Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Vince B on June 06, 2007, 06:46:05 PM
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Over the months here at Getbig, resident pro rep Bob has accused me of being out of the loop and uniformed about bodybuilding and especially how the IFBB works.
My question to both Lee and Bob is can they shed some light on how this sport is run. What is it that old-timers and those out of the loop don't know? Lee is outspoken and says the IFBB does a lot of stuff that is not fair. They leak the results after the prejudging and so on. The IFBB selectively enforces some rules and not others. For example, Lee was suspended for competing in an unsanctioned show. Lee said the IFBB doesn't enforce the rules re drug testing.
Who actually is in control of the pro division and is this separate from the IFBB proper? Some suggest that Jim Manion rules the pro division and Keith is always suggesting that Bob has to call Jim to find out what to say, etc. Is this true or is there a committee that makes the rules and decisions?
I know we won't hear any disclosures from Bob but Lee might come to the party and tell us how things have worked in the IFBB in the past. I am sure there must be some good stories out there. Does Lee think the IFBB is a fair organization or is it mainly a business set up to control bodybuilders and bodybuilding?
What cannot be denied is the depth of loyalty that Bob C has shown to the pro division and Manion. According to Bob, he is fixing the little things that need to be done but by and large the IFBB pro division is doing a good job and he goes out of his way to explain that to even old hasbeens like myself. No matter what charge is levelled at the IFBB Bob clears that up and explains how the IFBB can do no wrong. I swear this guy is the patron saint of bodybuilding and we should all feel privileged that the IFBB is there for us.
Bob, come clean on what you really think and don't wear your gold blazer and tie while you are telling us the truth.
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WELL LIKE I HAVE SAID ...I HAVE ALWAYS HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE CONTROL THING...YES EVEN WHEN WAYNE RAN IT BOB :)........I JUST DONT LIKE THE RULE BOOK .....WHY EVEN HAVE IT TO COVER THIER ASS I GUESS.....BUT THIS IS A NO WIN BATTLE TILL THE ATHLETES ALL STAND TOGETHER.......BOB TRIES TO GET THINGS DOEN BUT THE IFBB WILL ONLY ALLOW CERTAIN THINGS TO PASS ......TIMES ARE CHANGING TIME TO SIT DOWN AND RE WRITE THE RULE FOR THIS DECADE...AND ONCE WRITTEN STICK TO THEM ALL OF THEM....NO PICK AND CHOOSING.........I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A PANEL..BOB COULD HEAD IT BUT HE NEEDS MAYBE 3 OR 4 MORE AS WELL....JUST LIKE THE IFBB HAS A COMMITTEE SO SHOULD THE ATHLETES.........WE KNOW STUFF GOES ON IN THE IFBB AND PEOPLE GET BLACK BALLED THATS WHY NO ATHLETE WANTS TO PUT THIER NAME TO ANYTHING (WHY IS THAT) IF THERE IS NONE OF THAT HAPPENING WHY WOULD THEY WORRY.....???? ITS TIME TO CLEAN HOUSE......LIKE I HAVE SAID MY ATTACKS ARE NOT ANYONE IN PARTICULAR IN THE IFBB...BUT MORE THE IFBB ITSELF AND THOSE STUPID RULES AND CODE OF CONDUCT................
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the rule book should say:
you can do anything you want (porn, deal drugs, be a hooker etc) so long as you suck up to the brass we won't ban you.
hell samir bannount punched out an ifbb promoter, went and competed in the nabba worlds the next week and was back in the ifbb 5 months later with no penalty!... in fact he won a show that year!
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From the IFBB rule book. It is not clear if these rules apply to professional athletes.
6.3 Breakdown of Fees:
The IFBB will receive any and all fees for television and/or video
and will normally apportion said fees as follows:
1. 30% to the Organizer; and
2. 70% to the IFBB.
10.2 Media Waiver of Liability:
By registering as a competitor at an International
Competition, the participant agrees that his or her person
and/or likeness may be filmed, videotaped, photographed
and/or otherwise recorded, by electronic or other means,
for use by the IFBB in promoting the IFBB and the sport
of Bodybuilding, Fitness and Body Fitness.
11.2 Declaration:
As a participant in an International Competition, an athlete agrees
to abide by the IFBB rules governing doping controls. Should an
athlete be found guilty of an anti-doping rule violation, the athlete
agrees to accept whatever penalties or sanctions may be imposed
pursuant to the IFBB Anti-Doping Rules. The athlete agrees that
the IFBB may impose sanctions immediately the results of the “A”
sample are known. This agreement does not exclude the athlete’s
right of appeal.
13.10 Accuracy in Judging:
The following rules pertain to judging accuracy:
1. The Code of Ethics obligate our sport’s officials to ensure
that all athletes are adjudicated by the most qualified
judges available. The IFBB Judges Committee is
empowered to take whatever measures it deems
necessary to ensure that this obligation is met by
selecting and panelling only those judges who meet or
exceed the minimum accepted standard of judging
accuracy approved by the IFBB.
2. The minimum acceptable standard is an overall average
score of 65% (70% at Prejudging; 60% at Finals).
3. Judging accuracy is calculated using the “Deviation
Method”. This method calculates the “deviation” between
an individual judge’s placement of an athlete and the
entire regular judge’s panel placement of that same
athlete.
14.1 Judging Attire:
Judges shall be attired as follows:
1. The official IFBB uniform for male judges at all
International Competitions consists of a blue blazer with
the official IFBB crest on the left breast pocket, pale blue
or white shirt with the official IFBB tie, grey dress pants,
black socks and black dress shoes.
2. The official IFBB uniform for female judges at all
International Competitions consists of a blue blazer with
the official IFBB crest on the left breast pocket, pale blue
or white blouse (official IFBB tie optional), grey skirt or
dress pants, and black dress shoes.
3. The Chief IFBB Judge has authority to remove from the
panel any judge who is not correctly dressed in the official
IFBB uniform.
4. The IFBB may adopt a Relaxed Dress Code e.g. a golf or
polo shirt with IFBB logo on the left breast, which may be
worn by judges, expediters and other IFBB officials
working a competition. The decision on when to wear
Relaxed Dress is made by the IFBB Chief Official on a
case-by-case basis e.g. tropical climates or hot conditions.
14.5 Conduct of Judges:
Once the judging panel is seated, the Judges Secretary will remind
the judges of the rules of conduct, said rules which must be
strictly followed throughout the Prejudging and Finals. Under
penalty of immediate dismissal from the judging panel, no judge
will:
1. Converse with any other judge, or judges;
2. Attempt to influence the decisions of any other judge, or
judges;
3. Take photographs while the judging is in progress;
4. Coach any competitor, or competitors; or
5. Judge while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or
consume alcoholic beverages while judging.
17.1 Procedures:
11. At the discretion of the IFBB Chief Judge, the top 6
finalists may be announced after the Prejudging and
Article 20 – Finals: Round Three (Compulsory Poses and
Posedown)
20.1 Procedures:
7. During the Prejudging and Finals, the Judges Secretary
will be responsible for collecting the individual mark
sheets from the judges and, together with the IFBB Chief
Judge, will scrutinize the marks for the purpose of
determining their accuracy. If any judge has awarded
marks that are greatly at variance with those of the other
judges, the Chief Judge may question that judge for an
explanation of his or her marks. The IFBB Chief Judge has
authority to remove from the panel any judge who is
unfairly biased or incompetent, or who engages in
misconduct or unacceptable behaviour.
before the Finals.
IFBB CODE OF ETHICS
7. to work for the IFBB, not against it, in promoting its
values, morals and ethics; to exercise our right of
protest in a courteous, respectful manner, following the
proper chain of command; to refrain from innuendo,
malicious gossip and rumour-mongering; to refrain from
personal attacks against any other Member of the IFBB.
8. to continue striving for bodily perfection and correct
moral principles.
Officials:
We, the officials, realizing that our policies, decisions, and
actions reflect on the good name of the sport, and realizing the
responsibility thereby placed upon us, pledge ourselves:
1. to serve all members, be they athletes, judges officials,
or other administrators, according to their needs.
Notes:
Clearly the deviation method should be scrapped because it enforces agreement. That is not what judging should be about. Pick independent, competent, experienced, unbiased judges and let them score athletes. The very process of rating judges by deviation is going to generate conformity. That is why judges are afraid to go against who others are placing high.
They even have a rule where the officials should speak to any judge who deviates in his scoring. This clearly is improper and makes the judging invalid.
Did Bob get official approval to wear his relaxed dress at the Colorado?
Is it okay for Bob and Shawn to do personal attacks against non-IFBB members?
Does the IFBB get 70% of money for media broadcasts even of the Olympia? No wonder promoters can't make much money.
According to the pledge of officials Bob should have looked after Lee Priest's needs re being able to compete in the PDI and represented him to the IFBB pro division.
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Look at the rule book and it tells you what they're really all about:
There's a section on what judges have to WEAR
BUT...
There's no section on how to properly judge a physique or what wins any of the rounds.
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WE KNOW STUFF GOES ON IN THE IFBB AND PEOPLE GET BLACK BALLED THATS WHY NO ATHLETE WANTS TO PUT THIER NAME TO ANYTHING (WHY IS THAT)
Yes its true. If a few more names would wipe off their vaginas and follow you , it would change pretty fast. But that little pro card (that you PAY for!?!) has them all whipped.
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I read somewhere on here that Sean was dissing Milos at the show. What did he do and isn't that against the rules.
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Where is ubiquitous Bob? Seems to me he always comments on IFBB threads.
What Lee says is a serious indictment of how the IFBB does business. Everyone worries about him/herselves and to heck with everyone else. Thus, the IFBB divides and conquers and the bodybuilders, despite huge muscles, are led around like sheep.
By the time anyone is advanced enough to qualify for a pro card they know how the system works. Don't rock the boat. Agree with IFBB officials and you will be okay. It all smacks of some insider private club where it is hard to qualify but easy to be booted out. The sad thing is few athletes can be truly professional and earn a living from the sport. They all keep their mouths shut because the few contests with big prize money will be out of reach if they do the wrong thing.
Lee is right about the whole sport needing a rethink about where they are going and how to achieve more recognition and support. Bodybuilding hasn't grown like it promised to after Pumping Iron. Arnold made it big and that is about it. The drugs have tarnished the professional competitions and allowing breast augmentation has helped ruin most of the women's events. The whole sport has evolved to a rather phony and perhaps unhealthy image. Who out there would encourage their son or daughter to train to become Mr or Ms Olympia? I sure haven't and won't with my children who are adults now. Even kids know bodybuilders use drugs. Getbiggers are so brainwashed about the necessity to use drugs that they can't imagine the sport without it.
I really can't see how to change what we have now. Ben set up a system that guaranteed his presidency for life. That system doesn't invite either change or excellence and that is the trouble. It is not democratic because most important positions are appointed. Even the pro rep is appointed, for goodness sake. The pro rep cannot possibly represent the athletes because he was appointed by the IFBB. Bob surely must know this but he is never going to speak his mind. Instead he has become the master of sophistry and believes he is dismissing all objections to what the IFBB has done. The closed shop of the IFBB is so tight that new ideas and innovation come from the top down and not the other way round. The system of appointing regional vice-presidents must be changed to let countries and areas vote for the people they want. All positions in the IFBB have to be removeable. Anything less is the opposite of democracy.
We will see more of the same because nothing major will change or can change. That is what is really sad. We are wasting out time even discussing this issue.
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bob and lee,
which one of you has banged more fitness girls?
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Over the months here at Getbig, resident pro rep Bob has accused me of being out of the loop and uniformed about bodybuilding and especially how the IFBB works.
My question to both Lee and Bob is can they shed some light on how this sport is run. What is it that old-timers and those out of the loop don't know? Lee is outspoken and says the IFBB does a lot of stuff that is not fair. They leak the results after the prejudging and so on. The IFBB selectively enforces some rules and not others. For example, Lee was suspended for competing in an unsanctioned show. Lee said the IFBB doesn't enforce the rules re drug testing.
Who actually is in control of the pro division and is this separate from the IFBB proper? Some suggest that Jim Manion rules the pro division and Keith is always suggesting that Bob has to call Jim to find out what to say, etc. Is this true or is there a committee that makes the rules and decisions?
I know we won't hear any disclosures from Bob but Lee might come to the party and tell us how things have worked in the IFBB in the past. I am sure there must be some good stories out there. Does Lee think the IFBB is a fair organization or is it mainly a business set up to control bodybuilders and bodybuilding?
What cannot be denied is the depth of loyalty that Bob C has shown to the pro division and Manion. According to Bob, he is fixing the little things that need to be done but by and large the IFBB pro division is doing a good job and he goes out of his way to explain that to even old hasbeens like myself. No matter what charge is levelled at the IFBB Bob clears that up and explains how the IFBB can do no wrong. I swear this guy is the patron saint of bodybuilding and we should all feel privileged that the IFBB is there for us.
Bob, come clean on what you really think and don't wear your gold blazer and tie while you are telling us the truth.
Where is ubiquitous Bob? Seems to me he always comments on IFBB threads.
What Lee says is a serious indictment of how the IFBB does business. Everyone worries about him/herselves and to heck with everyone else. Thus, the IFBB divides and conquers and the bodybuilders, despite huge muscles, are led around like sheep.
By the time anyone is advanced enough to qualify for a pro card they know how the system works. Don't rock the boat. Agree with IFBB officials and you will be okay. It all smacks of some insider private club where it is hard to qualify but easy to be booted out. The sad thing is few athletes can be truly professional and earn a living from the sport. They all keep their mouths shut because the few contests with big prize money will be out of reach if they do the wrong thing.
Lee is right about the whole sport needing a rethink about where they are going and how to achieve more recognition and support. Bodybuilding hasn't grown like it promised to after Pumping Iron. Arnold made it big and that is about it. The drugs have tarnished the professional competitions and allowing breast augmentation has helped ruin most of the women's events. The whole sport has evolved to a rather phony and perhaps unhealthy image. Who out there would encourage their son or daughter to train to become Mr or Ms Olympia? I sure haven't and won't with my children who are adults now. Even kids know bodybuilders use drugs. Getbiggers are so brainwashed about the necessity to use drugs that they can't imagine the sport without it.
I really can't see how to change what we have now. Ben set up a system that guaranteed his presidency for life. That system doesn't invite either change or excellence and that is the trouble. It is not democratic because most important positions are appointed. Even the pro rep is appointed, for goodness sake. The pro rep cannot possibly represent the athletes because he was appointed by the IFBB. Bob surely must know this but he is never going to speak his mind. Instead he has become the master of sophistry and believes he is dismissing all objections to what the IFBB has done. The closed shop of the IFBB is so tight that new ideas and innovation come from the top down and not the other way round. The system of appointing regional vice-presidents must be changed to let countries and areas vote for the people they want. All positions in the IFBB have to be removeable. Anything less is the opposite of democracy.
We will see more of the same because nothing major will change or can change. That is what is really sad. We are wasting out time even discussing this issue.
I'm not reading all that bullshit. Do you have a life dude? Go outside and get you some pussy (or dick) which ever you prefer.
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bob and lee,
which one of you has banged more fitness girls?
dont know the answer to that one, but Bob wins if your talking about which one has blown Joe Weider more ...
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i still get pissed thinking about the interview with Lee, Shawn, and Bob where they were taggteaming Lee about how it is against the rules to compete in another federation....Lee would bring up that it is also against the rules to use illegal substances....but while Bob(full of illegal substances) and Shawn(just a fat fuck at the time) kept avoiding the fact that breaking one rule is no different than breaking them all.....Bob and Shawn just made themselves looks like shitheads
sure lee can be a rebel, but who fucking cares....it is the true individuals that should inspire people, not the hyporcrits that sit around and jerk each other off with their bullshit
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I'm not reading all that bullshit. Do you have a life dude? Go outside and get you some pussy (or dick) which ever you prefer.
Some blowhard shows up to class for four years and allasudden we NEED his sophisticated perspective on everything.
Vince, are your self-indulgent Bernardo Bertolucci epics so packed with fucking insight you can't edit yourself?
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Vince is the only intelligent, well educated , former successful pro that has ever graced our boards...
keep it going Vince...loving the stuff you are writing...real wordsmithery!!
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Over the months here at Getbig, resident pro rep Bob has accused me of being out of the loop and uniformed about bodybuilding and especially how the IFBB works.
Correct
My question to both Lee and Bob is can they shed some light on how this sport is run. What is it that old-timers and those out of the loop don't know? Lee is outspoken and says the IFBB does a lot of stuff that is not fair. They leak the results after the prejudging and so on. The IFBB selectively enforces some rules and not others. For example, Lee was suspended for competing in an unsanctioned show. Lee said the IFBB doesn't enforce the rules re drug testing.
Lee is incorrect...anytime the IFBB has implemented drug testing, the have enforced the rules governing the drug tests and anyone's subsequent failing by way of fine/ suspention.
Who actually is in control of the pro division and is this separate from the IFBB proper? Some suggest that Jim Manion rules the pro division and Keith is always suggesting that Bob has to call Jim to find out what to say, etc. Is this true or is there a committee that makes the rules and decisions?
Jim Manion is the head of the pro league...to suggest that I call him to answer to anyone here, is ludicrious at best...I can handle myself quite well and speak for myself.
I know we won't hear any disclosures from Bob but Lee might come to the party and tell us how things have worked in the IFBB in the past. I am sure there must be some good stories out there. Does Lee think the IFBB is a fair organization or is it mainly a business set up to control bodybuilders and bodybuilding?
Lee is the last person that should be complaining about what opportunities being a member of the IFBB has brought, as he has been very successful withing the organization and made a pretty good living from it....
What cannot be denied is the depth of loyalty that Bob C has shown to the pro division and Manion. According to Bob, he is fixing the little things that need to be done but by and large the IFBB pro division is doing a good job and he goes out of his way to explain that to even old hasbeens like myself. No matter what charge is levelled at the IFBB Bob clears that up and explains how the IFBB can do no wrong. I swear this guy is the patron saint of bodybuilding and we should all feel privileged that the IFBB is there for us.
The IFBB is not without fault, thus my trying to set up a union for the bodybuilders a few years ago, the efforts from Shawn and I to have representation and a voice, and my continuing work on behalf of the athletes to secure a better future for all pro's...
Bob, come clean on what you really think and don't wear your gold blazer and tie while you are telling us the truth.
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Bob
Explain it to me....& some of the idiots on here (Vince)
That you are the IFBB Pro Athlete's Rep....not the IFBB's "Corporate Rep."
Either they're really dumb....or their on to something that nobody else knows.
Personally....I think Vince is just upset that he didn't invent the position, although, he might just try to say he did back in the late 60's about the same time he was giving Arnold posing advice.
;)
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From the IFBB rule book. It is not clear if these rules apply to professional athletes.
Clearly the deviation method should be scrapped because it enforces agreement. That is not what judging should be about. Pick independent, competent, experienced, unbiased judges and let them score athletes. The very process of rating judges by deviation is going to generate conformity. That is why judges are afraid to go against who others are placing high.
They even have a rule where the officials should speak to any judge who deviates in his scoring. This clearly is improper and makes the judging invalid.
I'm not a big fan of the current judging system, and have voiced my opinion on the matter. I have also made reccomondations to change it, some of which has been accepted and adopted into the new format.Did Bob get official approval to wear his relaxed dress at the Colorado?
I'm not an official...I don't have to wear "official" dress code.
Is it okay for Bob and Shawn to do personal attacks against non-IFBB members?
Sure...if the shoe fits.
Does the IFBB get 70% of money for media broadcasts even of the Olympia? No wonder promoters can't make much money.
There are no media broadcasts (TV/PPV)..and I'm not so sure there has ever been a profit TO be shared from one in the past.
According to the pledge of officials Bob should have looked after Lee Priest's needs re being able to compete in the PDI and represented him to the IFBB pro division.
Once again...I'm not an official. That being said...Lee never requested my help, and no one else shared his notion. I did explain to Lee, via this very website, that they would never change the rule for him (or for anyone else) and what the consequences of his actions be...he chose to ignore my advices.[/color]
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You shot Vinces post to shit with those answers Bob,not that it wasn`t shit to begin with.
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Where is ubiquitous Bob? Seems to me he always comments on IFBB threads.
What Lee says is a serious indictment of how the IFBB does business. Everyone worries about him/herselves and to heck with everyone else. Thus, the IFBB divides and conquers and the bodybuilders, despite huge muscles, are led around like sheep.
By the time anyone is advanced enough to qualify for a pro card they know how the system works. Don't rock the boat. Agree with IFBB officials and you will be okay. It all smacks of some insider private club where it is hard to qualify but easy to be booted out. The sad thing is few athletes can be truly professional and earn a living from the sport. They all keep their mouths shut because the few contests with big prize money will be out of reach if they do the wrong thing.
Lee is right about the whole sport needing a rethink about where they are going and how to achieve more recognition and support. Bodybuilding hasn't grown like it promised to after Pumping Iron. Arnold made it big and that is about it. The drugs have tarnished the professional competitions and allowing breast augmentation has helped ruin most of the women's events. The whole sport has evolved to a rather phony and perhaps unhealthy image. Who out there would encourage their son or daughter to train to become Mr or Ms Olympia? I sure haven't and won't with my children who are adults now. Even kids know bodybuilders use drugs. Getbiggers are so brainwashed about the necessity to use drugs that they can't imagine the sport without it.
I really can't see how to change what we have now. Ben set up a system that guaranteed his presidency for life. That system doesn't invite either change or excellence and that is the trouble. It is not democratic because most important positions are appointed. Even the pro rep is appointed, for goodness sake. The pro rep cannot possibly represent the athletes because he was appointed by the IFBB. Bob surely must know this but he is never going to speak his mind. Instead he has become the master of sophistry and believes he is dismissing all objections to what the IFBB has done. The closed shop of the IFBB is so tight that new ideas and innovation come from the top down and not the other way round. The system of appointing regional vice-presidents must be changed to let countries and areas vote for the people they want. All positions in the IFBB have to be removeable. Anything less is the opposite of democracy.
We will see more of the same because nothing major will change or can change. That is what is really sad. We are wasting out time even discussing this issue.
Mr Basile, your thoughts and questions here are well thought and well written. Let me point out the obvious here:
1. Bob works "with" the IFBB to represent the athletes , work the BB.com booth ,MC shows , etc.He is also an IFBB pro.
Lee P.is now with the PDI,a fledging new pro organization. Obviously Lee was not too satisfied with the IFBB , so he left for a new organization. I believe that Bob Chic sincerely believes that the IFBB is the best place to be a pro.
Why would he bad mouth an organizzation he belives in and enjoys being a part of???
2. Bob was an MC for pro bodybuilding.com at the Colorado pro. In that role,he would not be considered an offical in the IFBB, but doing the show under a seperate contract at an IFBB show ,I would assume.
In my opinion, Bob dressed and spoke in a prof manner at the show.
3. Yes, I agree with you 100% about the infamous "drug issue".
The sad reality is that big time men's pro bodybuilding might become more obscure and shows die off, if drugs were really banned. Obviously,the IFBB pro div knows this and is trying to walk the "tightrope" on this one.
Rather than actually do drug testing, they can simply keep a firm standard of judging towards more overall aesthetic bodies and discourage the extreme freak look.Colorado pro is a great example. Sure I think Rockel should have gotten the nod, but it was VERY close among the top guys at that show. Somebody had to win and Kai was a decent pick.
4. What pro menand woman do off stage and away from shows is THEIR business in my opinion. As long as they don't break any laws, I could care less what they do on their own time. I would love to see more follow the code of conduct as written, but don't care of they set their hair on fire in their spare time.
All the best Mr Basile, I may not agree with you on every issue, but I enjoy reading your posts and getting your thoughts. I have changed slightly over recent yrs and now simply want the sport to get better and bigger.
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Face the facts....
w/o "supplemantation"....Pro Bodybuilding would be shit.
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What I like about Chics answer to the drug testing was how he put "anytime the IFBB implements the drug testing" Why is it that they pick and choose when to enforce a rule. Aren't rules there for a reason. The reason they don't choose to enforce the rules ALL the time is because there would be no contests. Everyone would be found guilty of breaking the rules. The only reason they even put together the rules was so the IFBB could qualify as a legal international federation. There were certain things they had to do to be able to even talked to the IOC or other fancy organizations to become a part of. And one of them was to have a set of governing rules. That is the only reason they even put the rule book together. No one said they had to enforce them. The rule book is just there to make them look good. Kind of like "makeup", it's all fake.
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Face the facts....
w/o "supplemantation"....Pro Bodybuilding would be shit.
In theory mind you , if ( a big IF hehehe) more felt like I did and would support less freaky , less massive pros, it could be drug free. Sdly, the reality is that I am a small minority and you are correct that the pro sport might diminish as a drug free organization. I still plan to go to the shows, drugged, no drugs, whatever, etc.
In the end I am true bodybuilder and admire the pros , drugs or not.
My big issue now, is , as a fan, the overall quality of the show.
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What I like about Chics answer to the drug testing was how he put "anytime the IFBB implements the drug testing" Why is it that they pick and choose when to enforce a rule. Aren't rules there for a reason. The reason they don't choose to enforce the rules ALL the time is because there would be no contests. Everyone would be found guilty of breaking the rules. The only reason they even put together the rules was so the IFBB could qualify as a legal international federation. There were certain things they had to do to be able to even talked to the IOC or other fancy organizations to become a part of. And one of them was to have a set of governing rules. That is the only reason they even put the rule book together. No one said they had to enforce them. The rule book is just there to make them look good. Kind of like "makeup", it's all fake.
Actually I agree with you here.
However, most fans DEMAND to see bigger, freakier pros or they won't buy a ticket to attend. I would support it 100% if they really went drug free. I can understand why the IFBB would fear for the worst if the "did the right thing".
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What I like about Chics answer to the drug testing was how he put "anytime the IFBB implements the drug testing" Why is it that they pick and choose when to enforce a rule. Aren't rules there for a reason. The reason they don't choose to enforce the rules ALL the time is because there would be no contests. Everyone would be found guilty of breaking the rules. The only reason they even put together the rules was so the IFBB could qualify as a legal international federation. There were certain things they had to do to be able to even talked to the IOC or other fancy organizations to become a part of. And one of them was to have a set of governing rules. That is the only reason they even put the rule book together. No one said they had to enforce them. The rule book is just there to make them look good. Kind of like "makeup", it's all fake.
Actually, alot of times organizations or even coporations have rule books, guidelines, etc in writing for many reasons.
For one, it helps employees know the rules, whats good, whats bad, the ins & outs.
Although, alot of the times, I found they are establish not within the welfare & benefits of employees, but in the advantage of the corporation. As some old terminology from my Marine Corps days would suggest.....they are developed, designed, & implemented to cover the "six" of said corporation.
A business is in business for themselves...not for the employees. If they were, they would be passing out earnings & stocks.
Don't like it...go into business for yourself.....or...STFU.
;D
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Pro bodybuilding is in such a mess that perhaps it can't be saved. If everyone is juicing then there literally would be no competitors who would pass random drug testing. I think it is rather sad that a huge bodybuilder like Dennis James loses to the little guys. Dennis is simply following the precedent that Dorian, Jay and Ronnie began. Will we see different judging at the Olympia and Arnold Classic from now on?
Please, will someone do something about the artificially enhanced breasts in the women's contests. I don't care to look at women with fake boobs no matter how great their figures/physiques are.
I wonder if fans would stop going to contests if they were drug tested? Perhaps the webcasts are the audience of the future and we can all go to contests without being there.
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I think people need to read between the lines with some of the things Bob says. He isn't happy about lot of stuff that goes on but he has to be careful how he handles things.
He "has" to shed a positive light on just about everything to retain any rapport with the top brass of the IFBB to get anything done at all.
The ifbb is run by people who don't change things in a hurry and they don't change things unless they believe the changes are pretty much their ideas to begin with even if they aren't...
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Pro bodybuilding is in such a mess that perhaps it can't be saved. If everyone is juicing then there literally would be no competitors who would pass random drug testing. I think it is rather sad that a huge bodybuilder like Dennis James loses to the little guys. Dennis is simply following the precedent that Dorian, Jay and Ronnie began.
Dennis' problem was conditioning (or lack therof)....
Will we see different judging at the Olympia and Arnold Classic from now on?
Different than what?
Please, will someone do something about the artificially enhanced breasts in the women's contests. I don't care to look at women with fake boobs no matter how great their figures/physiques are.
It would be un-american!! ;D
I wonder if fans would stop going to contests if they were drug tested? Perhaps the webcasts are the audience of the future and we can all go to contests without being there.
They have...they're called "natural shows"....and no one goes.
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Actually, alot of times organizations or even coporations have rule books, guidelines, etc in writing for many reasons.
For one, it helps employees know the rules, whats good, whats bad, the ins & outs.
Although, alot of the times, I found they are establish not within the welfare & benefits of employees, but in the advantage of the corporation. As some old terminology from my Marine Corps days would suggest.....they are developed, designed, & implemented to cover the "six" of said corporation.
A business is in business for themselves...not for the employees. If they were, they would be passing out earnings & stocks.
Don't like it...go into business for yourself.....or...STFU.
;D
Great post and pretty much sums up the world of pro BB. Like them or hate them, the IFBB pro div has done it better for longer than any other group that has tried. I have promoted a few shows and it ain't as easy as it looks let me tell ya. If it was all the naysayers would out there doing it bigger and better...but they are not.
Reality is a lot different than "ideal".
hey I was also a jarhead Plt 3041 PI (bootcamp)
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Was the lighting set up at the Colorado pro to highlight the abdomen area? Usually we have less light on the front on the body and more from overhead. Even guys like Rockel didn't look that cut up in the photos. Darrem had the most defined abs from what I could see. Dennis looked smooth in the contest shots. Yet in images released of him an hour before the contest he was hardly smooth?
I suppose we could argue all day about the condition quality and how important it is at contests. This is something all athletes should be concerned about. For some reason that aspect of one's appearance can now explain why someone didn't win or place high. When I think back about how much work it takes to build large muscles and all the muscles I wonder if definition should carry that much weight in contests?
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Was the lighting set up at the Colorado pro to highlight the abdomen area? Usually we have less light on the front on the body and more from overhead. Even guys like Rockel didn't look that cut up in the photos. Darrem had the most defined abs from what I could see. Dennis looked smooth in the contest shots. Yet in images released of him an hour before the contest he was hardly smooth?
I suppose we could argue all day about the condition quality and how important it is at contests. This is something all athletes should be concerned about. For some reason that aspect of one's appearance can now explain why someone didn't win or place high. When I think back about how much work it takes to build large muscles and all the muscles I wonder if definition should carry that much weight in contests?
I can tell you that the lightin and sound at the Colorado Pro was A-1 , 1st class topnotch.
Mr Basile, as a former Mr Canada you should know better than most that how one looks under the stage lights can be VERY different than under normal or backstage lighting.
The mass monsters like DJ and Branch Warren, etc were off at this contest. The top 5-6 guys were the best of what was on stage THAT day. I would have moved Farah into the top 5, but also know it was very close.
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forget DJ's conditioning for a minute the judges need to tell him the truth...
he has NO lats from the back and a big gut. that is his problem...
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Great post and pretty much sums up the world of pro BB. Like them or hate them, the IFBB pro div has done it better for longer than any other group that has tried. I have promoted a few shows and it ain't as easy as it looks let me tell ya. If it was all the naysayers would out there doing it bigger and better...but they are not.
Reality is a lot different than "ideal".
hey I was also a jarhead Plt 3041 PI (bootcamp)
Plt 1037 PI for me
3rd Bn....you were out in the woods
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forget DJ's conditioning for a minute the judges need to tell him the truth...
he has NO lats from the back and a big gut. that is his problem...
Extremely HIGH lats he does have. From the front, they're non-existent too. His torso is too short and blocky and that takes away from his lats even further.
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You know, if a guy looks great in the gym then that should be sufficient. These contests are not doing justice to the top guys. Dillette was a winner without stepping on stage. Ditto for Dennis James. Heck, I would rather look big like Dennis than look like Kai or Darrem. Contests have evolved into something bizarre. This is especially true for the women. Gals look great in the gym but older, lined, and not so impressive in a line up. We are paying way too much attention to definition.
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You know, if a guy looks great in the gym then that should be sufficient. These contests are not doing justice to the top guys. Dillette was a winner without stepping on stage. Ditto for Dennis James. Heck, I would rather look big like Dennis than look like Kai or Darrem. Contests have evolved into something bizarre. This is especially true for the women. Gals look great in the gym but older, lined, and not so impressive in a line up. We are paying way too much attention to definition.
There are stage bodies and gym bodies vince...
the stage bodies will always prevail over the gym bodies as they should.
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Believe me the gym body remains long after the shine on the trophies fade.
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You know, if a guy looks great in the gym then that should be sufficient.
It is sufficient...for looking good in the gym.
These contests are not doing justice to the top guys. Dillette was a winner without stepping on stage. Ditto for Dennis James. Heck, I would rather look big like Dennis than look like Kai or Darrem. Contests have evolved into something bizarre. This is especially true for the women. Gals look great in the gym but older, lined, and not so impressive in a line up. We are paying way too much attention to definition.
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Believe me the gym body remains long after the shine on the trophies fade.
guys with gym bodies never learn a damn thing about the sport.
they parade around looking huge in a tank all year then cry when they place low because they forgot to train their calves or back or forgot to diet hard enough or learn to put together a decent posing routine.
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I am not buying this argument. Dennis James is a better bodybuilder than those small guys. Some guys just shouldn't compete because they either don't get cut enough of they lose some of their pleasant lines by reducing too much.
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I am not buying this argument. Dennis James is a better bodybuilder than those small guys. Some guys just shouldn't compete because they either don't get cut enough of they lose some of their pleasant lines by reducing too much.
I give it to the little guy by a mile...
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the old man needs to start wearing glasses
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Was the lighting set up at the Colorado pro to highlight the abdomen area? Usually we have less light on the front on the body and more from overhead. Even guys like Rockel didn't look that cut up in the photos. Darrem had the most defined abs from what I could see. Dennis looked smooth in the contest shots. Yet in images released of him an hour before the contest he was hardly smooth?
I suppose we could argue all day about the condition quality and how important it is at contests. This is something all athletes should be concerned about. For some reason that aspect of one's appearance can now explain why someone didn't win or place high. When I think back about how much work it takes to build large muscles and all the muscles I wonder if definition should carry that much weight in contests?
extreme low bodyfat levels and extreme dry conditinoing in my opinion has done a lot of damage to the sport and harmed the health of a lot of these guys. The old timers looked great competing at higher bodyfat levels, healthier, happier looking. who gives a shit if a guy has striations in his glutes. No need to be 3% and dried out to compare muscle quality.
Also the old timers didin't wear all that shit ugly orange paint, that needs to go. Get better lighting designers.
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Please, will someone do something about the artificially enhanced breasts in the women's contests. I don't care to look at women with fake boobs no matter how great their figures/physiques are.
Vince... Women all over the USA get breast enhancements every day. I bet any money if we took a poll of what guys on here thought about fake boobs... YOU would stand alone in the minority!
And as far as seeing the girls competing... You as the "master trainer from way back" should know that after training, cardio and dieting that a female would have very little breast left since its mostly fatty tissue. Look at pics of most female bb's from the early 80's... nothing, nada... posing in bikinis... why... they had no breasts to hide.
So in conclusion... not only do implants make them shapelier and sexier to look at for 99.9% of the world... it actually helps their own self-esteem when they begin losing their femininity through training and dieting.
Why are you so obsessed with implants on competitors anyway? Do you prefer that prepubescent look?
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Bob Chicerillo = Smart man who doesn't bite the hand that feeds him. In fact he's done just the opposite, he's working the system.
Lee Priest = petulant tool who's bitten every hand to the point where he is out of the game.
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I don't care to look at women with fake boobs no matter how great their figures/physiques are.
Well, honestly speaking, I doubt many women really want an old fat guy like yourself looking at them anyway, so I believe it all balances out.
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Well, honestly speaking, I doubt many women really want an old fat guy like yourself looking at them anyway, so I believe it all balances out.
CQ you dont think women love Vince aka Mr. Canada ???
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Aesthetically the women are diminished when at low bodyfat levels the augmentation is visible. That detracts from what nature gave women. I dislike seeing fake things and that goes for synthol and inserts. What the heck has this sport evolved into? It is supposed to be bodybuilding and body enhancement. Beauty is always the end product. Training is supposed to be the way we obtain results. Anything less is a travesty and should not be tolerated or rewarded.
Because the judges and officials separate both men and women by conditioning the result is that competitors have to present with very low fat levels and this takes its toll on adipose tissue that often enhances shape. That is why the inserts have to go with the women. We would not tolerate it with the men because that is the opposite of bodybuilding.
The practical problem here is if you impose a rule forbidding breast implants you might not have many competitors left. Where do you start? Go to Canada where it is legal for women to expose their breasts and have topless contests for all women. We would soon revert back to fat levels that augment bodyshape and beauty.
Bodybuilding for men and women has become phony. Too many chemicals and substances used. It is literally risky to be a pro bodybuilder. This goes against what the IFBB stood for. Maybe it would be a good thing to get rid of Manion and the whole damn pro division. In one swoop things would improve for the better. Rigid drug testing complete with random tests during the off season.
Many here say they would lose interest if the drugs were taken out of the sport. That is interesting because I am sure the public is just the opposite. We seldom have had great brains involved in the sport and is it any wonder we are in the mess that we are in now? Things won't improve because they can't with the current organization and people running it.
Because condition is so important in women's contests the organizers gave way to requests that the gals with diminished boobs wanted to make them big again by going to their plastic surgeon. The solution is to change the judging standards and forbid unnatural methods to enhance the body. Doesn't the IFBB get this? I guess not. Most of the women look bizarre in bodybuilding and the fitness competitors aren't that far behind. With low bodyfat levels those inserts stand out like disks. That is not beautiful no matter how bad those gals want to look that way. Anyone who prefers this look is either delusional or bizarre.
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vince, your mind is closed. you use questions as bridges for your own orality.
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CQ you dont think women love Vince aka Mr. Canada ???
I am sure that some senior citizen ladies might check him out...he is not so bad looking for an old guy. But he was referring to fitness/figure girls, and I highly doubt that a pack of twenty-something women want some old geezer like Basile looking at them.
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I am sure that some senior citizen ladies might check him out...he is not so bad looking for an old guy. But he was referring to fitness/figure girls, and I highly doubt that a pack of twenty-something women want some old geezer like Basile looking at them.
yeah highly doubt is a good word. vince probably smells like cheese that has been stored in a pussy that has been out clubbing 4 days in a row without showering. ("disco pussy")
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Bob Chicerillo = Smart man who doesn't bite the hand that feeds him. In fact he's done just the opposite, he's working the system.
Lee Priest = petulant tool who's bitten every hand to the point where he is out of the game.
LAST TIME I CHECKED I FEED MYSELF..........
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Bob Chicerillo = Smart man who doesn't bite the hand that feeds him. He sticks it softly up his ass so they can tell him what to do.
Lee Priest = petulant tool who's bitten every hand to the point where he is out of the game. Cause he has integrity and balls. Yet is still one of the most popular BB's in the world
I fixed it.
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I fixed it.
good post keith....
"Cause he has integrity and balls. Yet is still one of the most popular BB's in the world"
i dont however quite agree with what you said about bob.....
i see bob doing a lot for the sport...putting a lot of time in....
dan and bob are helping the sport in a big way....dan is a very professional presenter and knows what hes talking about
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good post keith....
"Cause he has integrity and balls. Yet is still one of the most popular BB's in the world"
i dont however quite agree with what you said about bob.....
i see bob doing a lot for the sport...putting a lot of time in....
dan and bob are helping the sport in a big way....dan is a very professional presenter and knows what hes talking about
Don't let Keith bother you...he likes to think everything is a conspiracy, and that Manion actually gives a shit about what someone like him thinks....
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I fixed it.
How does Lee have integrity for talking shit about his former sponsors? It comes across as unprofessional and insecure and for the life of me, I have no clue why anyone would sign him if that's how he behaves.
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How does Lee have integrity for talking shit about his former sponsors? It comes across as unprofessional and insecure and for the life of me, I have no clue why anyone would sign him if that's how he behaves.
Onlyme has a strange way of thinking :-\
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Don't let Keith bother you...he likes to think everything is a conspiracy, and that Manion actually gives a shit about what someone like him thinks....
Bob, tell me I am not on Manion's mind. I can't wait to hear this one.
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How does Lee have integrity for talking shit about his former sponsors? It comes across as unprofessional and insecure and for the life of me, I have no clue why anyone would sign him if that's how he behaves.
I DONT TALK SHIT I TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT...............THEM
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How does Lee have integrity for talking shit about his former sponsors?
Because any malcontent with a middle finger is a hero to the world's "victims."
Lee is, in essence, a shorter, whiter, chemically enhanced and tattooed Rosa Parks in a Batman costume. A
voice for the voiceless.