Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: pumpster on September 21, 2007, 07:49:32 AM
-
Getbig's reigning senior citizen along with "jpm".
Discuss
-
monster flyes.
-
.....Still crazy after all these years.
-
Wish him a happy birthday................ ............
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!
-
Happy B-Day, Vince!!!
-
..and still refusing to answer questions about what his theories on hypertrophy are.
-
happy birthday vince
-
Happy b-day Vince! ;D
-
HAppy Birthday sir..May you have many more !
-
Does this mean he will change his name to Vince Senile?
-
Have a Happy and Healthy Birthday Vince !
-
Happy Birthday Old Man Basile!!!!
Just please try to leave some cake and ice cream for the others fat ass. ;)
-
I always wondered what it would be like to be old age pension age. Well, folks, I don't feel any different so these are still the good old days. Being a gym owner I am self-employed so don't qualify for that pension or any other perks.
Like most people who age are getting older I was going to try to get in shape for the occasion. However, I competed in athletics last March and ended up with sore knees and elbows from the hammer throw which I had never done before. I won the javelin, discus and shot against almost no one else. It pays to pick the right year to compete so that the best guys are in different categories. I learned this trick from my mate Melvin Goodrum! My knees and elbows have healed now. Takes longer to heal as we age.
The interesting thing is the muscles still respond to hypertrophy training. I posted my ideas here and that thread broke the record for a serious theory discussion on this gossip board. Why some moderators feel I have an obligation to post details of what I believe here is rather ironic. No one else does that and I might put my ideas into a book in the near future. It is possible to grow big muscles rapidly at just about any age. That is the closest to the fountain of youth we are going to find. I don't believe in supplements and drugs so the iron pills are the only ones I take. Well, I hardly use free weights and am still amazed at the dumbbells who think they are better. Old beliefs just never die in bodybuilding. I prefer to cast false theories aside instead of taking them to my grave.
One thing about being a gym owner who has his own engineering factory. I hardly get time to train because there are always things to do at the gym. This week I have to modify a huge Nautilus double chest machine. I will see if I can get rid of those blasted chains that Arthur Jones stuck us with. His machines still work but Arthur is no longer with us. Some of my machines should be still working in a gym somewhere in perhaps 200 years.
Thanks to all who posted good wishes.
-
Happy B-Day Vince!
-
Hehe. Still crusty. Have a good one Vince.
/and many more
-
Happy B-day Vince.
We shall continue our discussions on this board...
-
I guess most older bodybuilders would call me crazy to post on this forum. It is a challenge to stay but I can stir with the best of them. Where are my contemporaries? They all talked big in the old days when they were winning but hardly anyone has anything to say nowadays. Seems to me they are paper tigers. If you want to stay young hang around a gym. The majority of people there are under 40. Train for hypertrophy and not health or fitness. I could never understand those guys who, like Zabo, did all that ab work for hours. I am too damn lazy to duplicate those long sessions. What you need to do is do lots (more than 5) of maximum sets to the limit with as much as you can lift for about 10 to 15 reps. In the old days we didn't know about the muscular endurance requirement of muscles. Arthur Jones influenced all thinking bodybuilders and we all reduced the number of sets. This is a huge mistake. Doug Hepburn knew more about how to get big than Arthur did. Not that any of the young guys here have a clue who to believe when it comes to training advice. I respect the knowledge that Milos has but my method is not anything like his. Surely we both can't be right?
It is rather sad that the sport has become what it is in recent decades. Drugs have been used since the 1960s and perhaps before that. However, it was hidden then and most were ashamed to be using anything. Nowadays it is absolutely insane and I wonder how many of the current professionals will celebrate their 65th birthday? Professional bodybuilding is now a dangerously high risk and an extremely low return activity. Lifting weights to look better has always been looked down on. Today it has become even lower in the minds of most intelligent people. When the 'experts' do not need to be highly educated is it any wonder that the blind lead the blind?
I picked the two activities where everyone is an expert. Bodybuilding and philosophy!
-
Happy birthday you Fucken idiot. 8)
Make that Happy birthday you BIG Fucken idiot. 8)
-
happy birthday Vince. whether you agree with him or not he is certainly a character
-
Happy Birthday you ol' cnt :D
-
Happy Birthday you ol' cnt :D
I think you mean cunt.
Happy birthday Vince
-
Happy birthday Vince, I think you're one of the more interesting posters on here and I hope you continue to share your stories, ideas and training philosophy with us.
-
I guess most older bodybuilders would call me crazy to post on this forum. It is a challenge to stay but I can stir with the best of them. Where are my contemporaries? They all talked big in the old days when they were winning but hardly anyone has anything to say nowadays. Seems to me they are paper tigers. If you want to stay young hang around a gym. The majority of people there are under 40. Train for hypertrophy and not health or fitness. I could never understand those guys who, like Zabo, did all that ab work for hours. I am too damn lazy to duplicate those long sessions. What you need to do is do lots (more than 5) of maximum sets to the limit with as much as you can lift for about 10 to 15 reps. In the old days we didn't know about the muscular endurance requirement of muscles. Arthur Jones influenced all thinking bodybuilders and we all reduced the number of sets. This is a huge mistake. Doug Hepburn knew more about how to get big than Arthur did. Not that any of the young guys here have a clue who to believe when it comes to training advice. I respect the knowledge that Milos has but my method is not anything like his. Surely we both can't be right?
It is rather sad that the sport has become what it is in recent decades. Drugs have been used since the 1960s and perhaps before that. However, it was hidden then and most were ashamed to be using anything. Nowadays it is absolutely insane and I wonder how many of the current professionals will celebrate their 65th birthday? Professional bodybuilding is now a dangerously high risk and an extremely low return activity. Lifting weights to look better has always been looked down on. Today it has become even lower in the minds of most intelligent people. When the 'experts' do not need to be highly educated is it any wonder that the blind lead the blind?
I picked the two activities where everyone is an expert. Bodybuilding and philosophy!
Spot on Vince !
Dialectical reasoning methods require the ability to slip quickly between contradictory lines of reasoning. One needs skill to develop a synthesis of one point of view with another. Where technical matters are generally confined to only one well understood frame of reference real life problems become multi-dimensional totalities.
When we think dialectically we are guided by principles not by procedures. Real life problems span multiple categories and academic disciplines. We need point-counter-point argumentation; we need emancipatory reasoning to resolve dialectical problems. We need critical thinking skills and attitudes to resolve real life problems.
Happy birthday dude
-
Surely we both can't be right?
no u cannot both be right.
This very question is why i have begun my quest to seek the ultimate method for hypertrophy. i believe it is h.i.t until i find anything which is better to my mind.
-
Make that Happy birthday you BIG Fucken idiot. 8)
JESUS! I DIDNT KNOW VINCE SPORTED SUCH A NASTY PHYSIQUE IN HIS PRIME. MASSED OUT, JACKED UP VINCE.
-
Make that Happy birthday you BIG Fucken idiot. 8)
Wow. That's a classic physique right there...
-
no u cannot both be right.
This very question is why i have begun my quest to seek the ultimate method for hypertrophy. i believe it is h.i.t until i find anything which is better to my mind.
hit for hypertrhopy! NOT ENOUGH VOLUME DUDE!
-
hit for hypertrhopy! NOT ENOUGH VOLUME DUDE!
I am conducting my personal studies....once i am in calorie surplus we will see the true results of h.i.t
-
I am conducting my personal studies....once i am in calorie surplus we will see the true results of h.i.t
good
keep us informed!
-
good
keep us informed!
;D
-
good
keep us informed!
cant wait, if i didnt have alot of fat to lose, i would begin now, but need to get lean first.
it will be interesting to see how the results go. ;)
-
he looked awesome in that picture.
-
I always wondered what it would be like to be old age pension age. Well, folks, I don't feel any different so these are still the good old days. Being a gym owner I am self-employed so don't qualify for that pension or any other perks.
Like most people who age are getting older I was going to try to get in shape for the occasion. However, I competed in athletics last March and ended up with sore knees and elbows from the hammer throw which I had never done before. I won the javelin, discus and shot against almost no one else. It pays to pick the right year to compete so that the best guys are in different categories. I learned this trick from my mate Melvin Goodrum! My knees and elbows have healed now. Takes longer to heal as we age.
The interesting thing is the muscles still respond to hypertrophy training. I posted my ideas here and that thread broke the record for a serious theory discussion on this gossip board. Why some moderators feel I have an obligation to post details of what I believe here is rather ironic. No one else does that and I might put my ideas into a book in the near future. It is possible to grow big muscles rapidly at just about any age. That is the closest to the fountain of youth we are going to find. I don't believe in supplements and drugs so the iron pills are the only ones I take. Well, I hardly use free weights and am still amazed at the dumbbells who think they are better. Old beliefs just never die in bodybuilding. I prefer to cast false theories aside instead of taking them to my grave.
One thing about being a gym owner who has his own engineering factory. I hardly get time to train because there are always things to do at the gym. This week I have to modify a huge Nautilus double chest machine. I will see if I can get rid of those blasted chains that Arthur Jones stuck us with. His machines still work but Arthur is no longer with us. Some of my machines should be still working in a gym somewhere in perhaps 200 years.
Thanks to all who posted good wishes.
Vince...do you know why Arthur used chains?
-
I guess most older bodybuilders would call me crazy to post on this forum. It is a challenge to stay but I can stir with the best of them. Where are my contemporaries? They all talked big in the old days when they were winning but hardly anyone has anything to say nowadays. Seems to me they are paper tigers. If you want to stay young hang around a gym. The majority of people there are under 40. Train for hypertrophy and not health or fitness. I could never understand those guys who, like Zabo, did all that ab work for hours. I am too damn lazy to duplicate those long sessions. What you need to do is do lots (more than 5) of maximum sets to the limit with as much as you can lift for about 10 to 15 reps. In the old days we didn't know about the muscular endurance requirement of muscles. Arthur Jones influenced all thinking bodybuilders and we all reduced the number of sets. This is a huge mistake. Doug Hepburn knew more about how to get big than Arthur did. Not that any of the young guys here have a clue who to believe when it comes to training advice. I respect the knowledge that Milos has but my method is not anything like his. Surely we both can't be right?
It is rather sad that the sport has become what it is in recent decades. Drugs have been used since the 1960s and perhaps before that. However, it was hidden then and most were ashamed to be using anything. Nowadays it is absolutely insane and I wonder how many of the current professionals will celebrate their 65th birthday? Professional bodybuilding is now a dangerously high risk and an extremely low return activity. Lifting weights to look better has always been looked down on. Today it has become even lower in the minds of most intelligent people. When the 'experts' do not need to be highly educated is it any wonder that the blind lead the blind?
I picked the two activities where everyone is an expert. Bodybuilding and philosophy!
-
Happy birthday Vince, here's to many more. Enjoy!!!!
-
Vince...do you know why Arthur used chains?
Chains were a revision to the original design, to remove momentum.
-
Arthur was a smart guy but using chains in gym equipment was not one of his best engineering solutions. Oh, I read about the supposed superiorty of chains. Let me tell you as a designer and gym owner that solution is dirty, requires lots of maintenance and is often difficult to get right. Cables and pulleys are much more gym owner friendly. He could have used much heavier chains in most of his equipment. The single half inch chains are not strong enough. Had he used 5/8th inch chains it would have been better. The machines that have double link chains such as the duo squat are strong enough and the chains last a long time. What happened with many of the Nautilus machines was that bodybuilders exceeded the capacity of weight stacks and added additional weight. Soon enough those chains and sprockets wore out. Quite amazing what the human body can do to steel chain. Gym owners don't help when they don't lubricate them frequently enough.
Carrot cake with strawberry wine!
-
Who in the hell wears their sweater underneath their t-shirt ??? ;D
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=169520.0;attach=197259;image)
What kind of cake is that anyway?
-
space cake.
-
Even in this thread is proof that nothing has changed in the 48 years I have done bodybuilding. Everyone is an expert. Even guys starting out again after figuring out what to do. Why not listen to someone who has tried most of the methods? Guess that is the easy way. Muscles are part of the brain, anyway. If you don't have the right method then you won't succeed. The vast majority of guys who lift weights never win a bodybuilding contest. Heck, most are too scared to even enter one. Guys like Goatboy wouldn't dare post a photo of himself on Getbig. Paper tigers, dreamers and wannabes are everywhere.
-
Sad pic.
Photographer Tripod at least sing 'Happy Birthday'?
Fixed.
-
Happy Birthday old fart. :D
-
Paper tigers, dreamers and wannabes are everywhere.
Good quote.
You look great in that pic..
have a happy birthday.
-
Arthur was a smart guy but using chains in gym equipment was not one of his best engineering solutions. Oh, I read about the supposed superiorty of chains. Let me tell you as a designer and gym owner that solution is dirty, requires lots of maintenance and is often difficult to get right. Cables and pulleys are much more gym owner friendly. He could have used much heavier chains in most of his equipment. The single half inch chains are not strong enough. Had he used 5/8th inch chains it would have been better. The machines that have double link chains such as the duo squat are strong enough and the chains last a long time. What happened with many of the Nautilus machines was that bodybuilders exceeded the capacity of weight stacks and added additional weight. Soon enough those chains and sprockets wore out. Quite amazing what the human body can do to steel chain. Gym owners don't help when they don't lubricate them frequently enough.
Carrot cake with strawberry wine!
I just didn't understand it.
I never liked feeling the chain & sprockets through the range of movement.
-
Happy Birthday...and keep on lifting!!!!!!
-
Carrot cake with strawberry wine!
lol. t-shirt is classic.
also, you're saying nautilus equipment used chains????
that sounds stupid.
-
happy birthday mate
i hope i can still lift at 65
-
Everyone thinks 65 is old. Believe me it is just another year for me. I haven't seen a doctor in years and years. My advices to others is to stay out of hospitals and courts! I don't use recreational drugs and never have. Steroids are best left with the underground dealers. It isn't necessary to use anabolic steroids but hardly anyone believes that. Think for yourself and research everything. Believe only what you have found out to be true and remember believing something doesn't make it true.
Bodybuilding should be a noble enterprise. Competing can be done in natural events. Leave the gear to the lunatics. Can anyone know how desperate and crazy most professionals must be to fool around with the body like they do. Instead of trusting medical people they listen to gurus who are expert in nothing at all. I say no thanks to that. Life is short. Very short. Before you know it your youth is gone and so is your motivation. Trophies and titles seem important but look at the way some treat anyone who won things in the past. They mean very little but I guess they help us transcend mediocrity. It is all an illusion.
When I was young an old man recommended that I read the best books first. Ah, but how does one know which books are the best ones? The book that had the biggest influence on me was 'Zorba the Greek'. Grasp what is important and celebrate every day that you are alive. Let other tongues praise you and honour those who love you. Don't stay on line too much or you will become like those who annoy you! Discussion boards are an epic waste of time. You won't convince anyone of anything at all that is important.
Thanks to all those who sent good wishes to me. Be good to your family and relatives, and don't waste mirrors!
-
Even in this thread is proof that nothing has changed in the 48 years I have done bodybuilding. Everyone is an expert. Even guys starting out again after figuring out what to do. Why not listen to someone who has tried most of the methods? Guess that is the easy way. Muscles are part of the brain, anyway. If you don't have the right method then you won't succeed. The vast majority of guys who lift weights never win a bodybuilding contest. Heck, most are too scared to even enter one. Guys like Goatboy wouldn't dare post a photo of himself on Getbig. Paper tigers, dreamers and wannabes are everywhere.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
go change your diaper
-
Hey Vince. You talk too much. I do a bit of scribbling myself and if there is one thing, it is: talk less. Maybe GIS Elmore Leonard's 10 Rules of writing. Can't go wrong there. ,
-
Hey Vince. You talk too much. I do a bit of scribbling myself and if there is one thing, it is: talk less. Maybe GIS Elmore Leonard's 10 Rules of writing. Can't go wrong there. ,
;D
-
Good advices, doctor! It is always refreshing to hear the opinion of a true expert.
-
Good advices, doctor! It is always refreshing to hear the opinion of a true expert.
"advices" ::)
-
Yeah, some of us use the plural of advice. We heard Arnold in Pumping Iron say, "Franco is a child, he comes to me for the advices."
-
Happy B'day Vince. Enjoy all your posts.
-
Even in this thread is proof that nothing has changed in the 48 years I have done bodybuilding. Everyone is an expert. Even guys starting out again after figuring out what to do. Why not listen to someone who has tried most of the methods?
Maybe people here would listen to you if you gave practical advice that we could put to use immediately. No one here knows how you would set up a training routine.
BTW, that t-shirt is gold. Something the guy in Napoleon Dynamite would wear. Is it a Liger?
-
Why should I, as a gym owner, give practical advice away for free? A bit like asking a doctor for free consultations. That is what we get for being bodybuilders. I have given advice about training, even at depth on this forum. Do a search and see. Or go to HST forum and search there. If you are intelligent you should be able to apply that information. If you need to be spoon fed then no one can help you. I don't charge my members for information but few bodybuilders listen to what I say. Nothing has changed in this regard and just about everyone thinks he knows all about training. I should have been a university professor and enjoyed that profession instead of opening a gym.
I got the T-shirt at Venice Beach in 2004. I got several tiger ones as a gift from a girlfriend.
-
Why should I, as a gym owner, give practical advice away for free? A bit like asking a doctor for free consultations. That is what we get for being bodybuilders. I have given advice about training, even at depth on this forum. Do a search and see. Or go to HST forum and search there. If you are intelligent you should be able to apply that information. If you need to be spoon fed then no one can help you. I don't charge my members for information but few bodybuilders listen to what I say. Nothing has changed in this regard and just about everyone thinks he knows all about training. I should have been a university professor and enjoyed that profession instead of opening a gym.
I got the T-shirt at Venice Beach in 2004. I got several tiger ones as a gift from a girlfriend.
Vince Basile invented t-shirts!
-
Hey, Goatboy, always the shit stirrer. You anonymous blokes live vicariously off those of us who actually do stuff in the Irongame.
-
"Irongame" ::)
-
That is what we get for being bodybuilders. I have given advice about training, even at depth on this forum.
No offense but I've seen recent pics of you and you are the LAST person who should be calling himself a "bodybuilder", much less giving out bodybuilding advice.
-
Look upon my works, ye
mortals wannabes, and despair....
-
If you put all the dickheads from Getbig in a line it would reach from Washington DC to Honolulu!
-
Look upon my works, ye mortals wannabes, and despair....
If that's supposed to be you in your "heyday", I will say you look in shape but nowhere near being a "bodybuilder".
-
Well, at least no one ever accused you of using gear.
My sister has bigger arms than that. And given the soft mid-section, you musta been at least 8 weeks out in that pic. ;D
-
Well, at least no one ever accused you of using gear.
My sister has bigger arms than that. And given the soft mid-section, you musta been at least 8 weeks out in that pic. ;D
I guess when that pic was taken, squat racks hadn't been invented yet :-\
-
I guess when that pic was taken, squat racks hadn't been invented yet :-\
Good thing Vince was around to invent them, huh?
(too bad he never used his invention personally)
-
Goatboy is invisible, anonymous, and irrelevant. How sad is that? Stop feeding off guys like me who have achieved plenty in the Irongame.
-
Goatboy is invisible, anonymous, and irrelevant. How sad is that? Stop feeding off guys like me who have achieved plenty in the Irongame.
This is what I was talking about above. You honestly don't look like you even do aerobics much less lift weights. Why do you pretend to be a bodybuilding expert? ???
-
Monster arm hair!
-
Monster arm hair!
And don't forget that nose. He looks like one of the seven dwarves.
-
And don't forget that nose. He looks like one of the seven dwarves.
Dopey?
(http://kendavis.files.wordpress.com/2006/08/dopey.jpg)
-
Dopey?
(http://kendavis.files.wordpress.com/2006/08/dopey.jpg)
That's the one ;D
-
Stop feeding off guys like me who have achieved plenty in the Irongame.
vince is the uncrowned mrolympia.
be civil and wish him his happy bday.
-
Look upon my works, ye mortals wannabes, and despair....
do you swim freestyle or butterfly?
-
do you swim freestyle or butterfly?
I don't think he's muscuar enough in that pic to be on the swim team.
-
Naw, Mr Olympia without drugs is not possible and never was. If I had stayed in Venice in 1968 who knows how far I would have gone in bodybuilding. The trouble was Sergio and Arnold were contemporaries and everyone else was small compared to them. I got married in 1969 moved to Sydney in 1971 and had a daughter that year. I started a gym in 1971 and taught high school. There was little motivation to train and enter contests. My last show was the 75 Mr Australia where I came last in my class thanks to some crooked judging by Arnold and Paul Graham.
I couldn't win a novice show with that physique today. Heck, most of the pro women are better, too! I might be still able to beat Arvilla, Goodrum and Goatboy! Times have changed! It still takes a lot of guts to actually get up on stage in contest condition.
-
You look somewhat better in that pic, although it still seems like you hadn't learned to do squats.
-
You look somewhat better in that pic, although it still seems like you hadn't learned to do squats.
...or calf raises, or deadlifts, and so on...
-
Back in the day even without what we know today Basile may own us but these days his look can be found in any gym but at least Vince appreciated his genetics and knew how to show it off. I hate when guys with great genetics let it go to waste, everyone should strive for their genetic potential.
-
Vince is still a lazy fat ass these days though ;)
-
Why should I, as a gym owner, give practical advice away for free? A bit like asking a doctor for free consultations. That is what we get for being bodybuilders. I have given advice about training, even at depth on this forum. Do a search and see. Or go to HST forum and search there. If you are intelligent you should be able to apply that information. If you need to be spoon fed then no one can help you. I don't charge my members for information but few bodybuilders listen to what I say. Nothing has changed in this regard and just about everyone thinks he knows all about training. I should have been a university professor and enjoyed that profession instead of opening a gym.
I got the T-shirt at Venice Beach in 2004. I got several tiger ones as a gift from a girlfriend.
Because you're making a lot of claims.
It's time to back up the big talk Vince.
You make a lot of claims about having a "DOMS" theory.
You will never be compared to Poliquin, Jones or even any of the current gurus such as Thibaudeau, DOGGCRAPP, Haycock, King, Waterbury and Simmons.
Because these guys offers their basic routines publicly, and have even backed up their routines with a basic explanation, or even beyond that.
You on the other hand, is not even remotedly close to that. You haven't posted anything that even resembles something that would qualify as a basic routine.
Surely you must have clients at your gym who's grown to become gigantic.
Show us.
-
My claims are probably true. That others don't accept them is not my problem. The more science people know the worse they are at accepting theories. To me those people are poor scientists.
Most of the guys mentioned haven't nailed hypertrophy theory. A couple of those people I haven't read about.
A theory might be true even if no one else accepts or believes it.
The really sad thing is science has completely ignored bodybuilding as a valid study area. In the vacuum arise countless experts who can't produce much at all. I give full credit to anyone who can get results in others. The bottom line is no one seems to be able to succeed with everyone. The unpleasant truth is most guys who train hard aren't growing much if at all. Why is this so? Why, with all that knowledge do so many get so little out of training?
Hedgehog, you really surprise me. I have posted some basic routines. No one here believes what I say is possible. Look at the wannabes here on Getbig. I smile at guys like Goodrum and others who think they know heaps but aren't growing. Just about everyone believes you need drugs to get big. Oh, yeah, you have to have the genetics, whatever that is. This sport is filled to the brim with bullshit and rationalizations. No wonder the truth is still hidden from those clanging away with dumbbells! If all those experts know about growing muscles why do so many have so much trouble? Part of the problem is knowing the truth isn't enough. You have to be able to apply the correct theory via the technology of hypertrophy training. Many cannot put enough mechanical tension on their target muscles. I have seen guys unable to stimulate their arms to grow because their deltoids do most of the work. These guys will be forever searching for the right method but the sad truth is no method can help them.
The bodybuilding magazines have been devoid of much in the way of helpful theories for decades now.
-
Goatboy and his disciples make me laugh. Can they do 10 ass to the floor reps in the full squat with 400 pounds? I did that back in 1975. Didn't make my thighs much bigger. Goatboy is evidence that just about anyone can pose as an expert in bodybuilding. All you have to do is knock others and be persistent. You don't have to know anything, be anybody, or a success in this field. That really is a joke on everyone. No wonder so many of those guys remain anonymous because any disclosure of the truth would be a monumental self-owning of legendary proportions.
-
Goatboy and his disciples make me laugh. Can they do 10 ass to the floor reps in the full squat with 400 pounds? I did that back in 1975. Didn't make my thighs much bigger. Goatboy is evidence that just about anyone can pose as an expert in bodybuilding. All you have to do is knock others and be persistent. You don't have to know anything, be anybody, or a success in this field. That really is a joke on everyone. No wonder so many of those guys remain anonymous because any disclosure of the truth would be a monumental self-owning of legendary proportions.
True.
-
Goatboy and his disciples make me laugh. Can they do 10 ass to the floor reps in the full squat with 400 pounds? I did that back in 1975. Didn't make my thighs much bigger. Goatboy is evidence that just about anyone can pose as an expert in bodybuilding. All you have to do is knock others and be persistent. You don't have to know anything, be anybody, or a success in this field. That really is a joke on everyone. No wonder so many of those guys remain anonymous because any disclosure of the truth would be a monumental self-owning of legendary proportions.
Excellent retort dude
I suppose there could be different ideas of what an open mind entails. To me, being open minded has absolutely nothing to do with being confused. To have an open mind doesn't mean to have no clear opinion. Having an open mind means to allow yourself to listen to alternative, even opposing, points of view and then weigh them against your own. It may well be something you haven't heard before, and it may well include evidence that has not been available before. To have an open mind means to be willing and able to take in such new evidence, and if necessary, re-evaluate your opinion based on new facts. This is the way intelligent human beings learn and evolve. It's also very closely related to the way science works, which is probably why good scientists are open-minded by "nature".
Being closed-minded on the other hand means to reject any idea that does not fit into your tightly knit personal world view. Anything in opposition is discarded by default, usually without any consideration, without any intelligent reflection, and often without even hearing it out. Some people see a certain comfort in that. It's easy to do, it doesn't require thinking, and you can live your life self-satisfied, pretending you know everything and are right about everything. These people think that changing their minds would be a sign of weakness. Hence, they wouldn't do it even when they're proven wrong! Little do they know that their real weakness is ignorance.
We all are born ignorant, and require an open mind to learn. The dumbest thing you can do to your mind is to keep it locked up.
-
monster being retired and having nothing else to do but compose long posts... >:(
My claims are probably true. That others don't accept them is not my problem. The more science people know the worse they are at accepting theories. To me those people are poor scientists.
Most of the guys mentioned haven't nailed hypertrophy theory. A couple of those people I haven't read about.
A theory might be true even if no one else accepts or believes it.
The really sad thing is science has completely ignored bodybuilding as a valid study area. In the vacuum arise countless experts who can't produce much at all. I give full credit to anyone who can get results in others. The bottom line is no one seems to be able to succeed with everyone. The unpleasant truth is most guys who train hard aren't growing much if at all. Why is this so? Why, with all that knowledge do so many get so little out of training?
Hedgehog, you really surprise me. I have posted some basic routines. No one here believes what I say is possible. Look at the wannabes here on Getbig. I smile at guys like Goodrum and others who think they know heaps but aren't growing. Just about everyone believes you need drugs to get big. Oh, yeah, you have to have the genetics, whatever that is. This sport is filled to the brim with bullshit and rationalizations. No wonder the truth is still hidden from those clanging away with dumbbells! If all those experts know about growing muscles why do so many have so much trouble? Part of the problem is knowing the truth isn't enough. You have to be able to apply the correct theory via the technology of hypertrophy training. Many cannot put enough mechanical tension on their target muscles. I have seen guys unable to stimulate their arms to grow because their deltoids do most of the work. These guys will be forever searching for the right method but the sad truth is no method can help them.
The bodybuilding magazines have been devoid of much in the way of helpful theories for decades now.
-
Vince, you working on making any new machines at the moment?
-
Let us examine hypertrophy methods. Which method is the best to quickly add muscle on a person who has lifted weights for years and has some results? Well, a philosopher would require a test for the truth of any competing theory. In bodybuilding that test is quite simple. Does the method yield rapid, sustained muscular growth? If you give any method a fair go you should be growing. If you have stopped growing then something must be wrong with what you are doing or your theory is false.
Because most bodybuilders have obtained some results they use this experience to gauge methods, etc., concerning bodybuilding. What confuses so many is that the growth obtained was not rapid and after a while those gains came slowly and often unpredictably. When you cannot measure your growth you become a religious person because you then rely on mysterious forces and faith. You have to believe all that you do is going to result in growth, eventually. Ah, what a joke bodybuilding has become. We have the knowledge, experience and tools to obtain rapid, sustained growth. Most trainees believe that rapid growth occurs only for beginners and those using anabolic drugs. The vast majority of trainees have to blast away and hope for the best. Growth is usually nonexistent or imperceptible. How on earth did things deteriorate in the century? That is not anywhere near good enough.
The test of truth is the results you get from your training. If you stop growing you have to change something. It might be an exercise, volume, resistance or frequency. Heaven help those who try to eat 'healthily' because most of those people do not have enough fuel to grow. That is really sad that so many are so confused about so little.
If someone assumes they have the best and truest method and then proceeds when do they abandon that method? With HIT training any failure can be 'explained' by suggesting the person wasn't training hard enough or perhaps was training too frequently. How would that person know what went wrong? What most bodybuilders do is listen to others. Today that includes reading forums on the internet. The muscle magazines don't seem to have the best minds writing for them. Oh, dear, I will never get another article published by them! Not to worry, there are more important things in life than building muscles.
You don't need an open mind for bodybuilding but you do need a good brain. If you are not intelligent then make sure you follow someone's advice that is. That is why Arthur Jones was effective in getting Sergio Oliva to grow bigger under his supervision. Most people do not have the capacity to do sufficiently progressive workouts that will stimulate additional hypertrophy. In other words, most of us are truly limited well below whatever hypertrophy might be possible in our muscles. If you doubt that then research Larry Scott. That man had very ordinary potential when he arrived in California. He was intelligent and found ways to generate more hypertrophy in his frame and eventually won the Mr Olympia and other top titles. His methods were absolutely brutal yet he became an excellent technologist of exercise performance. It wasn't sufficient to merely train hard; one had to do the right thing as well.
Another person who did his own thing was Bruce Randall. He won the Mr Universe way back in the late fifties. He evolved progressive training accompanied with forced progressive eating. When he shed his extra fat he displayed an amazing physique. He devised a program and then carried it out and was rewarded for that enterprise.
I wonder if any of the current champions have had to labour as hard as those two champions did? I doubt anyone won the Mr Olympia just by going through the motions and taking heaps of drugs.
-
I have a few designs on the drawing board but my members ask for seated leg curl machines and that kind of thing. Then I have to modify some Nautilus machines to make them more effective or easier to maintain. Actually coming up with a new machine is a really expensive thing to do re time and effort. It is much cheaper to buy equipment. My Hack squat machine took me something like 6 months to design and build. Then I spent another 2 or 3 months twice modifying it for various reasons. My biceps-supinator machine was conceived in 1987 then designed in 1991. I finally built the first prototype all by myself in 2001. I modified it several times since. Major surgery causes major adjustments to the way the machine worked. It is probably as good as I can build it.
I have a design for a running machine but so far haven't interested any company so haven't built it. I am sick of other people and companies in Australia copying some of my designs. I build equipment only for my gym where we have several unique machines that are nowhere else in the universe that I am aware of.
-
Vince i'm gonna try and have a workout at your gym soon. I've nearly completed my final year of school, then i'm going to TAFE next year to study personal training. Would be good to have a chat with you about your training ideas and all the stuff you got up to during your bodybuilding days. And of course, try out all those crazy machines.
-
Getbiggers sure know how to knock just about everyone. Whatever satisfaction does that abuser Goatboy get from knocking others here? He does that year after year. The ass could never disclose to his wife who he is. Neither does he dare show up at bodybuilding contests for fear of being assaulted by guys he has bagged. There are others here who do the Goatboy thing and think it is all a big laugh. The only service they do for the community is give the place some objective reality. Bodybuilding isn't important to 99% of the public and that is a shame. I don't think anyone in 1960 would have predicted the demise of this once noble sport. In 1959 Steve Reeves, as Hercules, inspired millions of young men to want to have a good physique. He was a man who lived a healthy life and what a shame he died so young a few years ago.
Goatboy is the mascot of Getbig. Anonymous, offensive and crude. He delights in destroying egos and diminishing the self-esteem of most who post here. His disciples and other misguided flotsam make sure few intelligent people are attracted to this forum. The baptism most receive is appalling and I doubt anything can be done about it. If you don't have a thick skin and a good sense of humour then you won't enjoy this sordid place.
-
Discussion boards are an epic waste of time.
My claims are probably true. That others don't accept them is not my problem. The more science people know the worse they are at accepting theories. To me those people are poor scientists.
Most of the guys mentioned haven't nailed hypertrophy theory. A couple of those people I haven't read about.
A theory might be true even if no one else accepts or believes it.
The really sad thing is science has completely ignored bodybuilding as a valid study area. In the vacuum arise countless experts who can't produce much at all. I give full credit to anyone who can get results in others. The bottom line is no one seems to be able to succeed with everyone. The unpleasant truth is most guys who train hard aren't growing much if at all. Why is this so? Why, with all that knowledge do so many get so little out of training?
Hedgehog, you really surprise me. I have posted some basic routines. No one here believes what I say is possible. Look at the wannabes here on Getbig. I smile at guys like Goodrum and others who think they know heaps but aren't growing. Just about everyone believes you need drugs to get big. Oh, yeah, you have to have the genetics, whatever that is. This sport is filled to the brim with bullshit and rationalizations. No wonder the truth is still hidden from those clanging away with dumbbells! If all those experts know about growing muscles why do so many have so much trouble? Part of the problem is knowing the truth isn't enough. You have to be able to apply the correct theory via the technology of hypertrophy training. Many cannot put enough mechanical tension on their target muscles. I have seen guys unable to stimulate their arms to grow because their deltoids do most of the work. These guys will be forever searching for the right method but the sad truth is no method can help them.
The bodybuilding magazines have been devoid of much in the way of helpful theories for decades now.
Getbiggers sure know how to knock just about everyone. Whatever satisfaction does that abuser Goatboy get from knocking others here? He does that year after year. The ass could never disclose to his wife who he is. Neither does he dare show up at bodybuilding contests for fear of being assaulted by guys he has bagged. There are others here who do the Goatboy thing and think it is all a big laugh. The only service they do for the community is give the place some objective reality. Bodybuilding isn't important to 99% of the public and that is a shame. I don't think anyone in 1960 would have predicted the demise of this once noble sport. In 1959 Steve Reeves, as Hercules, inspired millions of young men to want to have a good physique. He was a man who lived a healthy life and what a shame he died so young a few years ago.
Goatboy is the mascot of Getbig. Anonymous, offensive and crude. He delights in destroying egos and diminishing the self-esteem of most who post here. His disciples and other misguided flotsam make sure few intelligent people are attracted to this forum. The baptism most receive is appalling and I doubt anything can be done about it. If you don't have a thick skin and a good sense of humour then you won't enjoy this sordid place.
Let us examine hypertrophy methods. Which method is the best to quickly add muscle on a person who has lifted weights for years and has some results? Well, a philosopher would require a test for the truth of any competing theory. In bodybuilding that test is quite simple. Does the method yield rapid, sustained muscular growth? If you give any method a fair go you should be growing. If you have stopped growing then something must be wrong with what you are doing or your theory is false.
Because most bodybuilders have obtained some results they use this experience to gauge methods, etc., concerning bodybuilding. What confuses so many is that the growth obtained was not rapid and after a while those gains came slowly and often unpredictably. When you cannot measure your growth you become a religious person because you then rely on mysterious forces and faith. You have to believe all that you do is going to result in growth, eventually. Ah, what a joke bodybuilding has become. We have the knowledge, experience and tools to obtain rapid, sustained growth. Most trainees believe that rapid growth occurs only for beginners and those using anabolic drugs. The vast majority of trainees have to blast away and hope for the best. Growth is usually nonexistent or imperceptible. How on earth did things deteriorate in the century? That is not anywhere near good enough.
The test of truth is the results you get from your training. If you stop growing you have to change something. It might be an exercise, volume, resistance or frequency. Heaven help those who try to eat 'healthily' because most of those people do not have enough fuel to grow. That is really sad that so many are so confused about so little.
If someone assumes they have the best and truest method and then proceeds when do they abandon that method? With HIT training any failure can be 'explained' by suggesting the person wasn't training hard enough or perhaps was training too frequently. How would that person know what went wrong? What most bodybuilders do is listen to others. Today that includes reading forums on the internet. The muscle magazines don't seem to have the best minds writing for them. Oh, dear, I will never get another article published by them! Not to worry, there are more important things in life than building muscles.
You don't need an open mind for bodybuilding but you do need a good brain. If you are not intelligent then make sure you follow someone's advice that is. That is why Arthur Jones was effective in getting Sergio Oliva to grow bigger under his supervision. Most people do not have the capacity to do sufficiently progressive workouts that will stimulate additional hypertrophy. In other words, most of us are truly limited well below whatever hypertrophy might be possible in our muscles. If you doubt that then research Larry Scott. That man had very ordinary potential when he arrived in California. He was intelligent and found ways to generate more hypertrophy in his frame and eventually won the Mr Olympia and other top titles. His methods were absolutely brutal yet he became an excellent technologist of exercise performance. It wasn't sufficient to merely train hard; one had to do the right thing as well.
Another person who did his own thing was Bruce Randall. He won the Mr Universe way back in the late fifties. He evolved progressive training accompanied with forced progressive eating. When he shed his extra fat he displayed an amazing physique. He devised a program and then carried it out and was rewarded for that enterprise.
I wonder if any of the current champions have had to labour as hard as those two champions did? I doubt anyone won the Mr Olympia just by going through the motions and taking heaps of drugs.
Discussion boards are an epic waste of time.
A little help here?
-
Monster arm hair!
-
Vince..
What are your thoughts on the ROM (4 min workout)
Not sure if you ever saw one.
-
Why should I, as a gym owner, give practical advice away for free? A bit like asking a doctor for free consultations. That is what we get for being bodybuilders. I have given advice about training, even at depth on this forum. Do a search and see. Or go to HST forum and search there. If you are intelligent you should be able to apply that information. If you need to be spoon fed then no one can help you. I don't charge my members for information but few bodybuilders listen to what I say. Nothing has changed in this regard and just about everyone thinks he knows all about training. I should have been a university professor and enjoyed that profession instead of opening a gym.
I got the T-shirt at Venice Beach in 2004. I got several tiger ones as a gift from a girlfriend.
I have seen the discussions on other boards. No one has become any wiser because of them... no one understands what you are talking about. People a lot smarter than me. What kind of IQ do you require to understand your theories? 200+?
If you consider yourself an expert why not leave something behind... do you want to take the "secrets" to your grave? What is the purpose of your "research"?
Do you know of anyone who understands your theories?
-
I couldn't win a novice show with that physique today.
TRUE :)
-
See if you can comprehend this analogy. Imagine the set of all winning chess games. If you reverse engineer each of those games then you must win each of them. Likewise, imagine the set of all programs in bodybuilding that led to maximum possible hypertrophy from each workout. If you reverse engineered each method you would be able to grow at the maximum amount possible from each workout. It would be a simple thing to know what to do each time you trained.
I start with the premise that it is possible to grow maximally each time you train. Exactly what has to be done may or may not be known before you start. The gift from nature is there are feedback mechanisms that alert the brain that the muscles are growing rapidly. If you train and the next day there is no feedback that you are growing then that workout was insufficient to trigger further hypertrophy. You then have to retrain those target muscles and do something different. Doing the same unproductive thing is not intelligent or sane.
What confuses just about everyone who trains is that most do not perceive any growth from day to day. In the absence of any indicators of growth how on earth would you know if your workouts are productive? You have no idea and that explains why so many are oblivious about stimulating regular hypertrophy.
At all costs you must avoid the repeated bout effect. Science has shown that if you let the body adapt then the same stimulus used to trigger that adaptation will not be sufficient to trigger additional adaptation. Timing is everything. If you know what is happening in the muscles you will know when to train again. Some believe the muscles must be stimulated every 48 hours. Others insist that is too frequent. The ideal is to do the minimum amount of training for the maximum muscle growth. This includes training frequency. There is no point training daily if training every 3rd or 4th day results in the same amount of growth.
At all times one is guided by what works. If you are not growing after every single workout you are not training optimally. The one requirement that is controversial at the moment is volume. If you do not do sufficient volume then you cannot grow optimally. The amount of volume needed might vary with the size, experience and particular quality of each person's muscles. You don't do just anything but you have to start using methods that have worked for others who have succeeded in building huge physiques. The problem here is most of the huge guys today used drugs. We are talking only about natural bodybuilding. However, there is enough overlap regarding training that most guys who get big do similar kinds of training.
It may well be possible that several different methods might lead to maximum hypertrophy. The goal is to use the most effective but the method must be safe. If you get injured then your career will be over. For that reason alone I don't recommend HIT methods because they are too dangerous. Arthur Jones was right in that you train for size and don't demonstrate strength. There is no place in maximum hypertrophy for doing anything less than 5 reps. Even that number might be too low. It is better to do 10 to 15 reps as a target. After several maximum sets your rep number will decrease unless you lengthen the rest between sets.
Whatever the maximum rate of growth is the ideal might be somewhat less because methods have to be practical and sustainable. If it turns out that the maximum rate requires 8 hours training per day then only a lunatic could achieve that result. It would still be interesting if that were possible. I doubt training any less than a couple of hours a day will lead to much growth at all. I am talking about sustained hypertrophy here. It is my conjecture that hypertrophy is required for muscular endurance above a threshold strength level. It would be a simple matter to find out how long is ideal and how long is maximal.
There have been two opposing strategies in bodybuilding over the last 50 years. One method advocates training exceptionally hard but briefly. That is what Arthur Jones deduced from his experience with training himself and others in the Nautilus experiments. What a pity Arthur wasn't right about all of this. He revolutionized the way we think about training and the ideal is to train the minimum for the maximum results. Opposed to that ideal are the volume guys. These bodybuilders are from the make sure school of thinking. If you need protein to grow muscles then take more than you need to be sure you get enough. In the gym keep doing sets to make sure you have triggered hypertrophy. Some guys have done 50 or more sets per muscle group on training days. Who is right and how do we determine that?
Arthur Jones wrote about high intensity brief training over 30 years ago. If what he said were true then why isn't everyone training like he recommended? That is a problem that won't go away. I guess Arthur and others would have concluded that bodybuilders are just plain stupid. They are too thick to know a better method even when shoved down their throats. The one example that supports that way of training is Sergio Oliva. Sergio was a volume trainer from way back. He would do sets then come back and do some more. Lots of sets with heavy weights seems to be what is common to almost every program that guys with big muscles use. How, then, did Arthur train Sergio using briefer workouts that led to even more growth on this huge bodybuilder? Well, those workouts were hardly pure HIT. Those leg workouts resembled what Milos does but using way more resistance. The ideal was to finish with a set of squats using 400 pounds for something like 15 reps. Before doing squats you exhausted those leg muscles using heavy leg presses for something like 20 to 30 reps then following that with leg extension for another 20 reps. Sergio would be pushed on each phase and rushed to the next exercise. If one used two cycles of this routine then it is clear it is a super intense volume method. The time factor generates more intensity. Would the same result be achieved spreading the workout over a longer period?
I haven't known of any professional bodybuilder who has obtained his size using brief workouts. That should tell us that HIT is a pipedream. You absolutely have to do only workouts that lead to rapid, sustained growth. There is no evidence that HIT will achieve this goal. It is not sustainable. Therefore, the true method has to be one with much more volume.
How much volume is required to sustain growth? This is much easier to estimate. We conjecture it is something between 5 and 10 maximum sets of 10 to 15 reps. It may be possible to grow even more using more sets but this is unknown until some stalwart volunteers experiment with more volume. If it were possible to put 2 inches on your arms in one month would the amount of training time matter? My estimate is you should be able to grow a tenth of an inch per arm workout. If you train every 3rd day that will mean you will put an inch on your arms in a month. It is not known if this rate can be sustained but I think that is a conservative estimate.
The one absolutely necessary requirement is one must eat enough food and drink to put bodyweight on. I can't tell you how many guys miss this essential ingredient. Most modern bodybuilders try to eat properly and forget to eat sufficiently. The goal is to be slightly heavier each and every training day. All you need is a very accurate scale to guide you. If you are lighter you must eat something before training. Whether you will benefit from pre, during and post workout intakes of nutrients has not been established. If it works then you should be doing that. The trick is to keep factors separate and test them to determine what is necessary and what is sufficient. Doing anything less is chaos. You always proceed in a scientific fashion where you try to know what is working and what is not. If you are not growing from each workout you are doing something wrong. Your next workout has to be different.
Well, this in enough for a birthday thread. If people cannot comprehend theories and distill useful information then that is too bad. I have no intention of prescribing protocols for knuckleheads. Do your own damn thinking and experimenting.
-
Good post Vince
-
Who would have thought anyone would end up writing serious articles for the Getbig Gossip forum instead of the muscle magazines? Those mags don't pay enough and they don't recognize good information when they see it. Plus, all the current writers and editors don't want smart asses on their staffs because that is a threat to their jobs.
-
Basile, Basile, Basile...
You still just talk a bunch of shit about how everything's possible, and what we know, and what may be possible.
How about this answer this simple question: How often do you think one should train?
-
I have answered that question. Your post sounds more like crap than mine do! Shame on you if you are a moderator.
The theory can't be chopped into sets and reps you know. Sure we eventually have to mention those things but the main thing is to get the theory right. At least this forum reveals what others understand and don't get from what we post. Sort of a negative, but important just the same to anyone thinking about writing a book.
From training for my pinch grip world record of 92.5 kg or 203 pounds with one hand I concluded that the best frequency for strength is every 4th day. If I trained earlier or later I didn't get stronger. It remains to be seen if 4 days is optimal for hypertrophy. Part of the problem is keeping the muscles in a growing state. If you train too infrequently like HIT recommends you come up against the RBE and you can't easily grow. If you think about rolling a big truck tyre down the road you know it is easier to keep it rolling instead of stopping and trying to get it rolling again. That is what you have to do with the muscles. With that in mind you use the body's feedback mechanism to tell you when to retrain the muscle.
What we don't know is if it is possible to approach the hypertrophy gained by fowl in various experiments done where a weight is attached to one wing. Antonio was able to get some fowl to increase hypertrophy in the anterior latissimus dorsi muscle by 300% in one month. That is amazing. Imagine if we could grow even 50% in one month? That is why I keep an open mind about what is possible. The guru approach using drugs is a shortcut that is downright insane. If what GH15 says is true then every pro today should have his head read by psychiatrists for that is patent lunacy without any doubt.
HST people try to use research to form their method. Haycock believes you need to stimulate muscles as soon as they stop synthesizing protein. For practical purposes he recommends training every 48 hours but perhaps every 36 hours is ideal. I am not convinced he is right but this will be settled by research and results and not by arguments. It may be possible to train for long periods daily and grow incredibly fast. No one has tried this as far as I know. Would be an interesting experiment. I caution anyone thinking about frequent training to consider the connective tissue. They may or may not adapt to keep up with the hypertrophy. It would seem bizarre if the connective tissue didn't support whatever hypertrophy is needed. We do know that connective tissue injuries take longer to heal than muscle injuries. Whether growth states and injuries are similar is something I do not know.
To be conservative I think the sort of training I recommend requires some rest. You can retrain a sore muscle and that might even be necessary to keep the muscle growing. I can tell you that even sore muscles soon adapt to frequent training after a substantial warm up of many lighter sets. There is a method behind what I say. It is not just theory. What I conclude is what I have found for myself through years and years of training and searching.
In 1969 Doug Hepburn trained me for a couple of weeks on arms. We used his personal home apparatus that had only concentric resistance. His protocol? Warm up and then do supersets for 20 sets of 5 reps for biceps and triceps. East set to be the limit of what you can do for those reps. I can tell you that wasn't a method I approved of. I did put on 1/2 inch in those two weeks having 4 workouts. So that is about the same growth that I experienced myself using a different program in 1998. Twice a week splits the difference between 3 and 4 days. With gyms open 7 days a week you can train whenever you like. I doubt the muscles know anything about weeks having seven days.
-
...or calf raises, or deadlifts, and so on...
hey asshole, that one even made me laugh ;D
-
No offense but I've seen recent pics of you and you are the LAST person who should be calling himself a "bodybuilder", much less giving out bodybuilding advice.
Shit man even this posts makes me all wiggly inside. I take this as a backhanded compliment
-
.
-
Hey, Goatboy, I know you really, really, really want to make a man of yourself. You gave up trying years ago and still weigh under 160 pounds. No matter, salvation is at hand. It is also free of charge. All you have to do is post a before photo of your very ordinary swimmer's physique and I will help you transcend that puny existence and become a he-man. You will finally be able to look at yourself in the mirror without self-owning yourself to epic extremes. At the beach you will get the admiration of both women and men alike, much to your wife's dismay. Your destiny is not with the likes of Goodrum and other flotsam and wannabes. You can make a difference in yourself and then you can rejoin this community as yourself instead of hiding in the closet of hope year after sordid year. What kind of existence is that?!
-
Great 60's pics Vince, keep 'em coming. 8)
-
is that goatboys hand? looks like it belongs on a fat bastard
-
im currently at the gym 7 days a week, twice a day. im pretty sure this is the road to hypertrophy success!
-
I have answered that question. Your post sounds more like crap than mine do! Shame on you if you are a moderator.
The theory can't be chopped into sets and reps you know. Sure we eventually have to mention those things but the main thing is to get the theory right. At least this forum reveals what others understand and don't get from what we post. Sort of a negative, but important just the same to anyone thinking about writing a book.
From training for my pinch grip world record of 92.5 kg or 203 pounds with one hand I concluded that the best frequency for strength is every 4th day. If I trained earlier or later I didn't get stronger. It remains to be seen if 4 days is optimal for hypertrophy. Part of the problem is keeping the muscles in a growing state. If you train too infrequently like HIT recommends you come up against the RBE and you can't easily grow. If you think about rolling a big truck tyre down the road you know it is easier to keep it rolling instead of stopping and trying to get it rolling again. That is what you have to do with the muscles. With that in mind you use the body's feedback mechanism to tell you when to retrain the muscle.
Ok. So you believe that training every 4th day is optimal.
Why then did Saltin et al found evidence that training twice every other day could be optimal?
-
im currently at the gym 7 days a week, twice a day. im pretty sure this is the road to hypertrophy success!
How much weight have you been able to gain the last year?
-
How much weight have you been able to gain the last year?
i've put on some good weight, but thats merely because im into hypertrophy now, and not functional strength that i was before.
ill give my current routine a couple of months and we should see
-
Short version of Vince's Theory:
Train every 4th day
5 - 10 max sets per bodypart
10 - 15 reps
Eat enough to grow
If not growing, change something
-
genius. pure genius!
-
Short version of Vince's Theory:
Train every 4th day
5 - 10 max sets per bodypart
10 - 15 reps
Eat enough to grow
If not growing, change something
Nice.
And that "theory" isn't exactly something new under the sun.
That's why the old gimp is so reluctant to spell out his routines:
He ain't got no magic pill. He just like to come across like he does.
-
BTW, I remember when Basile was on Thibaudeau's nutsacks when Thib made one or two posts here.
Claimed that Thib "was a student of hypertrophy", or some ridiculous bullshit like that.
Basile's reason for sucking the cock of Thib, was that Thib was getting published.
Very logical. ::)
No offence to Thib, who writes lots of good articles, but Basile is nothing but a con artist, right up there with Snake Oil Unlimited.
-
BTW, I remember when Basile was on Thibaudeau's nutsacks when Thib made one or two posts here.
Claimed that Thib "was a student of hypertrophy", or some ridiculous bullshit like that.
Basile's reason for sucking the cock of Thib, was that Thib was getting published.
Very logical. ::)
No offence to Thib, who writes lots of good articles, but Basile is nothing but a con artist, right up there with Snake Oil Unlimited.
too bad thib doesnt post here more, could've been interesting
-
I respect Milos and if he can make money from this business then I take my hat off to him. Not many guys have integrity nowadays.
To reply to the Hedginghog. I didn't say training every 4th day was optimal for hypertrophy but it might be for strength. Twice a week might be the practical frequency. It is unknown if daily training or every other day will result in more growth. Why that is still unknown is really a mystery. What the heck are those exercise scientists doing in those labs?
It is one thing to grow maximally and who knows the exact prescriptions for that enterprise? If we forget about that but try to sustain growth then we can find something that is doable. This is where perhaps 1 to 2 hours per bodypart twice a week might be sufficient to keep an already hypertrophied muscle growing. If you can't measure the growth you have to try something else. If you don't have a good brain maybe you should play computer games or something like that.
-
No offense but I've seen recent pics of you and you are the LAST person who should be calling himself a "bodybuilder", much less giving out bodybuilding advice.
Are you saying Vince could give Christian Bale a run for the muscularity award, but only if you are talking about his shape in the movie 'The Machinist', Pandaemonium?
-
You know, when I read the insults Hedgehog posts it makes me wonder if moderators are chosen for the same reasons as IFBB judges are. I am going to have to write for the standard deviation below the mean to reach some of these lads.
-
vince, i must ask...with all of your out of this world training methods and your anus invading bicep supinating reverse curl machines.....
you never grew past a 5'9" 155 lb dweeb?
-
You know, when I read the insults Hedgehog posts it makes me wonder if moderators are chosen for the same reasons as IFBB judges are. I am going to have to write for the standard deviation below the mean to reach some of these lads.
Ever thought about writing a book, Vince? You have much to say.
Start today, drop in once a year to keep us updated.
Good luck.
-
You know, when I read the insults Hedgehog posts it makes me wonder if moderators are chosen for the same reasons as IFBB judges are. I am going to have to write for the standard deviation below the mean to reach some of these lads.
I've been trying to get anything structured from you for close to 4 years now.
It ain't happening. Over the years I've seen you constantly deflect every attempt from serious trainers to get at the holy grail you promises them.
Frankly, I think you're dishonest.
If you wouldn't pretend like you had some answer to how hypertrophy could be achieved most efficiently, I would not bother.
But you keep on bullshitting. And when people come on Getbig and tries to bullshit, they usually get called on it. That's one of the Getbig trademarks IMO.
Eg, you still have some people on this board, who's lining up to come and train under you in your gym, only because of the fairy tales you've been telling about how hypertrophy "may be possible".
It is unknown if daily training or every other day will result in more growth. Why that is still unknown is really a mystery. What the heck are those exercise scientists doing in those labs?
You're wrong, as usual.
Stop your bullshit already.
There have been a study done. Didn't I just write that?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=15361516&ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
-
That study is totally irrelevant to bodybuilding. If you are going to refute me you will have to do infinitely better than that. Why quote a study using untrained subjects? We need to know how to get intermediate and advanced bodybuilders bigger. That is where you need the right theory. Fooling around with untrained subjects for a short period of time is a waste of everyone's time.
When a moderator asks people to contribute and then personally attacks them by calling them dishonest is it any wonder this place sucks? You have no credibility or standing as a moderator, in my opinion. I find your attitude intellectually offensive.
-
That study is totally irrelevant to bodybuilding. If you are going to refute me you will have to do infinitely better than that. Why quote a study using untrained subjects? We need to know how to get intermediate and advanced bodybuilders bigger. That is where you need the right theory. Fooling around with untrained subjects for a short period of time is a waste of everyone's time.
When a moderator asks people to contribute and then personally attacks them by calling them dishonest is it any wonder this place sucks? You have no credibility or standing as a moderator, in my opinion. I find your attitude intellectually offensive.
Guess what?
I find your attitude somewhat anti-intellectual in general Basile.
I ask you to back your shit up, and have for a long time. Your replies are usually along the lines of "I don't have to/I have no obligation to".
You think this place sucks? Ok.
Then we are of two completely different opinions.
Yet again you try to blame the messenger, instead of addressing the critisism: That you're not backing up your shit.
You're not giving any concrete.
You're just doing the usual "Basile Routine", ie write a 5 paragraphs about nothing, and suggest how maybe perhaps something is possible if training is done in a certain fashion. And that we know things, and that we don't know other things.
It's absolutely priceless when I present a study conducted by one of the most respected sports scientists in the world, Saltin, and you dismiss it right off the bat.
You either must know some goddamn secret that everyone else is unaware of, or you're full of shit, someone who don't know jack shit about scientific research or the whereabouts of it.
What option do you think it is Vince?
-
Are you saying Vince could give Christian Bale a run for the muscularity award, but only if you are talking about his shape in the movie 'The Machinist', Pandaemonium?
lol, what I am saying is that Vince's rectum has been "invaded" more times than Iraq ;D
-
Great physique Vince!
Happy 65 years!
-
is that goatboys hand? looks like it belongs on a fat bastard
yup
it sure is
-
Hedgehog has some noble mission to keep the bastards honest. He also is an altruist because he endeavours to get experienced people to disclose their training secrets for the members here. The first mission is fine. The second is wishful thinking.
This board is a gossip and opinion board. It is not the training board and no one should be under any obligation to present theories and methods in a rigorous fashion here. I prefer to discuss theories whereas others are frustrated at talking and want definite prescriptions. Yes, as a gym owner for decades I understand what bodybuilders want. I have declined the invitation to discuss training on the specific board because I find it totally not worth the effort. Let the experts have that place so they can knock heads with beginners.
If someone presents a study to support his case and someone else doesn't see how that study supports anything why is that not okay? What is the test of truth of bodybuilding knowledge? Ah, here we come closer to the issue at hand. Hedgehog, like just about everyone else in this field, has experience, notions and beliefs and if someone doesn't concur with him then that person is wrong. The test of a true hypertrophy method is does it work for everyone. It matters little if some don't believe it is true. Try methods and see if they work. If they don't, and you are doing it right, then throw it on the rubbish heap of false theories.
As soon as someone tries to get me to nail down frequency or sets and reps he has missed what I have been talking about. You can never do that in my method because the key point is you change things if certain feedback doesn't occur. You are always training for a certain result. Muscular growth that you can measure. The side effects of rapid growth are always present so you know when you have achieved that goal. For arms and calves they should be bigger the next day and you should be able to measure an increase. If they are not bigger then something was insufficient in the workout.
I hope this helps.