IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev

[onlyme]

You are correct, sir...

As he was under suspension, he did not (was not able to) re-join the IFBB this past year.

okay

haha, MELTDOWN.  Chick owns your mind, fatboy

hahaha like you matter

[chester_bbb]

...and it is up...on the 15th.

He's not an active member of the IFBB, and will have to apply for a card/ reinstatement.

Using your own analogy...i would be like someone in jail being released after a year, and automatically returning to their old job...

Chick, how did Victor Martinez get his job back after being released from jail.

[BEAST 8692]

Chick, how did Victor Martinez get his job back after being released from jail.

come on chester? as if measley prison time could possibly be as bad as exposing corrupt place fixing at shows.

[HowieW]

You are correct, sir...

As he was under suspension, he did not (was not able to) re-join the IFBB this past year.

Hmmm, what I am curious about is why so few in/around this sport don't use mainstream legal venues to file suit . I know that neither of us are lawyers, but since this decision may affect the living Milos can make
Why not file a suit in a civil court? Now that he has all but exhausted dealing with the IFBB directly, why not pursure mainstream legal remedies?

I can tell ya one thing if I was an IFBB pro , I sure as hell would file suit on the basis that the IFBB has failed to enforce its' own drug testing rules! There is already precedent for this in a circuit court in the NJ/NY area about boxing 10 years ago.The judge ruled that pro boxing was neglegent by not drug testing for a championship fight as their rules clearly stated. He used some statute about the "public trust" as basis for his ruling. Can you imagine the IFBB trying to explain their present "policy" to a NON bodybuilder district court judge????yikes!

Look Bob (Chic) , I know the drug issue is pretty awkward for you to discuss and I apologize to put you on the spot here. I fully understand why you would NOT want to respond to this post. However, please consider that by keeping this issue "swept under the rug" it speaks volumes for how disfunctional and out of hand the drug issue has gotten

[Chick]

Chick, how did Victor Martinez get his job back after being released from jail.

If the "job" you're talking about was getting back in the IFBB....he applied for a card, like everyone else does.

[BEAST 8692]

Hmmm, what I am curious about is why so few in/around this sport don't use mainstream legal venues to file suit . I know that neither of us are lawyers, but since this decision may affect the living Milos can make
Why not file a suit in a civil court? Now that he has all but exhausted dealing with the IFBB directly, why not pursure mainstream legal remedies?

I can tell ya one thing if I was an IFBB pro , I sure as hell would file suit on the basis that the IFBB has failed to enforce its' own drug testing rules! There is already precedent for this in a circuit court in the NJ/NY area about boxing 10 years ago.The judge ruled that pro boxing was neglegent by not drug testing for a championship fight as their rules clearly stated. He used some statute about the "public trust" as basis for his ruling. Can you imagine the IFBB trying to explain their present "policy" to a NON bodybuilder district court judge????yikes!

Look Bob (Chic) , I know the drug issue is pretty awkward for you to discuss and I apologize to put you on the spot here. I fully understand why you would NOT want to respond to this post. However, please consider that by keeping this issue "swept under the rug" it speaks volumes for how disfunctional and out of hand the drug issue has gotten

very good point. what a can of worms that would open.

i feel sorry for chick sometimes (only sometimes). he cops the full brunt of any distaste for the ifbb and, like a loyal dog, always defends their position, but milos had to be censored for 2 main reasons:

1. what precedent does it set when an athlete/manager/fan can verbally chastise and make serious public allegations against a promoter at the actual event and get away with it?

2. the allegations were of such a serious nature that if they didn't punish him, the accused official would have rightly felt betrayed by the ifbb. it has to be stressed that milos' allegations were slanderous and defamatory. as pointed out, milos had plenty of time to present the evidence and all the while the ifbb would have been under intense pressure re the delicacy of the situation.

[HowieW]

very good point. what a can of worms that would open.

i feel sorry for chick sometimes (only sometimes). he cops the full brunt of any distaste for the ifbb and, like a loyal dog, always defends their position, but milos had to be censored for 2 main reasons:

1. what precedent does it set when an athlete/manager/fan can verbally chastise and make serious public allegations against a promoter at the actual event and get away with it?

2. the allegations were of such a serious nature that if they didn't punish him, the accused official would have rightly felt betrayed by the ifbb. it has to be stressed that milos' allegations were slanderous and defamatory. as pointed out, milos had plenty of time to present the evidence and all the while the ifbb would have been under intense pressure re the delicacy of the situation.

Great pts here. Milos may have gitten wind of some "unsavory" attempt to bribe a judge??? He "may" have spoken up LOUDLY about this and felt justified. However, without substantial proof , his contention remains heresay.
Who knows that the reality is and that is the big issue. One thing is clear and that some crap went down and someone somewhere is trying to cover it up.

I know what you man about Bob Chic being in a tough spot at times.
I was lucky enough to be able to speak with him for a good while at the last Col pro. The drug issue is something he just doesn't want to discuss in length for good reason . His main concern and belief is that a "natural /drug free" IFBB pro div would not draw much of a crowd or supplement sponsers.
Ya know, he may be right on that. I am not sure I agree that it would kill the pro sport, but, I can see the lgic in that concern. Bob is dealing with practical solutions to help the sports' pros in the present situation as it actually exists.

I for one think we could get a whole new group as fans if the sport tried to curb the extreme drug use.

[onlyme]

Isn't heresay when someone else says they heard it from someone else.  If Milos actually heard what he heard it isn't heresay.  It basically his word against the IFBB.  Now its up to the judges to see who is more credible and is telling the truth.  I am not sure he needs any hard evidence.  It will make it allot easier with evidence and proof.  But, if you witness someone getting murdered and go tell the police you saw this person kill someone but don't have any pictures or evidence just the fact that you saw him do it.  The police will arrest the guy.  The judge would have to determine if Milos is making it up and why would he make it up and what has he got to gain from doing it.  milos puts himself up for slander, and contempt if he is found to be lying.  So why would he lie.  And the IFBB has 40 years of pulling shit and having a less than stellar approach to conducting business.  The last place the IFBB would ever want to be is inside a courtroom.

[BEAST 8692]

Great pts here. Milos may have gitten wind of some "unsavory" attempt to bribe a judge??? He "may" have spoken up LOUDLY about this and felt justified. However, without substantial proof , his contention remains heresay.
Who knows that the reality is and that is the big issue. One thing is clear and that some crap went down and someone somewhere is trying to cover it up.

I know what you man about Bob Chic being in a tough spot at times.
I was lucky enough to be able to speak with him for a good while at the last Col pro. The drug issue is something he just doesn't want to discuss in length for good reason . His main concern and belief is that a "natural /drug free" IFBB pro div would not draw much of a crowd or supplement sponsers.
Ya know, he may be right on that. I am not sure I agree that it would kill the pro sport, but, I can see the lgic in that concern. Bob is dealing with practical solutions to help the sports' pros in the present situation as it actually exists.

I for one think we could get a whole new group as fans if the sport tried to curb the extreme drug use.

i agree with your opinion about bob. i argue the point for the sake of clarity but i do recognise that the man is very good for pro bbing. he is steady as a ship when all the others are making like the titanic and he is dead right re the drug situation.

vince mcmahon (wwf) made a serious attempt to clean up bbing once and that was it's demise on that front. in one contest sponsorship and viability was gone and so was wbf. talk about gone in 60 seconds, wbf was gone in 30 after that.

put it this way, whether people want to acknowledge it or not, if the ifbb was to honestly clean house it would be the only sport honestly doing it. when ex super star boxer, roy jones, tested +ve for testosterone (aswell as his opponent, richard hall) for a fight he said that he may have inadvertently taken it via a supplement, namely 'ripped fuel'. no shit, he actually made that statement, and this is a millionaire with a legal team! anyway, apparently someone with a brain fell over him and told him that ripped fuel contained an active ingredient of ephedrine which is not a hormone. so what did he do? he just changed his statement to inadvertently taking it via a nasal decongestant. now, i'm thinking to myself at the time, "wtf, oh you mean those fucking cortiso-steroid things in sinus meds. you've got to be kidding me." but you know what? joe public didn't give a rat's arse. it wasn't even a blip on the roy jones hype radar. in fact he made 10 times the money the next time he took gear for a fight, which was when he gained 25lbs of muscle to fight hw champ, john ruiz.

now, imagine if that was, sayyy, ronnie coleman. can you imagine the barbeque joe public would have with that one? can you say ronnie coleman and the ifbb on a spit (i'm seeing the ifbb losing coleman quicker than mcmahon did with the wbf though)? how do you think that nasal decongestant theory would fly? hmmm...

drugs are hear and they're here to stay, like it or not. fitness chicks use them ffs, do you really think bbers are going to stop using them, regardless of pr exercise? do you realize what a huge expense in time, money and resources it would be to attempt to honestly clean up the sport? do you really think the ifbb has those things? do you know what they'll be left with when the sponsors go? because you know they'll be gone in 10 seconds, right?

pro sports = drugs

pro bbing = scapegoat for pro sports

[timfogarty]

vince mcmahon (wwf) made a serious attempt to clean up bbing once and that was it's demise on that front.

No, he didn't.  He tried to turn it into theater, just like pro wrestling, with costumes and plots and good guys and bad guys.  It didn't work because fans didn't want to see a play.   They didnt' want to see theatrics.  It didn't work because at the end of the play, the guy with the best physique that day still needed to win, which didn't always fit the narrative.

[BEAST 8692]

No, he didn't.  He tried to turn it into theater, just like pro wrestling, with costumes and plots and good guys and bad guys.  It didn't work because fans didn't want to see a play.   They didnt' want to see theatrics.  It didn't work because at the end of the play, the guy with the best physique that day still needed to win, which didn't always fit the narrative.

are you saying he didn't try to clean up the sport or that wasn't the reason for it's demise?

i would answer to the contrary on both points.

he did make a deliberate effort, mainly because he was under intense political pressure because of his dealings (pardon pun) with his wwf athletes.

when it came time for the contest, the makeup and role playing might have worked if most of the competitors didn't look like garbage.

no it didn't fit the narrative. when does mcmahon's shit fit the narrative? but there was still a following up until that point and vince could have worked with the hit if he had a viable enterprise.

with the wrestlers it didn't matter so much when they came in fat because they could still pretend to beat seven shades of shit out of each other and the public would have been happy.

when the bbers all came in fat his only selling point was gone. they were basically too one dimensional and, by doing the stupid acts, he was trying to add another dimension. of course, when the sponsors saw it they took their bats and balls back to the ifbb and voila, stick a fork in the wbf.

[timfogarty]

the sponsors left because the fans left.  the fans left because they weren't interested in theater. 

"fit the narrative" means that there is a plot arc over many contests that leads to a conclusion at the main event.  works great in pro wrestling, not so great in pro bodybuilding.

your original statement was that McMahan tried to clean up bodybuilding.  that was not his goal, nor his selling point at the time.  (Got 11 of the 20 the WBF Bodybuilding Lifestyles magazine right here.  Don't see anything about drug free.)  His goal was to make money by adding theatrics to the contests, which failed miserably because bodybuilding fans did not want to see theatrics.  They did not want good guys and bad guys and plot arcs.

[BEAST 8692]

the sponsors left because the fans left.  the fans left because they weren't interested in theater. 

"fit the narrative" means that there is a plot arc over many contests that leads to a conclusion at the main event.  works great in pro wrestling, not so great in pro bodybuilding.

your original statement was that McMahan tried to clean up bodybuilding.  that was not his goal, nor his selling point at the time.  (Got 11 of the 20 the WBF Bodybuilding Lifestyles magazine right here.  Don't see anything about drug free.)  His goal was to make money by adding theatrics to the contests, which failed miserably because bodybuilding fans did not want to see theatrics.  They did not want good guys and bad guys and plot arcs.

there were 2 contests.

the first one was comprised of the bodies displayed in your post. the second contest, most of those bodies looked nothing like those on the cover of that mag. the acting/ script/plot/narrative was not the problem, it was the bodies.

mike quinn, for example, came in with aboout 20% body fat and smaller.

vince saw the writing on the wall and he dumped the whole thing.

[HowieW]

i agree with your opinion about bob. i argue the point for the sake of clarity but i do recognise that the man is very good for pro bbing. he is steady as a ship when all the others are making like the titanic and he is dead right re the drug situation.

vince mcmahon (wwf) made a serious attempt to clean up bbing once and that was it's demise on that front. in one contest sponsorship and viability was gone and so was wbf. talk about gone in 60 seconds, wbf was gone in 30 after that.

put it this way, whether people want to acknowledge it or not, if the ifbb was to honestly clean house it would be the only sport honestly doing it. when ex super star boxer, roy jones, tested +ve for testosterone (aswell as his opponent, richard hall) for a fight he said that he may have inadvertently taken it via a supplement, namely 'ripped fuel'. no shit, he actually made that statement, and this is a millionaire with a legal team! anyway, apparently someone with a brain fell over him and told him that ripped fuel contained an active ingredient of ephedrine which is not a hormone. so what did he do? he just changed his statement to inadvertently taking it via a nasal decongestant. now, i'm thinking to myself at the time, "wtf, oh you mean those fucking cortiso-steroid things in sinus meds. you've got to be kidding me." but you know what? joe public didn't give a rat's arse. it wasn't even a blip on the roy jones hype radar. in fact he made 10 times the money the next time he took gear for a fight, which was when he gained 25lbs of muscle to fight hw champ, john ruiz.

now, imagine if that was, sayyy, ronnie coleman. can you imagine the barbeque joe public would have with that one? can you say ronnie coleman and the ifbb on a spit (i'm seeing the ifbb losing coleman quicker than mcmahon did with the wbf though)? how do you think that nasal decongestant theory would fly? hmmm...

drugs are hear and they're here to stay, like it or not. fitness chicks use them ffs, do you really think bbers are going to stop using them, regardless of pr exercise? do you realize what a huge expense in time, money and resources it would be to attempt to honestly clean up the sport? do you really think the ifbb has those things? do you know what they'll be left with when the sponsors go? because you know they'll be gone in 10 seconds, right?

pro sports = drugs

pro bbing = scapegoat for pro sports

GREAT post and really sums up the actual reality with drugs in sports and pro bodybuilding, etc.
I agree and in all honesty, I really don't care if the pros use drugs as long as they don't go such extremes they fall over and go to the hospital or get caught dealing, etc.
In the end I just want to see a good show.
Bob Chic is a steady ship in the often rough seas of pro BB.
Howard

[chaos]

I think Milos origionally had someone(Wong Hoeng?) that could have been the nail in the coffin, however shortly after Milos leveled these accusations, he(Wong Hoeng) got cold feet and apologized to Paul Chua. Milos has more details on his site.

[PORKY]

I think Milos origionally had someone(Wong Hoeng?) that could have been the nail in the coffin, however shortly after Milos leveled these accusations, he(Wong Hoeng) got cold feet and apologized to Paul Chua. Milos has more details on his site.

Heres my recollection of this issue regarding Wong Hong...i heard it was because Wong had posted something in milos's forum and news got back to Paul Chua about the statement.Worse timing too since Wong had to renew his pro card in order to do the Oz pro show and if he didnt sign that piece of paper he wouldnt have gotten his pro card renewed...all this happened right before the Oz pro show after he had done his contest prep.

[Vince B]

To reply to Howie's suggestion that legal action be taken against the IFBB. Milos knows how much it costs without going to court. He is unlikely to go anywhere near a lawyer because that avenue is risky and way too expensive for civil matters. The IFBB knows this and just does what it pleases. Besides, anyone taking the IFBB to court might as well kiss participating in the IFBB again goodbye.

[HowieW]

To reply to Howie's suggestion that legal action be taken against the IFBB. Milos knows how much it costs without going to court. He is unlikely to go anywhere near a lawyer because that avenue is risky and way too expensive for civil matters. The IFBB knows this and just does what it pleases. Besides, anyone taking the IFBB to court might as well kiss participating in the IFBB again goodbye.

Interesting ideas here and may be some truth???
I know from firsthand experience that drug testing a big contest that has always been a NON tested can result in the end of it. Case in pt the AAU Mr America. I was an official and judge for many years in AAU physique. We started to test at the USA ith no problems, but after the testing at the MR A in 1995, all hell broke loose.
In brief, after 2 years (95-96) of law suits and endless hassles the show ended when Disney sports dropped physique from its' lineup of AAU sports.

The problem as I see it is twofold:
1. The vast majority of hardcore bodybuilders and those who are active as everything from fans to judges PREFER a drugged bodybuilder, especially at the pro level. For whatever reason(s) most hardcore fans and bodybuilders want a more massive, freaky, ripped look.

2. The "natural" tag = lousy, small physiques in many fans/competitors minds.

The reality is NOT that drastic in my opinion, but too many have come to firmly believe that an impressive physique is impossible without drugs ( and extreme drug use at that). In my humble opinion, many of the best guys : Cutler, Ronnie , Dexter, Darrem, etc would still look damn impressive without drugs.
Kai Green won a few shows in the WNBF and they do very stringent drug testing.
Granted it was not as big/thick as he is now, but he still looked incredible and his posing was incredible.

In the end Bob Chic is doing the best he can to push some practical ideas that will work with the situation ,as it is.
He has a good pt as we are seeing a bigger line up of IFBB pro events.
Howard

Ya know, I think I am just going to drop the drug issue for good and stop posting about it. Most don't want to hear about it and prefer a drug enhanced sport. Overall, I love bodybuilding and just want to attend a great event.

[Chick]

It is what it is, Howard...

The fans dictate what they like and what they support..and judging by the underwhelming response to Natural shows, athletes, and natural mags...It looks like the people have spoken.


Look at the response to a smaller line-up in the IFBB....."weak line up...third tier show...shit show- no big names.." etc...........forget about anyone interested in seing naturals battle it out, people want to see bigger, better, freakier, faster, etc...not just in BB, but all sports.

[timfogarty]

Look at the response to a smaller line-up in the IFBB....."weak line up...third tier show...shit show- no big names.." etc...........forget about anyone interested in seing naturals battle it out, people want to see bigger, better, freakier, faster, etc...not just in BB, but all sports.

are you saying that if Cutler or Coleman showed up in Denver or LA or NYC, those shows would suddenly sell out?  Then why doesn't the IFBB require everyone to requalify for the Olympia every year?  or just otherwise encourage top tier bodybuilders to enter these shows?

[Chick]

are you saying that if Cutler or Coleman showed up in Denver or LA or NYC, those shows would suddenly sell out?  Then why doesn't the IFBB require everyone to requalify for the Olympia every year?  or just otherwise encourage top tier bodybuilders to enter these shows?

Yes...bigger line-ups mean bigger gate, as evidenced by the Olympia and the Arnold.....Believe me...If it were my call...Only 1 guy would get a pass, and thats Mr. Olympia...other than that...I would make everybody requalify.

[bigdumbbell]

Yes...bigger line-ups mean bigger gate, as evidenced by the Olympia and the Arnold.....Believe me...If it were my call...Only 1 guy would get a pass, and thats Mr. Olympia...other than that...I would make everybody requalify.

that's the way to go...keep em all hungry and make them compete

[onlyme]

It is what it is, Howard...

The fans dictate what they like and what they support..and judging by the underwhelming response to Natural shows, athletes, and natural mags...It looks like the people have spoken.


Look at the response to a smaller line-up in the IFBB....."weak line up...third tier show...shit show- no big names.." etc...........forget about anyone interested in seing naturals battle it out, people want to see bigger, better, freakier, faster, etc...not just in BB, but all sports.

Well finally you admit the Colorado Pro was shitty.  I guess their is a first time for everything.

[HowieW]

It is what it is, Howard...

The fans dictate what they like and what they support..and judging by the underwhelming response to Natural shows, athletes, and natural mags...It looks like the people have spoken.


Look at the response to a smaller line-up in the IFBB....."weak line up...third tier show...shit show- no big names.." etc...........forget about anyone interested in seing naturals battle it out, people want to see bigger, better, freakier, faster, etc...not just in BB, but all sports.

In keeping with my new theme of not beating the "drug issue dead horse ", all I am going to say is thanks for the response and I agree with the reality on this issue.

I really like your idea of having every pro but Mr O REqualify for the O each yr.
Howard

[Vince B]

It is what it is, Howard...

The fans dictate what they like and what they support..and judging by the underwhelming response to Natural shows, athletes, and natural mags...It looks like the people have spoken.
 

A sheriff you can be, Bob, but never will you be a philosopher. Your post is called rationalization. Imagine saying that the fans dictate what happens in the Olympic Games! The hardcore fans might support the top shows but what has happened is those shows cost a lot of money to see. If they bring a star down to Australia the tickets for those contests is quite high and that puts off a lot of people.

There has been an explosion in the number of people training in gyms. We have had a chain of gyms open in Australia and these are big, well equipped clubs. Various RSL and social clubs are installing gyms as are swimming pools. There should be a huge potential fan base for bodybuilding contests.

If we take the Colorado contest as an example then look at how many contestants were in the fitness and figure categories. Apparently a lot of people left after the gals section ended.

The Olympia and Arnold Classic have grown but most of the other shows have dwindled. Women's bodybuilding went broke and now needs to be included in the Mr shows or there will be no Ms Olympia.

People have pointed out what is wrong with the Irongame but those in control can't do much to change anything. The IFBB has usually followed and seldom led much in bodybuilding. Oh, their one big innovation was creating the Athletes Rep position! The bottom line is the IFBB won't do drug testing because DeMilia would pick up all the users.

Nothing short of a complete replacement of those running this sport will deliver more fans and save this sport.