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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: pellius on November 22, 2007, 03:02:03 PM
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As I understand it, insulin shuttles nutrients into the cells. So, depending on insulin sensitivity, if you eat x amount of carbs your pancreas produces y amount of insulin. And if you eat x + 10x of carbs you will produce y + 10y of insulin. So, assuming you're healthy, your body will always produce sufficient amounts of insulin to process the food that you eat. The more food you eat the more insulin you produce. So how does adding addition insulin have any effect except perhaps suppress your own production? I mean, if you eat x amount of carbs why would having 100x amount of insulin in your system have any anabolic effect?
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heh.
Nobody seems to know....everybody is always yelling that insulin did that and insulin that - but nobody seems to know why insulin would give a shit... Stop acting like fucking doctors if you don't know a shit about anything
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heh.
Nobody seems to know....everybody is always yelling that insulin did that and insulin that - but nobody seems to know why insulin would give a shit... Stop acting like fucking doctors if you don't know a shit about anything
True, why it seems to work for some is unknown, especially at the low dosage ranges.
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heh.
Nobody seems to know....everybody is always yelling that insulin did that and insulin that - but nobody seems to know why insulin would give a shit... Stop acting like fucking doctors if you don't know a shit about anything
That's blasphemy! Gh15 knows. He knows all. Perhaps I will PM him.
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milos apprently is the guru in it's use for anabolic/anti-catabolic purposes so you may wish to pm him.
trying to stimulate it naturally won't make much of a difference, but if you're thinking about using it for bbing purposes, you'd be well advised to get the best advice on it otherwise you'll probably end up very fat or possibly dead.
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milos apprently is the guru in it's use for anabolic/anti-catabolic purposes so you may wish to pm him.
trying to stimulate it naturally won't make much of a difference, but if you're thinking about using it for bbing purposes, you'd be well advised to get the best advice on it otherwise you'll probably end up very fat or possibly dead.
I thought Milos was persona non grata on this board. Plus, I'm not sure if he'd be as honest as gh15. And don't worry about me with insulin. I experimented (unsuccessfully) a while back. When I got my slin in the mail it was warm since I live in a hot climate. I wasn't sure if it still was good so I pinned myself with 5ius and see what would happen. After breaking out in a cold sweat (my whole body was dripping) I managed to down 16 ounces of apple juice that I dumped a half a cup of sugar in before I would pass out. I started to recover within minutes. So I figure everything was good. So you see, I know my way around slin and a 29 gauge needle. I got it all under control.
All under controll.
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I thought Milos was persona non grata on this board. Plus, I'm not sure if he'd be as honest as gh15. And don't worry about me with insulin. I experimented (unsuccessfully) a while back. When I got my slin in the mail it was warm since I live in a hot climate. I wasn't sure if it still was good so I pinned myself with 5ius and see what would happen. After breaking out in a cold sweat (my whole body was dripping) I managed to down 16 ounces of apple juice that I dumped a half a cup of sugar in before I would pass out. I started to recover within minutes. So I figure everything was good. So you see, I know my way around slin and a 29 gauge needle. I got it all under control.
All under controll.
lol
yes, that is one of the things i've seen. lucky you got the sugar in before you passed out.
re Milos: he treats this board with contempt most of the time. he only come here when he's trying to sell something, whoring promoting one of his bbers or his training methods.
having said that, yes he most definitely knows a lot about pharmaceutical insulin as a ped. if for no other reason than the fact that he has used and been around users for this purpose for a long time. essentially, he has performed many experiements with himself and other bbers and he has witnessesd and listened first hand. he is his own laboratory with him and the other bbers the rats so he has had direct feedback every time. imagine if you could do an experiment using a lab rat and that rat could tell you in plain english what exactly was occurring or, better yet, you're the rat.
the exact same situation exists and has existed for many years about anabolic steroids. scientists would tell you they don't work or, even if they do, you should use about 100mg of a fortnight, etc. the bbers (lab rats) themseves will tell you this is bs because they have done the experiements over and over and no what works best through trial and error.
the big problem with these drugs is that there is simply very little research done that has not been destroyed ie there was significant case studies done by communist east germany, russia and other soviet countries, but most of that has been destroyed or has become invalid ie some drugs don't exist anymore with the same components and reseasrch hasn't been update ie empiracle data on long term effects on athletes and variances between receptor uptake etc.
so, in essence, for the purposes of bbing only (as opposed to diabetes) Milos has somewhat of a market here. only issue for him is legality, otherwise he would be advertising the stuff BIG TIME. instead, he comes out with utter bullshit ie kns sugar products designed to boost insulin naturally and instigate anabolism. he knows very well that this bs otherwise 1. he and other bbers would never need to use illegal prescription insulin 2. america would have the leanest and most muscularly massive inhabitants in the world if this were true 3. Milos would be a billionaire 4. diabetes sufferers would rejoice (no more injections) 5. soft drinks would become a health tonic and really could make you jump higher than Michael Jordan :D.
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instead, he comes out with utter bullshit ie kns sugar products designed to boost insulin naturally and instigate anabolism. he knows very well that this bs otherwise 1. he and other bbers would never need to use illegal prescription insulin 2. america would have the leanest and most muscularly massive inhabitants in the world if this were true 3. Milos would be a billionaire 4. diabetes sufferers would rejoice (no more injections) 5. soft drinks would become a health tonic and really could make you jump higher than Michael Jordan :D.
The comparison to diabetics isn't really fair since they can't produce insulin. In theory it would be reasonable to say that you could get the same result from simply eating to release more. The reason is that the dosages most bodybuilders use are well within physiological ranges. You can easily eat to release much more insulin than what a typical 10IU shot provides. You can release the equivalent of 10IU by eating a candy bar. This is not the case with steroids or even GH where the dosage is out of physiological range. This is the "mystery" of why some report amazing results with it. Is it simply because they eat more on it or is it doing something else? Much higher dosages? Because I didn't find it effective and I've seen a few dozen guys use it and they didn't get the 30lb increase either.
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The comparison to diabetics isn't really fair since they can't produce insulin. In theory it would be reasonable to say that you could get the same result from simply eating to release more. The reason is that the dosages most bodybuilders use are well within physiological ranges. You can easily eat to release much more insulin than what a typical 10IU shot provides. You can release the equivalent of 10IU by eating a candy bar. This is not the case with steroids or even GH where the dosage is out of physiological range. This is the "mystery" of why some report amazing results with it. Is it simply because they eat more on it or is it doing something else? Much higher dosages? Because I didn't find it effective and I've seen a few dozen guys use it and they didn't get the 30lb increase either.
yes, you're in a better position than me if you have actually experimented with the drugs but, from what people have told me, this is often the case and it needs to be used in conjunction with the other drugs you've stated, otherwise you'll just get fat.
unfortunately, there are not too many gurus (those with the most research) that will give you the heads up without getting paid well.
Milos will tell you that, even at his advanced age (when hormone levels naturally decrease) he is able to mainatin ripped condition at 255lbs with just insulin and no hormones whatsoever. this doesn't make any sense at all to me and, frankly, i don't believe him, but who am i to give the absolute answer on that. maybe in 20 years time the truth will be available to everyone free such as how devout Christian ('i would never lie, honest') Larry Scott did actually take dianabol and other steroids in the 50s and 60s and there was a little more to those 20" guns than blairs milk powder and preacher curls.
no top level athlete is going to just give you info like this for free, not while other top athletes are scrambling to pay top dollar for it. most likely you will be fed bs as always with some underlying hype about their latest snake oil invention.
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The reason is that the dosages most bodybuilders use are well within physiological ranges. You can easily eat to release much more insulin than what a typical 10IU shot provides. You can release the equivalent of 10IU by eating a candy bar. This is not the case with steroids or even GH where the dosage is out of physiological range. This is the "mystery" of why some report amazing results with it. Is it simply because they eat more on it or is it doing something else? Much higher dosages? Because I didn't find it effective and I've seen a few dozen guys use it and they didn't get the 30lb increase either.
10iu can be duplicated with a candy bar? You sure bout that one bud? haha id like to hear why you believe that
People grow on slin because they use it correctly. The right time, the right dose, the right type, with the right nutrients. Il throw you a bone.....
Body builds a tolerance to exo. slin very fast. Answer? EOD dosing. Now this can and should be done multiple times per day for optimal results (god i hope some kid doesnt kill himself with this advice). Optimal times are preworkout meal (load the muscles full for the pending workout), and post workout (reload muscles full for anabolic, hydrated environment). It also has SHBG lowering effects, hence freeing up more test (natural or otherwise) able to be utalized for growth while the slin remains in your system.
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You can release the equivalent of 10IU by eating a candy bar.
::)
If this were true, you would probably go into a coma.
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Milos is 255 and hard at almost 44 years of age. Amazing.
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10iu can be duplicated with a candy bar? You sure bout that one bud? haha id like to hear why you believe that
People grow on slin because they use it correctly. The right time, the right dose, the right type, with the right nutrients. Il throw you a bone.....
Body builds a tolerance to exo. slin very fast. Answer? EOD dosing. Now this can and should be done multiple times per day for optimal results (god i hope some kid doesnt kill himself with this advice). Optimal times are preworkout meal (load the muscles full for the pending workout), and post workout (reload muscles full for anabolic, hydrated environment). It also has SHBG lowering effects, hence freeing up more test (natural or otherwise) able to be utalized for growth while the slin remains in your system.
You can laugh all you want but your understanding of drugs is very poor as I've seen on promuscle. Think about this, bro: injectable insulin is made to mimic endogenous insulin. Diabetics inject differing amounts of insulin, true, but most don't have to eat an absolutely massive amount to cover 10IU's. We both know some bodybuilders can get away with only 5 grams of sugar per IU to cover that amount. Now how many carbs does a candy bar contain? And yes, this specific candy bar example comes from a study where insulin output was measured in healthy folks and then compared to the levels achieved with Humalog. Again, drugs like Humalog were made to mimic what a healthy person would release naturally.
And tolerance doesn't necessarily develop very fast. If it did it would stop working very fast in diabetics. You know Milos also said he uses it each and every workout when in serious training. And I'm sure he doesn't rest every other day. No, it's twice daily workouts even. Maybe you can give your "optimal" advice to Milos. ::)
And the SHBG thing is pretty irrelevant to a person on anabolics. SHBG is already low if you take steroids.
::)
If this were true, you would probably go into a coma.
Why would it? The sugar in the candy bar covers the insulin released.
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Hmm, few things that got me thinking. Van, when you say that the comparison to diabetics isn't fair I think that's only the case with a type one diabetic that doesn't produce any insulin naturally and not in the case of a type 2 diabetic that develops insulin resistance (from a life time of constantly eating and snacking and always having insulin in their system). Since a type 2 diabetic requires more insulin than a healthy person to process a given unit of carbohydrate then it seems to me that for a healthy person to inject himself with insulin after eating only seems to be mimicking the condition of a type 2 diabetic, i.e., using more insulin than is normal to process a given unit of carbohydrate.
Also, when TooPowerful says that the optimal times to take insulin is pre and post workout for the load and reload effect again this comes back to my original question as to why you need addition insulin for that purpose. If you have a normal, healthy pancreas wouldn't ingesting a given amount of carbs, whether 50 grams or a 150 grams still be "loaded/reloaded" with the insulin you naturally produce? Are you implying that given a certain amount of carbs ingested a person runs out of insulin and the carbs/glucose doesn't get processed? Does the insulin shot simply take over the job of the pancreas and gives it a "rest" so that there's less of a metabolic cost to glucose processing resulting in more anabolism as some have suggested? I've also read that shooting additional insulin speeds up the shuttling of nutrients. But so what. What real world difference would it make if the nutrients get to your cells a little bit faster? It's not like you're going to start building muscle on the spot.
Milos?
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milos shed some light please :-)
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Milos, speak on this!
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I remember reading an article on the ketogenic diet using insulin... in some anabolic review. I knew a kid who tried it, got freaky shredded and won his show (amatuer)-- but he did say that he was driving and passed out into a coma crashed his car. Insulin is kinda foriegn for me... I had a training partner that used it and said the best kind was the short acting. I don't know what the high limits are to insulin are in the human body but obviously it can be increased beyond natural capasity (which is why a bodybuilder would use it-duh). I doubt the claim that insulin alone can get anyone shredded because insulin is for gaining muscle, along with water... seeing that for every carbohydrate you eat you hold 3 molecules of water. If you break down the systems, your question can be answered... I've trained will top level pro's that take it very seriously as a part of their regimine.
but that's all I can really add on this one.
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Milos, speak on this!
According to Milos's web:
He is in Italy's seminar now and will be back monday - 11/26/07
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According to Milos's web:
He is in Italy's seminar now and will be back monday - 11/26/07
謝謝!!
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Milos is 255 and hard at almost 44 years of age. Amazing.
what are you saying? are you suggesting that getting it up is a rare ocurrence at that age?
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You can laugh all you want but your understanding of drugs is very poor as I've seen on promuscle. Think about this, bro: injectable insulin is made to mimic endogenous insulin. Diabetics inject differing amounts of insulin, true, but most don't have to eat an absolutely massive amount to cover 10IU's. We both know some bodybuilders can get away with only 5 grams of sugar per IU to cover that amount. Now how many carbs does a candy bar contain? And yes, this specific candy bar example comes from a study where insulin output was measured in healthy folks and then compared to the levels achieved with Humalog. Again, drugs like Humalog were made to mimic what a healthy person would release naturally.
And tolerance doesn't necessarily develop very fast. If it did it would stop working very fast in diabetics. You know Milos also said he uses it each and every workout when in serious training. And I'm sure he doesn't rest every other day. No, it's twice daily workouts even. Maybe you can give your "optimal" advice to Milos. ::)
And the SHBG thing is pretty irrelevant to a person on anabolics. SHBG is already low if you take steroids.
Why would it? The sugar in the candy bar covers the insulin released.
lol well well well... is it now? While your post is intelligent and alot of what you said is true......
Yes, exo slin mimics endo....but at what dose? You really think your body can release a dose comperable to 10iu? Go grab a glucometer and youl figure this one out quick. Many that i know already have done this. One of my best friends is a diabetic for the last 10yrs that iv known him. I know how it works, both in bodybuilders and diabetics. Yes, Milos probably uses it every workout, but at what doses, and how often does he increase them? You have NO idea what dose he might be using, so you missed that little point. Your body can and will build a tolerance. The more slin you use, the less sensative your cells become to it by decreasing the amount of insulin receptors on the cell membrane. Look it up, im sure you can find some info on it if you do a teeny tiny tad bit of foot work. Last but not least.... SHBG is ABSOLUTELY important as to getting more from any test floating through your system (exo or endo). Regardless of how insignificant you THINK this is, it will have at least some effect at increasing the potency of your test which will = more growth. Inches add up to miles, so dont disregard the smaller things. 20 small things can add up to a few big things!
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Milos is 255 and hard at almost 44 years of age. Amazing.
how do you know that? ??? :-X
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maybe milos taught him how to
spoon squat ?
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lol well well well... is it now? While your post is intelligent and alot of what you said is true......
Yes, exo slin mimics endo....but at what dose? You really think your body can release a dose comperable to 10iu? Go grab a glucometer and youl figure this one out quick. Many that i know already have done this. One of my best friends is a diabetic for the last 10yrs that iv known him. I know how it works, both in bodybuilders and diabetics. Yes, Milos probably uses it every workout, but at what doses, and how often does he increase them? You have NO idea what dose he might be using, so you missed that little point. Your body can and will build a tolerance. The more slin you use, the less sensative your cells become to it by decreasing the amount of insulin receptors on the cell membrane. Look it up, im sure you can find some info on it if you do a teeny tiny tad bit of foot work. Last but not least.... SHBG is ABSOLUTELY important as to getting more from any test floating through your system (exo or endo). Regardless of how insignificant you THINK this is, it will have at least some effect at increasing the potency of your test which will = more growth. Inches add up to miles, so dont disregard the smaller things. 20 small things can add up to a few big things!
TooPowerful4u, i'm assuming that you have used insulin and perhaps done some extensive experimenting yourself.
can you relate some of your experiences with it, positive or negative? most of the people i've talked to just got fat (although they ate a shit load), dosages etc and other drugs would be good. ;D
big shout out to sarahdunlap. is that the Sarah Dunlap, one of the greatest women bodybuilders of all time?
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big shout out to sarahdunlap. is that the Sarah Dunlap, one of the greatest women bodybuilders of all time?
oh brother.. ::)
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oh brother.. ::)
That bitch can party!
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Would it matter the amount of bodyfat and type of body the person has prior to using the slin? Meaning, would slin work much better if lets say you dieted for a few months, utilizing very low carbs getting down to 6-7% bodyfat and trying to keep the bodies natural insulin level low through diet and supplements,i.e. ala, vanadyl, chromium? Then when jumping on the slin the body would supercompensate because its been without this hormone or large amounts of this type of food(carbs) for so long? And maybe using the slin only 2-3 times a week on largest bodyparts worked(legs, back, maybe arms) and using lower doses,3-4iu, at breakfast and post wrokout to ensure the body stays at a heightened response to the slin, as well as following a reduced carb diet on non slin days to keep the body sensitive to the hormone? GH15 has hinted many times to not even waste your time if you are above 10% bodyfat because your body is putting out enough insulin naturally. I think bodyfat levels and your bodies OWN hormone levels are key prior to engaging in a course of insulin.
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oh brother.. ::)
is there something mars?
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You really think your body can release a dose comperable to 10iu? Go grab a glucometer and youl figure this one out quick.
Glucometer doesn't measure insulin levels. Achieving a level equal to 10IU injected by eating is VERY easy. The reason you can go severely hypo from a 10IU shot is because it's not easy to time the meal perfectly. Eat 10 minutes too late and you can crash. A healthy person's body obviously handles the endo release perfectly - the exact right dose is released at the exact right time. A glucometer will not tell you how much insulin you release, only what your BG is.
This is from a post I've saved. Don't have the energy to look up the studies but it's easy enough to verify:
"A carb meal can easily raise insulin levels much higher than injecting insulin. For example, a candy bar with 44 grams of carbs, 3 grams of protein, and 11 grams of fat will raise insulin from a baseline level 5 mU/L to a peak of 42 mU/L in 30 min. It takes 180 min for insulin to return to baseline (1).
Contrast that with an injection of Actrapid Insulin (Novo GmbH, Germany), a humalog type of insulin. 10 IU injected sq into the thigh raises insulin from baseline to 20 mU/L after 90 min, with insulin decreasing to baseline after 300 min. (2)
The areas under the curves (AUC), representing the total bioavailable insulin are similar:
For the candy bar AUC was 3518 mU/L min
For actrapid AUC was 3796 mU/L min"
And:
You can see for yourself how similar an SQ Humalog injection is to a meal or glucose tolerance test. Compare Fig 4 here:
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/17/1/30
To Fig 2 here, in the prescribing info from Lilly for Humalog:
pi.lilly.com/us/humalog-vial-pi.pdf
Note that in the figure 2 in the pdf document the dosage is 0.2 IU per kg of BW. So in a 100 kg (220 lb) bodybuilder that would represent 20 IU of humalog, more than most bodybuilders use in one injection and twice the dosage used in the studies I quoted from above. That is why insulin levels are higher in Fig 2 below than in the studies I cited above.
Your body can and will build a tolerance. The more slin you use, the less sensative your cells become to it by decreasing the amount of insulin receptors on the cell membrane. Look it up, im sure you can find some info on it if you do a teeny tiny tad bit of foot work.
Of course sensitivity can go down. Do you really think I don't know that? My issue was with your statement that it stops working very quickly. If it did diabetics would die quickly since you just can't keep increasing the dose day by day.
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Glucometer doesn't measure insulin levels. Achieving a level equal to 10IU injected by eating is VERY easy. The reason you can go severely hypo from a 10IU shot is because it's not easy to time the meal perfectly. Eat 10 minutes too late and you can crash. A healthy person's body obviously handles the endo release perfectly - the exact right dose is released at the exact right time. A glucometer will not tell you how much insulin you release, only what your BG is.
This is from a post I've saved. Don't have the energy to look up the studies but it's easy enough to verify:
And:
Of course sensitivity can go down. Do you really think I don't know that? My issue was with your statement that it stops working very quickly. If it did diabetics would die quickly since you just can't keep increasing the dose day by day.
Obviously a glucometer cannot read insulin levels, as that is not what i was referring to. I ASSumed you understood what a glucometer was, and ASSumed that you would understand what i MEANT. Guess not....You can measure bg levels at multiple points before, during, and after administration in order to guage how effective and quickly it is working in your body. Now obviously this isnt EXACT, but its as close as the average person is going to get to experimenting with slin and devising a guage to its effectiveness. Since when does it take humalog (or the type used in your study) take 90min to peak? Ever use humalog? Or even read the dang panflet. Its much much faster.
Still, your studies interest me. You are stating pretty much that exo slin is ineffective and unnecessary, as your body can match that output when required, and in a much more efficient manor. My only question is... if this is so.... why have so many bodybuilders had HUGE success with it? Iv even personally used ONLY slin for 3 weeks to experiment and all my lifts SHOT up (didnt just go up, SHOT up). Did gain a tad bit of bodyfat, but also muscle. Iv WATCHED numerous bodybuilders grow like crazy off proper slin use. If your body could match this, why is slin so effective?
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Obviously a glucometer cannot read insulin levels, as that is not what i was referring to. I ASSumed you understood what a glucometer was, and ASSumed that you would understand what i MEANT. Guess not....You can measure bg levels at multiple points before, during, and after administration in order to guage how effective and quickly it is working in your body. Now obviously this isnt EXACT, but its as close as the average person is going to get to experimenting with slin and devising a guage to its effectiveness. Since when does it take humalog (or the type used in your study) take 90min to peak? Ever use humalog? Or even read the dang panflet. Its much much faster.
Still, your studies interest me. You are stating pretty much that exo slin is ineffective and unnecessary, as your body can match that output when required, and in a much more efficient manor. My only question is... if this is so.... why have so many bodybuilders had HUGE success with it? Iv even personally used ONLY slin for 3 weeks to experiment and all my lifts SHOT up (didnt just go up, SHOT up). Did gain a tad bit of bodyfat, but also muscle. Iv WATCHED numerous bodybuilders grow like crazy off proper slin use. If your body could match this, why is slin so effective?
hahahaha, 365 pounds on front squats is "shot up"? hahaha, weak as the day is long.
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hahahaha, 365 pounds on front squats is "shot up"? hahaha, weak as the day is long.
1. i was clean in that video
2. it was half the set, i got 6 reps.
3. i would demolish you in any bodypart, so shut yo fat mouth ;D
4. im a bodybuilder, not a powerlifter.
5. my physique DEMOLISHES yours. disagree?.. (im waiting for..."well if i used.. " LOL) sad
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1. i was clean in that video
2. it was half the set, i got 6 reps.
3. i would demolish you in any bodypart, so shut yo fat mouth ;D
4. im a bodybuilder, not a powerlifter.
5. my physique DEMOLISHES yours. disagree?.. (im waiting for..."well if i used.. " LOL) sad
hahahaha, 6 reps with 365!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a beast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D :o
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Obviously a glucometer cannot read insulin levels, as that is not what i was referring to. I ASSumed you understood what a glucometer was, and ASSumed that you would understand what i MEANT. Guess not....You can measure bg levels at multiple points before, during, and after administration in order to guage how effective and quickly it is working in your body. Now obviously this isnt EXACT, but its as close as the average person is going to get to experimenting with slin and devising a guage to its effectiveness. Since when does it take humalog (or the type used in your study) take 90min to peak? Ever use humalog? Or even read the dang panflet. Its much much faster.
Still, your studies interest me. You are stating pretty much that exo slin is ineffective and unnecessary, as your body can match that output when required, and in a much more efficient manor. My only question is... if this is so.... why have so many bodybuilders had HUGE success with it? Iv even personally used ONLY slin for 3 weeks to experiment and all my lifts SHOT up (didnt just go up, SHOT up). Did gain a tad bit of bodyfat, but also muscle. Iv WATCHED numerous bodybuilders grow like crazy off proper slin use. If your body could match this, why is slin so effective?
That study was with Actrapid, if I'm not mistaken it's the same as Humulin R. Humalog is the only type of insulin I've tried personally.
No, I did not say endogenous insulin release is as effective as a matter of fact. I said in the beginning of the thread that it's a "mystery" of why it works since most don't use hugely supraphysiological dosages, unlike with other hormones used by bodybuilders. I did point to the fact that I didn't find it very effective and that I haven't seen anyone get absolutely crazy results with it. I know many say it's amazing, I just haven't seen it with my own eyes. Not the 30-40lbs lean muscle increases Milos talks about.
If it was so effective for you why did you stop? Why don't you go on an insulin cycle and let us know how much you gained 3 months from now? You "know" how to use it (as you say) so the results should be insane.
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That study was with Actrapid, if I'm not mistaken it's the same as Humulin R. Humalog is the only type of insulin I've tried personally.
No, I did not say endogenous insulin release is as effective as a matter of fact. I said in the beginning of the thread that it's a "mystery" of why it works since most don't use hugely supraphysiological dosages, unlike with other hormones used by bodybuilders. I did point to the fact that I didn't find it very effective and that I haven't seen anyone get absolutely crazy results with it. I know many say it's amazing, I just haven't seen it with my own eyes. Not the 30-40lbs lean muscle increases Milos talks about.
If it was so effective for you why did you stop? Why don't you go on an insulin cycle and let us know how much you gained 3 months from now? You "know" how to use it (as you say) so the results should be insane.
Because slin also makes you gain bodyfat and fucks up physiques. I dont like how it makes other bodybuilders look so i very rarely use it.
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Because slin also makes you gain bodyfat and fucks up physiques.
You produce insulin with every meal you eat.
The only reason it makes people gain bodyfat is because idiots think "I'm on slin, gotta eat big to get big!"
Unfortunately, the idiots in the weight training sports vastly outnumber the informed, rational lot.
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Because of the planet Nibiru.
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hey dope, that would be CARLA DUNLAP. ::)
hopes this helps.
shit
harsh but well deserved ownage. :-[
obviously i don't know my women's bbing as well as i thought i did... :-\
but hey, that Carla Dunlap was a great bber, wasn't she? :'(
having said that, i'm sure sarahdunlap is a great pro... ;D
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hahahaha, 365 pounds on front squats is "shot up"? hahaha, weak as the day is long.
I am quite sure that I will never be able to front squat 365 lbs for six reps let alone one. I feel like I might as well be in a wheel chair.
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I remember reading an article on the ketogenic diet using insulin... in some anabolic review. I knew a kid who tried it, got freaky shredded and won his show (amatuer)-- but he did say that he was driving and passed out into a coma crashed his car. Insulin is kinda foriegn for me... I had a training partner that used it and said the best kind was the short acting. I don't know what the high limits are to insulin are in the human body but obviously it can be increased beyond natural capasity (which is why a bodybuilder would use it-duh). I doubt the claim that insulin alone can get anyone shredded because insulin is for gaining muscle, along with water... seeing that for every carbohydrate you eat you hold 3 molecules of water. If you break down the systems, your question can be answered... I've trained will top level pro's that take it very seriously as a part of their regimine.
but that's all I can really add on this one.
I like girls who think.
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Because of the planet Nibiru.
I heard the Planet Nibiru raises INsulin levels much higher than slin.
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I heard the Planet Nibiru raises INsulin levels much higher than slin.
That's what I've heard. But how does it increase muscle mass anymore than downing 150 grams of sugar.
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I remember reading an article on the ketogenic diet using insulin... in some anabolic review. I knew a kid who tried it, got freaky shredded and won his show (amatuer)-- but he did say that he was driving and passed out into a coma crashed his car. Insulin is kinda foriegn for me... I had a training partner that used it and said the best kind was the short acting. I don't know what the high limits are to insulin are in the human body but obviously it can be increased beyond natural capasity (which is why a bodybuilder would use it-duh). I doubt the claim that insulin alone can get anyone shredded because insulin is for gaining muscle, along with water... seeing that for every carbohydrate you eat you hold 3 molecules of water. If you break down the systems, your question can be answered... I've trained will top level pro's that take it very seriously as a part of their regimine.
but that's all I can really add on this one.
Hey! How is your lesbian "room mate"?
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GH15 is planning on an undergound lab..
The name is a toss up between "Nibiru chemicals" and "Area 51 anabolics"
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GH15 is planning on an undergound lab..
The name is a toss up between "Nibiru chemicals" and "Area 51 anabolics"
lol. i guess he already has one...
That's what I've heard. But how does it increase muscle mass anymore than downing 150 grams of sugar.
ask gh15, i'm not to good in alien chemicals, but he is an expert who always talks the truth.
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Insulin for newbies= DEATH
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That study was with Actrapid, if I'm not mistaken it's the same as Humulin R. Humalog is the only type of insulin I've tried personally.
No, I did not say endogenous insulin release is as effective as a matter of fact. I said in the beginning of the thread that it's a "mystery" of why it works since most don't use hugely supraphysiological dosages, unlike with other hormones used by bodybuilders. I did point to the fact that I didn't find it very effective and that I haven't seen anyone get absolutely crazy results with it. I know many say it's amazing, I just haven't seen it with my own eyes. Not the 30-40lbs lean muscle increases Milos talks about.
If it was so effective for you why did you stop? Why don't you go on an insulin cycle and let us know how much you gained 3 months from now? You "know" how to use it (as you say) so the results should be insane.
Van your post's are always good and informative. What ive always wondered is this... It gets to post work out you take your 10iu shot of slin and then down 1g simple carbs per IU slin. Surely ones natural release after 100g simple carbs is huge (even 50g) and then on top of that the exogenous slin. Surely that’s why it works more effectively when you combine slin with a hi gi hi carb meal? You basically getting a double effect of what would naturally occur. Ive tried low dose shots of slin maxing out at 7iu. Pre work out post work ect , as well as multiple times in a day. I find im very sensitive to the effects. I gained the most dramtic weight with 3 times a day shots which also subsequently lead to the worst side effect. I felt like shit , no appetite , and super lethargic. I gained 4 kgs in a week using slin d-bol , test , EQ and 4 iu gh. Was not worth it and by then end of the week I stopped everything due to sides. The best way for me to use it was post work out in the evening. As I could come home , eat and relax. I gained 3kgs over a 4 week period with sust and deca.I was lucky enough to spend time with a pro and he shot 14iu post work out and that was it. Once a day post work out only. Said it made him feel to shit to take it at any other time. He drank a can of coke and ate 1 cup of rice and a large white potato with that. He also kept 1L of fruit juice with him incase… That’s my experience with slin. Id say post work out is the only way Id use it again. This pre work out story is horse shit , I want to enjoy my training not spin out and fall asleep , its to risky and on top of that I go to gym to train because I LOVE TO TRAIN.
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You produce insulin with every meal you eat.
The only reason it makes people gain bodyfat is because idiots think "I'm on slin, gotta eat big to get big!"
Unfortunately, the idiots in the weight training sports vastly outnumber the informed, rational lot.
For once I completely agree with you on this ;)
"toopowerful4u": 365 on the front squat is a very good lift, I'm sure there's only a handful of guys on this board that can do it too ;)
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Van your post's are always good and informative. What ive always wondered is this... It gets to post work out you take your 10iu shot of slin and then down 1g simple carbs per IU slin. Surely ones natural release after 100g simple carbs is huge (even 50g) and then on top of that the exogenous slin. Surely that’s why it works more effectively when you combine slin with a hi gi hi carb meal? You basically getting a double effect of what would naturally occur. Ive tried low dose shots of slin maxing out at 7iu. Pre work out post work ect , as well as multiple times in a day. I find im very sensitive to the effects. I gained the most dramtic weight with 3 times a day shots which also subsequently lead to the worst side effect. I felt like shit , no appetite , and super lethargic. I gained 4 kgs in a week using slin d-bol , test , EQ and 4 iu gh. Was not worth it and by then end of the week I stopped everything due to sides. The best way for me to use it was post work out in the evening. As I could come home , eat and relax. I gained 3kgs over a 4 week period with sust and deca.I was lucky enough to spend time with a pro and he shot 14iu post work out and that was it. Once a day post work out only. Said it made him feel to shit to take it at any other time. He drank a can of coke and ate 1 cup of rice and a large white potato with that. He also kept 1L of fruit juice with him incase… That’s my experience with slin. Id say post work out is the only way Id use it again. This pre work out story is horse shit , I want to enjoy my training not spin out and fall asleep , its to risky and on top of that I go to gym to train because I LOVE TO TRAIN.
I speculated that very same thing a few years ago when I was trying to figure out why it worked so well for some. My thought was that you may still get plenty of endogenous insulin release since it's hard to time the carb intake so it coincides perfectly with the insulin shot.
My other thought was that the ones getting a lot out of it weren't used to very high carb intakes without the insulin. Would they have gained similar amount of weight just by upping the carbs/calories?
It's been about 7 years since I last tried it. I think I'll try it again soon to see if it still sucks for me :D
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I speculated that very same thing a few years ago when I was trying to figure out why it worked so well for some. My thought was that you may still get plenty of endogenous insulin release since it's hard to time the carb intake so it coincides perfectly with the insulin shot.
My other thought was that the ones getting a lot out of it weren't used to very high carb intakes without the insulin. Would they have gained similar amount of weight just by upping the carbs/calories?
It's been about 7 years since I last tried it. I think I'll try it again soon to see if it still sucks for me :D
I think it may be the compounded effect of your natural release due to the hi carb in take and then the exogenous intake. Then again I know some guys that don’t take in a hi gi carb and use a small amount with all their meals. It also has very anti catabolic properties. If you look at bodybuilder who use a lot of slin they have that swollen look and not very hard , I would speculate that Jay uses a shit load of slin hence his hi carb in take all year round even pre contest. He also looks soft when compare him to a lot of other pro’s. So maybe all that weight gain is also a lot of super saturated muscle mass. Im not saying you can get hard on slin im saying some guys just get the swollen look. I know for myself when I started using it 3 times a day I looked like I wanted to pop and I had to stop as guys started telling me I looked like shit with a blue tint! I think once a day post work out it optimal… You may gain more slowly but I’d say you have more quality in your life , if your in it for the long run that’s the way to go.
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Van your post's are always good and informative. What ive always wondered is this... It gets to post work out you take your 10iu shot of slin and then down 1g simple carbs per IU slin. Surely ones natural release after 100g simple carbs is huge (even 50g) and then on top of that the exogenous slin. Surely that’s why it works more effectively when you combine slin with a hi gi hi carb meal? You basically getting a double effect of what would naturally occur. Ive tried low dose shots of slin maxing out at 7iu. Pre work out post work ect , as well as multiple times in a day. I find im very sensitive to the effects. I gained the most dramtic weight with 3 times a day shots which also subsequently lead to the worst side effect. I felt like shit , no appetite , and super lethargic. I gained 4 kgs in a week using slin d-bol , test , EQ and 4 iu gh. Was not worth it and by then end of the week I stopped everything due to sides. The best way for me to use it was post work out in the evening. As I could come home , eat and relax. I gained 3kgs over a 4 week period with sust and deca.I was lucky enough to spend time with a pro and he shot 14iu post work out and that was it. Once a day post work out only. Said it made him feel to shit to take it at any other time. He drank a can of coke and ate 1 cup of rice and a large white potato with that. He also kept 1L of fruit juice with him incase… That’s my experience with slin. Id say post work out is the only way Id use it again. This pre work out story is horse shit , I want to enjoy my training not spin out and fall asleep , its to risky and on top of that I go to gym to train because I LOVE TO TRAIN.
What do you mean when you say that you get double the effect when you inject slin? I understand that when you ingest 100g of simple carbs you get a huge spike of your natural insulin and if in addition to that you pin yourself with 10iu of Humalog so you have even more insulin -- then what? It's not like the 100g of carbs won't be shuttled with your natural insulin production. If you are normal and healthy your pancreas will produce as much or as little as needed. What does the additional amount do? What is this doubling effect? It processes the carbs faster? So what? It can't "double" the shuttling of nutrients because that's fixed and depending entirely on how much you ingest. Still need more nuts and bolts on the anabolic process. With anabolics it's easy to see the relationship. With slin I'm lost.
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I think it may be the compounded effect of your natural release due to the hi carb in take and then the exogenous intake. Then again I know some guys that don’t take in a hi gi carb and use a small amount with all their meals. It also has very anti catabolic properties. If you look at bodybuilder who use a lot of slin they have that swollen look and not very hard , I would speculate that Jay uses a shit load of slin hence his hi carb in take all year round even pre contest. He also looks soft when compare him to a lot of other pro’s. So maybe all that weight gain is also a lot of super saturated muscle mass. Im not saying you can get hard on slin im saying some guys just get the swollen look. I know for myself when I started using it 3 times a day I looked like I wanted to pop and I had to stop as guys started telling me I looked like shit with a blue tint! I think once a day post work out it optimal… You may gain more slowly but I’d say you have more quality in your life , if your in it for the long run that’s the way to go.
But it seems to me that it's only his upper body that looks smooth. His legs look dry and rock hard.
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Milos is 255 and hard at almost 44 years of age. Amazing.
Nasser is 300 lbs and hard at about the same age. More Amazing.
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some guys just don't get it.
it isn't insulin that you see responsible for promoting the gains you are seeing today.
i'm not saying it isnt a factor but is isnt the holy grail of compounds.
all you read on boards are the ignorant ramblings kids who know nothing, have no experience with what they are talking about and just perpetuate the rumor of how insulin is responsible for the changes in physiques in the past 3 decades and it gets repeated until evreyone starts thinking its true.
it is a combination of GH, mid- single gram doses of test each week and insulin that is responsible for these changes, not insulin in and of itself.
anyone who would say insulin is rsponsible for it all has NO idea what they are talking about.
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Insulin for newbies= DEATH
do you ever stop and listen to yourself? has nothing to do if someone is a newbie or not you either know what the fuck your doing or u dont
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some guys just don't get it.
it isn't insulin that you see responsible for promoting the gains you are seeing today.
i'm not saying it isnt a factor but is isnt the holy grail of compounds.
all you read on boards are the ignorant ramblings kids who know nothing, have no experience with what they are talking about and just perpetuate the rumor of how insulin is responsible for the changes in physiques in the past 3 decades and it gets repeated until evreyone starts thinking its true.
it is a combination of GH, mid- single gram doses of test each week and insulin that is responsible for these changes, not insulin in and of itself.
anyone who would say insulin is rsponsible for it all has NO idea what they are talking about.
exactly, insulin came into the picture in about 93 and bamn everyone blew up, nothing else changed and it wasnt the GH as much as people make it out to be and at the time noone took more then 2iu a day of GH it was unheard of and slin was 5iu max pre workout or post and as everyone kept upping everything the waists grew and grew levrone ray and all others back then had 0 gut and all where taking slin
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"...it is a combination of GH, mid- single gram doses of test each week and insulin that is responsible for these changes, not insulin in and of itself..."
40s - 50s test only
50s - 70s test + anabolics + orals
70s - 80s test + anabolics + orals + gh (late 70s)
80s - 90s test + anabolics + orals + gh + slin + igf 1.
90s - now test + anabolics + orals + gh + slin + igf 1 IN MUCH HIGHER DOSAGES.
dosages: always went up and up right from the begining. humans being humans = if a little is good a lot is better and when it comes to hormones, unfortunately they were right. receptors get saturated, want to be a larger contestant, must stay large during off season ie no break ie up the dosage for anabolic effect.
sadly, i think milos is a much better con artist than i had previously thought. many of you really believe what he says including his utter bullshit that todays competitive bbers never go over 1 g total test pw. ::) seriously, he must laugh his ass off every time he posts on this board. i'll let you numptys in on a little secret, MILOS IS NOT GOING TO SHARE HIS DRUG SECRETS WITH THE GETBIG BRAIN TRUST. if i was sure of that much, i was certain that no one here would believe him when he said that he ONLY takes insulin to maintain 255 cut. no hormones? wrong again. i must be the one with my head all fucked up. i mean, sure, milos is the freak exception to the rule that bbers with 30 + years of consisant comp bbing ie 30 + years of consistant hormone usage at super high levels is going to be producing more natural hormones post career, 45 yrs, cut 255lbs, NO HRT!!!. ok, makes sense.
morons on her actually believe a man who mainlines synthol, doesn't question for a second what chad had told him to take for a comp (not dosage, drug name, nada, just puts his complete faith in a drug dealer and proceeds to literally fry himself) and tells the world that test and insulin are health tonics.
yeah sure, if milos says that no pro bber takes more than 1 g of total test pw and guys like ronnie and jay actually take less then it must be true. never mind the fact that he gets $500 per hour for providing less, but he's going to tell the entire getbig board (who he holds with contempt) for free.
"hey ronnie, what did you take for the 2003 olympia?"
"ahem, coughbullshitcoughcough, 750mg of sustanon per week, insulin and a little gh."
"cool ronnie. thanks man, you're the best." :D
never mind that only a conservative novice recreational gym bber ('i don't wanna compete man') might take this cycle, but a professional bber who doesn't even look human anymore with nearly 300lbs of pure muscle on his 5'10" frame takes the same amounts. absolutely believable, it's like a 'one size fits all' deal. :D
1997 yates took the same amount and type of gear as 80s haney did, as joe gymbody novice did, as aunt ethel did. it must have been high intensity training that completely altered dorian and ronnie's appearance from bber to freak alien between the 1990 and 2000.
"hey there my diabetic little buddy, better not accidently take too much insulin or you'll wake up with 50lbs of ripped muscle tissue hanging off you. don't say i didn't warn ya. milos told me so."
thankyou, i feel better now.
carry on... :D
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50s - 70s test + anabolics + orals
any specific anabolics?
do u know what arnold was taking in the late 60's - mid 70's? specific drugs, dosages, etc?
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any specific anabolics?
do u know what arnold was taking in the late 60's - mid 70's? specific drugs, dosages, etc?
no one was specific during the 60s and 70s. they would take dballs and nilevar all day like they were popping peanuts, for example, and when in doubt they'd take a handful more. arnold was no different from everything i've read, but good luck finding any info on exactly what he took because i seriously doubt he'd even know, even if he or anyone else in his tight group would tell you. sure as fuck, nobody else is going to tell you. how would they know ??? all anyone has ever done when it comes to arnold's drug regimen is guess, based on what was available at the time and what everyone was doing.
no one knew what dosages to take. it was entirely hit or miss, but if you even look at this logically (take a good hard look at the obsessive, narcisistic screwballs that compete) if an 18" arm is good, a 19" arm is better and a 20" arm is mr olympia correlates with, if 100mg dball pd is good, 200mgs is better....no one knew because there was absolutely no science to it. the medical community were still adamantly testifying that steroids didn't make you bigger and stronger so you know the bbers weren't listening to them.
if you were preparing for a contest that was going to make or break you and you were getting dianabol, test, deca, primobolan, winnie, etc dirt cheap and so and so told you that joe big guy was taking this much, now wouldn't you be prepared to take a little more and then a little more and...meanwhile, you're staving yourself to senility on your 3rd and last can of tuna for the day and the question arises in your head, "should i take more or not?" HELL YEAH! remember, they were perfectly legal and nobody even knew about sides back then. i mean, you're going to smoke a pack a day cigarettes, drink a bottle of jacks, snort coke all day, inject meth but you're not going to take more anabolics? ::)
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What do you mean when you say that you get double the effect when you inject slin? I understand that when you ingest 100g of simple carbs you get a huge spike of your natural insulin and if in addition to that you pin yourself with 10iu of Humalog so you have even more insulin -- then what? It's not like the 100g of carbs won't be shuttled with your natural insulin production. If you are normal and healthy your pancreas will produce as much or as little as needed. What does the additional amount do? What is this doubling effect? It processes the carbs faster? So what? It can't "double" the shuttling of nutrients because that's fixed and depending entirely on how much you ingest. Still need more nuts and bolts on the anabolic process. With anabolics it's easy to see the relationship. With slin I'm lost.
Basically the way I understand it is that you have a compounded effect which basically shoves Nutrients into your muscle so you become super saturated. Im not the right person to ask though but basically that’s how I understand it to work. Think fuel injected engine
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very cool read,and unfortunatly a very realistic look out how drug pharmacology plays a vital role in hardcore bbing.but yes some local gym rats push the same envelope as the more experienced amateurs and pro's :-\..
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Basically the way I understand it is that you have a compounded effect which basically shoves Nutrients into your muscle so you become super saturated. Im not the right person to ask though but basically that’s how I understand it to work. Think fuel injected engine
That's where I get loss. If you take 150 grams of simple carbs they will get "shoved" into the cells with your own nature insulin production. Now it may be that with an addition of 10 ius of slin you get it done faster but I don't understand this super saturation. I mean, the 150 grams get shoved in one way or another. Whether by natural means or helped along with those 10 ius.
-
"...it is a combination of GH, mid- single gram doses of test each week and insulin that is responsible for these changes, not insulin in and of itself..."
40s - 50s test only
50s - 70s test + anabolics + orals
70s - 80s test + anabolics + orals + gh (late 70s)
80s - 90s test + anabolics + orals + gh + slin + igf 1.
90s - now test + anabolics + orals + gh + slin + igf 1 IN MUCH HIGHER DOSAGES.
dosages: always went up and up right from the begining. humans being humans = if a little is good a lot is better and when it comes to hormones, unfortunately they were right. receptors get saturated, want to be a larger contestant, must stay large during off season ie no break ie up the dosage for anabolic effect.
sadly, i think milos is a much better con artist than i had previously thought. many of you really believe what he says including his utter bullshit that todays competitive bbers never go over 1 g total test pw. ::) seriously, he must laugh his ass off every time he posts on this board. i'll let you numptys in on a little secret, MILOS IS NOT GOING TO SHARE HIS DRUG SECRETS WITH THE GETBIG BRAIN TRUST. if i was sure of that much, i was certain that no one here would believe him when he said that he ONLY takes insulin to maintain 255 cut. no hormones? wrong again. i must be the one with my head all fucked up. i mean, sure, milos is the freak exception to the rule that bbers with 30 + years of consisant comp bbing ie 30 + years of consistant hormone usage at super high levels is going to be producing more natural hormones post career, 45 yrs, cut 255lbs, NO HRT!!!. ok, makes sense.
morons on her actually believe a man who mainlines synthol, doesn't question for a second what chad had told him to take for a comp (not dosage, drug name, nada, just puts his complete faith in a drug dealer and proceeds to literally fry himself) and tells the world that test and insulin are health tonics.
yeah sure, if milos says that no pro bber takes more than 1 g of total test pw and guys like ronnie and jay actually take less then it must be true. never mind the fact that he gets $500 per hour for providing less, but he's going to tell the entire getbig board (who he holds with contempt) for free.
"hey ronnie, what did you take for the 2003 olympia?"
"ahem, coughbullshitcoughcough, 750mg of sustanon per week, insulin and a little gh."
"cool ronnie. thanks man, you're the best." :D
never mind that only a conservative novice recreational gym bber ('i don't wanna compete man') might take this cycle, but a professional bber who doesn't even look human anymore with nearly 300lbs of pure muscle on his 5'10" frame takes the same amounts. absolutely believable, it's like a 'one size fits all' deal. :D
1997 yates took the same amount and type of gear as 80s haney did, as joe gymbody novice did, as aunt ethel did. it must have been high intensity training that completely altered dorian and ronnie's appearance from bber to freak alien between the 1990 and 2000.
"hey there my diabetic little buddy, better not accidently take too much insulin or you'll wake up with 50lbs of ripped muscle tissue hanging off you. don't say i didn't warn ya. milos told me so."
thankyou, i feel better now.
carry on... :D
:D :D :D
In a February 2000 e-mail exchange with Arnold, Sarcev expressed interest in designer supplements and diuretics for an imminent competition.
"Let me know where to send money, gold or kidneys," Sarcev replied after Arnold quoted him a price of 100 dollars a gram for "miracle stuff" called Norbolethone.
"I can over night it." Sarcev offered himself as "a good guinea pig" because he had "tried everything" and added he worked "with many other monkeys (that would like to become gorillas)."
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some guys just don't get it.
it isn't insulin that you see responsible for promoting the gains you are seeing today.
i'm not saying it isnt a factor but is isnt the holy grail of compounds.
all you read on boards are the ignorant ramblings kids who know nothing, have no experience with what they are talking about and just perpetuate the rumor of how insulin is responsible for the changes in physiques in the past 3 decades and it gets repeated until evreyone starts thinking its true.
it is a combination of GH, mid- single gram doses of test each week and insulin that is responsible for these changes, not insulin in and of itself.
anyone who would say insulin is rsponsible for it all has NO idea what they are talking about.
Perhaps, but competitive bodybuilders themselves claim it's wonders. gh15 claims to have won a few shows solely based on the addition of insulin.
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:D :D :D
In a February 2000 e-mail exchange with Arnold, Sarcev expressed interest in designer supplements and diuretics for an imminent competition.
"Let me know where to send money, gold or kidneys," Sarcev replied after Arnold quoted him a price of 100 dollars a gram for "miracle stuff" called Norbolethone.
"I can over night it." Sarcev offered himself as "a good guinea pig" because he had "tried everything" and added he worked "with many other monkeys (that would like to become gorillas)."
so are you Arnold or did you just hack his email account? ;D ;D
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That's where I get loss. If you take 150 grams of simple carbs they will get "shoved" into the cells with your own nature insulin production. Now it may be that with an addition of 10 ius of slin you get it done faster but I don't understand this super saturation. I mean, the 150 grams get shoved in one way or another. Whether by natural means or helped along with those 10 ius.
Think of it as making the process more efficient MUCH more. Like others said I wouldn’t single it out as the sole reason guys are getting huge, it’s a combination of hard training , food, and other drugs. Bud I don’t understand the exact science behind it and we are going around in circles. You don’t need to understand exactly how electricity works just the basic principles which is all you need to know in order to use it. I know what slin is going to do for me and I know how not to hurt myself on it. Im couldn’t get to excited about the complex workings of it…
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My good friend and x training partner has been using insulin and HGH and other stacks of steroids that would make GH15 proud and has gained over 25 pounds in one year when he was stuck at the same weight for a few years.
He has cracked 300 pounds at 6,2 15% bodyfat would be my guess if he dieted for a show he be atleast 260pounds he says that he only takes it post workout with a couple of litres of orange juice and creatine. When he first asked me about doing it i was dead against it as it was an unreasonable risk but he got it down pat with another BB.
I asked if i could post some pitures of him with his face disguised and he threatened to smash the shit out of me if i did, Funny thing is he does not follow BB just the lifestyle ask him who are a few top BBs and he gives a vacant stare and shrugs his shoulders.
One thing is he is very smart in buisness and work and wears a suit not your typical BB and he regulary sees a Doctor and the Doctor freaked out when he said he was using insulin but the main thing is that he is healthy.
In saying all this i would not touch insulin with 12 foot barge poll no matter what beneficial affects they are
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My good friend and x training partner has been using insulin and HGH and other stacks of steroids that would make GH15 proud and has gained over 25 pounds in one year when he was stuck at the same weight for a few years.
He has cracked 300 pounds at 6,2 15% bodyfat would be my guess if he dieted for a show he be atleast 260pounds he says that he only takes it post workout with a couple of litres of orange juice and creatine. When he first asked me about doing it i was dead against it as it was an unreasonable risk but he got it down pat with another BB.
I asked if i could post some pitures of him with his face disguised and he threatened to smash the shit out of me if i did, Funny thing is he does not follow BB just the lifestyle ask him who are a few top BBs and he gives a vacant stare and shrugs his shoulders.
One thing is he is very smart in buisness and work and wears a suit not your typical BB and he regulary sees a Doctor and the Doctor freaked out when he said he was using insulin but the main thing is that he is healthy.
In saying all this i would not touch insulin with 12 foot barge poll no matter what beneficial affects they are
great bullshit story best so far in this thread
Number 1 every schmuck says the same shit on these forums "slin will make you fat" "slin will kill you" "id never touch slin" BULL fucking SHIT!
The post workout only part of your story sounds good for those who dont understand timing of slin, you obviously repeated crap you read and turned it into a nice story.
Oh and he didnt know who the top guys are, yup great bullshit!
But the touch I like most of your post is instead of waiting for people to ask you to post pics of your "friend" and then you responding with a bullshit excuse you covered yourself right away.
Fucking jerkoff
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great bullshit story best so far in this thread
Number 1 every schmuck says the same shit on these forums "slin will make you fat" "slin will kill you" "id never touch slin" BULL fucking SHIT!
The post workout only part of your story sounds good for those who dont understand timing of slin, you obviously repeated crap you read and turned it into a nice story.
Oh and he didnt know who the top guys are, yup great bullshit!
But the touch I like most of your post is instead of waiting for people to ask you to post pics of your "friend" and then you responding with a bullshit excuse you covered yourself right away.
Fucking jerkoff
Well his 300 pounds and im not ive known most of my adult life so i must be in Fairy land
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Also he came in contact with a dealer for HGH and Slin and i know first hand who he is so my freind is not lying to me if you thinks its bullshit that your call, ive known him for 10 years and he does not lie
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Think of it as making the process more efficient MUCH more. Like others said I wouldn’t single it out as the sole reason guys are getting huge, it’s a combination of hard training , food, and other drugs. Bud I don’t understand the exact science behind it and we are going around in circles. You don’t need to understand exactly how electricity works just the basic principles which is all you need to know in order to use it. I know what slin is going to do for me and I know how not to hurt myself on it. Im couldn’t get to excited about the complex workings of it…
You make a good point about not having to know how electricity works to apply it in the practical world. How many people know how their computer or even their cars work yet use them everyday. I guess when you are dealing with your body and health it puts a different perspective on things. Also, there's a reason that many athletes with little formal education on nutrition, drugs and medicine could run rings around a Harvard trained physician in these specialized areas. They're just passionately interested on the subject and have a vested interest. So when someone says an NO based product like SuperPump or NO-Xplode will do this or that, we ask why and does it make sense. Whether creatine works for you or not the reasoning behind is sound. Anabolic hormones effectiveness are also fairly easy to understand despite years of sincere denial by the medical community. This is what we are interested in and this is what we do. I have a friend who knows everything about every prohormone on the market. Just likes researching and reading about the stuff and trying to understand the nuts and bolts. Same thing here. I want to know how my lap top works. I want to know how my car runs.
So when you say that exo insulin makes the process much more efficient I ask myself what do you mean by more efficient. If you naturally need say (figures and units are arbitrary) 1 unit of natural insulin to process 10 units of carbs what happens when you now have an extra 50 units of insulin to process that same 10 units of carbs? What happens? Does it get processed faster? Does it get push "deeper" into the cell? And why would it make any difference? Those 10 units of carbs are going to be process by a healthy individual whether or not he pins himself with slin.
Not trying to be a dick but just picking the brains on this board hopefully leading toward a better understanding.
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heh.
Nobody seems to know....everybody is always yelling that insulin did that and insulin that - but nobody seems to know why insulin would give a shit... Stop acting like fucking doctors if you don't know a shit about anything
less than 1% of the posters on here have a clue about what they re talking about on a daily basis anyway.
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less than 1% of the posters on here have a clue about what they re talking about on a daily basis anyway.
...what you just proofed beautifully...
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...what you just proofed beautifully...
"proved" u mean?
u used to be nicer to me in the past, why the hate.
I never talk about things i have no clue about.
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"proved" u mean?
u used to be nicer to me in the past, why the hate.
I never talk about things i have no clue about.
Oh yes, "proved". Thanks for the nice hint, i appreciate it.
It's a sad thing, but most people here claim they never talk about things they have no clue about, but it seems they have no clue that they have no clue.
Which is kind of a dilemma.
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i have no clue wtf ur talking bout.
(lol).
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i have no clue wtf ur talking bout.
(lol).
Me neither, which proves the point you made and the point i made.
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no one was specific during the 60s and 70s. they would take dballs and nilevar all day like they were popping peanuts, for example, and when in doubt they'd take a handful more. arnold was no different from everything i've read, but good luck finding any info on exactly what he took because i seriously doubt he'd even know, even if he or anyone else in his tight group would tell you. sure as fuck, nobody else is going to tell you. how would they know ??? all anyone has ever done when it comes to arnold's drug regimen is guess, based on what was available at the time and what everyone was doing.
no one knew what dosages to take. it was entirely hit or miss, but if you even look at this logically (take a good hard look at the obsessive, narcisistic screwballs that compete) if an 18" arm is good, a 19" arm is better and a 20" arm is mr olympia correlates with, if 100mg dball pd is good, 200mgs is better....no one knew because there was absolutely no science to it. the medical community were still adamantly testifying that steroids didn't make you bigger and stronger so you know the bbers weren't listening to them.
if you were preparing for a contest that was going to make or break you and you were getting dianabol, test, deca, primobolan, winnie, etc dirt cheap and so and so told you that joe big guy was taking this much, now wouldn't you be prepared to take a little more and then a little more and...meanwhile, you're staving yourself to senility on your 3rd and last can of tuna for the day and the question arises in your head, "should i take more or not?" HELL YEAH! remember, they were perfectly legal and nobody even knew about sides back then. i mean, you're going to smoke a pack a day cigarettes, drink a bottle of jacks, snort coke all day, inject meth but you're not going to take more anabolics? ::)
did anyone inject in the mid 60's - 70's?
seems like the most commonly used drugs of that time were winny, promo, dbol, deca and test... also, people say injectables are worse for ur liver, but arnie used them for about 12 years for bbing, longer for movies (unless he used injectables), and 99% of the guys back then were likely popping pills like candy, but they all seem to live to very old (ala reg park, mike katz, larry scott, serge nubret, etc). so they cant be too bad.
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You make a good point about not having to know how electricity works to apply it in the practical world. How many people know how their computer or even their cars work yet use them everyday. I guess when you are dealing with your body and health it puts a different perspective on things. Also, there's a reason that many athletes with little formal education on nutrition, drugs and medicine could run rings around a Harvard trained physician in these specialized areas. They're just passionately interested on the subject and have a vested interest. So when someone says an NO based product like SuperPump or NO-Xplode will do this or that, we ask why and does it make sense. Whether creatine works for you or not the reasoning behind is sound. Anabolic hormones effectiveness are also fairly easy to understand despite years of sincere denial by the medical community. This is what we are interested in and this is what we do. I have a friend who knows everything about every prohormone on the market. Just likes researching and reading about the stuff and trying to understand the nuts and bolts. Same thing here. I want to know how my lap top works. I want to know how my car runs.
So when you say that exo insulin makes the process much more efficient I ask myself what do you mean by more efficient. If you naturally need say (figures and units are arbitrary) 1 unit of natural insulin to process 10 units of carbs what happens when you now have an extra 50 units of insulin to process that same 10 units of carbs? What happens? Does it get processed faster? Does it get push "deeper" into the cell? And why would it make any difference? Those 10 units of carbs are going to be process by a healthy individual whether or not he pins himself with slin.
Not trying to be a dick but just picking the brains on this board hopefully leading toward a better understanding.
YOu question is in depth have a look at this http://www.steroid.com/Insulin.php
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people say injectables are worse for ur liver,
Got that one eactly backward, boss. Orals cycle through the liver twice. Additionally, orals like Anadrol and Halotestin are far more toxic than injectables.
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did anyone inject in the mid 60's - 70's?
seems like the most commonly used drugs of that time were winny, promo, dbol, deca and test... also, people say injectables are worse for ur liver, but arnie used them for about 12 years for bbing, longer for movies (unless he used injectables), and 99% of the guys back then were likely popping pills like candy, but they all seem to live to very old (ala reg park, mike katz, larry scott, serge nubret, etc). so they cant be too bad.
yes, of course there were injectables back then. injectable testosterone has been available since about 1937 when it was invented. btw, the inventers, who were from germany/austria, won a nobel peace prize for the discovery. apparently test didn't have the negative connotations back then (the negative connotations are PURELY AND ABSOLUTELY DUE TO THE SPECTRE OF CHEATING which is a really really evil thing to do, don't you know ::))
you've got it ass about face with the 'injectables vs orals' effect on the liver. it is in fact the orals that may cause harm to the liver.
you have to understand, btw, that i wasn't around in the 60s and 70s and i'm obviously going by what i've read and what has been told to me by bbers that used them, but revisionist history is always a riot to me. everyone in the past were good as gold and evil didn't come to the world until...'nowadays' ;D.
from what i've been told, back in the 60s - 70s no one gave a flying fuck about steroids. dianabol and nilevar was as common as protein drinks and just as available. in fact, if you were a novice, there wasn't a hell of a lot of reason to use injectables. dianabol was considered the rolls royce for mass so why inject? save that for the competitors who were into any advantage they could get ie primo and winny were less androgenic and thus used for less bloat pre-contest time .
the only issue, in fact was with weider.
you see weider wanted to keep making a shit load of money from his exorbitantly over priced milk powder and tablets (even chewables ;D). there was no possible way he was going to make money from steroids because he didn't supply them, the pharmacy did and, apart from anything else, they were far cheaper than weider's supplements and they actually worked.
for that reason, weider was more than willing to embellish the 'dangers of steroids' and pimped his bbers with enthusiastic endorsements of his 'all natural
anabolic megapacs' ::), weight gainers and other shit a healthy alternative (yeah right, if you wanted to spend more time in the bathroom than in the gym).
now i don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist but supplement companies do seem to have a fair amount of political power and have been known to, all of a sudden, expound on the 'dangers' of certain drugs in favour of their supplements.
well, steroids was ripe for the kicking because using steroids was...cheating (oooha, just gives ya chills, don't it?). besides, 'who the fuck are these overblown hedonist narcisitic bbers to be using drugs for vanity.' all those steroids turn them into dangerous sexual predators 'who can't get enough'. lock up yer daughters and girlfriends, there's a steroid using bber on the loose. :o
even the medical association and scientist got in on the propoganda machine ie "steroids don't build muscle and certainly don't improve athletic performance." "hell, why would ya want to get big ugly bulky muscles anyway? you'll be muscle bound and cut from the team."
anyway, ill finish. weider is now extremely rich and getting richer, bbers are still endorcing supplements and possessing/using steroids is evil, worse than murder. :-\
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YOu question is in depth have a look at this http://www.steroid.com/Insulin.php
Thanks for the link! Definitely sheds some light and a better understanding on the subject. I read it real quick since I'm off to work but will read it again when I get back.
Thanks again!
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Got that one eactly backward, boss. Orals cycle through the liver twice. Additionally, orals like Anadrol and Halotestin are far more toxic than injectables.
oops, that was a typo. meant it the other way around. by more toxic, any specific doses for orals like dbol and deca (for example) that should be avoided for health reasons?
yes, of course there were injectables back then. injectable testosterone has been available since about 1937 when it was invented. btw, the inventers, who were from germany/austria, won a nobel peace prize for the discovery. apparently test didn't have the negative connotations back then (the negative connotations are PURELY AND ABSOLUTELY DUE TO THE SPECTRE OF CHEATING which is a really really evil thing to do, don't you know ::))
you've got it ass about face with the 'injectables vs orals' effect on the liver. it is in fact the orals that may cause harm to the liver.
you have to understand, btw, that i wasn't around in the 60s and 70s and i'm obviously going by what i've read and what has been told to me by bbers that used them, but revisionist history is always a riot to me. everyone in the past were good as gold and evil didn't come to the world until...'nowadays' ;D.
from what i've been told, back in the 60s - 70s no one gave a flying fuck about steroids. dianabol and nilevar was as common as protein drinks and just as available. in fact, if you were a novice, there wasn't a hell of a lot of reason to use injectables. dianabol was considered the rolls royce for mass so why inject? save that for the competitors who were into any advantage they could get ie primo and winny were less androgenic and thus used for less bloat pre-contest time .
the only issue, in fact was with weider.
you see weider wanted to keep making a shit load of money from his exorbitantly over priced milk powder and tablets (even chewables ;D). there was no possible way he was going to make money from steroids because he didn't supply them, the pharmacy did and, apart from anything else, they were far cheaper than weider's supplements and they actually worked.
for that reason, weider was more than willing to embellish the 'dangers of steroids' and pimped his bbers with enthusiastic endorsements of his 'all natural
anabolic megapacs' ::), weight gainers and other shit a healthy alternative (yeah right, if you wanted to spend more time in the bathroom than in the gym).
now i don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist but supplement companies do seem to have a fair amount of political power and have been known to, all of a sudden, expound on the 'dangers' of certain drugs in favour of their supplements.
well, steroids was ripe for the kicking because using steroids was...cheating (oooha, just gives ya chills, don't it?). besides, 'who the fuck are these overblown hedonist narcisitic bbers to be using drugs for vanity.' all those steroids turn them into dangerous sexual predators 'who can't get enough'. lock up yer daughters and girlfriends, there's a steroid using bber on the loose. :o
even the medical association and scientist got in on the propoganda machine ie "steroids don't build muscle and certainly don't improve athletic performance." "hell, why would ya want to get big ugly bulky muscles anyway? you'll be muscle bound and cut from the team."
anyway, ill finish. weider is now extremely rich and getting richer, bbers are still endorcing supplements and possessing/using steroids is evil, worse than murder. :-\
i think the 'it wont improve ur athletic performance' is out the window now. lol but yeah, supplement companies make a killing from naive teens and guys wanting to get big to get the women. when i think seriously about using drugs, im probably gonna buy one of those steroid handbooks. i think there is a yearly updated one, which lists the drugs and info about them. very interested in what guys in the 70's were using, particularly arnold, for obvious reasons.
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YOu question is in depth have a look at this http://www.steroid.com/Insulin.php
Took a quick look and recognize some of the studies referenced. Like the 2nd one. http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/274/6/E1067?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=insulin+concentrations+1%2C000-fold+&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1134677324826_4651&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=1
Take a look at the dosages used and method of delivery. And this,
Insulin clearly stimulates skeletal muscle protein synthesis in vitro. Surprisingly, this effect has been difficult to reproduce in vivo.
And
It has been suggested that a stimulation of protein synthesis in vivo has been difficult to demonstrate in humans because basal insulin has already maximally stimulated protein synthesis. Three observations suggest that this may not be the case. First, in the current study, very high insulin concentrations do further stimulate protein synthesis.
Studies like this aren't very relevant IMO since, like I said before, bodybuilders use insulin in physiological concentrations.
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oops, that was a typo. meant it the other way around. by more toxic, any specific doses for orals like dbol and deca (for example) that should be avoided for health reasons?
i think the 'it wont improve ur athletic performance' is out the window now. lol but yeah, supplement companies make a killing from naive teens and guys wanting to get big to get the women. when i think seriously about using drugs, im probably gonna buy one of those steroid handbooks. i think there is a yearly updated one, which lists the drugs and info about them. very interested in what guys in the 70's were using, particularly arnold, for obvious reasons.
yes, i do think it would be a good idea for you to buy a good handbook so as to make an educated decision at the very least. one thing you'll learn is that deca is not an oral. ;)
as for arnold. it's all very well that people wish to look like him but you are not alone. i'm guessing pretty much every male person has wanted to look like arnold at one time or another. it might help you to know that, of all the bbers competing during arnold's time, only one looked like arnold. i'll let you figure out which one...
seriously, take a look at yourself in the mirror sans clothes...now imagine what you would look like if your muscles were bigger...that's what you'll look like if/when you build your body by whatever means.
arnold took lots of dianabol, nilevar, primobolan, test...i've also been told he did a lot of site injection, but whatever he did, i guarantee you, it was nothing secretive or that wasn't been done by a million other guys that happened to look nothing like arnold.
genetics are already there bud. put it this way, take a look at arnold when he was about 19 and living in austria. did he really gain much size when he came to usa? or did he just refine what he already had?
how much actual muscle size did shawn ray gain throughout his career and how much different did he look between 1983 and 1993?
now, if genetic freaks like arnold and shawn ray only gain so much muscle and cause so much body change year to year, then what the hell does joe average think he's going to do?
you need to do a reality check first and foremost before you start worrying about what you're intending to put into your body ie how much muscle do you want to add to your frame, how you think added muscle tissue will look on your frame, why do you want to add this muscle, what do you hope to gain/lose, is your primary objective to add a lot of mass, refine what you have or, like most of the male population 'add muscle and lose fat' (as if that one was as simple as it sounds).
there is, however, one thing i can absolutely 100% guarantee you without even seeing you, you WILL NOT look like arnold or any other bber, just you with various combinations and compositions of tissues on you.
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As I understand it, insulin shuttles nutrients into the cells. So, depending on insulin sensitivity, if you eat x amount of carbs your pancreas produces y amount of insulin. And if you eat x + 10x of carbs you will produce y + 10y of insulin. So, assuming you're healthy, your body will always produce sufficient amounts of insulin to process the food that you eat. The more food you eat the more insulin you produce. So how does adding addition insulin have any effect except perhaps suppress your own production? I mean, if you eat x amount of carbs why would having 100x amount of insulin in your system have any anabolic effect?
Well - IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT - answer will come ;)
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This Milos guy scares me
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Took a quick look and recognize some of the studies referenced. Like the 2nd one. http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/274/6/E1067?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=insulin+concentrations+1%2C000-fold+&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1134677324826_4651&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=1
Take a look at the dosages used and method of delivery. And this,
And
Studies like this aren't very relevant IMO since, like I said before, bodybuilders use insulin in physiological concentrations.
VanB, what do you mean by physiological concentrations?
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VanB, what do you mean by physiological concentrations?
not attempting to answer for VanB, but, imo, the big factor is that there has NEVER been a study done with bodybuilding or anabolic intentions.
the only studies known are those done by the bbers themselves (or their gurus) through trial, error and observations made. experienced insulin using pro com bbers would appear to be in a perfect position to advise on this very purpose due to the fact that they are the individuals with the greatest motivation ie literally their livelihood/competitive status DEPENDS directly on their response to peds.
put it this way, to this date (some 70 years after their inception) i am not aware of any formal study on the application of androgenic anabolic steroids for the purpose of bbing competition (probably the closest to a formal study was pete grymkowski's experiment). the exact same situation exists for insulin usage for anabolic/bbing purposes.
consequently, there is NO scientitific/medical recommendation for an appropriate use of anabolic steroids/other peds for bbing competition ie the competitive bbers themselves (or their gurus) have the largest vested interest and the further up the ladder you go ie top flight pro bbers have the greatest vested interest (said livelihood/competitive status) and therefore are the best advisers.
it naturally follows that the gurus are, perhaps, the very top of the line on ped advice since they are able to literally become the scientist ie they are able to analyse results from experiements done with numerous bbers (lab rats) ie they can be subjective with their analysis and have more lab rats to experiment with.
this is the actual reason why pro bbers have their 'trainer/nutritionist/guru' employed to advise them and also why you will NEVER get up to date info from any of the aforementioned via the internet ie if it was available for free why on earth would pro bbers (who make their livelihood from this very information) impart it to anyone and everyone when they pay good money for it. add to this the fact that if their competitors actually learn their secrets, then they have to go looking deeper (and pay more) for the competitive edge. add to this the legal issues involved (no one wants a knock on the door from members of the dea because one of their officers struck a gold mine on the web). add to that the potential earnings for said guru for sale of food supplements that guru promises will have the same effects as peds (hello Milos).
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VanB, what do you mean by physiological concentrations?
An insulin level that is within normal limits for a healthy person. Like I said before, shooting 10IU of insulin doesn't cause wildly supraphysiological (abnormal) insulin levels. That study infused insulin at one thousand times of basal, and it was infused into the forearm along with amino acids. Therefore a study like that can't be used to support someone's theory that shooting insulin causes increased protein synthesis.
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not attempting to answer for VanB, but, imo, the big factor is that there has NEVER been a study done with bodybuilding or anabolic intentions.
the only studies known are those done by the bbers themselves (or their gurus) through trial, error and observations made. experienced insulin using pro com bbers would appear to be in a perfect position to advise on this very purpose due to the fact that they are the individuals with the greatest motivation ie literally their livelihood/competitive status DEPENDS directly on their response to peds.
put it this way, to this date (some 70 years after their inception) i am not aware of any formal study on the application of androgenic anabolic steroids for the purpose of bbing competition (probably the closest to a formal study was pete grymkowski's experiment). the exact same situation exists for insulin usage for anabolic/bbing purposes.
consequently, there is NO scientitific/medical recommendation for an appropriate use of anabolic steroids/other peds for bbing competition ie the competitive bbers themselves (or their gurus) have the largest vested interest and the further up the ladder you go ie top flight pro bbers have the greatest vested interest (said livelihood/competitive status) and therefore are the best advisers.
it naturally follows that the gurus are, perhaps, the very top of the line on ped advice since they are able to literally become the scientist ie they are able to analyse results from experiements done with numerous bbers (lab rats) ie they can be subjective with their analysis and have more lab rats to experiment with.
this is the actual reason why pro bbers have their 'trainer/nutritionist/guru' employed to advise them and also why you will NEVER get up to date info from any of the aforementioned via the internet ie if it was available for free why on earth would pro bbers (who make their livelihood from this very information) impart it to anyone and everyone when they pay good money for it. add to this the fact that if their competitors actually learn their secrets, then they have to go looking deeper (and pay more) for the competitive edge. add to this the legal issues involved (no one wants a knock on the door from members of the dea because one of their officers struck a gold mine on the web). add to that the potential earnings for said guru for sale of food supplements that guru promises will have the same effects as peds (hello Milos).
I want to make clear that I'm not saying insulin use, as prescribed by guys like Milos, doesn't result in bigger bodybuilders. It's just a wanking exercise as to the why.
I know Milos definitely thinks he knows exactly why.... hell, he claims he taught the AMA that diabetics need 10g of sugar per IU of insulin injected LMFAO Now his "research" is in medical textbooks :D :D :D
According to Milos, one just needs to "THINK and the answer is there" :D
Another expert with supposed medical training (Dave Palumbo) claims insulin only works in, and is needed by, "insulin undersecreters" :D
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I want to make clear that I'm not saying insulin use, as prescribed by guys like Milos, doesn't result in bigger bodybuilders. It's just a wanking exercise as to the why.
I know Milos definitely thinks he knows exactly why.... hell, he claims he taught the AMA that diabetics need 10g of sugar per IU of insulin injected LMFAO Now his "research" is in medical textbooks :D :D :D
According to Milos, one just needs to "THINK and the answer is there" :D
;D
this is why i love this site, because there are intelligent people discerning enough to understand the difference between megalomania, fraud and simple common dog fuck.
beats me Van, but apparently Milos' 9 year old daughter knows exactly where to find all of this information from her primary school text books.
"(puts hand up) excuse me mrs bloggs, but if 10 grams of sugar is required per unit of insulin administered by a 200lb shredded bber, how many grams of sugar is needed per unit of insulin in a 350lb bber with 20% body fat? i can't seem to find the answer in this dr seuss hand book???"
::)
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;D
this is why i love this site, because there are intelligent people discerning enough to understand the difference between megalomania, fraud and simple common dog fuck.
beats me Van, but apparently Milos' 9 year old daughter knows exactly where to find all of this information from her primary school text books.
"(puts hand up) excuse me mrs bloggs, but if 10 grams of sugar is required per unit of insulin administered by a 200lb shredded bber, how many grams of sugar is needed per unit of insulin in a 350lb bber with 20% body fat? i can't seem to find the answer in this dr seuss hand book???"
::)
I never listen to someone who can't ever say "I don't know". Bodybuilding is full of guru's who have all the answers. You need that type of attitude to attract a large following of feeble minded sheep. Most people don't want to hear their guru say "I don't know".
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bump for an awesome fucking thread. Especially the part where Van talks about 10iu hardly being a supraphysiological level of insulin I found that suprising.
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Unless someone on here is a board certified endocrinologist they should STFU about insulin. PERIOD!
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« Reply #92 on: December 01, 2007, 03:52:22 AM »
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« Reply #93 on: Today September 30, 2011 at 11:27:05 PM »
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Looks like someone has been going through some very old posts. But here we are, 4 years later, and I still don't know how injecting insulin increases muscle mass. And I don't think an endocrinologist knows either. I once asked my endo and he just told me, "I thought they used steroids to get big. Why would they use insulin unless they are a diabetic." But the guy is like 70 years old and doesn't really follow bodybuilding or any strength related sports.
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Looks like someone has been going through some very old posts. But here we are, 4 years later, and I still don't know how injecting insulin increases muscle mass. And I don't think an endocrinologist knows either. I once asked my endo and he just told me, "I thought they used steroids to get big. Why would they use insulin unless they are a diabetic." But the guy is like 70 years old and doesn't really follow bodybuilding or any strength related sports.
exogen insulin " is reported" to transport nutrients faster/more directly into muscle cells than endogen insulin wich should frist transport nutrients into the liver storage cells and only after that into muscle
but i m against inulin usage in sports so i don t care HOW EXACTLY THE MECHANISM WORKS WICH FUCKS UP THOSE RETARD S BODYS
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exogen insulin " is reported" to transport nutrients faster/more directly into muscle cells than endogen insulin wich should frist transport nutrients into the liver storage cells and only after that into muscle
but i m against inulin usage in sports so i don t care HOW EXACTLY THE MECHANISM WORKS WICH FUCKS UP THOSE RETARD S BODYS
Ok, it gets the nutrients in there faster. How much faster and so what? The nutrients gets in there one way or another. What difference does it make how fast? It can't be more than minutes, maybe 30-45 at the the most? It's just like when they tell say you should have a fast acting protein like whey isolate or hydrowhey and amino acids with simple sugars right after a workout during the (anabolic window) because the nutrients are absorbed and processed faster. OK, but does it really make a real world difference taking a whey isolate shake rather than eating some chicken, corn bread and bake beans like Coleman did?
And why would injecting insulin cause nutrients to go directly into the muscle and by pass the liver but your own insulin won't?
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This Milos guy scares me
It's a marketing scheme...
This is how he builds his clientele.
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Ok, it gets the nutrients in there faster. How much faster and so what? The nutrients gets in there one way or another. What difference does it make how fast? It can't be more than minutes, maybe 30-45 at the the most? It's just like when they tell say you should have a fast acting protein like whey isolate or hydrowhey and amino acids with simple sugars right after a workout during the (anabolic window) because the nutrients are absorbed and processed faster. OK, but does it really make a real world difference taking a whey isolate shake rather than eating some chicken, corn bread and bake beans like Coleman did?
And why would injecting insulin cause nutrients to go directly into the muscle and by pass the liver but your own insulin won't?
well, i m against insulin use ;)
i only repeat what doc told me
and faster means not just faster because faster means that the ratio of nutrients into muscle to nutrients into liver storage goes up
more into muscle less into liver
and this should be anabolic
(i belive short term and catabolic long term), what i conclude means insulin usage will shorten one s bb career)
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Ok, it gets the nutrients in there faster. How much faster and so what? The nutrients gets in there one way or another. What difference does it make how fast? It can't be more than minutes, maybe 30-45 at the the most? It's just like when they tell say you should have a fast acting protein like whey isolate or hydrowhey and amino acids with simple sugars right after a workout during the (anabolic window) because the nutrients are absorbed and processed faster. OK, but does it really make a real world difference taking a whey isolate shake rather than eating some chicken, corn bread and bake beans like Coleman did?
And why would injecting insulin cause nutrients to go directly into the muscle and by pass the liver but your own insulin won't?
has to do with the way exogen insulin enters the body (subcutane) endogen insulin is produced in the pancreas and spreaded from there in specific way (liver cells first) while the injected is available all around the blood stream more equaly (muscle/fat tissue)
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I thought Milos was persona non grata on this board. Plus, I'm not sure if he'd be as honest as gh15. And don't worry about me with insulin. I experimented (unsuccessfully) a while back. When I got my slin in the mail it was warm since I live in a hot climate. I wasn't sure if it still was good so I pinned myself with 5ius and see what would happen. After breaking out in a cold sweat (my whole body was dripping) I managed to down 16 ounces of apple juice that I dumped a half a cup of sugar in before I would pass out. I started to recover within minutes. So I figure everything was good. So you see, I know my way around slin and a 29 gauge needle. I got it all under control.
All under controll.
:D
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:D
Damn, that was back in 2005 when I was still in California. I had just started following bodybuilding again and wonder how guys got so much bigger. I read, and some bodybuilder friends told me, it was insulin. That you take it after your workout with a high carb protein shake and it just crams the nutrients into the muscles. I used Humalog and started with 5iu working my way to 10iu. I did this for a good ten weeks and notice zero difference. It wasn't worth the trouble of bringing a loaded insulin syringe packed in a cold pack to the gym then hide in the bathroom stall while I pinned myself. Of course I didn't know anything about having to also take HGH and all that stuff.
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Damn, that was back in 2005 when I was still in California. I had just started following bodybuilding again and wonder how guys got so much bigger. I read, and some bodybuilder friends told me, it was insulin. That you take it after your workout with a high carb protein shake and it just crams the nutrients into the muscles. I used Humalog and started with 5iu working my way to 10iu. I did this for a good ten weeks and notice zero difference. It wasn't worth the trouble of bringing a loaded insulin syringe packed in a cold pack to the gym then hide in the bathroom stall while I pinned myself. Of course I didn't know anything about having to also take HGH and all that stuff.
Wonder what would've happened with your physique IF you had known 2005!
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Ok, it gets the nutrients in there faster. How much faster and so what? The nutrients gets in there one way or another. What difference does it make how fast? It can't be more than minutes, maybe 30-45 at the the most? It's just like when they tell say you should have a fast acting protein like whey isolate or hydrowhey and amino acids with simple sugars right after a workout during the (anabolic window) because the nutrients are absorbed and processed faster. OK, but does it really make a real world difference taking a whey isolate shake rather than eating some chicken, corn bread and bake beans like Coleman did?
And why would injecting insulin cause nutrients to go directly into the muscle and by pass the liver but your own insulin won't?
Insulin is basically the only way you're able to train twice a day, cause you can keep your glycogen stores full all the time. That's pretty much about it.
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Insulin is basically the only way you're able to train twice a day, cause you can keep your glycogen stores full all the time. That's pretty much about it.
training twice a day makes waists bigger?
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training twice a day makes waists bigger?
No, the tons of food you gotta eat for bulking up to 300 pds makes you waist bigger.
Genetics play a huge role as well of course. You think Wolf takes no Insulin? ::)
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No, the tons of food you gotta eat for bulking up to 300 pds makes you waist bigger.
Genetics play a huge role as well of course. You think Wolf takes no Insulin? ::)
he does, that s why he has a distended midsection
what s your point?
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he does, that s why he has a distended midsection
what s your point?
Oh brother, I bet you dad and tons of your co-workes in your 30s and 40s have a "distended midsection" as well. They all take Slin I guess. ::)
Horrible midsection btw, must be the Slin.
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/_PB23688wtmk.JPG)
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Oh brother, I bet you dad and tons of your co-workes in your 30s and 40s have a "distended midsection" as well. They all take Slin I guess. ::)
Horrible midsection btw, must be the Slin.
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/_PB23688wtmk.JPG)
i can only lol about you
do you remember when you said wolf looks like a swimmerbuild next to warren after this year s AC
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i can only lol about you
do you remember when you said wolf looks like a swimmerbuild next to warren after this year s AC
And what does this have to do with his midsection? ??? Swimmers tend to have tight midsections.
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Are you Guys for real?
This has been going on for 5 full pages and the best theory that anyone could come up with is "well it shuttles nutrients into the muscles"?
That is ony one of the ways insulin works to enhance hyperthropy and is probably not even the major pathway.
Insulin is pro-hyperthropic independent of its nutrient absorption qualities. When muscles sense the presence of insulin, MTOR is turned on at a greater rate. It signals "fed state" among other things and plays an active role in multiple growth related mechanisms guys...
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Wonder what would've happened with your physique IF you had known 2005!
I'd be sporting a suit of blown up marshmellow muscle and placing top 10 in the Mr. O.
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Are you Guys for real?
This has been going on for 5 full pages and the best theory that anyone could come up with is "well it shuttles nutrients into the muscles"?
That is ony one of the ways insulin works to enhance hyperthropy and is probably not even the major pathway.
Insulin is pro-hyperthropic independent of its nutrient absorption qualities. When muscles sense the presence of insulin, MTOR is turned on at a greater rate. It signals "fed state" among other things and plays an active role in multiple growth related mechanisms guys...
What is MTOR?
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First and last time I am forgiving this ridiculous laziness. Next time, follow these steps:
- go to www.google.com
- type in the word or statement you fail to comprehend
- visit the sites that appear in the next page by left clicking on them with your mouse
(please let me know if this procedure is unclear).
MTOR = mammalian target of rapamycin
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First and last time I am forgiving this ridiculous laziness. Next time, follow these steps:
- go to www.google.com
- type in the word or statement you fail to comprehend
- visit the sites that appear in the next page by left clicking on them with your mouse
(please let me know if this procedure is unclear).
MTOR = mammalian target of rapamycin
Thanks genius for your patience. If we should ever meet remind me to kick you in the nuts.
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hahahaha, 6 reps with 365!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a beast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D :o
haha i miss squad papa ;D
Btw Van owning some tiny tits in this thread ;D
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Probably bbers are eatign so much more because of hunger caused by aas as well as hgh, that endogenous production of insulin results in an inefficient absorption of nutrients, it could also be that the slight changes between synthetic insulin and natural insulin cause synthetic insulin to be more anabolic, like methylating a steroid often does.
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To answer Pellius question. It cause muscle to blow up from within.
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To answer Pellius question. It cause muscle to blow up from within.
A little bit more detailed then I wanted but I'll try to work through it.
Thanks!