Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Female Info Boards => Womens Physique, Bodybuilding, Wellness and Training => Topic started by: ripitupbaby on August 23, 2007, 01:04:49 PM
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There are soooo many exercises to work your back, it's hard to nail down which ones are the best. And it's easy to vary the workouts quite a bit from week to week, which is good to keep your body guessing and your muscles working and growing.
The key is to switch up your back training all the time in order to really stimulate growth in your back muscles. Easier said than done.
I actually could use some recommendations on how to vary my workouts, because like everything else lately, I have fallen into a "comfort zone" with my training and am suffering from a bit of workout inertia.
For the most part, I structure my back workouts around pull exercises and rows. I usually alternate between a pull down exercise and a row. I do four exercises, 3-4 sets each, and sometimes throw in a fifth exercise if I am feeling so inclined.
I usually focus on the upper and middle back, as I save my lower back for leg day (squats and deadlifts). Occasionally on leg day, I will add a specific lower back exercise if I have the time, but I don't really focus too much time on the lower back on back day, mostly because I don't want my lower back to be sore when leg day rolls around.
I ALWAYS incorporate a wide grip pull down and a low/medium row into my back workout, no matter how I may vary the other exercises.
A typical back workout for me will look something like this:
---warmup with 2 sets of weight-assisted pull ups
---wide grip pull downs - 4 sets
---Mid row (cable) - 3 sets
---Close grip pull down or underhanded pull down - 3 sets
---Seated Low Row (machine) - 3 sets
I LOVE the Nautilus Compound Row machine, so I will almost always finish my workout with 3 sets on this.
Quite often, I will use the cable to do a straight arm pullover sort of like the ribcage pullovers. I usually superset these with one of the first two exercises. I can't decide whether or not these really do much for my back, as they feel like they work the crap out of my arms sometimes, particularly the triceps.
Some variations I like:
---Very occasionally (like never lately), I will do wide grip pull-ups instead of pull downs.
---Instead of a mid-row on cables, I will do a bent over barbell row or bent over dumbell rows. I prefer dumbell rows because you can do one arm at a time and go heavy.
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So here's what I am wondering...
I have pretty good detail in my back, but I am lacking in thickness, particularly in the upper back. I need wider lats!
How do I accomplish this during the off-season? How should I structure my back workout to maximize growth during the off-season?
Is it all about pull-ups? Is there a big difference btw wide grip and close grip? Is there a big difference between pull ups and pull downs?
I need a bigger back! :P
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why no barbell or DB rows?
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why no barbell or DB rows?
I don't do them as often as I prolly should, but sometimes I do them instead of some of the cable rows.
I tend to fall back on cable rows more.
I KNOW I should do dumbell rows more than I should. But I'm not so sure what difference it REALLY makes in terms of growing my back.
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my back changed a lot when I started doing deads.
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I don't do them as often as I prolly should, but sometimes I do them instead of some of the cable rows.
I tend to fall back on cable rows more.
I KNOW I should do dumbell rows more than I should. But I'm not so sure what difference it REALLY makes in terms of growing my back.
barbell rows are even better.
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Man good questions and points ripitup. So true there a million things to do to mix it up. Lats being a big muscle can take a lot of abuse and I also do about 16-18 sets for them. I do think pull ups are one of the best exercises for them also, I like to use a little wider than shoulder width grip for these as I feel it allows more ROM than the really wide grip pull. Offseason my BW is plenty for these but when lighter I will strap 25-45 lbs on. Man there is nothing badder than to see a woman slam out some good pull ups, alright there are things badder but its pretty bad ass :)
You can vary your training in lots of ways. Switching the sequence of the same exercises is a good way, lets say one time you start with rows the other start with pulls. You could do all rows or mostly rows, all pulls, lighter fast paced pumping, hard heavy longer rest sets, less sets, more sets. one arm-two arms, I usually decide what I'm gonna do as I go and as what equipment is available.
I have said before one of the routines I did for a while when younger was just 6 work sets each of pull ups and BB bent rows. It was a good routine I thought cause it hit the whole back with the 2 best back exercises IMO.
Hand position should also be considered. I always use a thumbless grip (false grip) for back work as it helps get get the biceps out of the exercises some. a pronated grip will less involve your bis, the neutral grip and the supinated (reverse grip) more so but the are all also good ways to vary your training.
I have and still do train back heavy, but am now trying to still keep it heavy but feel the exercise more. Have gone up to 315 on these BB rows but the form was not pretty and it felt like my back was gonna shear off at the spine :'( 225 feels good and I can get a good squeeze at the top, so I'm sticking with that weight for a while, to see how it works. Feels good to hold the pause at the top for a second. The t-bar is also great. I like to pull the weight to my navel for most type rows like this. I like DB rows too and they get you working hard can feel these good if don't go too crazy with the Lbs.
Rip I agree your back looks great! That rear double bicep you posted was absolutely fantastic. You look more like a middle weight in that pose, I haven't seen all your poses... yet :) but man that is a very good one for you!! When you reach your goals it will even be more bad ass!!
Lots of people have a hard time feeling their lats working. For this concentrate, pull with your elbows and pose them babies. Get that chest up and squeeze those lats.
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Man good questions and points ripitup. So true there a million things to do to mix it up. Lats being a big muscle can take a lot of abuse and I also do about 16-18 sets for them. I do think pull ups are one of the best exercises for them also, I like to use a little wider than shoulder width grip for these as I feel it allows more ROM than the really wide grip pull. Offseason my BW is plenty for these but when lighter I will strap 25-45 lbs on. Man there is nothing badder than to see a woman slam out some good pull ups, alright there are things badder but its pretty bad ass :)
You can vary your training in lots of ways. Switching the sequence of the same exercises is a good way, lets say one time you start with rows the other start with pulls. You could do all rows or mostly rows, all pulls, lighter fast paced pumping, hard heavy longer rest sets, less sets, more sets. one arm-two arms, I usually decide what I'm gonna do as I go and as what equipment is available.
I have said before one of the routines I did for a while when younger was just 6 work sets each of pull ups and BB bent rows. It was a good routine I thought cause it hit the whole back with the 2 best back exercises IMO.
Hand position should also be considered. I always use a thumbless grip (false grip) for back work as it helps get get the biceps out of the exercises some. a pronated grip will less involve your bis, the neutral grip and the supinated (reverse grip) more so but the are all also good ways to vary your training.
I have and still do train back heavy, but am now trying to still keep it heavy but feel the exercise more. Have gone up to 315 on these BB rows but the form was not pretty and it felt like my back was gonna shear off at the spine :'( 225 feels good and I can get a good squeeze at the top, so I'm sticking with that weight for a while, to see how it works. Feels good to hold the pause at the top for a second. The t-bar is also great. I like to pull the weight to my navel for most type rows like this. I like DB rows too and they get you working hard can feel these good if don't go too crazy with the Lbs.
Rip I agree your back looks great! That rear double bicep you posted was absolutely fantastic. You look more like a middle weight in that pose, I haven't seen all your poses... yet :) but man that is a very good one for you!! When you reach your goals it will even be more bad ass!!
Lots of people have a hard time feeling their lats working. For this concentrate, pull with your elbows and pose them babies. Get that chest up and squeeze those lats.
Thanks for the info! I forgot to mention the importance of the grip. I use a thumbless grip too for the most part, to minimize the bicep work. Of course, it makes everything tougher, but that's the point!
I am going to work on the pull-ups during the offseason as well. I think my bodyweight will be more than sufficient IF I can even pull that lol.
I've heard that I should be pulling bodyweight on the lat pulldowns as well, but it seems to me that the machines are all different in terms of the actual weight being pulled. I pull 120 and 130 on the pulldown set up at my gym, which is just about bodyweight right now, I think.
I'll have to dig up a decent pic of my back lat spread, as I still feel like I could use a little more thickness.
My upper back still looks a little figure-girlish to me. :P
LUV, In that pic you posted above, I want the part of my back right under my armpits to be wider!! Is that all about the pull-ups and pull-downs?
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my back changed a lot when I started doing deads.
Bent legged deads for lower back or straight legged deads for hams/glutes (and lower back of course)? I do straights as part of my leg workout but no deads for my back workout. Do you think this exercise improved your back overall or just the lower back?
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Thanks for the info! I forgot to mention the importance of the grip. I use a thumbless grip too for the most part, to minimize the bicep work. Of course, it makes everything tougher, but that's the point!
I am going to work on the pull-ups during the offseason as well. I think my bodyweight will be more than sufficient IF I can even pull that lol.
I've heard that I should be pulling bodyweight on the lat pulldowns as well, but it seems to me that the machines are all different in terms of the actual weight being pulled. I pull 120 and 130 on the pulldown set up at my gym, which is just about bodyweight right now, I think.
I'll have to dig up a decent pic of my back lat spread, as I still feel like I could use a little more thickness.
My upper back still looks a little figure-girlish to me. :P
LUV, In that pic you posted above, I want the part of my back right under my armpits to be wider!! Is that all about the pull-ups and pull-downs?
Sure some more back width is always good :) and it would never hurt. Well I need to bring my back up too and am not sure I have the answers but yes pull ups and pull downs are the ones they say mainly hit the width. I usually go a little less on pull downs than BW for pull downs I like to really try and feel them. On both pull ups and downs I try to get my elbows back a little and pull with the lats as much as I can, trying to keep the shoulders and arms out of it. Its kind of funny but sometimes people I see will use so much weight on these they are practically laying down on these and using so much lower back I don't see how it could be working to good for them. The hammer strength pull down machine is pretty good too. Did you ever try that funky free motion one it is a little different and kind of cool once in a while.
I think a solid routine emphasising the areas you want to improve will get you there where you wanna be. Your back has good thickness and separation I'm thinking when you can do 10-12 pull ups you will be there. :P
Do you use straps? If not I think you should, you have very good arms these will let you think less about the grip and just holding on and more about contracting and pounding your lats.
Off topic but your traps and delts are awesome as shown in that pic 8)
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Sure some more back width is always good :) and it would never hurt. Well I need to bring my back up too and am not sure I have the answers but yes pull ups and pull downs are the ones they say mainly hit the width. I usually go a little less on pull downs than BW for pull downs I like to really try and feel them. On both pull ups and downs I try to get my elbows back a little and pull with the lats as much as I can, trying to keep the shoulders and arms out of it. Its kind of funny but sometimes people I see will use so much weight on these they are practically laying down on these and using so much lower back I don't see how it could be working to good for them. The hammer strength pull down machine is pretty good too. Did you ever try that funky free motion one it is a little different and kind of cool once in a while.
I think a solid routine emphasising the areas you want to improve will get you there where you wanna be. Your back has good thickness and separation I'm thinking when you can do 10-12 pull ups you will be there. :P
Do you use straps? If not I think you should, you have very good arms these will let you think less about the grip and just holding on and more about contracting and pounding your lats.
Off topic but your traps and delts are awesome as shown in that pic 8)
I do like the Hammer Strength machines, but not so much the Free Motion ones.
The Free Motion ones I have seen are like the one below, right? I'm not a big fan, but I'm not sure why.
I should probably do more of them or the Hammer Strength, along with dumbell rows, cuz I am so right-side dominant.
I DO use straps for a lot of my back exercises, mostly because I lose my grip way before I exhaust my back.
I can get a lot more done with straps for sure.
I ALWAYS try to remember to keep my chest lifted UP when I do back work, so that I don't end up laying down or swinging my upper body alot, etc.
When I do pull downs, I try to pretend that there is a string attached from the top of the cable pull down to the middle of my chest, and I don't lean back too far at all.
10-12 pullups on my own, huh? Wide grip? I should be able to do regular pullups pretty easily, but I can add the wide grips to my list for this off-season.
I'll have to dig up a lat spread pic later.
Your lat spread pic is in another thread, but feel free to add updated ones to this thread as you diet down. 8)
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if i were you i would give chins/pull ups some serious work and make that my first and most important exercise and see what that would do for width for a few months. you could for example experience with negative-only chins lowering yourself for several seconds.
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Chins/pull-ups. Lots of heavy rows.
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OK, so I am gathering that chinups are a must lol...
Bluto, I sometimes do the negatives on the weight assisted chin up machine, they are awesome!
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I do like the Hammer Strength machines, but not so much the Free Motion ones.
The Free Motion ones I have seen are like the one below, right? I'm not a big fan, but I'm not sure why.
I should probably do more of them or the Hammer Strength, along with dumbell rows, cuz I am so right-side dominant.
I DO use straps for a lot of my back exercises, mostly because I lose my grip way before I exhaust my back.
I can get a lot more done with straps for sure.
I ALWAYS try to remember to keep my chest lifted UP when I do back work, so that I don't end up laying down or swinging my upper body alot, etc.
When I do pull downs, I try to pretend that there is a string attached from the top of the cable pull down to the middle of my chest, and I don't lean back too far at all.
10-12 pullups on my own, huh? Wide grip? I should be able to do regular pullups pretty easily, but I can add the wide grips to my list for this off-season.
I'll have to dig up a lat spread pic later.
Your lat spread pic is in another thread, but feel free to add updated ones to this thread as you diet down. 8)
Yeah rip that is the machine :), I only tried it a few times it pulls from an unusual angle that I never felt before :-\ Not sure if I like it either but it is something different.
Yep wide grip chins with palms forward are a must for your routine.
Oh you can be sure there will be more pics ;)
if i were you i would give chins/pull ups some serious work and make that my first and most important exercise and see what that would do for width for a few months. you could for example experience with negative-only chins lowering yourself for several seconds.
I think I am gonna try this for a while myself, sounds like a good idea!
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Yeah rip that is the machine :), I only tried it a few times it pulls from an unusual angle that I never felt before :-\ Not sure if I like it either but it is something different.
Yep wide grip chins with palms forward are a must for your routine.
Oh you can be sure there will be more pics ;)
I think I am gonna try this for a while myself, sounds like a good idea!
Sweet. Your back looks great lol, your legs are AWESOME. 8)
OK I owe ya one...
:)
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OK, so I am gathering that chinups are a must lol...
Bluto, I sometimes do the negatives on the weight assisted chin up machine, they are awesome!
People generally avoid chinups, that should tell you something :)
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Sweet. Your back looks great lol, your legs are AWESOME. 8)
OK I owe ya one...
:)
Thanks :)
I was flat for that show will be more full for this upcomming one. Was told I need to get my hands down more near my waist in the front lat spread and I agree.
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Lots of people have a hard time feeling their lats working.
The problem is that you can't see your back. So, it's harder to know what exactly is going on.
One thing you can do is read anatomy books and really learn the area. Once you've done this for awhile, you'll be better able to visualize the area and establish a greater mind-muscle link.
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The problem is that you can't see your back. So, it's harder to know what exactly is going on.
One thing you can do is read anatomy books and really learn the area. Once you've done this for awhile, you'll be better able to visualize the area and establish a greater mind-muscle link.
Great points! I do like to check out the anatomy books as they will give good information about how the different muscles affect movement, and you can incorporate this into your training.
http://www.humankinetics.com/products/showproduct.cfm?isbn=0736048138
http://books.google.com/books?id=YTdsosIQrv4C&dq=&pg=PP1&ots=mUMHaxaVfx&sig=oJCb6QtBTu0lELG_MBLmOEWZ15s&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fhl%3Den%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dweight%2Btraining%2Banatomy%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title
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All very good points. 8)
I'm gonna hit the chin ups for sure. Bluto's right, most people avoid them cuz they are hard, which means they work lol.
That anatomy book looks pretty cool, and the mind-muscle link is totally important.
I was doing a training interview with my bud Blockhead in Chicago, and he asked me to discuss how I incorporate the mind-muscle link during my training. It totally came out of the blue, I was not expecting that question at all...and I completely froze like a deer in headlights and started cracking up. :D
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if you can do badass, weighted chins...hats off to you
ps nice backs:
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Bent legged deads for lower back or straight legged deads for hams/glutes (and lower back of course)? I do straights as part of my leg workout but no deads for my back workout. Do you think this exercise improved your back overall or just the lower back?
bent leg from the floor, gave me some thickness.
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OK luv baby, :-*...although after seeing the pics that Meddie posted, I'd prefer for my back to look more like Andrulla's. 8)
I knew that back thickness would be my biggest challenge during the off-season when i decided to switch from figure to BB, but if I can make as much progress this year as I did last year, then I will be happy.
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(can I borrow your hamstrings?)
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(can I borrow your hamstrings?)
Sure, if you can even them out for me. As you can see from the pics, my right hammy is way bigger than my left. :-\
That's something I need to work on this year too.
Can i borrow your back thickness? Actually, can I just HAVE it, I don't think I want to give it back. ;D
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How is the back training going Rip? Any new pics?
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How is the back training going Rip? Any new pics?
It's going OK, thanks for asking.
I have been a slacker for a while now and am trying to get my shit together for a very productive off-season.
Believe it or not, I am still receiving and sorting through all of the pics I took in Chicago and NY earlier this summer when I was still nice and lean. Plenty of those pics floating around...but things have changed considerably with my physique since then, so I haven't been taking very many pics lately lol...maybe once the off-season gets rolling, depending on how things go.
Back training will be a priority this off-season, although I am thinking about doing a few bench meets, and may be switching alot of things up with my training to focus on maximizing my bench press for the next few months.
:)
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Sure, if you can even them out for me. As you can see from the pics, my right hammy is way bigger than my left. :-\
That's something I need to work on this year too.
Can i borrow your back thickness? Actually, can I just HAVE it, I don't think I want to give it back. ;D
Thats a thick back.
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Believe it or not, I am still receiving and sorting through all of the pics I took in Chicago and NY earlier this summer when I was still nice and lean.
Did you get fat Rip? Why would you do something like that? How much weight have you gained?
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Did you get fat Rip? Why would you do something like that? How much weight have you gained?
hahahaaaa....
I'm eating and drinking and partying and doing all of those things you told me I should be doing during my contest prep. :P
I'm not terribly fat per se, but everything feels fat when you have been contest lean.
I won't be divulging how much weight I have gained, but I've been here before.
I look like an off-season bodybuilder...which is very likely too fat by your standards. ::)
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hahahaaaa....
I'm eating and drinking and partying and doing all of those things you told me I should be doing during my contest prep. :P
I'm not terribly fat per se, but everything feels fat when you have been contest lean.
I won't be divulging how much weight I have gained, but I've been here before.
I look like an off-season bodybuilder...which is very likely too fat by your standards. ::)
150?
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OK luv baby, :-*...although after seeing the pics that Meddie posted, I'd prefer for my back to look more like Andrulla's. 8)
I knew that back thickness would be my biggest challenge during the off-season when i decided to switch from figure to BB, but if I can make as much progress this year as I did last year, then I will be happy.
Nice!! :-* You were IN SHAPE for that show!! Dry and full great work on the conditioning. The rear Dbl bicep is an awesome pose for you for all kinds of reasons :P I really like how you can evaluate your own physique and then go after what you have to do. There is no doubt in my mind that you will bring your back up this offseason and reach your goals. It looks great now and I know will only get better.
Remember this Rip Baby, the women who you will be competing against in the nationals are in the gym right now balls to the wall with the same thing in mind....what are you gonna do about that?
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Remember this Rip Baby, the women who you will be competing against in the nationals are in the gym right now balls to the wall with the same thing in mind....what are you gonna do about that?
She is going to out post them, I'll tell you that much!
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150?
NO, that would be a record for me.
I was 123 when I took those pics with The Beast in NYC last month (July 15), and I was still quite lean then. I haven't weighed myself since then LOL but I would be willing to bet that I've gained another 10 pounds easily since then. ;D
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NO, that would be a record for me.
I was 123 when I took those pics with The Beast in NYC last month (July 15), and I was still quite lean then. I haven't weighed myself since then LOL but I would be willing to bet that I've gained another 10 pounds easily since then. ;D
Well, thats not fat. 133 is a little plump, but not fat ;)
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Nice!! :-* You were IN SHAPE for that show!! Dry and full great work on the conditioning. The rear Dbl bicep is an awesome pose for you for all kinds of reasons :P I really like how you can evaluate your own physique and then go after what you have to do. There is no doubt in my mind that you will bring your back up this offseason and reach your goals. It looks great now and I know will only get better.
Remember this Rip Baby, the women who you will be competing against in the nationals are in the gym right now balls to the wall with the same thing in mind....what are you gonna do about that?
Thanks Luv baby! I hear ya man, that's exactly why I am trying to get my shit together NOW. I need to get ahead of the game!! I think about that quite a bit when I am feeling lazy. :)
She is going to out post them, I'll tell you that much!
Look who's talking... ::)
Where's your back shot danielson? You are the trainer of the next Mr. Getbig, so I'd love to hear some of your advice about back training as well. :)
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Look who's talking... ::)
Where's your back shot danielson? You are the trainer of the next Mr. Getbig, so I'd love to hear some of your advice about back training as well. :)
Calm down now killer, if you want some much needed advice all you had to do is ask. ;D
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Well, thats not fat. 133 is a little plump, but not fat ;)
I'll give you that..."pleasantly plump" ;D
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Calm down now killer, if you want some much needed advice all you had to do is ask. ;D
;D, I love using that, for all the tough guys.
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Thanks Luv baby! I hear ya man, that's exactly why I am trying to get my shit together NOW. I need to get ahead of the game!! I think about that quite a bit when I am feeling lazy. :)
No problem rip you can count on me to help keep you on track :)
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Well did back on Tuesday and am still SORE. Took Bluto's advice and concentrated on width exercises. I also adjusted my hand position a little wider on the pull ups and downs.
Wide grip pull ups 5x10-12 at the end of the sets for the last 3 reps or so I did a nice and slow negative, ouch. Still just using my BW about 205lbs as I get lighter I will need to add weight. Last set I did about 5 forced reps.
Seated cable rows 5x8-12
Hammer reverse grip pull downs 4x10-12 its kind of an odd exercises that I don't do often but felt hard so I think I will do it more LOL
Wide grip pull downs 4x10-12 I stay pretty light, (not that at that point I could have gone heavy :P) on these just trying to feel the lats working.
Cross bench DB pullovers 3x10-12 I really like these and should probally do them more. People say they feel them in their chest most, I don't and can really feel them pumping my lats up. A good finishing movement.
For the Arnold fans :)
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Well did back on Tuesday and am still SORE. Took Bluto's advice and concentrated on width exercises. I also adjusted my hand position a little wider on the pull ups and downs.
Wide grip pull ups 5x10-12 at the end of the sets for the last 3 reps or so I did a nice and slow negative, ouch. Still just using my BW about 205lbs as I get lighter I will need to add weight. Last set I did about 5 forced reps.
Seated cable rows 5x8-12
Hammer reverse grip pull downs 4x10-12 its kind of an odd exercises that I don't do often but felt hard so I think I will do it more LOL
Wide grip pull downs 4x10-12 I stay pretty light, (not that at that point I could have gone heavy :P) on these just trying to feel the lats working.
Cross bench DB pullovers 3x10-12 I really like these and should probally do them more. People say they feel them in their chest most, I don't and can really feel them pumping my lats up. A good finishing movement.
For the Arnold fans :)
Nice pics. For a second there, I thought that was you Luv baby! ;D :-*
I was gonna ask about the pullovers. I do alot of them with the cable (standing up), but it always seems that they burn up my arms, particularly my tris. I haven't mastered the form on the dumbell pullovers, but I also haven't done them in a long time.
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Nice pics. For a second there, I thought that was you Luv baby! ;D :-*
LOL very sweet of you to say ripitup baaaby ;D ;D :-* :-*
I was gonna ask about the pullovers. I do alot of them with the cable (standing up), but it always seems that they burn up my arms, particularly my tris. I haven't mastered the form on the dumbell pullovers, but I also haven't done them in a long time.
Well I would give them a try again if I was you, Arnie is demonstrating the form pretty damn well there, especially in that side shot. You can also do them on a flat bench and just do them off the end, that is said to be safer for the back also as your spine is supported. The pullover machines I have used are so-so, you may have the Nautilus one at your gym and if I remember that was one of the better ones IMO. The machines just don't seem to give the stretch and feel the DB ones do for me.
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Well I would give them a try again if I was you, Arnie is demonstrating the form pretty damn well there, especially in that side shot. You can also do them on a flat bench and just do them off the end, that is said to be safer for the back also as your spine is supported. The pullover machines I have used are so-so, you may have the Nautilus one at your gym and if I remember that was one of the better ones IMO. The machines just don't seem to give the stretch and feel the DB ones do for me.
I may try them on the flat bench. The pics of Arnold are inspiring! :o
I used to go to a gym with a ribcage pullover machine, and I loved it...I used it all the time...although I can't say for sure that it really hit my lats that hard. I did used to feel it in my chest as well. But it's been years since I have used one. That's one Nautilus machine we don't have at my current gym.
BTW, I did do some chin ups this week with my back workout, and I am embarassed to say it didn't go very well. Maybe it's because I am a lot heavier that I was 2 months ago and not much stronger. :-\
I did close grip chins (the easiest!), and I managed 8 for my first set, and then only 5 for the following three sets. And I am very sore!
Keep up the good work Luv Baby! :)
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I may try them on the flat bench. The pics of Arnold are inspiring! :o
I used to go to a gym with a ribcage pullover machine, and I loved it...I used it all the time...although I can't say for sure that it really hit my lats that hard. I did used to feel it in my chest as well. But it's been years since I have used one. That's one Nautilus machine we don't have at my current gym.
BTW, I did do some chin ups this week with my back workout, and I am embarassed to say it didn't go very well. Maybe it's because I am a lot heavier that I was 2 months ago and not much stronger. :-\
I did close grip chins (the easiest!), and I managed 8 for my first set, and then only 5 for the following three sets. And I am very sore!
Keep up the good work Luv Baby! :)
Are those chins you did with and underhand grip? If they are im calling the airlines right now to get my ticket to come give you that spanking!! >:(............. :P
Do you guys have that type of pull up machine that assists you? If not have someone spot you by your feet, just cross them, till you can start doing them on your own for 6 reps or so. All kidding aside thats good, but remember I have that ticket agency on speed dial sweetie :D
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Are those chins you did with and underhand grip? If they are im calling the airlines right now to get my ticket to come give you that spanking!! >:(............. :P
Do you guys have that type of pull up machine that assists you? If not have someone spot you by your feet, just cross them, till you can start doing them on your own for 6 reps or so. All kidding aside thats good, but remember I have that ticket agency on speed dial sweetie :D
UH OH!!! ;D
Actually they weren't under-handed, they were close grip with palms facing each other...know what I mean? Still, they are the easier ones lol.
We do have an assisted pullup machine, I just wanted to try them by myself, and I didnt have anyone to hold my feet. :-[
I'll work the assisted one wide grip and let you know how it goes. I wouldn't want you to have to get your travel agent on the job......WAIT, lemme think about that again.................hm mmmmm........WELLL...... ..........hmmmmmmmmmmmmm mm.....
NAH, I guess I will do them wide grip next time! :D
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UH OH!!! ;D
Actually they weren't under-handed, they were close grip with palms facing each other...know what I mean? Still, they are the easier ones lol.
We do have an assisted pullup machine, I just wanted to try them by myself, and I didnt have anyone to hold my feet. :-[
I'll work the assisted one wide grip and let you know how it goes. I wouldn't want you to have to get your travel agent on the job......WAIT, lemme think about that again.................hm mmmmm........WELLL...... ..........hmmmmmmmmmmmmm mm.....
NAH, I guess I will do them wide grip next time! :D
LOL, darn it :)
Yeah I know the kind you mean those are good too. Actually at my gym there is really no good place to do those. I will sometimes put a close grip handle like from the cable rows over a bar in a squat rack and do them there but its not the best set up.
Keep pumping ripitupbaby!
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Great points! I do like to check out the anatomy books as they will give good information about how the different muscles affect movement, and you can incorporate this into your training.
http://www.humankinetics.com/products/showproduct.cfm?isbn=0736048138
http://books.google.com/books?id=YTdsosIQrv4C&dq=&pg=PP1&ots=mUMHaxaVfx&sig=oJCb6QtBTu0lELG_MBLmOEWZ15s&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fhl%3Den%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dweight%2Btraining%2Banatomy%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title
I'm familiar with those books. They're pretty much groundbreaking. I hope the author comes out with more of them.
For a straight up anatomy book, this one takes it to a whole 'nother level.
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I used the weight assisted pull up machine to do wide grip negatives last night....three sets, first exercise.
They are TOUGH!
My arms were shaking lol.
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I used the weight assisted pull up machine to do wide grip negatives last night....three sets, first exercise.
They are TOUGH!
My arms were shaking lol.
Cool, there is this girl in our gym who very athletic, she would make a good BB wide shoulders, very nice shape and strong. She does the wige grip chins, thumbless grip she uses like this big rubber band to help her. wraps it around the pullup rack and her legs and this gives here an assist.
Teusday I did pull ups too first excersise for four sets and negatives the last 2. Last set I did as many pullups as I could and then went right on the assisted machine for like 8 more, felt real nice.
Stay with those babys rip baby :) tough for a reason. This older dude walked by me as I was doing them and he said, "I dont see to many people doing pull ups, cause they are hard" he's an old skool guy, which I like.
Back to basics baby! In the gym doing the shit no one else wants to do. 8)
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Cool, there is this girl in our gym who very athletic, she would make a good BB wide shoulders, very nice shape and strong. She does the wige grip chins, thumbless grip she uses like this big rubber band to help her. wraps it around the pullup rack and her legs and this gives here an assist.
Teusday I did pull ups too first excersise for four sets and negatives the last 2. Last set I did as many pullups as I could and then went right on the assisted machine for like 8 more, felt real nice.
Stay with those babys rip baby :) tough for a reason. This older dude walked by me as I was doing them and he said, "I dont see to many people doing pull ups, cause they are hard" he's an old skool guy, which I like.
Back to basics baby! In the gym doing the shit no one else wants to do. 8)
Ain't it the truth!
Good idea with the rubber band, I will have to try that the next time I am struggling on my own to do the wide grip pullups.
:)
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chins are the only big basic movement that i don't believe in, do them for awhile and your rotators will look like hamburger in time, do pulldowns instead.
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chins are the only big basic movement that i don't believe in, do them for awhile and your rotators will look like hamburger in time, do pulldowns instead.
Another problem is that, unless your gym has a gravitron machine, you're immediately jumping into a heavy set (your bodyweight) without a warmup.
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Another problem is that, unless your gym has a gravitron machine, you're immediately jumping into a heavy set (your bodyweight) without a warmup.
That IS a problem. And of course, if you wait till later in your workout, you are fried and risk injury more.
Pulldowns are a standard exercise in my back workouts, usually both wide grip and close grip, and occasionally underhanded.
I am still undecided about chins, although I have been working them from time to time, and I like the negs on the gravitron A LOT.
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My training this morning:
Shoulder warm-up: IR/ER, "L-rotations" w/5lb weight
Scapular retractions: prone "YTWL" with thumbs up, 3x8
I need to thoroughly warm up the shoulders because I have issues with them.
Bent-over BB rows s/s with close-grip pull downs 4x12-15
Hammer Strength High Pulls s/s with standing low 1 arm cable rows (with 180 degree wrist rotation for RC work), 4x12-15
High throat pulls s/s with modified DL 3x12 (8-10 for DL)
abs
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I have decided to incorporate trap training into back day since I am not doing shoulder days anymore right now.
Here's what I did last night...
-3 sets wide grip weight assisted pull ups
-4 sets Hammer strength lat pulldown followed by one more set of weight assisted wide pull ups
-4 sets Icarian low row cables with super wide grip (hits traps more), supersetted with DB shrugs 45 pounds
-3 sets close grip pull downs
-3 sets Nautilus compound row machine
I'm gonna try Cham's workout next time!
:)
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I have decided to incorporate trap training into back day since I am not doing shoulder days anymore right now.
Here's what I did last night...
-3 sets wide grip weight assisted pull ups
-4 sets Hammer strength lat pulldown followed by one more set of weight assisted wide pull ups
-4 sets Icarian low row cables with super wide grip (hits traps more), supersetted with DB shrugs 45 pounds
-3 sets close grip pull downs
-3 sets Nautilus compound row machine
I'm gonna try Cham's workout next time!
:)
Trying to think what that Nautilus Row Machine is like, I thought they have cool ideas for machines. Glad to see you are doing the pull ups, dont care what anybody says there is no substitute. I think this might be it, looks very cool wish we had one.
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Trying to think what that Nautilus Row Machine is like, I thought they have cool ideas for machines. Glad to see you are doing the pull ups, dont care what anybody says there is no substitute. I think this might be it, looks very cool wish we had one.
Yep that's the one. It's my favorite back machine. 8)
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OK, I've got a question. After reading through this thread it doesn't seem like anyone here really prioritizes more standard "thickness" back lifts. Not saying you guys don't do them, I'm sure "az" does...it just seems like things such as pull-ups, pull-downs and any variation of those is what you guys do for the bulk of your back training.
What about simple basic rows like BB and t-bar...2 of my favorites on back day and I always do one of them...not too much emphasis here on deads either...some but not much. Just curious as to what you guys think.
Anyway, I did back today, pretty standard back day for me...here's what it looked like:
T-bar row: 2 warm up, 3 working sets (actual BB, not one of those stupid machine set ups.)
Close-grip pull downs: 3 sets
Hammer seated row: 1 arm at a time 2 sets
Rack deads: 1 warm-up, set 3 working sets
On the deads, obviously I'm already warmed up but even so, I still usually always do one light set just to get a feel for it. As for doing them off the rack instead of the floor; I used to do them off the floor until about a year ago. Dave told me to stop doing them from the floor, and since I do whatever he says, lol, I do them from the rack now...just below the knee...I absolutely love these things...nothing sets my entire back on fire like these do.
One more thing, how about a little poll? Who here uses straps for back lifts? Put me down for Yes Straps!
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Trying to think what that Nautilus Row Machine is like, I thought they have cool ideas for machines. Glad to see you are doing the pull ups, dont care what anybody says there is no substitute. I think this might be it, looks very cool wish we had one.
This is the one I use in 'my' gym:
http://www.panattasport.com/en/product.asp?ID=50134
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OK, I've got a question. After reading through this thread it doesn't seem like anyone here really prioritizes more standard "thickness" back lifts. Not saying you guys don't do them, I'm sure "az" does...it just seems like things such as pull-ups, pull-downs and any variation of those is what you guys do for the bulk of your back training.
What about simple basic rows like BB and t-bar...2 of my favorites on back day and I always do one of them...not too much emphasis here on deads either...some but not much. Just curious as to what you guys think.
Anyway, I did back today, pretty standard back day for me...here's what it looked like:
T-bar row: 2 warm up, 3 working sets (actual BB, not one of those stupid machine set ups.)
Close-grip pull downs: 3 sets
Hammer seated row: 1 arm at a time 2 sets
Rack deads: 1 warm-up, set 3 working sets
On the deads, obviously I'm already warmed up but even so, I still usually always do one light set just to get a feel for it. As for doing them off the rack instead of the floor; I used to do them off the floor until about a year ago. Dave told me to stop doing them from the floor, and since I do whatever he says, lol, I do them from the rack now...just below the knee...I absolutely love these things...nothing sets my entire back on fire like these do.
One more thing, how about a little poll? Who here uses straps for back lifts? Put me down for Yes Straps!
Must not have read the whole thread bro, re-read page 1 we talk about rows and straps and all that good stuff. As far as deads I dont like em, no reason for deadlifts in a BB routine IMO. Will do stiff leg deads though once and a while they helped build my hams nicely. :)
This is the one I use in 'my' gym:
http://www.panattasport.com/en/product.asp?ID=50134
Cool looking equipment spirit!
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Must not have read the whole thread bro, re-read page 1 we talk about rows and straps and all that good stuff. As far as deads I dont like em, no reason for deadlifts in a BB routine IMO. Will do stiff leg deads though once and a while they helped build my hams nicely. :)
Cool bro. I'll admit, I skimmed through this thread pretty fast and must have missed all that.
Why do you think deads have no place in a BB routine? Why would something that packs on a lot of thickness be a bad thing?
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Cool bro. I'll admit, I skimmed through this thread pretty fast and must have missed all that.
Why do you think deads have no place in a BB routine? Why would something that packs on a lot of thickness be a bad thing?
Well tons of people do em, so what do I know. See the thing is for me they would put thickness in my waist area and hips, not areas I want any thicker. Also to be honest the potential for injury is high with that movement IMO.
Like I said lots of guys and gals do em and if its working for you all than great! They are hard work and I can appreciate that :)
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Well tons of people do em, so what do I know. See the thing is for me they would put thickness in my waist area and hips, not areas I want any thicker. Also to be honest the potential for injury is high with that movement IMO.
Like I said lots of guys and gals do em and if its working for you all than great! They are hard work and I can appreciate that :)
You're right, but that's why I do them from the rack and not the floor anymore...lord knows I need all the help I can get in the waist area, lol.
You're also right about the injury statement. The only back area injury I've ever had was caused by deads from the floor...that and me being really stupid and trying to pull too much weight. Needless to say on that faithful day I did manage to get the weight up, but for what? It was 12 wks before I could do any heavy back work or any heavy legs stuff after that. I think that was back around 03 or so...just a little younger and a whole lot dumber!
Anyway, I still like doing the rack deads, but like you, hey what do I know? I'm not going to bust the balls of the almighty L2H...it looks like you're doing a pretty good job with your back deads or no deads. :)
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LOL not almighty but getting there LOL :D
One thing I would like that deads give you are those big, strong erectors. Man those really help in the back shots and for core strength.
I feel exercises like BB bent rows and t-bar rows help that area some too but probally not like DL. You mentioned those exercises in your prior post. I always feel that my back training is not complete unless I do one of those 2. But sometimes will cable row, DB row (a really good move IMO) machine row or what ever. But my core back work out is pullups and BB bent rows in that order. always get sore from them.
For me typically on back day I will alternate a pull up type move with a rowing move. Like this, pull ups 4 sets, BB rows 4 sets, some other kind of pull down type move 4 sets. some type row 4 sets. I do also like to do DB pullovers for my lats and serratus sometimes.
See the thing is I have trained back pretty heavy over the years and have a pretty good feel for my lats working. But I'm not fully happy with the results. I'm thinking back training is not all about the #'s and have been trying as of late to feel and contract the muscle as much as I can. Still use as much weight as I can while feeling it. Guess we will see how that works for a while. Thats the fun of BB trying new things and seeing how they workout.
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LOL not almighty but getting there LOL :D
One thing I would like that deads give you are those big, strong erectors. Man those really help in the back shots and for core strength.
I feel exercises like BB bent rows and t-bar rows help that area some too but probally not like DL. You mentioned those exercises in your prior post. I always feel that my back training is not complete unless I do one of those 2. But sometimes will cable row, DB row (a really good move IMO) machine row or what ever. But my core back work out is pullups and BB bent rows in that order. always get sore from them.
For me typically on back day I will alternate a pull up type move with a rowing move. Like this, pull ups 4 sets, BB rows 4 sets, some other kind of pull down type move 4 sets. some type row 4 sets. I do also like to do DB pullovers for my lats and serratus sometimes.
See the thing is I have trained back pretty heavy over the years and have a pretty good feel for my lats working. But I'm not fully happy with the results. I'm thinking back training is not all about the #'s and have been trying as of late to feel and contract the muscle as much as I can. Still use as much weight as I can while feeling it. Guess we will see how that works for a while. Thats the fun of BB trying new things and seeing how they workout.
That very well may work well for you. I'll throw this out there though for food for thought. A guy I used to train with who's been competing seriously for the last 10+yrs made a mistake of "lowering the weight." True, you should always have good enough control and be able to feel the muscle working but there has to be some cut off point as where you're not going as heavy as you should. Case in point, this guy I mentioned started purposely lowering his weights used on all exercises so as to get a better feel...at least that was the idea. It's not like his form was ever sloppy with the heavier weight either, so it was a pointless drop in weight IMO. Needless to say, his back and legs suffered a great deal of size loss over the past year...no suprise to me.
Major problem was IMO, he was listening to the wrong person. A pro natural BB who in my opinion is full of more shit then any human I've ever known. They became big buddies and so he did whatever this guy told him to. When things started going south, the "Pro ::)" started making outrageous claims as to why it was happening. I won't bore you with detail but I'm sure you see what I mean. I would love to drop this guys name and see what you all think about him or if any of you have ever met him. But I guess I want, cause that would make me as bad as all the idiots on this board who I hate, lol! One thing that I always found funny though, I used to contradict everything he said, usually by the way of stuff Dave told me...I even had Dave reply to an email for him concerning some stuff and Dave shot his crap straight down, lol. Needless to say, this "Pro ::)" absolutely hates my guts...no love lost here either.
Last thing, suprise suprise another Dave tid bit, he's often said, never ever purposely lower the weight not for anything except bad form or injury.
Anyway, sorry for the long rant ;D BTW, did I mention I don't like the "pro ::)" in this little post?
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Wow, lots of good info in this thread, and I don't really disagree with any of it. :D
I have not discovered yet what works best for me with my back. I have a lot of detail in my back but could use some more thickness for sure.
I too try to alternate between pull and row exercises on back day, and I am totally guilty of falling into a routine with my back and not really making much progress with the numbers.
-I would totally do the T bar row, but the one at my current gym sucks. It squishes my chest and makes it hard to breathe.
-I do straight leg deads on leg day, and sometimes I also throw in a few sets of hyper extensions or lower back machine. The straight legs focus more on the glutes and hammies, but I know my back gets hit quite a bit too.
-I am weary of back injury. I crunched a disk doing dead lifts (bent legs, 225 pounds) a little over three years ago, and it took me out of the gym for 6 weeks, which isn't even really that long for a back injury. So I don't like to take the numbers too high on those anymore, and I do them straight leg to take a little off the back.
-I definitely use straps but only on the chin ups and heavy pull downs.
I'm still unsure of what i am gonna do with my off-season back program, but I have some ideas. Since I am in the powerlifting mode, I may change things up a bit pretty soon.
:)
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-I would totally do the T bar row, but the one at my current gym sucks. It squishes my chest and makes it hard to breathe.
Well rip its time to get midevil on that sh*t. ;D
Maybe you can do this style of t-bar rows?
These work the middle of the back and the lower lats very well.
Stick one end of an empty bar in a corner and load weight on the other end. Straddle the bar with your back to the corner and keeping the legs slightly bent, bend forward at the waist and pick up the loaded end of the bar gripping just inside the collar. Alternatively, you can use a small "V-grip" handle placed under the bar. Pull up and back as far as possible, then lower.
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Well rip its time to get midevil on that sh*t. ;D
Maybe you can do this style of t-bar rows?
These work the middle of the back and the lower lats very well.
Stick one end of an empty bar in a corner and load weight on the other end. Straddle the bar with your back to the corner and keeping the legs slightly bent, bend forward at the waist and pick up the loaded end of the bar gripping just inside the collar. Alternatively, you can use a small "V-grip" handle placed under the bar. Pull up and back as far as possible, then lower.
Yep, this is the only way I'll do them. The padded thing rip mentioned, that's the thing I hate...like her, I can't breath using one of those.
As for the V-grip handle, that works really well...just make sure if you're a guy that you don't jerk to hard and let the handle slide down the bar...otherwise, you'll instantly and uncomfortably be transformed into a woman...I've seen this happen once, lol!
Might also add if you do them this way with the bar in the corner, make sure the empty end of the bar is secure and held down, or it can end up moving around a lot and bouncing. Luckily for me, my gym has a little floor attachment that you can stick the bar into just for t-bar rows.
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Luckily for me, my gym has a little floor attachment that you can stick the bar into just for t-bar rows.
Is this what you mean:
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Yep that what he means spirit, I have seen ones that look a little different but thats the thing. I wish we did have one of those at my gym. But I have found just jambing it in the corner to be fine. Will admit the bar end holder is the way to go though.
Thing is I like to do t-bar rows in 2 places in our gym, we also have a regular t-bar row on the floor by Flex Fitness. Its a pretty good one, not the best I have used but good. The good thing about the t-bar row machine is it allows you to choose different hand positions, where in the bar in the corner method you are pretty much limited to a neutral hand position (palms facing each other) this hand position involes more biceps. The t-bar row machine lets you pick a pronated hand position (palms down) which involves the biceps less.
Would post a pic of it but their site has "been under construction" for over a month now ::)
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We don't have one of those bar attachments, but that looks pretty cool. I've seen people using the barbell jammed into a corner with the V handle (close grip), but I have always been too lazy to set it up for myself. :P
I'll give it a try. 8)
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We don't have one of those bar attachments, but that looks pretty cool. I've seen people using the barbell jammed into a corner with the V handle (close grip), but I have always been too lazy to set it up for myself. :P
I'll give it a try. 8)
Yes you will Missy! No excuses :P Or you know what..... ;)
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Yes you will Missy! No excuses :P Or you know what..... ;)
LOL stop making me so conflicted about what to do! :D
Back day is in the early part of the week, so I'll give it a go. :)
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Is this what you mean:
Yeah, that's it, except the one at my gym is a little bigger and shaped more like a Home Plate. I'm not sure why all gyms don't have one of these...were talking about a small piece of equipment that I would imagine is pretty cheap.
L2H, they make some handle bar attachments that you can hook on the BB so that you can have differant hand positions similar to what you're talking about. The gym I train at has to, one is very wide, wider then shoulder width and the other the handles are right next to each other...for both of them though they are very long and it creates a space between your hands and the bar that I'd say is around 20". I don't care for those attachments simply because it cuts down on the range of motion a good bit. By the time the handles you're holding hit your body, you don't have your elbows tucked up as far as you would if you were using a V-grip or just grabbing the bar.
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Yeah, that's it, except the one at my gym is a little bigger and shaped more like a Home Plate. I'm not sure why all gyms don't have one of these...were talking about a small piece of equipment that I would imagine is pretty cheap.
L2H, they make some handle bar attachments that you can hook on the BB so that you can have differant hand positions similar to what you're talking about. The gym I train at has to, one is very wide, wider then shoulder width and the other the handles are right next to each other...for both of them though they are very long and it creates a space between your hands and the bar that I'd say is around 20". I don't care for those attachments simply because it cuts down on the range of motion a good bit. By the time the handles you're holding hit your body, you don't have your elbows tucked up as far as you would if you were using a V-grip or just grabbing the bar.
I tried these tonight...jammed a bar in the corner and used the close grip handles. They are basically bent over rows, right? It took me a few tries to get the hang of it, and the close grip handles seem awfully CLOSE...like my hands were only a few inches apart, and when I pulled the weight, it kept hitting me in the chest. But I got the hang of it, I think. My heavy sets had 70 pounds on the bar...not sure what kind of weight I should be working with but that felt heavy.
:)
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I tried these tonight...jammed a bar in the corner and used the close grip handles. They are basically bent over rows, right? It took me a few tries to get the hang of it, and the close grip handles seem awfully CLOSE...like my hands were only a few inches apart, and when I pulled the weight, it kept hitting me in the chest. But I got the hang of it, I think. My heavy sets had 70 pounds on the bar...not sure what kind of weight I should be working with but that felt heavy.
:)
Yeah thats sounds about right rip baby. Did you use a 45 plate? some people use 25s to get a better contraction and be able to pull the weight higher up. Really though you should be fine with the range of motion the bigger plates allow. It does take some getting used to. Keep your legs bent some and pull the handle to your stomach. Watch your back on these, especially pulling it up from the floor. Keep some arch in it and pull with your lats. 70lbs sounds pretty good for first time. We will need to see 100+ in a few months though :P
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Yeah thats sounds about right rip baby. Did you use a 45 plate? some people use 25s to get a better contraction and be able to pull the weight higher up. Really though you should be fine with the range of motion the bigger plates allow. It does take some getting used to. Keep your legs bent some and pull the handle to your stomach. Watch your back on these, especially pulling it up from the floor. Keep some arch in it and pull with your lats. 70lbs sounds pretty good for first time. We will need to see 100+ in a few months though :P
YEP, that's it...AWESOME PIC, thanks for that. ;)
I fkn loooooooooooooooove Arnold. LOVE HIM!! 8)
His training pics are just the best!
I used two 25s and two 10s...I can tell that the 25s work better as I can pull the weight closer. From that pic, it looks like I did it about right. I'll have to keep those in the rotation since I don't use the T bar set-up.
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I tried these tonight...jammed a bar in the corner and used the close grip handles. They are basically bent over rows, right? It took me a few tries to get the hang of it, and the close grip handles seem awfully CLOSE...like my hands were only a few inches apart, and when I pulled the weight, it kept hitting me in the chest. But I got the hang of it, I think. My heavy sets had 70 pounds on the bar...not sure what kind of weight I should be working with but that felt heavy.
:)
Yeah, they are similar to bent over rows, but it's a differant feel IMO...hit's the middle of the back a bit harder...at least I think so.
There is always a lot of disagreement about how far over you should bend when doing these. Form sticklers say bent all the way over at 45 degrees. Well that's fine but I prefer a slightly less bend then 45...not sure what the exact angle is, it's not standing straight up or a half ass bend. Point being, when you're all the way over at a complete 45 degree angle, the plates will hit your chest sooner then they would if you were up just a little. I know some will knock doing them this way, but I like it better...bigger range of motion.
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What kind of handle/grip is Arnold using in that pic?
I used the close grip handle, it was the only one I could find that I thought would work well.
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What kind of handle/grip is Arnold using in that pic?
I used the close grip handle, it was the only one I could find that I thought would work well.
Well im almost 100% sure about this but Arnold is using a T-bar machine and not just a BB in a corner. That is like the handle on the one in my gym, most also usually give you the option of a close grip too. You will not find old skool t-bar rows much in todays fitness center type gyms. Glad my chain has kept somewhat to its hardcore roots by still having one.
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Well im almost 100% sure about this but Arnold is using a T-bar machine and not just a BB in a corner. That is like the handle on the one in my gym, most also usually give you the option of a close grip too. You will not find old skool t-bar rows much in todays fitness center type gyms. Glad my chain has kept somewhat to its hardcore roots by still having one.
Yes. The former gym I frequented replaced that fine piece of equipment. I didn't really liked it when they did that. >:(
Maybe I should built one myself, and use it at home.
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OH YEAH.......I see now that it's a machine and not a bar. I guess there were other things in that picture that were distracting me from the obvious. ;D
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OH YEAH.......I see now that it's a machine and not a bar. I guess there were other things in that picture that were distracting me from the obvious. ;D
;D
Did back Tuesday and did some different stuff. lately and I think I mostly do different stuff each training session. Really the stuff is not all that different but the sequence and types of excersises is always changing. One thing if do will almost always be first is pull ups, if I dont do em first will have a very hard time getting the reps later in the workout.
Pullups: 4x10-14 BW pullups are getting too easy now for me at this contest prep weight. So on the middle 2 sets I added 25lbs with a chain belt, love using that thing!!
Seated cable rows: 5x10-12 Just keeping the form tight and using as much weight as I can, I used a close grip handle
Hammer reverse grip pull downs: 4X10-12
One arm cable rows: 4X12 Just squezze these and feel the lats working. This move helps get your mind/muscle going.
Cable pullovers: 3X12 just to pump up and put the final touch in.
Not the greatest workout but felt good and had a nice pump. Did not get very sore from it, a bit. But not like if I did some free weight rowing move like BB rows or something. 8)
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That's a pretty good workout a week out from the show, you must be TIRED.
I always grow to love the exercises that get easier at a lower body weight (like pullups), and then hate them again when I get fat. ;D
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That's a pretty good workout a week out from the show, you must be TIRED.
I always grow to love the exercises that get easier at a lower body weight (like pullups), and then hate them again when I get fat. ;D
Wait a minute...you get fat? Say it ain't so ;)
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Wait a minute...you get fat? Say it ain't so ;)
hopefully she'll post some pictures so i can drool, looks fuucking AWESOME.
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hopefully she'll post some pictures so i can drool, looks fuucking AWESOME.
Hold on...you mean you actually like women ;) Good call on rip though...she is definitely one smokin hot pocket!
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That's a pretty good workout a week out from the show, you must be TIRED.
I always grow to love the exercises that get easier at a lower body weight (like pullups), and then hate them again when I get fat. ;D
Yeah pretty tired, not sleeping real well either. Thank God for the nap I get to take at lunch ;)
Yep is nice to have to add weight on pull ups. Off season when Im about 20-25 lbs heavier no need for the extra weight then LOL and 12 reps is a struggle on anything after the first set. :)
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LOL I guess the more PC term is "off-season." ;D
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Yeah thats sounds about right rip baby. Did you use a 45 plate? some people use 25s to get a better contraction and be able to pull the weight higher up. Really though you should be fine with the range of motion the bigger plates allow. It does take some getting used to. Keep your legs bent some and pull the handle to your stomach. Watch your back on these, especially pulling it up from the floor. Keep some arch in it and pull with your lats. 70lbs sounds pretty good for first time. We will need to see 100+ in a few months though :P
I did these again last night as part of my backworkout. Did a warmup set, and then did three sets of 10 with 75 pounds on the bar. It was hard! I think it'll be a while before I'm pulling 100 pounds on that bar. These are good though, thanks for the suggestion guys...I was in need of some different stuff in my back workout.
:)
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I did these again last night as part of my backworkout. Did a warmup set, and then did three sets of 10 with 75 pounds on the bar. It was hard! I think it'll be a while before I'm pulling 100 pounds on that bar. These are good though, thanks for the suggestion guys...I was in need of some different stuff in my back workout.
:)
Sounds good Rip! Keep working hard :)
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I have been so busy that I haven't trained nearly as much as I should have. All of my training for the last couple of weeks was focused on the bench press. I FINALLY got into the gym and did my first back workout in three weeks.
I don't remember too much about the weights/reps, but here's what I did...I'm incorporating a small bicep workout into my back days, since my bench press training doesn't call for alot of bicep work (gotta keep the elbows injury free). I'd like to also incorporate some trap work into my back day, but I didn't get anything specific in last night.
-warmup 2 sets x 15 weight assisted pullups
-4 sets wide grip pulldowns
-3 sets cable ribcage pullovers
-4 sets Nautilus compound row machine
-3 sets DB bicep curls
-3 sets close grip pulldowns
-3 sets Nautilus bicep curl machine (not sure I like it but i figured I would give it a try)
I'm fairly certain this will put a hurting on me. Tonight is legs, which I also haven't done in three weeks. :-\
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I have been so busy that I haven't trained nearly as much as I should have. All of my training for the last couple of weeks was focused on the bench press. I FINALLY got into the gym and did my first back workout in three weeks.
I don't remember too much about the weights/reps, but here's what I did...I'm incorporating a small bicep workout into my back days, since my bench press training doesn't call for alot of bicep work (gotta keep the elbows injury free). I'd like to also incorporate some trap work into my back day, but I didn't get anything specific in last night.
-warmup 2 sets x 15 weight assisted pullups
-4 sets wide grip pulldowns
-3 sets cable ribcage pullovers
-4 sets Nautilus compound row machine
-3 sets DB bicep curls
-3 sets close grip pulldowns
-3 sets Nautilus bicep curl machine (not sure I like it but i figured I would give it a try)
I'm fairly certain this will put a hurting on me. Tonight is legs, which I also haven't done in three weeks. :-\
Cool Rip baby it had to feel good to hit those muscles you have not in a while. I see you have added in pull overs, I like them too on back day. Have you added them to help with the PL?
I will accept the time restraint excuses till after the holidays like till January 2, then its go time.....or else! :-* ;D
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Cool Rip baby it had to feel good to hit those muscles you have not in a while. I see you have added in pull overs, I like them too on back day. Have you added them to help with the PL?
I will accept the time restraint excuses till after the holidays like till January 2, then its go time.....or else! :-* ;D
I actually just threw in the pullovers because I was standing right next to the cable while my husband was finishing his pulldowns. ;D
I think they are better with dumbells, like you have described before. I am really not sure if they are working my back much when I do them standing up with the cable because it's always my triceps that start burning, even though I keep my chest up and arms locked.
I'm on a mission to get back to my full training routine, which is only four days a week of lifting right now, so it really shouldn't be THAT hard for me to accomplish. ::)
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Back workout last night....
I've been kinda flailing a little on training anything other than chest, but I am managing to get in semi-decent back workouts. I am slightly concerned about my back, as back size is a weak spot for me, and I have not made any progress on it this off-season yet. This will have to be my priority after the bench meet in Feb. I'll probably switch things up and start trying to hit back twice a week.
This was a FAST workout...in and out in about 50 mins.
- 3 sets weight assisted pullups, wide grip, x 15
- 4 sets hammer strength lat pulldown machine, 55 pounds on each side x 12 (kinda light)
- 4 sets Nautilus compound row machine x 12
- 3 sets close grip pulldowns x 12
- 1 superset close grip pulldown/compound row, 12 each
- 2 sets cable straight bar bicep curls
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I'll probably switch things up and start trying to hit back twice a week.
You going to make it one day for thickness, and one day for width? Seems a lot of people bring their backs up doing it that way.
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You going to make it one day for thickness, and one day for width? Seems a lot of people bring their backs up doing it that way.
I haven't really thought about it yet, but I've heard of that approach. I'll have to do my homework and make that my new mission after February.
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I did a decent back workout this week, I'm still a little "all over the place" with my training (except for chest of course LOL), but at least I am getting back workouts in! I hit my lower back pretty good on this one b/c I am not training legs till this weekend.
-3 sets wide grip assisted pullups x 15
-4 sets wide grip pulldowns (120/130 pounds) x 8-10
-4 sets lower back hyper-extensions x 12 (I call these reverse situps)
-3 sets Hammer Strength low row x 10-12 (this hits the traps pretty good)
-4 sets Nautilus compound row x 12 (125 pounds, I think)
-3 sets Nautilus Lower back machine with 110 pounds x 12
-2 sets close grip pulldowns x 10 ... these were hurting my left shoulder (it's been aching a lot this week :() so I stopped at 2 sets
I finished off with 5 sets on the Cybex preacher curl (biceps) machine.
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What do you think of the Hammer Strength Pullover machine? I used to use a similar machine years ago.
Our new gym has these, and I was psyched, but then I got into it and wasn't very comfortable. Not sure if I am too small for it and whether it's a useful exercise. I usually do a similar thing standing up with the cable.
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What do you think of the Hammer Strength Pullover machine? I used to use a similar machine years ago.
Our new gym has these, and I was psyched, but then I got into it and wasn't very comfortable. Not sure if I am too small for it and whether it's a useful exercise. I usually do a similar thing standing up with the cable.
There's good, better, best. That Hammer Strenght Pullover is nice for large people. Nice isn't good enough if you pay 44 euro's a month. We have a lot of Panatta, and also some Hammer Strenght machines.
http://www.panattasport.it/en/product.asp?ID=50142
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What do you think of the Hammer Strength Pullover machine? I used to use a similar machine years ago.
Our new gym has these, and I was psyched, but then I got into it and wasn't very comfortable. Not sure if I am too small for it and whether it's a useful exercise. I usually do a similar thing standing up with the cable.
We have that machine in our gym also and I have to say I never tried it. If Im serious about doing some pullovers I will do them on a bench with a DB, cant beat that IMO. When i just wanna pump up lats a little at the end of a workout I will just quickly use the cables.
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We have that machine in our gym also and I have to say I never tried it. If Im serious about doing some pullovers I will do them on a bench with a DB, cant beat that IMO. When i just wanna pump up lats a little at the end of a workout I will just quickly use the cables.
Yeah, we've talked about the DB pullovers before, and that they are best, and I agree but I always end up using the cables, and then I got drawn in by the allure of a new Hammer Strength machine. :D
I think I'm too short for it in the arms and torso...it practically lifts me out of the seat at the top, and that's with the seat as far up as it will go.
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Yeah, we've talked about the DB pullovers before, and that they are best, and I agree but I always end up using the cables, and then I got drawn in by the allure of a new Hammer Strength machine. :D
I think I'm too short for it in the arms and torso...it practically lifts me out of the seat at the top, and that's with the seat as far up as it will go.
I am going to give it a shot and report my findings on Teusday :D
If its lifting you up like that yeah maybe its just a poor fit for you. If I came over there I would let you sit in my lap while you did them, that might help :-*
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What do you think of the Hammer Strength Pullover machine? I used to use a similar machine years ago.
Our new gym has these, and I was psyched, but then I got into it and wasn't very comfortable. Not sure if I am too small for it and whether it's a useful exercise. I usually do a similar thing standing up with the cable.
We've got a Hammer one that's a little different looking then that one but basically the same thing, and I don't like it at all...it feels really awkward. I have a hard time reaching the back part too so I can only imagine how difficult that would be for you.
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If its lifting you up like that yeah maybe its just a poor fit for you. If I came over there I would let you sit in my lap while you did them, that might help :-*
;D
We've got a Hammer one that's a little different looking then that one but basically the same thing, and I don't like it at all...it feels really awkward. I have a hard time reaching the back part too so I can only imagine how difficult that would be for you.
Yep, exactly. I think that DBs are the best way to go for this exercise. I find this to be the case with alot of exercises...the machines tend to force you into what can be an awkward or incorrect position, esp if you are a shortie like me. :P
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Well I gave that Hammer Pull Over Machine a try yesterday at the end of my work out to se how it works. At first a I had a hard time figuring out where my hands should go on it and will say it puts my hands in a not so natural position. I just put one plate on there to feel how it worked. I tried a seating position up all the way and one about 3 notches down. Have to say I think the thing feels pretty good. Felt like it was hitting my lats pretty good. I liked it most with the seat at about 3, that seemed to fit me pretty well.
I don't know if it will work well with me when I put some more weight on there? But I think I might start using the thing here and there. Thanks for pointing it out Rip. :)
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Well I gave that Hammer Pull Over Machine a try yesterday at the end of my work out to se how it works. At first a I had a hard time figuring out where my hands should go on it and will say it puts my hands in a not so natural position. I just put one plate on there to feel how it worked. I tried a seating position up all the way and one about 3 notches down. Have to say I think the thing feels pretty good. Felt like it was hitting my lats pretty good. I liked it most with the seat at about 3, that seemed to fit me pretty well.
I don't know if it will work well with me when I put some more weight on there? But I think I might start using the thing here and there. Thanks for pointing it out Rip. :)
Sure thing Luv Baby. I think those machines are built for someone more your size. ;)
If you fit comfortably in it, you should be able to get a real good stretch out of it at the top end.
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Sure thing Luv Baby. I think those machines are built for someone more your size. ;)
If you fit comfortably in it, you should be able to get a real good stretch out of it at the top end.
Yep gotta love the stretch. :)
Here was my back work out Teusday. I have as of the last few years been doing a different workout almost every time I train. I think the variety is important and helps give that complete look. But its usually gonna be 2 rowing moves and 2 pulling down type moves. I worked hard last year to bring my back up and add detail and think I did a good job with it. Still wanna get it better but found yes you need to put some good tension on it with heavy weight but you can not let the weights get so heavy that you lose the feel.
Close grip pull downs 4x10-12 last set drop set
BB rows 4x10-12 Last set drop set
Wide grip front pull downs 4x12
one arm cable rows 4x12
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Yep gotta love the stretch. :)
Here was my back work out Teusday. I have as of the last few years been doing a different workout almost every time I train. I think the variety is important and helps give that complete look. But its usually gonna be 2 rowing moves and 2 pulling down type moves. I worked hard last year to bring my back up and add detail and think I did a good job with it. Still wanna get it better but found yes you need to put some good tension on it with heavy weight but you can not let the weights get so heavy that you lose the feel.
Close grip pull downs 4x10-12 last set drop set
BB rows 4x10-12 Last set drop set
Wide grip front pull downs 4x12
one arm cable rows 4x12
The back is one of those muscle groups that you can work in SO many different ways, it's great to mix things up a bit. 8)
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What happened to our training threads?!
I've been slacking on the training threads because I have been focused so much on my bench press workouts.
I did a back workout yesterday, and it felt good because I had skipped last week b/c of the bench meet.
-The new gym has a bent over T-bar row set up. I did 2 sets x 12 with 55 pounds on it, and 2 sets x 10 with 70 pounds.
-Hammer strength pulldown machine...not my favorite. I did 2 sets x 10 with 70 pounds per side.
-Wide grip lat pulldowns - 4 sets x 10 about 110 pounds (I should be pulling my bodyweight! >:()
-Low rows - 3 sets x 12 with about 100 pounds. I also did a beginning set and an ending set one hand at a time with about 60 pounds, totalling five sets.
-I also tried out the Technogym lat pulldown and the Life Fitness lat pulldown for one set each, and I didn't like either one. :P
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What happened to our training threads?!
I've been slacking on the training threads because I have been focused so much on my bench press workouts.
I did a back workout yesterday, and it felt good because I had skipped last week b/c of the bench meet.
-The new gym has a bent over T-bar row set up. I did 2 sets x 12 with 55 pounds on it, and 2 sets x 10 with 70 pounds.
-Hammer strength pulldown machine...not my favorite. I did 2 sets x 10 with 70 pounds per side.
-Wide grip lat pulldowns - 4 sets x 10 about 110 pounds (I should be pulling my bodyweight! >:()
-Low rows - 3 sets x 12 with about 100 pounds. I also did a beginning set and an ending set one hand at a time with about 60 pounds, totalling five sets.
-I also tried out the Technogym lat pulldown and the Life Fitness lat pulldown for one set each, and I didn't like either one. :P
Nice job, I like how you are honest with the weights you use, shows you must use good form and a full ROM.
Pull downs just don't compare with pull ups. Hard...yes, unglamorous...yes, a true measure of your strength...yes.
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Nice job, I like how you are honest with the weights you use, shows you must use good form and a full ROM.
Pull downs just don't compare with pull ups. Hard...yes, unglamorous...yes, a true measure of your strength...yes.
I know the opinions about pullups are variable, but I agree. Once I get my body weight down a little ;D, I'll get back to doing them pretty regularly.
As for the weights, I've noticed that every back machine is different...what is 100 pounds on one pulldown machine may be 60 pounds on another, so it's hard to even guage if/when you are pulling body weight.
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I know the opinions about pullups are variable, but I agree. Once I get my body weight down a little ;D, I'll get back to doing them pretty regularly.
As for the weights, I've noticed that every back machine is different...what is 100 pounds on one pulldown machine may be 60 pounds on another, so it's hard to even guage if/when you are pulling body weight.
Yes seems the people who cant do em have the most reasons (excuses) not to.
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Back training tonight. Nothing major but did feel good to hit it with some intensity.
Pull ups 4x10 Man these were HARD at my current fat body weight, but still did get 10 reps per set, I know I will be sore from these.
Hammer rows 4x10-12 one arm at a time
Close grip pull downs 4x10
Db pullovers 4x12
Wish i could do some bent rows but will take it easy on my back for a while right now. May have to give them up considering the arthritis and degenerating disks in my low back :-\ I will have to find substitutes.
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you people need more width excersises
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you people need more width excersises
u care to expand on that noel?
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More pulldown movements , Hammer pull,lat pull wide hammer behind the neck pulldown, pullups, I see way to much rowing...great for thickness but not for width. V-taper my man, V-taper.
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so what would u recommend on back day. For someone who only does 4 exercises for back
3 "width" movement and 1 "thickenss" movement?
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2 and 2 and switch up to three width every so often if width is a problem. People usualy have one or the other...so I have them work on the weak point harder.
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More pulldown movements , Hammer pull,lat pull wide hammer behind the neck pulldown, pullups, I see way to much rowing...great for thickness but not for width. V-taper my man, V-taper.
Point well taken thanks
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2 and 2 and switch up to three width every so often if width is a problem. People usualy have one or the other...so I have them work on the weak point harder.
very basic, but very smart. Ill start doing that, I usually do two and two, but will alternate with 3 and 1 like u said.
Thanx Noel.
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2 and 2 and switch up to three width every so often if width is a problem. People usualy have one or the other...so I have them work on the weak point harder.
Usually how i do it also. Each back workout is different for me. And on occasion I will prioritize width or thickness. But I could see targeting what is your weak point is best.
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Ugh I need some serious width! :P
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Rip send me a pic of your best back double bi and lat spread,,,,,ass shot optional :P
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rowing movements are great for width as well as thickness, anyone who says different doesn't know what the fucck they're talking about, you could do just bb rows and db rows and your back will we both wide and thick.
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BTW the fat dude with the 15 inch arms in this video is "noel" so take his "advice" with a grain of salt.
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BTW the fat dude with the 15 inch arms in this video is "noel" so take his "advice" with a grain of salt.
I dont know man he did do the training for the women who just took 5th at the Ms International.
But do agree the best routine i think i ever did was just 6 sets pull ups and 6 sets BB rows. fun to do heavy(ok heavy for me lol) BB rows while people are playing around on machines. There is a reason not too many people do heavy BB rows and that is cause they are HARD work.
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Rip send me a pic of your best back double bi and lat spread,,,,,ass shot optional :P
;)
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Ohhhh yeah look at the back, Rip is about 2 seconds from being pushed down on that bed face first if I was there. ;D
Thank God things are working again, thanks Rip you saved me!
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Ohhhh yeah look at the back, Rip is about 2 seconds from being pushed down on that bed face first if I was there. ;D
Thank God things are working again, thanks Rip you saved me!
;D :-*
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do nothing but pullups and pulldowns. Start with Hammer pulldowns to the front, Hammer to the back ,go to regular front machine pulldowns then do assisted pullups, go heavy. Try this for a month. Squadfather....to get your v taper all you have to do is lose 80 pounds of fat. Then please stand in front of a window and show us your reflection. How do you pull chicks off myspace with that? Bet you get a lot of window washer responses.
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do nothing but pullups and pulldowns. Start with Hammer pulldowns to the front, Hammer to the back ,go to regular front machine pulldowns then do assisted pullups, go heavy. Try this for a month. Squadfather....to get your v taper all you have to do is lose 80 pounds of fat. Then please stand in front of a window and show us your reflection. How do you pull chicks off myspace with that? Bet you get a lot of window washer responses.
A month with no rowing? I'm willing to give that a try... but I never do anything to the back/behind the neck. What's the difference and what's the advantage of going to the back?
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its just called behind the neck Hammer it doesnt screw up the scapula
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do nothing but pullups and pulldowns. Start with Hammer pulldowns to the front, Hammer to the back ,go to regular front machine pulldowns then do assisted pullups, go heavy. Try this for a month. Squadfather....to get your v taper all you have to do is lose 80 pounds of fat. Then please stand in front of a window and show us your reflection. How do you pull chicks off myspace with that? Bet you get a lot of window washer responses.
Thats some solid advice right there from a top trainer to the pros!! For a top level pro like Brenda and all the others Noel has trained to come to him and trust him with their prep speaks volumes for the man's creds. We are very lucky to have Noel posting here.
Noel i think you looked fine in the video, not sure what sqaudy is talking about.
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I look like shit in the vid but thanx....it was right after christmas and I was a fat ass. Back to sit ups for me.
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I look like shit in the vid but thanx....it was right after christmas and I was a fat ass. Back to sit ups for me.
Well your probally not in contest shape but nothing too bad. LOL sit ups
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Bent legged deads for lower back or straight legged deads for hams/glutes (and lower back of course)? I do straights as part of my leg workout but no deads for my back workout. Do you think this exercise improved your back overall or just the lower back?
Rip, you should consider rack dead lifts. They really tighten up your lower back and adds thickness as well.
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BTW the fat dude with the 15 inch arms in this video is "noel" so take his "advice" with a grain of salt.
umm well considering he just turned around two IFBB pro's careers with a pro win and 5th place finish at the ms. international, i think he knows what hes talking about.
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Rip, you should consider rack dead lifts. I do them most back workouts. They really tighten up your lower back and add some thickness too.
I'll be going down this road cuz I am going to start shaping my workouts around getting stronger in the three PL lifts, even while I am in my BB contest prep. Gotta start doing alot more deads. For now, I'll go with pulls more instead of rows, but I expect to be working on my DLs within the next couple of months.
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be careful and make sure your form is perfect RIP! dont want u getting injured and ruining your bodybuilding career.
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be careful and make sure your form is perfect RIP! dont want u getting injured and ruining your bodybuilding career.
LOL @ career. ;D
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Rip it is a career damnt :)
Your an inspiration to us all :) :)
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rip my alltime friend i just noticed in that pic @ room that your ass aint something great.
dont hate me for that comment
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rip my alltime friend i just noticed in that pic @ room that your ass aint something great.
dont hate me for that comment
It's OK, it's a physique/posing shot on contest day, not really a booty shot. The purpose of that pic is to verify that there is absolutely nothing whatsoever jiggling back there. :)
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rip my alltime friend i just noticed in that pic @ room that your ass aint something great.
dont hate me for that comment
Benz my friend, believe me, after seeing rips ass in person. It aint that bad homie. it aint that bad at all !
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Benz my friend, believe me, after seeing rips ass in person. It aint that bad homie. it aint that bad at all !
haha pics or didnt happen!
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oh dude im not saying that. Im just saying in person her ass looks pretty nice.
You can check out a chics ass without banging her. Damn your a horny lil' south american benz :)
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oh dude im not saying that. Im just saying in person her ass looks pretty nice.
You can check out a chics ass without banging her. Damn your a horny lil' south american benz :)
The time to check out a chicks ass for the purpose of banging her is not in a pic from 4 hours before prejudging for a BB show, that's what I'm sayin. 8)
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oh dude im not saying that. Im just saying in person her ass looks pretty nice.
You can check out a chics ass without banging her. Damn your a horny lil' south american benz :)
pics
or
didnt
happen
;D
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Some guys are into that though Rip, they like that 10 yr old boy who plays soccer ass look :)
For me, i prefer the offseason ass.
To each his own.
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pics
or
didnt
happen
;D
Ok, since i dont have any pics of me staring at rips ass as she walked by us at the expo, it didnt happen. :)
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Ok, since i dont have any pics of me staring at rips ass as she walked by us at the expo, it didnt happen. :)
haha fair enough!
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Ok since we are so off topic here.
I gotta question for everyone.
If you could only do two exercises for back. What would they be???
Mine would be weighted pullups. I dont think there is a better back exercise and corner t bar rows.
Any other input on this??
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Ok since we are so off topic here.
I gotta question for everyone.
If you could only do two exercises for back. What would they be???
Mine would be weighted pullups. I dont think there is a better back exercise and corner t bar rows.
Any other input on this??
Wide grip pull ups and barbell rows.
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Assuming I could keep my deadlifts on leg day, I'd go with wide pullups and Tbar rows.
I did back today, and I did wide pullups, and I suck at them. :P
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Assuming I could keep my deadlifts on leg day, I'd go with wide pullups and Tbar rows.
I did back today, and I did wide pullups, and I suck at them. :P
You train on sundays?? Damn your such a beast. Even god rested on sundays :)
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Wide grip pull ups and barbell rows.
Yes these are the 2 top basics. T-bar would also be a good substitute for bb rows.
Do the pull ups first or you may be too fatigued to get many reps on them.
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You train on sundays?? Damn your such a beast. Even god rested on sundays :)
haha I skipped Friday and Sat. because of my chest workout on Thurs.
The bench press training has made it really challenging to get the rest of my workouts in during the week...I do about two a week with the shirt training...and I get so completely fried from the chest workouts that it takes me a couple of days to recover, and then I don't want to get sore for the next one, so I end up squeezing in back and leg workouts whenever I feel like I can.
I went ahead and did back yesterday, and now my next chest workout is coming up tonight (last one before the meet Sunday), and my back is sore! >:(
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Thursday is back training day. Here was the routine, since recovering from an injury I have had to alter my back and leg training cause these put the most strain on the groin area for me. I have had to do mainly machine rows with chest supported. Today I wanted to do some free weights.
Well I usually start my back training with a width move and it is usually wide grip pullups cause I need to be fresh to get enough reps, especially at offseason weight LOL. Tonight i wanted to mix it up and was not gonna try and pull my fat ass up so this was the routine. Nothing special but felt good.
BB rows barx12, 135x12, 185x10, 225x10. 225x10, 225x10-drop set to 135 here.
Pull downs 4x10-12 I think I got to 180lbs with good form. I like to try and make sure I am feeling these. See lots of people almost parralel with the ground when they do these and try and use a lot of weight. they seem to have very little back development.
Hammer low rows, one arm at a time 4x10-12
machine front pull downs 4x10-12
Man the BB rows really felt good and I know i will get sore from that.
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Thursday is back training day. Here was the routine, since recovering from an injury I have had to alter my back and leg training cause these put the most strain on the groin area for me. I have had to do mainly machine rows with chest supported. Today I wanted to do some free weights.
Well I usually start my back training with a width move and it is usually wide grip pullups cause I need to be fresh to get enough reps, especially at offseason weight LOL. Tonight i wanted to mix it up and was not gonna try and pull my fat ass up so this was the routine. Nothing special but felt good.
BB rows barx12, 135x12, 185x10, 225x10. 225x10, 225x10-drop set to 135 here.
Pull downs 4x10-12 I think I got to 180lbs with good form. I like to try and make sure I am feeling these. See lots of people almost parralel with the ground when they do these and try and use a lot of weight. they seem to have very little back development.
Hammer low rows, one arm at a time 4x10-12
machine front pull downs 4x10-12
Man the BB rows really felt good and I know i will get sore from that.
Yep. I see that all the time too and wonder wtf?!
Sounds good Luv...that's good weight on the BB rows, those are tough. I know what you mean about the pullups, I'm in the same boat as you right now.
I'm starting to change things up a bit and focusing alot more of my back work on deadlifts and rack deads. I think the only other exercises I'll be doing for the time being are wide grip pullups/pulldowns and DB rows. That pretty much covers it...I think those are the top three choices from everyone in this thread. 8)
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I figured I'd revive this thread and give you an idea of what my back workouts are looking like these days. A little different with the PL training lol. This was last night's workout...it was a heavy one, but I wasn't feeling anywhere near 100%. Nevertheless, it was "OK."
Numbers are all weird because I use a combo of kilo/pound plates.
DEADLIFTS
warmup - bar x 15, 111 x 8, 133 x 5
177 x 5
197 x 5
221 x 5
221 x 5
193 x 5
193 x 5
RACK DEADS
A little more than an inch below my knees. These were ridiculously heavy, and I had a hard time holding on to the bar. First set, I couldn't keep my grip well enough to do the third one. I need chalk in my gym bag ASAP.
269 x 2
269 x 3
SUMO DEADS
163 x 3
163 x 3
163 x 3
I finished off with three sets of DB rows, 50 pounds x 8 each arm. I could have gone heavier, but I was not up for it.
I gotta admit, I really like deadlifting. I'm feeling stronger in my back since I started training like this, so I am really interested to see how things will shape up as I diet down.
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I figured I'd revive this thread and give you an idea of what my back workouts are looking like these days. A little different with the PL training lol. This was last night's workout...it was a heavy one, but I wasn't feeling anywhere near 100%. Nevertheless, it was "OK."
Numbers are all weird because I use a combo of kilo/pound plates.
DEADLIFTS
warmup - bar x 15, 111 x 8, 133 x 5
177 x 5
197 x 5
221 x 5
221 x 5
193 x 5
193 x 5
RACK DEADS
A little more than an inch below my knees. These were ridiculously heavy, and I had a hard time holding on to the bar. First set, I couldn't keep my grip well enough to do the third one. I need chalk in my gym bag ASAP.
269 x 2
269 x 3
SUMO DEADS
163 x 3
163 x 3
163 x 3
I finished off with three sets of DB rows, 50 pounds x 8 each arm. I could have gone heavier, but I was not up for it.
I gotta admit, I really like deadlifting. I'm feeling stronger in my back since I started training like this, so I am really interested to see how things will shape up as I diet down.
Those are good! Yes chalk is a good idea as you know, should help you a bit. Man thats a lot of deadlifting though, thats gonna add a nice thick quality to your body. You can tell the people who paid their dues on the big basic movements, its hard to deny the density and completeness they have built.
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Those are good! Yes chalk is a good idea as you know, should help you a bit. Man thats a lot of deadlifting though, thats gonna add a nice thick quality to your body. You can tell the people who paid their dues on the big basic movements, its hard to deny the density and completeness they have built.
That's what I am hoping for. I am still doing about 4-5 good sets of wide grip pulldowns with my moderate and light DL workouts. The one this week was a heavy one, and I opted for DB rows instead. I'm pretty much out of gas once I finish the heavy DLs...they are hard! And my traps were very sore yesterday.
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http://www.smackdaddymusic.com/free.gif
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Trained back yesterday and since Im well lets say kind of still offseason right now LOL I have been avoiding pull ups. Well yesterday said to myself lets try these again. With plenty of fear of failing at about 3 reps I gave it a try. Happy to say I was still able to get 4 sets of 10 reps, suprised me, maybe not as fat as I think I am..........not ;D
Rest of the workout was,
Close grip cable rows
Flex machine front pull downs, this is a pretty good pull down machine it has no cables and is plate loaded, good feel.
Hammer low rows, one arm at a time, these to me feel very much like DB rows.
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Trained back yesterday and since Im well lets say kind of still offseason right now LOL I have been avoiding pull ups. Well yesterday said to myself lets try these again. With plenty of fear of failing at about 3 reps I gave it a try. Happy to say I was still able to get 4 sets of 10 reps, suprised me, maybe not as fat as I think I am..........not ;D
Rest of the workout was,
Close grip cable rows
Flex machine front pull downs, this is a pretty good pull down machine it has no cables and is plate loaded, good feel.
Hammer low rows, one arm at a time, these to me feel very much like DB rows.
I always have a hard time with pullups, especially off-season. One thing I have learned though is that with fat comes strength. So good for you Luv! :D
My back workouts are going well...although I would kill for another 2 inches of width under each of my armpits. ::)
I'll be changing things up again in a few weeks, so I'll post some workouts then. For now, I'm enjoying the deadlift training. I pulled 275 for 2 this week, so I am pretty happy with that!
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I always have a hard time with pullups, especially off-season. One thing I have learned though is that with fat comes strength. So good for you Luv! :D
My back workouts are going well...although I would kill for another 2 inches of width under each of my armpits. ::)
I'll be changing things up again in a few weeks, so I'll post some workouts then. For now, I'm enjoying the deadlift training. I pulled 275 for 2 this week, so I am pretty happy with that!
Dats pretty damn sweeeet! Ripityupbaby!! 8)
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I always have a hard time with pullups, especially off-season. One thing I have learned though is that with fat comes strength. So good for you Luv! :D
My back workouts are going well...although I would kill for another 2 inches of width under each of my armpits. ::)
I'll be changing things up again in a few weeks, so I'll post some workouts then. For now, I'm enjoying the deadlift training. I pulled 275 for 2 this week, so I am pretty happy with that!
Try Straight arm pulldowns for that mass underneath your armpits, it worked well for me. Ive just been doing them for a few weeks and ive already noticed a difference, because i had absolutely nothing under there before.
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Try Straight arm pulldowns for that mass underneath your armpits, it worked well for me. Ive just been doing them for a few weeks and ive already noticed a difference, because i had absolutely nothing under there before.
Now it sounds like you are basicly describing a pullover, but on a machine?
I think that pullovers are underrated.
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Now it sounds like you are basicly describing a pullover, but on a machine?
I think that pullovers are underrated.
this is what im describing :)
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/LatissimusDorsi/CBStraightArmPulldown.html
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this is what im describing :)
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/LatissimusDorsi/CBStraightArmPulldown.html
Yeah thats kind of what I was thinking too, thanks 8)
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Try Straight arm pulldowns for that mass underneath your armpits, it worked well for me. Ive just been doing them for a few weeks and ive already noticed a difference, because i had absolutely nothing under there before.
Will do... I used to do these all the time, I'll add them back in more after this PL meet.
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Trained back yesterday and since Im well lets say kind of still offseason right now LOL I have been avoiding pull ups. Well yesterday said to myself lets try these again. With plenty of fear of failing at about 3 reps I gave it a try. Happy to say I was still able to get 4 sets of 10 reps, suprised me, maybe not as fat as I think I am..........not ;D
Rest of the workout was,
Close grip cable rows
Flex machine front pull downs, this is a pretty good pull down machine it has no cables and is plate loaded, good feel.
Hammer low rows, one arm at a time, these to me feel very much like DB rows.
OK so I went into the gym last night to play around a little (I am still sore from the PL meet so I went pretty light), and the first thing I tried to do was wide-grip pull-ups. Much to my amazement, I managed to get three sets of seven by myself, which isn't horrible.
These are so hard. But they are exactly what I need to be doing now. I have decided to try to start my workouts with three sets of wide grip pullups about 3 times a week, regardless of whether I am training back that day or not. It takes less than 10 minutes, and I think that doing them regularly will help me get a little more width in my back over the next couple of months.
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OK so I went into the gym last night to play around a little (I am still sore from the PL meet so I went pretty light), and the first thing I tried to do was wide-grip pull-ups. Much to my amazement, I managed to get three sets of seven by myself, which isn't horrible.
These are so hard. But they are exactly what I need to be doing now. I have decided to try to start my workouts with three sets of wide grip pullups about 3 times a week, regardless of whether I am training back that day or not. It takes less than 10 minutes, and I think that doing them regularly will help me get a little more width in my back over the next couple of months.
Thats good Rip 7 is more than I thought you had in you :) Now you are not using your legs to kick yourself up are you? Feet crossed behind is how they should be done.
Three times a week is a lot, gotta rest to grow but for a short shocker it just might do what you are looking for.
Stay with em, there is a reason they are so hard, cause they are so good. If you train pull ups all year, for sure next year you will have some major improvements.
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Thats good Rip 7 is more than I thought you had in you :) Now you are not using your legs to kick yourself up are you? Feet crossed behind is how they should be done.
Three times a week is a lot, gotta rest to grow but for a short shocker it just might do what you are looking for.
Stay with em, there is a reason they are so hard, cause they are so good. If you train pull ups all year, for sure next year you will have some major improvements.
LOL Maybe 2 times a week. Feet crossed behind, yes, except my damn hammies kept cramping up, so I had to just let my legs dangle. :P
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LOL Maybe 2 times a week. Feet crossed behind, yes, except my damn hammies kept cramping up, so I had to just let my legs dangle. :P
Thats a good girl ;)
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OK let's get down to it... Upper back width... let me hear any and all suggestions.
Here's what I did last night. Note to self - training back the day after training legs sucks (hence no deadlifting). ;D
Wide Grip Pullups - 4 sets. First set 12, second and third set 10 (struggling), fourth set 9 (struggling alot lol)
Dumbell Rows - 3 sets. 45x15, 55x12, 55x10. These are brutal, I need to do more of them!
Wide Grip Pulldowns - 4 sets. First and last set lighter x 15, second and third set heavier x 8
Life Fitness Low Row Machine - wide grip, 4 sets x 12-15. Felt like these hit my rear delts more than my back.
Life Fitness Lat Pulldown Machine - two big dropsets, basically to failure, probably 40-50 reps each set.
I feel like I am forgetting something. There may have been something else in there, I can't recall right now. Workout took about 1 hour, and I tried to move fast.
Gonna try to hit back again earlier in the week next week, before legs, so that I can deadlift.
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medium reverse grip pulldowns and rows.
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Why dont u break your back up into two days.
Do one thickness day and one width day.
I mean your not going to change much while dieting, but its worth a try.
For example.
Day one Width:
Straight arm Pulldowns 4x8-12
Medium Grip Pullups 4x failure
Overhand Grip Bent over rows 3x6-12
Db Rows 3x8-12
Rest a few days then do thickness
Wide Grip Pullups 4 x failure or Deadlifts ( but im not sure if your deadlifting or not ) u can rotate those 2 exercises.
Corner T-bar Rows 4x6-12
Underhand grip bent over rows 3x8-12
Straight Arm Pulldowns 4x10-12.
There u go! I guarantee gains. :)
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Why dont u break your back up into two days.
Do one thickness day and one width day.
I mean your not going to change much while dieting, but its worth a try.
For example.
Day one Width:
Straight arm Pulldowns 4x8-12
Medium Grip Pullups 4x failure
Overhand Grip Bent over rows 3x6-12
Db Rows 3x8-12
Rest a few days then do thickness
Wide Grip Pullups 4 x failure or Deadlifts ( but im not sure if your deadlifting or not ) u can rotate those 2 exercises.
Corner T-bar Rows 4x6-12
Underhand grip bent over rows 3x8-12
Straight Arm Pulldowns 4x10-12.
There u go! I guarantee gains. :)
I've seen this kind of layout before, and I think I am going to try something like that for the next 10 weeks. I'm going to try to set up a new training split this week...easier to follow it if I write it down. :)
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email me your workout when u decide on it id love to see it :)
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I'll get something set up sometime this week and post the general layout in my prep thread.
I hit back last night, did something similar to the thickness workout. Got it done on Monday in hopes of hitting it again Thurs or Fri, and staying on it twice a week for the next 9 weeks. I realized last night that I had not deadlifted AT ALL since the powerlifting meet like 11 weeks ago. Did some deadlifts last night... wow, I am weak!
I tried to stay relatively light so that I didn't completely destroy my back on the first workout of the week.
DEADS -barx20, 95x15, 115x12, 135x8, 135x8
Life Fitness Unlateral Row (medium) - 4 sets x 12
Medium Grip reverse pulldowns 2 sets x 12
Close Grip pulldowns 2 sets x 12
Straight arm pulldowns (cable style pullovers) 3 sets x 12
Volume still a little low IMO, but I'll work up. I also did about 6-8 sets of ab exercises and 30 mins on the stepmill.