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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Stark on September 20, 2007, 12:08:54 AM
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=580_1190245514
oh and if he really hit the ground before skitting/hitting the Pentagon then why were the grass verges in the foreground in perfect condition?
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oh and if he really hit the ground before skitting/hitting the Pentagon then why were the grass verges in the foreground in perfect condition?
Astro turf.
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Astro turf.
So if a plain hits or skits of astro turf it will not leave any marks?
Why is the US Military not growing that stuff on their Hummers? if it can withstand a Boeing 767...
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So if a plain hits or skits of astro turf it will not leave any marks?
Why is the US Military not growing that stuff on their Hummers? if it can withstand a Boeing 767...
lol I was joking, maybe it's a titanium alloy astro turf? :P
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lol I was joking, maybe it's a titanium alloy astro turf? :P
lol but its kinda strange, the super lowflybys are insane, I don't think I want to go to an airshow soon, they spell disaster.
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lol but its kinda strange, the super lowflybys are insane, I don't think I want to go to an airshow soon, they spell disaster.
Tell me about it... there was a crash at a Polish air show recently. Horrible sight, seeing the pictures and the pilots practically vapourised :'(
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Tell me about it... there was a crash at a Polish air show recently. Horrible sight, seeing the pictures and the pilots practically vapourised :'(
You mean the one were the guy who filmed it walks through the mess of heads arms and legs? there is a picture of it at getbig somewhere were the Mig is just crashing right in the middle of let's say 200 people and the Pilot ejecting.
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You mean the one were the guy who filmed it walks through the mess of heads arms and legs? there is a picture of it at getbig somewhere were the Mig is just crashing right in the middle of let's say 200 people and the Pilot ejecting.
Possibly, the pilot is wearing a yellow jumpsuit:
Harsh...
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You mean the one were the guy who filmed it walks through the mess of heads arms and legs? there is a picture of it at getbig somewhere were the Mig is just crashing right in the middle of let's say 200 people and the Pilot ejecting.
I think this is the video you're talking about.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3320850772548519355&q=Ukraine+Air+Show&total=46&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
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I think this is the video you're talking about.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3320850772548519355&q=Ukraine+Air+Show&total=46&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
fucking crazy
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Actually what they did was hit the pentagon with a missile and then made an entire Jumbo jet vanish!
they took all the parts, the hundreds of thousands of parts and filed all the serial numbers down and distributed all of it to scrap heaps around the country.
to pull this off, they got conspiratorial cooperation from the pilots of the plane, the ground crew at the air port, the gate crew at the terminal, the air traffic controllers, long range radar crew, the people who issue transponder codes, the FAA, etc...
AND
They hired mean nasty patriotic Americans who felt it was in the country's best interest for them to MURDER all the people on the plane.
NOT TO MENTION
conspiratorial cooperation from all the people at what air field the plane landed including more air traffic controllers, people int eh FAA, ground crews etc...
this makes loads of sense guys! I don't know why anyone hasn't thought of it before! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Actually what they did was hit the pentagon with a missile and then made an entire Jumbo jet vanish!
they took all the parts, the hundreds of thousands of parts and filed all the serial numbers down and distributed all of it to scrap heaps around the country.
to pull this off, they got conspiratorial cooperation from the pilots of the plane, the ground crew at the air port, the gate crew at the terminal, the air traffic controllers, long range radar crew, the people who issue transponder codes, the FAA, etc...
AND
They hired mean nasty patriotic Americans who felt it was in the country's best interest for them to MURDER all the people on the plane.
NOT TO MENTION
conspiratorial cooperation from all the people at what air field the plane landed including more air traffic controllers, people int eh FAA, ground crews etc...
this makes loads of sense guys! I don't know why anyone hasn't thought of it before! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
I never asked this since I'll be honest the whole 9/11 thing doesn't interest me that much I like to use my spare time for other things and god know I don't have enough time to keep on top of all topics.
But here is my question: I think when ever they have an aircrash they take all the broken parts and build them together in a big hangar, is there any record of this beeing done with this particular airplane?
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I never asked this since I'll be honest the whole 9/11 thing doesn't interest me that much I like to use my spare time for other things and god know I don't have enough time to keep on top of all topics.
But here is my question: I think when ever they have an aircrash they take all the broken parts and build them together in a big hangar, is there any record of this beeing done with this particular airplane?
I'm not sure. I'd be interested in knowing the answer and if they didn't i would first conclude that's it's because much of it vaporized due to the fact is was full of fuel.
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I'm not sure. I'd be interested in knowing the answer and if they didn't i would first conclude that's it's because much of it vaporized due to the fact is was full of fuel.
yea sure... but so does any airplane if it crashes, I remember a case were an airplane (767?) nose dived into the ground, I mean there was litterlay only letter size pieces left and they still did their best to put the puzzle together.
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yea sure... but so does any airplane if it crashes, I remember a case were an airplane (767?) nose dived into the ground, I mean there was litterlay only letter size pieces left and they still did their best to put the puzzle together.
Well maybe they did try and put it back together
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Well maybe they did try and put it back together
well are there any prove that they did? are there any written news that some of the relatives from the people who were in the plain received bodyparts? Surely there must be something left things don't just disappear. Or do they?
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well are there any prove that they did? are there any written news that some of the relatives from the people who were in the plain received bodyparts? Surely there must be something left things don't just disappear. Or do they?
No doubt.
My knowledge of the 9/11 conspiracy movement and related arguments and issues were rooted in a 4 month or so exchange i had with 240 on this about a year ago. While i don't share 240's conclusions, I learned a great deal from him and others about 9/11 and why there are questions about the official stories.
I never got that deep into that question and am assuming it was done. I'm not that motivated to find out although i can ask some friend of mind where i might find that info next time i talk to them.
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No doubt.
My knowledge of the 9/11 conspiracy movement and related arguments and issues were rooted in a 4 month or so exchange i had with 240 on this about a year ago. While i don't share 240's conclusions, I learned a great deal from him and others about 9/11 and why there are questions about the official stories.
I never got that deep into that question and am assuming it was done. I'm not that motivated to find out although i can ask some friend of mind where i might find that info next time i talk to them.
It's kinda sad isn't it, young partly educated males, we should be all over 9/11 reading every webpage soaking up every bit of information and juggling with all the different aspect of this story.
But instead we like to discuss why Ronnie will not make it this year and why Jay resembles a fridge. :-\
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It's kinda sad isn't it, young partly educated males, we should be all over 9/11 reading every webpage soaking up every bit of information and juggling with all the different aspect of this story.
But instead we like to discuss why Ronnie will not make it this year and why Jay resembles a fridge. :-\
Yep, you have a great point. they should learn also to differentiate between garbage and facts.
Reading web pages and such provided by Conspiracy theorist have shown me they are usually very slanted and bend or spin the facts.
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Yep, you have a great point. they should learn also to differentiate between garbage and facts.
Reading web pages and such provided by Conspiracy theorist have shown me they are usually very slanted and bend or spin the facts.
Oh I get you, I call myself open minded and liberal but these guys take the "open minded" thing to a whole new level, i mean go to ATS and you're head starts spinning.
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No doubt.
My knowledge of the 9/11 conspiracy movement and related arguments and issues were rooted in a 4 month or so exchange i had with 240 on this about a year ago. While i don't share 240's conclusions, I learned a great deal from him and others about 9/11 and why there are questions about the official stories.
I never got that deep into that question and am assuming it was done. I'm not that motivated to find out although i can ask some friend of mind where i might find that info next time i talk to them.
My conclusions have since evolved.
The FBI has said in court filings by its own people that there were 85 pentagon camera angles. Pentagon said "only those still frames from two cameras - all other cameras malfunctioned". You can choose who to believe.
They never rebuilt the 2 planes from Shanksville, or Pentagon. You tell me why. NTSB, FAA, federal regulations all REQUIRE IT. You tell me why.
Rudy didn't pull a crime scene on the towers, in violation of federal law. Spitzer didn't prosecute. They both got rich promotions ;) You tell me why.
I'll tell you why. Cause Americans are too dumb to understand global economics and energy, and cause those in charge here wanted to make their friends richer. We needed to tap Iraqi oil, and afghan was outr step in the door (plus afghan oil).
911 was under-investigated. This was intentional. 911 wrapped up many loose ends and gave us ability to declare wars we needed. Stark - I saw a post you made about the US empire nearing end - I disagree - our Hunt oil company just signed a deal with the Kurds. Yes, texas now control oil exploration rights in the oil-rich north.
Don't tell me it's not about oil anymore. Greenspan admitted it. ROve admitted there were no WMD. Are those two men now libs too?
Look, we're conquerors in a world where we no longer have sustainable competitive advantages. If we can get their oil, I support the fucking war. If you are willing to sign up to go, that is your choice. So be it. Not many people here would end the war and bring strangers home if it meant $15 per gallon in gas. So let the troops fight. Let the war go on indefinitely - as it was planned.
I said it 2 years ago - Iraq wasn't designed to win - just to keep chaos long enough to 1) run up bills to make companies rich, and 2) Keep sustained chaos long enough to justify the 80% oil laws being put into effect. US firms get paid well from them.
Thats why I quit following politics, and why frankly, I support the war now.
We're conquerors and we're taking their fcking oil. You can be a dummy and tell me it's about WMD. You can say 911 was 19 arabs bringing down 8 buildings. Sure. You believe that.
Back to your topic - I believe that white plane photographed in the air afterwards (youve seen the pics right? white AWAC) buzzed the pentagon and put the projectile into the building.
I'm not sure. I'd be interested in knowing the answer and if they didn't i would first conclude that's it's because much of it vaporized due to the fact is was full of fuel.
SOrry - jet fuel can't burn hot enough to vaporize steel and titanium. Please show me one plane crash in history where the plane "vaporized". They shred, baby. SHould have been bodies and debris for blocks. Blood. Fire. luggage. You feel me?
SHit, there was 1 identical clean hole thru all three buildings, and enough debris on the unscathed lawn to fit in teh back of a pickup truck. Reporters begged for days "we see no plane, mr rumsfeld". Initial walkthru's - no plane. Then the army men inside carried out something under a blue tarp. Missile fuselage? Who knows.
zogby 2007 - two thirds of americans believe WTC7 was controlled demo.
zogby 2007 - 51% of americans believe GB?DC were involved in 911.
Our generation will know but that shit doesnt matter. History will blame 19 arabs - and somehow saddam - and they'll never talk about the poor investigation after 441 days.
LOL... how did I get sucked back into this 911 stuff?
It's old news now. World knows it was an inside job. Everyone in DC knows. Everyone at colleges, workplaces knows. From 06 to 07, a great deals of blanks/hispanics populations learned (trickle down from the web from schools?)
Loose change final cut - part 3 - is supposed to be undebunkable - everything on that tape was evidence presented by the govt itself - no supposition whatsoever. It'll prove the case to those who still believe 'official story'.
And it wont matter. Everyone will retire, we'll ahve 3 wars to tangle with. But we'll fuck the chinese with our oil baby. And we'll stay a stonger america for anoter 50 years.
we're all conquerors, baby. would you support invading X nation if it meant you could live in a mansion? Yes. WOuld you support it if it meant NOT living in a hut? yes. They'd do it to us if they could. It's not morally right - but govts use a utilitarian compass. And while your morals hurt, you know deep down, you're glad they're getting their hands dirty so you can live well.
Rant off. have a nice day lol...
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My conclusions have since evolved.
The FBI has said in court filings by its own people that there were 85 pentagon camera angles. Pentagon said "only those still frames from two cameras - all other cameras malfunctioned". You can choose who to believe.
They never rebuilt the 2 planes from Shanksville, or Pentagon. You tell me why. NTSB, FAA, federal regulations all REQUIRE IT. You tell me why.
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I'm afraid that the whole 9/11 thing get to the same level as the Kennedy assassination... we all knew it wasn't Oswald and we all know by now who did it... but we cannot prove it for the life of it.
Now Kennedy was ONE man... 9/11 cost 3k people their life + all the "fallout" what ever action was directly linked to 9/11...can we afforded to forget or brush it under the carpet?
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My conclusions have since evolved.
The FBI has said in court filings by its own people that there were 85 pentagon camera angles. Pentagon said "only those still frames from two cameras - all other cameras malfunctioned". You can choose who to believe.
They never rebuilt the 2 planes from Shanksville, or Pentagon. You tell me why. NTSB, FAA, federal regulations all REQUIRE IT. You tell me why.
Rudy didn't pull a crime scene on the towers, in violation of federal law. Spitzer didn't prosecute. They both got rich promotions ;) You tell me why.
I'll tell you why. Cause Americans are too dumb to understand global economics and energy, and cause those in charge here wanted to make their friends richer. We needed to tap Iraqi oil, and afghan was outr step in the door (plus afghan oil).
911 was under-investigated. This was intentional. 911 wrapped up many loose ends and gave us ability to declare wars we needed. Stark - I saw a post you made about the US empire nearing end - I disagree - our Hunt oil company just signed a deal with the Kurds. Yes, texas now control oil exploration rights in the oil-rich north.
Don't tell me it's not about oil anymore. Greenspan admitted it. ROve admitted there were no WMD. Are those two men now libs too?
Look, we're conquerors in a world where we no longer have sustainable competitive advantages. If we can get their oil, I support the fucking war. If you are willing to sign up to go, that is your choice. So be it. Not many people here would end the war and bring strangers home if it meant $15 per gallon in gas. So let the troops fight. Let the war go on indefinitely - as it was planned.
I said it 2 years ago - Iraq wasn't designed to win - just to keep chaos long enough to 1) run up bills to make companies rich, and 2) Keep sustained chaos long enough to justify the 80% oil laws being put into effect. US firms get paid well from them.
Thats why I quit following politics, and why frankly, I support the war now.
We're conquerors and we're taking their fcking oil. You can be a dummy and tell me it's about WMD. You can say 911 was 19 arabs bringing down 8 buildings. Sure. You believe that.
Back to your topic - I believe that white plane photographed in the air afterwards (youve seen the pics right? white AWAC) buzzed the pentagon and put the projectile into the building.
SOrry - jet fuel can't burn hot enough to vaporize steel and titanium. Please show me one plane crash in history where the plane "vaporized". They shred, baby. SHould have been bodies and debris for blocks. Blood. Fire. luggage. You feel me?
SHit, there was 1 identical clean hole thru all three buildings, and enough debris on the unscathed lawn to fit in teh back of a pickup truck. Reporters begged for days "we see no plane, mr rumsfeld". Initial walkthru's - no plane. Then the army men inside carried out something under a blue tarp. Missile fuselage? Who knows.
zogby 2007 - two thirds of americans believe WTC7 was controlled demo.
zogby 2007 - 51% of americans believe GB?DC were involved in 911.
Our generation will know but that shit doesnt matter. History will blame 19 arabs - and somehow saddam - and they'll never talk about the poor investigation after 441 days.
LOL... how did I get sucked back into this 911 stuff?
It's old news now. World knows it was an inside job. Everyone in DC knows. Everyone at colleges, workplaces knows. From 06 to 07, a great deals of blanks/hispanics populations learned (trickle down from the web from schools?)
Loose change final cut - part 3 - is supposed to be undebunkable - everything on that tape was evidence presented by the govt itself - no supposition whatsoever. It'll prove the case to those who still believe 'official story'.
And it wont matter. Everyone will retire, we'll ahve 3 wars to tangle with. But we'll fuck the chinese with our oil baby. And we'll stay a stonger america for anoter 50 years.
we're all conquerors, baby. would you support invading X nation if it meant you could live in a mansion? Yes. WOuld you support it if it meant NOT living in a hut? yes. They'd do it to us if they could. It's not morally right - but govts use a utilitarian compass. And while your morals hurt, you know deep down, you're glad they're getting their hands dirty so you can live well.
Rant off. have a nice day lol...
Careful not to pull a brain muscle 240!
How's the family? Haven't heard form you in a while since your retirement from politics :)
You ask very good questions and make some great points.
I support the full investigation of the events of 9/11 even though my reasons or suspicions may differ from yours.
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reading that over...
Do I support the neocon agenda?
Perhaps. I don't like the pilfering of our treasury, but the tax dollars have been keeping dow high along with all the jobs created.
And that oil... china would be growing very quickly with unfettered access to all the oil they could buy from Iraq.
SO perhaps I do support it now. Go figure. But one thing...
THe difference between a global realist - ME - and a neotaint (many here) - is HONESTY.
I have the fucking sack to admit that I support a war based on lies because I like America to be richer and stronger than other nations. You, on the other hand, are cowards. You hide behind ideology and propaganda like WMD, and claim you're first in heaven for it. You're scared. Every day, the lie unravels more and you don't have the cock to just admit it.
Libs - I respect your moral authority - you certainly have the high ground.
But, in the real world, a lib running the place would make us weak in the world. Kuscinish is a great man, but he'd be the US' downfall. Rudy is a scumbag who admittd on CNN he was told the towers will fall when no one else was warned -
Rudy will keep food on my table. Kuscinish won't.
However, you neotaints falling for Rudy's fearmongering - you are idiots. Bush knew about 9/11 on Aug 5 of 2001. Isreal knew. Germans knew. THey all knew. It had to be allowed to happen.
SO get off your moral high horses, neotaints.
And come up with a better plan, libs.
You're both wrong.
AMerican will heal under hilary and the war will continue. I was right 2 years ago about iraq, and I"m right now.
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I'm afraid that the whole 9/11 thing get to the same level as the Kennedy assassination... we all knew it wasn't Oswald and we all know by now who did it... but we cannot prove it for the life of it.
Now Kennedy was ONE man... 9/11 cost 3k people their life + all the "fallout" what ever action was directly linked to 9/11...can we afforded to forget or brush it under the carpet?
JFK was doing some stuff that many considered treason - weakening US positions in asia because it was morally right.
We got 40 years of good beneficial relationshps based upon nam.
We're talking about 50 trillion worth of oil here, and leverage over chinese. 7000 americans die every day. They sped up the deaths of 3000 and paid $3.1 mil to their families for it. It's horrible, but its how nations operate.
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Careful not to pull a brain muscle 240!
How's the family? Haven't heard form you in a while since your retirement from politics :)
You ask very good questions and make some great points.
I support the full investigation of the events of 9/11 even though my reasons or suspicions may differ from yours.
haha thanks man, family is great.
I've come SO full circle on 911, it's unbelievable. Once I learned about the economic motives and what bad shape we were in, fall 2001, shit...
I doubt I'd even watch an investigation now. Everyone WILL get away with it. Our generation will know. But after that? Shit will matter about as much as pearl harbor matters to us.
BUT
We'll have their fucking oil ;)
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haha thanks man, family is great.
I've come SO full circle on 911, it's unbelievable. Once I learned about the economic motives and what bad shape we were in, fall 2001, shit...
I doubt I'd even watch an investigation now. Everyone WILL get away with it. Our generation will know. But after that? Shit will matter about as much as pearl harbor matters to us.
BUT
We'll have their fucking oil ;)
Question is for how long
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Question is for how long
til it runs out.
then?
south american alliance coincidentally develops WMD ;)
hugo chavel and - whoa - world's 5th? largest oil reserve - good morning.
Hugo goes to the gallows and we milk them.
Why do you think
1) hugo's trying to hard to form a S. American alliance, and
2) media is branding him as crazy?
Shit, hugo has done his OWN investigation into 911 on behalf of the world, and it's ten times more extensive than our own investigation was.
But/ he's sitting on oil we need. And he won't sell exclusively to us below market rates. So he's an enemy.
In 15 years, president chelsea will be telling us about WMD in venezueala, and beach bum and The COach will be nodding along. ;)
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til it runs out.
then?
south american alliance coincidentally develops WMD ;)
hugo chavel and - whoa - world's 5th? largest oil reserve - good morning.
Hugo goes to the gallows and we milk them.
Why do you think
1) hugo's trying to hard to form a S. American alliance, and
2) media is branding him as crazy?
Shit, hugo has done his OWN investigation into 911 on behalf of the world, and it's ten times more extensive than our own investigation was.
But/ he's sitting on oil we need. And he won't sell exclusively to us below market rates. So he's an enemy.
In 15 years, president chelsea will be telling us about WMD in venezueala, and beach bum and The COach will be nodding along. ;)
hahah Hugo is my hero... he apparently paid for monthly bus tickets for the Pensioner's in London and London is doing something in return I cannot remember the full details.
I remember watching the docu when he won the Election and it was filmed when he nearly got arrested after the rich fucks in that country tried to reelect their favourite... first time I saw him I was like, here is a man that will die under strange circumstance in a plane crash or Helicopter crash not far in the future. ;)
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He can't go fast enough. Thanks 240 signing me up to invade Venezuela. Dude they're in South America...i bet they have huge friggen bugs..I don't do bugs man..how about iceland..no bugs and I like snow. Pick a cold country please.
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hahah Hugo is my hero... he apparently paid for monthly bus tickets for the Pensioner's in London and London is doing something in return I cannot remember the full details.
I remember watching the docu when he won the Election and it was filmed when he nearly got arrested after the rich fucks in that country tried to reelect their favourite... first time I saw him I was like, here is a man that will die under strange circumstance in a plane crash or Helicopter crash not far in the future. ;)
hugo is trying to form an alliance with cuba and other nations.
cause IF iraq, iran, syria, afghan, saudis all had an alliance, guess what? We wouldn't be picking them off one by one as we are now.
SO, while technically the man is right in calling us conquerors and saying we pulled 911...
he's wrong because he sits on oil we want/need to continue living this well.
I respect the man who wants to invade hugo for oil
I disrespect the coward who says we should invade because hugo says mean things.
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He can't go fast enough. Thanks 240 signing me up to invade Venezuela. Dude they're in South America...i bet they have huge friggen bugs..I don't do bugs man..how about iceland..no bugs and I like snow. Pick a cold country please.
i appreciate your military service, man.
hopefully hugo will see iran fall, and will begging to sell us oil at a discount ;)
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Since ur here I will eat crow and say...I WAS WRONG U WERE RIGHT. We're going in man...never thought it would happen but i really think we're going to hit these guys..no ground war but we're going to bomb before Israel does and we have real problems.
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yeah, but in the long run, we'll oust the iranian extremist leaders, and we'll sure as hell get a firm grasp on the BS they're pushing into iraq, and we'll sure as hell get permission to put in a pipeline. they'd rather allow a US pipeline than lose their power.
it's how the world works. if youre hungry, you'll rob your neighbor for food. luckily our nations' planners are looking ahead to our grandkids' hunger, and solving the problem now. one more generation and those idiots would have quit killing each other over the koran and centurys old grudges, and started consolidating power and made long term alliances with china/russia - as iran is trying to do now.
is it an unjust attack? sure, baby. but is it necessary? Yep.
if we can take out X amount of facilities, and get the govt to cowtoe to our demands, we can put in the pipeline from afghan, thru iran, thru iraq.
does it make one sick to their stomach? sure. does 911 smell of rotten fish? sure also. but we cannot sotp any of it. all we can do is sit back and enjoy the quality of life that the fruits of these battles will deliver to us. Toodles!~
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and HH - maybe the rampup to war is designed to scare those fuckers stright. behind closed doors, the same folks who were on the phone with saddam saying "give us oil contracts or we'll bomb you for WMD" are probably on the horn with the mullahs.
Will they give up their oil and a % of their nation's long term worth? Or will they go to the gallows and let their country turn into a clusterfvck. The outcome is the same - we're managing that oil, bitches.
so maybe they'll crack. you can be sure the offer is on the table. no wonder they don't like us lol...
and if you think about it... they're hoarding oil, right? Just cause they're born on it... well... if my neighbor has an apple tree he's squandering every year, and i"m eating pig shit... I'm going to try to politely get some apples. If he says no, I'm going to point my rifles at him. I'm going to amass my gang. I'm going to scare him. And if he doesn't falter, i'm just going to take them one day.
so is the war justified? LOL.. maybe it is. Maybe it is.
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...And it wont matter. Everyone will retire, we'll ahve 3 wars to tangle with. But we'll fuck the chinese with our oil baby. And we'll stay a stonger america for anoter 50 years.
we're all conquerors, baby. would you support invading X nation if it meant you could live in a mansion? Yes. WOuld you support it if it meant NOT living in a hut? yes. They'd do it to us if they could. It's not morally right - but govts use a utilitarian compass. And while your morals hurt, you know deep down, you're glad they're getting their hands dirty so you can live well.
Rant off. have a nice day lol...
You are assuming that the multinational corporations that control the oil give one shit about america or its safety.
Corporations have shown allegiance to two things: the aggrandizement of power and the dollar. In that sense, nationalism is quaint and vestigial. Halliburton is a Saudi company. The single largest private contractor for the US armed forces is a foreign company.
The PSAs with Iraq leave oil ownership with the Iraqis but tie control of the oil to these multinational corporations for decades to come irrespective of the government in Iraq.
In other words, we do not fight for the american way of life. We fight for the benefit of corporations.
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You are assuming that the multinational corporations that control the oil give one shit about america or its safety.
Corporations have shown allegiance to two things: the aggrandizement of power and the dollar. In that sense, nationalism is quaint and vestigial. Halliburton is a Saudi company. The single largest private contractor for the US armed forces is a foreign company.
The PSAs with Iraq leave oil ownership with the Iraqis but tie control of the oil to these multinational corporations for decades to come irrespective of the government in Iraq.
In other words, we do not fight for the american way of life. We fight for the benefit of corporations.
I see the corporations as an inevitability. They are how the world is to be run now. An eventuality. I don't believe they can in any way be stopped. So I can't worry about them. All I can focus upon is what will give me the best chance at a strong america.
stepping back and giving iraq/iran 20 years to get their shit together... what would have happened? ALsmot certainly they would have choked the USA out on oil.
Many of the corps are run by Americans, so I doubt they'd let this place fall down. USA will be the HQ for mgmt of the worlds resources, if by location alone. Maybe, one day, things will get poor here. But the corp takeover is a gradual thing which will happen fully long after I"m gone, I'm sure.
I see anything we do as simply bitching about it. If someone ran for president and vowed to stop the corps, we all know what would happen to him. Media would ignore him, marginialize his chances. Hi Ron Paul ;)
It's over now. It cannot and will not be stopped. All we can do is enjoy the best quality of life we can now. Is it pessimistic? Sure. But eisenhower called it in 1960 and 47 years later, we see he was right. COrps are growing. It's gradual, but it's inevitable in a world with limited resources and conflicting ideologies.
I'd be most happy if thye'd share their oil, we'd share our wheat, and everyone would play nice. But they're asshole, and we're assholes. I"m just happy my assholes are winning. :-\
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I've always liked and read your past 9/11 articles and research. Great stuff, and I largely agree with your assertions regarding the "War for Oil." We have a way of life here in the US that we are used to, and there are some ugly things we must do to maintain it. How much would gas cost if we didn't have a presence in the Middle East? How expensive do things have to be here in the US before we as citizens would accept occupations in other countries? While a rich "morally superior" liberal wouldn't mind paying 8-10 bucks for a gallon of gas, most working schmoes certainly would....and I'd contend that the vast majority of those schmoes would like for our military to go get that oil to make gas prices cheaper so it wouldn't fuck up their way of life(the whole white picket fence and accumulating debt and all that :P)
But a few questions remain, as I do not think oil alone is the end all of discussions regarding middle east foreign policy, military deployment, and politics here in the US. What about
- the continuing fall of the US Dollar? Countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia are looking to ditch the dollar in favor of Euros, or at the very most, diversifying its assets. China is diversifying and has openly threatened us economically. Isn't this what Saddam did prior to us invading?
- the continuing question of a possible formation of the NAU(North American Union) and the construction of a NAFTA Superhighway. We just opened up our roads and highways to legions of Mexican trucks. This is something I called over 3 years ago, btw. The planned currency for the merger of the US, Canada, and Mexico is the Amero.
- relationships with other oil-producing nations? I don't see why we can't be friends with Russia. I believe they potentially have the largest oil reserves in the world in Siberia, of which is largely untapped due to a lack of technological innovations to efficiently harvest the oil. In addition, why not increased drilling in North America?
Here is a table to US oil imports:
Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country Jul-07 Jun-07 YTD 2007 Jul-06 Jan - July 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CANADA 1,797 1,873 1,839 1,624 1,742
MEXICO 1,469 1,392 1,458 1,561 1,662
SAUDI ARABIA 1,434 1,501 1,421 1,264 1,400
VENEZUELA 1,167 1,135 1,117 1,191 1,161
NIGERIA 890 893 1,002 1,014 1,097
ALGERIA 520 504 500 413 314
IRAQ 460 573 475 592 553
ANGOLA 392 502 542 666 480
COLOMBIA 207 143 122 144 165
KUWAIT 197 263 196 155 162
LIBYA 165 144 81 104 61
UNITED KINGDOM 162 127 121 229 146
ECUADOR 159 166 189 170 264
BRAZIL 147 121 160 187 121
EQUATORIAL GUINEA 113 69 64 31 67
Are you telling me that Russian and other countries, and of course, with our own increased drilling, that we cannot make up for the numbers of barrels coming to us from the Middle East?
- and lastly, the question of Peak Oil and alternate energy sources. Do we not simply have a viable alternate energy source?
Thanks.
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My conclusions have since evolved.
The FBI has said in court filings by its own people that there were 85 pentagon camera angles. Pentagon said "only those still frames from two cameras - all other cameras malfunctioned". You can choose who to believe.
They never rebuilt the 2 planes from Shanksville, or Pentagon. You tell me why. NTSB, FAA, federal regulations all REQUIRE IT. You tell me why.
Rudy didn't pull a crime scene on the towers, in violation of federal law. Spitzer didn't prosecute. They both got rich promotions ;) You tell me why.
I'll tell you why. Cause Americans are too dumb to understand global economics and energy, and cause those in charge here wanted to make their friends richer. We needed to tap Iraqi oil, and afghan was outr step in the door (plus afghan oil).
911 was under-investigated. This was intentional. 911 wrapped up many loose ends and gave us ability to declare wars we needed. Stark - I saw a post you made about the US empire nearing end - I disagree - our Hunt oil company just signed a deal with the Kurds. Yes, texas now control oil exploration rights in the oil-rich north.
Don't tell me it's not about oil anymore. Greenspan admitted it. ROve admitted there were no WMD. Are those two men now libs too?
Look, we're conquerors in a world where we no longer have sustainable competitive advantages. If we can get their oil, I support the fucking war. If you are willing to sign up to go, that is your choice. So be it. Not many people here would end the war and bring strangers home if it meant $15 per gallon in gas. So let the troops fight. Let the war go on indefinitely - as it was planned.
I said it 2 years ago - Iraq wasn't designed to win - just to keep chaos long enough to 1) run up bills to make companies rich, and 2) Keep sustained chaos long enough to justify the 80% oil laws being put into effect. US firms get paid well from them.
Thats why I quit following politics, and why frankly, I support the war now.
We're conquerors and we're taking their fcking oil. You can be a dummy and tell me it's about WMD. You can say 911 was 19 arabs bringing down 8 buildings. Sure. You believe that.
Back to your topic - I believe that white plane photographed in the air afterwards (youve seen the pics right? white AWAC) buzzed the pentagon and put the projectile into the building.
SOrry - jet fuel can't burn hot enough to vaporize steel and titanium. Please show me one plane crash in history where the plane "vaporized". They shred, baby. SHould have been bodies and debris for blocks. Blood. Fire. luggage. You feel me?
SHit, there was 1 identical clean hole thru all three buildings, and enough debris on the unscathed lawn to fit in teh back of a pickup truck. Reporters begged for days "we see no plane, mr rumsfeld". Initial walkthru's - no plane. Then the army men inside carried out something under a blue tarp. Missile fuselage? Who knows.
zogby 2007 - two thirds of americans believe WTC7 was controlled demo.
zogby 2007 - 51% of americans believe GB?DC were involved in 911.
Our generation will know but that shit doesnt matter. History will blame 19 arabs - and somehow saddam - and they'll never talk about the poor investigation after 441 days.
LOL... how did I get sucked back into this 911 stuff?
It's old news now. World knows it was an inside job. Everyone in DC knows. Everyone at colleges, workplaces knows. From 06 to 07, a great deals of blanks/hispanics populations learned (trickle down from the web from schools?)
Loose change final cut - part 3 - is supposed to be undebunkable - everything on that tape was evidence presented by the govt itself - no supposition whatsoever. It'll prove the case to those who still believe 'official story'.
And it wont matter. Everyone will retire, we'll ahve 3 wars to tangle with. But we'll fuck the chinese with our oil baby. And we'll stay a stonger america for anoter 50 years.
we're all conquerors, baby. would you support invading X nation if it meant you could live in a mansion? Yes. WOuld you support it if it meant NOT living in a hut? yes. They'd do it to us if they could. It's not morally right - but govts use a utilitarian compass. And while your morals hurt, you know deep down, you're glad they're getting their hands dirty so you can live well.
Rant off. have a nice day lol...
Good to have you back on the Politics Board 240!
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Good to have you back on the Politics Board 240!
thanks man.
I once read that most young people are dems when they want to change the world, then become repubs when the learn and accept the realities of the world. I think that's where I am now. I'm in my 30s now, have a family to take care of, seeing friends start to pass away, that shit opens your eyes.
I'm past believing I can change the world in much way - in a macro way. All I can do is be nice to those around me and take care of my family. There is a world system in place - very slow and gradual - but it's in place. The more I learn, the less I understand. It's bigger than any of us, and all we're doing it bitching about it or defending it. It's like discussing the weather all day. It cannot be changed.
I haven't been to prisonplanet in 3 months now. and I tell ya, my days are a lot more peaceful not worrying about that stuff all day long. I was hooked for 18 months, and while alex jones is pretty correct about stuff, IMO he's naive about the longer term things.
911 was the biggest day in our history. And it's good everyone knows about it being an inside job - as it means the next false attack will have to be bloodless - as people jsut wouldn't buy it this time.
I guess this is growing up. Ron Paul is the finest repub onstage. Official polls have him at 2% but he wins every online poll. that's fishy. But, Paul wants to close the fed. THe market would collapse. He wants to pull out of overseas interference. Goodbye assured mutual destruciton with RUS and China. He wants to leave UN. Good luck with political influence when cuba or canada decides to get froggy and we have no veto power.
it's fun to be back here tho!
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keep posting here 240. they are always awesome reads. baby.
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haha thanks. some of my old friends here will hate me.
I've come to the realization that yes, the wars were all about gold, oil and drugs.
Corporations are taking over slowly by the decades.
Liberals are unrealistic about USA's ability to compete in global markets in future.
Neotaints are a scared bunch relying on party and religious doctrine to justify something which completely goes against their religious beliefs.
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thanks man.
I once read that most young people are dems when they want to change the world, then become repubs when the learn and accept the realities of the world. I think that's where I am now. I'm in my 30s now, have a family to take care of, seeing friends start to pass away, that shit opens your eyes.
I'm past believing I can change the world in much way - in a macro way. All I can do is be nice to those around me and take care of my family. There is a world system in place - very slow and gradual - but it's in place. The more I learn, the less I understand. It's bigger than any of us, and all we're doing it bitching about it or defending it. It's like discussing the weather all day. It cannot be changed.
I haven't been to prisonplanet in 3 months now. and I tell ya, my days are a lot more peaceful not worrying about that stuff all day long. I was hooked for 18 months, and while alex jones is pretty correct about stuff, IMO he's naive about the longer term things.
911 was the biggest day in our history. And it's good everyone knows about it being an inside job - as it means the next false attack will have to be bloodless - as people jsut wouldn't buy it this time.
I guess this is growing up. Ron Paul is the finest repub onstage. Official polls have him at 2% but he wins every online poll. that's fishy. But, Paul wants to close the fed. THe market would collapse. He wants to pull out of overseas interference. Goodbye assured mutual destruciton with RUS and China. He wants to leave UN. Good luck with political influence when cuba or canada decides to get froggy and we have no veto power.
it's fun to be back here tho!
Interesting post...
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THe difference between a global realist - ME - and a neotaint (many here) - is HONESTY.
Was you honest to everyone about your phantom cancer? ???
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Was you honest to everyone about your phantom cancer? ???
No. MattT posted my wife's personal info and encouraged people to contact her. I made up a story to scare him. It was wrong, and it was almost 3 years ago.
Are things that happened with strangers on message boards 3 years ago of great importance to you, Nordic?
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No. MattT posted my wife's personal info and encouraged people to contact her. I made up a story to scare him. It was wrong, and it was almost 3 years ago.
Are things that happened with strangers on message boards 3 years ago of great importance to you, Nordic?
Is MattT the sub 70 IQ idiot with fantasy business dealings in the non-existant city of Dubai, India?
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I'll only believe a 757 hit the pentagon when I see a 757 hitting the pentagon.Until then..............I'm NOT buying it.
Does anyone have a picture of a 757 hitting the pentagon ?
I may have somehow missed it, but would love to see the Jumbo jet strike the building.
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Does anyone have a picture of a 757 hitting the pentagon ?
I may have somehow missed it, but would love to see the Jumbo jet strike the building.
Sorry it doesn't exist... all Cameras around the building were malfunction apart from one camera ::)
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I see the corporations as an inevitability. They are how the world is to be run now. An eventuality. I don't believe they can in any way be stopped. So I can't worry about them. All I can focus upon is what will give me the best chance at a strong america.
stepping back and giving iraq/iran 20 years to get their shit together... what would have happened? ALsmot certainly they would have choked the USA out on oil.
Many of the corps are run by Americans, so I doubt they'd let this place fall down. USA will be the HQ for mgmt of the worlds resources, if by location alone. Maybe, one day, things will get poor here. But the corp takeover is a gradual thing which will happen fully long after I"m gone, I'm sure.
I see anything we do as simply bitching about it. If someone ran for president and vowed to stop the corps, we all know what would happen to him. Media would ignore him, marginialize his chances. Hi Ron Paul ;)
It's over now. It cannot and will not be stopped. All we can do is enjoy the best quality of life we can now. Is it pessimistic? Sure. But eisenhower called it in 1960 and 47 years later, we see he was right. COrps are growing. It's gradual, but it's inevitable in a world with limited resources and conflicting ideologies.
I'd be most happy if thye'd share their oil, we'd share our wheat, and everyone would play nice. But they're asshole, and we're assholes. I"m just happy my assholes are winning. :-\
I know the appeal of your idea: This world we live in is the law of the jungle. All of the niceties about morality and law and religion are fine in Mayberry, but when the rubber hits the road that stuff takes a back seat to the acquisitive success of the nation and putting food on our table. Shaw (Major Barbara) and Conrad (Heart of Darkness) wrote about this duality/hypocrisy/ambiguity of civil society and barbarism/self-interest. Surrendering to to an understanding of 'how it really is' in the world has its appeal.
I think ultimately you will recognize this truth to be like all truths--provisional. For the moment, there is a psychological security about seeing the world "as it is" and coming to terms with that understanding and doing your own thing in a friendly manner while tacitly accepting the horrors done in our name by our country. Unfortunately, life chips away at that security. Meaning that as hard as we try to hold on to our rational interpretation and acceptance of life, we have an irrational component that just doesn't let that rational understanding live on into perpetuity. You might not be able to change the world, but you will try to do so in your own way. You are born to die yet you go on living anyways. The world is pain and suffering yet you aspire to live well. You act in the face of sure doom. There is no better life purpose than to perish in the pursuit of the great and impossible.
As for accepting the corporate take-over as an gradual and inevitable; that time of corporate dominance is already here. But here's how to change that: strip US corporations of the legal fiction of 'personhood' and have federally financed elections.
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Dan Rather went on MSNBC this morning and went on a 10 minute tyrade about the conglomerates and government's contorl over the media.
His 70 mil lawsuit isn't about the money - he's already rich and will just give the money away before he dies anyway.
He said the most important thing is to put key people under oath and ask them about how companies and govt has been controlling our media.
I guess he's developing a conscience. Pretty damn funny.
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Actually what they did was hit the pentagon with a missile and then made an entire Jumbo jet vanish!
they took all the parts, the hundreds of thousands of parts and filed all the serial numbers down and distributed all of it to scrap heaps around the country.
to pull this off, they got conspiratorial cooperation from the pilots of the plane, the ground crew at the air port, the gate crew at the terminal, the air traffic controllers, long range radar crew, the people who issue transponder codes, the FAA, etc...
AND
They hired mean nasty patriotic Americans who felt it was in the country's best interest for them to MURDER all the people on the plane.
NOT TO MENTION
conspiratorial cooperation from all the people at what air field the plane landed including more air traffic controllers, people int eh FAA, ground crews etc...
this makes loads of sense guys! I don't know why anyone hasn't thought of it before! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
lol. :) True.