Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: McFarland on October 08, 2007, 01:50:55 PM
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;D
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:-X
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oh shit. thats the sickest most straited tricep ever :o
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He's holding too much water...
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unreal
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Bodybuilders back in the days and nowadays.... ;D
(http://www.team-andro.com/phpBB2/files/thumbs/t_479_1_1_355.jpg) (http://www.flexonline.com/07contests/07olympia/menshow/15/images/NR0M7230.jpg)
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what is he up to these days ???
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what is he up to these days ???
ha ha
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a tricep to die for!!!
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Bodybuilders back in the days and nowadays.... ;D
(http://www.team-andro.com/phpBB2/files/thumbs/t_479_1_1_355.jpg) (http://www.flexonline.com/07contests/07olympia/menshow/15/images/NR0M7230.jpg)
Wow! He makes Cutler look fat. Check this out:
http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/1987mrolympiadvdreview.html
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/mrolympia1987/111.jpg)
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Munzer was most ripped guy ever imo him and that momo guy aways came in shape pity they are no longer with us guys today just look too bloated and watery
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it looks painfull.
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Munzer was most ripped guy ever imo him and that momo guy aways came in shape pity they are no longer with us guys today just look too bloated and watery
At least we have Vice Goodrum today who brings Munzer-like conditioning back to the stage...
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I remember seeing that first pic in Flex. Looked unreal, and still does.
McFarland, do you think he used insulin? LOL
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it looks painfull.
It is... I think munzer more then likely kept his calories way to low while dieting and relied heavily on drugs to preserve all his mass. I imagine this is key when getting shredded like that.
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a tricep to die for!!!
And he did die for that Tricep!!!
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I remember seeing that first pic in Flex. Looked unreal, and still does.
McFarland, do you think he used insulin? LOL
I think he was probably quite the pioneer on alot of chemical fronts. I wonder how he went about figuring it all out. He was probably using alot of stuff before anyone else was. I wish there was someone we could ask about some of his theories or whatnot, don't you? It's a shame he died without that knowledge base having been tapped, that we know of.
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I think he was probably quite the pioneer on alot of chemical fronts. I wonder how he went about figuring it all out. He was probably using alot of stuff before anyone else was. I wish there was someone we could ask about some of his theories or whatnot, don't you? It's a shame he died without that knowledge base having been tapped, that we know of.
I think those BF levels could be achieved safely, it's really the water that is dangerous.
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I think those BF levels could be achieved safely, it's really the water that is dangerous.
Well at some point I think you'd actually need to dehydrate the fat cells to get it down that low, so in the end I think it's still dangerous, for whatever reason.
"The lesson I learned is that we too easily deceive ourselves into thinking we're exerting enough effort. To take ourselves over the top, enough is never enough. Only more than we ever thought possible is enough."
--Andreas Munzer, Flex Magazine, December 2005
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Well at some point I think you'd actually need to dehydrate the fat cells to get it down that low, so in the end I think it's still dangerous, for whatever reason.
"The lesson I learned is that we too easily deceive ourselves into thinking we're exerting enough effort. To take ourselves over the top, enough is never enough. Only more than we ever thought possible is enough."
--Andreas Munzer, Flex Magazine, December 2005
OMG the funny thing is they are printing that quote for inspiration and not as a caution.
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OMG the funny thing is they are printing that quote for inspiration and not as a caution.
truer words were never spoken.
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;D
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The man died because he was an extremist; it wasn't worth his life.
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..looks painful
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Dude liquified his organs. Youch.
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Dude liquified his organs. Youch.
maybe Munzer liked having razor sharp cuts and striations, rearden.
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maybe Munzer liked having razor sharp cuts and striations, rearden.
Yeah didn't he refuse a blood transfusion? I hear that was all that was needed to save him.
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Yeah didn't he refuse a blood transfusion? I hear that was all that was needed to save him.
hahahaha, hardcore, now that's what i call "living the dream". ;D
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Yeah didn't he refuse a blood transfusion? I hear that was all that was needed to save him.
was he a JW?
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Yeah didn't he refuse a blood transfusion? I hear that was all that was needed to save him.
he didn't want to spill over...way more hardcore than Stavios' friend refusing the pedialyte.
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Truly the Vince Goodrum of the 90's
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Bodybuilders back in the days and nowadays.... ;D
(http://www.team-andro.com/phpBB2/files/thumbs/t_479_1_1_355.jpg) (http://www.flexonline.com/07contests/07olympia/menshow/15/images/NR0M7230.jpg)
his head doesnt fit his body. or maybe vice versa.
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he didn't want to spill over...way more hardcore than Stavios' friend refusing the pedialyte.
Hahahah, he refused because he only wanted blood infused with creatine.
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Hahahah, he refused because he only wanted blood infused with creatine.
he needed this:
(http://www.bodyactive-online.co.uk/Images/Sh/main/PdMMUSA-ATPAdvantage.jpg)
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He really refused the blood transfusion?
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He really refused the blood transfusion?
probably for religious reasons..
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probably for religious reasons..
Doubt he was religious.
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Doubt he was religious.
Maybe not in practice in day to day life (like most people) but there's always certain rules people don't break- for example you'll see the worst muslims who won't drink. Hypocritical and stupid, but that's how it is.
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maybe Munzer liked having razor sharp cuts and striations, rearden.
Imagine shitting out your spleen while wondering if your butthole is ripped, too?
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"The lesson I learned is that we too easily deceive ourselves into thinking we're exerting enough effort. To take ourselves over the top, enough is never enough. Only more than we ever thought possible is enough."
--Andreas Munzer, Flex Magazine, December 2005
in what context was flex using this quote?
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;D
Freaking amazing conditioning...and to think 98% of the pros nowadays couldn't put a striation together to save their lives. (no pun intended)
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his head doesnt fit his body. or maybe vice versa.
jesus what a fuckin rug!
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You resemble him in the face Mc.
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Sunday October 31, 2004
The Observer
He went to the stage as hard as a bag full of nails. He looked like the eighth wonder of the world up there: 17 stone of muscle and bone and not much else. He was huge and dense and cut. He had 21-inch arms, a 58-inch chest and enough junk in his bloodstream to kill a horse. It was certainly killing him. He lived in agony. If he had still had the will to turn his head to the left, he would have seen other men like him, Godzillas of the iron game. To his right, the same. They looked barely human.
They looked like a sub-strain, a spin-off, a genetic joke.
He was so dry that his lips kept sticking together. His body was arid. The last of his sweat rolled slowly down him, streamed by his deep striations. It left light streaks in his tinned tan. Andi fixed his feet harder into the floor and squeezed his unsteady muscle one more time.
The other guys still had some zap and heft and zing left in them. Kevin Levrone, 'The Maryland Muscle Machine', was ripped and zipped; Kenny 'Flex' Wheeler was as austere and beautiful as a Greek statue; Paul Dillett had a chest by Jackson Pollock, splattered with fat chunks of vein; Vince Taylor brought out his galactic shoulders; Shawn Ray ran as thick as a bull, front to back. It was a war of the strangest kind. Huge men in spangly thongs shoved each other aside so they could hit muscleman poses. There were 4,000 people watching them do it and they were going off while they did. The Veterans' Memorial Arena was a mushroom farm of jumping muscle. Most of the crowd were bodybuilders of a sort themselves - there were women who could have beaten the living crap out of you.
Andi already knew that the game was up. This was the final round of competition, the posedown - a concocted crowd-pleaser. It existed mainly to allow the judges time to verify the scores. Levrone, Ray and Dillett jumped from the stage and walked into the stalls so the fans could see them close up. They posed for photos. They gripped and grinned. Andi held on at the edge of the platform. There, perhaps one more judge might catch the final nuances of his development. Perhaps one more judge might move him up by one more place. Perhaps Arnold Schwarzenegger himself would look up from his seat in row two and understand that Andi's head had blazed with his name for 20 years. Perhaps then he would finally get his due and perhaps it would tip the balance of his life. His name was Andreas Munzer. For a decade, he had been the greatest bodybuilder in the German-speaking world.
Head judge Wayne DeMilia called the last six competitors into line. Schwarzenegger now stood in the wings ready to present the prizes. He had not been a bodybuilder for a long time; it had been 16 years since he was Mr Olympia 1980. But he remained the talisman of muscle. The Arnold Classic contest was named after him, promoted by him and dedicated to his glory.
In professional bodybuilding events, results were announced in reverse order. Andi would die soon, but he wouldn't die wondering. DeMilia said: 'Sixth place ... winning five thousand dollars ... from Austria ... Andreas Munzer...'
Andi picked up a slim cheque and a joke trophy. The applause was thin and slow. The crowd already had Munzer sixth. This was how things often were at the top shows. The consensus of years informed results. The judges had muscle memory, too.
There was a truism in bodybuilding: be born black or German. These were the favoured genetic lines. Through them, muscle thrummed down generations. Andi's people were farmers, 'simple with weather-tanned faces' as the press would later describe them. They lived a mile or so from the Modriacher Stausee reservoir near a village called Pack in the rural Austrian region of Styria. They ran a dairy business that just about kept them afloat. Andi absorbed their ethic of stoic self-improvement. He was a quiet boy and a hard worker. Andi paid his dues in the fields. He liked to play the trumpet in a local band, a Musikkapelle. During the summer, he played football. During winter, he skied.
Andi was hired as a toolmaker in Flach, a town 10 kilometres from the farm. He didn't have a car so he took the bus. Between finishing work and catching the bus home, Andi had a two-hour wait. 'To loaf about and drink beer was not his thing,' his father Killian said. Andi joined a gym instead. Passing time waiting for a bus home, he connected with his strange fate. Andi got big quick. The weight hooked up with those juiced-up Germanic genes. Ethics of work and sacrifice ran deep in Andi, too. His muscles began to haul him out of obscurity.
Andi's God was Schwarzenegger. Arnold was Austrian. Moreover, Arnold was Styrian. Arnold came from Thal, Andi from Pack. Arnold took up bodybuilding after seeing a muscleman working out by a mountain reservoir. Andi grew up by one. Arnold became the greatest bodybuilder in the German-speaking world. Andi was striving towards that end. Arnold was a seven-time Mr Olympia. Now he was a movie star, perhaps the planet's most driven man.
In the gyms, everyone was juicing. To succeed in professional bodybuilding, you had to. But you had to do many other things too. If winning pro shows was as easy as taking steroids, every loser iron-junkie, every tragic muscle rat, would be Mr Olympia.
Somehow, somewhere, at some point, Andi joined in. He had no choice. In chess, there is a position called zugzwang, where you must make a move, even though that move will cause you to lose. Drugs were Andi's zugzwang. Drugs were bodybuilding's zugzwang.
As he became more successful, Andi moved to Munich, where he was known as one of the nicest men in a sport mostly populated by meatheads, narcissists, egoists, attention-seekers, overcompensators and the terminally aggrieved. It was a sport that demanded extremity, so it attracted extremists. Andi was no such thing.
But he had made the deal. The Munich Andi would play the zugzwang. He hit some heavy cycles: he injected two ampoules of testosterone a day; he took the oral steroids Halotestin and Anabol; he combined them with Masteron and Parabolan; he used between four and 24 units of the growth hormone STH. Steroids aided muscle repair and general recovery; they allowed him to train with greater intensity. He combined different steroid types to maximum effect. He found that STH, the synthetic growth hormone, mimicked human growth hormone; it made everything grow - muscles, bones, organs, tissues. He ate 6-8,000 calories a day to nourish his muscles. He used insulin to stimulate his metabolism and churn the calories more quickly; he used at least five aspirin tablets each morning to thin his blood and help with the pain of training; he used ephedrine and Captagon to increase his intensity on the weights.
Fifteen weeks or so from competition, he would begin a rigorous diet designed to reduce his body fat. He would come down to 2,000 calories a day. In the days and hours before a show he used Aldactone and Lasix, both diuretics, to rid himself of the last of his water. Most pros would get close to competition shape once or twice a year. Anything else demanded too much; Andi maintained a reputation for always being in shape, or close to it.
The stomach pains had begun some months before Andi went to Columbus, Ohio, for the 1996 Arnold Classic. At first it was just more pain, and pain was the currency of muscle. Andi paid it little heed. It dug in and nestled down with all the other pain: the agonies of training, the banal deprivations of dieting down, the pulls, nicks, strains, jags and twists of the gym. But it kept coming back and its payload was different. A connoisseur of pain like Andi would soon have been able to tell. He would have been able to recognise it and rank it as something special in the pain game, something more exotic than the stuff he usually bore. He began to mention it to friends at the gym. He tried some health cures that would strengthen his stomach lining. Perhaps if Andi had quit training then, if he had turned away from the withering deprivations of another round of competition and stopped juicing he might have survived. Instead, the boy from Pack made himself ready to compete in front of the boy from Thal, in front of his hero.
After his sixth place at the Arnold Classic on 2 March 1996, Andi's mood remained low. 'Man, why don't you laugh?' a German official had said. 'You're the best white guy behind five Negroes.' Andi was never going to laugh at that. Best white guy. Best German speaker. All of the pain and deprivation, all of the gym seminars and pain-filled nights for those worthless epithets.
On the morning of 13 March, Andi's stomach pains became intense. His gut was swollen and hard. His bill had come in. He was fairly sure that this time he couldn't meet it. The debt was too big. The agony grew.
He was taken to hospital. Doctors there diagnosed the bleed, but could not prevent it continuing. He was transferred to the University Clinic. At 7pm, surgeons decided to operate to stop the bleeding inside Andi's stomach. Andi came through the operation, but his problems had multiplied catastrophically. His blood was viscous and slow-moving. His potassium levels were excessively high. He had been dehydrated by the diuretics he used in the days before his last competitions. His liver was melting. A post-mortem would find that it had dissolved almost completely. Andi's body went into shock. After his liver failed, his kidneys did too. He was offered a blood transfusion, but it was too late. Andi's heart held out for a while - he had always had a big heart - but by morning Munzer had joined the ranks of the bodybuilding dead.
Arnold Schwarzenegger sent a wreath from Hollywood to Andi's grave in Styria. The message was simple. It read: 'A last greeting to a friend.'
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Bodybuilders back in the days and nowadays.... ;D
(http://www.team-andro.com/phpBB2/files/thumbs/t_479_1_1_355.jpg) (http://www.flexonline.com/07contests/07olympia/menshow/15/images/NR0M7230.jpg)
I honestly wonder how Jay can sleep at night knowing that this Olympia is the biggest joke in Olympia history.
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I honestly wonder how Jay can sleep at night knowing that this Olympia is the biggest joke in Olympia history.
He won 155k and on the plus side he is a millionaire....problary sleep pretty well... ;D ;D ;D
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The Dude was PEELED !!
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That was a cool article shiftedshapes. thanks
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Sunday October 31, 2004
The Observer
He went to the stage as hard as a bag full of nails. He looked like the eighth wonder of the world up there: 17 stone of muscle and bone and not much else. He was huge and dense and cut. He had 21-inch arms, a 58-inch chest and enough junk in his bloodstream to kill a horse. It was certainly killing him. He lived in agony. If he had still had the will to turn his head to the left, he would have seen other men like him, Godzillas of the iron game. To his right, the same. They looked barely human.
They looked like a sub-strain, a spin-off, a genetic joke.
He was so dry that his lips kept sticking together. His body was arid. The last of his sweat rolled slowly down him, streamed by his deep striations. It left light streaks in his tinned tan. Andi fixed his feet harder into the floor and squeezed his unsteady muscle one more time.
The other guys still had some zap and heft and zing left in them. Kevin Levrone, 'The Maryland Muscle Machine', was ripped and zipped; Kenny 'Flex' Wheeler was as austere and beautiful as a Greek statue; Paul Dillett had a chest by Jackson Pollock, splattered with fat chunks of vein; Vince Taylor brought out his galactic shoulders; Shawn Ray ran as thick as a bull, front to back. It was a war of the strangest kind. Huge men in spangly thongs shoved each other aside so they could hit muscleman poses. There were 4,000 people watching them do it and they were going off while they did. The Veterans' Memorial Arena was a mushroom farm of jumping muscle. Most of the crowd were bodybuilders of a sort themselves - there were women who could have beaten the living crap out of you.
Andi already knew that the game was up. This was the final round of competition, the posedown - a concocted crowd-pleaser. It existed mainly to allow the judges time to verify the scores. Levrone, Ray and Dillett jumped from the stage and walked into the stalls so the fans could see them close up. They posed for photos. They gripped and grinned. Andi held on at the edge of the platform. There, perhaps one more judge might catch the final nuances of his development. Perhaps one more judge might move him up by one more place. Perhaps Arnold Schwarzenegger himself would look up from his seat in row two and understand that Andi's head had blazed with his name for 20 years. Perhaps then he would finally get his due and perhaps it would tip the balance of his life. His name was Andreas Munzer. For a decade, he had been the greatest bodybuilder in the German-speaking world.
Head judge Wayne DeMilia called the last six competitors into line. Schwarzenegger now stood in the wings ready to present the prizes. He had not been a bodybuilder for a long time; it had been 16 years since he was Mr Olympia 1980. But he remained the talisman of muscle. The Arnold Classic contest was named after him, promoted by him and dedicated to his glory.
In professional bodybuilding events, results were announced in reverse order. Andi would die soon, but he wouldn't die wondering. DeMilia said: 'Sixth place ... winning five thousand dollars ... from Austria ... Andreas Munzer...'
Andi picked up a slim cheque and a joke trophy. The applause was thin and slow. The crowd already had Munzer sixth. This was how things often were at the top shows. The consensus of years informed results. The judges had muscle memory, too.
There was a truism in bodybuilding: be born black or German. These were the favoured genetic lines. Through them, muscle thrummed down generations. Andi's people were farmers, 'simple with weather-tanned faces' as the press would later describe them. They lived a mile or so from the Modriacher Stausee reservoir near a village called Pack in the rural Austrian region of Styria. They ran a dairy business that just about kept them afloat. Andi absorbed their ethic of stoic self-improvement. He was a quiet boy and a hard worker. Andi paid his dues in the fields. He liked to play the trumpet in a local band, a Musikkapelle. During the summer, he played football. During winter, he skied.
Andi was hired as a toolmaker in Flach, a town 10 kilometres from the farm. He didn't have a car so he took the bus. Between finishing work and catching the bus home, Andi had a two-hour wait. 'To loaf about and drink beer was not his thing,' his father Killian said. Andi joined a gym instead. Passing time waiting for a bus home, he connected with his strange fate. Andi got big quick. The weight hooked up with those juiced-up Germanic genes. Ethics of work and sacrifice ran deep in Andi, too. His muscles began to haul him out of obscurity.
Andi's God was Schwarzenegger. Arnold was Austrian. Moreover, Arnold was Styrian. Arnold came from Thal, Andi from Pack. Arnold took up bodybuilding after seeing a muscleman working out by a mountain reservoir. Andi grew up by one. Arnold became the greatest bodybuilder in the German-speaking world. Andi was striving towards that end. Arnold was a seven-time Mr Olympia. Now he was a movie star, perhaps the planet's most driven man.
In the gyms, everyone was juicing. To succeed in professional bodybuilding, you had to. But you had to do many other things too. If winning pro shows was as easy as taking steroids, every loser iron-junkie, every tragic muscle rat, would be Mr Olympia.
Somehow, somewhere, at some point, Andi joined in. He had no choice. In chess, there is a position called zugzwang, where you must make a move, even though that move will cause you to lose. Drugs were Andi's zugzwang. Drugs were bodybuilding's zugzwang.
As he became more successful, Andi moved to Munich, where he was known as one of the nicest men in a sport mostly populated by meatheads, narcissists, egoists, attention-seekers, overcompensators and the terminally aggrieved. It was a sport that demanded extremity, so it attracted extremists. Andi was no such thing.
But he had made the deal. The Munich Andi would play the zugzwang. He hit some heavy cycles: he injected two ampoules of testosterone a day; he took the oral steroids Halotestin and Anabol; he combined them with Masteron and Parabolan; he used between four and 24 units of the growth hormone STH. Steroids aided muscle repair and general recovery; they allowed him to train with greater intensity. He combined different steroid types to maximum effect. He found that STH, the synthetic growth hormone, mimicked human growth hormone; it made everything grow - muscles, bones, organs, tissues. He ate 6-8,000 calories a day to nourish his muscles. He used insulin to stimulate his metabolism and churn the calories more quickly; he used at least five aspirin tablets each morning to thin his blood and help with the pain of training; he used ephedrine and Captagon to increase his intensity on the weights.
Fifteen weeks or so from competition, he would begin a rigorous diet designed to reduce his body fat. He would come down to 2,000 calories a day. In the days and hours before a show he used Aldactone and Lasix, both diuretics, to rid himself of the last of his water. Most pros would get close to competition shape once or twice a year. Anything else demanded too much; Andi maintained a reputation for always being in shape, or close to it.
The stomach pains had begun some months before Andi went to Columbus, Ohio, for the 1996 Arnold Classic. At first it was just more pain, and pain was the currency of muscle. Andi paid it little heed. It dug in and nestled down with all the other pain: the agonies of training, the banal deprivations of dieting down, the pulls, nicks, strains, jags and twists of the gym. But it kept coming back and its payload was different. A connoisseur of pain like Andi would soon have been able to tell. He would have been able to recognise it and rank it as something special in the pain game, something more exotic than the stuff he usually bore. He began to mention it to friends at the gym. He tried some health cures that would strengthen his stomach lining. Perhaps if Andi had quit training then, if he had turned away from the withering deprivations of another round of competition and stopped juicing he might have survived. Instead, the boy from Pack made himself ready to compete in front of the boy from Thal, in front of his hero.
After his sixth place at the Arnold Classic on 2 March 1996, Andi's mood remained low. 'Man, why don't you laugh?' a German official had said. 'You're the best white guy behind five Negroes.' Andi was never going to laugh at that. Best white guy. Best German speaker. All of the pain and deprivation, all of the gym seminars and pain-filled nights for those worthless epithets.
On the morning of 13 March, Andi's stomach pains became intense. His gut was swollen and hard. His bill had come in. He was fairly sure that this time he couldn't meet it. The debt was too big. The agony grew.
He was taken to hospital. Doctors there diagnosed the bleed, but could not prevent it continuing. He was transferred to the University Clinic. At 7pm, surgeons decided to operate to stop the bleeding inside Andi's stomach. Andi came through the operation, but his problems had multiplied catastrophically. His blood was viscous and slow-moving. His potassium levels were excessively high. He had been dehydrated by the diuretics he used in the days before his last competitions. His liver was melting. A post-mortem would find that it had dissolved almost completely. Andi's body went into shock. After his liver failed, his kidneys did too. He was offered a blood transfusion, but it was too late. Andi's heart held out for a while - he had always had a big heart - but by morning Munzer had joined the ranks of the bodybuilding dead.
Arnold Schwarzenegger sent a wreath from Hollywood to Andi's grave in Styria. The message was simple. It read: 'A last greeting to a friend.'
I never get tired of reading this ... amazing Pics, btw. Munzer was WAY ahead of his time ... R.I.P, Munzer. :(
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WOW WHAT A PEELED ATHLETE HE NEEDS TO SHOW JAY HIS FORMULA AND PEOPLE WOULDNT QUESTION JAYS WINS ;)
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I trained with Munzer back in Austria in 1994. It was in the offseason but that didīnt matter, he was crosstriated all over anyway. His triceps still sometimes pops out in my dreams, it was the freakiest thing ever. He said something in the lines of "all i ever care about is being ripped, 24/7". We had some hardcore workouts together, at one point I would be messed up after legs and went to the closest wastebag to throw up, and that bag was filled up with empty packs of dianabol and all sorts of other pills. He was hardcore, and a nice guy. To bad he is dead.
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I trained with Munzer back in Austria in 1994. It was in the offseason but that didīnt matter, he was crosstriated all over anyway. His triceps still sometimes pops out in my dreams, it was the freakiest thing ever. He said something in the lines of "all i ever care about is being ripped, 24/7". We had some hardcore workouts together, at one point I would be messed up after legs and went to the closest wastebag to throw up, and that bag was filled up with empty packs of dianabol and all sorts of other pills. He was hardcore, and a nice guy. To bad he is dead.
DAMN ! Any more Stories ... DO TELL !! Btw, I KNOW that some people will be calling " Bullshit " on this, however, I'm willing to believe you ... so, with that being said ... ANY MORE STORIES ?? :)
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Sunday October 31, 2004
The Observer
He went to the stage as hard as a bag full of nails. He looked like the eighth wonder of the world up there: 17 stone of muscle and bone and not much else. He was huge and dense and cut. He had 21-inch arms, a 58-inch chest and enough junk in his bloodstream to kill a horse. It was certainly killing him. He lived in agony. If he had still had the will to turn his head to the left, he would have seen other men like him, Godzillas of the iron game. To his right, the same. They looked barely human.
They looked like a sub-strain, a spin-off, a genetic joke.
He was so dry that his lips kept sticking together. His body was arid. The last of his sweat rolled slowly down him, streamed by his deep striations. It left light streaks in his tinned tan. Andi fixed his feet harder into the floor and squeezed his unsteady muscle one more time.
The other guys still had some zap and heft and zing left in them. Kevin Levrone, 'The Maryland Muscle Machine', was ripped and zipped; Kenny 'Flex' Wheeler was as austere and beautiful as a Greek statue; Paul Dillett had a chest by Jackson Pollock, splattered with fat chunks of vein; Vince Taylor brought out his galactic shoulders; Shawn Ray ran as thick as a bull, front to back. It was a war of the strangest kind. Huge men in spangly thongs shoved each other aside so they could hit muscleman poses. There were 4,000 people watching them do it and they were going off while they did. The Veterans' Memorial Arena was a mushroom farm of jumping muscle. Most of the crowd were bodybuilders of a sort themselves - there were women who could have beaten the living crap out of you.
Andi already knew that the game was up. This was the final round of competition, the posedown - a concocted crowd-pleaser. It existed mainly to allow the judges time to verify the scores. Levrone, Ray and Dillett jumped from the stage and walked into the stalls so the fans could see them close up. They posed for photos. They gripped and grinned. Andi held on at the edge of the platform. There, perhaps one more judge might catch the final nuances of his development. Perhaps one more judge might move him up by one more place. Perhaps Arnold Schwarzenegger himself would look up from his seat in row two and understand that Andi's head had blazed with his name for 20 years. Perhaps then he would finally get his due and perhaps it would tip the balance of his life. His name was Andreas Munzer. For a decade, he had been the greatest bodybuilder in the German-speaking world.
Head judge Wayne DeMilia called the last six competitors into line. Schwarzenegger now stood in the wings ready to present the prizes. He had not been a bodybuilder for a long time; it had been 16 years since he was Mr Olympia 1980. But he remained the talisman of muscle. The Arnold Classic contest was named after him, promoted by him and dedicated to his glory.
In professional bodybuilding events, results were announced in reverse order. Andi would die soon, but he wouldn't die wondering. DeMilia said: 'Sixth place ... winning five thousand dollars ... from Austria ... Andreas Munzer...'
Andi picked up a slim cheque and a joke trophy. The applause was thin and slow. The crowd already had Munzer sixth. This was how things often were at the top shows. The consensus of years informed results. The judges had muscle memory, too.
There was a truism in bodybuilding: be born black or German. These were the favoured genetic lines. Through them, muscle thrummed down generations. Andi's people were farmers, 'simple with weather-tanned faces' as the press would later describe them. They lived a mile or so from the Modriacher Stausee reservoir near a village called Pack in the rural Austrian region of Styria. They ran a dairy business that just about kept them afloat. Andi absorbed their ethic of stoic self-improvement. He was a quiet boy and a hard worker. Andi paid his dues in the fields. He liked to play the trumpet in a local band, a Musikkapelle. During the summer, he played football. During winter, he skied.
Andi was hired as a toolmaker in Flach, a town 10 kilometres from the farm. He didn't have a car so he took the bus. Between finishing work and catching the bus home, Andi had a two-hour wait. 'To loaf about and drink beer was not his thing,' his father Killian said. Andi joined a gym instead. Passing time waiting for a bus home, he connected with his strange fate. Andi got big quick. The weight hooked up with those juiced-up Germanic genes. Ethics of work and sacrifice ran deep in Andi, too. His muscles began to haul him out of obscurity.
Andi's God was Schwarzenegger. Arnold was Austrian. Moreover, Arnold was Styrian. Arnold came from Thal, Andi from Pack. Arnold took up bodybuilding after seeing a muscleman working out by a mountain reservoir. Andi grew up by one. Arnold became the greatest bodybuilder in the German-speaking world. Andi was striving towards that end. Arnold was a seven-time Mr Olympia. Now he was a movie star, perhaps the planet's most driven man.
In the gyms, everyone was juicing. To succeed in professional bodybuilding, you had to. But you had to do many other things too. If winning pro shows was as easy as taking steroids, every loser iron-junkie, every tragic muscle rat, would be Mr Olympia.
Somehow, somewhere, at some point, Andi joined in. He had no choice. In chess, there is a position called zugzwang, where you must make a move, even though that move will cause you to lose. Drugs were Andi's zugzwang. Drugs were bodybuilding's zugzwang.
As he became more successful, Andi moved to Munich, where he was known as one of the nicest men in a sport mostly populated by meatheads, narcissists, egoists, attention-seekers, overcompensators and the terminally aggrieved. It was a sport that demanded extremity, so it attracted extremists. Andi was no such thing.
But he had made the deal. The Munich Andi would play the zugzwang. He hit some heavy cycles: he injected two ampoules of testosterone a day; he took the oral steroids Halotestin and Anabol; he combined them with Masteron and Parabolan; he used between four and 24 units of the growth hormone STH. Steroids aided muscle repair and general recovery; they allowed him to train with greater intensity. He combined different steroid types to maximum effect. He found that STH, the synthetic growth hormone, mimicked human growth hormone; it made everything grow - muscles, bones, organs, tissues. He ate 6-8,000 calories a day to nourish his muscles. He used insulin to stimulate his metabolism and churn the calories more quickly; he used at least five aspirin tablets each morning to thin his blood and help with the pain of training; he used ephedrine and Captagon to increase his intensity on the weights.
Fifteen weeks or so from competition, he would begin a rigorous diet designed to reduce his body fat. He would come down to 2,000 calories a day. In the days and hours before a show he used Aldactone and Lasix, both diuretics, to rid himself of the last of his water. Most pros would get close to competition shape once or twice a year. Anything else demanded too much; Andi maintained a reputation for always being in shape, or close to it.
The stomach pains had begun some months before Andi went to Columbus, Ohio, for the 1996 Arnold Classic. At first it was just more pain, and pain was the currency of muscle. Andi paid it little heed. It dug in and nestled down with all the other pain: the agonies of training, the banal deprivations of dieting down, the pulls, nicks, strains, jags and twists of the gym. But it kept coming back and its payload was different. A connoisseur of pain like Andi would soon have been able to tell. He would have been able to recognise it and rank it as something special in the pain game, something more exotic than the stuff he usually bore. He began to mention it to friends at the gym. He tried some health cures that would strengthen his stomach lining. Perhaps if Andi had quit training then, if he had turned away from the withering deprivations of another round of competition and stopped juicing he might have survived. Instead, the boy from Pack made himself ready to compete in front of the boy from Thal, in front of his hero.
After his sixth place at the Arnold Classic on 2 March 1996, Andi's mood remained low. 'Man, why don't you laugh?' a German official had said. 'You're the best white guy behind five Negroes.' Andi was never going to laugh at that. Best white guy. Best German speaker. All of the pain and deprivation, all of the gym seminars and pain-filled nights for those worthless epithets.
On the morning of 13 March, Andi's stomach pains became intense. His gut was swollen and hard. His bill had come in. He was fairly sure that this time he couldn't meet it. The debt was too big. The agony grew.
He was taken to hospital. Doctors there diagnosed the bleed, but could not prevent it continuing. He was transferred to the University Clinic. At 7pm, surgeons decided to operate to stop the bleeding inside Andi's stomach. Andi came through the operation, but his problems had multiplied catastrophically. His blood was viscous and slow-moving. His potassium levels were excessively high. He had been dehydrated by the diuretics he used in the days before his last competitions. His liver was melting. A post-mortem would find that it had dissolved almost completely. Andi's body went into shock. After his liver failed, his kidneys did too. He was offered a blood transfusion, but it was too late. Andi's heart held out for a while - he had always had a big heart - but by morning Munzer had joined the ranks of the bodybuilding dead.
Arnold Schwarzenegger sent a wreath from Hollywood to Andi's grave in Styria. The message was simple. It read: 'A last greeting to a friend.'
Great read!
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I have trained with a few Euro pros. I can steer offtopic and tell something about Dorian Yates, but I guess itīs quite known anyway, so maybe not that juicy.
When I lived in Amsterdam, Dorian worked out at the same gym as I. Back then (02-03) he was together with an Italian girl, and they were putting together "Dorian Yates Grand Prix" right after the Olympia. This girl of his seemed even more productive than him, as she was putting together a shitload of MMA competitions as well. I believe she was an owner of a company called "Canna" - that sells products for weed growing that was the main sponsor of those competitions as well. To top that of she owned a big commercial coffeeshop in the center namned the same.
They were together right up until the time Dorian got knocked out backstage at his own show. After that I never saw him in Amsterdam again. People said he got in moneytrouble and lost somebody alot of cash, so an MMA fighter called Dick Vrij was sent after him to beat him up, and did just so. Something real lame like a sucker punch from the back. Craig Titus was MC:ing this show, but mr Tough guy was nowhere to be seen when Dorian could have needed him.
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I remember seeing that first pic in Flex. Looked unreal, and still does.
McFarland, do you think he used insulin? LOL
Yes he did...at that time half of what many BB uses now..but i think you know that it was not the insulin that killed hem.
have you ever heard of rGE or DNP??
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wow is this offseason??
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Yes he did...at that time half of what many BB uses now..but i think you know that it was not the insulin that killed hem.
have you ever heard of rGHG or DNP??
I don't know what rGHG is What is it? :D
Yeah I'm sure he used insulin. I was being sarcastic in my query.
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what made his hair fall out
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what made his hair fall out
Excessive Dihydrotestosterone.
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sick quads in the last pic.
munzer always lacked some upper body mass tho (relatively speaking) specially thickness in the chest and shoulders.
he used to have pretty poor legs but brought em up real good.
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I don't know what rGHG is What is it? :D
Yeah I'm sure he used insulin. I was being sarcastic in my query.
RGE google it and you will find all the info.
comparing insulin with all the other stuff he was taking is nothing:
10-6 Weeks before the Competition daily:
2 injects Testoviron a 250 mg
1 inject Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
30 tabletts Metandienon
20 iu gh
20 iu Insulin
5-3 weeks before the Competition daily:
3 injects Masteron
2 injects Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
50 tabletts Stromba
2 injects Stromba
24 iu gh
unknown insulin
2-1 weeks before the Competition daily:
2 injects Masteron
2 injects Stromba
40 tabletts Halotestin
80 tabletts Stromba
24 iu gh
unknown Insulin
unknown IGF
A few days before the Competition: Aldactone, Lasix
he also ran Ephederine, AN 1, Captagon, Aspirine, Valium, Clenbuterol daily
all this shit was DAILY.he was also using a protein synthesis drug that thickened his blood and ultimately his liver literally disinegrated! go figure!
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jesus no wonder his hair fell out LOL
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rGHG=EPO google it and you will find all the info.
comparing insulin with all the other stuff he was taking is nothing:
10-6 Weeks before the Competition daily:
2 injects Testoviron a 250 mg
1 inject Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
30 tabletts Metandienon
20 iu gh
20 iu Insulin
5-3 weeks before the Competition daily:
3 injects Masteron
2 injects Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
50 tabletts Stromba
2 injects Stromba
24 iu gh
unknown insulin
2-1 weeks before the Competition daily:
2 injects Masteron
2 injects Stromba
40 tabletts Halotestin
80 tabletts Stromba
24 iu gh
unknown Insulin
unknown IGF
A few days before the Competition: Aldactone, Lasix
he also ran Ephederine, AN 1, Captagon, Aspirine, Valium, Clenbuterol daily
all this shit was DAILY.he was also using a protein synthesis drug that thickened his blood and ultimately his liver literally disinegrated! go figure!
he couldn't have been using IGF-1...no body builder had or has access to it.
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rGHG=EPO google it and you will find all the info.
I found nothing on google saying rGHG is EPO.
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he couldn't have been using IGF-1...no body builder had or has access to it.
What are you talking about? Gropep was operational even back then.
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What are you talking about? Gropep was operational even back then.
I'm talking about real IGF-1, the best stuff anyone can get...
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rGHG= growth hormone (produced in a lab)
rGHG is not EPO.
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rGHG= growth hormone (produced in a lab)
rGHG is not EPO.
Sorry i ment rGE
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rGHG= growth hormone (produced in a lab)
rGHG is not EPO.
rGHG= Recombinant human growth hormone
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I found nothing on google saying rGHG is EPO.
I have fixed that.search rh EPO,eposino,eprex,rGE and you will find it or just go to sdkexing website,you will find all the info there.
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he couldn't have been using IGF-1...no body builder had or has access to it.
Is that a joke?? don't tell me we are about to start the "i am so naive" debate all over again.
The real IGF-1?? what are you talking about do you even know whats IGF-1?
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Is that a joke?? don't tell me we are about to start the "i am so naive" debate all over again.
The real IGF-1?? what are you talking about do you even know whats IGF-1?
I hope he is kidding. MM2K wrote articles on it far far back, Lonnie even wrote about it. I remember reading about it from the aids doctor guy that wrote anti aging books he did an piece about it for MM2K
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;D (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=174085.0;attach=202107;image)
Sure, and Cutler's alive and Munzer's dead, so why are you insinuating that Cutler should be more like Munzer? ??? ::)
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I might be wrong, but I think Munzer may have been more ripped in the 93 NOC than in any other show of his career; it's kinda grainy but here he is in a back double bicep comparison with Porter Cottrell, also in super condition at the time...maybe his best showing as well. Porter got first, Munzer second in this show.
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I might be wrong, but I think Munzer may have been more ripped in the 93 NOC than in any other show of his career; it's kinda grainy but here he is in a back double bicep comparison with Porter Cottrell, also in super condition at the time...maybe his best showing as well. Porter got first, Munzer second in this show.
So ridiculously ripped. How the fuk did he do that? Oh wait, he died for us bitches...
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I have fixed that.search rh EPO,eposino,eprex,rGE and you will find it or just go to sdkexing website,you will find all the info there.
I know very well what it is. Just didn't know why you called it rGHG.
rGHG= Recombinant human growth hormone
Don't you mean rhGH? I don't know why you flip the letters.
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RGE google it and you will find all the info.
comparing insulin with all the other stuff he was taking is nothing:
10-6 Weeks before the Competition daily:
2 injects Testoviron a 250 mg
1 inject Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
30 tabletts Metandienon
20 iu gh
20 iu Insulin
5-3 weeks before the Competition daily:
3 injects Masteron
2 injects Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
50 tabletts Stromba
2 injects Stromba
24 iu gh
unknown insulin
2-1 weeks before the Competition daily:
2 injects Masteron
2 injects Stromba
40 tabletts Halotestin
80 tabletts Stromba
24 iu gh
unknown Insulin
unknown IGF
A few days before the Competition: Aldactone, Lasix
he also ran Ephederine, AN 1, Captagon, Aspirine, Valium, Clenbuterol daily
all this shit was DAILY.he was also using a protein synthesis drug that thickened his blood and ultimately his liver literally disinegrated! go figure!
.......and you believe this?
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.......and you believe this?
Do you think there is no way he could have taken those amounts? Plenty have done more than that. Add the total milligrams and you'll see.
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Do you think there is no way he could have taken those amounts? Plenty have done more than that. Add the total milligrams and you'll see.
The thing is, how does he manage to hold no water at all with all those drugs in his system. You would think he'd hold tons as a physiological response to the overload.
Yet, he's like 2% bf...WTF?
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Do you think there is no way he could have taken those amounts? Plenty have done more than that. Add the total milligrams and you'll see.
Dude, those are DAILY amounts, just the 30 tabs of Halotestin would liquify (exaggerating of course) his liver. No, there is no way I believe that.
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Dude, those are DAILY amounts, just the 30 tabs of Halotestin would liquify (exaggerating of course) his liver. No, there is no way I believe that.
20iu of GH a day, wouldn't that be expensive? :-\
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20iu of GH a day, wouldn't that be expensive? :-\
i bet he had some homo and/or sugar momma sponsor him.
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20iu of GH a day, wouldn't that be expensive? :-\
The whole freaking list would cost a fortune and GH was much more expensive back then than it is now (not that I would know :D)
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Was he Jewish?
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Was he Jewish?
you mean if uncle mendelweisz financed him?
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I read in Anabolic Insider that his Cycle was $6900 a month
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I know very well what it is. Just didn't know why you called it rGHG.Don't you mean rhGH? I don't know why you flip the letters.
Since i have fixed that i have no time go back all over again and explain it to you..
So please can you share with us your experience on IFG-1?
Thanks.
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I read in Anabolic Insider that his Cycle was $6900 a month
that's only like $250. a day
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.......and you believe this?
Hey Coach i was starting to wonder were ware you at...
Well rumors say it was hes wife that sent out those annotations i don't know if thats true or not but based on his condition i pretty much believe it and based on my BB experiences i believe it even more..but i bet your mind is to closed to understand that or maybe you just don't want to.
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The thing is, how does he manage to hold no water at all with all those drugs in his system. You would think he'd hold tons as a physiological response to the overload.
Yet, he's like 2% bf...WTF?
He didn't..he died remember....
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that's only like $250. a day
If that is $250 a day's worth of gear then one week would be $1750.
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Sure, and Cutler's alive and Munzer's dead, so why are you insinuating that Cutler should be more like Munzer? ??? ::)
Cuz I would rather have Munzer alive & on stage than Cutler
Hope this helps
::)
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Hey Coach i was starting to wonder were ware you at...
i pretty much believe it and based on my BB experiences i believe it even more..but i bet your mind is to closed to understand that or maybe you just don't want to.
1. Based on WHAT bodybuilding experiances?
2. Thats because you'll believe anything.
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RGE google it and you will find all the info.
comparing insulin with all the other stuff he was taking is nothing:
10-6 Weeks before the Competition daily:
2 injects Testoviron a 250 mg
1 inject Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
30 tabletts Metandienon
20 iu gh
20 iu Insulin
5-3 weeks before the Competition daily:
3 injects Masteron
2 injects Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
50 tabletts Stromba
2 injects Stromba
24 iu gh
unknown insulin
2-1 weeks before the Competition daily:
2 injects Masteron
2 injects Stromba
40 tabletts Halotestin
80 tabletts Stromba
24 iu gh
unknown Insulin
unknown IGF
A few days before the Competition: Aldactone, Lasix
he also ran Ephederine, AN 1, Captagon, Aspirine, Valium, Clenbuterol daily
all this shit was DAILY.he was also using a protein synthesis drug that thickened his blood and ultimately his liver literally disinegrated! go figure!
that was NOT his cycle of any kind. that was what Munzer's lawyers claimed was his cycle so he could get off on distribution charges for having enough gear in his home to fill a munich beerhall. it later become public record and reported in der spiegel
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Was he Jewish?
why? because if he was that would ruin your white-supremecist wet dream? this guy is such a fag.
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why? because if he was that would ruin your white-supremecist wet dream? this guy is such a fag.
I'm curious jackass. I'm sure you are a fag. ::)
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that was NOT his cycle of any kind. that was what Munzer's lawyers claimed was his cycle so he could get off on distribution charges for having enough gear in his home to fill a munich beerhall. it later become public record and reported in der spiegel
Don't know if thats true or not, but it's the most sense anyone has made on here about that kind of list!
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Look at him!!!!!! face it it was his cycle, something like it!!!! who else has even remotley came close to that kind of conditioning
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Look at him!!!!!! face it it was his cycle, something like it!!!! who else has even remotley came close to that kind of conditioning
He would have died long before he did with that cycle, remember, those were DAILY doses, not weekly.
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He would have died long before he did with that cycle, remember, those were DAILY doses, not weekly.
You could take that shit and live quite a while man, trust me.
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You could take that shit and live quite a while man, trust me.
At least till you were 32.
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At least till you were 32.
He was 31. So again, tell us why you can't believe he was doing that much. IMO he LOOKS LIKE that cycle. He died young but I have a huge amount of respect for the sheer singularity of purpose that he must have developed over the years to enable him to reach that level. The self-mastery it must have entailed. It may not have been conducive to longevity but it surely enabled him to be remembered and what he contributed to the world did alot to show us the current limitations of the human body. So what if he'd lived? He probably would've competed another 5-10 years, probably getting progressively worse as he went (could you see him getting better?), after which he may have ended up on Getbig to argue with trolls for another 15, doing his very best to undo any positive legacy he'd accumulated on the stage, then he very well may spent his "twilight years" holed up in some shithole in rural Europe eating some fucked up food raising goats til he died. Which was more tragic, you tell me. I don't get why everyone seems to think the purpose of life should be living as long as you can. So what, think of it as his having donated his body to science. Which he surely did. Munzer was as hardcore as they come and I've got nothing but respect for him.
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He was 31. So again, tell us why you can't believe he was doing that much. IMO he LOOKS LIKE that cycle. He died young but I have a huge amount of respect for the sheer singularity of purpose that he must have developed over the years to enable him to reach that level. The self-mastery it must have entailed. It may not have been conducive to longevity but it surely enabled him to be remembered and what he contributed to the world did alot to show us the current limitations of the human body. So what if he'd lived? He probably would've competed another 5-10 years, probably getting progressively worse as he went (could you see him getting better?), after which he may have ended up on Getbig to argue with trolls for another 15, doing his very best to undo any positive legacy he'd accumulated on the stage, then he very well may spent his "twilight years" holed up in some shithole in rural Europe eating some fucked up food raising goats til he died. Which was more tragic, you tell me. I don't get why everyone seems to think the purpose of life should be living as long as you can. So what, think of it as his having donated his body to science. Which he surely did. Munzer was as hardcore as they come and I've got nothing but respect for him.
Jeff, take a good hard look at this list and give me your honest reason on WHY he could have taken that much, I mean just the orals alone would do some damage and put his blood panel off the charts....in retrospect he could have taken that much, but why? That cycle doesn't make sense with the amout of gear that's on there. No doubt Muntzer was a great bodybuilder and you're right, the dude was as hardcore as they come, but in the end it cost him his life, from what I understand he died a horrible and very painful death, he might have died doing what he loved to do, but I seriously doubt he would have wanted it to end like that.
10-6 Weeks before the Competition daily:
2 injects Testoviron a 250 mg
1 inject Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
30 tabletts Metandienon
20 iu gh
20 iu Insulin
5-3 weeks before the Competition daily:
3 injects Masteron
2 injects Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
50 tabletts Stromba
2 injects Stromba
24 iu gh
unknown insulin
2-1 weeks before the Competition daily:
2 injects Masteron
2 injects Stromba
40 tabletts Halotestin
80 tabletts Stromba
24 iu gh
unknown Insulin
unknown IGF
A few days before the Competition: Aldactone, Lasix
he also ran Ephederine, AN 1, Captagon, Aspirine, Valium, Clenbuterol daily
all this shit was DAILY.he was also using a protein synthesis drug that thickened his blood and ultimately his liver literally disinegrated! go figure!
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Muenzer Offseason FIBO...
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I've seen guys do 300+ mg's of strong orals per day and live to compete. And do so for many years consecutively. And do a shitload more in injectables. These numbers are just out of your range of comprehension because you read somewhere that 100mg's of something is alot and haven't seen what some guys actually do. How do you know 100mg's is alot? Because Bill Phillips figured it was? What if you never read a WAR telling you that? You think your body could handle more if your mind were oblivious to what it's limits were supposed to be? Hey, just food for thought...cause I've seen some shit, and that's all I've been able to come up with to explain it. I don't advocate anyone doing anywhere near these amounts...but I am convinced there are NO RULES to this game.
It was probably just one of the more exotic chemicals he may have thrown in there coupled with maybe the cytadren that actually killed him, though, and had he took those out he probably could have kept going for a while longer, and perhaps even continued to improve. WTF is a "melted liver" anyway. I think the general understanding is that his liver disintegrated on the flight he took or something. Who knows what the hell caused that.
I understand that with his mentality SOMETHING was gonna get him sooner or later, but if you wanna get technical there's alot you could get away with in that stack, for a pretty good while longer than what he actually did.
Now let me just reiterate...if you do 300mg's of orals per day you're probably nuts, are significantly more prone to injury, and will probably stay in a world of hurt save the relief you might get from whatever accessory meds you're on to boost your tolerance...but it's been done. It's done all the time, I'm sure.
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He was 31. So again, tell us why you can't believe he was doing that much. IMO he LOOKS LIKE that cycle. He died young but I have a huge amount of respect for the sheer singularity of purpose that he must have developed over the years to enable him to reach that level. The self-mastery it must have entailed. It may not have been conducive to longevity but it surely enabled him to be remembered and what he contributed to the world did alot to show us the current limitations of the human body. So what if he'd lived? He probably would've competed another 5-10 years, probably getting progressively worse as he went (could you see him getting better?), after which he may have ended up on Getbig to argue with trolls for another 15, doing his very best to undo any positive legacy he'd accumulated on the stage, then he very well may spent his "twilight years" holed up in some shithole in rural Europe eating some fucked up food raising goats til he died. Which was more tragic, you tell me. I don't get why everyone seems to think the purpose of life should be living as long as you can. So what, think of it as his having donated his body to science. Which he surely did. Munzer was as hardcore as they come and I've got nothing but respect for him.
Good Post !
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Melt Down !
fixed.
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fixed.
Yes, you are correct sir. ;D
I've just about concluded now from reading here that anything typed over 3 lines to get a point across is most likely bullshit and can be immediately considered suspect meltdown. Case in point, I just tried justifying Munzer's "dying for us bitches" at age 31 and it took me 9 lines to fall miserably short of convincing.
Hey, I still like(d) the guy though. 8)
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I know a guy who takes about 800mg per day and has for years. Still alive and in good health so who the fuck knows?
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I know a guy who takes about 800mg per day and has for years. Still alive and in good health so who the fuck knows?
how is Kamali doing?
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how is Kamali doing?
;D ;D lol
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how is Kamali doing?
;D No this guy's is a top amateur and I'm guessing he's been on this amount for close to 10 years.
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1. Based on WHAT bodybuilding experiances?
2. Thats because you'll believe anything.
1.Based on the experience i got with my open mind,my researches and my capability of learning and to hear others
something that you are no capable of doing coz you're to hard head and you think you know it all when quite frankly Coach you know nothing.Thats why you call yourself a BB and look like that....
2.i don't know if this will help you or make any sense to you but here it goes.
I believe in that munzerīs cycle as much as i don't believe in many Pros that say they are all natural and don't do any kind of roids like Badel for example.
Do you also belive that?
Now if that doesn't make sense to you i don't know what else i can say to you.
Sh*t i remember now..hey coach thats was all genetics right???yeah right.......
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You could take that shit and live quite a while man, trust me.
Exactly.
The Coach, there have been many guys who've done 500mg of d-bol or drol daily for short periods of time without any ill effects. Look at Billy Mimnaugh who posts here, he does 200mg of d-bol before meets and says he knows guys who do 500mg the week before. I've seen it done myself. I know a dude who did drol for his first competition, he kept increasing the dosage until he was at 750mg of drol the last week. He was bat-shit crazy but he lived, and 10 years later he is still alive.
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It was probably just one of the more exotic chemicals he may have thrown in there coupled with maybe the cytadren that actually killed him, though, and had he took those out he probably could have kept going for a while longer, and perhaps even continued to improve. WTF is a "melted liver" anyway. I think the general understanding is that his liver disintegrated on the flight he took or something. Who knows what the hell caused that.
It might even have been the aspirin that gave him an ulcer and he bled to death, with the other drugs he was on reducing clotting etc. That would been an ironic twist if he died primarily due to aspirin.
Dorian had a bleeding ulcer that almost killed him before his last O. He blamed the aspirin. Who the hell knows though.
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Since i have fixed that i have no time go back all over again and explain it to you..
So please can you share with us your experience on IFG-1?
Thanks.
IGF-1 = doesn't do much.
What's your experience?
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IGF-1 = doesn't do much.
What's your experience?
Ok Van_Idontknowwhat now you showed what you understand about IGF-1....absolutly nothing...
Doesnt do much???????
Ok sence IGF-1 is no longer used i will help you to understand whats IGF-1 Long R3
Hereīs Daveīs Palumbo IGF article:
Article by Dave Palumbo concerning IGF
Take from it what you want.
(1)-STORAGE OF IGF-1(prior to mixing)
lyophilized (dry) IGF-1is stable at room temperture for three weeks;however,it should be stored below -18 degrees celsius (in the freezer section).
(2)WEIGHT OF IGF-1
1 milligram (mg) IGF-1 = 1,000 mcg (micrograms) IGF-1 (dry weight- before mixing).
(3) WHAT TO MIX THE IGF-1 WITH
when reconstituting,its important to remember IGF-1 can get "stuck" in the grooves of the glass bottle it comes packaged in. while glass appears smooth to the naked eye, under a microscope, it's a convoluted landscape of grooves and hidden recesses.
By mixing the lyophilized IGF-1 with an "acid water" (e.g., 10mM HCL -very dilute hydochloric acid), the IGF-1 molecules are efficiently detached from the glass and solubilized in the mixture. Any online "compounding" laboratory could mix up a 10mM HCL solution. likewise, any intro chemistry student should be able to do the same.
If a reliable source of "acid water" can't be located, mix your IGF-1 powder with BACTERIOSTATIC WATER - you'll lose, at worst, 10 percent of the IGF-1 solution.
(4) ADDING THE ACID WATER
For the purposes of mathematical ease, I suggest mixing the dry 1 milligram (1,000 microgram) IGF-1 with 3ml (or 3cc) of the "acid water" mixture.
(5) PRESERVATION OF THE IGF-1
Next,using a 1cc insulin syringe,draw out 1cc out of the bottle containing the 3cc acid water/IGF-1 mixture.In a seperate 1cc insulin syringe,draw up another 1cc of the solution.Freeze these two loaded insulin syringes.They will be utilized at a later date.
NOTE:Freezing can safely and effectively preserve IGF-1(even after its been mixed)
(6)THE CORRECT DILUTION
To the remaining 1cc of IGF-1 thats left in the glass bottle,add 2cc of bacteriostatic water.This will return the total volume back up to 3cc.
(7)THE MATHEMATICS
(A)The original concentration of the IGF-1 solution was 1mg(1000 micrograms)
IGF-1 in 3cc of water.
(B)Each 1cc that was removed,then,contained approximately 333 micrograms IGF-1 per 1cc.
1,000 micrograms/3cc = 333 micrograms per 1cc
ĐThe 1cc that was left in the bottle,then,also contains 333 micrograms of IGF-1.
(D)Next,we added 2cc of bacteriostatic water to the bottle and brought the volume back up to 3cc.The difference is we now have 333 micrograms in 3cc of water (instead of in 1cc)
(E)To determine how much IGF-1 is in 1cc,you must divide by three.
333 micrograms/3cc=111 micrograms per 1cc
(F)To determine how much IGF-1 is in .10cc (or 1/10thcc) we do the following.
111 micrograms/10=11micrograms per .10cc
(8)EFFICTIVE DOSAGES OF IGF-1
Dosages in the range of 10 to 20 micrograms per day(taken 10 to 15 minuters after training) are quite effective for building and repairing muscle tissue.
More importantly,these moderate dosages (by some peoples estimation)
stimulate muscle growth yet escape rapid "downregulation" of the all important IGF-1 receptors.
Without receptors to recognize the IGF-1,it doesnt matter how much you inject.
NOTHING will happen.
As dosages climb to over 50 micrograms per day,receptor downgrade increases exponentially and,from what I've observed among bodybuilders,muscle gains come to a screeching hault.
Bodybuilders will have the most sucess with IGF-1 if they follow the protocol I outlined below. REMEMBER, more isn't always better.
11 micrograms per day for 30 days (cycle 1) 333 micrograms
2 weeks OFF
11 micrograms per day for 30 days (cycle 2)** 333 micrograms
2 weeks OFF
11 micrograms per day for 30 days (cycle 3)** 333 micrograms
8 weeks OFF
** The second and third cycles of IGF-1 treatment require that the two Frozen 1cc insulin syringes be defrosted(only defrost one per cycle).
Next,inject the defrosted solution into an empty bottle.
Further dilute with 2cc bacteriostatic water. When adding the 2cc of water,use the syringe that originally held the frozen IGF-1.
This also helps to wash the syringe and ensure that no IGF-1 is stuck inside of it.
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He was 31. So again, tell us why you can't believe he was doing that much. IMO he LOOKS LIKE that cycle. He died young but I have a huge amount of respect for the sheer singularity of purpose that he must have developed over the years to enable him to reach that level. The self-mastery it must have entailed. It may not have been conducive to longevity but it surely enabled him to be remembered and what he contributed to the world did alot to show us the current limitations of the human body. So what if he'd lived? He probably would've competed another 5-10 years, probably getting progressively worse as he went (could you see him getting better?), after which he may have ended up on Getbig to argue with trolls for another 15, doing his very best to undo any positive legacy he'd accumulated on the stage, then he very well may spent his "twilight years" holed up in some shithole in rural Europe eating some fucked up food raising goats til he died. Which was more tragic, you tell me. I don't get why everyone seems to think the purpose of life should be living as long as you can. So what, think of it as his having donated his body to science. Which he surely did. Munzer was as hardcore as they come and I've got nothing but respect for him.
Are you saying GH15 will end up being a goat herder in Europe within the next ten years? ;D
You know what they say....a man can be an 8 time Mr.Olympia and herd one goat, but he's not known as a bodybuilder he's known as a goat fucker.....or something like that ;)
I'd love to hear his thoughts on Munzer....
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He was 31. So again, tell us why you can't believe he was doing that much. IMO he LOOKS LIKE that cycle. He died young but I have a huge amount of respect for the sheer singularity of purpose that he must have developed over the years to enable him to reach that level. The self-mastery it must have entailed. It may not have been conducive to longevity but it surely enabled him to be remembered and what he contributed to the world did alot to show us the current limitations of the human body. So what if he'd lived? He probably would've competed another 5-10 years, probably getting progressively worse as he went (could you see him getting better?), after which he may have ended up on Getbig to argue with trolls for another 15, doing his very best to undo any positive legacy he'd accumulated on the stage, then he very well may spent his "twilight years" holed up in some shithole in rural Europe eating some fucked up food raising goats til he died. Which was more tragic, you tell me. I don't get why everyone seems to think the purpose of life should be living as long as you can. So what, think of it as his having donated his body to science. Which he surely did. Munzer was as hardcore as they come and I've got nothing but respect for him.
total bullshit.
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Ok Van_Idontknowwhat now you showed what you understand about IGF-1....absolutly nothing...
Doesnt do much???????
Ok sence IGF-1 is no longer used i will help you to understand whats IGF-1 Long R3
Hereīs Daveīs Palumbo IGF article:
You are a fucking moron. First of all, Palumbo is a retard. Second, who cares what his article says, I asked about your experience with it. Have you done it? How much did you gain?
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Ok Van_Idontknowwhat now you showed what you understand about IGF-1....absolutly nothing...
Doesnt do much???????
Ok sence IGF-1 is no longer used i will help you to understand whats IGF-1 Long R3
Hereīs Daveīs Palumbo IGF article:
Article by Dave Palumbo concerning IGF
Take from it what you want.
(1)-STORAGE OF IGF-1(prior to mixing)
lyophilized (dry) IGF-1is stable at room temperture for three weeks;however,it should be stored below -18 degrees celsius (in the freezer section).
(2)WEIGHT OF IGF-1
1 milligram (mg) IGF-1 = 1,000 mcg (micrograms) IGF-1 (dry weight- before mixing).
(3) WHAT TO MIX THE IGF-1 WITH
when reconstituting,its important to remember IGF-1 can get "stuck" in the grooves of the glass bottle it comes packaged in. while glass appears smooth to the naked eye, under a microscope, it's a convoluted landscape of grooves and hidden recesses.
By mixing the lyophilized IGF-1 with an "acid water" (e.g., 10mM HCL -very dilute hydochloric acid), the IGF-1 molecules are efficiently detached from the glass and solubilized in the mixture. Any online "compounding" laboratory could mix up a 10mM HCL solution. likewise, any intro chemistry student should be able to do the same.
If a reliable source of "acid water" can't be located, mix your IGF-1 powder with BACTERIOSTATIC WATER - you'll lose, at worst, 10 percent of the IGF-1 solution.
(4) ADDING THE ACID WATER
For the purposes of mathematical ease, I suggest mixing the dry 1 milligram (1,000 microgram) IGF-1 with 3ml (or 3cc) of the "acid water" mixture.
(5) PRESERVATION OF THE IGF-1
Next,using a 1cc insulin syringe,draw out 1cc out of the bottle containing the 3cc acid water/IGF-1 mixture.In a seperate 1cc insulin syringe,draw up another 1cc of the solution.Freeze these two loaded insulin syringes.They will be utilized at a later date.
NOTE:Freezing can safely and effectively preserve IGF-1(even after its been mixed)
(6)THE CORRECT DILUTION
To the remaining 1cc of IGF-1 thats left in the glass bottle,add 2cc of bacteriostatic water.This will return the total volume back up to 3cc.
(7)THE MATHEMATICS
(A)The original concentration of the IGF-1 solution was 1mg(1000 micrograms)
IGF-1 in 3cc of water.
(B)Each 1cc that was removed,then,contained approximately 333 micrograms IGF-1 per 1cc.
1,000 micrograms/3cc = 333 micrograms per 1cc
ĐThe 1cc that was left in the bottle,then,also contains 333 micrograms of IGF-1.
(D)Next,we added 2cc of bacteriostatic water to the bottle and brought the volume back up to 3cc.The difference is we now have 333 micrograms in 3cc of water (instead of in 1cc)
(E)To determine how much IGF-1 is in 1cc,you must divide by three.
333 micrograms/3cc=111 micrograms per 1cc
(F)To determine how much IGF-1 is in .10cc (or 1/10thcc) we do the following.
111 micrograms/10=11micrograms per .10cc
(8)EFFICTIVE DOSAGES OF IGF-1
Dosages in the range of 10 to 20 micrograms per day(taken 10 to 15 minuters after training) are quite effective for building and repairing muscle tissue.
More importantly,these moderate dosages (by some peoples estimation)
stimulate muscle growth yet escape rapid "downregulation" of the all important IGF-1 receptors.
Without receptors to recognize the IGF-1,it doesnt matter how much you inject.
NOTHING will happen.
As dosages climb to over 50 micrograms per day,receptor downgrade increases exponentially and,from what I've observed among bodybuilders,muscle gains come to a screeching hault.
Bodybuilders will have the most sucess with IGF-1 if they follow the protocol I outlined below. REMEMBER, more isn't always better.
11 micrograms per day for 30 days (cycle 1) 333 micrograms
2 weeks OFF
11 micrograms per day for 30 days (cycle 2)** 333 micrograms
2 weeks OFF
11 micrograms per day for 30 days (cycle 3)** 333 micrograms
8 weeks OFF
** The second and third cycles of IGF-1 treatment require that the two Frozen 1cc insulin syringes be defrosted(only defrost one per cycle).
Next,inject the defrosted solution into an empty bottle.
Further dilute with 2cc bacteriostatic water. When adding the 2cc of water,use the syringe that originally held the frozen IGF-1.
This also helps to wash the syringe and ensure that no IGF-1 is stuck inside of it.
Nice cut and paste. Good to know you know everything and everyone else know's nothing. Go away!
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Exactly.
The Coach, there have been many guys who've done 500mg of d-bol or drol daily for short periods of time without any ill effects. Look at Billy Mimnaugh who posts here, he does 200mg of d-bol before meets and says he knows guys who do 500mg the week before. I've seen it done myself. I know a dude who did drol for his first competition, he kept increasing the dosage until he was at 750mg of drol the last week. He was bat-shit crazy but he lived, and 10 years later he is still alive.
Thats was for short periods of time (very short) and of course before a power meet I could see taking those doses, as a matter of fact I know of people that have taken up to 8-10 anadrols before a meet (hell look at Mendelson), but in this list Muntzer is on a ten week cycle taking up to 40 halo's per day along with 30 Stromba. And how many times did he compete in a year?
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Thats was for short periods of time (very short) and of course before a power meet I could see taking those doses, as a matter of fact I know of people that have taken up to 8-10 anadrols before a meet (hell look at Mendelson), but in this list Muntzer is on a ten week cycle taking up to 40 halo's per day along with 30 Stromba. And how many times did he compete in a year?
I may be mistaken but the Stromba could be 2mg and the Halo the same? That would be 140mg.
I mean, Anadrol is prescribed at up to 5mg/kg bodyweight and patients are on for years. There was a German Anadrol study where they were put on 150mg for 6 months and there was apparently no sign of liver stress in any of them.
So while what Munzer did was dangerous it wouldn't kill most very quickly. And he did die, so...
I'm saying it's possible he did that without dying immediately, but only he knew what he did.
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I may be mistaken but the Stromba could be 2mg and the Halo the same? That would be 140mg.
I mean, Anadrol is prescribed at up to 5mg/kg bodyweight and patients are on for years. There was a German Anadrol study where they were put on 150mg for 6 months and there was apparently no sign of liver stress in any of them.
So while what Munzer did was dangerous it wouldn't kill most very quickly. And he did die, so...
I'm saying it's possible he did that without dying immediately, but only he knew what he did.
van_bilderass is on home turf ;)
like a fish in a pond!
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I may be mistaken but the Stromba could be 2mg and the Halo the same? That would be 140mg.
I mean, Anadrol is prescribed at up to 5mg/kg bodyweight and patients are on for years. There was a German Anadrol study where they were put on 150mg for 6 months and there was apparently no sign of liver stress in any of them.
So while what Munzer did was dangerous it wouldn't kill most very quickly. And he did die, so...
I'm saying it's possible he did that without dying immediately, but only he knew what he did.
Yes, stromba is 2mg but I'm pretty sure that halo is 10mg. I'm not saying that's what killed him, I'm saying thats an astonomical amount of daily gear. Funny, I'm feel like I'm taking alot and according to some people, I'm taking practically nothing.
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Yes, stromba is 2mg but I'm pretty sure that halo is 10mg. I'm not saying that's what killed him, I'm saying thats an astonomical amount of daily gear. Funny, I'm feel like I'm taking alot and according to some people, I'm taking practically nothing.
Upjohn Halo is available in 2, 5 and 10mg strengths.
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Yes, stromba is 2mg but I'm pretty sure that halo is 10mg. I'm not saying that's what killed him, I'm saying thats an astonomical amount of daily gear. Funny, I'm feel like I'm taking alot and according to some people, I'm taking practically nothing.
Oh so that's what this is about. ;D
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Oh so that's what this is about. ;D
LOL....therapeutic amounts don't add up too much...LOL!
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Nice cut and paste. Good to know you know everything and everyone else know's nothing. Go away!
Hey you stupid f*ck read between the lines and you will see what i wrote..i told hem i was going to post an article,and there you can see "article by Dave palumbo" and after that if he was to stupid to understand it then i would try to explain it to hem but i am quite not sure if he will be able to understand has i have seen you also didn't.
Coach for somebody that claims to me a BB and knows it all i already seen you don't know sh*t about it so i figure thats why you also look like Sh*t.
I will explain to that retard how good is IGF-1 try to read it if you can its the least you can do since its to hard for you to understand.
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Arnold is a cold bastard, he couldnt say anything more than a last greeting to a friend. What about a great champion too or great athlete. That would have been nice.
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I will explain to that retard how good is IGF-1 try to read it if you can its the least you can do since its to hard for you to understand.
Please explain it to me. I'm all ears. Especially explain how 10mcg of it will work, like Palumbo says, when the body already produces 3,000mcg of it per day. Also I'm sure you also love to shoot acetic acid in your muscles, right?
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You are a fucking moron. First of all, Palumbo is a retard. Second, who cares what his article says, I asked about your experience with it. Have you done it? How much did you gain?
First of all you are
a monkeys anus not to call you a completely asshole second anybody with a few inches of grey mass and good will of learning something from an article no matter who wrote what will care about that third yes I did it.
So to make it as simplest as possible here it goes:
1. IGF1: (Insulin growth factor) is a peptide and very similar to a fast ester in half life.
2.its very good to combine IGF1 with GH and just a little bit insulin to prolong the half life up to 12 hours more.
3. IGF1 must be injected into the muscle, why? Coz only a small percentage of that peptide actually travels outside of the area administered
4. For me the best way to take IGF1 is 60 to 80mcgr a day spitted in the muscles I train that particular day either if biceps triceps chest shoulders backs and on and on
In a cycle of 4 weeks on 4 weeks off.
5. Do you know that IGF1 causes hyperplasia? If you figure that out you will understand why is so damm good to take IGF1
6.my advise to you is, try to inject IGF1 in those little chicken wings of yours that you call arms and you will se what will happened or just stick with deca and sustanon which will be much more easy for you to understand.
Acetic acid???Are your for real???
Did you know that More than 90% of the ethyl alcohol that enters the body is completely oxidized to acetic acid which occurs in the second step of ethanol metabolism which is catalyzed by acetaldehyde dehydrogenase an enzyme that converts acetaldehyde to acetic acid which is a normal metabolite in humans?
IGF-1 Long R3= size mass increase,body fat decrease high pumps on site injection.
If thats not clear to you then I cant help you.
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Few more thing about IGF1
Conversion of body fat to muscle mass
Growth of all tissues
Energy level
Tissue repair
Whole body healing
Cell replacement
Bone strength
Brain function
Sexual function
Organ health and integrity
Enzyme production
Integrity of hair, nails, skin and vital organs
Semas like 12 good reasons to take IGF1....
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First of all you are
a monkeys anus not to call you a completely asshole second anybody with a few inches of grey mass and good will of learning something from an article no matter who wrote what will care about that third yes I did it.
So to make it as simplest as possible here it goes:
1. IGF1: (Insulin growth factor) is a peptide and very similar to a fast ester in half life.
2.its very good to combine IGF1 with GH and just a little bit insulin to prolong the half life up to 12 hours more.
3. IGF1 must be injected into the muscle, why? Coz only a small percentage of that peptide actually travels outside of the area administered This is wrong; are you saying that muscle, which is highly vascular, will keep the peptide localized? Most of it will enter general circulation in a matter of seconds. There is no proof the igf-1 causes localized growth either. Never seen it on anyone who did it. Even your beloved Dave Palumbo thinks localized growth from igf-1 is bullshit!
4. For me the best way to take IGF1 is 60 to 80mcgr a day spitted in the muscles I train that particular day either if biceps triceps chest shoulders backs and on and on
In a cycle of 4 weeks on 4 weeks off.
5. Do you know that IGF1 causes hyperplasia? If you figure that out you will understand why is so damm good to take IGF1 There is no direct proof of this. Same is said of GH by the way. This is all conjecture.
6.my advise to you is, try to inject IGF1 in those little chicken wings of yours that you call arms and you will se what will happened or just stick with deca and sustanon which will be much more easy for you to understand.
Acetic acid???Are your for real???
Did you know that More than 90% of the ethyl alcohol that enters the body is completely oxidized to acetic acid which occurs in the second step of ethanol metabolism which is catalyzed by acetaldehyde dehydrogenase an enzyme that converts acetaldehyde to acetic acid which is a normal metabolite in humans?
IGF-1 Long R3= size mass increase,body fat decrease high pumps on site injection.
If thats not clear to you then I cant help you. Where are all the physiques built with this substance? Where are the before and after pics? This sounds good on paper but in the real world it hasn't quite delivered like that. BTW, you can inject saline and get "pumps" as well, doesn't mean you are growing muscle protein. Tons of "bros" on the boards have run large amounts of it but I haven't seen the amazing gains everyone talks about (usually the sellers of the stuff)
See above in bold. It may help a bit over time, like GH, but it's not the magical substance so many think it is. So, I'm asking you again, how much muscle beyond your previous best did you add with igf-1?
For me, what I noticed was perhaps a bit of leaning out. Maybe a bit more vascular as well. Pretty subtle, so hard to say for sure. Made me tired.
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Anyone here done igf-1? What were your experiences? Did you gain muscle? How much?
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Van_B couldnt be more correct. IMO IGF-1 is close to worthless. Id rather spend that money on food. I havent tried the pre bedtime use of it but as for the localized injects its not all that great. It does give a pump, but so does no explode lol. I didnt put inches on anything excpet water retention. For inches one must use ANABOLICS, not igf-1.
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i must add..... i do have an insulin using friend who swears by the stuff. So to each their own
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It was probably just one of the more exotic chemicals he may have thrown in there coupled with maybe the cytadren that actually killed him, though, and had he took those out he probably could have kept going for a while longer, and perhaps even continued to improve. WTF is a "melted liver" anyway. I think the general understanding is that his liver disintegrated on the flight he took or something. Who knows what the hell caused that.
cytadren prevents blood from clotting and munzer did from an internal hemorrage.
who knows what caused the hemorrage.
not only is the cycle he was taking hard to believe, but even getting that stuff seems to be an issue.
80 winny tabs a day for 2 weeks - that's over 1100 pills.
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See above in bold. It may help a bit over time, like GH, but it's not the magical substance so many think it is. So, I'm asking you again, how much muscle beyond your previous best did you add with igf-1?
For me, what I noticed was perhaps a bit of leaning out. Maybe a bit more vascular as well. Pretty subtle, so hard to say for sure. Made me tired.
Van_idontknowwhat why don't you hook up with SWOLETRAIN and and have a dam baby...
You're an asshole and He's retard so its literally impossible for me to communicate with both of you...
You guys don't have a clue of what you're talking about and i cant debate with people like you.
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Van_idontknowwhat why don't you hook up with SWOLETRAIN and and have a dam baby...
You're an asshole and He's retard so its literally impossible for me to communicate with both of you...
You guys don't have a clue of what you're talking about and i cant debate with people like you.
This coming from the cut and paste kid. When you can debate with a googling and answer then you can enter back into this thread!
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This coming from the cut and paste kid. When you can debate with a googling and answer then you can enter back into this thread!
Little Coach...i can come in and out of this thread wenever i want,i just wont replay to some people cause now i am starting to get real afraid of
getting less cultured,coz you people are like a decease...
So why don't do me a favor,come closer...bent over so that i can cut my foot and proceed to shove it directly up to your rectum...
Is that to technical to you or just some more regular cut and paste...
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Just to finish:
I HAVE FORGOTEN MORE ABOUT STEROIS AND HORMONES THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW SON...
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I love these dopes that compare Munzer to Cutler - 1st off.....be fair and compare Munzer to EVERYONE on stage last week and you'll see the same shit - that includes Martinez, Dex, and yes even Wolf..... 2nd....what Munzer did was just plain STUPID and paid for it with his life - what did they say?? That he had enough shit in his system to melt the livers of a dozen bodybuilders?? No sport (or hobby, for that matter) is worth dying for.
Better to look smooth and live.....
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I love these dopes that compare Munzer to Cutler - 1st off.....be fair and compare Munzer to EVERYONE on stage last week and you'll see the same shit - that includes Martinez, Dex, and yes even Wolf..... 2nd....what Munzer did was just plain STUPID and paid for it with his life - what did they say?? That he had enough shit in his system to melt the livers of a dozen bodybuilders?? No sport (or hobby, for that matter) is worth dying for.
Better to look smooth and live.....
Munzer > Cutler
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Just to finish:
I HAVE FORGOTEN MORE ABOUT STEROIS AND HORMONES THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW SON...
My God, you really have to quit before you make an even bigger idiot of yourself.....before you come off some sort of "guru" learn to spell!
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Munzer > Cutler
Munzer = Never was Mr.Olympia and died trying
Cutler = alive, rich and 2 time Mr. Olympia.....
Anything else, guru?
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Munzer = Never was Mr.Olympia and died trying
Cutler = alive, rich and 2 time Mr. Olympia.....
Anything else, guru?
Cutler = Fixed show. Cutler wouldn't have even been able to stand next to Muntzer let alone beat him!
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I love these dopes that compare Munzer to Cutler - 1st off.....be fair and compare Munzer to EVERYONE on stage last week and you'll see the same shit - that includes Martinez, Dex, and yes even Wolf..... 2nd....what Munzer did was just plain STUPID and paid for it with his life - what did they say?? That he had enough shit in his system to melt the livers of a dozen bodybuilders?? No sport (or hobby, for that matter) is worth dying for.
Better to look smooth and live.....
Effects of HMB.
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Anyone here done igf-1? What were your experiences? Did you gain muscle? How much?
I gotta admit I have not read this whole thread by any means. This question just caught my eye. The only thing that I and many others have truthfully clamed is some fat loss. So many guys have told me that they have site injected and had that muscle grow. Sorry, but they are delusional. Doesn't work well at all for muscle growth whether site injected or not. Not as good as ECA stack for fat loss.
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I gotta admit I have not read this whole thread by any means. This question just caught my eye. The only thing that I and many others have truthfully clamed is some fat loss. So many guys have told me that they have site injected and had that muscle grow. Sorry, but they are delusional. Doesn't work well at all for muscle growth whether site injected or not. Not as good as ECA stack for fat loss.
Hey, that's exactly what I noticed as well. Fat loss, that's pretty much it.
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Van_idontknowwhat why don't you hook up with SWOLETRAIN and and have a dam baby...
You're an asshole and He's retard so its literally impossible for me to communicate with both of you...
You guys don't have a clue of what you're talking about and i cant debate with people like you.
Look, I'm still interested in hearing how much you gained from it. Let's forget the theoretical benefits. Disgusted and myself noticed fat loss mainly.
Frank, FYI Disgusted has worked with pros and top amateurs and has tons of experience. He has no reason to lie here. He always keeps it real.
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I gotta admit I have not read this whole thread by any means. This question just caught my eye. The only thing that I and many others have truthfully clamed is some fat loss. So many guys have told me that they have site injected and had that muscle grow. Sorry, but they are delusional. Doesn't work well at all for muscle growth whether site injected or not. Not as good as ECA stack for fat loss.
Hey disgusted which brand did you made and how did you took it?
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that was NOT his cycle of any kind. that was what Munzer's lawyers claimed was his cycle so he could get off on distribution charges for having enough gear in his home to fill a munich beerhall. it later become public record and reported in der spiegel
completely right!
but nobody wants to hear that, the story with the incredible amounts in his body is obviously a better one...
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completely right!
but nobody wants to hear that, the story with the incredible amounts in his body is obviously a better one...
Maybe you're right but are you saying Munzer really used low amounts of drugs and didn't abuse them? Why did he die in your opinion?
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LOL....therapeutic amounts don't add up too much...LOL!
Dude, those are DAILY amounts, just the 30 tabs of Halotestin would liquify (exaggerating of course) his liver. No, there is no way I believe that.
Jeff, take a good hard look at this list and give me your honest reason on WHY he could have taken that much, I mean just the orals alone would do some damage and put his blood panel off the charts....in retrospect he could have taken that much, but why? That cycle doesn't make sense with the amout of gear that's on there. No doubt Muntzer was a great bodybuilder and you're right, the dude was as hardcore as they come, but in the end it cost him his life, from what I understand he died a horrible and very painful death, he might have died doing what he loved to do, but I seriously doubt he would have wanted it to end like that.
Yes, stromba is 2mg but I'm pretty sure that halo is 10mg. I'm not saying that's what killed him, I'm saying thats an astonomical amount of daily gear. Funny, I'm feel like I'm taking alot and according to some people, I'm taking practically nothing.
This coming from the cut and paste kid. When you can debate with a googling and answer then you can enter back into this thread!
That was only In this thread Coach and i presume you're American,but i am not American and my country first language isn't English so i think that i learned it pretty much OK and has I learned it watching American movies and barely studied it i think that its even better but i guess that was the best you had to say (for sure)
so once again Coach I HAVE FORGOT MORE ABOUT STEROIDS AND HORMONES THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW...is that OK with you now.
so to finish i will tell you a little history,see if you can find any spell errors:
Mary had a little lamb...... so piss on the lamb, piss on Mary, and piss on you! now shut your mouth b*tch.
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cytadren prevents blood from clotting and munzer did from an internal hemorrage.
who knows what caused the hemorrage.
He had a family history of stomach ulcers and did die from complications that arose from a burst stomach ulcer. That started some days before he went to a hospital and then it was already too late - the doctors could stop the bleeding from that one as Munzer was on big amounts of Cytadren and other stuff and he already had lost massive amounts of blood at this point in time and his remaining blood could hardly considered to be liquid anymore at that point.
A common thing in such cases is multiple organ failure which is exactly what happened with Munzer.
BTW: At the autopsy his liver and other organs were not exactly found to be in tip-top shape either - big surprise but still he died from complications of internal bleeding that could not be stopped due to him being to late to the hospital and his abuse of Cytadren and other stuff.
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so to finish i will tell you a little history,see if you can find any spell errors:
Mary had a little lamb...... so piss on the lamb, piss on Mary, and piss on you! now shut your mouth b*tch.
DAMN ! :o
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Mary had a little lamb...... so piss on the lamb, piss on Mary, and piss on you! now shut your mouth b*tch.
hahahahaahaha
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Maybe you're right but are you saying Munzer really used low amounts of drugs and didn't abuse them? Why did he die in your opinion?
i'm NOT saying he used low amounts - i'm only saying he absolutely had not used these mindblowing amounts. muenzer was an awesome guy and i hate it when people who will never put as much energy in something of their life as muenzer put in one of his diets bash him.
why? i think, if you look at his crazy dry look outside, inside there's no big difference. no water at all, less plasma, agglutination, fucked viscera...only speculations...
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Look, I'm still interested in hearing how much you gained from it. Let's forget the theoretical benefits. Disgusted and myself noticed fat loss mainly.
Frank, FYI Disgusted has worked with pros and top amateurs and has tons of experience. He has no reason to lie here. He always keeps it real.
OK i will ask you something here and its very important...
how old are you? 15.....16.....
So FYI Disgusted is the only one in the world talking with pros ans amateurs???
well break up news for you little fellow he is not,and the fact that he talks with them you talk or even me doesn't mean sh*t
Some train the every muscle twice a week and say thats the best while some train them once a week and say thats the correct way.
Not all the pros have the same philosophy conduct and on an on...
i know many that say maximum they do of testosterone is 750mg and others say they do 5gr and 750mg for them...no way thats what they do when the are on PCT and you even have those ho claim they are all natural...
So to hell with that coz it doesn't mean sh*t.
Maybe next time you should ask me if i have ever worked with pros or not before you come with that kind of sh*t,so know your role and shut your mouth.
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Munzer > Cutler
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OK i will ask you something here and its very important...
how old are you? 15.....16.....
So FYI Disgusted is the only one in the world talking with pros ans amateurs???
well break up news for you little fellow he is not,and the fact that he talks with them you talk or even me doesn't mean sh*t
Some train the every muscle twice a week and say thats the best while some train them once a week and say thats the correct way.
Not all the pros have the same philosophy conduct and on an on...
i know many that say maximum they do of testosterone is 750mg and others say they do 5gr and 750mg for them...no way thats what they do when the are on PCT and you even have those ho claim they are all natural...
So to hell with that coz it doesn't mean sh*t.
Maybe next time you should ask me if i have ever worked with pros or not before you come with that kind of sh*t,so know your role and shut your mouth.
You know what Frank, I seriously don't think you understand BBing and the "suppliments that go along with it at all. You seem to think that you or anyone else needs all these exotic drugs and dosages to win or place high, I'm here to tell you and I'll guaranty it, that the old stand by basics will works just fine, your so caught up in the drug hype, you seriously don't know any better.
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Munzer still bodybuilds beyond the graves
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Munzer still bodybuilds beyond the graves
it's funny that you say that . . . I have a buddy in Austria who says that at Munzer's gym, you can hear the plates clanging in the empty gym every night.
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it's funny that you say that . . . I have a buddy in Austria who says that at Munzer's gym, you can hear the plates clanging in the empty gym every night.
shit...that would scare my ass out straight up. ;D
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it's funny that you say that . . . I have a buddy in Austria who says that at Munzer's gym, you can hear the plates clanging in the empty gym every night.
That's awesome.
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Jeff, take a good hard look at this list and give me your honest reason on WHY he could have taken that much, I mean just the orals alone would do some damage and put his blood panel off the charts....in retrospect he could have taken that much, but why? That cycle doesn't make sense with the amout of gear that's on there. No doubt Muntzer was a great bodybuilder and you're right, the dude was as hardcore as they come, but in the end it cost him his life, from what I understand he died a horrible and very painful death, he might have died doing what he loved to do, but I seriously doubt he would have wanted it to end like that.
10-6 Weeks before the Competition daily:
2 injects Testoviron a 250 mg
1 inject Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
30 tabletts Metandienon
20 iu gh
20 iu Insulin
5-3 weeks before the Competition daily:
3 injects Masteron
2 injects Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
50 tabletts Stromba
2 injects Stromba
24 iu gh
unknown insulin
2-1 weeks before the Competition daily:
2 injects Masteron
2 injects Stromba
40 tabletts Halotestin
80 tabletts Stromba
24 iu gh
unknown Insulin
unknown IGF
A few days before the Competition: Aldactone, Lasix
he also ran Ephederine, AN 1, Captagon, Aspirine, Valium, Clenbuterol daily
all this shit was DAILY.he was also using a protein synthesis drug that thickened his blood and ultimately his liver literally disinegrated! go figure!
ur a moron for thinking he really took that much. how much money did this guy have? LMFAO.. 24 i u of gh a day my asshole. even if he was the biggest drug dealer in the world no way could he afford cycles like this he would have to save up like a mother for this. and no he doesnt get it for free.
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Hey disgusted which brand did you made and how did you took it?
Don't remember to be honest, but I have zero doubts it was not real if that is what you are asking.
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ur a moron for thinking he really took that much. how much money did this guy have? LMFAO.. 24 i u of gh a day my asshole. even if he was the biggest drug dealer in the world no way could he afford cycles like this he would have to save up like a mother for this. and no he doesnt get it for free.
Some pros do 18 iu's daily, of course it is cheaper now than it used to be and soon to go up again. ;D PS IMO 6 to 8 is plenty and probabley too much.
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Some pros do 18 iu's daily, of course it is cheaper now than it used to be and soon to go up again. ;D PS IMO 6 to 8 is plenty and probabley too much.
Judging by the lack of agromegalic sides seen in his physique, I don't think he actually did 24iu's of gh a day...but even if he did, his gh dosage probably had very little to do with his premature death. The other stuff I could definitely see, though. You just don't get that big and that ripped on relatively low dosages (i.e., I don't know, under 2 grams or so?). He might not do a vial and a half of growth a day but I don't know why anyone would look at him and argue that he used less than anyone else either...
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ur a moron for thinking he really took that much. how much money did this guy have? LMFAO.. 24 i u of gh a day my asshole. even if he was the biggest drug dealer in the world no way could he afford cycles like this he would have to save up like a mother for this. and no he doesnt get it for free.
I didn't say he took that much!
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ur a moron for thinking he really took that much. how much money did this guy have? LMFAO.. 24 i u of gh a day my asshole. even if he was the biggest drug dealer in the world no way could he afford cycles like this he would have to save up like a mother for this. and no he doesnt get it for free.
You are underestimating the resourcefulness of a pro or even amateur, to whom getting better means EVERYTHING. If there is a will there's a way. If you travel in bb circles long enough you'll know what I mean.
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OK i will ask you something here and its very important...
how old are you? 15.....16.....
So FYI Disgusted is the only one in the world talking with pros ans amateurs???
well break up news for you little fellow he is not,and the fact that he talks with them you talk or even me doesn't mean sh*t
Some train the every muscle twice a week and say thats the best while some train them once a week and say thats the correct way.
Not all the pros have the same philosophy conduct and on an on...
i know many that say maximum they do of testosterone is 750mg and others say they do 5gr and 750mg for them...no way thats what they do when the are on PCT and you even have those ho claim they are all natural...
So to hell with that coz it doesn't mean sh*t.
Maybe next time you should ask me if i have ever worked with pros or not before you come with that kind of sh*t,so know your role and shut your mouth.
You are a retard, plain and simple. Regardless of knowing this, I asked about your personal experiences. Which you have a big problem doing.
So, which pros do you "work" with?
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You are underestimating the resourcefulness of a pro or even amateur, to whom getting better means EVERYTHING. If there is a will there's a way. If you travel in bb circles long enough you'll know what I mean.
LOL. Same thing Joe Deangelis used to say. "Bodybuilders find a way...you know how in Jurassic Park, Jeff Goldblum says, 'Life finds a way?' Well, Bodybuilders find a way," he'd always say. Ha ha.
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how's this for triceps, beotchessssssssss!!!
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how's this for triceps, beotchessssssssss!!!
Good find, bro. Still doesn't make up for your saying Levrone was narrow, though. ;D
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Got to love, Mentzer !
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how's this for triceps, beotchessssssssss!!!
GREAT PIC SQUAD.
MENTZER WAS AWESOME. WISH HE WAS STILL ALIVE. HE HAS SO MUCH TO OFFER BODYBUILDING.
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Good find, bro. Still doesn't make up for your saying Levrone was narrow, though. ;D
yeah good find ;)
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My God, you really have to quit before you make an even bigger idiot of yourself.....before you come off some sort of "guru" learn to spell!
another profound pot n' kettle moment ::)
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another profound pot n' kettle moment ::)
coach is a confirmed idiot. very narrowminded guy...exactly the type of person the bush administration manipulates.
:-*
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GREAT PIC SQUAD.
MENTZER WAS AWESOME. WISH HE WAS STILL ALIVE. HE HAS SO MUCH TO OFFER BODYBUILDING.
He offered fvck all, if anytihng he was a rambling idiot who thought he figured out training using logic and philosophy ::) Gayer than will harris and matt t combined.
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He offered fvck all, if anytihng he was a rambling idiot who thought he figured out training using logic and philosophy ::) Gayer than will harris and matt t combined.
you sound like a scorned ex HIT fanatic :D
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you sound like a scorned ex HIT fanatic :D
Nah, thank God no, hellllzz noo. Just my opinion on a retard who's given credibility in the bodybuilding community but would be a laughing stock in the scientific one.
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Nah, thank God no, hellllzz noo. Just my opinion on a retard who's given credibility in the bodybuilding community but would be a laughing stock in the scientific one.
ohh i agree, alot of what mentzer was bullshit, full of incorrect analogies and in general a bunch of philosophical rubbish. (ayn rand ::) )
but he did some good things too...he questioned the weider bullshit etc and created a discussion about training...
but he was an extremist in many ways
often the truth is somewhere in the middle.
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ohh i agree, alot of what mentzer was bullshit, full of incorrect analogies and in general a bunch of philosophical rubbish. (ayn rand ::) )
but he did some good things too...he questioned the weider bullshit etc and created a discussion about training...
but he was an extremist in many ways
often the truth is somewhere in the middle.
EXACTLY, I could say you're fuckin gay but i can settle on just a little fruity.
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EXACTLY, I could say you're fuckin gay but i can settle on just a little fruity.
and i could say you're obese but i can settle on just a little pudgy.
:)
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and i could say you're obese but i can settle on just a little pudgy.
:)
meltdown
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hahaha, someone needs to diet
and that someone isnt ripped me.
:D
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hahaha, someone needs to diet
and that someone isnt ripped me.
:D
settle down gay man, I was only kidding :D
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settle down gay man, I was only kidding :D
calm down rosie, its only the internet. ;)
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You know what Frank, I seriously don't think you understand BBing and the "suppliments that go along with it at all. You seem to think that you or anyone else needs all these exotic drugs and dosages to win or place high, I'm here to tell you and I'll guaranty it, that the old stand by basics will works just fine, your so caught up in the drug hype, you seriously don't know any better.
You don't know shit about me little coach and i do know you are not on steroids thats why you look like crap and absolutely suck,
indeed you're the biggest piece of monkey crap that ever graced god's green earth.
but i will tell you what next year i will do the nationals in my country and then the next year i will start competing in high stages i will try to go and compete in the US so that you can drag your hamburgular ass up to the stage and then you will see who gets it.
why don't you call king Ronnie and tell hem if he did not have taken steroids we would had won this year Olympia or better go tell hem that he was
8 times Mr. Olympia but he did a huge mistake...he took steroids
or even better why just don't you STFU and get real or get lost.
You don't know sh*t about me you punk ass B*tch.
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You don't know shit about me little coach and i do know you are not on steroids thats why you look like crap and absolutely suck,
indeed you're the biggest piece of monkey crap that ever graced god's green earth.
but i will tell you what next year i will do the nationals in my country and then the next year i will start competing in high stages i will try to go and compete in the US so that you can drag your hamburgular ass up to the stage and then you will see who gets it.
why don't you call king Ronnie and tell hem if he did not have taken steroids we would had won this year Olympia or better go tell hem that he was
8 times Mr. Olympia but he did a huge mistake...he took steroids
or even better why just don't you STFU and get real or get lost.
You don't know sh*t about me you punk ass B*tch.
Total and complete meltdown. Munzer like liver melting stress!
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You don't know shit about me little coach and i do know you are not on steroids thats why you look like crap and absolutely suck,
indeed you're the biggest piece of monkey crap that ever graced god's green earth.
but i will tell you what next year i will do the nationals in my country and then the next year i will start competing in high stages i will try to go and compete in the US so that you can drag your hamburgular ass up to the stage and then you will see who gets it.
why don't you call king Ronnie and tell hem if he did not have taken steroids we would had won this year Olympia or better go tell hem that he was
8 times Mr. Olympia but he did a huge mistake...he took steroids
or even better why just don't you STFU and get real or get lost.
You don't know sh*t about me you punk ass B*tch.
MMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEELLLLLTTDDOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWN!!!!!!!!!
(http://facemelt.us/facemelt.gif)
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You don't know shit about me little coach and i do know you are not on steroids thats why you look like crap and absolutely suck,
indeed you're the biggest piece of monkey crap that ever graced god's green earth.
but i will tell you what next year i will do the nationals in my country and then the next year i will start competing in high stages i will try to go and compete in the US so that you can drag your hamburgular ass up to the stage and then you will see who gets it.
why don't you call king Ronnie and tell hem if he did not have taken steroids we would had won this year Olympia or better go tell hem that he was
8 times Mr. Olympia but he did a huge mistake...he took steroids
or even better why just don't you STFU and get real or get lost.
You don't know sh*t about me you punk ass B*tch.
I'm not a fan of "The Coach" but looking at your pics in the other thread he absolutely destroys you in every way, physique-wise. Don't make claims before you step on stage. You are 110kg at 1.89cm which means, looking at the pics, WELL below 90kg in contest shape. That's not much at your height.
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You are a retard, plain and simple. Regardless of knowing this, I asked about your personal experiences. Which you have a big problem doing.
So, which pros do you "work" with?
Let me tell you one thing you 5ft,100pd of moneky crap...
i already told you the benefits and whats it does to your body.i think you are an handicap so as you cant understand word take some pictures
they have ONE AND A HALF YEAR break...
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mentzer had a great physique only thing that I notice that sticks out is his delts.
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I'm not a fan of "The Coach" but looking at your pics in the other thread he absolutely destroys you in every way, physique-wise. Don't make claims before you step on stage. You are 110kg at 1.89cm which means, looking at the pics, WELL below 90kg in contest shape. That's not much at your height.
Then open your eyes coz is also written there..i am 1.89 110 kg and just started my off season bulking.
i wont to go up to 130kg 135kg and then compete has heavy as i can..
Yeah i am sure that what you saw seams like you know hem from the back way to good...
i wounder why.....
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Total and complete meltdown. Munzer like liver melting stress!
let me make some perfectly clear to you this between me and coach have nothing to do with Munzer or his cycle.
I post that cycle has a rumor that came out i don't know if its true or not and also i don't care..
And i am not apologist of high doses or overdoses...everything controlled at the right level.
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And i never liked Munzerīs phisic...
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No worries..... FrankT's a little meltdown homo like Derek Anthony. Hey Frank,...... You and Derek shoud go have a baby....you homo! Lookin smooth there sweetie, might wanna back off a couple iu's :-*
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Then open your eyes coz is also written there..i am 1.89 110 kg and just started my off season bulking.
i wont to go up to 130kg 135kg and then compete has heavy as i can..
Yeah i am sure that what you saw seams like you know hem from the back way to good...
i wounder why.....
Look, really, good luck with that. Just be realistic. Don't think you can put on 25kg of muscle until January. It doesn't work like that, regardless of what drugs you take.
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Let me tell you one thing you 5ft,100pd of moneky crap...
i already told you the benefits and whats it does to your body.i think you are an handicap so as you cant understand word take some pictures
they have ONE AND A HALF YEAR break...
Ok, here's some questions: what other drugs were you on, besides the igf-1? How can you tell what the igf-1 did? The best way to assess a "wonder substance" like this is take bodybuilder who has been stable at a bodyweight for a long time, and already 'maxed out' from his steroid stack. Then you can really tell if the igf-1 did anything.
You on the other hand look like you were malnourished and then went on a test and deca cycle and put on a lot of bloat (along with real muscle of course). So again, how much would you attribute to the igf-1?
I've seen a lot of experienced competitors use it and it doesn't seem to do much. Kind of like growth hormone, except less bloat.
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So again, how much would you attribute to the igf-1?
I've seen a lot of experienced competitors use it and it doesn't seem to do much. Kind of like growth hormone, except less bloat.
exactly, its the least to be worried about, close to not necessary for tremendous gains, and responsible for palumboism
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Look, really, good luck with that. Just be realistic. Don't think you can put on 25kg of muscle until January. It doesn't work like that, regardless of what drugs you take.
I understand thats somethig impossible to someonelike you..so in january you will see it...
AND ITS NOT ALL ABOUT THE DRUGS JUST SO YOU CAN HAVE AN IDEA I AM SPENDING 500 MONTH ONLY IN MEET,IF THAT SAYS ANYTHING TO YOU.
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No worries..... FrankT's a little meltdown homo like Derek Anthony. Hey Frank,...... You and Derek shoud go have a baby....you homo! Lookin smooth there sweetie, might wanna back off a couple iu's :-*
dip sh*t what do you think about this...its at the end of the cycle...
So why dont you STFU..
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I've seen a lot of experienced competitors use it and it doesn't seem to do much. Kind of like growth hormone, except less bloat.
Tell that to hem he is the number 1 fan of IGF-1...
(despite of how he look) thereīs nothing you can do about genetics.....
About my cycle what i did and how its something that i can debate with someone like you kid sorry..
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haha whats on your nipple bro? so thats all igf huh?
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haha whats on your nipple bro? so thats all igf huh?
hahahah no you retard that a piercing....
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Tell that to hem he is the number 1 fan of IGF-1...
(despite of how he look) thereīs nothing you can do about genetics.....
About my cycle what i did and how its something that i can debate with someone like you kid sorry..
Let me guess, he also sold the igf-1 to you.
As for you, you could maybe do one of those NABBA male fitness division shows after a couple more cycles. You will not be winning any national bb show next year.
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hahahah no you retard that a piercing....
It's conclusive. Frank.T is teh ghey.
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I've seen a lot of experienced competitors use it and it doesn't seem to do much. Kind of like growth hormone, except less bloat.
Do you think that i am stupid to come out here and say i got all that on IGF-1 which of course i didn't....IGF played a roll on that which i already explain to you and you couldn't understand so sorry like i told you before cant debate with you those thins cause your living on Alice's paradise.
Gustavo badel says he is all natural do you also believe that?
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It's conclusive. Frank.T is teh ghey.
agreed
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hahahah no you retard that a piercing....
You disgust me.
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It's conclusive. Frank.T is teh ghey.
Send your Mom over so that she can go back home and tell you how ghey i am....
Is there anything wrong with the piercing???
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send your dad over so you can whip him with your cool belt
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Let me guess, he also sold the igf-1 to you.
As for you, you could maybe do one of those NABBA male fitness division shows after a couple more cycles. You will not be winning any national bb show next year.
HAHAHAHAH no asshole,and thats very bad of you,speaking like that about somebody that is not here to defend himself.
are you calling hem a dealer or something?
he didn't sold nothing to me but i will tell you what don't argue with me anymore about this cause you're a moron
i will tell you what next year i will go to the national i will WIN IT and then i will send you pictures of something you probably will never be able to do.
is that what is bothering you?
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You disgust me.
Is there something???
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Munzer still bodybuilds beyond the graves
He communicates with us via GH15
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pierced nipple = fag :-X
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Munzer > Cutler
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He communicates with us via GH15
lol