in Utah and saw a huge number of people with Down's Syndrome. I looked for that and only saw one person.
- Somewhat diverse crowd, though predominantly white. But the Bishop was Samoan.
- I came away thinking the service was pretty normal, with the exception of the absence of Bibles or their Book of Mormon.
- I think their missionary emphasis is outstanding. I was very impressed.
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I recommend you look into sects from the Branch Davidian too.
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First time. One of my co-worker's sons is going on a two-year mission and talked about his decision. Very interesting service. A few observations:
- It was very quiet. No clapping. No talking (among the members). Doors were closed. Noisy kids were taken out.
- No Bibles or Book of Mormon and no readings.
- Lots of signing from their hymnbook.
- No standing. I loved this! I once attended a Catholic church and all we did was stand-up, sit down, stand-up, sit down . . . .
- Took part in their communion. It was regular break and water.
- A friend told me he went to church in Utah and saw a huge number of people with Down's Syndrome. I looked for that and only saw one person.
- Somewhat diverse crowd, though predominantly white. But the Bishop was Samoan.
- I came away thinking the service was pretty normal, with the exception of the absence of Bibles or their Book of Mormon.
- I think their missionary emphasis is outstanding. I was very impressed.
Vegas is full of Mormons -- not a fan and have had terrible business dealings with a couple of them
did they show you the secret handshake?
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Vegas is full of Mormons -- not a fan and have had terrible business dealings with a couple of them
did they show you the secret handshake?
Hawaii is full of Mormons. I've had nothing but good experiences and I work with one.
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First time. One of my co-worker's sons is going on a two-year mission and talked about his decision. Very interesting service. A few observations:
- It was very quiet. No clapping. No talking (among the members). Doors were closed. Noisy kids were taken out.
- No Bibles or Book of Mormon and no readings.
- Lots of signing from their hymnbook.
- No standing. I loved this! I once attended a Catholic church and all we did was stand-up, sit down, stand-up, sit down . . . .
- Took part in their communion. It was regular break and water.
- A friend told me he went to church in Utah and saw a huge number of people with Down's Syndrome. I looked for that and only saw one person.
- Somewhat diverse crowd, though predominantly white. But the Bishop was Samoan.
- I came away thinking the service was pretty normal, with the exception of the absence of Bibles or their Book of Mormon.
- I think their missionary emphasis is outstanding. I was very impressed.
they have a study apart from the service, and that's where they use bible and book of mormon. i was surprised by how much they used the bible.
what's this down's syndrome business? how many people were there?
were the women better looking than average?
when I went, the study was being led by a (dot)Indian, which I thought was completely bizarre.
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I had a good friend growing up that was Mormon and we used to compare notes (I was raised JW). The two religions have very similar in their moral standings
no sex before marriage, missionary work, disfellowshipping, Jesus is Savior and Gods son..God is God (ie.. no trinity doctrine)
Only thing that threw me off into left field is that the majority of their beliefs originate from the "Book of Mormon" which had derive partial (or wholly if I remember right) on some Golden Plates (like what you use at dinner time) that had holy inscriptions on them. No one has seen the plates as they are lock up at the main tabernacle.
During the cold war most religions were investigated by the CIA including JW and one of the things they asked the Mormons to produce was infact these plates...they could not, then took it to court but the Mormons won.
Like JW, most are good people with good values / morals that pay their taxes like we all do.
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My wife's family is mormon and from what I have seen the people in the church are all regular people. They have some unique beliefs such as baptising people after their death, not drinking caffeine, they are assigned to a ward (church) etc. but they are all normal god fearing people.
I have always said that when Smith went west he picked the most beautiful big breasted women he could find because in Utah/Idaho that is all you see. Big breasted gorgeous women!
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they have a study apart from the service, and that's where they use bible and book of mormon. i was surprised by how much they used the bible.
what's this down's syndrome business? how many people were there?
were the women better looking than average?
when I went, the study was being led by a (dot)Indian, which I thought was completely bizarre.
I think Down's Syndrome is related to intermarriage? My friend saw a lot in Utah. I only saw one at the church I attended here.
There was the normal range of women, from pretty, to average, to ugly.
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First time. One of my co-worker's sons is going on a two-year mission and talked about his decision. Very interesting service. A few observations:
- It was very quiet. No clapping. No talking (among the members). Doors were closed. Noisy kids were taken out.
- No Bibles or Book of Mormon and no readings.
- Lots of signing from their hymnbook.
- No standing. I loved this! I once attended a Catholic church and all we did was stand-up, sit down, stand-up, sit down . . . .
- Took part in their communion. It was regular break and water.
- A friend told me he went to church in Utah and saw a huge number of people with Down's Syndrome. I looked for that and only saw one person.
- Somewhat diverse crowd, though predominantly white. But the Bishop was Samoan.
- I came away thinking the service was pretty normal, with the exception of the absence of Bibles or their Book of Mormon.
- I think their missionary emphasis is outstanding. I was very impressed.
BEach, did your friend's son speak the whole time about his decision or was there a "sermon" also?
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BEach, did your friend's son speak the whole time about his decision or was there a "sermon" also?
He spoke last. There was no sermon, although he read passages from "Doctrines and Covenants" throughout his talk. The service went something like this:
Opening remarks, accouncements by the Bishop
Prayer
Song from hymnbook
Two old ladies sing song
Special reading for mothers
All mothers get a flower
Song from hymnbook
Communion
One (really big) Samoan kid talks about his upcoming mission. All I could think about was, "dang, UH could his him on the O-line." :-[
Comments by one of my co-worker's other sons (talking about his brother)
Introductory remarks by my co-worker
Solo by my co-worker's 13-year-old daughter. She is awesome.
Remarks by my co-worker's son. Lot's of crying.
Song from hymnbook
Closing prayer
All in all, pretty normal.
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No one has seen the plates as they are lock up at the main tabernacle.
Is this true?
Garraeth would need to confirm, but I always heard that the plates were sent back to heaven once Joseph Smith was done with them or something like that.
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Is this true?
Garraeth would need to confirm, but I always heard that the plates were sent back to heaven once Joseph Smith was done with them or something like that.
pretty sure they were returned to the angel once smith was done with them.
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A friend told me he went to church in Utah and saw a huge number of people with Down's Syndrome. I looked for that and only saw one person.
I can't speak about the rate of occurence in modern times, but there's no denying that in the early days of the Mormon church's existence, there was a lot of inbreeding. As a result, there were a lot of genetic defects.
Aside from money, that's one of the main reasons that the church decided to step up its outside recruitment efforts during the latter part of the 19th century.
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My wife's family is mormon and from what I have seen the people in the church are all regular people. They have some unique beliefs such as baptising people after their death, not drinking caffeine, they are assigned to a ward (church) etc. but they are all normal god fearing people.
I have always said that when Smith went west he picked the most beautiful big breasted women he could find because in Utah/Idaho that is all you see. Big breasted gorgeous women!
A friend of mine from New York City who came to live here [Salt Lake City] immediately dubbed it "Hooterville". And he had moved here from Los Angeles.
"Unique beliefs"... that's one way of putting it. ;D
Did they tell you about the Jesus-jammies?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment
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My wife's family is mormon and from what I have seen the people in the church are all regular people. They have some unique beliefs such as baptising people after their death, not drinking caffeine, they are assigned to a ward (church) etc. but they are all normal god fearing people.
I have always said that when Smith went west he picked the most beautiful big breasted women he could find because in Utah/Idaho that is all you see. Big breasted gorgeous women!
That's how I first got hooked up with them, too. At that time in my life, 'hot and virtuous' seemed like a pretty good combination.
I live in Ventura County and have to say, with just one exception (the c*nt who runs the Primary), everyone in my wife's church would qualify as 'good people'. I enjoy conversing with them about a variety of topics, and even though our beliefs systems are completely different, we have more than enough common ground to really get along. I'm really going to miss all these relationships when we move in less than 3 weeks :(, but having Mormon friends is GREAT when moving day arrives, because those folks come out in full force to help. :)
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My wife's family is mormon and from what I have seen the people in the church are all regular people. They have some unique beliefs such as baptising people after their death, not drinking caffeine, they are assigned to a ward (church) etc. but they are all normal god fearing people.
I have always said that when Smith went west he picked the most beautiful big breasted women he could find because in Utah/Idaho that is all you see. Big breasted gorgeous women!
His wives and Young's wives looked nothing like that....they were ugly looking heifers. I guess those were the ones that could survive at the time. Those women you talk about moved there afterwards.
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lol...first time I've heard that.
But, we (informally, as a joke or slang) call the underwear that guys who haven't gotten their garments yet "Aaronics"...or normal gentile underwear.
Named after the Aaronic Priesthood which they hold before holding the Melchizedek Priesthood and get their garments.
Kinda like: "When you go to the gym or beach, you wear your Aaronics."
...guess you have to be Mormon to get the joke...heh
Question, I was told by a woman that they check women's underwear. If it is told that they weare thongs, or French cut panties, the priest may check. This woman's neighbor had an issue like that and had to go to the Big Church on the Beltway (495---that goes around DC)
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This cartoon is NOT 100% false:
My current missionaries are not able to discuss Kolob, though.
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Question, I was told by a woman that they check women's underwear. If it is told that they weare thongs, or French cut panties, the priest may check. This woman's neighbor had an issue like that and had to go to the Big Church on the Beltway (495---that goes around DC)
It really just depends on your area. It's been my experience that Mormons - and I'm speaking primarily of the women - gossip more than any other church-going people. Even though Brigham Young spoke at length about the evils of gossip, it's a staple of Mormon life.
How does that relate to privacy issues?
Well, in some areas, the church is more invasive than in other places.
Some people will say, "At tithing settlement, the bishop asked whether I'm a full tithes payer and I told him I was."
Others will say, "For my temple recommend interview, my bishop said I'd need to bring in my previous year's tax return."
I've never personally experienced the tax return thing myself, nor do I know anyone who's ever been asked. As for those who've been raised in the church, however, I do know of someone who swears that her great-uncle(?) had to produce his tax returns in order to be eligible to advance in the church leadership past a certain level.
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In some places, two unmarried, Mormon adults can live together and no one will say a word. But in other areas, the gossip-mongers will make it their business to cause trouble and the next thing you know, the co-habitants are called in to see the bishop. The bishop, after speaking with the member(s), will then determine whether he needs to call a bishop's council or even a stake disciplinary council.
FYI:
ward = single church group, determined by geographical boundaries, and the bishop is the presiding official over a ward
stake = group of wards, also determined by geography, and the stake president presides over the stake
stake high council = 12 men called to assist the stake presidency
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Based on the arguments presented, the stake presidency could then decide to disfellowship (shun) or even to ex-communicate the members. If disfellowshipped, the person would be restricted from going to the temple, holding a 'calling' (church job), taking the sacrament, and could even be restricted from bearing their testimony.
Although not common, this stuff can and does happen in the 21st century.
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uh hu ::)
One of my high school friends also thought I believed little green men deposited us here on earth.
And people sometimes thought I had horns on my head while I was in the boonies in Missouri.
...it's called common sense...
You don't get it do you. Remember a few years ago the the big stink in LA where a woman who was stripper was forced to take her child out of a Christian private school. It first started with the questioning on her wearing thong under wear, then it was found out that she was stripper (one of the school admis. went on line to find her picture).
So it is not far from the true, oh and by the way, they are grey not green, get your facts straight ;D
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Of all the things in the Mormon faith I have a problem with, the fact that a person can 'become God' (just like 'God' himself did) is the one sticking point that I'll never be able to get past.
To me, it's simple: if man can eventually become God, then there's no need for God in the first place.
IMO, it's the height of arrogance to think a person has that capacity, but this is a core belief of their faith and they refuse to move from this point.
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Of all the things in the Mormon faith I have a problem with, the fact that a person can 'become God' (just like 'God' himself did) is the one sticking point that I'll never be able to get past.
To me, it's simple: if man can eventually become God, then there's no need for God in the first place.
IMO, it's the height of arrogance to think a person has that capacity, but this is a core belief of their faith and they refuse to move from this point.
Arrogance and ignorance are borther and sister. Arrogant to think that way, and to ignorant to realize thet they are wrong, regardless of common sense.
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Apparently I don't get it. Was she mormon or just had a kid in a christian private school? We are talking about mormons here, not general church goers. There are no mormon private schools in LA.
And there is no way in hell any mormon would officially be able to ask to see anyones underwear -- if you've heard a story about something like that happening, that person would probably be excommunicated.
I'm also sure there are mormons out there who do believe we were deposited here by little green men, and some that even go around telling people we have horns. But they are the crazies and there are crazies in all religions.
So, no, I don't understand your point.
No, this was a Christian private school. I'm saying it is not farfetched. What my point is, is whenever, you have religions who judge or suppress a woman's sexuality or "get into a woman's business". They have this thing about underwear.Especailly certain sects which have a "control-women" thing. If a woman wears a thong, or g-string, then it means to them (be it Christian, Mormon, Jewish, Muslim) that the woman is sexually permiscious. There is no proof of that, however this is the thinking. So checking a woman's underwear---if she is wearing a thong, and not granny panties, means she is whoring around, or only confirmation of rumors that she is.
And this not the not the first time I have heard about panty checking. Kinda like a modern version of checking a woman's vagina to make sure she is a virgin.
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No, this was a Christian private school. I'm saying it is not farfetched. What my point is, is whenever, you have religions who judge or suppress a woman's sexuality or "get into a woman's business". They have this thing about underwear.Especailly certain sects which have a "control-women" thing. If a woman wears a thong, or g-string, then it means to them (be it Christian, Mormon, Jewish, Muslim) that the woman is sexually permiscious. There is no proof of that, however this is the thinking. So checking a woman's underwear---if she is wearing a thong, and not granny panties, means she is whoring around, or only confirmation of rumors that she is.
And this not the not the first time I have heard about panty checking. Kinda like a modern version of checking a woman's vagina to make sure she is a virgin.
Bro bishops and other church authorities are not allowed to check a womens underwear. They may ask if a women wears her garments. If she doesnt then she cant go to the temple, but she may still attend church. Men have to wear garments and held to the same standard as women. If a man doesnt wear his garments then he may not enter the temple
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Bro bishops and other church authorities are not allowed to check a womens underwear. They may ask if a women wears her garments. If she doesnt then she cant go to the temple, but she may still attend church. Men have to wear garments and held to the same standard as women. If a man doesnt wear his garments then he may not enter the temple
Do you feel it's acceptable to ask a grown person about their choice of underwear?
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The garment is a commitent you make. It is a reminder to the wearer to keep gods commandents. To the average person i would say no that it is not oaky to ask what underwear they wear. But mormons make that commitent, i have meet mormons that dont wear the garments, but i have never a mormon that though wearing the garment was wrong
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The garment is a commitent you make. It is a reminder to the wearer to keep gods commandents. To the average person i would say no that it is not oaky to ask what underwear they wear. But mormons make that commitent, i have meet mormons that dont wear the garments, but i have never a mormon that though wearing the garment was wrong
what is the church's position on interracial unions. I know y'all allow Indians (dotheads) to intermingle, b/c there was one leading the study when I went to y'all's church, but what about ay-rabs, blacks, etc?
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what is the church's position on interracial unions. I know y'all allow Indians (dotheads) to intermingle, b/c there was one leading the study when I went to y'all's church, but what about ay-rabs, blacks, etc?
IF you can make it work then you can marry anyone that you want.(different sex that is) They dont suggest it because marriage is hard enough without race issues, but if you want too and you think that she is the right one, then you can marry who you please. And they suggest that you marry another member of the church, for the same reasons as above(Mariage is hard enough). But you dont have too, but if you do marry outside the church then you cannot get married in the temple. to get married in the temple then you have both must be worthy members of the church
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IF you can make it work then you can marry anyone that you want.(different sex that is) They dont suggest it because marriage is hard enough without race issues, but if you want too and you think that she is the right one, then you can marry who you please. And they suggest that you marry another member of the church, for the same reasons as above(Mariage is hard enough). But you dont have too, but if you do marry outside the church then you cannot get married in the temple. to get married in the temple then you have both must be worthy members of the church
1. Don't suggest interracial unions = discourage it? in which case, it's just like my grandmother's closet racism. I don't care one way or the other on interracial unions, but it seems like singling out "race issues" as the complicating factor in a marriage is a cop-out.
2. Why is your username general rommel?
3. What's the deal with the "mark of cain"?
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1. Don't suggest interracial unions = discourage it? in which case, it's just like my grandmother's closet racism. I don't care one way or the other on interracial unions, but it seems like singling out "race issues" as the complicating factor in a marriage is a cop-out.
2. Why is your username general rommel?
3. What's the deal with the "mark of cain"?
1. It is not discouraged at all if you want marry someone outside your race to do it then do. And racism implies that one race is better than another. Example like whites are better than blacks ,etc. the church has members from all races. In my ward(congregation) there is a white man married to an asian woman, there is also a white man married to a latino woman, and also there is a white woman married to a black man. There is a black man married to a black woman, there is also a white man married to a white woman. They are all treated just the same.
2. I think that rommel was a great military commander, i am not a nazi, i do believe hitler was evil. I do not condone was the nazi did. I like rommel because of his military career that is all
3. All i know is that Cain was given a mark i dont know what it is or what it implies.
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Didn't Mormons teach that the mark of Cain was black skin?
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Didn't Mormons teach that the mark of Cain was black skin?
yeah, I was watching Big Love the other night, and this chick from one of the "compounds" said that Jimi Hendrix had the "mark of Cain."
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yeah, I was watching Big Love the other night, and this chick from one of the "compounds" said that Jimi Hendrix had the "mark of Cain."
Please in the name of that is good and holy in this world do not take what is said on BIg Love as what the mormon church believes. We are not polygamists, if you are in the church and you practice polygamy, then you are excommunicated. I have heard that Cains mark was his black skin, but that doesnt mean that white people are better or that black or people of colored are more sinful or anything like that. It just means that his mark was his black skin
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Please in the name of that is good and holy in this world do not take what is said on BIg Love as what the mormon church believes. We are not polygamists, if you are in the church and you practice polygamy, then you are excommunicated. I have heard that Cains mark was his black skin, but that doesnt mean that white people are better or that black or people of colored are more sinful or anything like that. It just means that his mark was his black skin
don't worry, I realize Big Love is a tv show. ;D
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don't worry, I realize Big Love is a tv show. ;D
Thanks. . . . Some people do
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Please in the name of that is good and holy in this world do not take what is said on BIg Love as what the mormon church believes. We are not polygamists, if you are in the church and you practice polygamy, then you are excommunicated. I have heard that Cains mark was his black skin, but that doesnt mean that white people are better or that black or people of colored are more sinful or anything like that. It just means that his mark was his black skin
That doesn't appear to be consistent with what Mormon leaders have said in the past:
Church leader Bruce R. McConkie, on the denial of equality for Africans:
“NEGROES IN THIS LIFE ARE DENIED THE PRIESTHOOD; under NO circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation IS NOT CARRIED AFFIRMATIVELY TO THEM... “NEGROES ARE NOT EQUAL WITH OTHER RACES WHERE THE RECEIPT OF CERTAIN SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS ARE CONCERNED...” (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, p. 477)
Future President of the Mormon church, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote:
“Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness HE BECAME THE FATHER OF AN INFERIOR RACE.”
(The Way to Perfection, page 101)
More from Smith:
“There is a reason why one man is BORN BLACK and with OTHER DISADVANTAGES, while another is BORN WHITE with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient; more or less, to the laws that were given us there.”
(Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, page 61)
The Mark of Cain
The Mormon prophet Brigham Young on the appearence of Africans:
“Cain slew his brother....and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the FLAT NOSE AND BLACK SKIN...”
(Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, pages 290-291)
From a Mormon Publication:
“Their skin is quite black, their hair woolly and black, THEIR INTELLIGENCE STUNTED, and they appear never to have arisen from the most savage state of barbarism.” The Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157)
http://www.realmormonhistory.com/god&skin.htm
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I think the LDS have eschewed the position that blacks are inferior, just like they did plural marriage. things evolve.
P.S. You should weigh in on the Naomi Watts v Meryl Streep debate on the Girlie board.
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That doesn't appear to be consistent with what Mormon leaders have said in the past:
Church leader Bruce R. McConkie, on the denial of equality for Africans:
“NEGROES IN THIS LIFE ARE DENIED THE PRIESTHOOD; under NO circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation IS NOT CARRIED AFFIRMATIVELY TO THEM... “NEGROES ARE NOT EQUAL WITH OTHER RACES WHERE THE RECEIPT OF CERTAIN SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS ARE CONCERNED...” (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, p. 477)
Future President of the Mormon church, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote:
“Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness HE BECAME THE FATHER OF AN INFERIOR RACE.”
(The Way to Perfection, page 101)
More from Smith:
“There is a reason why one man is BORN BLACK and with OTHER DISADVANTAGES, while another is BORN WHITE with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient; more or less, to the laws that were given us there.”
(Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, page 61)
The Mark of Cain
The Mormon prophet Brigham Young on the appearence of Africans:
“Cain slew his brother....and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the FLAT NOSE AND BLACK SKIN...”
(Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, pages 290-291)
From a Mormon Publication:
“Their skin is quite black, their hair woolly and black, THEIR INTELLIGENCE STUNTED, and they appear never to have arisen from the most savage state of barbarism.” The Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157)
http://www.realmormonhistory.com/god&skin.htm
That doesn't appear to be consistent with what Mormon leaders have said in the past:
Church leader Bruce R. McConkie, on the denial of equality for Africans:
“NEGROES IN THIS LIFE ARE DENIED THE PRIESTHOOD; under NO circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation IS NOT CARRIED AFFIRMATIVELY TO THEM... “NEGROES ARE NOT EQUAL WITH OTHER RACES WHERE THE RECEIPT OF CERTAIN SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS ARE CONCERNED...” (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, p. 477)
Future President of the Mormon church, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote:
“Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness HE BECAME THE FATHER OF AN INFERIOR RACE.”
(The Way to Perfection, page 101)
More from Smith:
“There is a reason why one man is BORN BLACK and with OTHER DISADVANTAGES, while another is BORN WHITE with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient; more or less, to the laws that were given us there.”
(Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, page 61)
The Mark of Cain
The Mormon prophet Brigham Young on the appearence of Africans:
“Cain slew his brother....and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the FLAT NOSE AND BLACK SKIN...”
(Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, pages 290-291)
From a Mormon Publication:
“Their skin is quite black, their hair woolly and black, THEIR INTELLIGENCE STUNTED, and they appear never to have arisen from the most savage state of barbarism.” The Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157)
http://www.realmormonhistory.com/god&skin.htm
I dont know about the last quote, that doesnt sound right. But yes in the past black people were not allowed to hold the priesthood(which is the autthority to act in gods name). And yes the church did practice polygamy at one time. But both of those have changed blacks can now hold the preisthood and we do not practice polygamy. Right now my prieshood leader is a black man named Issac. So we do accept everybody and eveybody is equal. And the hole Cain and his race thing i dont claim to be and expert, all i know is that i have black friends in the church
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I think the LDS have eschewed the position that blacks are inferior, just like they did plural marriage. things evolve.
P.S. You should weigh in on the Naomi Watts v Meryl Streep debate on the Girlie board.
Yes things evolve.
I'll check out the debate.
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I dont know about the last quote, that doesnt sound right. But yes in the past black people were not allowed to hold the priesthood(which is the autthority to act in gods name). And yes the church did practice polygamy at one time. But both of those have changed blacks can now hold the preisthood and we do not practice polygamy. Right now my prieshood leader is a black man named Issac. So we do accept everybody and eveybody is equal. And the hole Cain and his race thing i dont claim to be and expert, all i know is that i have black friends in the church
I'm not suggesting these are the current beliefs and practices of the Mormon church. They just have some pretty bad history when it comes to race.
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I'm not suggesting these are the current beliefs and practices of the Mormon church. They just have some pretty bad history when it comes to race.
Everybody does
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Everybody does
True. Church time might be one of the most segregated parts of our country.
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True. Church time might be one of the most segregated parts of our country.
that and the barber shop
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that and the barber shop
I have black,white,asian,latinos all in my ward(congregation)
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that and the barber shop
LOL. :D
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I have black,white,asian,latinos all in my ward(congregation)
I have the same and more at my church, but there are still a plethora of "white churches" and "black churches" all across America.
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Bro bishops and other church authorities are not allowed to check a womens underwear. They may ask if a women wears her garments. If she doesnt then she cant go to the temple, but she may still attend church. Men have to wear garments and held to the same standard as women. If a man doesnt wear his garments then he may not enter the temple
Are "garments" just any underwear? If not, what are the acceptable characteristics regarding the "garments?" Are they church-issued or can you buy them at any store?
genrommel, thanks for answering our questions :)
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Are "garments" just any underwear? If not, what are the acceptable characteristics regarding the "garments?" Are they church-issued or can you buy them at any store?
genrommel, thanks for answering our questions :)
Garments are church-issued, you have to buy them at special stores. They consist of very thin white undershirt and very thin white underwear(basically thin boxers)
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Garments are church-issued, you have to buy them at special stores. They consist of very thin white undershirt and very thin white underwear(basically thin boxers)
How much do they cost? Do you have to purchase a set number? Do the women have to wear the undershirts also?
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If you rent Angels in America, the main character wears them.
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If you rent Angels in America, the main character wears them.
If that is a chick-flick odds are 100% that I won't rent it :)
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If that is a chick-flick odds are 100% that I won't rent it :)
it's not a chick flick for sure . . . I have no idea what genre it falls in. Gay fantasy, perhaps? Al Pacino's in it, so is Meryl Streep, Emma Thompson . . . it's long as hell too.
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How much do they cost? Do you have to purchase a set number? Do the women have to wear the undershirts also?
I dont know much they cost. They are not expensive. They come packs of 4 shirts or 4 pants etc.
Yes women have to wear the undershirts. the garments are the same, the only difference in them is the mens bottoms have extra room the male anatomy(penis). And womens top(undershirt) has extra room for the female anatomy(breasts). So they alittle different only to make more comfortable for the wearer
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I used to work with a kid years ago that was about 6 months away from going on his 2 year mission...I would drink coffee and swear and shit like that and he would call me a sinner and a lost soul...Funny thing about him is we used to go out to the clubs and i would get all banged up on E and GhB while he just liked to dance and try to pick up as many girls as he could...I would see him making out in the corner with diff/girls thru out the night...Pretty funny...I used to ask him about the religion but he seemed to not want to share really to much about it...Probably knew i would fck with him and call him a hypocrite..
The most interesting thing about all this was that his dad got his whole family into the religion...I found out what his dad did for a job(he was a big wig and Anheuser Bush)...I almost fell out of my chair when he told me what his dad did...I told him to tell his dad "thanks for peddling the devils brew" to all us lost souls and i hope he sleeps well at night...
Have any of you guys read about the ties between the illuminati and the mormon Church...Some freaky shit...One really has to wonder how the fck does a religion get a whole state in the U.S...That alone is pretty strange...
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That doesn't appear to be consistent with what Mormon leaders have said in the past:
Church leader Bruce R. McConkie, on the denial of equality for Africans:
“NEGROES IN THIS LIFE ARE DENIED THE PRIESTHOOD; under NO circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation IS NOT CARRIED AFFIRMATIVELY TO THEM... “NEGROES ARE NOT EQUAL WITH OTHER RACES WHERE THE RECEIPT OF CERTAIN SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS ARE CONCERNED...” (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, p. 477)
Future President of the Mormon church, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote:
“Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness HE BECAME THE FATHER OF AN INFERIOR RACE.”
(The Way to Perfection, page 101)
More from Smith:
“There is a reason why one man is BORN BLACK and with OTHER DISADVANTAGES, while another is BORN WHITE with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient; more or less, to the laws that were given us there.”
(Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, page 61)
The Mark of Cain
The Mormon prophet Brigham Young on the appearence of Africans:
“Cain slew his brother....and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the FLAT NOSE AND BLACK SKIN...”
(Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, pages 290-291)
From a Mormon Publication:
“Their skin is quite black, their hair woolly and black, THEIR INTELLIGENCE STUNTED, and they appear never to have arisen from the most savage state of barbarism.” The Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157)
http://www.realmormonhistory.com/god&skin.htm
Yep that about summs up the hypocrisy. Blast you then, but come with open arms now, and play pretend, by not taclking what The Founder Brigham Young (and his poly past) had said. "Go get more black souls, because they are lost due to their inherent inferiority"
I know the game
Just because someones "wears the garments" does not make them more applicable to enter "a house of God", than one who doesn't any under wear at all. One could wear those garments and shoot up the church. And the main fact that there regulatory "underwear", shows the perverse natural of their intrusion ino one's personal life, and trying to make one feel bad about it. And what happens if a woman say's yes she is wearing the "garments< but she is not, and they know she is lying? Do they check her?
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1. Mormons got Utah b/c it was n't desirable land then. They were persecuted in the East, so they migrated West . . . to the desert, basically. Later, it was in the politicians' interest to incorporate Utah as a state. And by then, Young had filled it with Mormons.
They almost lost everything when Congress was on the verge of confiscating all the assets of LDS church b/c of polygamy. That's when the Brigham Young's successor had a timely vision about plural marriage.
Mormons were almost on par w racial minorities like Blacks and chinese during the late 19th century.
2. Why indict just Brigham Young for harboring such thoughts about blacks? A lot of white Christians, especially in the South, felt similarly about them.
3. Why should Mormons have to be perfect?
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1. Mormons got Utah b/c it was n't desirable land then. They were persecuted in the East, so they migrated West . . . to the desert, basically. It was in the politicians' interest to incorporate them as a state later. That said, they almost lost everything when Congress was on the verge of confiscating all the assets of LDS b/c of polygamy. That's when the Brigham Young had a timely vision about plural marriage.
Mormons were almost on par w racial minorities like Blacks and chinese during the late 19th century.
2. Why indict just Brigham Young for harboring such thoughts about blacks? A lot of white Christians, especially in the South, felt similarly about them.
3. Why should Mormons have to be perfect?
Nope, because into the first halve of the 19th century, black were slaves, then after 1865 Reconstruction was ended, which entered the black codes, and Jim Crow. West of the Mississippi River was a little liberal than the south and the east coast at that time period. Plus, Mormons were white.
2. Yes many white Christians of the time did (also the Bible neither condones nor condemns slavery), but not all, with the Mormons they explicitly taught that...
Mofos need to stop having "visions". You could bump you head and have a "Vision" and get enough gulible people to believe you, poof instant religion.
3. I'm not saving perfect, it is just "convient" that the long-standing tradition of this mark of Ham, and then all of a sudden they want to convert blacks...based on the assumption that their poor souls need it. The same thing is being taught, just wrapped up in a different coat, like a Camary and a Lexus ES350.
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1. in the interest of historical accuracy, reconstruction ended in 1877, and that's when the "separate, but equal" bs began.
2. Joseph Smith was killed by a mob, and later on the govt was ready to intervene in Utah militarily. People really hated them . . . people don't up and migrate over a 1,000 miles (often on foot) for no good reason. They had their own Trail of Tears . . .
3. Mormonism arose at a time when people were very much into raciAList bs, so it's not surprising that some of it made its way into their "theology." If you look at christian scripture, you'll see a lot of culturally specific things too. it's just the way it goes. Angels appear. Visions are granted. it's the way of all faith.
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Nope, because into the first halve of the 19th century, black were slaves, then after 1865 Reconstruction was ended, which entered the black codes, and Jim Crow. West of the Mississippi River was a little liberal than the south and the east coast at that time period. Plus, Mormons were white.
2. Yes many white Christians of the time did (also the Bible neither condones nor condemns slavery), but not all, with the Mormons they explicitly taught that...
Mofos need to stop having "visions". You could bump you head and have a "Vision" and get enough gulible people to believe you, poof instant religion.
3. I'm not saving perfect, it is just "convient" that the long-standing tradition of this mark of Ham, and then all of a sudden they want to convert blacks...based on the assumption that their poor souls need it. The same thing is being taught, just wrapped up in a different coat, like a Camary and a Lexus ES350.
1.IF you look at the bible many of the different prophets had convient visions that accomplished there needs.
2. Joseph Smith not brigham young was the founder of the LDS(mormon) faith.
3. Mormons had it just as bad as any minority in the 19th century. The mormons started in new york then were forced to go to pennsylvania, and then moved to missouri. They were then forced out of missouri, it was so bad in missouri that the Governor of the State of missouri put out an extermination order for any mormons(Meaning it was legally ok to kill any mormon within the state of missouri). That law wasnt repealled until 1972. Then they moved to ohio, they were then driven out of ohio. After the mormons were forced out of ohio they moved to illinois and built the city nauvoo, the mormons were then forced out of illinois and the city nauvoo(which was bigger than chicago) was burned to the ground. It was after this that the mormons made there way to utah, then nothing more than a desert. The reason that mormons when to utah because it was outside the authority of the US government. And when i say that the mormons left a state i mean that violent mobs physically chased them out of the state. That is why the mormons took up polygamy because the men were being killed by the mobs. The then surviving men married multiple wives because the widows and fatherless children needed fathers.
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1.IF you look at the bible many of the different prophets had convient visions that accomplished there needs.
2. Joseph Smith not brigham young was the founder of the LDS(mormon) faith.
3. Mormons had it just as bad as any minority in the 19th century. The mormons started in new york then were forced to go to pennsylvania, and then moved to missouri. They were then forced out of missouri, it was so bad in missouri that the Governor of the State of missouri put out an extermination order for any mormons(Meaning it was legally ok to kill any mormon within the state of missouri). That law wasnt repealled until 1972. Then they moved to ohio, they were then driven out of ohio. After the mormons were forced out of ohio they moved to illinois and built the city nauvoo, the mormons were then forced out of illinois and the city nauvoo(which was bigger than chicago) was burned to the ground. It was after this that the mormons made there way to utah, then nothing more than a desert. The reason that mormons when to utah because it was outside the authority of the US government. And when i say that the mormons left a state i mean that violent mobs physically chased them out of the state. That is why the mormons took up polygamy because the men were being killed by the mobs. The then surviving men married multiple wives because the widows and fatherless children needed fathers.
monster restating what I just posted. ;D
Except for one thing . . . Joseph Smith married multiple wives before the mobs started. One of the reasons the mobs started attacking was b/c of polygamy.
And yeah, I know that Joseph Smith's wife supposedly denied that he engaged in plural marriage.
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I'm not sure how much of a distinction this is, but isn't one of the differences between Mormons and Christians on the historical race issue is many Christians contorted a Bible verse or two to justify slavery, while the alleged inferiority of blacks was part of Mormon doctrine? I don't know that any major Christian denomination (Baptists, etc.) ever taught that Satan was black, the mark of Cain was black skin, blacks could not go to heaven, etc.? Maybe I'm splitting hairs . . . .
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I'm not sure how much of a distinction this is, but isn't one of the differences between Mormons and Christians on the historical race issue is many Christians contorted a Bible verse or two to justify slavery, while the alleged inferiority of blacks was part of Mormon doctrine? I don't know that any major Christian denomination (Baptists, etc.) ever taught that Satan was black, the mark of Cain was black skin, blacks could not go to heaven, etc.? Maybe I'm splitting hairs . . . .
The mormon church has never said that satan was black.(Satan doesnt have a physical body) The church has never stated that blacks could not go to heaven. And the mormon church has been against slavery form the beginning, that is one of the reason we were forced out of missouri, because the church was becoming to powerful politicaly(because of the large numbers of mormons in the state) and the church did not support slavery.
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...but if you do marry outside the church then you cannot get married in the temple. to get married in the temple then you have both must be worthy members of the church
And if you don't get married 'in the temple', then you're looked down upon by those who were.
And if you marry a non-member, then your family is categorized in the LDS system as a 'part-member family'.
Weirdos.
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Didn't Mormons teach that the mark of Cain was black skin?
Yes, they did.
But as with many of their original 'teachings', they've devoted the past 25-30 years to re-writing their history in a very cleverly scripted PR campaign.
If you look at Mormonism as a business, then it all begins to make sense.
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I have heard that Cains mark was his black skin, but that doesnt mean that white people are better or that black or people of colored are more sinful or anything like that. It just means that his mark was his black skin
True or False?
Mormonism teaches that Mormons are inherently superior to Native Americans (you call them Lamanites).
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I think the LDS have eschewed the position that blacks are inferior, just like they did plural marriage. things evolve.
They did so, because changing their position(s) helps to bring more money in.
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So we do accept everybody and eveybody is equal.
Typical Mormon bullshit.
When's the last time you observed a little girl passing the sacrament? Just wondering.
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Everybody does
The Mormons waited until 1978, after they'd had sufficient time to evaluate the positive economic impact of treating Blacks more fairly.
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Garments are church-issued, you have to buy them at special stores. They consist of very thin white undershirt and very thin white underwear(basically thin boxers)
They ought to be free for tithes-payers.
Just one more way to control the money...
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How much do they cost? Do you have to purchase a set number? Do the women have to wear the undershirts also?
They aren't that expensive, but you have to go to the church store to get them. And they're not out on display either - they're kept safe 'in the back'. And the part Rommel didn't mention is that you actually have to have special permission to even buy them. If you don't carry your 'temple recommend' card with you to the store, you will not be allowed to purchase the sacred garments.
There are some more modernized styles available now that allow people to wear them while participating in sports, etc., but here are the basic looks:
(http://www.mormoncurtain.com/img/mormon_garments1.jpg)
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_garments.html
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...One really has to wonder how the fck does a religion get a whole state in the U.S...That alone is pretty strange...
Timing.
Remember, no one else wanted Utah at the time, so it was the perfect place to settle.
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Yep that about summs up the hypocrisy. Blast you then, but come with open arms now, and play pretend, by not taclking what The Founder Brigham Young (and his poly past) had said. "Go get more black souls, because they are lost due to their inherent inferiority"
I know the game
Just because someones "wears the garments" does not make them more applicable to enter "a house of God", than one who doesn't any under wear at all. One could wear those garments and shoot up the church. And the main fact that there regulatory "underwear", shows the perverse natural of their intrusion ino one's personal life, and trying to make one feel bad about it. And what happens if a woman say's yes she is wearing the "garments< but she is not, and they know she is lying? Do they check her?
I couldn't have said it better myself.
As always, well done, Parker.
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3. Why should Mormons have to be perfect?
Because they're the ones who teach that you're going to 'become God' after you die.
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And yeah, I know that Joseph Smith's wife supposedly denied that he engaged in plural marriage.
And today, in 2007, the 'good and faithful' Mormon women will tell you that they're totally content with their role in their church...that they're not lower on the totem pole than the men.
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I'm not sure how much of a distinction this is, but isn't one of the differences between Mormons and Christians on the historical race issue is many Christians contorted a Bible verse or two to justify slavery, while the alleged inferiority of blacks was part of Mormon doctrine? I don't know that any major Christian denomination (Baptists, etc.) ever taught that Satan was black, the mark of Cain was black skin, blacks could not go to heaven, etc.? Maybe I'm splitting hairs . . . .
The Mormons have 3 levels of 'heaven', with the 'celestial kingdom' being the highest. As a male, you could not ascend to that highest level unless you held the 'priesthood' and prior to 1978, if you were non-White, the 'priesthood' was not available to you.
What you mention may be a difference between the two, but one thing that Mormons stress in their classes is that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers in a literal sense and furthermore, that every single person who has ever lived or will live is also the literal brother or sister of both Jesus and Lucifer. Whether other Christian religions believe/teach that or not, I don't think anyone else dwells on it like the Mormons do.
The primary difference between Christians and Mormons, however, is that Christians believe God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost to be one and the same, while Mormons believe that God (aka Heavenly Father), Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are 3 distinctly separate entities.
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The church has never stated that blacks could not go to heaven.
That's a misleading statement.
And the mormon church has been against slavery form the beginning...
Missionaries, anyone? ;)
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The Mormons have 3 levels of 'heaven', with the 'celestial kingdom' being the highest. As a male, you could not ascend to that highest level unless you held the 'priesthood' and prior to 1978, if you were non-White, the 'priesthood' was not available to you.
What you mention may be a difference between the two, but one thing that Mormons stress in their classes is that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers in a literal sense and furthermore, that every single person who has ever lived or will live is also the literal brother or sister of both Jesus and Lucifer. Whether other Christian religions believe/teach that or not, I don't think anyone else dwells on it like the Mormons do.
The primary difference between Christians and Mormons, however, is that Christians believe God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost to be one and the same, while Mormons believe that God (aka Heavenly Father), Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are 3 distinctly separate entities.
Could blacks get to the first two levels of heaven before the Mormon race revelation?
The more I read about their old views on race, the more disturbing it becomes. I do want to stress I have had nothing but good experiences with Mormons, but this race stuff is pretty bad:
Tenth LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote, "It was well understood by the early elders of the Church that the mark which was placed on Cain and which his posterity inherited was the black skin. The Book of Moses informs us that Cain and his descendants were black" (The Way to Perfection, p.107).
. . .
Brigham Young taught a much greater extreme. In a sermon given on March 8, 1863, Young stated, "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so" (Journal of Discourses, 10:110).
The Devil's Representative?
On two separate occasions, third LDS President John Taylor stated that it was God's plan to allow the seed of Cain to remain on the earth in order for the devil to be properly represented. On August 28, 1881, he declared, "And after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God" (Journal of Discourses 22:304).
The following year, Taylor reiterated his former comment when he said, "Why is it, in fact, that we should have a devil? Why did the Lord not kill him long ago? Because he could not do without him. He needed the devil and a great many of those who do his bidding to keep men straight, that we may learn to place our dependence on God, and trust in Him, and to observe his laws and keep his commandments. When he destroyed the inhabitants of the antediluvian world, he suffered a descendant of Cain to come through the flood in order that he might be properly represented upon the earth" (Journal of Discourses 23:336).
It isn't difficult to understand why many would look upon the LDS Church as a racist organization. However, Latter-day Saints would reject such a notion since, in their minds, the leaders were merely reflecting what they erroneously thought was the will of God. Mormons laid the responsibility for this doctrine on God Himself, not the personal bigotry, either real or imagined, of any particular Latter-day Saint. For instance, Mark Peterson said, "When He [God] placed the mark on Cain, He engaged in segregation. When he told Enoch not to preach the gospel to the descendants of Cain who were black, the Lord engaged in segregation. When He cursed the descendants of Cain as to the Priesthood, He engaged in segregation" (Race Problems, p.15).
Mormons were taught that even though Blacks could never be exalted and become Gods, they could enter the celestial kingdom. In his Race Problems as they Affect the Church speech (p.17), Peterson said, "If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get a celestial resurrection." Slavery revisited?
. . .
http://www.mrm.org/topics/miscellaneous/black-skin-and-seed-cain
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Tre is correct on certain aspects but in others he is completely wrong
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... in others he is completely wrong
Name 'em! ;)
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The more I read about their old views on race, the more disturbing it becomes. I do want to stress I have had nothing but good experiences with Mormons, but this race stuff is pretty bad:
I agree.
Most of the Mormons I know are wonderful, loving, kind, and generous people and it has been an honor and a pleasure to know them.
Mormons were taught that even though Blacks could never be exalted and become Gods, they could enter the celestial kingdom. In his Race Problems as they Affect the Church speech (p.17), Peterson said, "If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get a celestial resurrection."
Ok, Rommel is correct - I was wrong on that point.
According to Mormonism, I knew that Blacks would be resurrected - Mormonism teaches that everyone will be resurrected, so long as they haven't suffered 'spiritual death' - but I was not aware that the celestial kingdom was open to them at all.
But to go as servants?? Are you kidding me???
Wow. I've been studying this stuff for a long time, but just when I think I've been shocked for the last time, they come up with a new one. lol
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If you don't carry your 'temple recommend' card with you to the store, you will not be allowed to purchase the sacred garments.
(http://www.mormoncurtain.com/img/mormon_garments1.jpg)
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_garments.html
I believe my temple recommend card would be permanently "lost."
genrommel, is the need for the "garments" taken only out of the Book of Mormon or Mormon Tradition? Or do they reference anything in the bible when stating a need for the "garments?" If it's in the bible, to what scripture do they refer?
What you mention may be a difference between the two, but one thing that Mormons stress in their classes is that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers in a literal sense and furthermore, that every single person who has ever lived or will live is also the literal brother or sister of both Jesus and Lucifer.
genrommel or Tre, is this idea only from the Book of Mormon or Mormon Tradition? If they claim it's in the bible do you know the scripture reference please?
Another question. The bible and the Book of Mormon contradict each other in several areas. How does the Mormon church explain this? I assume they say the Book of Mormon has more authority than the bible? Why use the bible at all since they teach completely different things?
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SOrry it has taken so long to get back to you guys i have been out of town
1. First the garments are a representive of wearing the armor of god.
Eph 6: 11-18(New testament)
11 Put on the whole aarmour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we awrestle not bagainst cflesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the drulers of the edarkness of this world, against spiritual fwickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins agirt about with btruth, and having on the cbreastplate of drighteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of apeace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of afaith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery bdarts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of asalvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 aPraying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all bperseverance and supplication for all saints;
2, I dont know if there is a scriptureal reference to jesus and lucifer being brothers. But everybody is a son or daughter of god, so that make jesus and lucifer brothers, as well as making jesus and lucifer my brother.
3. First the book of mormon and the bible dont contradict each other, the compliment each other. And we study the bible because it is still the word of god. And we belive that christ is the head of our church so we need to study christ and his teachings
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thanx for asking me, stella >:(
the connection b/w Lucifer and Satan:
lucifer = satan, in later translations of the older hebrew texts. But, in the original
Lucifer = morning star in Isaiah.
Jesus = morning star in Revelation.
HOWEVER, JS was probably trying to say that jesus and satan are brothers, which is skating on thin ice for both Christians and Mormons. B/c the trinity is a hard concept to explain, and so it is unclear as to how Jesus coexists w the father, and yet is the son. No Christian can come up w a watertight explanation for that, and no Mormon can come up for a watertight explanation equating Jesus w Satan, a created being for sure, who is not part of the trinity.
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AS far as mormons go we believe that god, jesus christ, and the holy spirit are all 3 separate beings, they are not the same person.
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AS far as mormons go we believe that god, jesus christ, and the holy spirit are all 3 separate beings, they are not the same person.
Correct, Catholics believe in the three being the same. They call it the trilogy. Second the Book of morman and Bible do not contradict. I hear alor of people say the book of morman is a fake of the bible and thatit is wrong to have a book of such. But the bible was written where? (The middle east) it is a record from the people of that time. Well the book of morman is written where? (south america and the western side of the world. So it is just the record from the people who were here. Funny thing to think that they made a record. I think being LDS you get as much hastle as Pit bulls and Pit bull owners...
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The primary difference between Christians and Mormons, however, is that Christians believe God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost to be one and the same, while Mormons believe that God (aka Heavenly Father), Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are 3 distinctly separate entities.
Not so...Most believe that they are separate. JW's for example.
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People are free to believe whatever they want to believe
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Who is "Elohim" and how do Mormons view Elohim in relation to the trinity?
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Who is "Elohim" and how do Mormons view Elohim in relation to the trinity?
are you asking b/c of the Sun god connection?
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Who is "Elohim" and how do Mormons view Elohim in relation to the trinity?
As far as I know, Elohim is 'the guy', but they do not discuss that name in the weekly sacrament meetings ('church', to the non-Mormon), nor is there any mention of him in the Gospel Principles (basic 'Sunday School' for new members or for those who want a refresher) classes.
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People are free to believe whatever they want to believe
I absolutely believe everyone has the right to be wrong.
;)
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genrommel or Tre, is this idea only from the Book of Mormon or Mormon Tradition? If they claim it's in the bible do you know the scripture reference please?
Growing up in the South, I attended a regular ol' Methodist church. My family wasn't religiously strict, but I was in church every Sunday and not once was I ever taught that Satan is my 'brother' and if I had heard that, I probably would not have wanted to return.
Speaking of, my kid came home from her Primary (Sunday School for kids) class a couple of weeks ago talking about some man 'cutting the people's arms off'. I dismissed her statement and told her that we don't talk like that. She replied that it's 'in the scriptures' and I told her that it wasn't true and again, that we don't talk about stuff like that, because it's not a very nice thing to say.
My daughter is 4 and I do not approve of violent images or discussions in our home. Sure, she knows what it means to 'kill' a spider, but that's as far as it needs to go. I'm going to speak with her Sunday school teacher tomorrow and will probably need to have a sit-down with their bishop as well, because I don't want her being taught that bullshit.
Another question. The bible and the Book of Mormon contradict each other in several areas. How does the Mormon church explain this? I assume they say the Book of Mormon has more authority than the bible? Why use the bible at all since they teach completely different things?
The Bible is used because it's better for business to use it than to ignore it.
For most of the 19th and 20th centuries, 'the Church' did not even desire for its members to be called 'Christians', because they believed the average Christians to be spiritually inferior and felt that assuming that name would be to taint their own profile.
Over time, though, they've completely reversed their position on that, primarily because claiming to be 'Christian' is very good for business.
Mormons will openly admit, however, that the Book of Mormon is 'less flawed' than the Bible.
And during a testimony meeting, you will hear 'I know the Book of Mormon is true' half-a-dozen times, but I don't think I've ever heard one of them say 'I know the Bible is true'. Hmmm...
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Not so...Most believe that they are separate. JW's for example.
I'm talking about real Christians - Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc.
They're all about the Holy Trinity, and it's a fundamental belief.
I don't know what to consider JWs, but they haven't done nearly as good a job in escaping their cult roots as the Mormons have.
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2, I dont know if there is a scriptureal reference to jesus and lucifer being brothers. But everybody is a son or daughter of god, so that make jesus and lucifer brothers, as well as making jesus and lucifer my brother.
I'm pretty certain that there is no scripture reference to Jesus and lucifer being brothers.
The bible states that Jesus is God and lucifer is an angel (a created being). That's not the same and not brothers.
3. First the book of mormon and the bible dont contradict each other, the compliment each other. And we study the bible because it is still the word of god. And we belive that christ is the head of our church so we need to study christ and his teachings
But the bible states that Jesus is God. ...I don't think Mormons believe that?
Also, the bible states that faith Jesus (and all that entails) is the way to spending eternity w/God. That by believing (and all that entails)...you go to heaven when you die....and if you reject Him you go to hell.
Don't Mormon's think that all people go to heaven but there are diff. levels of heaven depending on if you were a good Mormon or not?
Here are some other differences (from carm.org):
GOD
Christian
God has always been God (Psalm 90:2; Isaiah 57:15)
Mormon
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345
Christian
God is a spirit without flesh and bones (John 4:24; Luke 24:39)
Mormon
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's" (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22. Compare with Alma 18:26-27; 22:9-10)
"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p.38
TRINITY
Christian
The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in all the universe and that He exists in three, eternal, simultaneous person: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Mormon
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage p.35
JESUS
Christian
Jesus was born of the virgin Mary (Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23)
Mormon
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8: p. 115)
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine ," by Bruce McConkie, p. 547
Christian
Jesus is the eternal Son. He is second person of the Trinity. He has two natures. He is God in flesh and man (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2;9) and the creator of all things (Col. 1:15-17)
Mormon
Jesus is the literal spirit-brother of Lucifer, a creation. (Gospel Through the Ages, p.15
SALVATION
Christian
Salvation is the forgiveness of sin and deliverance of the sinner from damnation. It is a free gift received by God's grace (Eph. 2:8; Rom. 6:23) and cannot be earned (Rom. 11:6).
Mormon
Salvation has a double meaning in Mormonism: universal resurrection and . . .
"The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79.
Christian
Salvation (forgiveness of sins) is not by works (Eph. 2:8; Rom. 4:5; Gal. 2:21)
Mormon
"As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements -- 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.'" (Articles of Faith p. 79)
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thanx for asking me, stella >:(
lol
sorry Al-Gebra :-[
thanks everyone for all the information :)