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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Al Doggity on August 03, 2007, 10:47:00 AM
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Not really a defense of the race card, just an interesting observation about how people's opinions can change.
I love dogs and have been pretty disgusted by what I've read about this Michael Vick case. I haven't posted in a lot of threads about Vick because most of them aren't really about what Vick did, they're mostly just bitch sessions about "the race card".
I attempted to do a search of all of the Michael Vick threads that have been started here in the last few weeks. In my search, a few older threads about animal abuse popped up. I noticed that a poster named Camel Jockey,who posts in a lot of the Vick threads, posted in the older threads, too. Only his POV seemed to do a complete 180 in the last few months.
Here are some of his more recent posts in regards to Vick:
What a pos.. Absolute lowlife.
Keep calling all his sponsors!
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=159853.0
He's a fucking hoodlum tailback that throws interceptions.
I hope they chuck his ass in prison...
Some of the losing dogs were murdered in his backyard.. Had their skulls smashed and their bodies burned. Jesus, even China treats their dogs better.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=148092.75
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But here are some older posts he made in regards to animal abuse.
If you care so much about animals then only worry about the endangered ones, and not fucking cats and dogs.. ::)
While animal cruelty is wrong and stupid, you cannot start treating it as a serious issue.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=113514.25
The guy should get fined atleast, not imprisonment. This was not a person and I don't give a shit how much the those guys loved that animal.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=110524.0
Here's one where he bragged about abusing dogs in his past and admits to accidentally killing one.
Back in my country throwing stones at dogs was my favorite thing to do. I smacked this one little puppy with a bigass rock and it like died. :(
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=102353.msg1470921#msg1470921
This speaks for itself:
I should leave because I'm fucking sane and I don't believe in placing the same value in a dog's life as a humans? Go fuck yourself, stupidass hippie.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=113514.msg1649017#msg1649017
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Go play in the traffic.
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This stuff took like 10 minutes to find and I basically found it by accident. I can't go search and cross reference everyone whose posted in Vick threads to see if they've contradicted themselves in the past. I doubt that that would be the case anyway. I'm pretty sure most dog lovers (like me) would be pretty consistently disgusted by this type of behavior.
I'm not really calling him out, even though I used him as a specific example. I just think this is a great illustration of how this case is being viewed a certain way by people who hold certain preconceived notions. If Vick was someone else, I think the interest in this case, from Blacks and Whites alike, would be markedly different.
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Interesting... quite teh ownage
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in essence camel jockey is a jackass...yep...owned. camel..go jump in front of a moving rickshaw.
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This is not a race issue. This is a legal issue. Vick is an idiot and so is any other gutless person that abuses animals. If a women or child is abused sexually, mentally, or physically there is a small chance they can escape the situation. These dogs did not stand a chance and Vick and his "Possee of pussies" should get whatever is coming to them legally or publiclly.
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:o
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This is not a race issue. This is a legal issue. Vick is an idiot and so is any other gutless person that abuses animals. If a women or child is abused sexually, mentally, or physically there is a small chance they can escape the situation. These dogs did not stand a chance and Vick and his "Possee of pussies" should get whatever is coming to them legally or publiclly.
dude... did you even read the fucking thing ::)
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i don't put too much stock in anything that Camel Jockey is saying in his posts regarding Vick. For starters, Camel Jockey is exactly that; a camel jockey from some middle eastern country that has no idea how America functions or thinks. He's only an outsider looking in.
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This stuff took like 10 minutes to find and I basically found it by accident. I can't go search and cross reference everyone whose posted in Vick threads to see if they've contradicted themselves in the past. I doubt that that would be the case anyway. I'm pretty sure most dog lovers (like me) would be pretty consistently disgusted by this type of behavior.
I'm not really calling him out, even though I used him as a specific example. I just think this is a great illustration of how this case is being viewed a certain way by people who hold certain preconceived notions. If Vick was someone else, I think the interest in this case, from Blacks and Whites alike, would be markedly different.
Epic attempt to cover the fact that this "info" you posted has dominated your mind for the past several days. ::)
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Epic attempt to cover the fact that this "info" you posted has dominated your mind for the past several days. ::)
I was searching Vick threads in regards to a post that was posted TODAY on the general topics board. Why would I have waited to post it?
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It's called joking around.
I've never hurt an animal ever. What I said in the past was to piss off the the dog lovers on this forum. Vick ran a dog fighting ring and he killed animals in brutal fashion. What jokes I made in the past doesn't take away my right to be critical of him.
Anyways, Al Doggity is trying to turn this around. ::) Saying it'd be different if Vick weren't black. hahahaha sounds like the race card to me.
i don't put too much stock in anything that Camel Jockey is saying in his posts regarding Vick. For starters, Camel Jockey is exactly that; a camel jockey from some middle eastern country that has no idea how America functions or thinks. He's only an outsider looking in.
Who the hell are you? :-\ I'm not middle eastern and I know how this nation works.
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Best not to reveal anymore about myself as al doggity seems like a snoppy type..
He's also in the NY area.
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let me make this simple.........
dogs = good
negro's = not so good. ;D
LOL that was... speechless...hahahaha
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I was searching Vick threads in regards to a post that was posted TODAY on the general topics board. Why would I have waited to post it?
You did decide to dig up 1 year old posts that were a joke..
Of course I don't think dogs are as relevant as people, but I was jesting when I said I threw stones at them.
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You did decide to dig up 1 year old posts that were a joke..
Of course I don't think dogs are as relevant as people, but I was jesting when I said I threw stones at them.
lol it's a joke now?
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Inconsistencies on the part of Camel Jockey aside, it's disgusting that the usual suspects in media and politics are trying to make this a "race" thing.
Honestly, at first I was defending Vick, suggesting that until he's found guilty in a court, we owe him the benefit of the doubt. Then once he brought race into it, I was like "fuck it... just another negro lowlife trying to get out of shit with the race card".
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Inconsistencies on the part of Camel Jockey aside, it's disgusting that the usual suspects in media and politics are trying to make this a "race" thing.
Honestly, at first I was defending Vick, suggesting that until he's found guilty in a court, we owe him the benefit of the doubt. Then once he brought race into it, I was like "fuck it... just another negro lowlife trying to get out of shit with the race card".
Maybe it is...
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It's called joking around.
I've never hurt an animal ever. What I said in the past was to piss off the the dog lovers on this forum. Vick ran a dog fighting ring and he killed animals in brutal fashion. What jokes I made in the past doesn't take away my right to be critical of him.
Anyways, Al Doggity is trying to turn this around. ::) Saying it'd be different if Vick weren't black. hahahaha sounds like the race card to me.
This is America. You can criticize anything you want. As can I.
Maybe they were lies, but they certainly didn't sound like jokes. They were all from diff threads and you seemed more angry than jovial.
And if you want to consider it the race card, then you're entitled. I was just pointing out the inconsistencies in your posts.
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Some People will just keep PERPETUATING THE STEREOTYPE!
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Inconsistencies on the part of Camel Jockey aside, it's disgusting that the usual suspects in media and politics are trying to make this a "race" thing.
Honestly, at first I was defending Vick, suggesting that until he's found guilty in a court, we owe him the benefit of the doubt. Then once he brought race into it, I was like "fuck it... just another negro lowlife trying to get out of shit with the race card".
I've asked you this before, but when and where did Vick or his attorneys "play the race card"?
I've heard the PROSECUTOR and the SHERIFF make some race based comments, but nothing from people on Vick's payroll. If I'm wrong, Ill admit it, but I just haven't seen any evidence that even partially suggests I am.
Black court protesters don't equal Vick playing the race card. Youandme has been posting threads counting down the wait for the "race card" since the story broke, something that I basically consider a variation for whites.
The funny thing is that while I was searching through some of the Vick threads, I did notice that your posts were a little more even keeled a few weeks ago. So I'm honestly awaiting your post on the specific incident or series of incidents that you considered "the race card."
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This is America. You can criticize anything you want. As can I.
Maybe they were lies, but they certainly didn't sound like jokes. They were all from diff threads and you seemed more angry than jovial.
And if you want to consider it the race card, then you're entitled. I was just pointing out the inconsistencies in your posts.
I was pushing buttons. I've never hurt any animals ever unless you count fish that I've caught. I will admit that in the past year or so I've warmed up to animals a little more I've as taken interest in dog breeds and have played with some of my neighbors' dogs and cats.
I will admit that I am harder on Vick because he's an idiot. He's got everything and he still does something silly as dog fighting and plus he over saw the execution of several dogs in brutal fashion. When you have that much money it should move you away from that ghetto shit, not amplify it.
I am not perhaps as hard on Paris Hilton, but I do think she should have served more time in prison. I also think Lindsay Lohan should go as well because of her drunk driving.
Vick just seems more of a bad apple, as opposed to Lohan and Hilton, who just seem stupid and harmless.
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This is America. You can criticize anything you want. As can I.
I know what it is. You are saying we're harsher on Vick because of his background, yet you lecture me what we can and can't do in America? Perhaps something to do with my own background? ;)
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This thread needs come pics...does anyone have a stalker pic
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I know what it is. You are saying we're harsher on Vick because of his background, yet you lecture me what we can and can't do in America? Perhaps something to do with my own background? ;)
...because no one ever uses the phrase "It's a free country" to anyone except Middle Eastern immigrants. It's not like it's a figure of speech or anything.
I don't think anything in the posts I pasted from could be considered a joke. Like I said previously, they may have been lies, but not jokes. The puppy story seems a little random to just be made up.
Even if your previous positions were just to push buttons, it's still interesting that it is the Vick case that finally broke your streak. You consistently held the viewpoint that animal abuse was not something to be taken seriously. You even included caveats that you thought animal abuse was bad, just not bad enough to take seriously. You can explain it anyway you like, but I am pretty discerning and it's not difficult to see what's going on.
So, as I'm sure you are aware, you don't need my permission to continue posting "race card" forum pix. You can post forum pix of lynchings and cross burnings in every thread on these boards if it pleases you. I doubt they'd get deleted. That, along with your previous posts, will just support my position that, unfortunately and by default, this whole mess will come down to an issue of race for a lot of people, and not just the blacks supporting Vick outside of the courthouse.
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This thread needs come pics...does anyone have a stalker pic
What, have you suddenly lost your ability to use Google images?
(http://www.robertmccammon.com/images/other_stalkers_hc.jpg)
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So, as I'm sure you are aware, you don't need my permission to continue posting "race card" forum pix. You can post forum pix of lynchings and cross burnings in every thread on these boards if it pleases you. I doubt they'd get deleted. That, along with your previous posts, will just support my position that, unfortunately and by default, this whole mess will come down to an issue of race for a lot of people, and not just the blacks supporting Vick outside of the courthouse.
it is about race and culture. The whole "hip hop" movement and all it's violence and garbage.
I spent a long portion of my life growing up and witnessing the whole ghetto scene first hand. Vick is a representation of what I hate, and he just happens to be black. I'd be lying to you if I told you that I didn't judge him harsher because of his background. I'm honest enough to admit that. It's common sense to me.
I'm no racist. I don't hate people unless they give me a reason.
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it is about race and culture. The whole "hip hop" movement and all it's violence and garbage.
I spent a long portion of my life growing up and witnessing the whole ghetto scene first hand. Vick is a representation of what I hate, and he just happens to be black. I'd be lying to you if I told you that I didn't judge him harsher because of his background. I'm honest enough to admit that. It's common sense to me.
I'm no racist. I don't hate people unless they give me a reason.
CJ is right.
When it is white or Japanese people wearing three sizes too big clothing, cherishing the "Gangsta" lifestyle, talking about "Pimpin'" and "Ho's"...
Then I find it equally disgusting and ridiculous.
It ain't cool. And it never was.
Ice T, Ice Cube and Snoop, Allen Iverson, aren't role models. They never were.
Chuck D is different IMO, and he was never a scum like the aforementioned.
The black community leaders, and those who becomes icons, have a great responsibility.
It is clear as a day that they have failed it miserably.
It's not about becoming Uncle Tom. It's about showing that black people, when getting rich, will act like regular blokes.
Tiger Woods is great on so many levels. He refuses to become some kind of stereotype Black male, still he will act firmly against racism, like when he used a Nike commercial to make a statement against Golf Clubs who still banned black members.
These are pretty harsh words, and generalizations, but generalisations are necessary when discussing tendencies.
Morgan Freeman is someone I think is a good icon, for both black and white.
None of that "brotha" BS from him. But he's very candid about opposing the Union flag and symbols of slavery. He's legit.
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What, have you suddenly lost your ability to use Google images?
(http://www.robertmccammon.com/images/other_stalkers_hc.jpg)
lmao, I'm going to go post this in the Billy guns threads
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I'm critical of my own folks too.
Hell, when I see some asshole who's been here for a decade and still struggles with english and refuses to integrate, also thinks that driving a cab is the height of civilization.. I get upset, more so than when I see ghetto trash.
Like I said, I don't hate people unless they give me a reason to. I make generalizations, but I'd never deny someone if they showed me otherwise.
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it is about race and culture. The whole "hip hop" movement and all it's violence and garbage.
I spent a long portion of my life growing up and witnessing the whole ghetto scene first hand. Vick is a representation of what I hate, and he just happens to be black. I'd be lying to you if I told you that I didn't judge him harsher because of his background. I'm honest enough to admit that. It's common sense to me.
I'm no racist. I don't hate people unless they give me a reason.
This thread wasn't really about whether or not you are a racist. You've posted enough about race in the past that anyone who cares to hazard a conclusion on that matter can do so without any more input from you.
This thread is just an illustration of how many faces the race card really has. The race card is not just "the black excuse." The race card is how race factors into and alters social dynamics. You completely changed your position on an issue based on the people involved. You can say it was based on "race", "culture" or "the boogeyman", but that's really nothing more than semantics.
I don't really care if you are racist. I just found those posts interesting because they formed the most complete real world example of "reverse race cardism" that I have ever seen.
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I'm critical of my own folks too.
Hell, when I see some asshole who's been here for a decade and still struggles with english and refuses to integrate, also thinks that driving a cab is the height of civilization.. I get upset, more so than when I see ghetto trash.
Like I said, I don't hate people unless they give me a reason to. I make generalizations, but I'd never deny someone if they showed me otherwise.
And you're all over the places with these "I'm not racist" statements: "I only hate people based on culture not race"- I mean "I don't hate anyone"- I mean "I hate everyone including my own culture"- I mean "I may hate certain groups, but I might change my mind once I get to know them." Good grief.
Why does it matter what others think of you anyway? If I were you, I'd just be like "Yeah, I'm racist... and Vick should rot in jail." Then I'd post that monkey race card pic, again.
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This thread is just an illustration of how many faces the race card really has. The race card is not just "the black excuse." The race card is how race factors into and alters social dynamics. You completely changed your position on an issue based on the people involved. You can say it was based on "race", "culture" or "the boogeyman", but that's really nothing more than semantics.
I told you that I had taken a liking to dogs over the last few months. ::) I even posted a topic in the Pet board about what breed of dog would be perfect for me.
That's final.
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i DID NOT READ THIS THREAD....
however...EVERYONE is conditionally racist....at some point...ITS NORMAL 2 BE SO YA FUCKS...
i'm brown and once a while i'll call another brownie a sand nig<in anger>....its OK...
my 2 cents?? people overtly sensitive about race r the true racists...
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This thread wasn't really about whether or not you are a racist. You've posted enough about race in the past that anyone who cares to hazard a conclusion on that matter can do so without any more input from you.
Hi Al, where have you been hiding. It's been forever since I've seen you post.
I'm still enjoying those 3 pointers from clear across the court. ;)
btw, your avatar isn't showing up, ...so here's one you can use that does show up.
It's pretty appropriate don't cha think? :D
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/an1080.gif)
This thread is just an illustration of how many faces the race card really has. The race card is not just "the black excuse." The race card is how race factors into and alters social dynamics. You completely changed your position on an issue based on the people involved. You can say it was based on "race", "culture" or "the boogeyman", but that's really nothing more than semantics.
I don't really care if you are racist. I just found those posts interesting because they formed the most complete real world example of "reverse race cardism" that I have ever seen.
And CJ, ...don't for a minute think I've forgotten about you or left you out. I have an avatar for you too.
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/an907.gif)
;D
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Honestly, at first I was defending Vick, suggesting that until he's found guilty in a court, we owe him the benefit of the doubt. Then once he brought race into it, I was like "fuck it... just another negro lowlife trying to get out of shit with the race card".
In this country, it works for White folk.
Shouldn't it work for Black and Brown peoples, too?
Just wondering.
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i DID NOT READ THIS THREAD....
Then do that and try again.
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A few, allright more than a few, of you guys are huge fucking hypocrites, LOL!
Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton are harmless but Vick is a menace to society? Have any of you met people that were affected by drunk drivers?
Here's why people hate when the "Race card" is laid down. It reminds them of the fact that blacks were automatically guilty for a lot of years and furthermore..... white people (as a majority) had no problem whatsoever with it. Am I suggesting all whites are racist? No, that would be stupid. But the civil rights movement was more about long term pay equality for next generation immigrants (who resemble the majority) and women than blacks. If there were any other way to Americanize successive generations of European immigrants without the Civil Rights act it would have been done.
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the sale of negro's to america by their OWN PEOPLE in africa should enable negro's of today's generation to join the american dream.........only one thing though.....you have to WORK for it. just like all immigrants who came by boat to ellis island.
so.........quit complaining negro's, and get to fvckin work.
Neuro,
Please beg Ron to change your handle to dumbass. :)
Only a true dumbass would compare slavery to immigration.
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the civil rights movement was more about long term pay equality for next generation immigrants (who resemble the majority) and women than blacks. If there were any other way to Americanize successive generations of European immigrants without the Civil Rights act it would have been done.
Huh??
I think you're out in left field with this one, jake. The majority of European immigrants came to the US well prior to WWII. The civil rights movement wasn't until the late 60's. At that point, as with today, most immigrants were from Latin America and Asia, not Europe.
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no person alive today was a slave. it's time to "get over it" and get to work.
Yep.
Sooner or later the black community will realize all this "race" bullshit they constantly stir up hurts them far more than it helps them.
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no person alive today was a slave. it's time to "get over it" and get to work.
nuff said.
That would be like telling Jews to "get over the Holocaust", LOL!
Besides, can you really compare voluntarily immigrating to a country with one's culture intact to being enslaved? Italians, Irish, German, Lebanese, Syrians, etc... can still in many instances trace their roots or have maintained some semblance of their pre-immigration culture/traditions.
It's true poor people make too many excuses and blame the man. I'm not ballsy enough to deny that truth and always hold people responsible.
But.. at some point the descendants of immigrants became full fledged Americans. Even the Irish indentured servants eventually became Americans. Even Lebanese married every Italian they could find, LOL! Every group that immigrated and suffered some form of discrimination eventually got their due. Yet... the group that was immigrated under duress got left hanging.
The immigrants arrived with culture and traditions intact. That foundation let them flourish. Can you legitimately compare that to generations of slavery and having every single tradition erased? Again..... and I'm gonna type this really, really slow for you. :) I am not saying slavery should be used as an excuse for blacks, browns, greens, etc... to underperform. I'm saying slavery's and the institutionalized racism following its abolition have negatively impacted the development of African American culture.
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The immigrants arrived with culture and traditions intact. That foundation let them flourish. Can you legitimately compare that to generations of slavery and having every single tradition erased? Again..... and I'm gonna type this really, really slow for you. :) I am not saying slavery should be used as an excuse for blacks, browns, greens, etc... to underperform. I'm saying slavery's and the institutionalized racism following its abolition have negatively impacted the development of African American culture.
Why do you even have to have an "african american culture"?
Why not just be part of American culture like everyone else who has been here for multiple generations? ::)
It is your insistance on being a seperate "culture" that is holding you back.
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Why do you even have to have an "african american culture"?
Why not just be part of American culture like everyone else who has been here for multiple generations? ::)
It is your insistance on being a seperate "culture" that is holding you back.
Next time a friend is visiting family in Israel, Italy, Lebanon, etc... I'll give them that advice. :)
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I told you that I had taken a liking to dogs over the last few months. ::) I even posted a topic in the Pet board about what breed of dog would be perfect for me.
That's final.
So once again, your story changes. ::) Those weren't jokes just to get a rise out of people, you've just warmed up to dogs in the last few months.
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Why do you even have to have an "african american culture"?
Why not just be part of American culture like everyone else who has been here for multiple generations? ::)
It is your insistance on being a seperate "culture" that is holding you back.
This is basically just bluster. "African American culture" is American culture starring black people. It is not a SEPARATE culture; it's a subculture. Everything about african american culture is informed by living as an American citizen.
Race is a huge divider in this country, so naturally it can be a significant unifier, too. People with similar skin tones likely have backgrounds that have a lot in common.
I live in New York and have friends across the racial spectrum. Italians, Jews, Asians all celebrate and acknowledge their heritage on a regular basis- whether it be through food, tradition or even use of their home language. As ethnic groups they are no more assimilated than blacks.
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Hi Al, where have you been hiding.
I've been around during the last few weeks. It's been a few years since I've posted regularly- I'm surprised anyone at all remembers me.
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A few, allright more than a few, of you guys are huge fucking hypocrites, LOL!
Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton are harmless but Vick is a menace to society? Have any of you met people that were affected by drunk drivers?
Here's why people hate when the "Race card" is laid down. It reminds them of the fact that blacks were automatically guilty for a lot of years and furthermore..... white people (as a majority) had no problem whatsoever with it. Am I suggesting all whites are racist? No, that would be stupid. But the civil rights movement was more about long term pay equality for next generation immigrants (who resemble the majority) and women than blacks. If there were any other way to Americanize successive generations of European immigrants without the Civil Rights act it would have been done.
The evidence has long been in... the biggest winners from the civil rights movement have by far been white women.
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no, but jews tend to be educated.....unlike most negro's. do jews ask for handouts because of the holocaust? i think not.
They asked for an entire country that was Palestine at the time. Europeans were repatriated on someone else's land by the UN. Imagine the UN giving Indian land in the US and Canada back to Native American tribes, LOL!
Do a search on US aid to Israel and then look at the return rate in US dollars to Israel versus PAC money donated.
Then......... send Ron a discrete PM asking he change your name to dumbass, LOL!
I'm not asserting that there are any slaves or owners left. I don't even believe there is any remedy other than time to heal the damage. But it's funny as hell to pretend slavery had no effect on the development of black culture.
If someone asserted the Holocaust didn't affect the collective Jewish psyche to some extent everyone would laugh and call them a dumbass. Yet, you can say something that dumb and... nevermind, LOL! Someone did laugh and call you a dumbass. No harm, no foul. :)
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Why do you even have to have an "african american culture"?
Why not just be part of American culture like everyone else who has been here for multiple generations? ::)
It is your insistance on being a seperate "culture" that is holding you back.
I can't understand that. What's with all these "LaQueeda", "Lashanda", "Antawn" et al?
And Big L, Li'l D, Frizzy F, and lord knows what else?
It's just strange.
The same goes for the white thrash, and those hillbilly inbreeds who love NASCAR and make out with their sister.
It's just embarrassing.
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the good "doctor" must have roots to the negro community. ???
The villagers must miss you dearly.
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I got on this one late.........Comparing the holocaust to slavery, being that Blacks have had how many years to get on with it? The holocaust happened 60 plus years ago. Historicallly speaking, pretty short. In that time they have rebuilt wealth, settled a homeland, fought several wars, and ensured that it will never happen again. Blacks have been butchering themselves in Africa, wholesale, since the Europeans pulled out of Africa. They complain about everything in this country. Everybody is out to get them. With the Jews, Everybody is out to get them, and they have done pretty well. I really don't think you can compare the two groups. But everybody wants to.
Somebody brought up Morgan Freeman. I see an American going about his business, more of him as a roll model and less pimp/ho rap subculture bs and we wouldn't need the race card. Folks like Sharpton/Jackson and the NAACP do more harm for race relations then any good their organizations could do for black Americans.
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hh6,
Morgan Freeman must be really, really..... really glad to fit your ideal of what a back man should be. :)
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Why do you even have to have an "african american culture"?
Why not just be part of American culture like everyone else who has been here for multiple generations? ::)
It is your insistance on being a seperate "culture" that is holding you back.
What do you make of the Japanese Chamber of Commerce, Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, Chinese Cultural Center, etc., etc.? We probably have about 50 organizations like that in Hawaii.
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I got on this one late.........Comparing the holocaust to slavery, being that Blacks have had how many years to get on with it? The holocaust happened 60 plus years ago. Historicallly speaking, pretty short. In that time they have rebuilt wealth, settled a homeland, fought several wars, and ensured that it will never happen again. Blacks have been butchering themselves in Africa, wholesale, since the Europeans pulled out of Africa. They complain about everything in this country. Everybody is out to get them. With the Jews, Everybody is out to get them, and they have done pretty well. I really don't think you can compare the two groups. But everybody wants to.
Somebody brought up Morgan Freeman. I see an American going about his business, more of him as a roll model and less pimp/ho rap subculture bs and we wouldn't need the race card. Folks like Sharpton/Jackson and the NAACP do more harm for race relations then any good their organizations could do for black Americans.
Headhunter I view it a little differently. Slavery officially ended in the 1800s, but it was essentially recodified (the "Black Codes") and lasted through the 1960s. It wasn't until Brown v. Board (desegregation of schools), the Voting Rights Act, the 64 Civil Rights Act, etc. that we got most of that stuff off the books. There were other things like racially restrictive covenants (precluding certain racial groups from buying in the neighborhood), insurance redlining (refusing to insure entire communities based on race), etc. We are one generation removed from that stuff. Talk to people who lived through the civil rights movement. I have. It wasn't that long ago.
I'm not saying anyone can use this as an excuse to commit crime, underachieve, etc., but we are talking about a very recent past when it comes to legalized race discrimination.
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What do you make of the Japanese Chamber of Commerce, Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, Chinese Cultural Center, etc., etc.? We probably have about 50 organizations like that in Hawaii.
When was the last time you ever heard of a chinese or japanese pulling the race card? See, those people aren't constantly fuccking up and then trying to blame it all on "whitey". ::)
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When was the last time you ever heard of a chinese or japanese pulling the race card? See, those people aren't constantly fuccking up and then trying to blame it all on "whitey". ::)
I don't see the majority of any group playing the race card.
I was asking about these comments:
Why do you even have to have an "african american culture"?
Why not just be part of American culture like everyone else who has been here for multiple generations?
It is your insistance on being a seperate "culture" that is holding you back.
Many ethnic groups celebrate and advance their "culture." Are you saying all ethnic groups in this country should stop doing this?
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I got on this one late.........Comparing the holocaust to slavery, being that Blacks have had how many years to get on with it? The holocaust happened 60 plus years ago. Historicallly speaking, pretty short. In that time they have rebuilt wealth, settled a homeland, fought several wars, and ensured that it will never happen again.
You're absolutely right HH, you're a day late and more than a few dollars short. It doesn't compare in the least.
Here's a partial list as to why:
- Jewish holocaust survivors had the ability to hide in plain sight, an ability the vast majority of African holocaust survivors did not have.
- Many Jewish holocaust survivors had the ability to keep their wealth intact, finding ingenious ways to hide it, and keep themselves fairly liquid. African holocaust survivors did not.
- Because the Jewish holocaust took place over a relatively short period of time (6 yrs vs. 600 yrs) many survivors were able to keep their culture and traditions in tact. African holocaust survivors did not. 600 yrs of subjugation does not dissappear overnight.
- Jewish holocaust survivors (Israel) were given land, and they receive trillions of dollars in direct aid annually from the USA, African holocaust survivors are still waiting for their 40 acres and a mule.
Blacks have been butchering themselves in Africa, wholesale, since the Europeans pulled out of Africa.
What you lump into one group and refer to as 'Blacks', are in reality different countries, irrespective of the race of it's inhabitants. It does not differ from wars we've seen between USA & England, England & Argentina, England & Ireland, France & England, USA & Spain, Germany & Poland, Germany and the rest of Europe... etc., etc., etc., Or even the war of 1812 when someone got their ass whooped real hard. I won't even mention the US civil war and the butchery there wherein brother fought against brother (often times quite literally more than figuratively) The difference is you at least afford the participants of those wars the benefit of distinction based upon nationality, and or political ideology. Wars in Africa you seem to want to distinguish by race, rather than nations, or even by their root causes... almost as if the root cause of the unrest is the actual race of the participants themselves. It reveals much about your mindset. You are the one playing the race card in this argument, ...but it's a very feeble, inadequate, and ineffective attempt to do so, ...unless you're speaking to those with a KKK mentality. Thinking people know better. Theorizing about people of colour evidently is not your strong suit. Maybe you should stick to what you know best... butchering them instead.
If you have any other brainfarts stupid assinine theories you care to espouse,
...I'd be more than happy to disabuse you of those delusions as well. Just say the word.
I really don't think you can compare the two groups. But everybody wants to.
I knew sooner or later we'd find some common ground. :D
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Many ethnic groups celebrate and advance their "culture." Are you saying all ethnic groups in this country should stop doing this?
Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying.
National unity is not built by sub-dividing ourselves into seperate subcultures, then battling to try to get a "leg up" on everyone not a member of our particular group.
People in this country should be viewed as individuals first, then as Americans, but never as "groups".
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Y
- Because the Jewish holocaust took place over a relatively short period of time (6 yrs vs. 600 yrs) many survivors were able to keep their culture and traditions in tact. African holocaust survivors did not. 600 yrs of subjugation does not dissappear overnight.
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- Jewish holocaust survivors (Israel) were given land, and they receive trillions of dollars in direct aid annually from the USA, African holocaust survivors are still waiting for their 40 acres and a mule.
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trillions of dollars in aid annually . . . i'm sure someone well-educated and smart like would know the size of our ENTIRE ANNUAL BUDGET . . . ::)
six years of hatred for jews . . . compared to SIX HUNDRED YEARS for africans . . . i'm sure someone well-educated and smart like you would realize that various groups of people have been trying to exterminate the Jews for thousands of years . . . ::)
i'm sure these are harmless typos you've made . . .
you're not the kind to go around spewing venomous bullshit, are you?
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trillions of dollars in aid annually . . . i'm sure someone well-educated and smart like would know the size of our ENTIRE ANNUAL BUDGET . . . ::)
I guess you are not aware of contributions that fail to go on the books.
six years of hatred for jews . . . compared to SIX HUNDRED YEARS for africans . . . i'm sure someone well-educated and smart like you would realize that various groups of people have been trying to exterminate the Jews for thousands of years . . .
i'm sure these are harmless typos you've made . . .
I've made no typo's despite how cleverly you attempt to rephrase or spin my statements.
As a descendant of Jews myself... I am aware of certain issues that relate to the 13th lost tribe of Israel.
you're not the kind to go around spewing venomous bullshit, are you?
No that appears to be more your specialty.
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I guess you are not aware of contributions that fail to go on the books.
I've made no typo's despite how cleverly you attempt to rephrase or spin my statements.
As a descendant of Jews myself... I am aware of certain issues that relate to the 13th lost tribe of Israel.
No that appears to be more your specialty.
since you no longer have facts at your disposal, you take recourse in fairy-tales. how surprising. ::) ;D
"fail to go on the books" "descendant of Jews" "13th lost tribe of ISrael"
monster convincing.
ROFLMAO
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since you no longer have facts at your disposal, you take recourse in fairy-tales. how surprising. ::) ;D
"fail to go on the books" "descendant of Jews" "13th lost tribe of ISrael"
monster convincing.
ROFLMAO
If the references go over your head, it's not surprising.
*{plonk}*
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If the references go over your head, it's not surprising.
*{plonk}*
how about you tell us about "off the books" substantiation of the existence of leprechauns next . . . btw, aren't the yetis part of the 13th lost tribe of israel?
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying.
National unity is not built by sub-dividing ourselves into seperate subcultures, then battling to try to get a "leg up" on everyone not a member of our particular group.
People in this country should be viewed as individuals first, then as Americans, but never as "groups".
Great post.
I for one think it's ridiculous when Americans refers to themselves as "Chinese", "Italians", "Norwegians", or as in a recent case ;D, "Swedes".
The first time I saw personal ads in the US, I thought it was a joke, what's up with this "single WHITE female"? Horrible.
Be proud to be an American I say.
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I guess you are not aware of contributions that fail to go on the books.
I've made no typo's despite how cleverly you attempt to rephrase or spin my statements.
As a descendant of Jews myself... I am aware of certain issues that relate to the 13th lost tribe of Israel.
No that appears to be more your specialty.
Explain something to me.
If I put it this way: The US budget is usually around $2 trillion dollars.
So how could Israel, a much smaller country, receive trillions of dollars annually from USA?
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colored people hold themselves down. this is abundantly clear growing up in new york city. one of the first things that jumps out is that black children who attempt to become educated are referred to as "uncle tom's and sell outs" by the black community.
True
how the fvck can black children aspire to become successful in that environment?
A lot of hard work. The journey from the hood to a Doctorate is longer because the resistance is internal and external.
drkj must live on another planet........come to nyc and see how colored people HOLD THEMSELVES DOWN. no help is needed by any other race.....they do nicely on their own.
Upstate doesn't have any blacks. :)
wake up to reality "dr".
All those statements are true to some extent. That lack of cultural identity/place is a direct result of slavery. Blacks, as a people will eventully make more progress and even have a real middle class some day but it's going to take a lot of time.
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add justice c. thomas to that list.
Let me get this straight, LOL! You guys can name 4 or 5 high profile successful blacks who aren't entertainers or in sports and honestly can't see that there is a problem? The black community definately doesn't have the appreciation of education compared to immigrants and that's got to be fixed. In a lot of cases there is a deep resentment held towards educated black people..... on both sides.
These problems have to be addressed within the black community itself or a majority of us are fucked. Also, a lot of people are just plain ignorant.. so unless Snoop Dogg or JayZ start rapping about school the message will never get out. :)
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;D
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Blacks, as a people will eventully make more progress and even have a real middle class some day
Some day?
I know many middle-class blacks now. The "black community" views them negatively and call them "oreos". ::)
And the middle class blacks, the smart ones at least, want nothing to do with the majority "black community" and their gangsta-wanna-be's. Like everyone else, they think they're just a bunch of stupid niggers.
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i'm happy to see you finally agree with the facts.
on the whole, blacks hold themselves down.
case in point.....ask most blacks if they lookup to colin powell or condi rice.....the answer is NO. they are perceived to be SELLOUTS.
Don't get too giddy, LOL!
We aren't debating the facts, per se. It's the root cause of the 'facts' which is at debate here. My argument is that the cultural infrastructure of blacks was erased during slavery and these problems are symptoms. It is going to take black people a long time to catch up. I routinely did health fairs and volunteer work... a lot of the kids have never seen a black doctor who wasn't an actor on some show. One black "dr" doesn't really amount to a hill of beans against those odds.
Whatever soloutions occur, they will come well after priorities within the community/culture (as a whole) change. Rice, Powell, Thomas, etc... are so far from the typical street black person's frame of reference that they may as well be from Mars. I would never presume any comparison between myself and other Americans, like them, who have accomplished that level of achievement. That being said, people from the old neighborhood have a difficult time relating to me in this current context.
Some day?
I know many middle-class blacks now. The "black community" views them negatively and call them "oreos". ::)
And the middle class blacks, the smart ones at least, want nothing to do with the majority "black community" and their gangsta-wanna-be's. Like everyone else, they think they're just a bunch of stupid niggers.
I specifically mean enough buying power to dictate advertisment changes. Not that there aren't blacks who make lower six figures.
My personal definition of the word "black" is an ignorant person. I'm fairly liberal with the term and have not restricted its use to black people for fear of being called a racist. :)
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Jag....i was comparing the holocaust, a relatively recent historical event to Blacks and the constant whining by some in the Black community. I don't owe them a damm thing. America doesn't owe them a thing. We owe them the same as everybody else. A good education, beyond that its what u make of it. If we need to channel more energy into making that happen then so be it. It will make a stronger America if we have more educated people. All the whining pisses all other groups off. Alot of minority races have come to this country recently and have made a success stoy out of themselves. Its time for the black community to tell Jackson and Sharpton to shut the hell up. Education is the key, drop the hip hop culture crap.
Ever been to a death camp u idiot...hiding in plain site? The Germans did a pretty good job of finding and murdering 6 million. Further, drop the KKk thing. Anytime anybody has an opinion about blacks, besides blacks, its racist. If a black says the same about a white, we have to take it? Bullshit, get over yourself, I look at the average black person no different then other Americans.
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Some day?
I know many middle-class blacks now. The "black community" views them negatively and call them "oreos". ::)
And the middle class blacks, the smart ones at least, want nothing to do with the majority "black community" and their gangsta-wanna-be's. Like everyone else, they think they're just a bunch of stupid niggers.
When Condoleeza Rice and Clarence Thomas are criticized by people in the black community it has more to do with their POLITICS and ideologies than the fact that they are successful. Whites from opposing parties are not above criticizing each other. Many republicans stooped to attacking the "American-ness" of democrats, post 9-11 if the President was questioned. The situation involving Condi and Clarence is no different.
An overwhelming majority of blacks are democrats. Smart, successful black democrats- even "the good, clean ones" that white people like - are admired in the community.
Cases in point- people like Corey Booker and Barrack Obama.
Barrack, the middle-class, Harvard educated lawyer, has a wide base of support from the black community ( and just to point out that blacks are not necessarily voting by the race card, Hilary's support is actually a little higher.)
Then there's Corey Booker, the Yale educated, middle class mayor of the mostly black city of Newark. He has a favorable Q rating among blacks from across the nation. After a failed mayoral run a few years ago, Booker secured the mayoral seat during the last election with more than 70% of the vote.
These are just a few examples: You've got guys like Harold Ford, H. Carl McCall, "clean cut" politicians who enjoy alot of support from both whites and blacks . Oprah is one of the most successful PEOPLE ever, whose empire goes well beyond entertainment, and despite what 50 Cents says, I dare you to find a young black woman who does not idolize her.
You can probably find online examples of any of these folks being called "Uncle Toms" or sellouts, but that's just anecdotal. There's always gonna be ig'nant fools. I can probably find a good many examples of them being called "####" or worse by whites.
I say all of this to say that I don't agree with your assertion that there is a backlash against upwardly mobile blacks from the majority of the black community. I'm sure you know what you know and there's no way for me tell you what you know, but my experiences with blacks have been a lot different than yours.
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When Condoleeza Rice and Clarence Thomas are criticized by people in the black community it has more to do with their POLITICS and ideologies than the fact that they are successful. Whites from opposing parties are not above criticizing each other. Many republicans stooped to attacking the "American-ness" of democrats, post 9-11 if the President was questioned. The situation involving Condi and Clarence is no different.
An overwhelming majority of blacks are democrats. Smart, successful black democrats- even "the good, clean ones" that white people like - are admired in the community.
Cases in point- people like Corey Booker and Barrack Obama.
Barrack, the middle-class, Harvard educated lawyer, has a wide base of support from the black community ( and just to point out that blacks are not necessarily voting by the race card, Hilary's support is actually a little higher.)
Then there's Corey Booker, the Yale educated, middle class mayor of the mostly black city of Newark. He has a favorable Q rating among blacks from across the nation. After a failed mayoral run a few years ago, Booker secured the mayoral seat during the last election with more than 70% of the vote.
These are just a few examples: You've got guys like Harold Ford, H. Carl McCall, "clean cut" politicians who enjoy alot of support from both whites and blacks . Oprah is one of the most successful PEOPLE ever, whose empire goes well beyond entertainment, and despite what 50 Cents says, I dare you to find a young black woman who does not idolize her.
You can probably find online examples of any of these folks being called "Uncle Toms" or sellouts, but that's just anecdotal. There's always gonna be ig'nant fools. I can probably find a good many examples of them being called "####" or worse by whites.
I say all of this to say that I don't agree with your assertion that there is a backlash against upwardly mobile blacks from the majority of the black community. I'm sure you know what you know and there's no way for me tell you what you know, but my experiences with blacks have been a lot different than yours.
well, most elite schools have affirmative action programs that cast a long shadow on black achievement.
as prominent legal scholar Lino graglia noted, "if you go by IQ, blacks are not underrepresented at elite institutions, they are OVERrepresented."
Blacks do need assistance, but it should begin w pre-schoolers . . . b/c a handout to an adult will always be seen as a handout. if you help children, on the other hand . . .
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well, most elite schools have affirmative action programs that cast a long shadow on black achievement.
as prominent legal scholar Lino graglia noted, "if you go by IQ, blacks are not underrepresented at elite institutions, they are OVERrepresented."
Blacks do need assistance, but it should begin w pre-schoolers . . . b/c a handout to an adult will always be seen as a handout. if you help children, on the other hand . . .
And the rub here is that iq is not used as the sole determining admissions factor for demographics other than black, either. Legacy preference is just as pervasive, if not moreso, than any ethnic-based preference systems at some universities. Harvard accepts nearly half of all legacies and acceptance rates are similar at a lot of top schools.
So where affirmative action may create artificial diversity, there are other practices that maintain an artificial status quo completely irrespective of merit.
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yes, legacies need to go too . . . meritocracy all the way.
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yes, legacies need to go too . . . meritocracy all the way.
Yes because the kid of some rich guy who gave loads to the school is just as bad as Terrel "the thug" Biggoms. j/k ;D
A good study below.. Affirmative action has adverse effects on asians applying to university. Epic trying to help two groups at the expense of others. :-\
http://opr.princeton.edu/faculty/tje/espenshadessqptii.pdf
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Yes because the kid of some rich guy who gave loads to the school is just as bad as Terrel "the thug" Biggoms. j/k ;D
A good study below.. Affirmative action has adverse effects on asians applying to university. Epic trying to help two groups at the expense of others. :-\
http://opr.princeton.edu/faculty/tje/espenshadessqptii.pdf
where I went to school you got points even if your dad gave no money to the school.
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BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
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colored people hold themselves down. this is abundantly clear growing up in new york city. one of the first things that jumps out is that black children who attempt to become educated are referred to as "uncle tom's and sell outs" by the black community.
how the fvck can black children aspire to become successful in that environment?
drkj must live on another planet........come to nyc and see how colored people HOLD THEMSELVES DOWN. no help is needed by any other race.....they do nicely on their own.
wake up to reality "dr".
The same can be said of Caucasians growing up in the hills of kentucky. Ever seen some of those throwbacks?
The point being, while there are underachievers in all races, not all Blacks take their cues from the ghettos of NYC, just as not all whites take their cues from Ozark mountain dwellers.
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Explain something to me.
If I put it this way: The US budget is usually around $2 trillion dollars.
So how could Israel, a much smaller country, receive trillions of dollars annually from USA?
There are private institutions to which Americans pay money. Institutions that are not federal in nature, ...but bear the name 'Federal'. ...and that's all I'm going to say on the issue. Criticizing the USA is one thing, ...criticizing institutions that own the USA (unbeknownst to her citizens) is quite another kettle of fish that I do not care to discuss publicly.
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Jag, daddy called. >:(
(http://www.mrnogood.com/images/farrakhan.jpg)
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Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying.
National unity is not built by sub-dividing ourselves into seperate subcultures, then battling to try to get a "leg up" on everyone not a member of our particular group.
People in this country should be viewed as individuals first, then as Americans, but never as "groups".
I tend to think American culture includes the many ethnic groups who maintain some semblance of their ethnicity. I don't raise my kids that way (we are Americans first and foremost), but different groups in our country have always celebrated their culture.
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Jag, daddy called. >:(
If you have a decent argument, ...make it. Otherwise stfu.
Please and thank you.
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A good study below.. Affirmative action has adverse effects on asians applying to university. Epic trying to help two groups at the expense of others. :-\
http://opr.princeton.edu/faculty/tje/espenshadessqptii.pdf
I'm glad you brought this up.
Now I can post some stuff about the concepts behind affirmative action.
Affirmative action is largely based on a social science known as network theory that analyzes how people live.
One thing that social network theorists have known for a long time is that having parents that attended college is probably the single most important factor in predicting if a student will attend college and how well they will do.
Just google "first generation college students" you will find a whole slew of studies. You will also see that there are outreach programs that go beyond race.
Now, this is the main reason Asians and Indians aren't covered by affirmative action considerations:
There is this myth that Asians come to this country poor and wind up making it through an unparalleled work ethic. The truth is that, due to strict immigration policies, the Asian population in America is highly self selected. Most are at least middle class when they arrive and a good percentage already possess secondary education. There are asian subsets that do come here poor and those groups, by and large, remain poor.
Here are some quotes from one study found here:
http://www.media.rice.edu/media/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=5457&SnID=2
Klineberg revealed that nearly 40 percent of Asian respondents said their fathers had been doctors, lawyers, corporate managers or other professionals, compared to about 30 percent of Anglos, 20 percent of Blacks, and 15 percent of Hispanics.
The occupational profiles of the Asian respondents and their fathers suggest little or no upward social mobility. For example, 44 percent of the Indians and Pakistanis in Houston are in professional or managerial positions, but so were 47 percent of their fathers. Among the Vietnamese, 28 percent are in low-skilled production or laboring jobs as were 30 percent of their fathers.
There are tons of studies like this. Generally, people across all ethnic demographics remain in the same economic bracket as their parents. There are exceptions, but percentage wise, my previous sentence remains the norm.
No ethnic group has had as many institutionalized obstacles to overcome as blacks.The same socio-economic picture would probably evident in any other group with the same history.
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BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
LOL, BOOOOOOOOOOOOM !
This must be the Diners Club card.
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yes, the root cause is feeling entitled and expecting a handout from "whitey."
reparations anyone?
"Whitey" cannot undo the damage. We have to take responsibility and fix the problems.
What good (other than shutting up nitwits) would reparations do? They wouldn't address the underlying issues one bit. Besides.... during the first 48 hours of Iraq war I they spent enough money to give every American Citizen 100K. The cost of reparations isn't really an issue at all.
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I'm glad you brought this up.
Now I can post some stuff about the concepts behind affirmative action.
Affirmative action is largely based on a social science known as network theory that analyzes how people live.
One thing that social network theorists have known for a long time is that having parents that attended college is probably the single most important factor in predicting if a student will attend college and how well they will do.
Just google "first generation college students" you will find a whole slew of studies. You will also see that there are outreach programs that go beyond race.
Now, this is the main reason Asians and Indians aren't covered by affirmative action considerations:
There is this myth that Asians come to this country poor and wind up making it through an unparalleled work ethic. The truth is that, due to strict immigration policies, the Asian population in America is highly self selected. Most are at least middle class when they arrive and a good percentage already possess secondary education. There are asian subsets that do come here poor and those groups, by and large, remain poor.
Here are some quotes from one study found here:
http://www.media.rice.edu/media/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=5457&SnID=2
There are tons of studies like this. Generally, people across all ethnic demographics remain in the same economic bracket as their parents. There are exceptions, but percentage wise, my previous sentence remains the norm.
No ethnic group has had as many institutionalized obstacles to overcome as blacks.The same socio-economic picture would probably evident in any other group with the same history.
I don't think asians or anyone should recieve preference or anything of that nature. I want affirmative action to be gone.
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There is this myth that Asians come to this country poor and wind up making it through an unparalleled work ethic. The truth is that, due to strict immigration policies, the Asian population in America is highly self selected. Most are at least middle class when they arrive and a good percentage already possess secondary education. There are asian subsets that do come here poor and those groups, by and large, remain poor.
That's a bit of a guess, don't you think? I mean if what you are saying is true, then some stats for asians will go from being skewed to being normal within the next 20 years or so, when immigrant kids will have grown up. We'll see then.
And of course immigrants that generally come to the states were above average in their respective homelands. Still, they come here somewhat poor and work their way up. You said that you were in NY, so tell me, you've never met people like this? People that came from somewhat of a poor background even though they were this and that in their country? I've met hundreds.
And how do you explain the difference in crime rates?
As for affirmative action. I can understand people making cases for black people and native americans, but hispanics? It seems like they're getting away with whatever they'd like in this country. Waltzing in through the borders free, yet still claiming racism. Making ordinary Americans adapt to their customs instead of the other way around. You talked about selective immigration policies, so you must see the danger of letting mexicans march in free and catering to them. These people coming in were the lowest of the low in their respective homelands.. Can't tell me cheap labor is worth all that.
You have to admit that there's certain "benefits" extend to blacks and hispanics at the expense of other demographics. This is true, otherwise there wouldn't be so many people bitching about it.
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i'll assume "we" refers to afro-americans?
Yes.
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That's a bit of a guess, don't you think? I mean if what you are saying is true, then some stats for asians will go from being skewed to being normal within the next 20 years or so, when immigrant kids will have grown up. We'll see then.
And of course immigrants that generally come to the states were above average in their respective homelands. Still, they come here somewhat poor and work their way up. You said that you were in NY, so tell me, you've never met people like this? People that came from somewhat of a poor background even though they were this and that in their country? I've met hundreds.
And how do you explain the difference in crime rates?
No. The newer immigrants are poorer and less educated. It's already apparent that the former generation of south east asian immigrants is not going to repeat its success.
Here are a few sites with more info:
http://www.vdare.com/rubenstein/south_asians.htm
For these later immigrants the picture is one of declining relative skills and economic performance. Among immigrants from India in the late 1980s, for example, only 20% had more than a high school education and 9 percent were unemployed. There are far fewer professionals than in earlier waves.
Most of this cohort end up with dead end jobs—running cheap motels, small neighborhood stores, marginal gas stations, or taxi-driving.
Another study:
http://migration.ucdavis.edu/MN/more.php?id=331_0_2_0
More than 30 percent of the Southeast Asians in the US--versus eight percent of all American residents-- are on welfare, the highest rate of welfare participation of any ethnic group. The seven million Asians in the US are three percent of the US population.
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If you have a decent argument, ...make it. Otherwise stfu.
Please and thank you.
never having a decent argument hasn't ever stopped you . . . :-*
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some more stats:
http://sampan.org/show_article.php?display=975&PHPSESSID=9d767f4a70da92e
"Many tend to think that Asians only face poverty when they are new immigrants -- that people are poor when they first come here, and then they work themselves up," said Liu. "But if you look at our attempt to correlate income with their tenure in the U.S., that's not true."
The report reveals that many Asian Americans are poor in every age group, sometimes no matter how long they've lived in the U.S.
For example, middle-aged Cambodians, when compared with everyone else in the same age group, are more than three times as likely to be poor. Chinese Americans ages 65 to 74 are nearly twice as likely as all other same-aged senior citizens to be low-income earners.
Another finding in the study that Liu said wasn't expected was that Vietnamese Americans who are naturalized citizens appear to be more economically successful than U.S.-born Vietnamese Americans, though the numbers of poor Vietnamese are still overall high.
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In regards to the lower crime rates. The biggest factor in determining whether someone goes to jail is their socio-economic status. Crime rates are low among first born immigrants, but invariably jump dramatically among poor, second generation immigrants. From a study:
http://www.migrationinformation.org/Feature/display.cfm?id=403
Incarceration rates increase significantly for all US-born coethnics without exception. That is most notable for Mexicans, whose incarceration rate increases more than eightfold to 5.9 percent among the US born; for Vietnamese (from 0.46 to 5.6 percent among the US born); and for the Laotians and Cambodians (from 0.92 percent to 7.26 percent, the highest of any group except for native blacks).
Bear in mind, that the Asian community in America is so small that trends are statistical trends are often easy to ignore.
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I don't think asians or anyone should recieve preference or anything of that nature. I want affirmative action to be gone.
The previous generation of Asians is one of the best arguments FOR affirmative action in the workplace. Despite joining the work force with more years of schooling, as a group they earn less the the national median income. It just puts the lie to the myth of a merit based society.
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If you have a decent argument, ...make it. Otherwise stfu.
Please and thank you.
daddy doesn't approve of rudeness.
(http://info.detnews.com/dn/pix/2005/11/03/asec/2005-1102-ctj-Rosa089_11-03-2005_7L9GLDC.jpg)
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never having a decent argument hasn't ever stopped you . . . :-*
daddy will get the crew on me if I don't stfu
(http://www.africawithin.com/mmm/farrakhan1.jpg)
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If you have a decent argument, ...make it. Otherwise stfu.
Please and thank you.
LOL,
I always like reading your posts Jag. Even the one liners.
Sandra
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The largest growing minority class in my hood is East Indian/Pakistani.
Hard working, bringing wealth with them. The high school has just added hindi to the curriculum.
Some people don't realize the systematic conditioning that America has had on the pysche of it's people.
Otherwise wealthy folk should know how to behave better.
Michael Vick shouldn't have people involved with illegal dog fighting.
Brittney spears shouldn't be allowed to have children to neglect.
on Vick, the verdict is still out. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.
Brittney, well...she has committed no crime.....Unless Kev federline has custody of the children and you don't because of your actions....that should be criminal.
It all begins in the home.
Sandra
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The largest growing minority class in my hood is East Indian/Pakistani.
Hard working, bringing wealth with them. The high school has just added hindi to the curriculum.
Some people don't realize the systematic conditioning that America has had on the pysche of it's people.
Otherwise wealthy folk should know how to behave better.
Michael Vick shouldn't have people involved with illegal dog fighting.
Brittney spears shouldn't be allowed to have children to neglect.
on Vick, the verdict is still out. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.
Brittney, well...she has committed no crime.....Unless Kev federline has custody of the children and you don't because of your actions....that should be criminal.
It all begins in the home.
Sandra
Britney, not Brittney.
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colored people hold themselves down. this is abundantly clear growing up in new york city. one of the first things that jumps out is that black children who attempt to become educated are referred to as "uncle tom's and sell outs" by the black community.
how the fvck can black children aspire to become successful in that environment?
drkj must live on another planet........come to nyc and see how colored people HOLD THEMSELVES DOWN. no help is needed by any other race.....they do nicely on their own.
wake up to reality "dr".
HAHAH
Dr.Jake He tried to use the quotes to some way discredit your accomplishments..
Monster redneck...
in other news....It is hilarious how i can tell the level of exposure/education of an individual simply by the retarded comments they spew which are usually uninvestigated comments, simply passed down from other uneducated unexposed idiots.
This is a funny story about my own preconceived generalizations about white people.
I’m from Los Angeles California and I only saw well off, rich, successful white people. So I just thought that’s how all white people are. As you know, I went to Morehouse College in Atlanta GA (the south) and I got a totally different view of white people. Dude I would go to Wal-Mart and see like white people who I would refer to as “less fortunate”. Not bums but definitely not Ivy League material. I thought I was in Bizarro world. To see whites doing far worse then anyone I knew was an eye opener. And I was 18 when I found that out.
Just goes to show you, while still in your little box its is understandable to make dumb ass judgments because you aren’t exposed.
Just something to think about.
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HAHAH
Dr.Jake He tried to use the quotes to some way discredit your accomplishments..
Monster redneck...
in other news....It is hilarious how i can tell the level of exposure/education of an individual simply by the retarded comments they spew which are usually uninvestigated comments, simply passed down from other uneducated unexposed idiots.
This is a funny story about my own preconceived generalizations about white people.
I’m from Los Angeles California and I only saw well off, rich, successful white people. So I just thought that’s how all white people are. As you know, I went to Morehouse College in Atlanta GA (the south) and I got a totally different view of white people. Dude I would go to Wal-Mart and see like white people who I would refer to as “less fortunate”. Not bums but definitely not Ivy League material. I thought I was in Bizarro world. To see whites doing far worse then anyone I knew was an eye opener. And I was 18 when I found that out.
Just goes to show you, while still in your little box its is understandable to make dumb ass judgments because you aren’t exposed.
Just something to think about.
Poverty affects whites on a larger scale than it does blacks, mainly because they're the majority.
Here's the funny thing I've noticed: People never, ever, ever........ ever discuss poverty in whites. Bring up black people and there are a gajillion reasons/ecxuses: absentee fathers, teen pregnancy, small brains, big dicks, inferior to whites, slavery, rap music, dancing too much, no family values, Al Sharpton, etc... LOL!
I almost dropped a "W" bomb, LOL!
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Poverty affects whites on a larger scale than it does blacks, mainly because they're the majority.
Here's the funny thing I've noticed: People never, ever, ever........ ever discuss poverty in whites. Bring up black people and there are a gajillion reasons/ecxuses: absentee fathers, teen pregnancy, small brains, big dicks, inferior to whites, slavery, rap music, dancing too much, no family values, Al Sharpton, etc... LOL!
I almost dropped a "W" bomb, LOL!
hahahaahahaha....exactly ...Dude you know the reasons the poor whites are poor…DUH…. affirmative action and Mexicans are taking all their jobs…
HAHAHAHAHA monster contradictions…
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hahahaahahaha....exactly...Dude you know the reasons the poor whites are poor…DUH…. affirmative action and Mexicans are taking all their jobs…
HAHAHAHAHA monster contradictions…
You really have to wonder why people with every advantage don't succeed. ::)
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You really have to wonder why people with every advantage don't succeed. ::)
The same reason black people can't succeed.
It's the same reason the "white thrash" don't succeed.
It's the stigma of growing up in an environment, a culture of failure, of no intellectual challenge, where brawn is heralded more so than brains, where there is no tradition of higher learning, et al.
Having poor classes, whether they are black or white, is a gigantic economic waste for a nation like USA.
Imagine if we could get 25% of the people in these social groups to finish a higher education. Imagine what that would do to raise the Gross National Product. Not to mention the drop in crime rate, likely health improvement, dental improvement et al.
Instead of playing the blame game, black people, white people, and everyone, needs to address the situation.
Because everyone would be much better off if the poverty was erased and replaced by properly educated people.
Can it be done?
Is it time for a 21st century version of the New Deal, but this time with Higher Education at its focal point?
I think it's a grand idea at least. The vision of getting most of USA's youth into higher education in 10 years could completely change the situation, and be a big step away from the racial barriers that do exists today.
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Is it time for a 21st century version of the New Deal, but this time with Higher Education at its focal point?
I think it's a grand idea at least. The vision of getting most of USA's youth into higher education in 10 years could completely change the situation, and be a big step away from the racial barriers that do exists today.
higher education should not be the focal point, but rather elementary or primary education. Most people are already set in their ways by the time they get to higher education . . . You've got to get them early if you want to make a real difference.
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higher education should not be the focal point, but rather elementary or primary education. Most people are already set in their ways by the time they get to higher education . . . You've got to get them early if you want to make a real difference.
Very true. I forgot that part I guess.
The goal should be to get all these kids through higher education, but to do that, various of reforms may be necessary to hit the problems correctly.
Arnold is spot on when he mentions how important it is for everyone to be 100% in English. How to get that?
Perhaps legislate to make English first language in USA, and also test every 6 year old for English competence, those who can't cut it, will have to take extra English classes?
Then repeat at 9 years old.
I don't know, tough problems sometimes calls for tough solutions.
And tons of other reforms to raise the bar, to give USA an elite work force.
Today, USA recruits workforce with high education from other countries. Shouldn't have to be that way.
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Zack,
A New, New Deal won't work. Much as folks complain about poverty and people collecting unenjoyment a certain amount is required to keep inflation down. Just like illegal immigrants who work for pennies/day. No american would think about working as hard as they do for no money and we really can't afford lettuce at $10/head. :)
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Very true. I forgot that part I guess.
The goal should be to get all these kids through higher education, but to do that, various of reforms may be necessary to hit the problems correctly.
Arnold is spot on when he mentions how important it is for everyone to be 100% in English. How to get that?
Perhaps legislate to make English first language in USA, and also test every 6 year old for English competence, those who can't cut it, will have to take extra English classes?
hahaha, I wish it were like that..
But no, we're catering to Mexicans by having everything in spanish and having to press "1" for english. And you may think the United States has a universal literacy rate, but go to a black neighborhood, immigrant neighborhood and the percentage of people who can actually read and comprehend english is probably below 50%. For America as a whole it certainly isn't universal.
The only reforms that can help in the long run are to be put into place by blacks themselves. It starts at home.. They have to put more effort in trying to improve over playing the race card and whining.
Get rid of affirmative action and make everything merit based. Some people will be in so big of a hole that they'll have no choice but to change or rot at the bottom. You go to any NYC DMV office and the blacks working there are so rude.. Just horrible service, no formal manners. Makes you wonder how these people were employed there or are able to keep their jobs. It's because society allows them these mistakes, and maybe if society didn't, then they'd change or rot in hell.
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Blacks kids that attend asian elementery schools in NYC score much higher on math and english tests.. Change of mind, attitude, culture.. :)
If people are forced through adversity, then they can change.. I've noticed immigrants integrating less and less as of late.. Why? Because little enclaves have formed which allow them to keep bad habbits(their inferior cultures).
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Blacks kids that attend asian elementery schools in NYC score much higher on math and english tests.. Change of mind, attitude, culture.. :)
If people are forced through adversity, then they can change.. I've noticed immigrants integrating less and less as of late.. Why? Because little enclaves have formed which allow them to keep bad habbits(their inferior cultures).
Integration or failure.
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Blacks kids that attend asian elementery schools in NYC score much higher on math and english tests.. Change of mind, attitude, culture.. :)
Guess what? EVERY demographic does better in privatized schooling.
It has very little to do with "culture". There are several majority black and Hispanic Catholic high schools in Harlem and the Bronx that have college acceptance rates in the 80% bracket. I volunteered at a school in the Bronx called Cardinal Hayes a few years ago after I graduated. They have a college placement rate of 95%. That is well above the national average.
In one of Hedgehog's posts, he points out how America has to fill high skilled jobs with foreign labor. This is because the educational system here, as a whole, is fucked. Kids across the board are doing worse than ever. When black kids do poorly, it's an indictment on the "culture". When everyone else does poorly ,it's because the system is broken.
Bullshit.
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I've noticed immigrants integrating less and less as of late.. Why?
The incoming immigrants are different now. There was a period where the Southeast asians that immigrated here were the part of educated elite. Those days are done,and, unfortunately, a truer cross-section of those populations is going to emerge. The economic picture among them is going to look a lot more like Europe. :(
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I've noticed immigrants integrating less and less as of late.. Why? Because little enclaves have formed which allow them to keep bad habbits(their inferior cultures).
do you know the origin of the word "ghetto"? look it up . . .
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Integration or failure.
Resistance is futile.
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Kids across the board are doing worse than ever. When black kids do poorly, it's an indictment on the "culture". When everyone else does poorly ,it's because the system is broken.
according to what study are kids across the board doing worse than ever?
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according to what study are kids across the board doing worse than ever?
Al-gebra, wouldn't you agree that I've generally been pretty thorough in regards to making my points in this thread? Usually providing multiple links to support my positions or, at the very least, using easily verifiable examples? I've avoided using anecdotal evidence to form broad, misinformed generalizations, right? Even if you don't agree with my conclusions, I've at least been honest with the info I've used to form them, right?
I post all of this to say, I have provided a lot of documentation in this thread. If it were another point, I might be inclined to dig up a study to support that statement, but... I just don't feel like it. On the exceedingly rare occasions when I've been wrong, I've been man enough to admit it, but I've read several statistical accounts of America's declining educational system and I don't think that statement can be debated. If you are aware of something that contradicts my statement, feel free to post it and then we can hash it out.
Otherwise, I'm gonna have to say the option to believe that statement is yours. Believe it or not. I haven't made a habit of pulling facts out of my ass.
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The "black man" is making a comeback!
When a coked-out Lindsay Lohan was arrested for rampaging through the streets of LA in a stolen car, she reportedly blamed the incident on a nearby "black kid."
When Florida Rep Bob Allen was recently arrested for prowling for cock, he claimed he only did so because there were so many intimidating black men around!?!
I'm currently searching google images for the appropriate "race card" forum pic.
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HAHAH
Dr.Jake He tried to use the quotes to some way discredit your accomplishments..
Monster redneck...
in other news....It is hilarious how i can tell the level of exposure/education of an individual simply by the retarded comments they spew which are usually uninvestigated comments, simply passed down from other uneducated unexposed idiots.
This is a funny story about my own preconceived generalizations about white people.
I’m from Los Angeles California and I only saw well off, rich, successful white people. So I just thought that’s how all white people are. As you know, I went to Morehouse College in Atlanta GA (the south) and I got a totally different view of white people. Dude I would go to Wal-Mart and see like white people who I would refer to as “less fortunate”. Not bums but definitely not Ivy League material. I thought I was in Bizarro world. To see whites doing far worse then anyone I knew was an eye opener. And I was 18 when I found that out.
Just goes to show you, while still in your little box its is understandable to make dumb ass judgments because you aren’t exposed.
Just something to think about.
Big_mal,
I have friends in similar situations as yours. They grew up in Europe, and the only exposure they had to Blacks, were rich African students who studied in Europe. They simply assumed all Blacks were rich. After moving to North America, they got a huge shock, ...they discovered that not ALL Blacks came from rich educated families. :P
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The same reason black people can't succeed.
It's the same reason the "white thrash" don't succeed.
It's the stigma of growing up in an environment, a culture of failure, of no intellectual challenge, where brawn is heralded more so than brains, where there is no tradition of higher learning, et al.
Having poor classes, whether they are black or white, is a gigantic economic waste for a nation like USA.
Imagine if we could get 25% of the people in these social groups to finish a higher education. Imagine what that would do to raise the Gross National Product. Not to mention the drop in crime rate, likely health improvement, dental improvement et al.
Instead of playing the blame game, black people, white people, and everyone, needs to address the situation.
Because everyone would be much better off if the poverty was erased and replaced by properly educated people.
Can it be done?
Is it time for a 21st century version of the New Deal, but this time with Higher Education at its focal point?
I think it's a grand idea at least. The vision of getting most of USA's youth into higher education in 10 years could completely change the situation, and be a big step away from the racial barriers that do exists today.
I find your choice of words interesting. When refering to low achieving Black people... you refer to them as Blacks.
When refering to low achieving White people... your refer to them as 'White trash'. Why the qualifyer?
Why not say "the reason Black trash doesn't..." along with "the reason white trash doesn't..."?
Why not say "the reason Black people don't..." along with "the reason white people don't..."?
I find it interesting that you can so easily compare the two. Why not compare apples with apples instead?
Making no accusations mind you, ...simply observing a subtle even if unintentioned connotation in your words.
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I find your choice of words interesting. When refering to low achieving Black people... you refer to them as Blacks.
When refering to low achieving White people... your refer to them as 'White trash'. Why the qualifyer?
Why not say "the reason Black trash doesn't..." along with "the reason white trash doesn't..."?
Why not say "the reason Black people don't..." along with "the reason white people don't..."?
I find it interesting that you can so easily compare the two. Why not compare apples with apples instead?
Making no accusations mind you, ...simply observing a subtle even if unintentioned connotation in your words.
It's not racism but a defense mechanism. The 'trash' connotation changes the degree to which middle class whites identify with lazy underperforming whites. Most wouldn't identify with blacks to any extent so the 'trash' qualifier isn't needed. It can also be used in a positive manner to identify with black people, e.g. "He's really bright!" :)
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Al-gebra, wouldn't you agree that I've generally been pretty thorough in regards to making my points in this thread? Usually providing multiple links to support my positions or, at the very least, using easily verifiable examples? I've avoided using anecdotal evidence to form broad, misinformed generalizations, right? Even if you don't agree with my conclusions, I've at least been honest with the info I've used to form them, right?
I post all of this to say, I have provided a lot of documentation in this thread. If it were another point, I might be inclined to dig up a study to support that statement, but... I just don't feel like it. On the exceedingly rare occasions when I've been wrong, I've been man enough to admit it, but I've read several statistical accounts of America's declining educational system and I don't think that statement can be debated. If you are aware of something that contradicts my statement, feel free to post it and then we can hash it out.
Otherwise, I'm gonna have to say the option to believe that statement is yours. Believe it or not. I haven't made a habit of pulling facts out of my ass.
you may not make a habit of pulling facts out of your ass . . . but on this one you are wrong.
Ask any admissions counselor about what it takes to get into an elite college or university these days. these kids are far more accomplished than their parents generation.
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Big_mal,
I have friends in similar situations as yours. They grew up in Europe, and the only exposure they had to Blacks, were rich African students who studied in Europe. They simply assumed all Blacks were rich. After moving to North America, they got a huge shock, ...they discovered that not ALL Blacks came from rich educated families. :P
::)
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you may not make a habit of pulling facts out of your ass . . . but on this one you are wrong.
Ask any admissions counselor about what it takes to get into an elite college or university these days. these kids are far more accomplished than their parents generation.
Yeah, compare a highschool in Long Island with one in Queens.. A world of difference.
It's culture. Ghetto areas with freshly arrived immigrants and black folks will have shitty schools. But go to a decent neighborhood and the kids will generally know their math and writing.
I went to a NYC public highschool and also a highschool in the Tampa area in Florida. It's the stupid ghetto idiots that dragged down maybe 10 intelligent kids out of a class of 35(in nyc).
In Florida, it was nothing like NY. It all depends on the area.
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I find your choice of words interesting. When refering to low achieving Black people... you refer to them as Blacks.
When refering to low achieving White people... your refer to them as 'White trash'. Why the qualifyer?
Why not say "the reason Black trash doesn't..." along with "the reason white trash doesn't..."?
Why not say "the reason Black people don't..." along with "the reason white people don't..."?
I find it interesting that you can so easily compare the two. Why not compare apples with apples instead?
Making no accusations mind you, ...simply observing a subtle even if unintentioned connotation in your words.
Well, you're right. At least partly right.
Lets agree that the unsuccessful whites are a much smaller group percentagewise than the black ditto.
And lets also agree that culture, not race, is the reason for these differences.
Ie, most brought up in an intellectual and safe environment, will have a solid intellectual foundation once he/she reaches adulthood. And will be a respectful and decent person.
But you're also making a slight mistake in that you're not recognizing the obvious difference between the community and the white community.
What it all boils down to:
In general, there are some problems in the white community.
In general, there are a lot of problems in the black community.
Of course, one could also argue that there are bad, and there are good citizens in USA, regardless of the ethnicity. And then color of skin wouldn't be an aspect.
We could use trailer homing vs picket fences, as variables for bad citizens/good citizens, eg. Or regional differences.
But in this particular topic, we're discussing the ethnic differences, and how those affect society. And what to do.
This is a controversial topic, although for the first time, except for a few posts, I think this discussion has stayed fairly on-topic and has avoided the usual racist bullshit slurs.
Get it?
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It's not racism but a defense mechanism. The 'trash' connotation changes the degree to which middle class whites identify with lazy underperforming whites. Most wouldn't identify with blacks to any extent so the 'trash' qualifier isn't needed. It can also be used in a positive manner to identify with black people, e.g. "He's really bright!" :)
Good point.
I don't like to get too much off topic, but the same can be said for numerous things.
Like how some people (both black and white) thinks that black people somehow have "rhytm", can dance particularly well.
Or how black people can sing with "soul". ::)
Hispanic people: "Hot tempered".
It's all bullshit.
Btw, you know what Chris Rock called those underperforming blacks. ;)
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do hundreds-probably thousands-of years of culturing create traits that are "essential" (so much part of a being that all the education in the world might not have an impact for generations to come)?
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Poor white and others groups don't cause problems nearly at the rate or ghetto black and hispanics. I speak from experience through my uncle who was beaten and had his grocery store looted by guess who.. :-\
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Poor white and others groups don't cause problems nearly at the rate or ghetto black and hispanics. I speak from experience through my uncle who was beaten and had his grocery store looted by guess who.. :-\
Jews?
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Well, you're right. At least partly right.
Lets agree that the unsuccessful whites are a much smaller group percentagewise than the black ditto.
And lets also agree that culture, not race, is the reason for these differences.
Ie, most brought up in an intellectual and safe environment, will have a solid intellectual foundation once he/she reaches adulthood. And will be a respectful and decent person.
But you're also making a slight mistake in that you're not recognizing the obvious difference between the community and the white community.
What it all boils down to:
In general, there are some problems in the white community.
In general, there are a lot of problems in the black community.
Of course, one could also argue that there are bad, and there are good citizens in USA, regardless of the ethnicity. And then color of skin wouldn't be an aspect.
We could use trailer homing vs picket fences, as variables for bad citizens/good citizens, eg. Or regional differences.
But in this particular topic, we're discussing the ethnic differences, and how those affect society. And what to do.
This is a controversial topic, although for the first time, except for a few posts, I think this discussion has stayed fairly on-topic and has avoided the usual racist bullshit slurs.
Get it?
I get everything you're saying, ...however I disagree on this. I don't believe we're discussing ethnic differences.
I think what is truly at the heart of this is cultural and socio-economic differences, and the subsequent fallout.
The fact that these differences can and quite often appear along race lines, especially in the USA, has nothing to do with race other than to the extent that tradition & legislation have impacted culture & socio-economics along racial lines.
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do hundreds-probably thousands-of years of culturing create traits that are "essential" (so much part of a being that all the education in the world might not have an impact for generations to come)?
I think only to the extent that these are passed on from generation to generation through nurture, NOT nature.
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Poor white and others groups don't cause problems nearly at the rate or ghetto black and hispanics. I speak from experience through my uncle who was beaten and had his grocery store looted by guess who.. :-\
{LOL} Not to make light of your uncle's misfortune, ...but what do you expect when you are located in a ghetto with the majority being blacks and hispanics? you're going to see a higher percentage of crimes committed by blacks and hispanics. Move into a different social milieu, that is majority caucausian, ...you're again going to find the same thing... the majority of crimes will be committed by caucasians. Crime is crime, and it's underlying cause is not race.
Really CJ, ...you should move to a better neighbourhood. ::)
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{LOL} Not to make light of your uncle's misfortune, ...but what do you expect when you are located in a ghetto with the majority being blacks and hispanics? you're going to see a higher percentage of crimes committed by blacks and hispanics. Move into a different social milieu, that is majority caucausian, ...you're again going to find the same thing... the majority of crimes will be committed by caucasians. Crime is crime, and it's underlying cause is not race.
Really CJ, ...you should move to a better neighbourhood. ::)
Have you ever shopped at one of those neighborhood places? They can be a little pricey.
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I get everything you're saying, ...however I disagree on this. I don't believe we're discussing ethnic differences.
I think what is truly at the heart of this is cultural and socio-economic differences, and the subsequent fallout.
The fact that these differences can and quite often appear along race lines, especially in the USA, has nothing to do with race other than to the extent that tradition & legislation have impacted culture & socio-economics along racial lines.
I see now that I formulated myself wrong.
I meant to state that we're discussing the problems that are overrepresented in different ethnic groups, more specifically the Afro-American one, not differences of the ethnicities.
Meaning that the problems are not stemming from the ethnicity, but rather, as you point out as well, cultural and socio-economical differences.
Be that as it may, the problems with ghetto and thug mentality exists, and the public schooling isn't on par with the private schools.
Once public schools are equal to private schools, equal opportunities will be even an issue.
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Be that as it may, the problems with ghetto and thug mentality exists, and the public schooling isn't on par with the private schools.
Once public schools are equal to private schools, equal opportunities will be even an issue.
not going to happen. the elites have an interest in perpetuating america's highly stratified class system, and the private schools help them maintain their edge. For $40,000/yr, they will train your kids to present themselves in a way that's attractive to the Harvards of the world.
The rest of America for some strange reason has decided that all Americans are middle class. It's practically impossible these days to find someone who will acknowledge being anything else. So, they don't acknowledge that they're falling behind, and do not vote in people that will allocate money to education . . . b/c the local public is already "good enough."
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{LOL} Not to make light of your uncle's misfortune, ...but what do you expect when you are located in a ghetto with the majority being blacks and hispanics? you're going to see a higher percentage of crimes committed by blacks and hispanics. Move into a different social milieu, that is majority caucausian, ...you're again going to find the same thing... the majority of crimes will be committed by caucasians. Crime is crime, and it's underlying cause is not race.
Really CJ, ...you should move to a better neighbourhood. ::)
I'd rate parts of jamaica, queens as middle class. You walk past jamaica avenue and you are in the ghetto. I live above hillside towards st. johns university where it's middle to upper middleclass. I go to park my brother's car because of tuesday morning road cleaning and there's some piece of shit asking me if I have a quarter, or I'm waiting for the subway there's some asswipe preaching on the platform. You cannot get away, whether you are on park avenue or where I live.. Just the other day, some black guy asked me for a light and I said I didn't have one, and he got all bitchy and then he started saying random stuff I couldn't understand.. I blew my fuse and told him to fuck off.
Move into a different social milieu, that is majority caucausian, ...you're again going to find the same thing... the majority of crimes will be committed by caucasians. Crime is crime, and it's underlying cause is not race.
Was in Florida for a year and I didn't feel threatened like I do now when I'm on the street. Read my e-lips, the majority of racism I've faced = from black and hispanic folks.
And aren't more than half of the crimes in the US commited by black people? Don't they make up about 10% of the population? Bad justice system or not, that number is high. Let's just say the margin of error for convicting blacks is 5%, they'd still have higher rates of incarcerations than any other group.
And Jag, daddy doesn't approve of you telling me to move.
(http://info.detnews.com/dn/pix/2005/11/03/asec/2005-1102-ctj-Rosa089_11-03-2005_7L9GLDC.jpg)
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not going to happen. the elites have an interest in perpetuating america's highly stratified class system, and the private schools help them maintain their edge. For $40,000/yr, they will train your kids to present themselves in a way that's attractive to the Harvards of the world.
The rest of America for some strange reason has decided that all Americans are middle class. It's practically impossible these days to find someone who will acknowledge being anything else. So, they don't acknowledge that they're falling behind, and do not vote in people that will allocate money to education . . . b/c the local public is already "good enough."
In 1000% total agreement with you here.
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And Jag, daddy doesn't approve of you telling me to move.
I once told someone that I'd never even consider calling you a child, ...I take it back. Grow up! CHILD!
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In 1000% total agreement with you here.
don't agree w me. ever. it makes me feel like a bad person.
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don't agree w me. ever. it makes me feel like a bad person.
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/but.gif) ...you are a bad person. :P
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not going to happen. the elites have an interest in perpetuating america's highly stratified class system, and the private schools help them maintain their edge. For $40,000/yr, they will train your kids to present themselves in a way that's attractive to the Harvards of the world.
The rest of America for some strange reason has decided that all Americans are middle class. It's practically impossible these days to find someone who will acknowledge being anything else. So, they don't acknowledge that they're falling behind, and do not vote in people that will allocate money to education . . . b/c the local public is already "good enough."
Why does everyone thing they're middle class? Incomes aren't keeping up with the cost of living so the media has artificially lowered what income is considered middle class. Without doing that.. people would consume less. Middle class used to be sneaking on 50-70K/year. Now... people making half that are called middle class and using debt/credit/inheritance/parents to make up the difference.
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I once told someone that I'd never even consider calling you a child, ...I take it back. Grow up! CHILD!
It was a joke. ::) I think you're a good poster. Probably my favorite female poster along with CQ.
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It was a joke. ::) I think you're a good poster. Probably my favorite female poster along with CQ.
did you just fall and hit your head?
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did you just fall and hit your head?
I don't agree with her, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't amused.