Why is insulin so effective in adding muscle mass?

[pellius]

Van your post's are always good and informative. What ive always wondered is this... It gets to post work out you take your 10iu shot of slin and then down 1g simple carbs per IU slin. Surely ones natural release after 100g simple carbs is huge (even 50g) and then on top of that the exogenous slin. Surely that’s why it works more effectively when you combine slin with a hi gi hi carb meal? You basically getting a double effect of what would naturally occur. Ive tried low dose shots of slin maxing out at 7iu. Pre work out post work ect , as well as multiple times in a day. I find im very sensitive to the effects. I gained the most dramtic weight with 3 times a day shots which also subsequently lead to the worst side effect. I felt like shit , no appetite , and super lethargic. I gained 4 kgs in a week using slin d-bol , test , EQ and 4 iu gh. Was not worth it and by then end of the week I stopped everything due to sides. The best way for me to use it was post work out in the evening. As I could come home , eat and relax. I gained 3kgs over a 4 week period with sust and deca.I was lucky enough to spend time with a pro and he shot 14iu post work out and that was it. Once a day post work out only. Said it made him feel to shit to take it at any other time. He drank a can of coke and ate 1 cup of rice and a large white potato with that. He also kept 1L of fruit juice with him incase… That’s my experience with slin. Id say post work out is the only way Id use it again. This pre work out story is horse shit , I want to enjoy my training not spin out and fall asleep , its to risky and on top of that I go to gym to train because I LOVE TO TRAIN.

What do you mean when you say that you get double the effect when you inject slin? I understand that when you ingest 100g of simple carbs you get a huge spike of your natural insulin and if in addition to that you pin yourself with 10iu of Humalog so you have even more insulin -- then what? It's not like the 100g of carbs won't be shuttled with your natural insulin production. If you are normal and healthy your pancreas will produce as much or as little as needed. What does the additional amount do? What is this doubling effect? It processes the carbs faster? So what? It can't "double" the shuttling of nutrients because that's fixed and depending entirely on how much you ingest. Still need more nuts and bolts on the anabolic process. With anabolics it's easy to see the relationship. With slin I'm lost.

[pellius]

I think it may be the compounded effect of your natural release due to the hi carb in take and then the exogenous intake. Then again I know some guys that don’t take in a hi gi carb and use a small amount with all their meals. It also has very anti catabolic properties. If you look at bodybuilder who use a lot of slin they have that swollen look and not very hard , I would speculate that Jay uses a shit load of slin hence his hi carb in take all year round even pre contest. He also looks soft when compare him to a lot of other pro’s. So maybe all that weight gain is also a lot of super saturated muscle mass. Im not saying you can get hard on slin im saying some guys just get the swollen look. I know for myself when I started using it 3 times a day I looked like I wanted to pop and I had to stop as guys started telling me I looked like shit with a blue tint! I think once a day post work out it optimal… You may gain more slowly but I’d say you have more quality in your life , if your in it for the long run that’s the way to go.

But it seems to me that it's only his upper body that looks smooth. His legs look dry and rock hard.

[bigbobs]

Milos is 255 and hard at almost 44 years of age.  Amazing.

Nasser is 300 lbs and hard at about the same age.  More Amazing.

[no one]

some guys just don't get it.

it isn't insulin that you see responsible for promoting the gains you are seeing today.

i'm not saying it isnt a factor but is isnt the holy grail of compounds.

all you read on boards are the ignorant ramblings kids who know nothing, have no experience with what they are talking about and just perpetuate the rumor of how insulin is responsible for the changes in physiques in the past 3 decades and it gets repeated until evreyone starts thinking its true.

it is a combination of GH, mid- single gram doses of test each week and insulin that is responsible for these changes, not insulin in and of itself.

anyone who would say insulin is rsponsible for it all has NO idea what they are talking about.

[muscularny]

Insulin for newbies= DEATH

do you ever stop and listen to yourself? has nothing to do if someone is a newbie or not you either know what the fuck your doing or u dont

[muscularny]

some guys just don't get it.

it isn't insulin that you see responsible for promoting the gains you are seeing today.

i'm not saying it isnt a factor but is isnt the holy grail of compounds.

all you read on boards are the ignorant ramblings kids who know nothing, have no experience with what they are talking about and just perpetuate the rumor of how insulin is responsible for the changes in physiques in the past 3 decades and it gets repeated until evreyone starts thinking its true.

it is a combination of GH, mid- single gram doses of test each week and insulin that is responsible for these changes, not insulin in and of itself.

anyone who would say insulin is rsponsible for it all has NO idea what they are talking about.

exactly, insulin came into the picture in about 93 and bamn everyone blew up, nothing else changed and it wasnt the GH as much as people make it out to be and at the time noone took more then 2iu a day of GH it was unheard of and slin was 5iu max pre workout or post and as everyone kept upping everything the waists grew and grew levrone ray and all others back then had 0 gut and all where taking slin

[BEAST 8692]

"...it is a combination of GH, mid- single gram doses of test each week and insulin that is responsible for these changes, not insulin in and of itself..."


40s - 50s test only

50s - 70s test + anabolics + orals

70s - 80s test + anabolics + orals + gh (late 70s)

80s - 90s test + anabolics + orals + gh + slin + igf 1.

90s - now test + anabolics + orals + gh + slin + igf 1 IN MUCH HIGHER DOSAGES.

dosages: always went up and up right from the begining. humans being humans = if a little is good a lot is better and when it comes to hormones, unfortunately they were right. receptors get saturated, want to be a larger contestant, must stay large during off season ie no break ie up the dosage for anabolic effect.

sadly, i think milos is a much better con artist than i had previously thought. many of you really believe what he says including his utter bullshit that todays competitive bbers never go over 1 g total test pw. seriously, he must laugh his ass off every time he posts on this board. i'll let you numptys in on a little secret, MILOS IS NOT GOING TO SHARE HIS DRUG SECRETS WITH THE GETBIG BRAIN TRUST. if i was sure of that much, i was certain that no one here would believe him when he said that he ONLY takes insulin to maintain 255 cut. no hormones? wrong again. i must be the one with my head all fucked up. i mean, sure, milos is the freak exception to the rule that bbers with 30 + years of consisant comp bbing ie 30 + years of consistant hormone usage at super high levels is going to be producing more natural hormones post career, 45 yrs, cut 255lbs, NO HRT!!!. ok, makes sense.

morons on her actually believe a man who mainlines synthol, doesn't question for a second what chad had told him to take for a comp (not dosage, drug name, nada, just puts his complete faith in a drug dealer and proceeds to literally fry himself) and tells the world that test and insulin are health tonics.

yeah sure, if milos says that no pro bber takes more than 1 g of total test pw and guys like ronnie and jay actually take less then it must be true. never mind the fact that he gets $500 per hour for providing less, but he's going to tell the entire getbig board (who he holds with contempt) for free.

"hey ronnie, what did you take for the 2003 olympia?"

"ahem, coughbullshitcoughcough, 750mg of sustanon per week, insulin and a little gh."

"cool ronnie. thanks man, you're the best."

never mind that only a conservative novice recreational gym bber ('i don't wanna compete man') might take this cycle, but a professional bber who doesn't even look human anymore with nearly 300lbs of pure muscle on his 5'10" frame takes the same amounts. absolutely believable, it's like a 'one size fits all' deal.

1997 yates took the same amount and type of gear as 80s haney did, as joe gymbody novice did, as aunt ethel did. it must have been high intensity training that completely altered dorian and ronnie's appearance from bber to freak alien between the 1990 and 2000.

"hey there my diabetic little buddy, better not accidently take too much insulin or you'll wake up with 50lbs of ripped muscle tissue hanging off you. don't say i didn't warn ya. milos told me so."

thankyou, i feel better now.

carry on...

[GoneAway]

50s - 70s test + anabolics + orals

any specific anabolics?

do u know what arnold was taking in the late 60's - mid 70's? specific drugs, dosages, etc?

[BEAST 8692]

any specific anabolics?

do u know what arnold was taking in the late 60's - mid 70's? specific drugs, dosages, etc?

no one was specific during the 60s and 70s. they would take dballs and nilevar all day like they were popping peanuts, for example, and when in doubt they'd take a handful more. arnold was no different from everything i've read, but good luck finding any info on exactly what he took because i seriously doubt he'd even know, even if he or anyone else in his tight group would tell you. sure as fuck, nobody else is going to tell you. how would they know all anyone has ever done when it comes to arnold's drug regimen is guess, based on what was available at the time and what everyone was doing.

no one knew what dosages to take. it was entirely hit or miss, but if you even look at this logically (take a good hard look at the obsessive, narcisistic screwballs that compete) if an 18" arm is good, a 19" arm is better and a 20" arm is mr olympia correlates with, if 100mg dball pd is good, 200mgs is better....no one knew because there was absolutely no science to it. the medical community were still adamantly testifying that steroids didn't make you bigger and stronger so you know the bbers weren't listening to them.

if you were preparing for a contest that was going to make or break you and you were getting dianabol, test, deca, primobolan, winnie, etc dirt cheap and so and so told you that joe big guy was taking this much, now wouldn't you be prepared to take a little more and then a little more and...meanwhile, you're staving yourself to senility on your 3rd and last can of tuna for the day and the question arises in your head, "should i take more or not?" HELL YEAH! remember, they were perfectly legal and nobody even knew about sides back then. i mean, you're going to smoke a pack a day cigarettes, drink a bottle of jacks, snort coke all day, inject meth but you're not going to take more anabolics?

[GetBigOrDieTrying]

What do you mean when you say that you get double the effect when you inject slin? I understand that when you ingest 100g of simple carbs you get a huge spike of your natural insulin and if in addition to that you pin yourself with 10iu of Humalog so you have even more insulin -- then what? It's not like the 100g of carbs won't be shuttled with your natural insulin production. If you are normal and healthy your pancreas will produce as much or as little as needed. What does the additional amount do? What is this doubling effect? It processes the carbs faster? So what? It can't "double" the shuttling of nutrients because that's fixed and depending entirely on how much you ingest. Still need more nuts and bolts on the anabolic process. With anabolics it's easy to see the relationship. With slin I'm lost.

Basically the way I understand it is that you have a compounded effect which basically shoves Nutrients into your muscle so you become super saturated. Im not the right person to ask though but basically that’s how I understand it to work. Think fuel injected engine

[njflex]

very cool read,and unfortunatly a very realistic look out how drug pharmacology plays a vital role in hardcore bbing.but yes some local gym rats push the same envelope as the more experienced amateurs and pro's  ..

[pellius]

Basically the way I understand it is that you have a compounded effect which basically shoves Nutrients into your muscle so you become super saturated. Im not the right person to ask though but basically that’s how I understand it to work. Think fuel injected engine

That's where I  get loss. If you take 150 grams of simple carbs they will get "shoved" into the cells with your own nature insulin production. Now it may be that with an addition of 10 ius of slin you get it done faster but I don't understand this super saturation. I mean, the 150 grams get shoved in one way or another. Whether by natural means or helped along with those 10 ius.

[Van_Bilderass]

"...it is a combination of GH, mid- single gram doses of test each week and insulin that is responsible for these changes, not insulin in and of itself..."


40s - 50s test only

50s - 70s test + anabolics + orals

70s - 80s test + anabolics + orals + gh (late 70s)

80s - 90s test + anabolics + orals + gh + slin + igf 1.

90s - now test + anabolics + orals + gh + slin + igf 1 IN MUCH HIGHER DOSAGES.

dosages: always went up and up right from the begining. humans being humans = if a little is good a lot is better and when it comes to hormones, unfortunately they were right. receptors get saturated, want to be a larger contestant, must stay large during off season ie no break ie up the dosage for anabolic effect.

sadly, i think milos is a much better con artist than i had previously thought. many of you really believe what he says including his utter bullshit that todays competitive bbers never go over 1 g total test pw. seriously, he must laugh his ass off every time he posts on this board. i'll let you numptys in on a little secret, MILOS IS NOT GOING TO SHARE HIS DRUG SECRETS WITH THE GETBIG BRAIN TRUST. if i was sure of that much, i was certain that no one here would believe him when he said that he ONLY takes insulin to maintain 255 cut. no hormones? wrong again. i must be the one with my head all fucked up. i mean, sure, milos is the freak exception to the rule that bbers with 30 + years of consisant comp bbing ie 30 + years of consistant hormone usage at super high levels is going to be producing more natural hormones post career, 45 yrs, cut 255lbs, NO HRT!!!. ok, makes sense.

morons on her actually believe a man who mainlines synthol, doesn't question for a second what chad had told him to take for a comp (not dosage, drug name, nada, just puts his complete faith in a drug dealer and proceeds to literally fry himself) and tells the world that test and insulin are health tonics.

yeah sure, if milos says that no pro bber takes more than 1 g of total test pw and guys like ronnie and jay actually take less then it must be true. never mind the fact that he gets $500 per hour for providing less, but he's going to tell the entire getbig board (who he holds with contempt) for free.

"hey ronnie, what did you take for the 2003 olympia?"

"ahem, coughbullshitcoughcough, 750mg of sustanon per week, insulin and a little gh."

"cool ronnie. thanks man, you're the best."

never mind that only a conservative novice recreational gym bber ('i don't wanna compete man') might take this cycle, but a professional bber who doesn't even look human anymore with nearly 300lbs of pure muscle on his 5'10" frame takes the same amounts. absolutely believable, it's like a 'one size fits all' deal.

1997 yates took the same amount and type of gear as 80s haney did, as joe gymbody novice did, as aunt ethel did. it must have been high intensity training that completely altered dorian and ronnie's appearance from bber to freak alien between the 1990 and 2000.

"hey there my diabetic little buddy, better not accidently take too much insulin or you'll wake up with 50lbs of ripped muscle tissue hanging off you. don't say i didn't warn ya. milos told me so."

thankyou, i feel better now.

carry on...

 


In a February 2000 e-mail exchange with Arnold, Sarcev expressed interest in designer supplements and diuretics for an imminent competition.

"Let me know where to send money, gold or kidneys," Sarcev replied after Arnold quoted him a price of 100 dollars a gram for "miracle stuff" called Norbolethone.

"I can over night it." Sarcev offered himself as "a good guinea pig" because he had "tried everything" and added he worked "with many other monkeys (that would like to become gorillas)."

[pellius]

some guys just don't get it.

it isn't insulin that you see responsible for promoting the gains you are seeing today.

i'm not saying it isnt a factor but is isnt the holy grail of compounds.

all you read on boards are the ignorant ramblings kids who know nothing, have no experience with what they are talking about and just perpetuate the rumor of how insulin is responsible for the changes in physiques in the past 3 decades and it gets repeated until evreyone starts thinking its true.

it is a combination of GH, mid- single gram doses of test each week and insulin that is responsible for these changes, not insulin in and of itself.

anyone who would say insulin is rsponsible for it all has NO idea what they are talking about.

Perhaps, but competitive bodybuilders themselves claim it's wonders. gh15 claims to have won a few shows solely based on the addition of insulin.

[DK II]

In a February 2000 e-mail exchange with Arnold, Sarcev expressed interest in designer supplements and diuretics for an imminent competition.

"Let me know where to send money, gold or kidneys," Sarcev replied after Arnold quoted him a price of 100 dollars a gram for "miracle stuff" called Norbolethone.

"I can over night it." Sarcev offered himself as "a good guinea pig" because he had "tried everything" and added he worked "with many other monkeys (that would like to become gorillas)."

so are you Arnold or did you just hack his email account?

[GetBigOrDieTrying]

That's where I  get loss. If you take 150 grams of simple carbs they will get "shoved" into the cells with your own nature insulin production. Now it may be that with an addition of 10 ius of slin you get it done faster but I don't understand this super saturation. I mean, the 150 grams get shoved in one way or another. Whether by natural means or helped along with those 10 ius.

Think of it as making the process more efficient MUCH more. Like others said I wouldn’t single it out as the sole reason guys are getting huge, it’s a combination of hard training , food, and other drugs.  Bud I don’t understand the exact science behind it and we are going around in circles. You don’t need to understand exactly how electricity works just the basic principles which is all you need to know in order to use it.  I know what slin is going to do for me and I know how not to hurt myself on it. Im couldn’t get to excited about the complex workings of it…

[KillerMonk]

My good friend and x training partner has been using insulin and HGH and other stacks of steroids that would make GH15 proud and has gained over 25 pounds in one year when he was stuck at the same weight for a few years.

He has cracked 300 pounds at 6,2 15% bodyfat would be my guess if he dieted for a show he be atleast 260pounds he says that he only takes it post workout with a couple of litres of orange juice and creatine. When he first asked me about doing it i was dead against it as it was an unreasonable risk but he got it down pat with another BB.

I asked if i could post some pitures of him with his face disguised and he threatened to smash the shit out of me if i did, Funny thing is he does not follow BB just the lifestyle ask him who are a few top BBs and he gives a vacant stare and shrugs his shoulders.

One thing is he is very smart in buisness and work and wears a suit not your typical BB and he regulary sees a Doctor and the Doctor freaked out when he said he was using insulin but the main thing is that he is healthy.

In saying all this i would not touch insulin with 12 foot barge poll no matter what beneficial affects they are

[muscularny]

My good friend and x training partner has been using insulin and HGH and other stacks of steroids that would make GH15 proud and has gained over 25 pounds in one year when he was stuck at the same weight for a few years.

He has cracked 300 pounds at 6,2 15% bodyfat would be my guess if he dieted for a show he be atleast 260pounds he says that he only takes it post workout with a couple of litres of orange juice and creatine. When he first asked me about doing it i was dead against it as it was an unreasonable risk but he got it down pat with another BB.

I asked if i could post some pitures of him with his face disguised and he threatened to smash the shit out of me if i did, Funny thing is he does not follow BB just the lifestyle ask him who are a few top BBs and he gives a vacant stare and shrugs his shoulders.

One thing is he is very smart in buisness and work and wears a suit not your typical BB and he regulary sees a Doctor and the Doctor freaked out when he said he was using insulin but the main thing is that he is healthy.

In saying all this i would not touch insulin with 12 foot barge poll no matter what beneficial affects they are

great bullshit story best so far in this thread

Number 1 every schmuck says the same shit on these forums "slin will make you fat" "slin will kill you" "id never touch slin" BULL fucking SHIT!

The post workout only part of your story sounds good for those who dont understand timing of slin, you obviously repeated crap you read and turned it into a nice story.

Oh and he didnt know who the top guys are, yup great bullshit!

But the touch I like most of your post is instead of waiting for people to ask you to post pics of your "friend" and then you responding with a bullshit excuse you covered yourself right away.

Fucking jerkoff

[KillerMonk]

great bullshit story best so far in this thread

Number 1 every schmuck says the same shit on these forums "slin will make you fat" "slin will kill you" "id never touch slin" BULL fucking SHIT!

The post workout only part of your story sounds good for those who dont understand timing of slin, you obviously repeated crap you read and turned it into a nice story.

Oh and he didnt know who the top guys are, yup great bullshit!

But the touch I like most of your post is instead of waiting for people to ask you to post pics of your "friend" and then you responding with a bullshit excuse you covered yourself right away.

Fucking jerkoff

Well his 300 pounds and im not ive known most of my adult life so i must be in Fairy land

[KillerMonk]

Also he came in contact with a dealer for HGH and Slin and i know first hand who he is so my freind is not lying to me if you thinks its bullshit that your call, ive known him for 10 years and he does not lie

[pellius]

Think of it as making the process more efficient MUCH more. Like others said I wouldn’t single it out as the sole reason guys are getting huge, it’s a combination of hard training , food, and other drugs.  Bud I don’t understand the exact science behind it and we are going around in circles. You don’t need to understand exactly how electricity works just the basic principles which is all you need to know in order to use it.  I know what slin is going to do for me and I know how not to hurt myself on it. Im couldn’t get to excited about the complex workings of it…

You make a good point about not having to know how electricity works to apply it in the practical world. How many people know how their computer or even their cars work yet use them everyday. I guess when you are dealing with your body and health it puts a different perspective on things. Also, there's a reason that many athletes with little formal education on nutrition, drugs and medicine could run rings around a Harvard trained physician in these specialized areas. They're just passionately interested on the subject and have a vested interest. So when  someone says an NO based product like SuperPump or NO-Xplode will do this or that, we ask why and does it make sense. Whether creatine works for you or not the reasoning behind is sound. Anabolic hormones effectiveness are also fairly easy to understand despite years of sincere denial by the medical community. This is what we are interested in and this is what we do. I have a friend who knows everything about every prohormone on the market. Just likes researching and reading about the stuff and trying to understand the nuts and bolts. Same thing here. I want to know how my lap top works. I want to know how my car runs.

So when you say that exo insulin makes the process much more efficient I ask myself what do you mean by more efficient. If you naturally need say (figures and units are arbitrary) 1 unit of natural insulin to process 10 units of carbs what happens when you now have an extra 50 units of insulin to process that same 10 units of carbs? What happens? Does it get processed faster? Does it get push "deeper" into the cell? And why would it make any difference? Those 10 units of carbs are going to be process by a healthy individual whether or not he pins himself with slin.

Not trying to be a dick but just picking the brains on this board hopefully leading toward a better understanding.

[FrenchFrie]

heh.

Nobody seems to know....everybody is always yelling that insulin did that and insulin that - but nobody seems to know why insulin would give a shit... Stop acting like fucking doctors if you don't know a shit about anything

less than 1% of the posters on here have a clue about what they re talking about on a daily basis anyway.

[DK II]

less than 1% of the posters on here have a clue about what they re talking about on a daily basis anyway.

...what you just proofed beautifully...

[FrenchFrie]

...what you just proofed beautifully...

"proved" u mean?

u used to be nicer to me in the past, why the hate.

I never talk about things i have no clue about.

[DK II]

"proved" u mean?

u used to be nicer to me in the past, why the hate.

I never talk about things i have no clue about.

Oh yes, "proved". Thanks for the nice hint, i appreciate it.

It's a sad thing, but most people here claim they never talk about things they have no clue about, but it seems they have no clue that they have no clue.

Which is kind of a dilemma.