Author Topic: The Truth  (Read 17566 times)

atr911

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2007, 10:39:04 PM »
less does not equal more.... this has been proven time and time again.   More equals more, less equals less.  Not to sound like an ass, but what kind of retarded statement is 'less equals more' when study upon study show that gains in size and strength are directly proportional to dosage.

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busyB

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2007, 09:39:31 AM »
less does not equal more.... this has been proven time and time again.   More equals more, less equals less.  Not to sound like an ass, but what kind of retarded statement is 'less equals more' when study upon study show that gains in size and strength are directly proportional to dosage.



Can you post or referance said study?

Quite honestly, I know guys that use small amounts and make great progress. Genetics has a lot to do with how well one responds to gear.

local hero

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2007, 12:18:59 PM »
totaly brutaly honest post... u cant turn into a monster playing it safe, do the same things and expect to say the same!!!

Arnold jr

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2007, 02:34:50 PM »
totaly brutaly honest post... u cant turn into a monster playing it safe, do the same things and expect to say the same!!!
Well, that's Arnold jr. for you, lol!

on one

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2007, 03:45:30 PM »
not exactly what i meant.. i meant if you can get by with less its a good thing...get it

atr911

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2007, 09:44:23 PM »
Can you post or referance said study?

Quite honestly, I know guys that use small amounts and make great progress. Genetics has a lot to do with how well one responds to gear.

check the www.steroid.com profile of test. i am too lazy to find it.
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Re: The Truth
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2007, 12:06:12 AM »
I would honestly say genetics are the most important. take capriese murray for example he was massive and huge and just ate 2 meals a day.. he started working with john O-reagon and he started eating 6 times a day got better with hormone usage and site injections and bam he was a pro in less than 2 yrs.. genetics are def the biggest key... their are guys out there who could easily be mr.olympia if they decided to use the right hormones and get into the shadey life of a bodybuilder.. Dorian Yates probably did more injections than any bodybuilder ever. from what I know the guy was a pin cushion sometimes doing 10-20 shots of diffrent goodies daily and heavily into site injecting... I can barely do 2-3 shots a week so I know the reality of competing is dim... truth is dont do steroids unless your over 20, have at least 4-5 yrs of training under your belt and can actually handle some decent weight with good form. if your benching 250pds or less or cant do squats with 300-400 pds steroids probably are not for you because I know guys who do that naturally with ease!

Arnold jr

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2007, 10:08:27 AM »
I would honestly say genetics are the most important. take capriese murray for example he was massive and huge and just ate 2 meals a day.. he started working with john O-reagon and he started eating 6 times a day got better with hormone usage and site injections and bam he was a pro in less than 2 yrs.. genetics are def the biggest key... their are guys out there who could easily be mr.olympia if they decided to use the right hormones and get into the shadey life of a bodybuilder.. Dorian Yates probably did more injections than any bodybuilder ever. from what I know the guy was a pin cushion sometimes doing 10-20 shots of diffrent goodies daily and heavily into site injecting... I can barely do 2-3 shots a week so I know the reality of competing is dim... truth is dont do steroids unless your over 20, have at least 4-5 yrs of training under your belt and can actually handle some decent weight with good form. if your benching 250pds or less or cant do squats with 300-400 pds steroids probably are not for you because I know guys who do that naturally with ease!
I've always heard that about Capriese Murray too, but it's hard to believe IMO.

...hey white, come on, only 2-3 pins a wk? You can man up for more then that...talk to me when you start pinning 2x/ed every day, lol

local hero

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2007, 11:19:33 AM »
dorian never disscussed his gear usage,,, all the brit pros would talk about it openly at seminars but he would state that he used them but wouldnt discuss them.... love to know how people have all this knoledge on what he did in that case!


i agree with the popundage statement too, if you cant squat 3 or 4 plates a side with out gear your waisting your time filling your self full of drugs

Arnold jr

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2007, 11:43:32 PM »
More truth from Arnold jr.

OK, so we've discussed what it takes to truly be a monster in terms of drug protocol...not to the point of extreme dissecting, but just an understanding of what it takes. Now we'll talk about the drugs themselves. Not what to use or not to use or how much to use, but rather where you get them from.

Most of you are familiar with the poster on this board GH15, and most of you are aware that he and I have definitely had our share of disagreements. Even so, there is one thing that he is always preaching and I agree with him 100%. Under Ground Labs are a waste and you will never reach your full potential or get any where near freak size by using them.

Let me explain some things. I see guys all the time, guys that have been using and cycling AAS for several years. But most of these guys never really make the kinds of gains they should be making using performance enhancing drugs. Just to clarify, I'm talking about guys who actually train and eat right, not the gym rat that we all label the "idiot" of the gym...every gym has them.

Now, these guys I speak of, when they did their first cycle, they made some pretty good gains using UGL gear. Like most UGL gear, it was more then likely under-dosed significantly, or not what it said it was...it's not uncommon for UGL's to sell a huge list of items, but in reality, every item in the vile is just under-dosed test...at least we hope it's at least test and not vegetable oil or some bacteria infested oil. Even so, these guys made decent gains because even the slightest bit of anabolics entering the body,  anyone will grow your first time...it doesn't take much.

But then the growth almost stops all together. They get on a new cycle, and they continually add more and more MG' per wk to the cycles...each cycle is bigger then the last because they are so desperate to make gains. They do end up gaining a little, because even though they are good and smart guys when it comes to training and nutrition, they still inevitably push it a little harder when "on." But the gains are minimal, and could have been reached more then likely without the new cycle.

They get frustrated and make claims like maybe their receptors are simply fired from all the years of use. Or maybe it's just that they don't have great genetics. Sorry guys, this is a lie if you believe it...it simply does not work that way...not to this extent.

So what's the root of the problem? Simple, most are not using good gear...that's it. When you use good gear, you should grow a good deal, and this should happen every single time you cycle. True, you may never grow like you did the first time you cycle, but you shouldn't be making minimal gains either.

Now, I'm not going to stand up here on my soap box and make a bunch of hypocritical statements. I've used my share of UGL gear...I've used some junk. I've been suckered in by "low prices." After all, who likes spending more money then they have to. But ask yourself this, would you rather pay a little more for 100% good gear, or would you rather save a few bucks for gear that is, well, who knows what it is?

Granted, there are a few decent UGL's out there...not many though, and most of the decent domestic UGL's are long gone. You guys all know I was a big supporter of the late GPL, only UGL I ever supported or considered to be legitimate. But guess what, GPL didn't simply supply UGL gear, GPL also carried a full line of licensed human grade gear as well. GPL, if you knew him well enough, would even go as far as to send you both his UGL blend of a product as well as the human grade equivalent to see if you thought they matched up. They didn't every time, but they usually did, and if they didn't match up it would still be pretty close. But to find someone like this again, to find another GPL, good luck, cause it's a long shot...a really long shot.

The point of this long post, use human grade gear. Use human grade gear and watch yourself grow. Use UGL gear and remain the same size you are now. It's your call.

Beener

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2007, 12:17:13 AM »
People talk lots about UGLs and HG but whats your opinion on vet grade gear?

Thanks

local hero

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2007, 05:16:34 AM »
vet grade and human grade are made in the same places under the same conditions...

Luv2Hurt

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2007, 05:54:47 AM »
less does not equal more.... this has been proven time and time again.   More equals more, less equals less.  Not to sound like an ass, but what kind of retarded statement is 'less equals more' when study upon study show that gains in size and strength are directly proportional to dosage.



I would have to agree how could less equal more?  Very good point to make.  People like to beleive that less is more cause it makes them feel OK about being cautious and that is cool, cause cautious is smart.

But you will not get the same gains on 400mg EW of test that you would on 1200mg its just that simple.  Just like a six pack of brew will get you buzzed up but a 12 pack will have you wasted.  On the flip side the day after you will feel better if you stopped at 6.  :-\

trab

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2007, 06:26:02 AM »
I would have to agree how could less equal more?  Very good point to make.  People like to beleive that less is more cause it makes them feel OK about being cautious and that is cool, cause cautious is smart.

But you will not get the same gains on 400mg EW of test that you would on 1200mg its just that simple.  Just like a six pack of brew will get you buzzed up but a 12 pack will have you wasted.  On the flip side the day after you will feel better if you stopped at 6.  :-\

I agree, but there's also a point high dose makes ya feel like crap. That is counterproductive.
My feel is that BP is one of the easiest marks to see your going too far.
That dont mean you cant do harm with a dose in normal BP range, but on big androgen loads its the thing to watch.

Everyone who uses should get a moniter and learn to use it. HAVING SOme BP meds on hand if you go to far on long acting androgen also. A rare trip to the Dr is NOT ENOUGH, and often gives distorted readings then anyway.

Theres a point more is simply a waste. It takes a strong horse of a guy to handle some of these cycles commonly thrown around here, and truth is lots of theis UG Who-Knows-What-aBol is drasticly underdosed at best.

I tell ya what, 1000mg of test & 400 Deca should make itself known! No question about it.
Thats about all I care for myself at the most.
There's several guys here that know real deal, but many that pop in here are clueless as to what real steriod act like at those doses.

There's a point more is like dumping gas down the side of the race car. It dont make it go faster. Its simply a fire hazard.

Arnold jr

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2007, 12:40:12 PM »
I would have to agree how could less equal more?  Very good point to make.  People like to beleive that less is more cause it makes them feel OK about being cautious and that is cool, cause cautious is smart.

But you will not get the same gains on 400mg EW of test that you would on 1200mg its just that simple.  Just like a six pack of brew will get you buzzed up but a 12 pack will have you wasted.  On the flip side the day after you will feel better if you stopped at 6.  :-\
The old "less equals more" argument. Most ridiculous statement in the world when you're talking about AAS...it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Like trab said, "more" equals "more" potential problems, but it still equals more gains too.

on one

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2007, 01:17:23 PM »
genetics def help like south pacific islanders are sooo jacked they wouldnt have to do much juice to get nutty and thats what i mean by if you can do less juice its a good thing for health reasons not for size but health

Arnold jr

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2007, 08:31:13 PM »
genetics def help like south pacific islanders are sooo jacked they wouldnt have to do much juice to get nutty and thats what i mean by if you can do less juice its a good thing for health reasons not for size but health
Yes, I'll agree with that. No one can claim that running a few thousad grams a wk of AAS for long periods is all that healthy...not in the grand scheme of things. But since when are we talking about health, lol?

Speaking of bodybuilding and health. One of my favorite quotes concerning this was by Marcus Ruhl a few years back...it was in one of his videos. It was after a training session, and he walks out side and lights up a cigarette. Someone asked him, "why do you smoke? Isn't bodybuilding supposed to be about being healthy?" Marcus looked at the guy with a confused look and said "when did bodybuilding become healthy? It has nothing to do with health." I prob didn't quote that exactly word for word like he said it, but that was the jist...either way, it cracked me up!

Beener

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2007, 10:46:39 PM »
Yes, I'll agree with that. No one can claim that running a few thousad grams a wk of AAS for long periods is all that healthy...not in the grand scheme of things. But since when are we talking about health, lol?

Speaking of bodybuilding and health. One of my favorite quotes concerning this was by Marcus Ruhl a few years back...it was in one of his videos. It was after a training session, and he walks out side and lights up a cigarette. Someone asked him, "why do you smoke? Isn't bodybuilding supposed to be about being healthy?" Marcus looked at the guy with a confused look and said "when did bodybuilding become healthy? It has nothing to do with health." I prob didn't quote that exactly word for word like he said it, but that was the jist...either way, it cracked me up!

Hah yes! great line. i remember it as "haha it is not important if i am healthy, it is important that i am big and strong!" Though...now that i think of it, its been years since i've seen that clip..maybe i've been telling the story wrong all this time..

trab

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2007, 03:22:21 AM »
Yes, I'll agree with that. No one can claim that running a few thousad grams a wk of AAS for long periods is all that healthy...not in the grand scheme of things. But since when are we talking about health, lol?

Speaking of bodybuilding and health. One of my favorite quotes concerning this was by Marcus Ruhl a few years back...it was in one of his videos. It was after a training session, and he walks out side and lights up a cigarette. Someone asked him, "why do you smoke? Isn't bodybuilding supposed to be about being healthy?" Marcus looked at the guy with a confused look and said "when did bodybuilding become healthy? It has nothing to do with health." I prob didn't quote that exactly word for word like he said it, but that was the jist...either way, it cracked me up!

Along the same line, a old Bill Phillips Quote: "At a BBing show, the most unhealthy people inthe place are on stage".

I'd also add though, that naturally meso-Type silverback dudes do best as BBers and are more likely to end up at high levels.
They can simply gut more of most anything. If it happens to be steroids and they weight train - Well we all know the results....

 

sync pulse

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2007, 10:50:51 PM »

There's a point more is like dumping gas down the side of the race car. It dont make it go faster. Its simply a fire hazard.
When all the receptors are full, more does nothing but invite side effects and no gains.

Arnold jr

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2007, 11:10:37 PM »
When all the receptors are full, more does nothing but invite side effects and no gains.
No, it doesn't quite work this way. It's not like filling up your glycogen stores.

Granted, gains can halt on any given cycle, even if the drugs are what they are supposed to be and if training is right. But this is where other things start to come into play. In this instance, really you've got 3 choices:

1. Stop the cycle, stay off, refresh and plan for the next.

2. Stay on a little bit longer, try to solidify as much as you can...no more new gains, but cementing all the ones made to the full extent.

3. Final option, stay on cycle, but change the drugs being used.

Luv2Hurt

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2007, 04:46:58 AM »
No, it doesn't quite work this way. It's not like filling up your glycogen stores.

Granted, gains can halt on any given cycle, even if the drugs are what they are supposed to be and if training is right. But this is where other things start to come into play. In this instance, really you've got 3 choices:

1. Stop the cycle, stay off, refresh and plan for the next.

2. Stay on a little bit longer, try to solidify as much as you can...no more new gains, but cementing all the ones made to the full extent.

3. Final option, stay on cycle, but change the drugs being used.

This is the part about staying on that can change your physiqe for the most.  If you want to move up and make the most long term gains in your body you will need to stay on decent doses for a long time.  When I say long I mean a year or more.

AJ I know Dave P has talked about this and has said that a certian amount of permenant growth may occur with long term use and proper diet and training, something with changes to the muscle fiber?


trab

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2007, 04:57:43 AM »
This is the part about staying on that can change your physiqe for the most.  If you want to move up and make the most long term gains in your body you will need to stay on decent doses for a long time.  When I say long I mean a year or more.

AJ I know Dave P has talked about this and has said that a certian amount of permenant growth may occur with long term use and proper diet and training, something with changes to the muscle fiber?



Coming off and keeping its the deal. Thats a number of things. Come off slow, keep eating and lifting.
(Injuries shoot that to hell)


Now, about RECEPTORS  ::)
The "RECEPTOR" Word is throw around like a frisbee by Hippie chicks and is even less important to BBing.
Chasing Frisbee could serve as cardio. Talking Receptors is pointless.

Ever seen a Receptor?  ::)  ;D

Guys want to talk receptors should get into some medical research texts. Most will be too dumb to comprehend, but they'd be in for surprise if they spent the time to learn. Forget about receptors.

Arnold jr

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2007, 11:00:12 AM »
This is the part about staying on that can change your physiqe for the most.  If you want to move up and make the most long term gains in your body you will need to stay on decent doses for a long time.  When I say long I mean a year or more.

AJ I know Dave P has talked about this and has said that a certian amount of permenant growth may occur with long term use and proper diet and training, something with changes to the muscle fiber?


Well he's always talking about homeostasis and how hard it is to beat it so to speak. That and how when you are running a cycle, the new fibers that grow, grow on the outer portion of the muscle, at least at first they do. They are not cemented in down deep, which obviously makes it hard to keep. Of course then the body begs and pleads to return to homeostasis, so that new fiber passes away. So yeah, to beat homeostasis, or rather, change what homeostasis means for your body, it's going to take some time, some big cycles, come long cycles, and some more time. Things like HGH and IGF speed this up a great deal though.

Yes, some of this is similar to the "Set Point" theory trab likes talking about...similar, but not exactly the same thing IMO.


Coming off and keeping its the deal. Thats a number of things. Come off slow, keep eating and lifting.
(Injuries shoot that to hell)
OK, so I still disagree with you on this...I'm not a fan, nor do I see a need in the "coming off slow" approach...tapering and all that. Yes, I understand that when you all of the sudden go from 1000mg/wk/test to no test, it is a shock, but lets consider a few things.

* You've run a long cycle using long estered test. You stop injecting, wait and do pct in a wk or 2...so over that 2wks or so period, you still had some test floating around in there. With the tapering thing, you're simply slowing it down even more, more then needed, and simply preventing the inevitable.

* You've just run a hard diet w/drugs. Diets over, are you going to tapper for a few wks...fuck that shit, your body is already in a state of insanity...just come off, hit the HCG very hard and all the rest and float it out for about a month

Here's my thing. If you want big gains, run your cycles as long as you are willing to risk it...come off and get back on as soon as you can within realistic terms...short breaks in between...6-8wks max IMO ... more then averaged dosed PCT's...plain and simple, but not for most.






Now, about RECEPTORS  ::)
The "RECEPTOR" Word is throw around like a frisbee by Hippie chicks and is even less important to BBing.
Chasing Frisbee could serve as cardio. Talking Receptors is pointless.

Ever seen a Receptor?  ::)  ;D

Guys want to talk receptors should get into some medical research texts. Most will be too dumb to comprehend, but they'd be in for surprise if they spent the time to learn. Forget about receptors.
haha, "receptor's" blah blah blah. Listening to people in these boards talk about receptors is like trying to listen to Hillary Clinton talk about "moral fortitude." It just doesn't make any sense, lol!

local hero

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Re: The Truth
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2007, 11:23:45 AM »
i love the receptor theory too,,,, if u take any top level pro or amature, who competes at least once or twice a yr,,, how much time do u think theyd ever have off?... probly a few month in 5 or 6 yr if your lucky!