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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Milos_Sarcev on October 03, 2007, 09:59:06 AM
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Hi Bob,
Here we are again...
As you announced back in 2006 - you have received conformation from Mr. Jim Manion that starting with IRONMAN 2007 we will have MORE COMPARISONS and if I remember correctly you even used a term: top ten will all be crisscrossed and compared...
At the IRONMAN we had situation where hardly any comparisons took place and as you know - after the prejudging we had somewhat uncomfortable discussion with the judges...
That day Mr. Manion called me and when I asked him WHAT HAPPENED - he suggested that possibly some of the judges were NOT informed about this NEW POLICY (so much for putting things in writing - I guess?)
Well, after I must say pretty good year of NUMEROUS COMPARISONS in many shows (still not as many as expected - but definitely MORE THAN EVER) I was looking foreword to Mr. Olympia - FINAL CONTEST OF THE YEAR...SUPERBOWL OF BODYBUILDING...and being that prejudging is separated from the finals (on Friday night) - it was safe to assume that WE WILL HAVE ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD TO COMPARE each and every athlete even with their own shadows...if we had to...
How and why we didn't have MORE COMPARISONS and how and why some athletes were denied a chance to compete - it is a question I have to ask...
And while some people will suggest that I am talking about "my athletes" - I would like to say - all the athletes are "my athletes" (as just like you Bob - I do care for all the IFBB pros...so fact that I am maybe helping some in preparation doesn't mean I am now against any other...I only like to bring the best out of each and every guy and help them reach their full potential).
So, HOW (!?) for the love of God could IFBB judging panel NOT want to see Dennis Wolf standing right next to (rather: in between) Jay and Victor?
And how for example AC champion Johnnie Jackson was never compared with Melvin Anthony (as Melvin "predicted" at the press conference)...or Ronnie, Dexter, Jay...and how about my dear friend - Hidetada Yamagishi (who's sponsor organized large group of Japanese fans to come to Vegas and witness the history -as Hide is the very first Japanese bodybuilder to ever step on Mr. Olympia stage...just to realize - head judge didn't even know how to pronounce Hidetada's name, making fun of his mistakes...as he thought he is being funny mispronouncing Hidetada's name 5-6 times...).
Guests form Japan were deeply disturbed with that and I must say: rightfully so...
Could it be that after failing to remember his name judge decided NOT to call Hide for additional comparisons (I saw Hide worthy of being compared to his ex training partner Silvio, Gustavo, David H....etc)
When we are talking about THE OLYMPIA...Joe Weider's Mr. Olympia - as ULTIMATE CONTEST at the end of EVERY YEAR - which determines exactly WHO IS THE BEST BODYBUILDER IN THE WORLD...we should have MORE comparisons than normally and certainly not less.
While there are many bellow average IFBB pros at some IFBB professional events - certain comparisons among the athletes are possibly NOT necessary (due to obvious difference in quality)...but Olympians are "special breed" and they are not there by accident...they earned their right to step on that stage through qualification process - as they had to prove themselves - competing and placing in the top 3 in some of the shows prior to Mr. O.
And if judges somehow overlook somebody on Friday...they could see some photos on the Internet (like the "instant replay")....review it... and maybe realize that some competitors DESERVE to be compared to otherwise "protected" champions...
Fans deserve to see it...the whole world does...but we are still not doing it?!?
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Nice one Milos - I hope you get an answer, although I suspect it will be on the phone!!!
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Well said Milos. I was extremely dissapointed not to see Dennis put next to victor and Jay. Maybe the IFBB didn't want to make it TOO obvious how fucked up the placings were.
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Milos. Correction it is NOT called Joe Weiders Olympia. It is now called the MUSCLETECH OLYMPIA FOR COMPETITORS THAT LOOK LIKE SHIT BUT WE'LL STILL AWARD THEM THE TITLE SINCE WE ARE PAYING FOR THIS SHIT
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Milos-
I agree 100% with everything you just said....
I too, would like to know why there werent sufficient/ adaquate comparisons...ANYONE in the top 5 should be compared, and especially where there are cross-over comparisons Ex: ( top 5 are called, next 5 are called...I want to see 4,5,6,7 called next...)
I would also like to see what I call "fan friendly" callouts when they are within reason....Johnnie Jackson and Melvin...Darrem and JOJ, and Melvin, etc....all lend to more exciting show.
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Milos - Try someone who can do something about this. Thats obviously not Bob.
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Milos-
I agree 100% with everything you just said....
I too, would like to know why there werent sufficient/ adaquate comparisons...ANYONE in the top 5 should be compared, and especially where there are cross-over comparisons Ex: ( top 5 are called, next 5 are called...I want to see 4,5,6,7 called next...)
I would also like to see what I call "fan friendly" callouts when they are within reason....Johnnie Jackson and Melvin...Darrem and JOJ, and Melvin, etc....all lend to more exciting show.
Hopefully some kind of OFFICIAL rule can be instated to address this issue. I hate to sound like a broken record but I just can't understand how the judges can justify not placing a top 5 guy next to first and second place. Bob, I agree with you and I think the "Within reason" fan friendly callouts is a great way to the the crowd going and hype up the show as well.
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This thread will go either one of these 2 ways:
15+ pages
Ron will delete it in 5 minutes...... ::)
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Milos, you should know the answer about why more comparisons were not done. The IFBB does whatever it wants regardless of whether it creates an air of impropriety in the "judging" as long as the major sponsors are satisfied with the placings. It's as simple as that. More comparisons would have been done if it really were a "contest." But you know that it wasn't. The result, right or wrong, was predetermined.
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Milos-
I agree 100% with everything you just said....
I too, would like to know why there werent sufficient/ adaquate comparisons...ANYONE in the top 5 should be compared, and especially where there are cross-over comparisons Ex: ( top 5 are called, next 5 are called...I want to see 4,5,6,7 called next...)
I would also like to see what I call "fan friendly" callouts when they are within reason....Johnnie Jackson and Melvin...Darrem and JOJ, and Melvin, etc....all lend to more exciting show.
Excellent post!
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Excellent post!
Yeh, but All Talk, NO Walk ...
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This thread will go either one of these 2 ways:
15+ pages
Ron will delete it in 5 minutes...... ::)
15+pages
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Ron will delete it in 5 minutes...... ::)
Why would Ron delete it?
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15+pages
Ron rarly deletes any threads...
(http://www.goddudes.com/1.gif)
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The only excuse that makes any sense for not comparing Dennis to Jay and Vic is that the judges knew that was a bad comparison for their bought champion.
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Thanks for sticking up for Hide Milos.
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The only excuse that makes any sense for not comparing Dennis to Jay and Vic is that the judges knew that was a bad comparison for their bought champion.
POST OF THE YEAR AWARD!
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Hi Bob,
Here we are again...
As you announced back in 2006 - you have received conformation from Mr. Jim Manion that starting with IRONMAN 2007 we will have MORE COMPARISONS and if I remember correctly you even used a term: top ten will all be crisscrossed and compared...
At the IRONMAN we had situation where hardly any comparisons took place and as you know - after the prejudging we had somewhat uncomfortable discussion with the judges...
That day Mr. Manion called me and when I asked him WHAT HAPPENED - he suggested that possibly some of the judges were NOT informed about this NEW POLICY (so much for putting things in writing - I guess?)
Well, after I must say pretty good year of NUMEROUS COMPARISONS in many shows (still not as many as expected - but definitely MORE THAN EVER) I was looking foreword to Mr. Olympia - FINAL CONTEST OF THE YEAR...SUPERBOWL OF BODYBUILDING...and being that prejudging is separated from the finals (on Friday night) - it was safe to assume that WE WILL HAVE ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD TO COMPARE each and every athlete even with their own shadows...if we had to...
How and why we didn't have MORE COMPARISONS and how and why some athletes were denied a chance to compete - it is a question I have to ask...
And while some people will suggest that I am talking about "my athletes" - I would like to say - all the athletes are "my athletes" (as just like you Bob - I do care for all the IFBB pros...so fact that I am maybe helping some in preparation doesn't mean I am now against any other...I only like to bring the best out of each and every guy and help them reach their full potential).
So, HOW (!?) for the love of God could IFBB judging panel NOT want to see Dennis Wolf standing right next to (rather: in between) Jay and Victor?
And how for example AC champion Johnnie Jackson was never compared with Melvin Anthony (as Melvin "predicted" at the press conference)...or Ronnie, Dexter, Jay...and how about my dear friend - Hidetada Yamagishi (who's sponsor organized large group of Japanese fans to come to Vegas and witness the history -as Hide is the very first Japanese bodybuilder to ever step on Mr. Olympia stage...just to realize - head judge didn't even know how to pronounce Hidetada's name, making fun of his mistakes...as he thought he is being funny mispronouncing Hidetada's name 5-6 times...).
Guests form Japan were deeply disturbed with that and I must say: rightfully so...
Could it be that after failing to remember his name judge decided NOT to call Hide for additional comparisons (I saw Hide worthy of being compared to his ex training partner Silvio, Gustavo, David H....etc)
When we are talking about THE OLYMPIA...Joe Weider's Mr. Olympia - as ULTIMATE CONTEST at the end of EVERY YEAR - which determines exactly WHO IS THE BEST BODYBUILDER IN THE WORLD...we should have MORE comparisons than normally and certainly not less.
While there are many bellow average IFBB pros at some IFBB professional events - certain comparisons among the athletes are possibly NOT necessary (due to obvious difference in quality)...but Olympians are "special breed" and they are not there by accident...they earned their right to step on that stage through qualification process - as they had to prove themselves - competing and placing in the top 3 in some of the shows prior to Mr. O.
And if judges somehow overlook somebody on Friday...they could see some photos on the Internet (like the "instant replay")....review it... and maybe realize that some competitors DESERVE to be compared to otherwise "protected" champions...
Fans deserve to see it...the whole world does...but we are still not doing it?!?
I don't know why, but this part of the story enrages me the most. Next year get someone more professional.
Overall, from the awesome production work done by Hellen Keller, INC to the bullshit that Milos is talking about the Olympia was laughable. Alienating the hardcore fans (which are the only ones that care enough to pay and put their ass in a seat) is putting BB into a fucking landslide.
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The only excuse that makes any sense for not comparing Dennis to Jay and Vic is that the judges knew that was a bad comparison for their bought champion.
oh My lord saviour, Jay is completely Owned here
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Yeh, but All Talk, NO Walk ...
Regardless about what some of you guys think about Bob being a "companyman" I know that there a many things that he doesn't like that he would like to see changed for the benefit of the pros, but he can only do so much.
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Everything Milos says makes sense and should be implemented. Unfortunately bodybuilding contests are fixed and criss crossing all athletes when it comes to pre-judging comparisons doesn't fit the agenda of the IFBB corruption machinery. This years Mr. Olympia is the perfect example: Letting a subpar looking Cutler reign supreme and sparing him the humiliation of getting destroyed in a comparison with a better athlete like Dennis Wolf. Clearly Jay's sponsor won him the title.
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Having the pre-judging on Friday night is also a problem. The judges are going to make minimal callouts when they know that there's still women's bodybuilding & fitness to follow. Move it back to Saturday and take as long as necessary to give everyone a good look. Bob, is there any talk of this?
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Milos-
I agree 100% with everything you just said....
I too, would like to know why there werent sufficient/ adaquate comparisons...ANYONE in the top 5 should be compared, and especially where there are cross-over comparisons Ex: ( top 5 are called, next 5 are called...I want to see 4,5,6,7 called next...)
I would also like to see what I call "fan friendly" callouts when they are within reason....Johnnie Jackson and Melvin...Darrem and JOJ, and Melvin, etc....all lend to more exciting show.
Perhaps as Athlete's Rep you could address this issue with Jim and find out what happened? The 5th-place guy (really 4th since Ronnie got a retirement gift) not being compared to 1-3? What's up with that?
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Touche' Milos...
It's a sad day when the current Mr Olympia's waist is probably 42 inches
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We'll call this the "Let's put Wolf and Jay on opposite sides of the stage" rule
;)
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Milos-
I agree 100% with everything you just said....
I too, would like to know why there werent sufficient/ adaquate comparisons...ANYONE in the top 5 should be compared, and especially where there are cross-over comparisons Ex: ( top 5 are called, next 5 are called...I want to see 4,5,6,7 called next...)
I would also like to see what I call "fan friendly" callouts when they are within reason....Johnnie Jackson and Melvin...Darrem and JOJ, and Melvin, etc....all lend to more exciting show.
Solid post, I think everyone would like to see that done.
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Milos-
I agree 100% with everything you just said....
I too, would like to know why there werent sufficient/ adaquate comparisons...ANYONE in the top 5 should be compared, and especially where there are cross-over comparisons Ex: ( top 5 are called, next 5 are called...I want to see 4,5,6,7 called next...)
I would also like to see what I call "fan friendly" callouts when they are within reason....Johnnie Jackson and Melvin...Darrem and JOJ, and Melvin, etc....all lend to more exciting show.
Can you tell us exactly why Wolf and Cutler weren't directly compared and why did Culter run whenever Wolf came near him?
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only thing jay has on wolf is calves, and maybe upper back.
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Can you tell us exactly why Wolf and Cutler weren't directly compared and why did Culter run whenever Wolf came near him?
Because he's "Runaway Jay"!
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This is about as close as Cutler and Wolfe got.. :'(
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Regardless about what some of you guys think about Bob being a "companyman" I know that there a many things that he doesn't like that he would like to see changed for the benefit of the pros, but he can only do so much.
In exchange for publicly defending the IFBB's indefensible actions, Bob gets to sit at the table with the powers-that-be. They make all the decisions, and if Bob says something they pretend to listen, pat him on the head, and then promptly ignore him and do what they want anyway.
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clearly... the only "two" things Cutler got over Wolf are his bigger gut and calves.
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clearly... the only "two" things Cutler got over Wolf are his bigger gut and calves.
Cutler was smoother than Wolf as well. Jay should get bonus points for his "awesome" smoothness, right? ;D
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The only excuse that makes any sense for not comparing Dennis to Jay and Vic is that the judges knew that was a bad comparison for their bought champion.
100% True. That picture is just missing one word:
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This is about as close as Cutler and Wolfe got.. :'(
Look at how thick Cutler's waist is in that shot compared to Wolf.
Those two aren't even close, Wolf clearly. It's really not even close.
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Awesome Post Milos and Chick.... This was the OLYMPIA!!!!!! the best of the best!!! all ahould have been done to insure the fairest best show possible, not have the biggest fourm on the www asking WTF is up?
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Regardless about what some of you guys think about Bob being a "companyman" I know that there a many things that he doesn't like that he would like to see changed for the benefit of the pros, but he can only do so much.
Thanks Jimmy...
The callouts (except for the IM) in '07 have been great....and I believe the judges have done a very good job this year in making sure enough comparisons have been made.....HOWEVER...There is no excuse for not having every one projected to be in the top 5 compared...
There is only so much I can do...I asked for more comparisons...that's what I was assured would happen. The IM came and there was a miscommunication with the head judge who never received the new standards we had agreed upon...fine.....it was fixed and every show since then has been called the way it should have, and probably MORE comparisons than was necessary.
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Having the pre-judging on Friday night is also a problem. The judges are going to make minimal callouts when they know that there's still women's bodybuilding & fitness to follow. Move it back to Saturday and take as long as necessary to give everyone a good look. Bob, is there any talk of this?
That was of no consideration...the prejudging was over 2 hours long....and many comparisons were made...I just think some key comparisonss were not.
No...there are other considerations to moving the prejudging to Friday night...
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http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2007olympia_vids.htm
I could hardly talk...but I think I said what I had to...
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Thanks Jimmy...
The callouts (except for the IM) in '07 have been great....and I believe the judges have done a very good job this year in making sure enough comparisons have been made.....HOWEVER...There is no excuse for not having every one projected to be in the top 5 compared...
There is only so much I can do...I asked for more comparisons...that's what I was assured would happen. The IM came and there was a miscommunication with the head judge who never received the new standards we had agreed upon...fine.....it was fixed and every show since then has been called the way it should have, and probably MORE comparisons than was necessary.
You're welcome. :) I would like to add and since you are friends with Jim Rockell. At the competitors meeting in Montreal Jim handled things extemely well and treated the athletes with respect. Even when a couple of the guys showed up late he was very respectful towards these guys. He also warned everyone ahead of time that there would be many comarisons made and let me tell you that these guys were compared bigtime!!! Hell I was even getting tired watching. ;D
More than a few guys were backstage on their backs during the show needing to rest between comparsions. Jim even gave the guys a few breaks and water was handed out also. I didn't get the chance to tell Jim (not that he would know me ;D) how impressed I was with how things were done so maybe you could for me if you ever get the chance.
As to why this didn't happen at the Olympia my guess would be that someone else was maybe in charge of the callouts and comparisons.
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I knew it was going to be corrupt when I saw Jay's pic next to this on the webcast.
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2007olympia.jpg)
I love how even Joe Weider can be bought. ::)
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You're welcome. :) I would like to add and since you are friends with Jim Rockell. At the competitors meeting in Montreal Jim handled things extemely well and treated the athletes with respect. Even when a couple of the guys showed up late he was very respectful towards these guys. He also warned everyone ahead of time that there would be many cpmarisons made and let me tell you that these guys were compared bigtime!!! Hell I was een getting tired watching. ;D
More than a few guys were backstage on their backs during the show needing to rest between comparsions. Jim even gave the guys a few breaks and water was handed out also. I didn't get the chance to tell Jim (not that he would know me ;D) how impressed I was with how things were done so maybe you could for me if you ever get the chance.
As to why this didn't happen at the Olympia my guess would be that someone else was maybe in charge of the callouts and comparisons.
Yes Jim someone else was in charge of the callouts and comparisons at the Olympia. He goes by the name Muscletech.
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Yes Jim someone else was in charge of the callouts and comparisons at the Olympia. He goes by the name Muscletech.
No dude here are the 7 Judges Name's: ;D
Hydroxycut
Cell-Tech
Nitro-Tech
Adoplan
Leukic
Gakkic
Meso-Tech
2 Fill in's if needed:
Creakic
Nanavapor
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No dude here are the 7 Judges Name's: ;D
Hydroxycut
Cell-Tech
Nitro-Tech
Adoplan
Leukic
Gakkic
Meso-Tech
2 Fill in's if needed:
Creakic
Nanavapor
well done
;D
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You're welcome. :) I would like to add and since you are friends with Jim Rockell. At the competitors meeting in Montreal Jim handled things extemely well and treated the athletes with respect. Even when a couple of the guys showed up late he was very respectful towards these guys. He also warned everyone ahead of time that there would be many comarisons made and let me tell you that these guys were compared bigtime!!! Hell I was even getting tired watching. ;D
More than a few guys were backstage on their backs during the show needing to rest between comparsions. Jim even gave the guys a few breaks and water was handed out also. I didn't get the chance to tell Jim (not that he would know me ;D) how impressed I was with how things were done so maybe you could for me if you ever get the chance.
As to why this didn't happen at the Olympia my guess would be that someone else was maybe in charge of the callouts and comparisons.
Agreed...Jim has done a great job this year.
As per the Olympia...I don't have a big problem other than the obvious...Wolf not getting a callout against Jay. Melvin even got compared to Jay (twice I believe) and ended up finishing BEHIND Wolf....
Other than that, I think the callouts were decent....other than the fan callouts which I would have liked for show appeal...
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WELL - HERE IS IDEA....
Why don't we have 2 or more callouts that AUDIENCE can call...or viewers of the broadcast?
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Or instead of CHALLENGE ROUND - having top ten (at least) choosing a callout against 3-5 guys of their choice?
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Or instead of CHALLENGE ROUND - having top ten (at least) choosing a callout against 3-5 guys of their choice?
OOOHHHHHHHH, thats an idea! Each guy in the top ten gets to pick a 5 man callout!
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OOOHHHHHHHH, thats an idea! Each guy in the top ten gets to pick a 5 man callout!
Nothing like a contest that will last like 5 hours.
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Nothing like a contest that will last like 5 hours.
Good point. I suppose you could get the same group of guys going through 10 rounds of posing. My Bad.
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In the end Wolf really didn't get shafted, the guy finished 5th in his second O for chrissakes.
And there ARE some issues with his physique, the most glaring of which is not being signed by Muscletech ;D
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imo if the comparison top 10 portion was longer it would have made the webcast more dynamic.
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Hi Bob,
Here we are again...
As you announced back in 2006 - you have received conformation from Mr. Jim Manion that starting with IRONMAN 2007 we will have MORE COMPARISONS and if I remember correctly you even used a term: top ten will all be crisscrossed and compared...
At the IRONMAN we had situation where hardly any comparisons took place and as you know - after the prejudging we had somewhat uncomfortable discussion with the judges...
That day Mr. Manion called me and when I asked him WHAT HAPPENED - he suggested that possibly some of the judges were NOT informed about this NEW POLICY (so much for putting things in writing - I guess?)
Well, after I must say pretty good year of NUMEROUS COMPARISONS in many shows (still not as many as expected - but definitely MORE THAN EVER) I was looking foreword to Mr. Olympia - FINAL CONTEST OF THE YEAR...SUPERBOWL OF BODYBUILDING...and being that prejudging is separated from the finals (on Friday night) - it was safe to assume that WE WILL HAVE ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD TO COMPARE each and every athlete even with their own shadows...if we had to...
How and why we didn't have MORE COMPARISONS and how and why some athletes were denied a chance to compete - it is a question I have to ask...
And while some people will suggest that I am talking about "my athletes" - I would like to say - all the athletes are "my athletes" (as just like you Bob - I do care for all the IFBB pros...so fact that I am maybe helping some in preparation doesn't mean I am now against any other...I only like to bring the best out of each and every guy and help them reach their full potential).
So, HOW (!?) for the love of God could IFBB judging panel NOT want to see Dennis Wolf standing right next to (rather: in between) Jay and Victor?
And how for example AC champion Johnnie Jackson was never compared with Melvin Anthony (as Melvin "predicted" at the press conference)...or Ronnie, Dexter, Jay...and how about my dear friend - Hidetada Yamagishi (who's sponsor organized large group of Japanese fans to come to Vegas and witness the history -as Hide is the very first Japanese bodybuilder to ever step on Mr. Olympia stage...just to realize - head judge didn't even know how to pronounce Hidetada's name, making fun of his mistakes...as he thought he is being funny mispronouncing Hidetada's name 5-6 times...).
Guests form Japan were deeply disturbed with that and I must say: rightfully so...
Could it be that after failing to remember his name judge decided NOT to call Hide for additional comparisons (I saw Hide worthy of being compared to his ex training partner Silvio, Gustavo, David H....etc)
When we are talking about THE OLYMPIA...Joe Weider's Mr. Olympia - as ULTIMATE CONTEST at the end of EVERY YEAR - which determines exactly WHO IS THE BEST BODYBUILDER IN THE WORLD...we should have MORE comparisons than normally and certainly not less.
While there are many bellow average IFBB pros at some IFBB professional events - certain comparisons among the athletes are possibly NOT necessary (due to obvious difference in quality)...but Olympians are "special breed" and they are not there by accident...they earned their right to step on that stage through qualification process - as they had to prove themselves - competing and placing in the top 3 in some of the shows prior to Mr. O.
And if judges somehow overlook somebody on Friday...they could see some photos on the Internet (like the "instant replay")....review it... and maybe realize that some competitors DESERVE to be compared to otherwise "protected" champions...
Fans deserve to see it...the whole world does...but we are still not doing it?!?
Agreed 100%
5 minutes after the pre-judging I was making the point how the "psychic" judges can possibly not compare the #1, #2 and #5 (the judges opinions/placings ofcourse) to each other??? The pre-JUDGING is to judge not "guess" what they look like beside each other when they will fall a mere 2-3 placings apart. Ridiculous and a shameful judging process.. or better yet the lack of.
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Hah, its bullshit and there is literally not a damn thing anybody can do about it. What a brilliant little scheme they have running. Jay shouldn't be blamed for the fact he won but he's already convinced himself of a bullshit excuse in that structural flaws comment.
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Agreed...Jim has done a great job this year.
As per the Olympia...I don't have a big problem other than the obvious...Wolf not getting a callout against Jay. Melvin even got compared to Jay (twice I believe) and ended up finishing BEHIND Wolf....
Other than that, I think the callouts were decent....other than the fan callouts which I would have liked for show appeal...
The fact that the head judge thought his repeated mispronunciation of Hidetada's name was funny (name isn't that difficult)
was insulting, not to mention it didn't really make the olympia seem like an "international" contest, even though it
supposed to be an international federation.
Rockell (or whoever is the head judge is) needs to make an effort to learn how to pronouce an olympia competitors name, i think Hide
deserved at least that much.
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Regardless about what some of you guys think about Bob being a "companyman" I know that there a many things that he doesn't like that he would like to see changed for the benefit of the pros, but he can only do so much.
Agree 100%.
Cicherillo is a genuine fan of BB from what I can tell. He himself got shafted in his career, had to watch as blocky BB's placed ahead of him.
Why would he all of a sudden change his opinion of bodybuilding?
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Jay knew to win he would have to stay away from Dennis and Victor. The best man should win yes, but it's a also a game.
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All the judges should bee selected by the athletes competing in any PRO IFBB event, JUST LIKE IN BOXING. The judges from this Mr.O should be suspended for 1year.
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From 15 judges 5 will be selected, the list should include former BBs such Rich Gaspari, Scott Wilson, Samir Benout, Lee Labrada, Lee Haney, Ed Corny, Bob Chic, etc...
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From 15 judges 5 will be selected, the list should include former BBs such Rich Gaspari, Scott Wilson, Samir Benout, Lee Labrada, Lee Haney, Ed Corny, Bob Chic, etc...
Bob, Sean, Lee, Milos and the rest of IFBB members what do you think about my suggestion?
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From 15 judges 5 will be selected, the list should include former BBs such Rich Gaspari, Scott Wilson, Samir Benout, Lee Labrada, Lee Haney, Ed Corny, Bob Chic, etc...
I think the idea is pretty good, but it has flaws.
The judges will mainly be picked based upon availability I'm afraid.
However, rotation of the judges, as Shawn Ray and Cicherillo have been talking about for years, ever since the DeMilia years, should definitely be considered.
It would be good to get some kind of rule written down perhaps on a minimum amounts of comparisons to be done in the top two callouts. Or something like that.
I dunno. Cicherillo can probably think something up.
But getting the BB's to be able to pick the judges themselves, I think that will be hard, economically.
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Bob, Sean, Lee, Milos and the rest of IFBB members what do you think about my suggestion?
I think....there's no way I'm sitting my ass down for hours at a time to judge....it's a thankless job at best....you know, like being an athletes rep..! ;D
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I think the idea is pretty good, but it has flaws.
The judges will mainly be picked based upon availability I'm afraid.
However, rotation of the judges, as Shawn Ray and Cicherillo have been talking about for years, ever since the DeMilia years, should definitely be considered.
It would be good to get some kind of rule written down perhaps on a minimum amounts of comparisons to be done in the top two callouts. Or something like that.
I dunno. Cicherillo can probably think something up.
But getting the BB's to be able to pick the judges themselves, I think that will be hard, economically.
, For the MrO, they can be chosen 30 days in advance and for the other shows the head judge at list.
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Nothing like a contest that will last like 5 hours.
Let's see:
10 guys calling 10 comparisons (8 poses)...maybe 3 minutes each...do the math...
Now - WHOEVER DOESN'T WANT TO SEE COMPARISONS can easily leave the building and come back for posing routines...True fans would watch - FOR HOURS...
I know as I would...
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Let's see:
10 guys calling 10 comparisons (8 poses)...maybe 3 minutes each...do the math...
Now - WHOEVER DOESN'T WANT TO SEE COMPARISONS can easily leave the building and come back for posing routines...True fans would watch - FOR HOURS...
I know as I would...
i would have liked to see Hide compared to Dexter, also would have liked to see Ronnie Rockel compared to both Dexter and Hide.
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I think....there's no way I'm sitting my ass down for hours at a time to judge....it's a thankless job at best....you know, like being an athletes rep..! ;D
That is OK you can stay as a athletes rep, I know you are doing your bets and I know how difficult is to pleas every body. This judging situation need to resolved soon is possible.
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Urgent meeting need to be organized, the bbs have to speak out.
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Urgent meeting need to be organized, the bbs have to speak out.
Whenever Cicherillo tries to hold Athlete's meetings, pretty much noone shows up.
That's part of the problem.
Hopefully, there are other ways to go about this problem.
Lets look at the upside: The judging at the Olympia was really the first one this year that was total bullshit.
The judging in the other shows improved, due to the increased amount of comparisons.
Lets hope that this was a temporarily slip, and lets hope that the people involved will do whatever is possible to prevent it from ever happen again.
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Lets not get to crazy people...other than Wolf not getting a direct comparison to Jay...I thought the comparisons were pretty good.
Whether or not some of you agree with those decisions is another matter...
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Whenever Cicherillo tries to hold Athlete's meetings, pretty much noone shows up.
That's part of the problem.
Hopefully, there are other ways to go about this problem.
Lets look at the upside: The judging at the Olympia was really the first one this year that was total bullshit.
The judging in the other shows improved, due to the increased amount of comparisons.
Lets hope that this was a temporarily slip, and lets hope that the people involved will do whatever is possible to prevent it from ever happen again.
A official letter from Bob on the behalf of the IFBB athletes would get Jim`s attention.
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Lets not get to crazy people...other than Wolf not getting a direct comparison to Jay...I thought the comparisons were pretty good.
Whether or not some of you agree with those decisions is another matter...
It is not about Wolf it is about the integrity of the sport, and was watched by millions around the world.
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Chicks idea makes sense.
Melvin, who finished behind Wolf was compared to Jay.
There just needs to be more cross comparisons being made...espeically with guys they know are going to be top 5 or even top 7. It wouldn't be that hard.
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I think....there's no way I'm sitting my ass down for hours at a time to judge....it's a thankless job at best....you know, like being an athletes rep..!
Judges are far more disgusting than athlete's reps... I mean look at "texasbubba" who lets his prepubescent daughter do stripper moves in front of adult audiences to a soundtrack of "this is why I'm hot". I don't think you'd do something like that, Bob. :-\
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Judges are far more disgusting than athlete's reps... I mean look at "texasbubba" who lets his prepubescent daughter do stripper moves in front of adult audiences to a soundtrack of "this is why I'm hot". I don't think you'd do something like that, Bob. :-\
Well...better to keep your pedo- self away from the kids cheerleading, gymnastics and fittness competitions seeing how you get turned on by it and see them as being sexual....
See you on "Dateline" next month...!
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It is not about Wolf it is about the integrity of the sport, and was watched by millions thousands around the world.
fixed
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Well...better to keep your pedo- self away from the kids cheerleading, gymnastics and fittness competitions seeing how you get turned on by it and see them as being sexual....
See you on "Dateline" next month...!
I think you were sticking up for the Bubba last time this subject came up as well. Maybe you would let your kid do something like that. SICK! >:(
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i thought boasting about 9,000 people in attendance was kind of lame too
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i thought boasting about 9,000 people in attendance was kind of lame too
It would lame except for the fact that we used to get 5,000 people at the Olympia....I think bringing it up almost double in a few years is worth boasting about..
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It would lame except for the fact that we used to get 5,000 people at the Olympia....I think bringing it up almost double in a few years is worth boasting about..
I think that it's very sad that the premier professional bodybuilding show in the World can only attract that much people. There are little league baseball games that attract more people than that... :-\
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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It would lame except for the fact that we used to get 5,000 people at the Olympia....I think bringing it up almost double in a few years is worth boasting about..
I think it's funny all the people that predict doom and gloom for the pro ranks.
Attendance is up, prize money is up and there's a webcast now. These are good things.
Just gotta work on those placings a little
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I think that it's very sad that the premier professional bodybuilding show in the World can only attract that much people. There are little league baseball games that attract that much people... :-\
SUCKMYMUSCLE
It is what it is.
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I think that it's very sad that the premier professional bodybuilding show in the World can only attract that much people. There are little league baseball games that attract that much people... :-\
SUCKMYMUSCLE
There are definitely high school football games that attract that many in Texas.
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I think that it's very sad that the premier professional bodybuilding show in the World can only attract that much people. There are little league baseball games that attract that much people... :-\
SUCKMYMUSCLE
how many do you estimate viewed the webcast live?
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Milos-
I agree 100% with everything you just said....
I too, would like to know why there werent sufficient/ adaquate comparisons...ANYONE in the top 5 should be compared, and especially where there are cross-over comparisons Ex: ( top 5 are called, next 5 are called...I want to see 4,5,6,7 called next...)
I would also like to see what I call "fan friendly" callouts when they are within reason....Johnnie Jackson and Melvin...Darrem and JOJ, and Melvin, etc....all lend to more exciting show.
Milos makes a great point and it would make for a better show. I honestly think the lower tier shows do a BETTER job at call outs than the O. That is why I prefer them as a fan.
As for fan hype call outs I remember the awesome response when Manion called out Tom Prince vs Don Long at the end of the Hvy wt judging at the 95 NPC nationals. It really added to the show.
Real serious fans of this sport LOVE seeing good comparisons on stage.
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I think it's funny all the people that predict doom and gloom for the pro ranks.
Attendance is up, prize money is up and there's a webcast now. These are good things.
Just gotta work on those placings a little
No...it's the Pro Womens Bodybuilding that going down hill......FAST
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how many do you estimate viewed the webcast live?
I'm talking about live attendance. If we go by how much people watched it overral, then we need to compare how many people watch sports like football and basketball overral. And guess what? Bodybuilding is still pathetic. :-\
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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No...it's the Pro Womens Bodybuilding that going down hill......FAST
True
I consider myself a fan of BBing and i don't even know who's good, who's the champ, who's overrated.....none of that shit on the women's side.
They crossed the line about 10 years ago IMO
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I'm talking about live attendance. If we go by how much people watched it overral, then we need to compare how many people watch sports like football and basketball overral. And guess what? Bodybuilding is still pathetic. :-\
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Is any investigation going on agent the judge penal? If yes who is doing the investigation.
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In the end Wolf really didn't get shafted, the guy finished 5th in his second O for chrissakes.
And there ARE some issues with his physique, the most glaring of which is not being signed by Muscletech ;D
Totally disagree...from 1º to 3º he really deserved a spot.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=172274.50
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I have done it already with both victor and jay I will later do it with Ron and dex...but it’s crystal clear to me already...
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Is any investigation going on agent the judge penal? If yes who is doing the investigation.
What's to investigate? Muscletech says "jay wins", so that's what the judges do... simple.
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True
I consider myself a fan of BBing and i don't even know who's good, who's the champ, who's overrated.....none of that shit on the women's side.
They crossed the line about 10 years ago IMO
Shit...I can barely tell you who is Ms Olympia, the contestants....or hell....even the Athlete's Rep
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What's to investigate? Muscletech says "jay wins", so that's what the judges do... simple.
Bob you should have Jim M on next Monday interviewed on the live radio.
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Bob you should have Jim M on next Monday interviewed on the live radio.
I think Manion still has the flu from last time he ducked a PBW interview.
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Bottomline.........feder al investigation >:(
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Bottomline.........federal investigation >:(
The feds couldn't give a shit.
Unless you can somehow work "steroids" into the whole thing, that is! ;D
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I think that it's very sad that the premier professional bodybuilding show in the World can only attract that much people. There are little league baseball games that attract more people than that... :-\
SUCKMYMUSCLE
9000 in the sold out olympia audiance is a major jump. If you look at the size of the crowd in the movie pumping iron it was just a few 100 . For some reason I still prefer/enjoy the smaller pro shows however.
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If you look at the size of the crowd in the movie pumping iron it was just a few 100.
Yeah, and they were all muscle queens... :-\
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Bob you should have Jim M on next Monday interviewed on the live radio.
I say the people would like him on
Bob....make it happen
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I think it's funny all the people that predict doom and gloom for the pro ranks.
Attendance is up, prize money is up and there's a webcast now. These are good things.
Just gotta work on those placings a little
Now thats being positive Groink !!!
I must confess I just shook my head when Mr. Manion told Milos that some of the judges may not have gotten the information about the new comparisons revision.
Maybe next time I'll have my 14 year old handle that. It seems too much of a crap shoot to have anyone in the IFBB handle it without screwing it up.
What a joke !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As Austin Powers would say: 'HONESTLY NOW" !!!!!!!!!!! ::)
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I think it's funny all the people that predict doom and gloom for the pro ranks.
Attendance is up, prize money is up and there's a webcast now. These are good things.
Just gotta work on those placings a little
Seems like bodybuilding is starting to find its place with the new media technology.
Deluca and the boys are doing a good job at exploring it.
Hopefully others will follow.
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I think Wolf looked awesome- I would have had him 4th behind Jay Dex and Victor in no paticular order...
My only gripe is that comparison between him and Jay you guys keep showing of the front crab most muscular.
Wolf looks huge no doubt, but he beats Cutler in that shot mainly because Jay poses like a retard in that shot and doesnt push his traps forward. Hes been fucking up that pose for a couple of years now. If Jay executed it correctly I dont think Wolf beats him in that pose.
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Milos-
I agree 100% with everything you just said....
I too, would like to know why there werent sufficient/ adaquate comparisons...ANYONE in the top 5 should be compared, and especially where there are cross-over comparisons Ex: ( top 5 are called, next 5 are called...I want to see 4,5,6,7 called next...)
I would also like to see what I call "fan friendly" callouts when they are within reason....Johnnie Jackson and Melvin...Darrem and JOJ, and Melvin, etc....all lend to more exciting show.
Nice post Bob. I'm serious man, really nice post.
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Totally disagree...from 1º to 3º he really deserved a spot.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=172274.50
Victors calf's looked much improved. Must be those...umm..seated calf raises ;D
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Hi Bob,
Here we are again...
As you announced back in 2006 - you have received conformation from Mr. Jim Manion that starting with IRONMAN 2007 we will have MORE COMPARISONS and if I remember correctly you even used a term: top ten will all be crisscrossed and compared...
At the IRONMAN we had situation where hardly any comparisons took place and as you know - after the prejudging we had somewhat uncomfortable discussion with the judges...
That day Mr. Manion called me and when I asked him WHAT HAPPENED - he suggested that possibly some of the judges were NOT informed about this NEW POLICY (so much for putting things in writing - I guess?)
Well, after I must say pretty good year of NUMEROUS COMPARISONS in many shows (still not as many as expected - but definitely MORE THAN EVER) I was looking foreword to Mr. Olympia - FINAL CONTEST OF THE YEAR...SUPERBOWL OF BODYBUILDING...and being that prejudging is separated from the finals (on Friday night) - it was safe to assume that WE WILL HAVE ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD TO COMPARE each and every athlete even with their own shadows...if we had to...
How and why we didn't have MORE COMPARISONS and how and why some athletes were denied a chance to compete - it is a question I have to ask...
And while some people will suggest that I am talking about "my athletes" - I would like to say - all the athletes are "my athletes" (as just like you Bob - I do care for all the IFBB pros...so fact that I am maybe helping some in preparation doesn't mean I am now against any other...I only like to bring the best out of each and every guy and help them reach their full potential).
So, HOW (!?) for the love of God could IFBB judging panel NOT want to see Dennis Wolf standing right next to (rather: in between) Jay and Victor?
And how for example AC champion Johnnie Jackson was never compared with Melvin Anthony (as Melvin "predicted" at the press conference)...or Ronnie, Dexter, Jay...and how about my dear friend - Hidetada Yamagishi (who's sponsor organized large group of Japanese fans to come to Vegas and witness the history -as Hide is the very first Japanese bodybuilder to ever step on Mr. Olympia stage...just to realize - head judge didn't even know how to pronounce Hidetada's name, making fun of his mistakes...as he thought he is being funny mispronouncing Hidetada's name 5-6 times...).
Guests form Japan were deeply disturbed with that and I must say: rightfully so...
Could it be that after failing to remember his name judge decided NOT to call Hide for additional comparisons (I saw Hide worthy of being compared to his ex training partner Silvio, Gustavo, David H....etc)
When we are talking about THE OLYMPIA...Joe Weider's Mr. Olympia - as ULTIMATE CONTEST at the end of EVERY YEAR - which determines exactly WHO IS THE BEST BODYBUILDER IN THE WORLD...we should have MORE comparisons than normally and certainly not less.
While there are many bellow average IFBB pros at some IFBB professional events - certain comparisons among the athletes are possibly NOT necessary (due to obvious difference in quality)...but Olympians are "special breed" and they are not there by accident...they earned their right to step on that stage through qualification process - as they had to prove themselves - competing and placing in the top 3 in some of the shows prior to Mr. O.
And if judges somehow overlook somebody on Friday...they could see some photos on the Internet (like the "instant replay")....review it... and maybe realize that some competitors DESERVE to be compared to otherwise "protected" champions...
Fans deserve to see it...the whole world does...but we are still not doing it?!?
When are you gonna bring back the money you own?
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The only excuse that makes any sense for not comparing Dennis to Jay and Vic is that the judges knew that was a bad comparison for their bought champion.
look how wolf is dwarfing jay here! why do you think comparisons never took place? jay was already declared the winner before the show started!
perfect exemple why ifbb is a joke, stupid juges and owner.
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ok...time to revisit... ;D
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ok...time to revisit... ;D
Wolf just needs to compete at every show as he looked in 2007. If he can bring up his upper back thickness too, then great.
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I agree with what seemed to be lack of comparisons, with 6 guys at once etc. At the Arnold, if i recall correctly, they were worked a lot harder. The front runners where called out time and time again at that show. It should have been similar at the O.
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There is a fine line between enough comparisons, and beating them into the ground.
So far, I have yet to hear one single complaint from any of the athletes
I thought they had plenty of stage time, and enough crossover comparisons
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There is a fine line between enough comparisons, and beating them into the ground.
So far, I have yet to hear one single complaint from any of the athletes
I thought they had plenty of stage time, and enough crossover comparisons
You probably dont hear more "complaints" from the atheletes, because the atheletes are rather apethetic to change. You yourself said that everytime you tried to have an atheletes meeting, that no one would show up. Sadly I dont think that pointing out a lack of complaints is really saying all that much. They are unhappy with the status quo, but too lazy to do anything about it.
M!