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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Arnold jr on November 12, 2007, 10:31:16 PM
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I got to thinking today about all the questions on this board. For the most part, most of the questions are legitimate, many of the questions are the same ones I had when I first started out with all of this stuff…so I’m more then happy to offer what little bit I do know to someone else, because others at one time did the same for me. Granted, there are some questions that get asked that are down right idiotic but that’s the nature of questions, there are good ones, not so good ones, and insanely weird ones.
But I’ve noticed a pattern for a while that has bothered me a little. Guys will come on here in the beginning asking the basic questions we all ask and as time goes by, their questions begin to evolve. As they evolve themselves into more sound bodybuilders and more educated individuals when it comes to the topic of performance enhancing drugs, there is one key flaw that seems to prevail.
Most are interested in doing things as properly as they can, with sound judgment therefore minimizing risk to the full extent plausible. Hey, there is nothing wrong with this and for the most part this sound judgment should be applauded.
However, in the end, most people come back over and over again, wondering how can they do things better? How can they reach the level of muscular development that they truly desire? At this stage, the person has more then likely gotten to the point where they more then likely do not follow the same protocol when it comes to this topic that they did in the beginning. As they evolve into better bodybuilders, they inevitably evolve into more of a risk taker when it comes to performance enhancing drugs.
It is at this point, many end up falling away from drug use themselves. They begin to realize that no matter what they do, they will never look like the guys they see on the covers of a magazine…that is unless their evolvement goes to a state way beyond what they have accepted so far.
Then we’re left with just a few, a very small minority. These individuals continue to grow as bodybuilders, they do not loose most of their size after coming off cycle. In fact, they get bigger an better each and every time. Why is this, what’s the secret, what’s the magic formula that most guys are missing? Is it genetics, is that all it is? We all know genetics play such a huge and important role in this game. Even with “good” genetics, most will never reach the magazine look. Yet there are those who even with sub-par genetics, continue to flourish each and every year and it is this fact that drives the majority of bodybuilders absolutely nuts!
So what’s the ticket you ask, please, please let me know this secret you cry. It’s actually quite simple and can be summed up with one word…RISK.
The guy who falls into this small minority does not follow the guided judgment of most performance enhancing drug users. He does not follow things like time on equals time off, he does not follow the basic safety procedures that many are accustomed to. His cycles are thoroughly planned out, but at a moments notice it will change if he notices even a slight stalemate in growth and production.
He has forgone the “play it safe” motto, and in the end he may very well pay for his decisions…then again he may not…time will tell. He understands this reality and accepts the risk and responsibility himself…even so, he’s still bigger and better then you.
Many of my closest friends are die hard bodybuilders. Many of these friends use large amounts of gear, and stay on indefinitely. Many of these same friends are national level competitors, hey, two of them are doing Nationals this wk end.
So that’s the truth. That’s the difference between him and you. Is this a fact set in stone? No, there are always exceptions, but in general you can bet your supply of test that it’s dead on the money.
This doesn’t mean you should say to yourself, “well crap, I guess I’m SOL!” Far from it. Playing it safe, is just that, playing it safe, and we all take certain risk in life to reach and achieve what we desire. A business man may put all he has into a future endeavor, in the end he may fall flat on his face, bankrupt and homeless.
Last thing, and for heaven sake hear this. Do not say to yourself, “hey, I’m willing to risk it.” Just because you’re willing does not make it a good idea. Calculate your risk, determine what’s important…and go from there. All I’ve done with this little letter to some of you guys is explained the truth…nothing more.
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Well-said, arnie.
Life is a balance, for sure. Unfortunately for many, the decisions to embark down this path are made at a point in time when the rest of life is pretty uncomplicated. Young guy, early 20's, has a meaningless job (not a career or profession) that flows him enough cash to rent a crappy apartment, lease a car he can't afford, and watch football games on the huge flat screen television he bought at the BestBuy "no-money-down" sale with payments and interest that will take him 6 years to pay off. He believes that bodybuilding is his life, and has no capacity to look ahead into the future beyond his next injection and his next creatine sh*t.
Then life sort of sneaks up on him. Now he's in his 30's, his friends are all holding down stable jobs, starting families. He keeps at it, though. Same crappy apartment. bills piling up, no prospects for a good job. Most girls won't even touch him because now the big fish in the pond just looks like a total gear-head with no future. Pumping gear into himself with poorly-conceived cycles, huge dosages, Nubain to control his pain. We've all seen that guy.
Don't be that guy.
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Great posts gentlemen!
i agree 100%, the biggest and strongest men i have ever met were the ones who pushed the envelope to the MAX. sure they have good genetics, train hard and eat well but it takes alot to be a large bodybuilder these days.
i think i have taken a calculated risk and i believe i've done pretty well adapting to this game but there is always more to be disired. i want to live a healthy life without having to worry about whats going to happen when i hit 60. that is why i've chosen another route in this game.
i've always followed the basics and stayed away from Slin and other drugs i find can be harmful like DNP. i think if you cannot get big off the basics then you have no right to be in this game, but that's just my opinion.
8)
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you been smoking that shit again eh?
what i've learned from this...more = less
;D
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you been smoking that shit again eh?
what i've learned from this...more = less
;D
Actually that wasn't the point at all...the exact opposite in a sense. This is not to say "more" equals "more" but in the end if it's the right guy, this may be the case more often then not.
Of the guys I know, I do not know one who competes nationally who follows "standard" protocol...for 99.9% of us, it is not possable.
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I got to thinking today about all the questions on this board. For the most part, most of the questions are legitimate, many of the questions are the same ones I had when I first started out with all of this stuff…so I’m more then happy to offer what little bit I do know to someone else, because others at one time did the same for me. Granted, there are some questions that get asked that are down right idiotic but that’s the nature of questions, there are good ones, not so good ones, and insanely weird ones.
But I’ve noticed a pattern for a while that has bothered me a little. Guys will come on here in the beginning asking the basic questions we all ask and as time goes by, their questions begin to evolve. As they evolve themselves into more sound bodybuilders and more educated individuals when it comes to the topic of performance enhancing drugs, there is one key flaw that seems to prevail.
Most are interested in doing things as properly as they can, with sound judgment therefore minimizing risk to the full extent plausible. Hey, there is nothing wrong with this and for the most part this sound judgment should be applauded.
However, in the end, most people come back over and over again, wondering how can they do things better? How can they reach the level of muscular development that they truly desire? At this stage, the person has more then likely gotten to the point where they more then likely do not follow the same protocol when it comes to this topic that they did in the beginning. As they evolve into better bodybuilders, they inevitably evolve into more of a risk taker when it comes to performance enhancing drugs.
It is at this point, many end up falling away from drug use themselves. They begin to realize that no matter what they do, they will never look like the guys they see on the covers of a magazine…that is unless their evolvement goes to a state way beyond what they have accepted so far.
Then we’re left with just a few, a very small minority. These individuals continue to grow as bodybuilders, they do not loose most of their size after coming off cycle. In fact, they get bigger an better each and every time. Why is this, what’s the secret, what’s the magic formula that most guys are missing? Is it genetics, is that all it is? We all know genetics play such a huge and important role in this game. Even with “good” genetics, most will never reach the magazine look. Yet there are those who even with sub-par genetics, continue to flourish each and every year and it is this fact that drives the majority of bodybuilders absolutely nuts!
So what’s the ticket you ask, please, please let me know this secret you cry. It’s actually quite simple and can be summed up with one word…RISK.
The guy who falls into this small minority does not follow the guided judgment of most performance enhancing drug users. He does not follow things like time on equals time off, he does not follow the basic safety procedures that many are accustomed to. His cycles are thoroughly planned out, but at a moments notice it will change if he notices even a slight stalemate in growth and production.
He has forgone the “play it safe” motto, and in the end he may very well pay for his decisions…then again he may not…time will tell. He understands this reality and accepts the risk and responsibility himself…even so, he’s still bigger and better then you.
Many of my closest friends are die hard bodybuilders. Many of these friends use large amounts of gear, and stay on indefinitely. Many of these same friends are national level competitors, hey, two of them are doing Nationals this wk end.
So that’s the truth. That’s the difference between him and you. Is this a fact set in stone? No, there are always exceptions, but in general you can bet your supply of test that it’s dead on the money.
This doesn’t mean you should say to yourself, “well crap, I guess I’m SOL!” Far from it. Playing it safe, is just that, playing it safe, and we all take certain risk in life to reach and achieve what we desire. A business man may put all he has into a future endeavor, in the end he may fall flat on his face, bankrupt and homeless.
Last thing, and for heaven sake hear this. Do not say to yourself, “hey, I’m willing to risk it.” Just because you’re willing does not make it a good idea. Calculate your risk, determine what’s important…and go from there. All I’ve done with this little letter to some of you guys is explained the truth…nothing more.
Great post!!!!!!
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Actually that wasn't the point at all...the exact opposite in a sense. This is not to say "more" equals "more" but in the end if it's the right guy, this may be the case more often then not.
Of the guys I know, I do not know one who competes nationally who follows "standard" protocol...for 99.9% of us, it is not possable.
i was kidding bro..lol
dry humor,tough luv i guess
just stop deleting my posts :-\
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Arnoldjr is right. A way to sum this up would "You have to go out on the limb to reach the fruit".
If you really want to be big there is going to be some risk. I mean..c'mon guys, how big do you honestly think you will grow to only test e 500mg a week alone? I need to get Flex Wheeler's book and maybe he tells what the real amounts are? Lol, closet we get on here is Milos tells us he does use insulin.
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i was kidding bro..lol
dry humor,tough luv i guess
just stop deleting my posts :-\
Have I been deleting your post? Honestly, Rim and I do end up removing a good deal of crap from the board from time to time, but I don't keep up with who's post I deleted...that is unless it's a constant thing then I have no choice but to notice...in this case I'll usually send a warning via PM to the guy.
You know, BS comments on some level are fine...nothing wrong with having fun...busting balls, fine too...but there is a fine line between what's cool and what's not...especially on this section of the board due to the nature of most of the topics/questions.
Now I will admit this, if a guy has been here on this board for a while, I'm apt to give him a little more leeway. Simply because we who've been part of this section have gotten accustomed to each others lingo and can tell if some sort of hate remark is just in good fun or if it's a baseless attack...see what I mean?
Arnoldjr is right. A way to sum this up would "You have to go out on the limb to reach the fruit".
I like this...I'm going to have to steal that saying from you! :)
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strange post...sounds like it was meant for people who have a juice problems its like anno girls never think they are skinny enough well juice heads never feel big enough. most my friends always say they dont want to look like me and i dont even feel big at all just normal but no one else feels that way and all the juice heads i know feel the same way that they arent big enough...im actually becoming bothered by being called a roider its lik F you its not up for discussion...anyone could do it if they get their hands on it...and most guys really want to do it..the truth is they are either too scared or not dedicated enough.. and then they want to talk shit saying its cheating reallly pisses me off just jealous bitches, i dont clown on them for being weak..well maybe somtimes not sure ha sorry for the run off
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strange post...sounds like it was meant for people who have a juice problems its like anno girls never think they are skinny enough well juice heads never feel big enough. most my friends always say they dont want to look like me and i dont even feel big at all just normal but no one else feels that way and all the juice heads i know feel the same way that they arent big enough...im actually becoming bothered by being called a roider its lik F you its not up for discussion...anyone could do it if they get their hands on it...and most guys really want to do it..the truth is they are either too scared or not dedicated enough.. and then they want to talk shit saying its cheating reallly pisses me off just jealous bitches, i dont clown on them for being weak..well maybe somtimes not sure ha sorry for the run off
Actually, this thread was started based upon the number of PM's and emails I get on a daily basis that are surrounded by this topic. For example:
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Hello Arnold jr November 13, 2007, 10:21:29 PM *
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Show unread posts since last visit. | Show new replies to your posts.
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damn how many you get a day... at least your helping people who are looking up to you ;D
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Lets take this to an entirely higher level. I'm going to be hypothetical here, so bare with me.
If you aren't competing or don't plan on being as big as a house with a goal in mind (power lifting, bodybuilding, modeling, pro sports etc) what business do you have being on? As far as most should be concerned, it's a big risk to take for vanity. Think about it, jail, infection, permanently modifying your bodies hormonal balance. There are a myriad of problems that you can run into from just simple, small cycles.
I happen to have an extreme personality that has gotten me into trouble but has also helped propel me high levels of achievement in sport and career. If I am going to stick a needle in my ass every other day, I'm gonna fill that f**ker up and make sure I get the best bang for the buck and I'll do that with the goal of WINNING competitions. Crack out the slin, mix up the GH and pop the tops on some test... I'm goin' in!
Not everybody is capable of doing this. For most they lack either finances or testicular fortitude. Advances have never been made without major risk. You hit the nail on the head when you mention calculating your risk. It's all about ROI. If I am not going to get a good return on my investment of time money and risk, i'm going to rethink.
If you wanna look good and get in shape, anyone can do that with a decent diet and training 3 times a week.
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Lets take this to an entirely higher level. I'm going to be hypothetical here, so bare with me.
If you aren't competing or don't plan on being as big as a house with a goal in mind (power lifting, bodybuilding, modeling, pro sports etc) what business do you have being on? As far as most should be concerned, it's a big risk to take for vanity. Think about it, jail, infection, permanently modifying your bodies hormonal balance. There are a myriad of problems that you can run into from just simple, small cycles.
I happen to have an extreme personality that has gotten me into trouble but has also helped propel me high levels of achievement in sport and career. If I am going to stick a needle in my ass every other day, I'm gonna fill that f**ker up and make sure I get the best bang for the buck and I'll do that with the goal of WINNING competitions. Crack out the slin, mix up the GH and pop the tops on some test... I'm goin' in!
Not everybody is capable of doing this. For most they lack either finances or testicular fortitude. Advances have never been made without major risk. You hit the nail on the head when you mention calculating your risk. It's all about ROI. If I am not going to get a good return on my investment of time money and risk, i'm going to rethink.
If you wanna look good and get in shape, anyone can do that with a decent diet and training 3 times a week.
Love it!
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Lets take this to an entirely higher level. I'm going to be hypothetical here, so bare with me.
If you aren't competing or don't plan on being as big as a house with a goal in mind (power lifting, bodybuilding, modeling, pro sports etc) what business do you have being on? As far as most should be concerned, it's a big risk to take for vanity. Think about it, jail, infection, permanently modifying your bodies hormonal balance. There are a myriad of problems that you can run into from just simple, small cycles.
I happen to have an extreme personality that has gotten me into trouble but has also helped propel me high levels of achievement in sport and career. If I am going to stick a needle in my ass every other day, I'm gonna fill that f**ker up and make sure I get the best bang for the buck and I'll do that with the goal of WINNING competitions. Crack out the slin, mix up the GH and pop the tops on some test... I'm goin' in!
Not everybody is capable of doing this. For most they lack either finances or testicular fortitude. Advances have never been made without major risk. You hit the nail on the head when you mention calculating your risk. It's all about ROI. If I am not going to get a good return on my investment of time money and risk, i'm going to rethink.
If you wanna look good and get in shape, anyone can do that with a decent diet and training 3 times a week.
"testicular fortitude" excelant!
Great post...agree big time!
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strange post...sounds like it was meant for people who have a juice problems its like anno girls never think they are skinny enough well juice heads never feel big enough. most my friends always say they dont want to look like me and i dont even feel big at all just normal but no one else feels that way and all the juice heads i know feel the same way that they arent big enough...im actually becoming bothered by being called a roider its lik F you its not up for discussion...anyone could do it if they get their hands on it...and most guys really want to do it..the truth is they are either too scared or not dedicated enough.. and then they want to talk shit saying its cheating reallly pisses me off just jealous bitches, i dont clown on them for being weak..well maybe somtimes not sure ha sorry for the run off
AHYAHAAHAHAH!!! Yes "no one", you're all heart.
Rampant irony is always fun.
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Lets take this to an entirely higher level. I'm going to be hypothetical here, so bare with me.
If you aren't competing or don't plan on being as big as a house with a goal in mind (power lifting, bodybuilding, modeling, pro sports etc) what business do you have being on? As far as most should be concerned, it's a big risk to take for vanity. Think about it, jail, infection, permanently modifying your bodies hormonal balance. There are a myriad of problems that you can run into from just simple, small cycles.
I happen to have an extreme personality that has gotten me into trouble but has also helped propel me high levels of achievement in sport and career. If I am going to stick a needle in my ass every other day, I'm gonna fill that f**ker up and make sure I get the best bang for the buck and I'll do that with the goal of WINNING competitions. Crack out the slin, mix up the GH and pop the tops on some test... I'm goin' in!
Not everybody is capable of doing this. For most they lack either finances or testicular fortitude. Advances have never been made without major risk. You hit the nail on the head when you mention calculating your risk. It's all about ROI. If I am not going to get a good return on my investment of time money and risk, i'm going to rethink.
If you wanna look good and get in shape, anyone can do that with a decent diet and training 3 times a week.
what business of yours is it to question somebody who uses?
::)
permanently modifying your body's hormones with a moderate cycle?
laugh.
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yeaaaaaa boy
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what business of yours is it to question somebody who uses?
::)
permanently modifying your body's hormones with a moderate cycle?
laugh.
Yeah, the stuff weren't exactly intended for BBing when they invented it anyway. ANd, what do most BBers get to show prize money winning wise, or taht will support him from its use? Hell, a average construction worker would have more to gain.
I doubt the prize money pays the drug bill for lots of top competitors.
The idea that theis stuff can only be used by high level competitive BBers is stupid. As if thats a all Holy cause.
Now the idea of abusing the hell out of it to a level you KNOW is unhealthy is another story.
Make your own choices in life.
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Yeah, the stuff weren't exactly intended for BBing when they invented it anyway. ANd, what do most BBers get to show prize money winning wise, or taht will support him from its use? Hell, a average construction worker would have more to gain.
I doubt the prize money pays the drug bill for lots of top competitors.
The idea that theis stuff can only be used by high level competitive BBers is stupid. As if thats a all Holy cause.
Now the idea of abusing the hell out of it to a level you KNOW is unhealthy is another story.
Make your own choices in life.
What prize money? These guys cant even afford their grocery bill from contest winnings because most don't get a check for being a lower level tiered pro. Sad as it is, not all that compete get a check and if they do, might be $1000 for top ten finish. Sure the O and the Arnold have big prize money but if you are not in the top 5, forget about it, your starving!
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Yeah, tahts why its a little absurd to use BBing comp as a rationalization for use. If I want to use the stuff I will. For whatever its good for.
But using it so its not harmfull. The idea that Kamikaze is the only way to benefit is flawed.
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Yeah, tahts why its a little absurd to use BBing comp as a rationalization for use. If I want to use the stuff I will. For whatever its good for.
But using it so its not harmfull. The idea that Kamikaze is the only way to benefit is flawed.
I agree 1000%
Even though I will be competiting nationally, I am not for the intention of going pro. Doing it for me as it has always been a goal, if I get spanked, great, if not, great, might go another round. But does not dictate why I use.
Honestly, since using, I feel better mentally more so than the physical aspects. Low test sucks and will not go back to how I felt when my system crashed from "Natural" supplements
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I'd like to clarify as I may have miscomunicated in my original post.
I'll never tell anyone that they should or should be on. I was simply using it as an example. Gear is a TOOL just like a barbell, a piece of chicken or your multivitamin. If there is a tool that will help you get a job done (i.e. attain a GOAL), then my all means, you should go get that tool.
So lets take this analogy further. Lets say you're putting up a fence in your back yard. I'm pretty sure you aren't going to go out and buy a backhoe with an auger attachment to drill your post holes. Think of the damage to your lawn! It would be overkill. Just go get a post digger at Home Depot or even a gas auger if you've got lots of poles to ground. Post diggers and augers are like creatine and protein. Backhoes are like a gram of test. When you build a castle, the post digger won't cut it.
Bottom line is, examine your goals and decide what tools you'll NEED to get there. Just cause you aren't competing, doesn't mean you don't want to be big as a house, right?
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I'd like to clarify as I may have miscomunicated in my original post.
I'll never tell anyone that they should or should be on. I was simply using it as an example. Gear is a TOOL just like a barbell, a piece of chicken or your multivitamin. If there is a tool that will help you get a job done (i.e. attain a GOAL), then my all means, you should go get that tool.
So lets take this analogy further. Lets say you're putting up a fence in your back yard. I'm pretty sure you aren't going to go out and buy a backhoe with an auger attachment to drill your post holes. Think of the damage to your lawn! It would be overkill. Just go get a post digger at Home Depot or even a gas auger if you've got lots of poles to ground. Post diggers and augers are like creatine and protein. Backhoes are like a gram of test. When you build a castle, the post digger won't cut it.
Bottom line is, examine your goals and decide what tools you'll NEED to get there. Just cause you aren't competing, doesn't mean you don't want to be big as a house, right?
........hmmmm.....sounds good to me :)
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i feel less equals more but everyone is on their own agenda with their roid use
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less does not equal more.... this has been proven time and time again. More equals more, less equals less. Not to sound like an ass, but what kind of retarded statement is 'less equals more' when study upon study show that gains in size and strength are directly proportional to dosage.
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less does not equal more.... this has been proven time and time again. More equals more, less equals less. Not to sound like an ass, but what kind of retarded statement is 'less equals more' when study upon study show that gains in size and strength are directly proportional to dosage.
Can you post or referance said study?
Quite honestly, I know guys that use small amounts and make great progress. Genetics has a lot to do with how well one responds to gear.
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totaly brutaly honest post... u cant turn into a monster playing it safe, do the same things and expect to say the same!!!
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totaly brutaly honest post... u cant turn into a monster playing it safe, do the same things and expect to say the same!!!
Well, that's Arnold jr. for you, lol!
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not exactly what i meant.. i meant if you can get by with less its a good thing...get it
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Can you post or referance said study?
Quite honestly, I know guys that use small amounts and make great progress. Genetics has a lot to do with how well one responds to gear.
check the www.steroid.com profile of test. i am too lazy to find it.
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I would honestly say genetics are the most important. take capriese murray for example he was massive and huge and just ate 2 meals a day.. he started working with john O-reagon and he started eating 6 times a day got better with hormone usage and site injections and bam he was a pro in less than 2 yrs.. genetics are def the biggest key... their are guys out there who could easily be mr.olympia if they decided to use the right hormones and get into the shadey life of a bodybuilder.. Dorian Yates probably did more injections than any bodybuilder ever. from what I know the guy was a pin cushion sometimes doing 10-20 shots of diffrent goodies daily and heavily into site injecting... I can barely do 2-3 shots a week so I know the reality of competing is dim... truth is dont do steroids unless your over 20, have at least 4-5 yrs of training under your belt and can actually handle some decent weight with good form. if your benching 250pds or less or cant do squats with 300-400 pds steroids probably are not for you because I know guys who do that naturally with ease!
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I would honestly say genetics are the most important. take capriese murray for example he was massive and huge and just ate 2 meals a day.. he started working with john O-reagon and he started eating 6 times a day got better with hormone usage and site injections and bam he was a pro in less than 2 yrs.. genetics are def the biggest key... their are guys out there who could easily be mr.olympia if they decided to use the right hormones and get into the shadey life of a bodybuilder.. Dorian Yates probably did more injections than any bodybuilder ever. from what I know the guy was a pin cushion sometimes doing 10-20 shots of diffrent goodies daily and heavily into site injecting... I can barely do 2-3 shots a week so I know the reality of competing is dim... truth is dont do steroids unless your over 20, have at least 4-5 yrs of training under your belt and can actually handle some decent weight with good form. if your benching 250pds or less or cant do squats with 300-400 pds steroids probably are not for you because I know guys who do that naturally with ease!
I've always heard that about Capriese Murray too, but it's hard to believe IMO.
...hey white, come on, only 2-3 pins a wk? You can man up for more then that...talk to me when you start pinning 2x/ed every day, lol
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dorian never disscussed his gear usage,,, all the brit pros would talk about it openly at seminars but he would state that he used them but wouldnt discuss them.... love to know how people have all this knoledge on what he did in that case!
i agree with the popundage statement too, if you cant squat 3 or 4 plates a side with out gear your waisting your time filling your self full of drugs
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More truth from Arnold jr.
OK, so we've discussed what it takes to truly be a monster in terms of drug protocol...not to the point of extreme dissecting, but just an understanding of what it takes. Now we'll talk about the drugs themselves. Not what to use or not to use or how much to use, but rather where you get them from.
Most of you are familiar with the poster on this board GH15, and most of you are aware that he and I have definitely had our share of disagreements. Even so, there is one thing that he is always preaching and I agree with him 100%. Under Ground Labs are a waste and you will never reach your full potential or get any where near freak size by using them.
Let me explain some things. I see guys all the time, guys that have been using and cycling AAS for several years. But most of these guys never really make the kinds of gains they should be making using performance enhancing drugs. Just to clarify, I'm talking about guys who actually train and eat right, not the gym rat that we all label the "idiot" of the gym...every gym has them.
Now, these guys I speak of, when they did their first cycle, they made some pretty good gains using UGL gear. Like most UGL gear, it was more then likely under-dosed significantly, or not what it said it was...it's not uncommon for UGL's to sell a huge list of items, but in reality, every item in the vile is just under-dosed test...at least we hope it's at least test and not vegetable oil or some bacteria infested oil. Even so, these guys made decent gains because even the slightest bit of anabolics entering the body, anyone will grow your first time...it doesn't take much.
But then the growth almost stops all together. They get on a new cycle, and they continually add more and more MG' per wk to the cycles...each cycle is bigger then the last because they are so desperate to make gains. They do end up gaining a little, because even though they are good and smart guys when it comes to training and nutrition, they still inevitably push it a little harder when "on." But the gains are minimal, and could have been reached more then likely without the new cycle.
They get frustrated and make claims like maybe their receptors are simply fired from all the years of use. Or maybe it's just that they don't have great genetics. Sorry guys, this is a lie if you believe it...it simply does not work that way...not to this extent.
So what's the root of the problem? Simple, most are not using good gear...that's it. When you use good gear, you should grow a good deal, and this should happen every single time you cycle. True, you may never grow like you did the first time you cycle, but you shouldn't be making minimal gains either.
Now, I'm not going to stand up here on my soap box and make a bunch of hypocritical statements. I've used my share of UGL gear...I've used some junk. I've been suckered in by "low prices." After all, who likes spending more money then they have to. But ask yourself this, would you rather pay a little more for 100% good gear, or would you rather save a few bucks for gear that is, well, who knows what it is?
Granted, there are a few decent UGL's out there...not many though, and most of the decent domestic UGL's are long gone. You guys all know I was a big supporter of the late GPL, only UGL I ever supported or considered to be legitimate. But guess what, GPL didn't simply supply UGL gear, GPL also carried a full line of licensed human grade gear as well. GPL, if you knew him well enough, would even go as far as to send you both his UGL blend of a product as well as the human grade equivalent to see if you thought they matched up. They didn't every time, but they usually did, and if they didn't match up it would still be pretty close. But to find someone like this again, to find another GPL, good luck, cause it's a long shot...a really long shot.
The point of this long post, use human grade gear. Use human grade gear and watch yourself grow. Use UGL gear and remain the same size you are now. It's your call.
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People talk lots about UGLs and HG but whats your opinion on vet grade gear?
Thanks
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vet grade and human grade are made in the same places under the same conditions...
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less does not equal more.... this has been proven time and time again. More equals more, less equals less. Not to sound like an ass, but what kind of retarded statement is 'less equals more' when study upon study show that gains in size and strength are directly proportional to dosage.
I would have to agree how could less equal more? Very good point to make. People like to beleive that less is more cause it makes them feel OK about being cautious and that is cool, cause cautious is smart.
But you will not get the same gains on 400mg EW of test that you would on 1200mg its just that simple. Just like a six pack of brew will get you buzzed up but a 12 pack will have you wasted. On the flip side the day after you will feel better if you stopped at 6. :-\
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I would have to agree how could less equal more? Very good point to make. People like to beleive that less is more cause it makes them feel OK about being cautious and that is cool, cause cautious is smart.
But you will not get the same gains on 400mg EW of test that you would on 1200mg its just that simple. Just like a six pack of brew will get you buzzed up but a 12 pack will have you wasted. On the flip side the day after you will feel better if you stopped at 6. :-\
I agree, but there's also a point high dose makes ya feel like crap. That is counterproductive.
My feel is that BP is one of the easiest marks to see your going too far.
That dont mean you cant do harm with a dose in normal BP range, but on big androgen loads its the thing to watch.
Everyone who uses should get a moniter and learn to use it. HAVING SOme BP meds on hand if you go to far on long acting androgen also. A rare trip to the Dr is NOT ENOUGH, and often gives distorted readings then anyway.
Theres a point more is simply a waste. It takes a strong horse of a guy to handle some of these cycles commonly thrown around here, and truth is lots of theis UG Who-Knows-What-aBol is drasticly underdosed at best.
I tell ya what, 1000mg of test & 400 Deca should make itself known! No question about it.
Thats about all I care for myself at the most.
There's several guys here that know real deal, but many that pop in here are clueless as to what real steriod act like at those doses.
There's a point more is like dumping gas down the side of the race car. It dont make it go faster. Its simply a fire hazard.
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I would have to agree how could less equal more? Very good point to make. People like to beleive that less is more cause it makes them feel OK about being cautious and that is cool, cause cautious is smart.
But you will not get the same gains on 400mg EW of test that you would on 1200mg its just that simple. Just like a six pack of brew will get you buzzed up but a 12 pack will have you wasted. On the flip side the day after you will feel better if you stopped at 6. :-\
The old "less equals more" argument. Most ridiculous statement in the world when you're talking about AAS...it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Like trab said, "more" equals "more" potential problems, but it still equals more gains too.
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genetics def help like south pacific islanders are sooo jacked they wouldnt have to do much juice to get nutty and thats what i mean by if you can do less juice its a good thing for health reasons not for size but health
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genetics def help like south pacific islanders are sooo jacked they wouldnt have to do much juice to get nutty and thats what i mean by if you can do less juice its a good thing for health reasons not for size but health
Yes, I'll agree with that. No one can claim that running a few thousad grams a wk of AAS for long periods is all that healthy...not in the grand scheme of things. But since when are we talking about health, lol?
Speaking of bodybuilding and health. One of my favorite quotes concerning this was by Marcus Ruhl a few years back...it was in one of his videos. It was after a training session, and he walks out side and lights up a cigarette. Someone asked him, "why do you smoke? Isn't bodybuilding supposed to be about being healthy?" Marcus looked at the guy with a confused look and said "when did bodybuilding become healthy? It has nothing to do with health." I prob didn't quote that exactly word for word like he said it, but that was the jist...either way, it cracked me up!
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Yes, I'll agree with that. No one can claim that running a few thousad grams a wk of AAS for long periods is all that healthy...not in the grand scheme of things. But since when are we talking about health, lol?
Speaking of bodybuilding and health. One of my favorite quotes concerning this was by Marcus Ruhl a few years back...it was in one of his videos. It was after a training session, and he walks out side and lights up a cigarette. Someone asked him, "why do you smoke? Isn't bodybuilding supposed to be about being healthy?" Marcus looked at the guy with a confused look and said "when did bodybuilding become healthy? It has nothing to do with health." I prob didn't quote that exactly word for word like he said it, but that was the jist...either way, it cracked me up!
Hah yes! great line. i remember it as "haha it is not important if i am healthy, it is important that i am big and strong!" Though...now that i think of it, its been years since i've seen that clip..maybe i've been telling the story wrong all this time..
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Yes, I'll agree with that. No one can claim that running a few thousad grams a wk of AAS for long periods is all that healthy...not in the grand scheme of things. But since when are we talking about health, lol?
Speaking of bodybuilding and health. One of my favorite quotes concerning this was by Marcus Ruhl a few years back...it was in one of his videos. It was after a training session, and he walks out side and lights up a cigarette. Someone asked him, "why do you smoke? Isn't bodybuilding supposed to be about being healthy?" Marcus looked at the guy with a confused look and said "when did bodybuilding become healthy? It has nothing to do with health." I prob didn't quote that exactly word for word like he said it, but that was the jist...either way, it cracked me up!
Along the same line, a old Bill Phillips Quote: "At a BBing show, the most unhealthy people inthe place are on stage".
I'd also add though, that naturally meso-Type silverback dudes do best as BBers and are more likely to end up at high levels.
They can simply gut more of most anything. If it happens to be steroids and they weight train - Well we all know the results....
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There's a point more is like dumping gas down the side of the race car. It dont make it go faster. Its simply a fire hazard.
When all the receptors are full, more does nothing but invite side effects and no gains.
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When all the receptors are full, more does nothing but invite side effects and no gains.
No, it doesn't quite work this way. It's not like filling up your glycogen stores.
Granted, gains can halt on any given cycle, even if the drugs are what they are supposed to be and if training is right. But this is where other things start to come into play. In this instance, really you've got 3 choices:
1. Stop the cycle, stay off, refresh and plan for the next.
2. Stay on a little bit longer, try to solidify as much as you can...no more new gains, but cementing all the ones made to the full extent.
3. Final option, stay on cycle, but change the drugs being used.
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No, it doesn't quite work this way. It's not like filling up your glycogen stores.
Granted, gains can halt on any given cycle, even if the drugs are what they are supposed to be and if training is right. But this is where other things start to come into play. In this instance, really you've got 3 choices:
1. Stop the cycle, stay off, refresh and plan for the next.
2. Stay on a little bit longer, try to solidify as much as you can...no more new gains, but cementing all the ones made to the full extent.
3. Final option, stay on cycle, but change the drugs being used.
This is the part about staying on that can change your physiqe for the most. If you want to move up and make the most long term gains in your body you will need to stay on decent doses for a long time. When I say long I mean a year or more.
AJ I know Dave P has talked about this and has said that a certian amount of permenant growth may occur with long term use and proper diet and training, something with changes to the muscle fiber?
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This is the part about staying on that can change your physiqe for the most. If you want to move up and make the most long term gains in your body you will need to stay on decent doses for a long time. When I say long I mean a year or more.
AJ I know Dave P has talked about this and has said that a certian amount of permenant growth may occur with long term use and proper diet and training, something with changes to the muscle fiber?
Coming off and keeping its the deal. Thats a number of things. Come off slow, keep eating and lifting.
(Injuries shoot that to hell)
Now, about RECEPTORS ::)
The "RECEPTOR" Word is throw around like a frisbee by Hippie chicks and is even less important to BBing.
Chasing Frisbee could serve as cardio. Talking Receptors is pointless.
Ever seen a Receptor? ::) ;D
Guys want to talk receptors should get into some medical research texts. Most will be too dumb to comprehend, but they'd be in for surprise if they spent the time to learn. Forget about receptors.
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This is the part about staying on that can change your physiqe for the most. If you want to move up and make the most long term gains in your body you will need to stay on decent doses for a long time. When I say long I mean a year or more.
AJ I know Dave P has talked about this and has said that a certian amount of permenant growth may occur with long term use and proper diet and training, something with changes to the muscle fiber?
Well he's always talking about homeostasis and how hard it is to beat it so to speak. That and how when you are running a cycle, the new fibers that grow, grow on the outer portion of the muscle, at least at first they do. They are not cemented in down deep, which obviously makes it hard to keep. Of course then the body begs and pleads to return to homeostasis, so that new fiber passes away. So yeah, to beat homeostasis, or rather, change what homeostasis means for your body, it's going to take some time, some big cycles, come long cycles, and some more time. Things like HGH and IGF speed this up a great deal though.
Yes, some of this is similar to the "Set Point" theory trab likes talking about...similar, but not exactly the same thing IMO.
Coming off and keeping its the deal. Thats a number of things. Come off slow, keep eating and lifting.
(Injuries shoot that to hell)
OK, so I still disagree with you on this...I'm not a fan, nor do I see a need in the "coming off slow" approach...tapering and all that. Yes, I understand that when you all of the sudden go from 1000mg/wk/test to no test, it is a shock, but lets consider a few things.
* You've run a long cycle using long estered test. You stop injecting, wait and do pct in a wk or 2...so over that 2wks or so period, you still had some test floating around in there. With the tapering thing, you're simply slowing it down even more, more then needed, and simply preventing the inevitable.
* You've just run a hard diet w/drugs. Diets over, are you going to tapper for a few wks...fuck that shit, your body is already in a state of insanity...just come off, hit the HCG very hard and all the rest and float it out for about a month
Here's my thing. If you want big gains, run your cycles as long as you are willing to risk it...come off and get back on as soon as you can within realistic terms...short breaks in between...6-8wks max IMO ... more then averaged dosed PCT's...plain and simple, but not for most.
Now, about RECEPTORS ::)
The "RECEPTOR" Word is throw around like a frisbee by Hippie chicks and is even less important to BBing.
Chasing Frisbee could serve as cardio. Talking Receptors is pointless.
Ever seen a Receptor? ::) ;D
Guys want to talk receptors should get into some medical research texts. Most will be too dumb to comprehend, but they'd be in for surprise if they spent the time to learn. Forget about receptors.
haha, "receptor's" blah blah blah. Listening to people in these boards talk about receptors is like trying to listen to Hillary Clinton talk about "moral fortitude." It just doesn't make any sense, lol!
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i love the receptor theory too,,,, if u take any top level pro or amature, who competes at least once or twice a yr,,, how much time do u think theyd ever have off?... probly a few month in 5 or 6 yr if your lucky!
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i love the receptor theory too,,,, if u take any top level pro or amature, who competes at least once or twice a yr,,, how much time do u think theyd ever have off?... probly a few month in 5 or 6 yr if your lucky!
I think theres research that shows massive doses create new receptors, dont tell your receptors about it though. ;D
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i love the receptor theory too,,,, if u take any top level pro or amature, who competes at least once or twice a yr,,, how much time do u think theyd ever have off?... probly a few month in 5 or 6 yr if your lucky!
Yeah or when someone posts a photo of a pro with a shitty and ugly phsyique, poepple start makin stuff up like they've maxed out their receptors bla bla bla. Last time i checked, no one on getbig shrunk themselves into a little spaceship and flew into any pro bb's receptors to check it out.
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Yeah or when someone posts a photo of a pro with a shitty and ugly phsyique, poepple start makin stuff up like they've maxed out their receptors bla bla bla. Last time i checked, no one on getbig shrunk themselves into a little spaceship and flew into any pro bb's receptors to check it out.
The whole "receptor" claim is just another cop out a lot of people use. It's right up their with "I've reached my genetic potential."
....cry me a river :'(
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I'm going to keep this thread going as long as things keep popping into my mind. Feel free guys to make suggestions or add your own tid bits of truth. Hey, you may add something that many disagree with, but in the end if it is "TRUTH" it will be deemed so.
...more truth.
Todays instalment of "Truth" will be a little shorter, just a few "bullet" points that have come to mind. Again, most of what I post in this thread stems from various questions posed on this board on a regular basis, or from the emails and PM's I get. Actually, every point made in tonight's "bullet" points stems from PM's I've gotten and still get.
*There are no such things as "cutting" steroids.
*Taking steroids does not make you go bald...you were going to go bald anyway...it might speed up the process though.
*Drugs like Clenbuterol and Cytomel (t-3) are not anabolic androgenic steroids.
*Gains from AAS will not turn into fat after you stop using AAS...yes, I've gotten several PM's in regards to this.
*It is imposable to say how much weight you will gain or how much muscle you will put on from using AAS.
*Steroids do not burn fat. Diet, cardio and fat burners burn fat.
*Creatine is not a steroid
*Guys in your gym who talk about there champion cycles of things like triple-pro-tren and dbol are idiots.
*You cannot permanently shut down your natural test production from one cycle of AAS...I don't' care how big, how harsh or how long the cycle was.
*Injecting only into your glutes every single time is a very bad idea.
*Being on cycle is by no means a sure fire method of birth control...not even a little. I have several friends, with kids, who got their wife/girlfriend pregnant while on cycle.
*You can use deca, eq and tren in the same cycle.
*You can drink your winny
*No, you cannot drink your testosterone.
*Arnold jr. is a Champion!
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good advice there Arnold ;)
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I think theres research that shows massive doses create new receptors, dont tell your receptors about it though. ;D
Thats one of the questions I've had about the astounding (to me---like doses 5x more than I'd give a 1600 lb horse for performance enhancement) doses that are posted on some of the boards. The bodies response to anabolics are based on the function of the hormone testosterone, which has a limited number of binding sites on cells within the body. These drugs in essense work by binding to the same cellular receptors. To me, it seems as if you have to reach a limiting point where there is more hormone in the blood stream than there is sites for it to bind too---the body has a natural setpoint that it wont go past. Once that point is reached, no matter what you put into the body, you won't see "gains". The body simply increases production of means of breaking the excess down. Now it seems to me that there is an inherent level of variation among people for activity sites of the drugs/hormones. This is a simple explanation as to why some people can take human grade drugs and not gain as much as someone who's taking underdosed, underground, homebrewed shit.
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*Arnold jr. is a Champion!
Way to remove all credibility! :)
Jk
One more *More equals more!
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how about sight injections... in theory they make u grow, not in my experience tho, altho ive never shot 2 ml a day into my bi's and tris for 6 month
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Wow, and I thought I got some
stupid silly PMs ;D
No, Theres no dumb question, lots of young guys are freaked out and totally in the dark.
Read the crap they print inthe Media about "Steroids" ::)
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...more Truth!
Very short and to the point.
*****We need to start are own little "getbig group" to combat the idiocy of the rest of this board. Would be cool if the rest of the board, particularly the G&O section became a worthwhile place to post.
Thoughts?
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youl have to think up a name!
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I'm with you but i lack the time some of these guys have. i honestly think they have nothing better to do than make fun of others who are usually more successful than them. plus, i'm not too creative at internet ownings, i'm better in the real world confrontations.
8)
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...more Truth!
Very short and to the point.
*****We need to start are own little "getbig group" to combat the idiocy of the rest of this board. Would be cool if the rest of the board, particularly the G&O section became a worthwhile place to post.
Thoughts?
This section and nutrition is where I usually only hang out at because of the maturity level. I like the more mature attitude illustrated in the steroid board and would be burried in the G&O section. I am not good with childish name calling and immature kids who like Overload said, has nothing better to do than belittle people. But I agree, I would like to be in the "gang" AJ. Do I put on my red bandana now and drop my jeans to my knees??
However, they probably are a lot smaller than us so we need to confront them in person so they have a visual of who they are talking to! 8)
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I sometimes go into G&O when I'm really bored or there are no new posts on this or the Nutrition board. Generally there's just way too much nonsense going on in there for me to handle.
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It is pretty pathetic, The Punk factor here.... Local hero will have a BioHazard USA furum up and runing soon he says...
I like the Britts and have had a lot of fun with them, not sure what this site will be like but
the old Biohazard was cool and major hardcore.
There's A lot of hate for Borrenson in the states still even long after his death, but his idea of a "Mind Pool" of the best minds in BBing sharing knowledge about preformance enhancing drugs was cool.
PPL couldnt accept that the masive steroid doses he wrote of were real world.
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This section and nutrition is where I usually only hang out at because of the maturity level. I like the more mature attitude illustrated in the steroid board and would be burried in the G&O section. I am not good with childish name calling and immature kids who like Overload said, has nothing better to do than belittle people. But I agree, I would like to be in the "gang" AJ. Do I put on my red bandana now and drop my jeans to my knees??
However, they probably are a lot smaller than us so we need to confront them in person so they have a visual of who they are talking to! 8)
The idea would be to improve the board with quality post and threads...not to simply be another ass bag mouth running posse.
Even so, you'll have no choice but to drop your pants, lol!
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...more Truth!
Very short and to the point.
*****We need to start are own little "getbig group" to combat the idiocy of the rest of this board. Would be cool if the rest of the board, particularly the G&O section became a worthwhile place to post.
Thoughts?
Wouldnt that be sort of stooping to that level? Wouldnt it just be more of the same? Wouldnt it be playing right in to those hands? Wouldnt it be just adding fuel to the fire? you cant make people behave or act different on the net, other than through strong moderation and intolerance for the trolling and baiting.
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Wouldnt that be sort of stooping to that level? Wouldnt it just be more of the same? Wouldnt it be playing right in to those hands? Wouldnt it be just adding fuel to the fire? you cant make people behave or act different on the net, other than through strong moderation and intolerance for the trolling and baiting.
The idea would be to improve the board with quality post and threads...not to simply be another ass bag mouth running posse.
Even so, you'll have no choice but to drop your pants, lol!
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The idea would be to improve the board with quality post and threads...not to simply be another ass bag mouth running posse.
Even so, you'll have no choice but to drop your pants, lol!
Well, if Iam dropping my pants, good thing I am Italian! ;D
Count me in...
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let's keep this thread alive!!
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i just wanna add that when i started arnold jr helped me alot with my ridiculous beginner pm questions and always replied within a day. made great gains and thank arnold for his honesty and help. this just shows he has no life and is a getbig junkie... :P just messing around bro
honestly though, don't know the guy but dude is a legend with a great extent of knowledge and experience, everything should be arnold jr approved, haha
thanks again arnold
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I haven't used much human grade gear.. most of it has been either vet gear from mexico or home brew from china powder.
would these powders be considered good? I was able to get up to 240 using the powders.. mainly test e and deca. but I didn't have the hardened look that other gear gave me.
what is your guys opinion on the powder?
well it depends on if its legit powder or not, lol
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well, again, it owuld depend on the podwers. if your powders are usp grade, then they will be just as 'potent' as human grade gear would be.
but lets say yoru guy cut your powder with 20% flour (or some kind of filler). then you gear will be 20% less effective (20% less mg).
the idea that human grade is best is based off the fact that its sterile and accurately dosed and labeled.
many ug sell products that are innacurately dosed and/or labeled, and are unsteril.
if you get usp grade powder, and you dose it correctly, and brew it in a sterile fashion, then you now have human grade quality gear.
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here is some more truths:
clen does not work on asthmatics.
swallowing suspension Winny and oral Winny have different side effects - due to the fillers used in the pills.
if you want an oral winny and can get them - swallow the glass vial suspensions. 8)
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i just wanna add that when i started arnold jr helped me alot with my ridiculous beginner pm questions and always replied within a day. made great gains and thank arnold for his honesty and help. this just shows he has no life and is a getbig junkie... :P just messing around bro
honestly though, don't know the guy but dude is a legend with a great extent of knowledge and experience, everything should be arnold jr approved, haha
thanks again arnold
A little bit of a combo of working online a lot and no life, lol!
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But I’ve noticed a pattern for a while that has bothered me a little. Guys will come on here in the beginning asking the basic questions we all ask and as time goes by, their questions begin to evolve. As they evolve themselves into more sound bodybuilders and more educated individuals when it comes to the topic of performance enhancing drugs, there is one key flaw that seems to prevail.
I've been a Moderator here longer than all of you......
I said this very thing a long time ago and I don't answer newbie questions for the most part.
You've finally caught up to the curve.
I've deleted the trolls since the beginning.......
DIV
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I've been a Moderator here longer than all of you......
I said this very thing a long time ago and I don't answer newbie questions for the most part.
You've finally caught up to the curve.
I've deleted the trolls since the beginning.......
DIV
I don't mind answering newbie questions...I don't answer them all either. It's simply that as time goes by, either the question remain the same by the same people because they refuse to listen. I don't think it's simply a refusal to listen just to be stubborn, I think most are afraid of the truth and don't like what they hear. The AAS game when it comes to making serious progress is a game of chance and risk...although it should be well thought out calculated risk...most cannot deal with that.
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I say if you want to do steroids go all the way or none! Maybe I will try 3 grams eventually if I have enough money fuck it!!!
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here is some more truths:
clen does not work on asthmatics.
swallowing suspension Winny and oral Winny have different side effects - due to the fillers used in the pills.
if you want an oral winny and can get them - swallow the glass vial suspensions. 8)
I've been trying to find info on clen with asthmatics for a while. So for BBing purposes (in this case it would apply to a female figure competitor) Clen is a no no if you have asthma? Is that because it doesn't work or because it can conflict with other asthma meds that are already being taken?
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I don't mind answering newbie questions...I don't answer them all either. It's simply that as time goes by, either the question remain the same by the same people because they refuse to listen. I don't think it's simply a refusal to listen just to be stubborn, I think most are afraid of the truth and don't like what they hear. The AAS game when it comes to making serious progress is a game of chance and risk...although it should be well thought out calculated risk...most cannot deal with that.
Of course it's a dice game, Arnold.
I've said that shit from the beginning.
Everyone want's the safe easy way out........but it's not like that.
You're either ALL IN -or- ALL OUT. :-X
DIV
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I've been trying to find info on clen with asthmatics for a while. So for BBing purposes (in this case it would apply to a female figure competitor) Clen is a no no if you have asthma? Is that because it doesn't work or because it can conflict with other asthma meds that are already being taken?
it works for the effects of breathing i.e. still relaxes the smooth muscle for a few days at a time, but it has zero metabolism boosting/fat burning effects, due to receptor burnout ?
stick with standard ventolin / salbutamol inhaler.
the up side is ephedrine works better. 8)
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it works for the effects of breathing i.e. still relaxes the smooth muscle for a few days at a time, but it has zero metabolism boosting/fat burning effects, due to receptor burnout ?
stick with standard ventolin / salbutamol inhaler.
the up side is ephedrine works better. 8)
.......and if ya' don't know, know ya' know, nugga! ;D
DIV
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it works for the effects of breathing i.e. still relaxes the smooth muscle for a few days at a time, but it has zero metabolism boosting/fat burning effects, due to receptor burnout ?
stick with standard ventolin / salbutamol inhaler.
the up side is ephedrine works better. 8)
they are all beta agonists and thus they all will be less than effective in beta agonist using asthmatics
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it works for the effects of breathing i.e. still relaxes the smooth muscle for a few days at a time, but it has zero metabolism boosting/fat burning effects, due to receptor burnout ?
stick with standard ventolin / salbutamol inhaler.
the up side is ephedrine works better. 8)
Exactly the answer I was looking for. Thanks.