Munzer's Tricep Here... (AKA "Munzer Died For Us Bitches")

[The Coach]

You could take that shit and live quite a while man, trust me.   

At least till you were 32.

[McFarland]

At least till you were 32.

He was 31.  So again, tell us why you can't believe he was doing that much.  IMO he LOOKS LIKE that cycle.  He died young but I have a huge amount of respect for the sheer singularity of purpose that he must have developed over the years to enable him to reach that level.  The self-mastery it must have entailed.  It may not have been conducive to longevity but it surely enabled him to be remembered and what he contributed to the world did alot to show us the current limitations of the human body.  So what if he'd lived?  He probably would've competed another 5-10 years, probably getting progressively worse as he went (could you see him getting better?), after which he may have ended up on Getbig to argue with trolls for another 15, doing his very best to undo any positive legacy he'd accumulated on the stage, then he very well may spent his "twilight years" holed up in some shithole in rural Europe eating some fucked up food raising goats til he died.  Which was more tragic, you tell me.  I don't get why everyone seems to think the purpose of life should be living as long as you can.  So what, think of it as his having donated his body to science.  Which he surely did.  Munzer was as hardcore as they come and I've got nothing but respect for him.   

[The Coach]

He was 31.  So again, tell us why you can't believe he was doing that much.  IMO he LOOKS LIKE that cycle.  He died young but I have a huge amount of respect for the sheer singularity of purpose that he must have developed over the years to enable him to reach that level.  The self-mastery it must have entailed.  It may not have been conducive to longevity but it surely enabled him to be remembered and what he contributed to the world did alot to show us the current limitations of the human body.  So what if he'd lived?  He probably would've competed another 5-10 years, probably getting progressively worse as he went (could you see him getting better?), after which he may have ended up on Getbig to argue with trolls for another 15, doing his very best to undo any positive legacy he'd accumulated on the stage, then he very well may spent his "twilight years" holed up in some shithole in rural Europe eating some fucked up food raising goats til he died.  Which was more tragic, you tell me.  I don't get why everyone seems to think the purpose of life should be living as long as you can.  So what, think of it as his having donated his body to science.  Which he surely did.  Munzer was as hardcore as they come and I've got nothing but respect for him.   

Jeff, take a good hard look at this list and give me your honest reason on WHY he could have taken that much, I mean just the orals alone would do some damage and put his blood panel off the charts....in retrospect he could have taken that much, but why? That cycle doesn't make sense with the amout of gear that's on there. No doubt Muntzer was a great bodybuilder and you're right, the dude was as hardcore as they come, but in the end it cost him his life, from what I understand he died a horrible and very painful death, he might have died doing what he loved to do, but I seriously doubt he would have wanted it to end like that.


10-6 Weeks before the Competition daily:
2 injects Testoviron a 250 mg
1 inject Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
30 tabletts Metandienon
20 iu gh
20 iu Insulin

5-3 weeks before the Competition daily:
3 injects Masteron
2 injects Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
50 tabletts Stromba
2 injects Stromba
24 iu gh
unknown insulin

2-1 weeks before the Competition daily:
2 injects Masteron
2 injects Stromba
40 tabletts Halotestin
80 tabletts Stromba
24 iu gh
unknown Insulin
unknown IGF

A few days before the Competition: Aldactone, Lasix

he also ran Ephederine, AN 1, Captagon, Aspirine, Valium, Clenbuterol daily


all this shit was DAILY.he was also using a protein synthesis drug that thickened his blood and ultimately his liver literally disinegrated! go figure!

[Deicide]

Muenzer Offseason FIBO...

[McFarland]

I've seen guys do 300+ mg's of strong orals per day and live to compete.  And do so for many years consecutively.  And do a shitload more in injectables.  These numbers are just out of your range of comprehension because you read somewhere that 100mg's of something is alot and haven't seen what some guys actually do.  How do you know 100mg's is alot?  Because Bill Phillips figured it was?  What if you never read a WAR telling you that?  You think your body could handle more if your mind were oblivious to what it's limits were supposed to be?  Hey, just food for thought...cause I've seen some shit, and that's all I've been able to come up with to explain it.  I don't advocate anyone doing anywhere near these amounts...but I am convinced there are NO RULES to this game.  

It was probably just one of the more exotic chemicals he may have thrown in there coupled with maybe the cytadren that actually killed him, though, and had he took those out he probably could have kept going for a while longer, and perhaps even continued to improve.  WTF is a "melted liver" anyway.  I think the general understanding is that his liver disintegrated on the flight he took or something.  Who knows what the hell caused that. 

I understand that with his mentality SOMETHING was gonna get him sooner or later, but if you wanna get technical there's alot you could get away with in that stack, for a pretty good while longer than what he actually did.        

Now let me just reiterate...if you do 300mg's of orals per day you're probably nuts, are significantly more prone to injury, and will probably stay in a world of hurt save the relief you might get from whatever accessory meds you're on to boost your tolerance...but it's been done.  It's done all the time, I'm sure.   

[The_Iron_Disciple]

He was 31.  So again, tell us why you can't believe he was doing that much.  IMO he LOOKS LIKE that cycle.  He died young but I have a huge amount of respect for the sheer singularity of purpose that he must have developed over the years to enable him to reach that level.  The self-mastery it must have entailed.  It may not have been conducive to longevity but it surely enabled him to be remembered and what he contributed to the world did alot to show us the current limitations of the human body.  So what if he'd lived?  He probably would've competed another 5-10 years, probably getting progressively worse as he went (could you see him getting better?), after which he may have ended up on Getbig to argue with trolls for another 15, doing his very best to undo any positive legacy he'd accumulated on the stage, then he very well may spent his "twilight years" holed up in some shithole in rural Europe eating some fucked up food raising goats til he died.  Which was more tragic, you tell me.  I don't get why everyone seems to think the purpose of life should be living as long as you can.  So what, think of it as his having donated his body to science.  Which he surely did.  Munzer was as hardcore as they come and I've got nothing but respect for him.   

Good Post !

[haider]

Melt Down !

fixed.

[McFarland]

fixed.

Yes, you are correct sir.   

I've just about concluded now from reading here that anything typed over 3 lines to get a point across is most likely bullshit and can be immediately considered suspect meltdown.  Case in point, I just tried justifying Munzer's "dying for us bitches" at age 31 and it took me 9 lines to fall miserably short of convincing. 

Hey, I still like(d) the guy though.  

[Disgusted]

I know a guy who takes about 800mg per day and has for years. Still alive and in good health so who the fuck knows?

[chaos]

I know a guy who takes about 800mg per day and has for years. Still alive and in good health so who the fuck knows?

how is Kamali doing?

[Danny]

how is Kamali doing?

  lol

[Disgusted]

how is Kamali doing?

  No this guy's is a top amateur and I'm guessing he's been on this amount for close to 10 years.

[Frank.T]

1. Based on WHAT bodybuilding experiances?

2. Thats because you'll believe anything.

1.Based on the experience i got with my open mind,my researches and my capability of learning and to hear others
something that you are no capable of doing coz you're to hard head and you think you know it all when quite frankly Coach you know nothing.Thats why you call yourself a BB and look like that....

2.i don't know if this will help you or make any sense to you but here it goes.
I believe in that munzer´s cycle as much as i don't believe in many Pros that say they are all natural and don't do any kind of roids like Badel for example.

Do you also belive that?

Now if that doesn't make sense to you i don't know what else i can say to you.

Sh*t i remember now..hey coach thats was all genetics right???yeah right.......

[Van_Bilderass]

You could take that shit and live quite a while man, trust me.   

Exactly.

The Coach, there have been many guys who've done 500mg of d-bol or drol daily for short periods of time without any ill effects. Look at Billy Mimnaugh who posts here, he does 200mg of d-bol before meets and says he knows guys who do 500mg the week before. I've seen it done myself. I know a dude who did drol for his first competition, he kept increasing the dosage until he was at 750mg of drol the last week. He was bat-shit crazy but he lived, and 10 years later he is still alive.

[Van_Bilderass]

It was probably just one of the more exotic chemicals he may have thrown in there coupled with maybe the cytadren that actually killed him, though, and had he took those out he probably could have kept going for a while longer, and perhaps even continued to improve.  WTF is a "melted liver" anyway.  I think the general understanding is that his liver disintegrated on the flight he took or something.  Who knows what the hell caused that. 

It might even have been the aspirin that gave him an ulcer and he bled to death, with the other drugs he was on reducing clotting etc. That would been an ironic twist if he died primarily due to aspirin.

Dorian had a bleeding ulcer that almost killed him before his last O. He blamed the aspirin. Who the hell knows though.

[Van_Bilderass]

Since i have fixed that i have no time go back all over again and explain it to you..
So please can you share with us your experience on IFG-1?

Thanks.

IGF-1 = doesn't do much.

What's your experience?

[Frank.T]

IGF-1 = doesn't do much.

What's your experience?

Ok Van_Idontknowwhat  now you showed what you understand about IGF-1....absolutly nothing...
Doesnt do much?

Ok sence IGF-1 is no longer used i will help you to understand whats IGF-1 Long R3
Here´s Dave´s Palumbo IGF article:

Article by Dave Palumbo concerning IGF
Take from it what you want.


(1)-STORAGE OF IGF-1(prior to mixing)
lyophilized (dry) IGF-1is stable at room temperture for three weeks;however,it should be stored below -18 degrees celsius (in the freezer section).

(2)WEIGHT OF IGF-1
1 milligram (mg) IGF-1 = 1,000 mcg (micrograms) IGF-1 (dry weight- before mixing).

(3) WHAT TO MIX THE IGF-1 WITH
when reconstituting,its important to remember IGF-1 can get "stuck" in the grooves of the glass bottle it comes packaged in. while glass appears smooth to the naked eye, under a microscope, it's a convoluted landscape of grooves and hidden recesses.
By mixing the lyophilized IGF-1 with an "acid water" (e.g., 10mM HCL -very dilute hydochloric acid), the IGF-1 molecules are efficiently detached from the glass and solubilized in the mixture. Any online "compounding" laboratory could mix up a 10mM HCL solution. likewise, any intro chemistry student should be able to do the same.
If a reliable source of "acid water" can't be located, mix your IGF-1 powder with BACTERIOSTATIC WATER - you'll lose, at worst, 10 percent of the IGF-1 solution.

(4) ADDING THE ACID WATER
For the purposes of mathematical ease, I suggest mixing the dry 1 milligram (1,000 microgram) IGF-1 with 3ml (or 3cc) of the "acid water" mixture.

(5) PRESERVATION OF THE IGF-1
Next,using a 1cc insulin syringe,draw out 1cc out of the bottle containing the 3cc acid water/IGF-1 mixture.In a seperate 1cc insulin syringe,draw up another 1cc of the solution.Freeze these two loaded insulin syringes.They will be utilized at a later date.

NOTE:Freezing can safely and effectively preserve IGF-1(even after its been mixed)

(6)THE CORRECT DILUTION
To the remaining 1cc of IGF-1 thats left in the glass bottle,add 2cc of bacteriostatic water.This will return the total volume back up to 3cc.

(7)THE MATHEMATICS
(A)The original concentration of the IGF-1 solution was 1mg(1000 micrograms)
IGF-1 in 3cc of water.

(B)Each 1cc that was removed,then,contained approximately 333 micrograms IGF-1 per 1cc.

1,000 micrograms/3cc = 333 micrograms per 1cc

ŠThe 1cc that was left in the bottle,then,also contains 333 micrograms of IGF-1.

(D)Next,we added 2cc of bacteriostatic water to the bottle and brought the volume back up to 3cc.The difference is we now have 333 micrograms in 3cc of water (instead of in 1cc)

(E)To determine how much IGF-1 is in 1cc,you must divide by three.

333 micrograms/3cc=111 micrograms per 1cc

(F)To determine how much IGF-1 is in .10cc (or 1/10thcc) we do the following.

111 micrograms/10=11micrograms per .10cc

(8)EFFICTIVE DOSAGES OF IGF-1
Dosages in the range of 10 to 20 micrograms per day(taken 10 to 15 minuters after training) are quite effective for building and repairing muscle tissue.
More importantly,these moderate dosages (by some peoples estimation)
stimulate muscle growth yet escape rapid "downregulation" of the all important IGF-1 receptors.
Without receptors to recognize the IGF-1,it doesnt matter how much you inject.
NOTHING will happen.
As dosages climb to over 50 micrograms per day,receptor downgrade increases exponentially and,from what I've observed among bodybuilders,muscle gains come to a screeching hault.

Bodybuilders will have the most sucess with IGF-1 if they follow the protocol I outlined below. REMEMBER, more isn't always better.

11 micrograms per day for 30 days (cycle 1) 333 micrograms

2 weeks OFF

11 micrograms per day for 30 days (cycle 2)** 333 micrograms

2 weeks OFF

11 micrograms per day for 30 days (cycle 3)** 333 micrograms

8 weeks OFF


** The second and third cycles of IGF-1 treatment require that the two Frozen 1cc insulin syringes be defrosted(only defrost one per cycle).
Next,inject the defrosted solution into an empty bottle.
Further dilute with 2cc bacteriostatic water. When adding the 2cc of water,use the syringe that originally held the frozen IGF-1.
This also helps to wash the syringe and ensure that no IGF-1 is stuck inside of it.

[just_a_pilgrim]

He was 31.  So again, tell us why you can't believe he was doing that much.  IMO he LOOKS LIKE that cycle.  He died young but I have a huge amount of respect for the sheer singularity of purpose that he must have developed over the years to enable him to reach that level.  The self-mastery it must have entailed.  It may not have been conducive to longevity but it surely enabled him to be remembered and what he contributed to the world did alot to show us the current limitations of the human body.  So what if he'd lived?  He probably would've competed another 5-10 years, probably getting progressively worse as he went (could you see him getting better?), after which he may have ended up on Getbig to argue with trolls for another 15, doing his very best to undo any positive legacy he'd accumulated on the stage, then he very well may spent his "twilight years" holed up in some shithole in rural Europe eating some fucked up food raising goats til he died.  Which was more tragic, you tell me.  I don't get why everyone seems to think the purpose of life should be living as long as you can.  So what, think of it as his having donated his body to science.  Which he surely did.  Munzer was as hardcore as they come and I've got nothing but respect for him.   

Are you saying GH15 will end up being a goat herder in Europe within the next ten years? 

You know what they say....a man can be an 8 time Mr.Olympia and herd one goat, but he's not known as a bodybuilder he's known as a goat fucker.....or something like that

I'd love to hear his thoughts on Munzer....

[slaveboy1980]

He was 31.  So again, tell us why you can't believe he was doing that much.  IMO he LOOKS LIKE that cycle.  He died young but I have a huge amount of respect for the sheer singularity of purpose that he must have developed over the years to enable him to reach that level.  The self-mastery it must have entailed.  It may not have been conducive to longevity but it surely enabled him to be remembered and what he contributed to the world did alot to show us the current limitations of the human body.  So what if he'd lived?  He probably would've competed another 5-10 years, probably getting progressively worse as he went (could you see him getting better?), after which he may have ended up on Getbig to argue with trolls for another 15, doing his very best to undo any positive legacy he'd accumulated on the stage, then he very well may spent his "twilight years" holed up in some shithole in rural Europe eating some fucked up food raising goats til he died.  Which was more tragic, you tell me.  I don't get why everyone seems to think the purpose of life should be living as long as you can.  So what, think of it as his having donated his body to science.  Which he surely did.  Munzer was as hardcore as they come and I've got nothing but respect for him.   

total bullshit.

[Van_Bilderass]

Ok Van_Idontknowwhat  now you showed what you understand about IGF-1....absolutly nothing...
Doesnt do much?

Ok sence IGF-1 is no longer used i will help you to understand whats IGF-1 Long R3
Here´s Dave´s Palumbo IGF article:

You are a fucking moron. First of all, Palumbo is a retard. Second, who cares what his article says, I asked about your experience with it. Have you done it? How much did you gain?

[The Coach]

Ok Van_Idontknowwhat  now you showed what you understand about IGF-1....absolutly nothing...
Doesnt do much?

Ok sence IGF-1 is no longer used i will help you to understand whats IGF-1 Long R3
Here´s Dave´s Palumbo IGF article:

Article by Dave Palumbo concerning IGF
Take from it what you want.


(1)-STORAGE OF IGF-1(prior to mixing)
lyophilized (dry) IGF-1is stable at room temperture for three weeks;however,it should be stored below -18 degrees celsius (in the freezer section).

(2)WEIGHT OF IGF-1
1 milligram (mg) IGF-1 = 1,000 mcg (micrograms) IGF-1 (dry weight- before mixing).

(3) WHAT TO MIX THE IGF-1 WITH
when reconstituting,its important to remember IGF-1 can get "stuck" in the grooves of the glass bottle it comes packaged in. while glass appears smooth to the naked eye, under a microscope, it's a convoluted landscape of grooves and hidden recesses.
By mixing the lyophilized IGF-1 with an "acid water" (e.g., 10mM HCL -very dilute hydochloric acid), the IGF-1 molecules are efficiently detached from the glass and solubilized in the mixture. Any online "compounding" laboratory could mix up a 10mM HCL solution. likewise, any intro chemistry student should be able to do the same.
If a reliable source of "acid water" can't be located, mix your IGF-1 powder with BACTERIOSTATIC WATER - you'll lose, at worst, 10 percent of the IGF-1 solution.

(4) ADDING THE ACID WATER
For the purposes of mathematical ease, I suggest mixing the dry 1 milligram (1,000 microgram) IGF-1 with 3ml (or 3cc) of the "acid water" mixture.

(5) PRESERVATION OF THE IGF-1
Next,using a 1cc insulin syringe,draw out 1cc out of the bottle containing the 3cc acid water/IGF-1 mixture.In a seperate 1cc insulin syringe,draw up another 1cc of the solution.Freeze these two loaded insulin syringes.They will be utilized at a later date.

NOTE:Freezing can safely and effectively preserve IGF-1(even after its been mixed)

(6)THE CORRECT DILUTION
To the remaining 1cc of IGF-1 thats left in the glass bottle,add 2cc of bacteriostatic water.This will return the total volume back up to 3cc.

(7)THE MATHEMATICS
(A)The original concentration of the IGF-1 solution was 1mg(1000 micrograms)
IGF-1 in 3cc of water.

(B)Each 1cc that was removed,then,contained approximately 333 micrograms IGF-1 per 1cc.

1,000 micrograms/3cc = 333 micrograms per 1cc

ŠThe 1cc that was left in the bottle,then,also contains 333 micrograms of IGF-1.

(D)Next,we added 2cc of bacteriostatic water to the bottle and brought the volume back up to 3cc.The difference is we now have 333 micrograms in 3cc of water (instead of in 1cc)

(E)To determine how much IGF-1 is in 1cc,you must divide by three.

333 micrograms/3cc=111 micrograms per 1cc

(F)To determine how much IGF-1 is in .10cc (or 1/10thcc) we do the following.

111 micrograms/10=11micrograms per .10cc

(8)EFFICTIVE DOSAGES OF IGF-1
Dosages in the range of 10 to 20 micrograms per day(taken 10 to 15 minuters after training) are quite effective for building and repairing muscle tissue.
More importantly,these moderate dosages (by some peoples estimation)
stimulate muscle growth yet escape rapid "downregulation" of the all important IGF-1 receptors.
Without receptors to recognize the IGF-1,it doesnt matter how much you inject.
NOTHING will happen.
As dosages climb to over 50 micrograms per day,receptor downgrade increases exponentially and,from what I've observed among bodybuilders,muscle gains come to a screeching hault.

Bodybuilders will have the most sucess with IGF-1 if they follow the protocol I outlined below. REMEMBER, more isn't always better.

11 micrograms per day for 30 days (cycle 1) 333 micrograms

2 weeks OFF

11 micrograms per day for 30 days (cycle 2)** 333 micrograms

2 weeks OFF

11 micrograms per day for 30 days (cycle 3)** 333 micrograms

8 weeks OFF


** The second and third cycles of IGF-1 treatment require that the two Frozen 1cc insulin syringes be defrosted(only defrost one per cycle).
Next,inject the defrosted solution into an empty bottle.
Further dilute with 2cc bacteriostatic water. When adding the 2cc of water,use the syringe that originally held the frozen IGF-1.
This also helps to wash the syringe and ensure that no IGF-1 is stuck inside of it.

Nice cut and paste. Good to know you know everything and everyone else know's nothing.  Go away!

[The Coach]

Exactly.

The Coach, there have been many guys who've done 500mg of d-bol or drol daily for short periods of time without any ill effects. Look at Billy Mimnaugh who posts here, he does 200mg of d-bol before meets and says he knows guys who do 500mg the week before. I've seen it done myself. I know a dude who did drol for his first competition, he kept increasing the dosage until he was at 750mg of drol the last week. He was bat-shit crazy but he lived, and 10 years later he is still alive.

Thats was for short periods of time (very short) and of course before a power meet I could see taking those doses, as a matter of fact I know of people that have taken up to 8-10 anadrols before a meet (hell look at Mendelson), but in this list Muntzer is on a ten week cycle taking up to 40 halo's per day along with 30 Stromba. And how many times did he compete in a year?

[Van_Bilderass]

Thats was for short periods of time (very short) and of course before a power meet I could see taking those doses, as a matter of fact I know of people that have taken up to 8-10 anadrols before a meet (hell look at Mendelson), but in this list Muntzer is on a ten week cycle taking up to 40 halo's per day along with 30 Stromba. And how many times did he compete in a year?

I may be mistaken but the Stromba could be 2mg and the Halo the same? That would be 140mg.

I mean, Anadrol is prescribed at up to 5mg/kg bodyweight and patients are on for years. There was a German Anadrol study where they were put on 150mg for 6 months and there was apparently no sign of liver stress in any of them.

So while what Munzer did was dangerous it wouldn't kill most very quickly. And he did die, so...
I'm saying it's possible he did that without dying immediately, but only he knew what he did.

[slaveboy1980]

I may be mistaken but the Stromba could be 2mg and the Halo the same? That would be 140mg.

I mean, Anadrol is prescribed at up to 5mg/kg bodyweight and patients are on for years. There was a German Anadrol study where they were put on 150mg for 6 months and there was apparently no sign of liver stress in any of them.

So while what Munzer did was dangerous it wouldn't kill most very quickly. And he did die, so...
I'm saying it's possible he did that without dying immediately, but only he knew what he did.

van_bilderass is on home turf 

like a fish in a pond!

[The Coach]

I may be mistaken but the Stromba could be 2mg and the Halo the same? That would be 140mg.

I mean, Anadrol is prescribed at up to 5mg/kg bodyweight and patients are on for years. There was a German Anadrol study where they were put on 150mg for 6 months and there was apparently no sign of liver stress in any of them.

So while what Munzer did was dangerous it wouldn't kill most very quickly. And he did die, so...
I'm saying it's possible he did that without dying immediately, but only he knew what he did.

Yes, stromba is 2mg but I'm pretty sure that halo is 10mg. I'm not saying that's what killed him, I'm saying thats an astonomical amount of daily gear. Funny, I'm feel like I'm taking alot and according to some people, I'm taking practically nothing.