Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: disco_stu on June 12, 2007, 02:07:29 PM
-
gotta love this... 9. The Committee finds that you did falsely accuse, in a public forum, Mr. Paul Chua and Mr. Walter van den Branden of wrongdoing; specifically, of fixing the results and/or of receiving money to manipulate the results of the Bodybuilding competition at the Doha Asian Games.
falsely accuse?...what is that?...
who the heck writes these documents for the IFBB?...i find it hard to believe that it is anyone with any legal nouse at all because they just dont have a clue when it comes to their findings.
all they have is heresay and accusations and non-independent witnesses. Hard to make a fair judgement based on that- let alone finding what amounts to guilt.
i agree that Milos- according to the statement- had his opportunities to make good and didnt help himself, however silence has NEVER been used as an acceptance of guilt, nor responsibility so legally- the IFBB has no right to impose any sentence at all as it simply isnt founded.
In fact he denies one of the allegations.
Whats more is that the burden of proof- as stated in the letter- has been placed on Milos himself!!!!!!!!!. Imagine that...getting charged for murder and then fronting up to court and the judge advises you that you have to prove them that you are innocent!!!
It's a bloody kangaroo court no doubt. Legaly I am CERTAIN that Milos- regardless of the facts and truth- has recourse for appeal and also basis for claims of damages against the IFBB as a result.
Of course it is probaby weighted by those costs as to whether anything is worth fighting for....plus theres that risk of ''messing with the wrong people''....
based on the letter itself though- there isnt a shred of evidence that would warrant a ban of any sort.
It is clear that the IFBB cannot be impartial and has based the allegation's merit on the weight of the accusers- rather than fact. There are no grounds for the IFBB to act upon- only an opportunity to act should it be proven otherwise that these accusations were in fact, false...or even more specifically- fabricated by Milos...this means literally that even if they are false, if he was lead to believe that they were true, then he is not liable.
All other actions can only take place via civil prosecution. Based on thos findings- then the IFBB can act legally. Until then they, the IFBB are waaaay out of line in this attempt at policing the rules.
another all so familiar lame story from the so called professional BB organisation.
-
gotta love this... 9. The Committee finds that you did falsely accuse, in a public forum, Mr. Paul Chua and Mr. Walter van den Branden of wrongdoing; specifically, of fixing the results and/or of receiving money to manipulate the results of the Bodybuilding competition at the Doha Asian Games.
falsely accuse?...what is that?...
who the heck writes these documents for the IFBB?...i find it hard to believe that it is anyone with any legal nouse at all because they just dont have a clue when it comes to their findings.
all they have is heresay and accusations and non-independent witnesses. Hard to make a fair judgement based on that- let alone finding what amounts to guilt.
What they found Milos "guilty" of, was not presenting evidence to back up his accusations.
i agree that Milos- according to the statement- had his opportunities to make good and didnt help himself, however silence has NEVER been used as an acceptance of guilt, nor responsibility so legally- the IFBB has no right to impose any sentence at all as it simply isnt founded.
You're wrong...the onus to back up a claim made is clearly on the shoulders of the one making the accusation.
In fact he denies one of the allegations.
Whats more is that the burden of proof- as stated in the letter- has been placed on Milos himself!!!!!!!!!. Imagine that...getting charged for murder and then fronting up to court and the judge advises you that you have to prove them that you are innocent!!!
Once again...of course the burden of proof is on Milos, he's the one making the charge...
You're completely backwards in your rational...the burden of proof in your senario rests on them finding YOU guilty, they dont have to proove your innocence. You're already PRESUMED innocent in the court of law.
It's a bloody kangaroo court no doubt. Legaly I am CERTAIN that Milos- regardless of the facts and truth- has recourse for appeal and also basis for claims of damages against the IFBB as a result.
Of course he has recourse for appeal...I submitted it on his behalf and on different merits.
Of course it is probaby weighted by those costs as to whether anything is worth fighting for....plus theres that risk of ''messing with the wrong people''....
based on the letter itself though- there isnt a shred of evidence that would warrant a ban of any sort.
Evidence of WHAT? They werent challenging Milos...MIlos was challenging THEM.
It is clear that the IFBB cannot be impartial and has based the allegation's merit on the weight of the accusers- rather than fact. There are no grounds for the IFBB to act upon- only an opportunity to act should it be proven otherwise that these accusations were in fact, false...or even more specifically- fabricated by Milos...this means literally that even if they are false, if he was lead to believe that they were true, then he is not liable.
Of course he's liable...for his own actions and allegations.
All other actions can only take place via civil prosecution. Based on thos findings- then the IFBB can act legally. Until then they, the IFBB are waaaay out of line in this attempt at policing the rules.
another all so familiar lame story from the so called professional BB organisation.
You sound either young and inexperienced, or not too well read when it comes to the law and how it works.....
-
Bob, since these rumors are not new, don't you think the IFBB would want to put into place some safeguards to make sure such fixing could not happen? Outside observers to make sure judges were marking score sheets, and that the score sheets were added up to determine the winners?
-
I have no issue with that...as many know by now...I've never been a fan of the current system, and have already made proposals to change it, and update it....
-
I have EVERY INTENTION to prove what I claim and...I WILL... ;)
-
......
-
FUCK BOB CHICKENSHIT UP MILOS
-
I got a question. If Milos does prove his accusations and since money was involved isn't this a criminal issue? Bribery and othe issues that the law would then investigate? Anyone? ???
-
Anti-corruption agency of Singapore already had some info about Mr. Chua and soon enough will get the rest of it... ;)
-
Anti-corruption agency of Singapore already had some info about Mr. Chua and soon enough will get the rest of it... ;)
Ouch. That is one nasty place for stuff like this. They are especially noted for crippling slander/libel cases to bring people in line or remove them from the picture. :-X
-
Ouch. That is one nasty place for stuff like this. They are especially noted for crippling slander/libel cases to bring people in line or remove them from the picture. :-X
Really? ;D
Well, maybe Mr. Chua has nothing to worry about it...
After all my accusations are supposedly false?
Or are they? ;)
-
When was the last time the law was brought into bodybuilding......oh yeah, when Jay got disqualified for diuretic use!! ;D
And what happened when Jay got a lawyer ??? The IFBB dropped his DQ faster than you can say "dirty testing!" ::)
-
When was the last time the law was brought into bodybuilding......oh yeah, when Jay got disqualified for diuretic use!! ;D
And what happened when Jay got a lawyer ??? The IFBB dropped his DQ faster than you can say "dirty testing!" ::)
Are you talking to me? ;)
-
Bob Cicherillo, on Milos' behalf, appealed the suspension from the IFBB. Milos isnt banned from an event, but he cannot go backstage, nor go to an athlete's meeting.
Even if Milos and Bob have discussions and debates, they always shake hands afterwards, and now, Bob will represent Milos. Hopefully, one day Milos can work with Bob on an athlete's committee regarding various issues that can be presented at the next IFBB meeting before the Olympia.
-
Bob, since these rumors are not new, don't you think the IFBB would want to put into place some safeguards to make sure such fixing could not happen? Outside observers to make sure judges were marking score sheets, and that the score sheets were added up to determine the winners?
But if certain outcomes are alleged to have been pre-determined, then how would outside observers or scoresheet monitoring solve anything at all?
What you need is a watchdog group to keep a record of all judging decisions which seem questionable - FOR WHATEVER REASON - and to track them over time. Photos, video clips, and eyewitness accounts would all become part of the record. Thanks to the internet, this can be achieved nowadays, so it's entirely possible for the concerned fans to put more pressure on the organization to make sure its judges are performing their duties ethically at ALL times and at ALL events, not just at some or most.
I've been to several shows where the IFBB judges worked their tails off and although they may have missed a placing or few, the process had an air of legitimacy. Conversely, I've been to other shows where the top placings seemed to be very questionable.
-
Bob Cicherillo, on Milos' behalf, appealed the suspension from the IFBB. Milos isnt banned from an event, but he cannot go backstage, nor go to an athlete's meeting.
Even if Milos and Bob have discussions and debates, they always shake hands afterwards, and now, Bob will represent Milos. Hopefully, one day Milos can work with Bob on an athlete's committee regarding various issues that can be presented at the next IFBB meeting before the Olympia.
I am officially working with Bob...
-
Anti-corruption agency of Singapore already had some info about Mr. Chua and soon enough will get the rest of it... ;)
Milos, i don't pretend to understand how the ifbb do business (who does?), but i'm thinking you're not really helping your appeal much. :-\
here's a thought: stfu about chua until you've got something. ;) :-X
-
I am officially working with Bob...
will bob get free amps of humulin from you in return?
;D
-
will bob get free amps of humulin from you in return?
;D
you do realise that humulin is cheap, don't you ???
-
Bob Cicherillo, on Milos' behalf, appealed the suspension from the IFBB. Milos isnt banned from an event, but he cannot go backstage, nor go to an athlete's meeting.
Even if Milos and Bob have discussions and debates, they always shake hands afterwards, and now, Bob will represent Milos. Hopefully, one day Milos can work with Bob on an athlete's committee regarding various issues that can be presented at the next IFBB meeting before the Olympia.
Ok...someone explain it to me....
I can see that he's not allowed to compete while being on suspension....
but why not be able to attend an athlete's meeting or even better...."going backstage"?
What's in the harm being allowed backstage?
Come & Check out Getbig's Pet Board
News, Nutrition/Healthcare, & Gossip
A place to talk about pets & animals
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=59.0
-
Ok...someone explain it to me....
I can see that he's not allowed to compete while being on suspension....
but why not be able to attend an athlete's meeting or even better...."going backstage"?
What's in the harm being allowed backstage?
Come & Check out Getbig's Pet Board
News, Nutrition/Healthcare, & Gossip
A place to talk about pets & animals
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=59.0
WHAT'S THE HARM BEING ALLOWED BACKSAGE ???
ARE YOU SERIOUS???!!!
WHAT IF HE TAKES PICS OF THE BBERS AND POSTS THEM ON A WEBSITE??? THEN WHAT?
god i hate stupid questions. ::)
-
Bob once again your cerebral genetics are less than on par to those of your physique.
i wont even bother counter pointing your attempt at taking contextual pieces from my post.
anyone with half a brain will read your comments and think ''wow this dude is a fool...''
ive never ever heard of the law making an accusation and not having to provide proof beyond heresay.
if that happens- its only in afghanistan.
-
Still waiting for my answer.
What's the harm of Milo's going back stage at a contest?
Come & Check out Getbig's Pet Board
News, Nutrition/Healthcare, & Gossip
A place to talk about pets & animals
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=59.0
-
Bob once again your cerebral genetics are less than on par to those of your physique.
i wont even bother counter pointing your attempt at taking contextual pieces from my post.
anyone with half a brain will read your comments and think ''wow this dude is a fool...''
ive never ever heard of the law making an accusation and not having to provide proof beyond heresay.
if that happens- its only in afghanistan.
You cant counter anything...so dont bother, you'll make your self look eben more foolish...
The "law" isn't making an accusation...an INDIVIDUAL is...and the bearing of proof rests with him, not the other way around.
Give it up....
-
I have no issue with that...as many know by now...I've never been a fan of the current system, and have already made proposals to change it, and update it....
Chick, be honest......BB in it's current form sucks.
Most pro athletes are in peak condition when they compete. BBer's are close to death when they compete. A TOTAL joke.
Your "sport" has imploded on itself in the last 15yrs.
-
Still waiting for my answer.
What's the harm of Milo's going back stage at a contest?
Come & Check out Getbig's Pet Board
News, Nutrition/Healthcare, & Gossip
A place to talk about pets & animals
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=59.0
There is no "harm"...it's a privilege that comes with being in good standing with the IFBB. When one is suspended, the privileges go bye bye...
-
Chick, be honest......BB in it's current form sucks.
Most pro athletes are in peak condition when they compete. BBer's are close to death when they compete. A TOTAL joke.
Your "sport" has imploded on itself in the last 15yrs.
Much like Billy Joel my friend....I didn't start the fire.
-
Much like Billy Joel my friend....I didn't start the fire.
Ouch. *Warning. My analogy is in poor taste. Sorry* Isn't that what most Germans said after the war? C'mon, we all know complacency is the moral refuge of the weak-willed, why are you coughing up the above hairball?
/not hatin'. just sad.
-
Ouch. *Warning. My analogy is in poor taste. Sorry* Isn't that what most Germans said after the war? C'mon, we all know complacency is the moral refuge of the weak-willed, why are you coughing up the above hairball?
/not hatin'. just sad.
It's no in poor taste...it's just a bad analogy, period!
Point is, he's asking ME about where the sport has gone from the past....My point is...I'm not responsible for what those before me did, or didn't do...I can only try and make change NOW, while it's MY time to do so.
-
It's no in poor taste...it's just a bad analogy, period!
Point is, he's asking ME about where the sport has gone from the past....My point is...I'm not responsible for what those before me did, or didn't do...I can only try and make change NOW, while it's MY time to do so.
Fair enough. However, I think it is your lack of in enacting any real change, despite your protestations to the contrary, that frustrates everybody here at Gb. And, in that light, your 'moral outrage' against my analogy rings patently false.
Show us some real, positive change, and you will have no better supporters than us. Continue with the same ambivalent wordsmithing and you will continue to be seen as nothing more than a shop steward.
-
There is no "harm"...it's a privilege that comes with being in good standing with the IFBB. When one is suspended, the privileges go bye bye...
Thanks for answering
I just thought they didn't want him to communicate to the athlete's or something.
I do find it odd....as a privilege...they feel the need to take it away. The suspension should only go as far to not be able to compete (just my opinion).
I'm not Milo's fan by any means.....I would look at this as strange if it was anyone being suspended.
It's like the IFBB would suspend a noted drug dealer from going back stage so it wouldn't draw attention to backstage activities.
On this case...I couldn't see how it applied.
Come & Check out Getbig's Pet Board
News, Nutrition/Healthcare, & Gossip
A place to talk about pets & animals
-
I can only try and make change NOW, while it's MY time to do so.
If your serious, I applaud you.
-
Much like Billy Joel my friend....I didn't start the fire.
No but you are feeding it to keep it going.
-
No but you are feeding it to keep it going.
Ah! there you are!
-
Keith made a funny
:D
Come & Check out Getbig's Pet Board
News, Nutrition/Healthcare, & Gossip
A place to talk about pets & animals
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=59.0
-
will bob get free amps of humulin from you in return?
;D
Humulin is about 7-8 years outdated....and no, Bob will get my support and nothing else...
-
Still waiting for my answer.
What's the harm of Milo's going back stage at a contest?
Come & Check out Getbig's Pet Board
News, Nutrition/Healthcare, & Gossip
A place to talk about pets & animals
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=59.0
Backstage is place for IFBB athletes and officials....I think that's their point...
-
I just want to ask - did anyone wonder why EVERY IFBB official doesn't doubt that I am telling the truth - but nevertheless they will suspend me with "FALSE ACCUSATION"?
To be fair - Jim Manion did agree with me that NOT ONLY I have to show proofs...but also Paul Chua...but for some reason he never got the answer from Mr. Rafael Santonja and next thing you know - I am suspended...?
-
politics always win in the end >:(
-
I just want to ask - did anyone wonder why EVERY IFBB official doesn't doubt that I am telling the truth - but nevertheless they will suspend me with "FALSE ACCUSATION"?
To be fair - Jim Manion did agree with me that NOT ONLY I have to show proofs...but also Paul Chua...but for some reason he never got the answer from Mr. Rafael Santonja and next thing you know - I am suspended...?
if manion and the other ifbb officials 'told' you that then i would suggest it's not worth the paper it wasn't written on. ;)
it's very simple Milos,
you make the accusations
you provide the proof
law 101
-
it's very simple Milos,
you make the accusations
you provide the proof
Exactly. Not to worry, Milos has proof "and then some!" At least that's what he says.
-
I just want to ask - did anyone wonder why EVERY IFBB official doesn't doubt that I am telling the truth - but nevertheless they will suspend me with "FALSE ACCUSATION"?
To be fair - Jim Manion did agree with me that NOT ONLY I have to show proofs...but also Paul Chua...but for some reason he never got the answer from Mr. Rafael Santonja and next thing you know - I am suspended...?
The big issue is if you have actual proof or at least other credible wintness to the bribe incident in question?
-
Not sure if Milos has proof or not but what motive does he have to lie. He was told he would get suspended and he has been a long time IFBB pro and has competed in more shows than anyone else. It is pretty easy to see he loves the IFBB and BB. WHY WOULD HE LIE? What proof does she need other than his word. Milos is one of the most respected pros out there. We're not talking Sean Ray saying this stuff. His credibility is nothing compared to Milos. From what I have Chua is not the most up and up guy. Also, the IFBB judging does not have the best reputation either. Face it, Milos caught them cheating and to cover their ass they suspend him. The long time rule of "not to cross the IFBB or pay the circumstances" is being upheld here. Plus, is there a rule in the IFBB rulebook stating the judges can't cheat. Just wondering. Cause if it isn't in the book then you can bet the IFBB doesn't think it's bad. And if there is rules then it just fits how the IFBB works anyway. They don't follow their own rule book
i see what you're saying here onlyme and i agree with a lot of it, but the fact is, when you make serious accusations against someone in a public arena you better have proof or you leave yourself wide open.
when you do it whilst representing a corporate body as large as the ifbb and against one of it's highest official promoters, then you're basically asking for it.
any corporation would do exactly the same thing. if they didn't act, what sort of message would that send? it would be a huge slap in the face to the man accused and they'd be providing cate blanch to any manager/trainer/athlete, etc to say or do anything they like whenever they like. can you say 'extremely unprofessional'? the prescedent would have been set and who's to say that joe bloggs who got ripped off a trophy doesn't have the right to his roid rage temper tantrum at the judges. >:(
look, Milos is a very passionate bloke and i'm proud of him for standing up for his man. it certainly does look like something fishy was going on with that contest, but there's a time and place for everthing and there's a code of conduct. Milos thought he was bigger than that and, quite frankly, he's lucky (so far) that he hasn't had a defamation suit slapped on him. i get the feeling that if he was in usa and he accused a promoter publically of being corrupt without evidence he probably would.
-
Rafael Santonja is a crook. He learned his ways from the same book as his mentor did, Ben Weider. Hope this helps.
-
to accept a witnessed bribe or via a wire is a serious charge and you better have unimpeachable sources or else you look worse than a fool and be prepared for stern consequences of your false unsubstantiated allegations. anybody can make a claim but you better be damn well able to prove it.
-
Backstage is place for IFBB athletes and officials....I think that's their point...
That makes more sense
Come & Check out Getbig's Pet Board
News, Nutrition/Healthcare, & Gossip
A place to talk about pets & animals
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=59.0
-
if manion and the other ifbb officials 'told' you that then i would suggest it's not worth the paper it wasn't written on. ;)
it's very simple Milos,
you make the accusations
you provide the proof
law 101
law 101 my butt.
there's nothing in the law that says you cant accuse someone of something. Theres nothing in the law that says that that person cant deny it.
but the law does state that if a policing body intends to punish you- the onus of that proof is on them in order to uphold the charge.
unless freedom of speech isnt allowed- then its another story.
does freedom of speech apply in the US?
-
....anybody can make a claim but you better be damn well able to prove it.
again...BS... only a civil action can counter a claim that cant be proven and that has to be shown to have caused actual damages for which the accused may be held liable.
milos definitely has grounds to sue the IFBB for this...no doubt at all.
but then again Milos' accused do have grounds to sue Milos...but i bet you they wont place legal action on him for damages....unless they are actually squeeky clean.
-
what is he being accused of actually?
-
again...BS... only a civil action can counter a claim that cant be proven and that has to be shown to have caused actual damages for which the accused may be held liable.
milos definitely has grounds to sue the IFBB for this...no doubt at all.
but then again Milos' accused do have grounds to sue Milos...but i bet you they wont place legal action on him for damages....unless they are actually squeeky clean.
I bet a lot of folks want this to just go away???
-
law 101 my butt.
there's nothing in the law that says you cant accuse someone of something. Theres nothing in the law that says that that person cant deny it.
but the law does state that if a policing body intends to punish you- the onus of that proof is on them in order to uphold the charge.
unless freedom of speech isnt allowed- then its another story.
does freedom of speech apply in the US?
in a court of law those that make the accusation are either called the plaintiff (civil court) or the prosecutor (criminal court). each has to have a basis for their complaint.
yes, you can accuse someone of something w/o evidence, but this was done in a very public arena, the charges were very serious and they were against an individual who earns his living based partially, at least, on how he is perceived by the general public ie the public are not likely to pay money to see a contest that has been fixed from the start. this is where the defamation comes in.
this most definitely IS law 101. in fact it is the most crucial element to prove in law ie an accusation supported by evidence.
-
Exactly. Not to worry, Milos has proof "and then some!" At least that's what he says.
And than some...
I am putting everything together (I had 10 hours flight to Japan which I used exclusively for "my case"...)
I hope to have everything ready by the time I come back (in two weeks...)
-
And than some...
I am putting everything together (I had 10 hours flight to Japan which I used exclusively for "my case"...)
I hope to have everything ready by the time I come back (in two weeks...)
i, personally, would be absolutely delighted if you do have evidence Milos. in fact, with so much said and done, i strongly recommend that you gather the best evidence you possibly can.
fixing contests, after all the sacrifice and dedication these guys go through, stinks and there is the fraud against the fans to consider aswell.
-
And than some...
I am putting everything together (I had 10 hours flight to Japan which I used exclusively for "my case"...)
I hope to have everything ready by the time I come back (in two weeks...)
I pretty much trust everything you say Milos, but if you have the proof, how come you didn't use any of this evidence in the IFBB "trial?"
-
in a court of law those that make the accusation are either called the plaintiff (civil court) or the prosecutor (criminal court). each has to have a basis for their complaint.
yes, you can accuse someone of something w/o evidence, but this was done in a very public arena, the charges were very serious and they were against an individual who earns his living based partially, at least, on how he is perceived by the general public ie the public are not likely to pay money to see a contest that has been fixed from the start. this is where the defamation comes in.
this most definitely IS law 101. in fact it is the most crucial element to prove in law ie an accusation supported by evidence.
i dont disagree at all with this...in fact this is exactly my point. he cannot be found guilty of making an accusation. If anything at all, its a matter for the civil courts and between those two only.
if in fact the accusations are false, milos will get sorted by that process and will be liable for damages and then some.
if they can prove they are unfounded or no definite decision can be made to prove or refute the accusation then theres a case for damages as a result.
until the findings of such a process are determined, the IFBB cannot do anything as they have nothing and no legal process.
this is my beef with the IFBB in this case. They should- i assume- have every right to cancel any contractual dealings with milos if he has infact breached very specific conditions of his contract.
On top of this, their publication of the letter leaves them AS OPEN for litigation as anyone involved- why they didnt suppress it is beyond belief.
Should any legal proceedings take place, and the outcome in fact is either no charge or the accusations are proven- then the IFBB should book its seat in the courtroom as they will be called next to be charged for damages to Milos as a result of publishing the letter and also of making unlawful findings and ''false accusations''.
-
Love how, as usual, this plays out on a public message board. ::)
-
I pretty much trust everything you say Milos, but if you have the proof, how come you didn't use any of this evidence in the IFBB "trial?"
There are simple proofs and complicated ones...if you know what I mean...
Something that is very easy to prove and some that you is NOT SO EASY...as "everybody knows but nobody wants to say"...
How come I didn't use any evidence?
I was told that FULL INVESTIGATION is issued in this matter...but what I realized later - I was the only one being investigated...
That is why I didn't give them anything as of yet...
I will have so much to present (and it will be posted here on board ;)) - it will take HOURS to read everything...
-
I miss Milos :'(
Maybe the PDI will pick him up ;D
-
There are simple proofs and complicated ones...if you know what I mean...
Something that is very easy to prove and some that you is NOT SO EASY...as "everybody knows but nobody wants to say"...
How come I didn't use any evidence?
I was told that FULL INVESTIGATION is issued in this matter...but what I realized later - I was the only one being investigated...
That is why I didn't give them anything as of yet...
I will have so much to present (and it will be posted here on board ;)) - it will take HOURS to read everything...
Kewl.
And while we wait...how's Japan?
Also, say "hi" to Hide...!
-
I was told that FULL INVESTIGATION is issued in this matter...but what I realized later - I was the only one being investigated...
go figure
what's with that bs?
-
go figure
what's with that bs?
The IFBB sucks big fat donkey balls.
-
The IFBB sucks big fat donkey balls.
-
i dont disagree at all with this...in fact this is exactly my point. he cannot be found guilty of making an accusation. If anything at all, its a matter for the civil courts and between those two only.
if in fact the accusations are false, milos will get sorted by that process and will be liable for damages and then some.
if they can prove they are unfounded or no definite decision can be made to prove or refute the accusation then theres a case for damages as a result.
until the findings of such a process are determined, the IFBB cannot do anything as they have nothing and no legal process.
this is my beef with the IFBB in this case. They should- i assume- have every right to cancel any contractual dealings with milos if he has infact breached very specific conditions of his contract.
On top of this, their publication of the letter leaves them AS OPEN for litigation as anyone involved- why they didnt suppress it is beyond belief.
Should any legal proceedings take place, and the outcome in fact is either no charge or the accusations are proven- then the IFBB should book its seat in the courtroom as they will be called next to be charged for damages to Milos as a result of publishing the letter and also of making unlawful findings and ''false accusations''.
damn, that would be so very awesome if it played out like that :). please let that be true :D...it's too good to be true isn't it? :(
-
After Milos wins this case and he will, he can then go after them with a lawsuit. His name has defintiely been damaged during this period and money and reputation has suffered too. I still find it interesting that the IFBB investigates Milos but not the people he has alleged. Just another example of how, if you go against the IFBB you suffer no matter if you are right or not.
-
After Milos wins this case and he will, he can then go after them with a lawsuit. His name has defintiely been damaged during this period and money and reputation has suffered too. I still find it interesting that the IFBB investigates Milos but not the people he has alleged. Just another example of how, if you go against the IFBB you suffer no matter if you are right or not.
true, Milos has copped an absolute caning from the ifbb.
to think, if the ifbb had a hof, Milos would probably be in it (consistantly placing in many many ifbb shows and an exemplary role model) and this is how they treat him. :-[
kinda stinks imho.
-
After Milos wins this case and he will, he can then go after them with a lawsuit. His name has defintiely been damaged during this period and money and reputation has suffered too. I still find it interesting that the IFBB investigates Milos but not the people he has alleged. Just another example of how, if you go against the IFBB you suffer no matter if you are right or not.
Amazing the ignorance and bantering of the "Law" word. After reading what limited evidence surrounding this entire matter exists at this time it is impossible to make any assumptions.
What is prevalent is the precedence established supposedly by the IFBB in suspending a member. Point in fact, a member brings alledged wrong doing to light, the governing body is mandated to "investigate" such allegations in a fair and impartial manner.
A prudent group of professionals would expect the member alledging wrong doing to be summoned to the governing body in an effort to began due diligence in a fair and impartial manner.
Federal case Law has established "suspension" as a disciplinary action. Thus the problem exists. In this particular matter the member has not been given his due process, regardless the forum of the members free speech, case law again takes a precedence in establishing this given matter.
Alarming is the cloak of urgency in which the IFBB moves whenever "any" member questions it's core and or organisation, even in the simplest sense.
Reference the NFL players rep shall we, never will nor do we see such case pertinent information coming from a rep, the Rep simply assures the fair and established process is followed. Chick has been placed into an advocate role from the IFBB in which his actions clearly cross lines of other organized professional sports organizations as it pertains to acceptable Rep behavior.
Simply put, the rep has NO business commenting on such actions during a pending investigation, when this occurs we then see the "fangs" of hell come from others as they feel the Rep is NOT being fair and impartial.
The IFBB must establish communication avenues for all it's members THAT the members will come to accept as truly fair. Until then we will continue to see such outburst's.
Beks
-
Milos,
I really feel that you should not rejoin the IFBB even if they say you can. I can't say if they did you wrong or not but just the fact they suspended a member that has supported the IFBB for as long as you have is ashame. Honestly, I think you should go with Lee and go to PDI and make it even better. If you go to the PDI then so will the other high caliber competitors. The IFBB thinks they are punishing you by suspending you. I see it differently, They are hurting themselves mainly because its giving them a bigger black eye than what they already have. Most fans don't like the IFBB or the officials they employ. Your name will get bigger in the bodybuilding community because of this. Reap the benefits from their misfortune. Make it work for you!!!!
Chick you should do the same. You seem to be an intelligent person, move on before the axe drops on the IFBB...
-
Amazing the ignorance and bantering of the "Law" word. After reading what limited evidence surrounding this entire matter exists at this time it is impossible to make any assumptions.
What is prevalent is the precedence established supposedly by the IFBB in suspending a member. Point in fact, a member brings alledged wrong doing to light, the governing body is mandated to "investigate" such allegations in a fair and impartial manner.
No they're not...they are only mandated to investigate IF proof and fact are presented and warranting such action.
A prudent group of professionals would expect the member alledging wrong doing to be summoned to the governing body in an effort to began due diligence in a fair and impartial manner.
Federal case Law has established "suspension" as a disciplinary action. Thus the problem exists. In this particular matter the member has not been given his due process, regardless the forum of the members free speech, case law again takes a precedence in establishing this given matter.
Actually...you're wrong. Due dilligence was given as he was given 2 chances to provide proof of allegations BEFORE being suspended.
Alarming is the cloak of urgency in which the IFBB moves whenever "any" member questions it's core and or organisation, even in the simplest sense.
Reference the NFL players rep shall we, never will nor do we see such case pertinent information coming from a rep, the Rep simply assures the fair and established process is followed. Chick has been placed into an advocate role from the IFBB in which his actions clearly cross lines of other organized professional sports organizations as it pertains to acceptable Rep behavior.
Simply put, the rep has NO business commenting on such actions during a pending investigation, when this occurs we then see the "fangs" of hell come from others as they feel the Rep is NOT being fair and impartial.
Please...reference such facts that I presented. Show me one fact of the case that I discussed. People see what they want to see, based on bullshit they read on the boards....If they knew the facts, they may have a different outlook.
The IFBB must establish communication avenues for all it's members THAT the members will come to accept as truly fair. Until then we will continue to see such outburst's.
Beks
-
Bob. Make sure Lee preist doesnt get screwed out of placing and qualifying for the Olympia. At 12:01 am on the sept 15th he can do the atlantic pro.
I havent asked for a favor since i built my deck a few weeks ago, so ill owe ya a free "Bobs bowl" at the firehouse, okay??
See you at the USA's and will get you a signed pic in return... 8)
-
Bob. Make sure Lee preist doesnt get screwed out of placing and qualifying for the Olympia. At 12:01 am on the sept 15th he can do the atlantic pro.
I havent asked for a favor since i built my deck a few weeks ago, so ill owe ya a free "Bobs bowl" at the firehouse, okay??
See you at the USA's and will get you a signed pic in return... 8)
Lee's not going to get "screwed" out of anything....
To correct you...at 12:01/ Sept. 15th, his suspension ends....that doesn't necessarily mean he can do the ACPro.
I'm doing all I can for Lee in reguards to exploring his options...
-
a Bob bowl is flank steak and white rice, right Bob?
-
Lee's not going to get "screwed" out of anything....
To correct you...at 12:01/ Sept. 15th, his suspension ends....that doesn't necessarily mean he can do the ACPro.
I'm doing all I can for Lee in reguards to exploring his options...
Well, thats debatable. 12:01 am is a free day for Lee, so why couldnt he compete??
I do believe, you will do all you can, to help him tho.
Yes squadfather, 1 lb of steak and 2 cups of rice....good stuff.
-
Well, thats debatable. 12:01 am is a free day for Lee, so why couldnt he compete??
I do believe, you will do all you can, to help him tho.
Yes squadfather, 1 lb of steak and 2 cups of rice....good stuff.
Just because the suspension ends, doesn't automatically reinstate you in the IFBB...
-
Just because the suspension ends, doesn't automatically reinstate you in the IFBB...
??? explain that one, if he's no longer suspended, how is he not re-instated?
-
Just because the suspension ends, doesn't automatically reinstate you in the IFBB...
the rules are very similar to beauty pageants
-
??? explain that one, if he's no longer suspended, how is he not re-instated?
Easy..he's not a member of the IFBB.
The only way it would work that you are automatically "back in"...is if your suspension was within the duration of your membership...
-
Easy..he's not a member of the IFBB.
The only way it would work that you are automatically "back in"...is if your suspension was within the duration of your membership...
so you're saying his IFBB membership has expired and he couldn't/wouldn't re=new while he was suspended? That makes sense. So I guess the question is how quickly could he get his membership renewed to compete?
-
so you're saying his IFBB membership has expired and he couldn't/wouldn't re=new while he was suspended? That makes sense. So I guess the question is how quickly could he get his membership renewed to compete?
Thats what I'm working on....
-
Easy..he's not a member of the IFBB.
The only way it would work that you are automatically "back in"...is if your suspension was within the duration of your membership...
That's total bullshit. If a suspension is for a specified period of time, when it's up, it should be up period.
The way the IFBB does things would be like a judge sentencing someone to a year in jail, then at the end of one year once his sentence has been served the jailer may let him out or may not depending on his mood. ::)
-
That's total bullshit. If a suspension is for a specified period of time, when it's up, it should be up period.
The way the IFBB does things would be like a judge sentencing someone to a year in jail, then at the end of one year once his sentence has been served the jailer may let him out or may not depending on his mood. ::)
...and it is up...on the 15th.
He's not an active member of the IFBB, and will have to apply for a card/ reinstatement.
Using your own analogy...i would be like someone in jail being released after a year, and automatically returning to their old job...
-
...and it is up...on the 15th.
He's not an active member of the IFBB, and will have to apply for a card/ reinstatement.
Oh, I understand the procedural BS the IFBB is using to justify this... I understood it the first time you explained it. That still doesn't make it right. It just means they've rigged the system so they have all the advantage and they've always got the athletes on a string.
Using your own analogy...i would be like someone in jail being released after a year, and automatically returning to their old job...
No, it would be more like the court issuing an order preventing the person from working after serving his sentence and being released. The IFBB is the court in this analogy, the AC Pro promoter is the employer who wants to hire Lee but the IFBB prevents it.
-
bad analogy once again my friend. some jobs may let them back. the ifbb won't until he kisses their ass
Will it matter if he sues them into oblivion?
Or just wins his case? What then? Will they apologize and reinstate him immediately?
(sorry, talking 'bout Milos, not Lee...)
-
the ifbb using any technicality they can to screw one of their greatest athletes, even denying him natural justice in the process.
class act. ::)
-
bad analogy once again my friend. some jobs may let them back. the ifbb won't until he kisses their ass
Nobody is asking to have their ass kissed, all he'll have to do is apply...
-
the ifbb using any technicality they can to screw one of their greatest athletes, even denying him natural justice in the process.
class act. ::)
By all means..explain what you're saying.
Can't wait to hear this one.....
-
thats what happens when you speak out against cheating in an org. that has revolutionized cheating
-
I'm still baffled by something......
Bob is doing all this work on Milo's & Lee's behalf.....let a lone all of the IFBB athletes.....
& he doesn't take a payroll
???
-
By all means..explain what you're saying.
Can't wait to hear this one.....
well, of course, there is the silva affair. apparently the ifbb can't wait for the prejudging to finish to threatening sanction on silva because milos posted his pics on his web site, but apparently there isn't the same urgency with the pics with glass and co now is there? not even a peep and i doubt there will be. of course we're all still waiting for the ronnie coleman sanction re the same thing. nope, not much urgency there either. hey, you asked.
as for the subject of the thread, don't be silly chick. if there was no problem, why would you need to go to bat for him? ::) apparently milos is adamant that he has evidence of wrong doing. it seems really funny to me that:
1. he's the one who has to run around gathering it (seeing as they are serious allegations of corruption you would think the organisation would be interested. apparently the opposite is true. interesting).
2. they have been in such a hurry to publically humiliate and sanction him.
as for you chick. at least we can always count on you to defend the ifbb at every turn. i wonder why? weren't you supposed to be the athletes rep? that being the athletes rep as opposed to the ifbb's rep. it seems every time there is a dispute between an athlete and the ifbb you can't wait to tell us everything the athlete did wrong and the ifbb did right?
the interesting thing for me, at least, will be to see how this transpires once milos produces the evidence. :)
-
well, of course, there is the silva affair. apparently the ifbb can't wait for the prejudging to finish to threatening sanction on silva because milos posted his pics on his web site,
1.The IFBB had nothing to do with it.
2. It was a AMI contract that was at issue
3. Silvio was told on the spot it wasn't a problem by myself.
but apparently there isn't the same urgency with the pics with glass and co now is there? not even a peep and i doubt there will be. of course we're all still waiting for the ronnie coleman sanction re the same thing. nope, not much urgency there either. hey, you asked.
Why would there be? The pics were originally posted on Flexonline with permission from AMI...
as for the subject of the thread, don't be silly chick. if there was no problem, why would you need to go to bat for him? ::) apparently milos is adamant that he has evidence of wrong doing. it seems really funny to me that:
1. he's the one who has to run around gathering it (seeing as they are serious allegations of corruption you would think the organisation would be interested. apparently the opposite is true. interesting).
Of course he's the one who has to obtain proof of wrongdoing...HE'S THE ONE WHO ALLEGES IT. If he could provide proof of impropiety, they'll absolutely investigate.
2. they have been in such a hurry to publically humiliate and sanction him.
There was no hurry on either part, as 2 opportunities were given for him to provide proof, and this dates back to December...
There have been no statements issued by the IFBB to humiliate anyone.
as for you chick. at least we can always count on you to defend the ifbb at every turn. i wonder why?
Presenting the facts isn't defending the IFBB...If I had no issue with them, I wouldn't be submiting proposals on a regular basis to change things...
weren't you supposed to be the athletes rep? that being the athletes rep as opposed to the ifbb's rep. it seems every time there is a dispute between an athlete and the ifbb you can't wait to tell us everything the athlete did wrong and the ifbb did right?
Show us all where that has happened...It is what it is. I pleaded with Lee not to defect to the PDI, and told him what would happen as a result. It's not my job to make up peoples minds for them.
Had I known of the facts of Milos' case from day 1...I would have advised a different route, and going through the proper channels i order to avoid exactly what has happened. As it is now, I help as best I can...
the interesting thing for me, at least, will be to see how this transpires once milos produces the evidence. :)
Great...me too. I'm all for Milos presenting evidence...If there is such corruption and wrong doing, I would like to see those responsible removed from their positions immediately. Jim Manion has said the same thing to Milos....no one is disputing what he has said, just that proof needs to be presented to back it up.
Without proof, it's heresay and conjecture...
You may want to get your facts together before making another post on a subject you obviously have little knowledge of...doesn't make you look smart.
-
there you go. see, i thought the AMI was strongly affiliated with the ifbb.
my bad, sorry, i guess i'll get my facts straight next time. ::)
i may have my facts wrong again, but wasn't robin chang the one jumping up and down about the silva pics ??? nah, robin's not an ifbb man is he? never was, where's my head at?
oh, and you 'pleaded' with lee? i gotta admit chick, i've got my facts all scewed up again. i thought i saw nothing but vitriol from you aimed at lee and the pdi.
keep spinning it for the ifbb chick, you're good at that and all under the guise of the 'athlete's rep'.hmmm ;D
-
there you go. see, i thought the AMI was strongly affiliated with the ifbb.
They run the mags...the only thing they have going with the IFBB, is that they pay a sanction fee and run the Olympia
my bad, sorry, i guess i'll get my facts straight next time. ::)
Yes, you should
i may have my facts wrong again, but wasn't robin chang the one jumping up and down about the silva pics ??? nah, robin's not an ifbb man is he? never was, where's my head at?
I would guess it's up your ass...Robin works for AMI..they're the ones PAYING the athlete for exclusivity and also the one's Robin has to answer to. If there is no exclusivity, then there is no reason to have athletes under contract...GET IT?
oh, and you 'pleaded' with lee? i gotta admit chick, i've got my facts all scewed up again. i thought i saw nothing but vitriol from you aimed at lee and the pdi.
Ask anyone who seen the threads and posts leading up to his departure...just because YOU didn't see it doesn't mean it never happened.
keep spinning it for the ifbb chick, you're good at that and all under the guise of the 'athlete's rep'.hmmm ;D
There is no spin...just the facts. I'm the only one who has tried forming a union for the athletes...spin that.
-
Love how, as usual, this plays out on a public message board. ::)
just thinking the same thoughts. ::)
-
I pleaded with Lee not to defect to the PDI,
entering a contest is not defecting. The IFBB is neither a country nor a cause.
-
Oh i forgot the renewel fee to be an IFBB athlete.
Isnt it about 299.00 a year and free blowjobs for the judges??
Quit playing games with words and get Lee back in......... >:(
-
I'm still baffled by something......
Bob is doing all this work on Milo's & Lee's behalf.....let a lone all of the IFBB athletes.....
& he doesn't take a payroll
???
You know the old saying "you get what you pay for" ;D
-
entering a contest is not defecting. The IFBB is neither a country nor a cause.
Yes the IFBB is a cause. See if you don't suck the IFBB's official dick and do exactly what it takes to make them money no matter at what cost to the member (including death and injury) they get rid of you "cause" they only lookout for themselves and NOT their members.
-
Yes the IFBB is a cause. See if you don't suck the IFBB's official dick and do exactly what it takes to make them money no matter at what cost to the member (including death and injury) they get rid of you "cause" they only lookout for themselves and NOT their members.
Who got rid of who?
-
Easy..he's not a member of the IFBB.
The only way it would work that you are automatically "back in"...is if your suspension was within the duration of your membership...
Being suspended doe snot mean he is not a member if the IFBB or is this another way of the IFBB being different. If you get suspended from baseball or SAG or even school you go back after your suspension if you are still a member. Is he not a member cause his dues have lapsed. Cause any other reason would be bogus.
-
Being suspended doe snot mean he is not a member if the IFBB or is this another way of the IFBB being different. If you get suspended from baseball or SAG or even school you go back after your suspension if you are still a member. Is he not a member cause his dues have lapsed. Cause any other reason would be bogus.
You are correct, sir...
As he was under suspension, he did not (was not able to) re-join the IFBB this past year.
-
Yes the IFBB is a cause. See if you don't suck the IFBB's official dick and do exactly what it takes to make them money no matter at what cost to the member (including death and injury) they get rid of you "cause" they only lookout for themselves and NOT their members.
haha, MELTDOWN. Chick owns your mind, fatboy
-
You are correct, sir...
As he was under suspension, he did not (was not able to) re-join the IFBB this past year.
okay
haha, MELTDOWN. Chick owns your mind, fatboy
hahaha like you matter
-
...and it is up...on the 15th.
He's not an active member of the IFBB, and will have to apply for a card/ reinstatement.
Using your own analogy...i would be like someone in jail being released after a year, and automatically returning to their old job...
Chick, how did Victor Martinez get his job back after being released from jail.
-
Chick, how did Victor Martinez get his job back after being released from jail.
come on chester? as if measley prison time could possibly be as bad as exposing corrupt place fixing at shows.
-
You are correct, sir...
As he was under suspension, he did not (was not able to) re-join the IFBB this past year.
Hmmm, what I am curious about is why so few in/around this sport don't use mainstream legal venues to file suit . I know that neither of us are lawyers, but since this decision may affect the living Milos can make ???
Why not file a suit in a civil court????????????? Now that he has all but exhausted dealing with the IFBB directly, why not pursure mainstream legal remedies?
I can tell ya one thing if I was an IFBB pro , I sure as hell would file suit on the basis that the IFBB has failed to enforce its' own drug testing rules! There is already precedent for this in a circuit court in the NJ/NY area about boxing 10 years ago.The judge ruled that pro boxing was neglegent by not drug testing for a championship fight as their rules clearly stated. He used some statute about the "public trust" as basis for his ruling. Can you imagine the IFBB trying to explain their present "policy" to a NON bodybuilder district court judge????yikes!
Look Bob (Chic) , I know the drug issue is pretty awkward for you to discuss and I apologize to put you on the spot here. I fully understand why you would NOT want to respond to this post. However, please consider that by keeping this issue "swept under the rug" it speaks volumes for how disfunctional and out of hand the drug issue has gotten
-
Chick, how did Victor Martinez get his job back after being released from jail.
If the "job" you're talking about was getting back in the IFBB....he applied for a card, like everyone else does.
-
Hmmm, what I am curious about is why so few in/around this sport don't use mainstream legal venues to file suit . I know that neither of us are lawyers, but since this decision may affect the living Milos can make ???
Why not file a suit in a civil court????????????? Now that he has all but exhausted dealing with the IFBB directly, why not pursure mainstream legal remedies?
I can tell ya one thing if I was an IFBB pro , I sure as hell would file suit on the basis that the IFBB has failed to enforce its' own drug testing rules! There is already precedent for this in a circuit court in the NJ/NY area about boxing 10 years ago.The judge ruled that pro boxing was neglegent by not drug testing for a championship fight as their rules clearly stated. He used some statute about the "public trust" as basis for his ruling. Can you imagine the IFBB trying to explain their present "policy" to a NON bodybuilder district court judge????yikes!
Look Bob (Chic) , I know the drug issue is pretty awkward for you to discuss and I apologize to put you on the spot here. I fully understand why you would NOT want to respond to this post. However, please consider that by keeping this issue "swept under the rug" it speaks volumes for how disfunctional and out of hand the drug issue has gotten
very good point. what a can of worms that would open. :o
i feel sorry for chick sometimes (only sometimes). he cops the full brunt of any distaste for the ifbb and, like a loyal dog, always defends their position, but milos had to be censored for 2 main reasons:
1. what precedent does it set when an athlete/manager/fan can verbally chastise and make serious public allegations against a promoter at the actual event and get away with it?
2. the allegations were of such a serious nature that if they didn't punish him, the accused official would have rightly felt betrayed by the ifbb. it has to be stressed that milos' allegations were slanderous and defamatory. as pointed out, milos had plenty of time to present the evidence and all the while the ifbb would have been under intense pressure re the delicacy of the situation.
-
very good point. what a can of worms that would open. :o
i feel sorry for chick sometimes (only sometimes). he cops the full brunt of any distaste for the ifbb and, like a loyal dog, always defends their position, but milos had to be censored for 2 main reasons:
1. what precedent does it set when an athlete/manager/fan can verbally chastise and make serious public allegations against a promoter at the actual event and get away with it?
2. the allegations were of such a serious nature that if they didn't punish him, the accused official would have rightly felt betrayed by the ifbb. it has to be stressed that milos' allegations were slanderous and defamatory. as pointed out, milos had plenty of time to present the evidence and all the while the ifbb would have been under intense pressure re the delicacy of the situation.
Great pts here. Milos may have gitten wind of some "unsavory" attempt to bribe a judge??? He "may" have spoken up LOUDLY about this and felt justified. However, without substantial proof , his contention remains heresay.
Who knows that the reality is and that is the big issue. One thing is clear and that some crap went down and someone somewhere is trying to cover it up.
I know what you man about Bob Chic being in a tough spot at times.
I was lucky enough to be able to speak with him for a good while at the last Col pro. The drug issue is something he just doesn't want to discuss in length for good reason . His main concern and belief is that a "natural /drug free" IFBB pro div would not draw much of a crowd or supplement sponsers.
Ya know, he may be right on that. I am not sure I agree that it would kill the pro sport, but, I can see the lgic in that concern. Bob is dealing with practical solutions to help the sports' pros in the present situation as it actually exists.
I for one think we could get a whole new group as fans if the sport tried to curb the extreme drug use.
-
Isn't heresay when someone else says they heard it from someone else. If Milos actually heard what he heard it isn't heresay. It basically his word against the IFBB. Now its up to the judges to see who is more credible and is telling the truth. I am not sure he needs any hard evidence. It will make it allot easier with evidence and proof. But, if you witness someone getting murdered and go tell the police you saw this person kill someone but don't have any pictures or evidence just the fact that you saw him do it. The police will arrest the guy. The judge would have to determine if Milos is making it up and why would he make it up and what has he got to gain from doing it. milos puts himself up for slander, and contempt if he is found to be lying. So why would he lie. And the IFBB has 40 years of pulling shit and having a less than stellar approach to conducting business. The last place the IFBB would ever want to be is inside a courtroom.
-
Great pts here. Milos may have gitten wind of some "unsavory" attempt to bribe a judge??? He "may" have spoken up LOUDLY about this and felt justified. However, without substantial proof , his contention remains heresay.
Who knows that the reality is and that is the big issue. One thing is clear and that some crap went down and someone somewhere is trying to cover it up.
I know what you man about Bob Chic being in a tough spot at times.
I was lucky enough to be able to speak with him for a good while at the last Col pro. The drug issue is something he just doesn't want to discuss in length for good reason . His main concern and belief is that a "natural /drug free" IFBB pro div would not draw much of a crowd or supplement sponsers.
Ya know, he may be right on that. I am not sure I agree that it would kill the pro sport, but, I can see the lgic in that concern. Bob is dealing with practical solutions to help the sports' pros in the present situation as it actually exists.
I for one think we could get a whole new group as fans if the sport tried to curb the extreme drug use.
i agree with your opinion about bob. i argue the point for the sake of clarity but i do recognise that the man is very good for pro bbing. he is steady as a ship when all the others are making like the titanic and he is dead right re the drug situation.
vince mcmahon (wwf) made a serious attempt to clean up bbing once and that was it's demise on that front. in one contest sponsorship and viability was gone and so was wbf. talk about gone in 60 seconds, wbf was gone in 30 after that.
put it this way, whether people want to acknowledge it or not, if the ifbb was to honestly clean house it would be the only sport honestly doing it. when ex super star boxer, roy jones, tested +ve for testosterone (aswell as his opponent, richard hall) for a fight he said that he may have inadvertently taken it via a supplement, namely 'ripped fuel'. no shit, he actually made that statement, and this is a millionaire with a legal team! anyway, apparently someone with a brain fell over him and told him that ripped fuel contained an active ingredient of ephedrine which is not a hormone. so what did he do? he just changed his statement to inadvertently taking it via a nasal decongestant. now, i'm thinking to myself at the time, "wtf, oh you mean those fucking cortiso-steroid things in sinus meds. you've got to be kidding me." but you know what? joe public didn't give a rat's arse. it wasn't even a blip on the roy jones hype radar. in fact he made 10 times the money the next time he took gear for a fight, which was when he gained 25lbs of muscle to fight hw champ, john ruiz.
now, imagine if that was, sayyy, ronnie coleman. can you imagine the barbeque joe public would have with that one? can you say ronnie coleman and the ifbb on a spit (i'm seeing the ifbb losing coleman quicker than mcmahon did with the wbf though)? how do you think that nasal decongestant theory would fly? hmmm...
drugs are hear and they're here to stay, like it or not. fitness chicks use them ffs, do you really think bbers are going to stop using them, regardless of pr exercise? do you realize what a huge expense in time, money and resources it would be to attempt to honestly clean up the sport? do you really think the ifbb has those things? do you know what they'll be left with when the sponsors go? because you know they'll be gone in 10 seconds, right?
pro sports = drugs
pro bbing = scapegoat for pro sports
-
vince mcmahon (wwf) made a serious attempt to clean up bbing once and that was it's demise on that front.
No, he didn't. He tried to turn it into theater, just like pro wrestling, with costumes and plots and good guys and bad guys. It didn't work because fans didn't want to see a play. They didnt' want to see theatrics. It didn't work because at the end of the play, the guy with the best physique that day still needed to win, which didn't always fit the narrative.
-
No, he didn't. He tried to turn it into theater, just like pro wrestling, with costumes and plots and good guys and bad guys. It didn't work because fans didn't want to see a play. They didnt' want to see theatrics. It didn't work because at the end of the play, the guy with the best physique that day still needed to win, which didn't always fit the narrative.
are you saying he didn't try to clean up the sport or that wasn't the reason for it's demise?
i would answer to the contrary on both points.
he did make a deliberate effort, mainly because he was under intense political pressure because of his dealings (pardon pun) with his wwf athletes.
when it came time for the contest, the makeup and role playing might have worked if most of the competitors didn't look like garbage.
no it didn't fit the narrative. when does mcmahon's shit fit the narrative? but there was still a following up until that point and vince could have worked with the hit if he had a viable enterprise.
with the wrestlers it didn't matter so much when they came in fat because they could still pretend to beat seven shades of shit out of each other and the public would have been happy.
when the bbers all came in fat his only selling point was gone. they were basically too one dimensional and, by doing the stupid acts, he was trying to add another dimension. of course, when the sponsors saw it they took their bats and balls back to the ifbb and voila, stick a fork in the wbf.
-
the sponsors left because the fans left. the fans left because they weren't interested in theater.
"fit the narrative" means that there is a plot arc over many contests that leads to a conclusion at the main event. works great in pro wrestling, not so great in pro bodybuilding.
your original statement was that McMahan tried to clean up bodybuilding. that was not his goal, nor his selling point at the time. (Got 11 of the 20 the WBF Bodybuilding Lifestyles magazine right here. Don't see anything about drug free.) His goal was to make money by adding theatrics to the contests, which failed miserably because bodybuilding fans did not want to see theatrics. They did not want good guys and bad guys and plot arcs.
-
the sponsors left because the fans left. the fans left because they weren't interested in theater.
"fit the narrative" means that there is a plot arc over many contests that leads to a conclusion at the main event. works great in pro wrestling, not so great in pro bodybuilding.
your original statement was that McMahan tried to clean up bodybuilding. that was not his goal, nor his selling point at the time. (Got 11 of the 20 the WBF Bodybuilding Lifestyles magazine right here. Don't see anything about drug free.) His goal was to make money by adding theatrics to the contests, which failed miserably because bodybuilding fans did not want to see theatrics. They did not want good guys and bad guys and plot arcs.
there were 2 contests.
the first one was comprised of the bodies displayed in your post. the second contest, most of those bodies looked nothing like those on the cover of that mag. the acting/ script/plot/narrative was not the problem, it was the bodies.
mike quinn, for example, came in with aboout 20% body fat and smaller.
vince saw the writing on the wall and he dumped the whole thing.
-
i agree with your opinion about bob. i argue the point for the sake of clarity but i do recognise that the man is very good for pro bbing. he is steady as a ship when all the others are making like the titanic and he is dead right re the drug situation.
vince mcmahon (wwf) made a serious attempt to clean up bbing once and that was it's demise on that front. in one contest sponsorship and viability was gone and so was wbf. talk about gone in 60 seconds, wbf was gone in 30 after that.
put it this way, whether people want to acknowledge it or not, if the ifbb was to honestly clean house it would be the only sport honestly doing it. when ex super star boxer, roy jones, tested +ve for testosterone (aswell as his opponent, richard hall) for a fight he said that he may have inadvertently taken it via a supplement, namely 'ripped fuel'. no shit, he actually made that statement, and this is a millionaire with a legal team! anyway, apparently someone with a brain fell over him and told him that ripped fuel contained an active ingredient of ephedrine which is not a hormone. so what did he do? he just changed his statement to inadvertently taking it via a nasal decongestant. now, i'm thinking to myself at the time, "wtf, oh you mean those fucking cortiso-steroid things in sinus meds. you've got to be kidding me." but you know what? joe public didn't give a rat's arse. it wasn't even a blip on the roy jones hype radar. in fact he made 10 times the money the next time he took gear for a fight, which was when he gained 25lbs of muscle to fight hw champ, john ruiz.
now, imagine if that was, sayyy, ronnie coleman. can you imagine the barbeque joe public would have with that one? can you say ronnie coleman and the ifbb on a spit (i'm seeing the ifbb losing coleman quicker than mcmahon did with the wbf though)? how do you think that nasal decongestant theory would fly? hmmm...
drugs are hear and they're here to stay, like it or not. fitness chicks use them ffs, do you really think bbers are going to stop using them, regardless of pr exercise? do you realize what a huge expense in time, money and resources it would be to attempt to honestly clean up the sport? do you really think the ifbb has those things? do you know what they'll be left with when the sponsors go? because you know they'll be gone in 10 seconds, right?
pro sports = drugs
pro bbing = scapegoat for pro sports
GREAT post and really sums up the actual reality with drugs in sports and pro bodybuilding, etc.
I agree and in all honesty, I really don't care if the pros use drugs as long as they don't go such extremes they fall over and go to the hospital or get caught dealing, etc.
In the end I just want to see a good show.
Bob Chic is a steady ship in the often rough seas of pro BB.
Howard
-
I think Milos origionally had someone(Wong Hoeng?) that could have been the nail in the coffin, however shortly after Milos leveled these accusations, he(Wong Hoeng) got cold feet and apologized to Paul Chua. Milos has more details on his site.
-
I think Milos origionally had someone(Wong Hoeng?) that could have been the nail in the coffin, however shortly after Milos leveled these accusations, he(Wong Hoeng) got cold feet and apologized to Paul Chua. Milos has more details on his site.
Heres my recollection of this issue regarding Wong Hong...i heard it was because Wong had posted something in milos's forum and news got back to Paul Chua about the statement.Worse timing too since Wong had to renew his pro card in order to do the Oz pro show and if he didnt sign that piece of paper he wouldnt have gotten his pro card renewed...all this happened right before the Oz pro show after he had done his contest prep.
-
To reply to Howie's suggestion that legal action be taken against the IFBB. Milos knows how much it costs without going to court. He is unlikely to go anywhere near a lawyer because that avenue is risky and way too expensive for civil matters. The IFBB knows this and just does what it pleases. Besides, anyone taking the IFBB to court might as well kiss participating in the IFBB again goodbye.
-
To reply to Howie's suggestion that legal action be taken against the IFBB. Milos knows how much it costs without going to court. He is unlikely to go anywhere near a lawyer because that avenue is risky and way too expensive for civil matters. The IFBB knows this and just does what it pleases. Besides, anyone taking the IFBB to court might as well kiss participating in the IFBB again goodbye.
Interesting ideas here and may be some truth???
I know from firsthand experience that drug testing a big contest that has always been a NON tested can result in the end of it. Case in pt the AAU Mr America. I was an official and judge for many years in AAU physique. We started to test at the USA ith no problems, but after the testing at the MR A in 1995, all hell broke loose.
In brief, after 2 years (95-96) of law suits and endless hassles the show ended when Disney sports dropped physique from its' lineup of AAU sports.
The problem as I see it is twofold:
1. The vast majority of hardcore bodybuilders and those who are active as everything from fans to judges PREFER a drugged bodybuilder, especially at the pro level. For whatever reason(s) most hardcore fans and bodybuilders want a more massive, freaky, ripped look.
2. The "natural" tag = lousy, small physiques in many fans/competitors minds.
The reality is NOT that drastic in my opinion, but too many have come to firmly believe that an impressive physique is impossible without drugs ( and extreme drug use at that). In my humble opinion, many of the best guys : Cutler, Ronnie , Dexter, Darrem, etc would still look damn impressive without drugs.
Kai Green won a few shows in the WNBF and they do very stringent drug testing.
Granted it was not as big/thick as he is now, but he still looked incredible and his posing was incredible.
In the end Bob Chic is doing the best he can to push some practical ideas that will work with the situation ,as it is.
He has a good pt as we are seeing a bigger line up of IFBB pro events.
Howard
Ya know, I think I am just going to drop the drug issue for good and stop posting about it. Most don't want to hear about it and prefer a drug enhanced sport. Overall, I love bodybuilding and just want to attend a great event.
-
It is what it is, Howard...
The fans dictate what they like and what they support..and judging by the underwhelming response to Natural shows, athletes, and natural mags...It looks like the people have spoken.
Look at the response to a smaller line-up in the IFBB....."weak line up...third tier show...shit show- no big names.." etc...........forget about anyone interested in seing naturals battle it out, people want to see bigger, better, freakier, faster, etc...not just in BB, but all sports.
-
Look at the response to a smaller line-up in the IFBB....."weak line up...third tier show...shit show- no big names.." etc...........forget about anyone interested in seing naturals battle it out, people want to see bigger, better, freakier, faster, etc...not just in BB, but all sports.
are you saying that if Cutler or Coleman showed up in Denver or LA or NYC, those shows would suddenly sell out? Then why doesn't the IFBB require everyone to requalify for the Olympia every year? or just otherwise encourage top tier bodybuilders to enter these shows?
-
are you saying that if Cutler or Coleman showed up in Denver or LA or NYC, those shows would suddenly sell out? Then why doesn't the IFBB require everyone to requalify for the Olympia every year? or just otherwise encourage top tier bodybuilders to enter these shows?
Yes...bigger line-ups mean bigger gate, as evidenced by the Olympia and the Arnold.....Believe me...If it were my call...Only 1 guy would get a pass, and thats Mr. Olympia...other than that...I would make everybody requalify.
-
Yes...bigger line-ups mean bigger gate, as evidenced by the Olympia and the Arnold.....Believe me...If it were my call...Only 1 guy would get a pass, and thats Mr. Olympia...other than that...I would make everybody requalify.
that's the way to go...keep em all hungry and make them compete
-
It is what it is, Howard...
The fans dictate what they like and what they support..and judging by the underwhelming response to Natural shows, athletes, and natural mags...It looks like the people have spoken.
Look at the response to a smaller line-up in the IFBB....."weak line up...third tier show...shit show- no big names.." etc...........forget about anyone interested in seing naturals battle it out, people want to see bigger, better, freakier, faster, etc...not just in BB, but all sports.
Well finally you admit the Colorado Pro was shitty. I guess their is a first time for everything. 8)
-
It is what it is, Howard...
The fans dictate what they like and what they support..and judging by the underwhelming response to Natural shows, athletes, and natural mags...It looks like the people have spoken.
Look at the response to a smaller line-up in the IFBB....."weak line up...third tier show...shit show- no big names.." etc...........forget about anyone interested in seing naturals battle it out, people want to see bigger, better, freakier, faster, etc...not just in BB, but all sports.
In keeping with my new theme of not beating the "drug issue dead horse ", all I am going to say is thanks for the response and I agree with the reality on this issue.
I really like your idea of having every pro but Mr O REqualify for the O each yr.
Howard
-
It is what it is, Howard...
The fans dictate what they like and what they support..and judging by the underwhelming response to Natural shows, athletes, and natural mags...It looks like the people have spoken.
A sheriff you can be, Bob, but never will you be a philosopher. Your post is called rationalization. Imagine saying that the fans dictate what happens in the Olympic Games! The hardcore fans might support the top shows but what has happened is those shows cost a lot of money to see. If they bring a star down to Australia the tickets for those contests is quite high and that puts off a lot of people.
There has been an explosion in the number of people training in gyms. We have had a chain of gyms open in Australia and these are big, well equipped clubs. Various RSL and social clubs are installing gyms as are swimming pools. There should be a huge potential fan base for bodybuilding contests.
If we take the Colorado contest as an example then look at how many contestants were in the fitness and figure categories. Apparently a lot of people left after the gals section ended.
The Olympia and Arnold Classic have grown but most of the other shows have dwindled. Women's bodybuilding went broke and now needs to be included in the Mr shows or there will be no Ms Olympia.
People have pointed out what is wrong with the Irongame but those in control can't do much to change anything. The IFBB has usually followed and seldom led much in bodybuilding. Oh, their one big innovation was creating the Athletes Rep position! The bottom line is the IFBB won't do drug testing because DeMilia would pick up all the users.
Nothing short of a complete replacement of those running this sport will deliver more fans and save this sport.
-
A sheriff you can be, Bob, but never will you be a philosopher. Your post is called rationalization. Imagine saying that the fans dictate what happens in the Olympic Games! The hardcore fans might support the top shows but what has happened is those shows cost a lot of money to see. If they bring a star down to Australia the tickets for those contests is quite high and that puts off a lot of people.
There has been an explosion in the number of people training in gyms. We have had a chain of gyms open in Australia and these are big, well equipped clubs. Various RSL and social clubs are installing gyms as are swimming pools. There should be a huge potential fan base for bodybuilding contests.
If we take the Colorado contest as an example then look at how many contestants were in the fitness and figure categories. Apparently a lot of people left after the gals section ended.
The Olympia and Arnold Classic have grown but most of the other shows have dwindled. Women's bodybuilding went broke and now needs to be included in the Mr shows or there will be no Ms Olympia.
People have pointed out what is wrong with the Irongame but those in control can't do much to change anything. The IFBB has usually followed and seldom led much in bodybuilding. Oh, their one big innovation was creating the Athletes Rep position! The bottom line is the IFBB won't do drug testing because DeMilia would pick up all the users.
Nothing short of a complete replacement of those running this sport will deliver more fans and save this sport.
No...my post is called realization, as in REALITY. Faster you recognize it, the better.
-
Bob, you deserve shiny sheriff stars on Getbig.
-
Bob, you deserve shiny sheriff stars on Getbig.
Maybe you could invent them....?
-
Maybe you could invent them....?
service with a smile
-
A sheriff you can be, Bob, but never will you be a philosopher. Your post is called rationalization. Imagine saying that the fans dictate what happens in the Olympic Games! The hardcore fans might support the top shows but what has happened is those shows cost a lot of money to see. If they bring a star down to Australia the tickets for those contests is quite high and that puts off a lot of people.
There has been an explosion in the number of people training in gyms. We have had a chain of gyms open in Australia and these are big, well equipped clubs. Various RSL and social clubs are installing gyms as are swimming pools. There should be a huge potential fan base for bodybuilding contests.
If we take the Colorado contest as an example then look at how many contestants were in the fitness and figure categories. Apparently a lot of people left after the gals section ended.
The Olympia and Arnold Classic have grown but most of the other shows have dwindled. Women's bodybuilding went broke and now needs to be included in the Mr shows or there will be no Ms Olympia.
People have pointed out what is wrong with the Irongame but those in control can't do much to change anything. The IFBB has usually followed and seldom led much in bodybuilding. Oh, their one big innovation was creating the Athletes Rep position! The bottom line is the IFBB won't do drug testing because DeMilia would pick up all the users.
Nothing short of a complete replacement of those running this sport will deliver more fans and save this sport.
I would LOVE to see a drug tested IFBB pro league, but sadly must confess and accept that I am part of a very small minority that actually go to shows. Interest in fitness and fat loss may not translate into a bodybuilding show market????????? who knows???
Bob Chic is right in trying to deal with things as they are and "nudge" them in the right direction.
Here are some actual postive changes that could happen:
1. Require all guys except Mr O to qualify for the O each year.
* I would add the all pros must compete in at least 2 shows (besides the O ) each calender yr.
2. Have a code of conduct for guest posing ( my idea).
Show up in decent shape, mingle with fans and act like a pro, etc.
3. Put in an under 210 class for more shows.
-
It is a pity that we need guys like Bob. I have no beef with him. It is the pro IFBB division that sucks. If the IFBB ran things according to Ben's vision things would be fine. Somehow he lost control and now look at the sport.
I own a gym and have been a PE teacher. I know what the public thinks about bodybuilders. Recently a member won the natural Mr Australia and he had no trouble getting exposure in the local newspaper. They did a full cover colour photo of him on Australia Day a few months ago plus a story. The public will accept natural champions. The open guys are impressive and huge. Everyone is impressed but there is no envy because of the drugs, etc.
If and when the sport reclaims its health and fitness image we will find a totally different public perception and the men and women will be celebrated instead of criticized.
Howie should be able to see this. I know others do. It is not good enough to keep our collective heads in the sand and accept the inevitability of using steroids and goodness knows what else.
Doctor John Ziegler apparently helped Ciba develop Dianabol. The sport has never been the same since. Even Doctor John walked away from the bodybuilders and weightlifters when they exceeded his protocols. People will alway look for an advantage and some will take risks. In the old days everyone was afraid of taking dangerous hormones. Nowadays even schoolboys take steroids. It took me 11 years to try Dianabol and that wasn't something I was proud of. Today I know enough about training that I don't need drugs to get as big or bigger than I was in the 1970s. People believe we need drugs to get really great physiques and that is clearly false. The women do benefit more from testosterone and its derivitives.
If this board represents the culture then nothing is going to change and that is a pity. Bob plods on and accepts the drugs because he is part of the culture. There is enough science known to bypass dangerous drugs. Equipment has evolved to be very effective. All we need is the motivation to do it naturally and be rewarded for all that hard work.
-
Show us all where that has happened...It is what it is. I pleaded with Lee not to defect to the PDI, and told him what would happen as a result. It's not my job to make up peoples minds for them.
actaully, all you did was ridicule the PDI not even acknowledging the NOC, stating that the event wouldn't even occur. If this is your form of athlete representation, good job.
the interesting thing for me, at least, will be to see how this transpires once milos produces the evidence.
Let me tell you then how this will transpire.
Milos will get a slap on the wrist, Paul Chua will continue his corrupt ways, Manion and Weinberger will go about their business quite indifferent.
Great...me too. I'm all for Milos presenting evidence...If there is such corruption and wrong doing, I would like to see those responsible removed from their positions immediately. Jim Manion has said the same thing to Milos....no one is disputing what he has said, just that proof needs to be presented to back it up.
and IFBB pros don't use steroid right?
-
Vince Basille, i just don't understand your argument about drugs. You yourself got in your best shape using dbol, and all your contempoaries turned themselves into supermen by using dbol, deca, primo, test, etc etc. ALL of the great champs have used the gear - and they always will. I would go as far to say that most of the great sportsmen of the past thirty five years have used performance enhancing drugs.
Don't blame Bob - in this he is innocent
-
It is a pity that we need guys like Bob. I have no beef with him. It is the pro IFBB division that sucks. If the IFBB ran things according to Ben's vision things would be fine. Somehow he lost control and now look at the sport.
I own a gym and have been a PE teacher. I know what the public thinks about bodybuilders. Recently a member won the natural Mr Australia and he had no trouble getting exposure in the local newspaper. They did a full cover colour photo of him on Australia Day a few months ago plus a story. The public will accept natural champions. The open guys are impressive and huge. Everyone is impressed but there is no envy because of the drugs, etc.
If and when the sport reclaims its health and fitness image we will find a totally different public perception and the men and women will be celebrated instead of criticized.
Howie should be able to see this. I know others do. It is not good enough to keep our collective heads in the sand and accept the inevitability of using steroids and goodness knows what else.
Doctor John Ziegler apparently helped Ciba develop Dianabol. The sport has never been the same since. Even Doctor John walked away from the bodybuilders and weightlifters when they exceeded his protocols. People will alway look for an advantage and some will take risks. In the old days everyone was afraid of taking dangerous hormones. Nowadays even schoolboys take steroids. It took me 11 years to try Dianabol and that wasn't something I was proud of. Today I know enough about training that I don't need drugs to get as big or bigger than I was in the 1970s. People believe we need drugs to get really great physiques and that is clearly false. The women do benefit more from testosterone and its derivitives.
If this board represents the culture then nothing is going to change and that is a pity. Bob plods on and accepts the drugs because he is part of the culture. There is enough science known to bypass dangerous drugs. Equipment has evolved to be very effective. All we need is the motivation to do it naturally and be rewarded for all that hard work.
I know I was not going to post any more crap related to drugs, but, since you wrote such a thoughtful pc , here goes.
Mr Basile, I sincerely enjoy reading your posts. I may not always agree with every argument , but I admire your idealistic thoughts . I know what you mean about media coverage with natural champs. The 1994 NPC Ironman natural was the only contest every shown on mainstream sports media in Louisiana. I was lucky enough to win and got a short spot on the Baton Rouge state based news. The last natural show SNBF here in Marietta Ga was an actual sell out. I was shocked and even went inside and felt it was a mistake until the actual promoter came out and told a bunch of us, sorry, it was sold out.
Bodybuilding is unlke any other sport in terms of steroid use. Name one hall of fame player in baseball that didn't use roids? * you can name plenty! Now name one Mr Olympia or guy that placed (top 6) in the Olympia that competed clean? I can't think of one , can you? Top physiques have always been linked with roid use and the culture of the sport does not know any other way, (for the most part).
Bob Chic is correct to think that pushing for a fully drug tested pro div would NOT be a wise move for the IFBB.
It is a pretty big gamble on that level and one that I wouldn't want to take. It is one thing to talk ideals,and another to have to promote $$$ an event and get sponsers, etc.
I will continue to attend , support and enjoy IFBB pro events .
I only hope the guys use enough "good sense" and don't end up in the hospital or jail.
Howard
-
No...my post is called realization, as in REALITY. Faster you recognize it, the better.
THE REALITY CHICK, OR CHICKEN LITTLE, IS THAT YOU'RE DODGING THE QUESTIONS YOU SOMETIMES ASK. WE'RE WAITING FOR A RESPONSE ON THE "OFFICIAL LEE PREIST REINSTATEMENT" POST. IT SEEMS THAT FOR ONCE, YOUR SHUTTING UP!!!!! IF YOU DON'T ANSWER, MIGHT AS WELL JUST SHUT UP FOR GOOD. IT WOULD REALLY HELP BB'S FUTURE. YOU AND THE IFBB WILL NEVER COME CLEAN!!!
-
In the 1970s, an American writer was banned from a professional organization because she supported another writer the organization had just banned. Someone asked her what it was like to be outside the whale. She said, "You mean, outside the guppie?"
-
Paul Chua no longer head of Singapore bodybuilding. Now executive assistant to IFBB president Rafael Santonja, which means that Chua is the #2 guy in all of the IFBB.
Paul Chua steps down as SBBF president (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/285677/1/.html)
-
Paul Chua no longer head of Singapore bodybuilding. Now executive assistant to IFBB president Rafael Santonja, which means that Chua is the #2 guy in all of the IFBB.
Paul Chua steps down as SBBF president (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/285677/1/.html)
Oh great. Now we're all going to get banned... :-\
-
Milos was right, yes!
-
So,for conclusion,
What was the benefit for Milos doing this?
-
So,for conclusion, What was the benefit for Milos doing this?
well, he was trying to do the right thing. sometimes when you do the right thing, you still lose, at least in the short term.
-
It doesn't pay to point out the emperor is wearing no clothes. :-\
-
It doesn't pay to point out the emperor is wearing no clothes. :-\
It does pay to point out the killer who is killing the sport of bodybuilding (in Asia)...
-
I got some news from a Bahrain Champ saying their federation paid Paul Chua US$32000 to disregard the positive doping test of Bahrain’s Gold medal Terek Feresani and Silver medal Faisal Sayed in the Asian games. Also to allow Munther and Aziz to judge the next world championship although they have no background in international judging.
And the Bahrain team lost a gold medal in the 80KG for Mohamed Sebeh because one English man who was the Thailand Champion friend bought for Paul Chua a new Range Rover.
This was sent to me by one of the champions who was not allowed to compete this year and was not given his allowances and salary cause they had to pay Paul Chua and he was pissed because of that.
-
I got some news from a Bahrain Champ saying their federation paid Paul Chua US$32000 to disregard the positive doping test of Bahrain’s Gold medal Terek Feresani and Silver medal Faisal Sayed in the Asian games. Also to allow Munther and Aziz to judge the next world championship although they have no background in international judging.
And the Bahrain team lost a gold medal in the 80KG for Mohamed Sebeh because one English man who was the Thailand Champion friend bought for Paul Chua a new Range Rover.
This was sent to me by one of the champions who was not allowed to compete this year and was not given his allowances and salary cause they had to pay Paul Chua and he was pissed because of that.
I AM SURE...That would be first that someone publicly talks about it...
BTW - they made a "good deal" and didn't pay too much...Paul went easy on them. ;)
Bahrain coach did tell me that he can speak to me until the doping test results are published...maybe now he can?
Tell him that I am still waiting.
-
Fair enough. However, I think it is your lack of in enacting any real change, despite your protestations to the contrary, that frustrates everybody here at Gb. And, in that light, your 'moral outrage' against my analogy rings patently false.
Show us some real, positive change, and you will have no better supporters than us. Continue with the same ambivalent wordsmithing and you will continue to be seen as nothing more than a shop steward.
I AGREE!!!!!!!
-
I don’t know who deleted the thread about Paul chua receiving bribe –guess it was bob.
But I just want to clarify this issue that it was sent to me via messenger from an actual bodybuilder / champion from Bahrain who was very closely involved with the federation. Because he has bad English he wanted anyone to post for him; and I guess a lot of other members on getbig got it but no one else posted it
-
I don’t know who deleted the thread about Paul chua receiving bribe –guess it was bob.
But I just want to clarify this issue that it was sent to me via messenger from an actual bodybuilder / champion from Bahrain who was very closely involved with the federation. Because he has bad English he wanted anyone to post for him; and I guess a lot of other members on getbig got it but no one else posted it
Hmmmmmm, someone deleted the thread about Paul Chua receiving bribe?
-
Hmmmmmm, someone deleted the thread about Paul Chua receiving bribe?
Paul paid Ron a bribe to delete it! ;D
-
Hmmmmmm, someone deleted the thread about Paul Chua receiving bribe?
when is this 'evidence' going to turn up milos ?
you claimed that you had much reading material but i haven't seen any of it yet.
please tell me you weren't lying ???
-
It does pay to point out the killer who is killing the sport of bodybuilding (in Asia)...
payment: 2 years ban for Mr. Milos Sarcev.
-
Hmmmmmm, someone deleted the thread about Paul Chua receiving bribe?
corruption threads will be deleted
-
http://milossarcev.com/board/index.php?topic=8690.msg111157#msg111157
-
Milos does say it like it is! Refreshing! Unfortunately, this admirable trait does land him in hot water from time to time - especially, the Paul Chua affair and his allegations of official corruption in the Asian Games by Paul Chua, Secretary General of the Asian Bodybuilding Federation and VP of the IFBB. His reward for his efforts to clean up the sport? A 1 year supension from the IFBB Pro League led by the unsconcionable Jim Manion. Again unfortunately, every single one of Milos' allegations against Paul Chua is true! Also unfortunately (for Paul Chua) this action against Milos was a mistake - a BIG MISTAKE for it finally aroused a sizeable community in Asian Bodybuilding and gave us the courage to take this action!
For many decades now, Asian bodybuilders and Officials (apart from Paul Chua's lackeys and sycophants) have cowered in the face of the propensity of this man to SUSPEND anyone who even remotely resembles a threat to exposing his corrupt ways.
What are the ways. He places compliant judges willing to do his bidding in the Asian Games and the SEA Games and then proceeds to sell the gold medal to the highest bidder, often for staggering sums reaching US$75,000. Why is he able to do this? Because, unlike the USA, Asian Governments lavish massive cash rewards (sometimes, even houses and prime real estate) for gold medals in these Games. This explains the anomaly and unique phenomena of many Asian bodybuilding champions winning multiple Mr. Universe titles and then the very next week, lose to some nobody at the SEA Games! The reason is simple - Paul Chua has no control over the judging at the Mr. U's and Asian Governments do not care two hoots about that title, so Paul leaves these non-Games titles basically alone, as they do not attract the larghese of Asian Governments!
But wait, justice is finally on the way! A website called ArrestPaulChua.com has finally gone LIVE to collect and collate evidence to put Paul Chua where crooks like him belong - in the slammer!
Paul Chua has often confided privately that his secret ambition is to become IFBB President. This unscrupulous man has advanced so far in the IFBB because of his ability to throw the book at anyone who dares to utter a squeak or threaten to expose his misdeeds, backed as always by the IFBB machinery! Perhaps, Rafael Santonja should step aside to let Paul attain his aspirations - so that we can have the first sitting IFBB President, sitting in jail!
In any event, spread the word. The site can be accessed by clicking on www.arrestpaulchua.com in the url or by Googling "Arrest Paul Chua" or even simply, "Paul Chua". The end is nigh for this IFBB Asian crook of crooks! We are interested in solid evidence of wrong doing by Paul, so that we can report him to the Singapore Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau (where he resides and carries out his crimes) You can bet that every bodybuilding scribe, magazine and website, plus the mainstream media all over Asia and the world, plus every Bodybuilding Organization and Committee all over Asia and the world will be alerted to the existence of this website of conscience!
Frank D. Law
Chairman
Arrest Paul Chua Executive Committee
-
I am just re-posting something found on this very board...
As last time Mr. Mohamed Abdulrahim Abdulla, president of Bahrain Bodybuilding Federation sent me official letter + started the thread here on GETBIG stating that I am "misbehaving and acting like uneducated person" I would point out to him and others...THIS IS NOT MY POST (just like the last time...).
I am only re-posting interesting comments of others...
As always - TRUTH FINDS THE WAY TO COME OUT...and sooner or later TRUTH WILL BE TOLD...
My suspension is almost over...so I will wait just a little bit longer...
Armageddon
Getbig II
**
Posts: 318
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Paul Chua: Wold Champion tested Positive
« on: Today at 04:40:51 AM »
Reply with quoteQuote
I got the following from the Bahrain Bodybuilding federation president (Mohammed Abdulla):
Kamal Salam form Qatar (85KG) was tested positive for “trenbolone” in the Asian Championship. This is the second time he is testing positive –first time being world championship in 2003- an official from Qatar (Ibrahim Mohamed Kafod) was sent to Paul Chua to clear the matter and discuss how much they have to pay to cover the tests and let Kamal do the world championship after 10 days in Korea.
The amount is not finalized yet but new from Bahrain is that they will pay a sum of US$100000 to the Asian federation just to let it slip. The Bahraini federation is not happy with the decision cause having Kamal in the lineup will weaken their chances of scoring.
-
Still waiting for my answer.
What's the harm of Milo's going back stage at a contest?
he might be able to help his competitors prep for their routines and they they might have a better shot of winning a contest.
its all bullshit politics. Ifbb is trying to make an example of him to get people to just keep their mouths shut and play their little game.
Come & Check out Getbig's Pet Board
News, Nutrition/Healthcare, & Gossip
A place to talk about pets & animals
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=59.0
-
;D
-
;D
Milos, slow day at work?
-
Milos, slow day at work?
Never (slow)...
Interesting how nobody is responding...
There are few names mentioned....Mr. Mohamed Abdulrahim Abdulla, president of Bahrain Bodybuilding Federation - same gentleman who officially sent me a warnning letter...is now being upset about someone else paying more to get what they want....?
-
Never (slow)...
Interesting how nobody is responding...
There are few names mentioned....Mr. Mohamed Abdulrahim Abdulla, president of Bahrain Bodybuilding Federation - same gentleman who officially sent me a warnning letter...is now being upset about someone else paying more to get what they want....?
i must say, for all our differences, i really so hope you come up with the goods on chua. something is definitely not right here (we've all seen those contest pics).
it's just a little frustrating that over a year later all we have is accusations without solid proof, maybe it's just the nature of the game?
sorry to say that when you things like a totally outclassed and bloated jay cutler beating (not even ccompared) a far superior dennis wolf, it doesn't seem to be heading in the right direction either.
-
It's sad but true. Poor Milos has to pay the price for his forthright and outspoken nature whilst the rest of Asian bodybuilding officialdom and bbers cower under the onslaught of Paul Chua's hammer! You see, Paul has sown such a climate of fear in Asian Bodybuilding over the decades, by throwing the book at anyone who's in a position to expose his criminal ways and misdeeds. Presidents, officials and even entire National Committees have been suspended and their careers ended for uttering the slightest squeek, not to speak of competing bbers.
That this crook is able to continue to roam the halls of power of the IFBB is due to the fact that he's the official WEIDER distributor for ASIA for quite a few decades now. He simply employs the age-old tactics of the mafia to eliminate and silence any threat of exposure (except that he uses the IFBB official machinery such as the IFBB Pro League, instead of machine guns).
The rest he leaves to the natural tendency of Joe public to second guess - where's the concrete proof?, did he or didn't he?
Now proof can be forthcoming. Thanks to this unjust action by Paul Chua and the IFBB against Milos, it has aroused the ire of a significant silent majority in Asian bb, and given us the courage to finally act! We've set up a website, called www.arrestpaulchua.com to collect and collate evidence against this Asian IFBB crook of crooks and to put him where people lile him belong - in the slammer! Just Google "Paul Chua" or "Arrest Paul Chua" and see for yourself the UNSTOPPABLE FORCE of right over wrong!
Because of the sums bandied about (of up to US100 thousand for a Games Title) which to some of you may border on the incredulous, it is necessary to give you a little insight into the mind of Asian Governments.
We have amateur bb titles such as the Mr. Universe, Mr. World or Mr. What-have-you. Asian Governments do not care 2 hoots about them. Paul Chua knows this and so he basically leaves this segment alone, partly due to the fact that they do not attract the larghesse of Asian Governments and partly because he has no direct control over the judging. Asian bber's, especially in the lighter classes do win these amateur titles, and some of them win multiple times (with Paul Chua triumphantly raising their hands in victory each time, ala Don King).
However, Bodybuilding GOLD Medals in the ASIAN GAMES or even the SEA GAMES (SE Asian GAMES) are a different proposition altogether!Because these games are sanctioned by the IOC and the national prestige that those games presumably profers, Asian Governments through their respective Sports Ministries go ga ga whenever one of their national athletes wins a Gold Medal at these Games. The Ministries together with coporate sponsors roll out the rewards for the gold medallist and their Bodybuilding Associations, often to the tune of Hundreds of Thousands, cars, houses, and even land. Wily old Paul Chua has spotted an opportunity as he, in his virtually omnipotent position as IFBB head honcho for Asia, can then appoint compliant judges from his long entourage of lapdogs and sycophants. He then proceeds to sell the Games Gold Medal to the highest bidder! So we have the uniques phenomena in Asia of BBers winning multiple Mr U's and the just a week later loses to some smooth tyro at the minor SEA Games!
He can do this with impunity because he knows 4 things:
1. Joe Public will always demand concrete proof
2. He can throw the book at anyone, (including Milos) who dares to suggest that he is corrupt
3. Concrete proof is always a rare commodity in view of the surreptitious nature of the crimes and the environment of Mafia-like conditioned fear carefully built up in Asia by him.
4. He can count on the IFBB to back him up as he's IFBB VP for Asia, Special Assistant to Rafael Santonja, and Official Distributor for Weider Products for Asia.
Hey, even Ben Weider has been known to look the other way! In an SEA Games contest in which Ben Weider was invited to hand over the medals, in which the obvious winner had been given a dissapointing 3rd placing, Ben told the athlete as he handed over the medal: "I know, I know what's going on...just be patient!"
Do spread word about the site. Inevitably, someone will pluck up the courage to come up with concrete proof. Then it's hasta la vista Paul Chua! We can potentially have the first sitting IFBB President (if he fulfils his secret ambition to become ultimately IFBB President) sitting in jail!
Frank D Law (meaning The Truth and The Law)
-
I wonder if Milos' wife wears here "Zena, princess warrior outfit to bed"
I have spent many hours pondering life's mysteries.
-
Just got word that there are pictures floating around the net of Paul Chua cavorting with Myanmar Generals (members of that murderous regime that just shot pro-democracy protestors/citizens) enjoying dinner with them and presenting them with momentos (IFBB Certificates of Merit?)
It does give you a sense of the values that this man has! At least Ben Weider was principled enough to attend this contest in Burma.
Anyone with pictures of Paul Chua consorting with these murderers, please post on the Arrest Paul Chua website.
Further, I've been informed that Paul Chua is a "Love Rat" keeping a mistress in Kuala Lumpur. Apparently, he introduces this ex-lady bodybuilder from Hong Kong called "Christina" whom he meets regularly at his love nest in a condo in Kuala Lumpur conveniently as his wife at official IFBB functions when his wife is not around! Any one with pictures of Paul Chua with this girl, please post on www.arrestpaulchua.com
What's the IFBB to say of their second most senior official taking advantage of some poor, young and naive figure contestant, participating in a contest that he sanctions? Aren't there any Codes of Conduct in force?
-
I am just re-posting something found on this very board...
As last time Mr. Mohamed Abdulrahim Abdulla, president of Bahrain Bodybuilding Federation sent me official letter + started the thread here on GETBIG stating that I am "misbehaving and acting like uneducated person" I would point out to him and others...THIS IS NOT MY POST (just like the last time...).
I am only re-posting interesting comments of others...
As always - TRUTH FINDS THE WAY TO COME OUT...and sooner or later TRUTH WILL BE TOLD...
My suspension is almost over...so I will wait just a little bit longer...
Armageddon
Getbig II
**
Posts: 318
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Paul Chua: Wold Champion tested Positive
« on: Today at 04:40:51 AM »
Reply with quoteQuote
I got the following from the Bahrain Bodybuilding federation president (Mohammed Abdulla):
Kamal Salam form Qatar (85KG) was tested positive for “trenbolone” in the Asian Championship. This is the second time he is testing positive –first time being world championship in 2003- an official from Qatar (Ibrahim Mohamed Kafod) was sent to Paul Chua to clear the matter and discuss how much they have to pay to cover the tests and let Kamal do the world championship after 10 days in Korea.
The amount is not finalized yet but new from Bahrain is that they will pay a sum of US$100000 to the Asian federation just to let it slip. The Bahraini federation is not happy with the decision cause having Kamal in the lineup will weaken their chances of scoring.
can you post the letter or email that you got
-
Just got word that there are pictures floating around the net of Paul Chua cavorting with Myanmar Generals (members of that murderous regime that just shot pro-democracy protestors/citizens) enjoying dinner with them and presenting them with momentos (IFBB Certificates of Merit?)
It does give you a sense of the values that this man has! At least Ben Weider was principled enough to attend this contest in Burma.
I'd be willing to bet George W Bush has killed far more people than those douches in Myanmar, yet you'd probably have no problem if Chua had dinner with him.
Besides, when is having dinner a crime anyway, regardless of the character of your dinner companions? It's not like Chua was a spectator at the executions, or pulled the trigger himself for them, is it? ::)
-
Milos it seems you always have some kind of excuse for whatever happens to you. You always the victim and everyone is just picking on you and you such a great person, friend, trainer. Only for some reason IFBB has a problem with you, athletes that you call brothers have problem with you and majority of athletes you work with somehow end up looking worse than before they started working with you.
-
Milos it seems you always have some kind of excuse for whatever happens to you. You always the victim and everyone is just picking on you and you such a great person, friend, trainer. Only for some reason IFBB has a problem with you, athletes that you call brothers have problem with you and majority of athletes you work with somehow end up looking worse than before they started working with you.
Find me example when I look for any (kind of) EXCUSE(S)... ;D
I am actually exactly the opposite - never looking for excuses (why I didn't do something) rather - I am always looking for solutions (how to do that "something")...
If I am a "victim" or not - we'll see very soon...
IFBB had a problem with me - and I am suspended...Suspension is almost over - and than what? ;)
After suspension...[IF OR WHEN I PROVE MY INNOCENCE] ;) maybe official apology will have to take the place...or something even greater than that?
Now, athletes that I am calling "brothers" are very few...but in general EVERY SINGLE ONE of the athletes I've worked with - IMPROVED...and some improved dramatically...which is exact reason WHY they came to me in the first place...
Or maybe you are suggesting - my results are so horrible that guys choose to hire me as they believe my "IFBB connection" will lead them towards "favorable judging"... ::)
But, than again - coming from "getbig anonymous" your words really MEAN A LOT TO ME ::)...as I find that you must be so sincere ;D and honest ;D ;D ;D- and what's more I am sure that you also must be ready to introduce yourself to me, and other readers of this wonderful forum ::) - at no time...I hope you'll have MORE open questions and remarks...
I am ALWAYS ready to answer ANY of the questions WHEN I KNOW who I am talking to...After all it is only fair...don't you think? ;)
-
Milos, i was just stating what is known to everyone.
you have beef with ifbb, but thats ok, since they not exactly what you would call honest organization with intergrity.
you called mustafa brother on numerous occasions and then you had personal problems and you decided to take it to internet rather than solve your problem between "brothers" and went out of your way to humliliate mustafa, which he probably deserved, but still.
gustavo looked great when he worked with you first time and then it was downhill and friendship and your working relationship fizzled.
luke looked great in the beginning but same thing, he went downhill.
dennis james looked his best when placed 4th at the O and that was when he worked with chad, not you.
silvio, well we all saw what happened and how the truth came out that you are a control freak who acts more like a dictator rather than friend.
it is a simple observation. thats all. not a personal attack.
-
How would any of us have any clue about Paul Chua? This belongs on the Asian Board.
-
Hey Goatboy,
I can understand your ambivalence on that murderous junta in that far flung place called Myanmar/Burma. It's easy for you to write that as you can protest peacefully anywhere in the States, and all you'd get is a few hours in the slammer, but only if you resort to violence!
However, unlike the US of A and other civilized nations, the entire world knows that this group of ruthless Generals are the pariahs of the International community! They'd put their democratically elected leader (Aung San Su Kyi) under house arrest for the past 2 decades after her electoral victory and they put down peaceful protests from its own people with bullets, beatings and long term jail? In fact, the US is tabling a motion to expel them from the UN.
Would you like to see Rafael Santonja consorting with such criminals. Paul Chua did more than have dinner with them. He actually presented IFBB Certificates of Merit to these crooks in military garb!
-
Hi Special Ed,
This belongs only on an Asian Board? Isn't Paul Chua the Special Assistant to the IFBB President and IFBB Vice president? In fact, this man is the second most powerful official in the IFBB.
So we move this to an Asian Board. Then what happens? The Asian Bodybuilding community is so terrified of Paul Chua that nobody has ever dared to say anything about this crook over the DECADES, until Milos stepped forward.
I call on all right minded BBers in the US, Europe and all over Asia who've talked trash over Milos' "inability to furnish proof" to acknowledge that he has been wrongly crucified by the IFBB Pro League and in these threads! If not for this brave man (Milos), this Paul Chua crook would have been able to continue to ride roughshod over Asian BB, untrammeled, unexposed and unpunished for his corrupt ways! And don't for a moment think that corruption in Asian BB has no bearing on the US. Ultimately, the rot will spread if this man achieves his ambition to be IFBB President.
Incidentally, go to Wikipedia and check out this Paul Chua guy. He's described as "an internationally reknowned bodybuilder"! LOL,what a fake and a fraud! This guy has a belly to rival the Titanic and has never touched a dumbbell in his life! In fact, the only exercise that he performs with any regularity, is with his right arm - his "Official Drinking Arm". His left arm? That's his" Reserve Drinking Arm"!
-
After being in the sport for a very long time the passion for bodybuilding goes away and the focus goes on making money. This is what has happened to Chua. And from the ways things has gone in the past decades he made pretty good money and still continuing to do so.
-
Milos, i was just stating what is known to everyone.
you have beef with ifbb, but thats ok, since they not exactly what you would call honest organization with integrity.
you called mustafa brother on numerous occasions and then you had personal problems and you decided to take it to internet rather than solve your problem between "brothers" and went out of your way to humliliate mustafa, which he probably deserved, but still.
gustavo looked great when he worked with you first time and then it was downhill and friendship and your working relationship fizzled.
luke looked great in the beginning but same thing, he went downhill.
dennis james looked his best when placed 4th at the O and that was when he worked with chad, not you.
silvio, well we all saw what happened and how the truth came out that you are a control freak who acts more like a dictator rather than friend.
it is a simple observation. thats all. not a personal attack.
I have no problem answering ALL your comments...
I don't have "beef" with the IFBB...I LOVE IFBB and fight for my Federations integrity - which is highly affected by this unethical guy who is corrupted as they come.
I have NO DOUBTS it is just matter of time when EVERYTHING WILL SURFACE and THAN I would be last man standing - laughing or having some fat lady sing....
I accepted suspension as I respect and love too much some people in the IFBB organization who told me to back off at this time...so I did.
I also fight for the athletes, IFBB athletes, professionals from around the world...and especially I was ready to stick my neck so far out for all of my Asian comrades and got ZERO support from them...so I figured it is NOT the time to fight for them as they are not ready to stand behind me...
As far as my athletes:
MUSTAFA is someone I absolutely loved like a brother...spent 2 nights in two different hospitals saving his life (and I literally speaking did just that - as I stopped paramedics injecting him with lethal potassium injection....when he was hyperkalemic...and they thought he was hypokalemic instead)...
I invited Mustafa to my home, my mother's home in Yugoslavia, my gym for several weeks, prepared him and SPONSORED HIM for his shows (several shows - where I paid for all expenses as he couldn't afford it...Neither could I but being a friend and fan of his physique I wanted to help as much as I could...)
When he ABUSED my friendship and tricked me into borrowing A LOT of money which he had no intention to pay back (as proved to be a case) and someone saw our heated discussion - and posted on the board - I simply told the truth...TO WARN OTHERS about Mustafa...as (what I learned in the mean time) he did THE SAME THING TO SEVERAL OTHER PEOPLE....
GUSTAVO is another athlete welcomed in my family...and I don't need to say ANYTHING other than he choose to stop working with me (stating in magazine how I didn't care for my athletes...as now he is working with someone who does...)...
Well, my fault was: FRIDAY - day before the 2006 Mr. Olympia (after helping him get 3rd twice in a row - task who was super hard to accomplish and nobody BUT ME saw coming at 2004 and 2005 Mr. Olympia...as previously Gustavo placed 24th out of 25 guys competing in only Olympia he qualified for - 2002) - I was few minutes late to meet him at the expo (where we were suppose to meet - as he was finishing working and I suppose to start working)...
He left the expo - expecting me to come back to hotel and see him - leaving the Weider Booth (like I did many times before...but this time was impossible).
He missed his peak on Friday..by a small margin and Saturday he was perfect...but it was too late...
All in all I do think Gustavo highly benefited from our working relationship - and I am happy with his success and for his family...
LUKE is my dear friend who has a little health issue people don't realize and I am not going to talk about it out of respect to him...
I love him as my brother...probably will be his best man in the wedding and hopefully we'll see him compete again - better than ever.
Luke is 100% focused and loves the sport...He is super hard working and motivated athlete and as such - he will make progress in many years to come...
Dennis James is my dear friend who has so much potential I saw him winning the Olympia far back in 2001...I must say that in his case due to few of the misses in preparation we started compromising and did things half way...and many times he came to the show LESS than 100%...
What happened in Colorado was absolute disaster and I am responsible for it.
DJ is the only guy who could outmuscle even the biggest "muscle freaks" and I took the risk of loading him up to his absolute biggest - believing that he would shock the world and catapult himself as true contender for the Olympia title...
As he was spilled over - judges penalized him and placed out of top 5...which was truly disastrous result for him...
What many fail to realize - getting in CONDITION is complex process and certainly at this level every little bit COUNTS...
IF dryness is the only aspect we should be worry about - as I said on the radio - simply deplete into the show (like many amateurs do) and you'll be dry...as a bone...
But, when you start manipulating other aspects of conditioning - things could go somewhat wrong...and in DJ's case - I witnessed many times last minute changes I would have not expected...several times...
Now, as far as Silvio - like Mustafa...I tried my best to HELP HIM in every possible way...and ended up as a "control freak"?
More like dictator than a friend...?
Truth comes out ALWAYS...so I will leave it at that for now...
Fact is however - he was expected to compete at the European tour 2006...but he never made it there (he was crying in the room as he was ready to step on stage but could not afford to be there)...List of competitors for Ironman and Arnold 2007 was published WITHOUT HIS NAME ON IT...and I contacted him to find out WHY...
He told me he never got ANYTHING from the IFBB so he couldn't even apply for Arnold...etc...
In short few weeks with me in Fullerton - he shocked many people looking spectacular in Ironman and Sacramento...getting TWO endorsement contracts, Arnold's invitation and Olympia's invitation...
Like I said - I will leave it at that...
Anyway...as you can see I am always available to discuss ANY issues - including mine...
I openly speak about EVERY matter that concerns me...and I hope everyone realizes that I am passionate about the sport and LOVE the athletes...and fight for them.
I also love the IFBB and fight for the Federation as well.
-
Milos it seems you always have some kind of excuse for whatever happens to you. You always the victim and everyone is just picking on you and you such a great person, friend, trainer. Only for some reason IFBB has a problem with you, athletes that you call brothers have problem with you and majority of athletes you work with somehow end up looking worse than before they started working with you.
this is very true. BUT milos is also correct about some things.
like paul chiuauaua and IFBB judging (lack of comparisons etc)
-
The reason, Milos, why you got ZERO support from Asian bodybuilding, the self same people that you were trying to help, is due to FEAR!
Let me draw an analogy. A murder is committed. The police comes around and asks for witnesses. Nobody steps forward. No one has seen anything!
It's the same scene here, except that the police, the IFBB in this instance, arrests the complainant (yourself, Milos) and the judiciary (the IFBB Pro League DC) sentences the complainant, you Milos, to a year's jail (suspension) for lodging a complaint without witnesses. LOL!
You see this guy, Paul Chua is so ruthless that everyone in Asian bodybuilding knows the score! Cross his path and your career is over. The IFBB is equally complicit in his crimes, as they choose to look the other way, when Paul Chua commits his crimes....very much like the corrupt local Police Department or Sherriff!!!
-
Hmmm. John Calascione starting this thread just when questions about Paul Chua and his coterie of crooked judges in Asia are being exposed. Sounds like a plant, by the IFBB and the IFBB spin doctors hard at work.
If that's the case, it's not necessary Santonja! Nobody has ever questioned the honesty of IFBB judging panels...only your crooked brethen in Asia (Paul Chua).
-
The reason, Milos, why you got ZERO support from Asian bodybuilding, the self same people that you were trying to help, is due to FEAR!
Let me draw an analogy. A murder is committed. The police comes around and asks for witnesses. Nobody steps forward. No one has seen anything!
It's the same scene here, except that the police, the IFBB in this instance, arrests the complainant (yourself, Milos) and the judiciary (the IFBB Pro League DC) sentences the complainant, you Milos, to a year's jail (suspension) for lodging a complaint without witnesses. LOL!
You see this guy, Paul Chua is so ruthless that everyone in Asian bodybuilding knows the score! Cross his path and your career is over. The IFBB is equally complicit in his crimes, as they choose to look the other way, when Paul Chua commits his crimes....very much like the corrupt local Police Department or Sherriff!!!
Yes Frank I know and I don't blame anyone...
Asian bodybuilders are AFRAID of Paul Chua's ability to somehow convince IFBB office into all these suspensions...but AS YOU KNOW - nobody can hide from the TRUTH...which sooner or later finds the way to surface...
I am simply waiting for that to happen...and I have a good feeling it is just matter of days now...
-
seem everyone is busy with the World Championship. :'(
-
Yes Frank I know and I don't blame anyone...
Asian bodybuilders are AFRAID of Paul Chua's ability to somehow convince IFBB office into all these suspensions...but AS YOU KNOW - nobody can hide from the TRUTH...which sooner or later finds the way to surface...
I am simply waiting for that to happen...and I have a good feeling it is just matter of days now...
Once you get Paul Chua’s good wishes you loose a lot. You will never place well or get good recommendation and slowly you will be forced to leave the federation or be banned for life thus loosing the government funds for the prep; which in some countries reaches US$2500 per month excluding the awards after the show if they place well; countries like Qatar and Bahrain. US$30000 a year!! Not bad for an uneducated or sometimes even illiterate person. What the people in the federation get is a lot of money from the government and their respective Olympic committees.
However it all ends up in the mutual interest department where each federation gives a way money to make more money; meaning they allocate a budget where they spend 30-40% of it on the athletes and traveling expenses and some of it to sanction Paul Chua –not IFBB- and the rest in their personal accounts. The result is medals and more money.
Paul L.
-
I really hate to post this, but considering that Paul Chua is now displaying serious delusions, I think the BBing world should know. He actually thinks that he's a Thai. He has 3 personalities: Paul Chua, Charnwit and Poonsuk Viryasiri!
Do read this post from the bottom up to fully understand how delusional he has become.
"Dear Paul,
Why do you insist on using the "Poonsuk Viryasiri" pseudonym? Was that the name given to you by the Thais when you checked into that Thai monastery following the close call to your business and reputation?
And your email address "veryhappypv". Corny but you might not be very happy to learn this.
Rumours are flying that your mistress Christina is having orgies in your absence! She goes into Planet Hollywood to pick up young men on a regular basis, (obviously when you are not around) and has gained a reputation as a generous "queen". Her weakness? She likes to have her clxts licked! Every young stud there has fuxked her!!
Hah, Paul - you're not satisfying her? It must be your diabetes. You inflate your stomach with all your heavy drinking and greedy indulgences. Stop that. The diabetes makes you impotent and even your mistress is finding other outlets! Soon Audrey would be following suit, you cuckold impotent bastxrd! Maybe that's the Goddess of Mercy turning her back on you for all your corrupt ways.
Sincerely,
Frankie Dee
Poonsuk Viryasiri <veryhappypv@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Law, ( or should I address you as CJ ? )
I have noticed that you are again trying to discredit Datuk Paul Chua with your pathetic website,
don't you really think you have gone far enough, and made sufficent a fool of yourself ?
You obveiously have some personal vendetta in this matter, and are over stepping the mark.
I e.mailed you on July 27th ( see below ) wonder why you failed to answer ?
By the way, I understand that you have extended your jewelery outlet to Cambodia,
I trust you are working within the stipulated regulations ?
You mention on your web that you have, and did attach a letter from Thailand, but failed to attach it.
Would be interesting to see what it has to say, if in fact it exists !!!!
Charnwit.
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Poonsuk Viryasiri <veryhappypv@yahoo.com>
To: Frank D. Law <frankdlaw@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:53:12 PM
Subject: Re: The rape of Asian Bodybuilding
Dear C J.
I e.mailed you yesterday, see below, but no reply ? did you ever receive my letter ?
What happened, " cat get your tongue ? "
My understanding is that your website would be on line this week, has this happened yet ?
if so, please do let me know, as I really would like to view it.
I was able to obtain a picture from one of the competitors taken at the National games in Chiengmai in 2002, and there is a splended picture you all dressed up in your Mao outfit, indeed smart.
I shall look forward to your further news.
Regards.
Charnwit.
Dear Mr, Law,
Or should I address you as C J ?
I have read your latest outburst against Paul Chua, and the points you have raised are
most interesting.
I find your insinuations:
a high maintainenece mistress that you're keeping in HK or Thailand, knowing that you have a predilection for these things?
to be too funny, also your reference to Sadam and the classic remark :
" You will want to be taken away kicking and screaming in handcuffs! "
that would indeed be a sight !!
I think I saw you in Chiengmai in 2002 when you attended the National bodybuilding games
and presented a token of your esteem to one of the Thai bodybuilders ?
By the way, are you still in the jewellery business ?
Regards.
Charnwit.
"Frank D. Law" <frankdlaw@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Paul,
Seriously Paul, you've got to try much much harder! Of course I've heard your claim of helping bodybuilders many times, and regretably believed you then.
Initially, I had great admiration for you. I was one of those who celebrated when you were appointed IFBB Vice President for Asia, for I sincerely thought that it would be good for Asia....a feather in Asia's cap, so to speak!
Unfortunately, that's when the complaints poured in. Initially, I refused to countenance them, believing that it was just sour grapes. But the complaints continued to pour in, and I began to think, perhaps, just perhaps there could be no smoke without fire.
I thought that in fairness to you, I should withold judgement until I see for myself. And so I began to observe your operations more closely. What I saw dismayed me. The doubts began to creep in.
It took me sometime to figure out your modus operandi, but eventually I did. Here's your M.O:
You observed that bodybuilding in Asia is basically an amateur sport. However, you saw that Asian governments lavish Hundreds of thousands of dollars (sometimes even land and houses) on gold medals attained in the SEA Games and the Asian Games by athletes (ostensibly to build national prestige - in much the same way as the Eastern Bloc countries were wont to do, in days past).
You then worked out the clever strategy to allow bodybuilders to win true hard-core Bodybuilding Titles such as Mr. ASEAN and Mr. Asia. These titles, you noticed do not attract much largese from governments. Mr. Universe titles, you can hardly manipulate - so you leave those basically alone. But the Asian Games and the South East Asian Games, that's a different thing altogether - you can hear the cash register in your head ringing overtime! That explains why athletes can win the Mr. Asia and Mr. Universe mutiple times and then invariably lose when it comes to the South East Asian Games and the Asian Games.
You appoint the judges and the Judges Secretary. The results were totally under your control. Unlike Ben Weider, who scrupulously avoids attendance at the prejudging of competitions, you and your "Judges Secretary" in every SEA Games and Asian Games BB competition, hover over the computer screen that nobody else has access to, not even the judges! Anyone who comes close, including ABBF officials are shooed off! Again only you and your lackey are present for the weigh-in and drug test results go to you and you alone!
Interestingly you never had the need to do all that at the Mr. ASEAN and Mr. Asia, and interestingly, in the latter competitions the results are always kosher. I remember distinctly one complainant telling me how his athlete (who had been cheated) had related to him tearfully, what Ben Weider had told him as Mr. Weider handed him his Bronze Medal at a SEA Games:"Mr.......I know...I know everything... be patient!"
I've thought long and hard and tried to go inside your head to understand why you do these things. Is it cash flow problems from your business.? Was it a high maintainenece mistress that you're keeping in HK or Thailand, knowing that you have a predilection for these things? I came to the sad conclusion that it was just pure GREED! The power of your office enabled you do do all that without the risk of being caught.
When I think of the bodybuilding careers and lives you've destroyed Paul, you have exhausted all the compassion merit points that I had for you, and perhaps even the Goddess of Mercy herself would've arrived at the same conclusion. I certainly hope for your sake, she hasn't. Still I did nothing, vacillating and wondering whether I should stand up and be counted.
The last straw was Sarcev's suspension! Here was a man who dared to do what none of us in Asia had ever dared to do. That was a wrong move on your part, Paul. That aroused extreme indignation from a lot of us in Asia, people who did not know Sarcev from Adam, but who finally decided to stand up and be counted. You think this is a vendetta, a one man crusade? Think again. You'd be shocked at what you've aroused!
The sport is bigger than you. Hardworking athletes should go into every competition in Asia knowing that every competition is run cleanly. But if my reading of your M.O is wrong, say it isn't so, Paul...Say it isn't so! I badly want to believe that!
I would suggest that you do the decent thing and step down. The same offer was made to Sadam. He didn't take it up and see what befell him! But knowing you Paul, you wouldn't! You will want to be taken away kicking and screaming in handcuffs!
Regards,
Frank D.
__________________
__________________
Justice, Fairplay and Truth
-
My suspension is almost over... ;)
-
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/hkedition/2010-10/30/content_11479118.htm
-
Good post Chris!
-
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/hkedition/2010-10/30/content_11479118.htm
So dick face, how does this relate to Milos Sarcev?
-
go back to first page :-)
milos was banned from the ifbb because he told the truth....
the court found out the truth (easy with a calendar)...and sent the asian ifbb officials and that atlete to prison ...maybe asians have more honor :-)
it is old now, but milos ban was on every page, it was big on the ifbb website, but i never did read an excuse of the ifbb, even as the truth is now proven from the court