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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: rick brophy on December 13, 2007, 05:38:06 PM
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I broke my max today doing deadlifts and when I finished, my lower back kind of hurt. Like right above my ass, the very lowest part of my back. It still hurts, like mainly when I lean over to pick something up ( it's only like 3 hours later right now ).
I've had back problems before, and I know that the I should just avoid deadlifts/bent over rows/squats until it starts to feel better, I don't think this is too serious, but is there anything else I should do to make it feel better, faster?
Any advice would be appreciated.
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I broke my max today doing deadlifts and when I finished, my lower back kind of hurt. Like right above my ass, the very lowest part of my back. It still hurts, like mainly when I lean over to pick something up ( it's only like 3 hours later right now ).
I've had back problems before, and I know that the I should just avoid deadlifts/bent over rows/squats until it starts to feel better, I don't think this is too serious, but is there anything else I should do to make it feel better, faster?
Any advice would be appreciated.
I would do a few things. First, don't deadlift for a while. I had the same problem and I stopped doing deadlifts. I pulled a lot and continually hurt my back but thought it was normal until I really did it. I was hurt for a while. I think you will be fine on rows and squats but really look at what you want to accomplish with your body. If it is PLing then deads are a must but I would think your form is bad to hurt yourself. I hurt in the same area you mention (sciatic) and if you fuck with that enough you will have lasting problems. The back is an unforgiving bodypart.
I would stretch that as often as possible. It's hard to explain the stretches so I would google them but do them a lot. PM "joelocal" for some good tips. He really helped me a lot with rehab. Once it is healed I would prehab that area and if your goals dictate, move onto another exercise. I Olympic Clean now and my back is thicker top to bottom with no injuries.
On top of stretches, apply ice and heat. I'm not one for pain meds or OTC NSAIDs for healing but you may like them. PM me if you want. Good luck.
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Great example of the danger of DLs. Not essential IMO, if you have to do em keep the reps high, do rack pulls/partials, do hypers or just let the back work indirectly from other exercises like squats and rows.
Don't do anything that puts direct pressure on the back, take it easy for 1-3 weeks as needed, otherwise you could reaggrevate it and make it worse.
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Thanks for the advice. I'm mainly annoyed because I have to sit through a 2 hour bus ride tomorrow and I know that's going to make it feel like shit. I've been using a heating pad for a bit and it's starting to feel slightly better.
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Thanks for the advice. I'm mainly annoyed because I have to sit through a 2 hour bus ride tomorrow and I know that's going to make it feel like shit. I've been using a heating pad for a bit and it's starting to feel slightly better.
Best advice you can get: see a doctor.
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I have herntiated discs over and over again. Having said that though, I would still LOOOOVE to deadlift again. You can't blame the exercise for your injury, it's your unpreparedness for it. Do as pumpster said-do your hypers, do some supermen, do some machine back extension if you have access and then go back to it if you feel up for it. But from the symptoms you are describing it sounds like you could have already herniated a disc(if only slightly). Whenever you sit down, you should have some lumber support. I seriously used to carry around a rolled up t-shirt to put behind me whereever I went. This makes sitting so much more comfortable it's not even funny. Otherwise, if you're anything like me, sitting for two hours would be torture.
Last, when you are symptomatic like you are now-do some Mckenzie(sp?) exercises. Basically lay totally flat and push your upper body, hips flat to the floor as high as you can get it-this is a way of manually pushing the discs back in. Hold each rep for a full 20 sec and do 5 reps or so, up to 5x daily.
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I broke my max today doing deadlifts and when I finished, my lower back kind of hurt. Like right above my ass, the very lowest part of my back. It still hurts, like mainly when I lean over to pick something up ( it's only like 3 hours later right now ).
I've had back problems before, and I know that the I should just avoid deadlifts/bent over rows/squats until it starts to feel better, I don't think this is too serious, but is there anything else I should do to make it feel better, faster?
Any advice would be appreciated.
This sounds like the typical ass-muscle-being-short-thing.
Check this:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/stretches.php?MainMuscle=Glutes
Especially the Seated floor twist, I do a version of this, always before squatting. Standing I put the knee on an incline bench and twist. It should stretch back up in the ass.
I do it before I am warm, as well. My sports therapist told me it would be better that way. I usually crack out the back a little this way too. 8)
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Great example of the danger of DLs. Not essential IMO, if you have to do em keep the reps high, or do hypers instead of just let the back work from other exercises like squats and rows.
Don't do anything that puts direct pressure on the back, take it easy for 1-3 weeks as needed, otherwise you could reaggrevate it and make it worse.
High rep deadlifts? Bad idea.
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i know the thing that helps me is first off always wearing a tank top tucked in my shorts to keep constant warmth on the area and stretching is huge when you first get out of the shower and right before you start lifting...and if the pain does get to intense a couple of naproxen sodium or aleve before working out (its not a good idea) but times when you just want to lift and want to get rid of that pain for a bit...youll pay for it though....STRETCH it is vital to everyone and anyone but especially to someone with a lingering injury..
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If it turns out there's nothing seriously wrong, epsom salt is your friend. Amazing how it can really speed healing of minor injuries, strains and pains.
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High rep deadlifts? Bad idea.
Agreed, i'm not saying go crazy heavy and do 3-4 reps but higher reps leads to more injuries, as I can attest too. 5,6,7 reps works fine imo
They need to be done properly and the benefits are huge! How many times does it need to be said!?
ta ta
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Agreed, i'm not saying go crazy heavy and do 3-4 reps but higher reps leads to more injuries, as I can attest too. 5,6,7 reps works fine imo
They need to be done properly and the benefits are huge! How many times does it need to be said!?
ta ta
also i think ive noticed people who try to do dead lifts to fast...ive seen a couple of guys one i was lifitng with for a bit go to fast and completely pull or throw their lower back...if you slow down drop the wight a little and focus on the movement and position of your body from your feet to your head i believe you can see some really good gains from...
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also i think ive noticed people who try to do dead lifts to fast...ive seen a couple of guys one i was lifitng with for a bit go to fast and completely pull or throw their lower back...if you slow down drop the wight a little and focus on the movement and position of your body from your feet to your head i believe you can see some really good gains from...
Amen to that.
I agree with Pumpster that they can be a danger and people do let their ego take over, this leads to dogshit form and then injury.
You need to go heavybut not at the expense of form or your spine!
ta ta
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thats what im sayin maaaa but that also applies to working out period...also movements and exercises i actually was a victim of this when i first started working out but i have learned alot and really try and focus now on positioning and concentration on the negative rep as well as the positive trying to get maximum muscle strain...im not huge YET but i will be...
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I broke my max today doing deadlifts and when I finished, my lower back kind of hurt. Like right above my ass, the very lowest part of my back. It still hurts, like mainly when I lean over to pick something up ( it's only like 3 hours later right now ).
I've had back problems before, and I know that the I should just avoid deadlifts/bent over rows/squats until it starts to feel better, I don't think this is too serious, but is there anything else I should do to make it feel better, faster?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Good advice here from mods and members.
Question(s) for you:
Is the pain you feel directly in the center of the back, or is it a bit off to the side?
And if so, does one side hurt more than the other?
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High rep deadlifts? Bad idea.
Without explanation as to the reasoning behind this, this is baseless.
Weight lifting 101: going heavier with lower reps puts more stress on joints and connective tissue, and isn't as effective as moderate reps for muscle growth.
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Agreed, i'm not saying go crazy heavy and do 3-4 reps but higher reps leads to more injuries, as I can attest too. 5,6,7 reps works fine imo
They need to be done properly and the benefits are huge! How many times does it need to be said!?
ta ta
There's no reason at all why higher reps would be a problem; if it happened to you it's quite possible that you were doing something else in conjunction with the higher reps to cause it.
It's actually quite the opposite from my experience. Coleman's a good example of what i'm talking about; he stays with 10-15 reps per set both because it's better for growth and because lower reps and higher weights is far harsher on the joints and connective tissues-good just once in a while for selling DVDs but not for everyday training or development.
This is basic stuff; low reps and very heavy weight is much harder on the body.
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Good advice here from mods and members.
Question(s) for you:
Is the pain you feel directly in the center of the back, or is it a bit off to the side?
And if so, does one side hurt more than the other?
It's primarily in the center but I'm tilting back and forth right now and I think it hurts a little bit extra on the right side.
Also after a night's sleep it hurts just as bad now as it did before. This bus ride is going to suck.
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Have you given any reason why higher reps would be more dangerous? I think the reasons why higher reps would be more safe are very obvious and self explanatory, I'm interested in why you think what you do.
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imho couldnt you consider that lighter wieght higher reps would equal more muscle fatigue by set and cause the oppurtunity for bad form and injury? but i also think the same could be said about to heavy a wieght....like i said imho all i can say i know as far as this is concerned is i love dead lifts do them every back day and always keep my rep range between 8 for my heavy sets and 12 for lighter....but the 8 reps on my heavy sets i could do 10 with i just concentrate hard on form and control...if that makes any sense to anyone but myself i dont know..?
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Hurt my back doing rack deads a few weeks ago......recurring back problems for the last few years.
No more squats or deads for me for a while anyway. :(
If you have access to a reverse hyperextension machine get on it fast....great for re-habbing lower back injuries.
Higher reps with slow prgressive weight increases but do them in good form.
I swear by this exercise for helping my back in the past.
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Hurt my back doing rack deads a few weeks ago......recurring back problems for the last few years.
No more squats or deads for me for a while anyway. :(
If you have access to a reverse hyperextension machine get on it fast....great for re-habbing lower back injuries.
Higher reps with slow prgressive weight increases but do them in good form.
I swear by this exercise for helping my back in the past.
great advice here....or just do hyperextensions on a roman chair apparatus. Fixes the lower back in no time!
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If you have access to a reverse hyperextension machine get on it fast.
do hyperextensions on a roman chair apparatus.
Links to photos of these? I'd love to be able to work on it so that it will heal faster. It hurts enough right now that I wouldn't even be comfortable doing cardio. But I've been walking around and it's starting to feel a little bit better.
Thanks guys.
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It's primarily in the center but I'm tilting back and forth right now and I think it hurts a little bit extra on the right side.
Also after a night's sleep it hurts just as bad now as it did before. This bus ride is going to suck.
Okay.
Not saying it is, but it may be that your sacroiliac (SI) is out. The SI is the small triangular bone that sits on either sides of the lumbar. You can see these joints from the outside as two small dimples on each side of the lower back at the belt line.
A lot of people will mistake SI pain as a pulled/sprained muscle.
Either way, if the pain doesn’t start getting better after another week or so, I would consult a good PT or Chiropractor.
Good luck.
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High-rep deadlifts = injury prone because of form degradation with each rep. Don't take much to injure back with bad form.
But who would want a massive lower back pump anyway?
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High-rep deadlifts = injury prone because of form degradation with each rep. Don't take much to injure back with bad form.
But who would want a massive lower back pump anyway?
thats what i was saying only a lot shorter same shit though....right on...i love dead lifts though i cant explain why but i do...
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High-rep deadlifts = injury prone because of form degradation with each rep. Don't take much to injure back with bad form.
But who would want a massive lower back pump anyway?
The idea that higher reps = injury due to fatigue is absurd. The same fatigue can happen with 3 reps if the weight's heavy enough.
Same with form BTW, has nothing to do with rep numbers.
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The idea that higher reps = injury due to fatigue is absurd. The same fatigue can happen with 3 reps if the weight's heavy enough.
hey pump i said that also in my earlier post...know matter what deadlifts are a great move imho..
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Hurt my back doing rack deads a few weeks ago......recurring back problems for the last few years.
No more squats or deads for me for a while anyway. :(
If you have access to a reverse hyperextension machine get on it fast....great for re-habbing lower back injuries.
Higher reps with slow prgressive weight increases but do them in good form.
I swear by this exercise for helping my back in the past.
Of course. By their nature, hypers are almost always high reps, low resistance and thus easier on the back, much like doing high rep deads or better yet, rack pulls.
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imho couldnt you consider that lighter wieght higher reps would equal more muscle fatigue by set and cause the oppurtunity for bad form and injury? but i also think the same could be said about to heavy a wieght....
Of course; this is lifting 101. If the weight's heavier, the fatigue can happen much more quickly. So can form degradation.
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The idea that higher reps = injury due to fatigue is absurd. The same fatigue can happen with 3 reps if the weight's heavy enough.
Same with form BTW, has nothing to do with reps.
Weight is irrelevant, its the form--->always degrades with reps, goes for any exercise, and especially dangerous and prevalent with deadlifts.
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Weight is irrelevant, its the form--->always degrades with reps, goes for any exercise, and especially dangerous and prevalent with deadlifts.
Form has nothing to do with rep numbers, it has to do with compromises that are encountered as fatigue sets in using any combo of reps and weight.
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Form has nothing to do with rep numbers, it has to do with compromises that are encountered as fatigue sets in.
I think its a combination of form getting worse with reps and also fatigue setting in (I disagree that form has nothing to do with rep numbers). But higher reps will induce more fatigue, so either way it seems like a good idea to do lower reps (using a weiht you can handle).
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Of course. By their nature, hypers are almost always high reps, low resistance and thus easier on the back, much like doing high rep deads or better yet, rack pulls.
I`m talking about reverse hypers here,not regular hyperextensions.
When I first got hurt I could barely do a few reps with just bodyweight but worked up to 190 for 5 over time............my previously messed up back felt much better....great for the whole posterior chain.
I`d go light at first then slowly add weight gradually,then mix up heavy and lighter days doing both high and low reps.
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i dont know what the hell to call it but you guys ever try doing upper body raise, where your calves are held down by pads and you are facing the ground at 90 degrees then raise up to be paralel to the floor? those work pretty good also, you can throw a twist in the movement and get some rear oblique action...
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Great example of the danger of DLs. Not essential IMO, if you have to do em keep the reps high, do rack pulls/partials, do hypers or just let the back work indirectly from other exercises like squats and rows.
Don't do anything that puts direct pressure on the back, take it easy for 1-3 weeks as needed, otherwise you could reaggrevate it and make it worse.
how does anyone that uses a bowflex get in a position to offer advice to people who train with weights anyways ?
I love hearing people who don't have that nads to pull once a week say it's not worth it,it's easier to figure out who the lightweights are .
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how does anyone that uses a bowflex get in a position to offer advice to people who train with weights anyways ?
I love hearing people who don't have that nads to pull once a week say it's not worth it,it's easier to figure out who the lightweights are .
Dude your reasoning & logic in some of these threads is shaky at best, so is this post LOL especially your need to try to feel better about yourself by attacking others.
FYI Vince Basile feels the same way about deads as i do; it's just an opinion, for which there's no reason for you to meltdown and attack others manhood-that's seriously infantile shit. Besides which, he actually won something, unlike you. Between he and i we've forgotten more training info than you currently know, and i'm not the least bit worried about attempts to question others manhood when as far as i know you weight around 150 lb.
FYI "geo" there's nothing wrong with a bowflex, and i doubt you have sufficient experience with one to be able to explain any problems with it from direct experience-what exactly is your experience with one? gh15 one of the most knowledgable guys on here and a real BB unlike you, would not agree with your analysis. Can you tell me honestly that you can bench 410 lb. on a bow for 15 reps? If not, try being smarter and work out more instead of more baseless claims.
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it's just an opinion,
that's exactly my point kid,anyone who's ever lifted wieghts would'nt waste their time dickin around with a bowflex, so that tells me you've never had any success in the weight room, so how the hell can you offer advice unless you just sit there and repeat stuff you've heard other people (that actually lift) have given...
let me ask ya this,
have ya ever deadlifted before ?
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that's exactly my point kid,anyone who's ever lifted wieghts would'nt waste their time dickin around with a bowflex, so that tells me you've never had any success in the weight room, so how the hell can you offer advice unless you just sit there and repeat stuff you've heard other people (that actually lift) have given...
let me ask ya this,
have ya ever deadlifted before ?
Seriously your words reek of resentful redneck shit. I doubt you could keep up with me in the weight room son LOL
Still haven't answered my question as to your direct experience with a bowflex and whether you can bench the max. resistance on it. If you can't, i'd say you're really talking out your ass. Both gh15 and bob chick have no trouble with it because they're secure in their masculinity unlike you, don't have to see weights going up and down to prove anything.
Hope this helps
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Seriously your words reek of resentful redneck shit. I doubt you could keep up with me in the weight room son LOL
Still haven't answered my question as to your direct experience with a bowflex and whether you can bench the max. resistance on it. If you can't, i'd say you're really talking out your ass. Both gh15 and bob chick have no trouble with it because they're secure in their masculinity unlike you, don't have to see weights going up and down to prove anything.
Hope this helps
calm down porky,no need to get riled up,to answer your question about using a bowflex,no,absolutely not,why would I waste my time ?
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calm down porky,no need to get riled up,to answer your question about using a bowflex,no,absolutely not,why would I waste my time ?
Relax my beligerent little one, your attacks went nowhere. As far as the bow, proof positive that you're talking out your ass once again. By now you should've learned not to talk and make assumptions about things you don't know about. Did you complete high school? You reek of blue-collar resentment.
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Now the lil tough guy with issues has reported posts to moderator, after attacking like a rabid dog he can't take it bwhaahahahahahaha
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Now the lil tough guy with issues has reported posts to moderator, after attacking like a rabid dog he can't take it bwhaahahahahahaha
hahahaa, he's been doing that for years.
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Relax my beligerent little one, your attacks went nowhere. As far as the bow, proof positive that you're talking out your ass once again. By now you should've learned not to talk and make assumptions about things you don't know about. Did you complete high school? You reek of blue-collar resentment.
I'm blaming you pumpster for not deadlifting of squatting,you're obviously just a by product of shitty genetics and a lack mental toughness....
I do like your choice of purses though (hopefully they match you shoes)
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This sounds like the typical ass-muscle-being-short-thing.
Check this:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/stretches.php?MainMuscle=Glutes
Especially the Seated floor twist, I do a version of this, always before squatting. Standing I put the knee on an incline bench and twist. It should stretch back up in the ass.
I do it before I am warm, as well. My sports therapist told me it would be better that way. I usually crack out the back a little this way too. 8)
Good call on the stretches. I screwed up my back doing deads a couple weeks ago - put them at the end of my back workout, but didn't drop the weight any lower than when I would do them first, so of course, I fucked everything up. Had to take deads, leg presses, and stiff-leg deads out of my routine because of the stress. For legs I'm pretty much just doing leg extensions and curls, and a few sets of hacks to maintain. Overly tight low back/glutes seems to be the culprit. I've been doing those stretches 1-2x/day for the last few weeks with some SMR foam rolling, and it's helping a lot.
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Now the lil tough guy with issues has reported posts to moderator, after attacking like a rabid dog he can't take it bwhaahahahahahaha
a lot of people don't post on here anymore because of you pumper. You get snarky and can't take a comeback then ban people.
As for getting back to the thread...
High reps and low reps BOTH have a place while deadlifting. If you have pain that R.I.C.E (and your legal painkiller of choice won't fix) after a few days see a Dr., don't mess around with the back
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a lot of people don't post on here anymore because of you pumper. You get snarky and can't take a comeback then ban people.
he get's overwhelmed knowing he's not on the same page as most people here because he dos'nt lift (I don't consider using a bowflex lifting) so he guess's a lot.......
it's his self doubt that makes him angry !
;D
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I'm a believer in the rack deads. Doesn't hurt the lower lumbar region, takes the legs out of it, and still grows your whole upper back.
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go to the doctor
get perks
share them with me!!
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This thread delivers.
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a lot of people don't post on here anymore because of you pumper. You get snarky and can't take a comeback then ban people.
As for getting back to the thread...
To use geo's words which were borrowed from squadfather without attribution, i call bullshit on that claim. The last banning of any consequence was about a year ago, and there have been precious few deletions including anything on this thread.
Get your facts straight, and focus on the thread, not on me the way geo does. ;D
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I'd like to see you back up that claim, since the last banning of any consequence was about a year ago, and there have been precious few deletions including anything on this thread. Get your facts straight. ;D
these boards were built around good advice about squatting and deadlifting (years before you ever showed up),neither of which you do apparently because you find them "unpleasant" and too hard.....
and it's ok that your physical limitations has you sitting on the sideline and wondering what it's like to be mentally tough enough to sqaut or deadlift but when you go so far as to discourage newby to,well then this place does become a joke
just like the way you post a pic of power hooks instead of offering advice on learning how to kick DB's up....
power hooks ?
you've got to be fuckin kiddin me !
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To use geo's words which were borrowed from squadfather without attribution, i call bullshit on that claim. The last banning of any consequence was about a year ago, and there have been precious few deletions including anything on this thread.
Get your facts straight, and focus on the thread, not on me the way geo does. ;D
I've been gone, or off and on for more than a year.... and you were part of the reason
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I've been gone, or off and on for more than a year.... and you were part of the reason
Since you never said anything, and can't provide proof of anything else, i'd say that's pretty weak in terms of your original claim.
More importantly, let go of the past and contribute on this board. Don't worry about me. ;D
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Since you never said anything, and can't provide proof of anything else, i'd say that's pretty weak in terms of your original claim.
More importantly, let go of the past and contribute on this board. Don't worry about me. ;D
doesn't sound like he has anything to contribute just more complaining and whining like 95 percent of the people on here. ::)
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doesn't sound like he has anything to contribute just more complaining and whining like 95 percent of the people on here. ::)
Absolutely; guys focus on training contributions or questions and don't worry about the unnecessary obsessions/stalking. ;) We shouldn't matter as much to you as we seem to.
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Proper form is critical on this lift. Its got 3 leverage shifts in its ROM.
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if you want good solid results from training IMHO form is critical in any and eveyr lift you do...and JMO maybe 2 or 3 times a month you go out of your weight range and try to push heavier for some muscle and fiber shock...
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I'm a believer in the rack deads. Doesn't hurt the lower lumbar region, takes the legs out of it, and still grows your whole upper back.
I hurt my back on rack deads.
If the weight is heavy enough,you can get hurt doing any movement.
I did have recurring back issues prior to the rack deads though..........they just reaggravated the problem.
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I hurt my back on rack deads.
If the weight is heavy enough,you can get hurt doing any movement.
I did have recurring back issues prior to the rack deads though..........they just reaggravated the problem.
What part of the back?
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Lower right hand side...........killing me!!
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Does one leg feel a bit shorter than the other when you stand?
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Nope,hurt it previosly and just reaggraveted it doing the rack deads.
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Sorry, man.
That sux.
Good luck.
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Nope,hurt it previosly and just reaggraveted it doing the rack deads.
Sorry for your injury. Yes, the weights can bite back anytime.
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ur form probably sucked...sad but true
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Thanks guys,I appreciate it....still training hard regadless of the injury.
My form was perfect bro..............used a weight I hadn`t done in quite some time,the first rep was agonizingly slow,got it up,got 4 more and woke up in pain.
I should have gradually worked back up to that weight over time..................ha d nothing to do with form,just bad judgement on my part is all.
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hey bro just take it slow and im sure youll get back to where you want to be..
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Feeling much better now, haven't been in the gym since the injury though. I'm starting again tomorrow, I'm just going to take my time and be cautious in terms of what I can do now and what I can't. Thanks for all the advice.
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hey bro just take it slow and im sure youll get back to where you want to be..
Thanks bud.......still training,just working around the injury.
This entails skipping some exercises and using others that don`t stress my back so much.
Not a biggie.....been there before but it does get painful especially at first when the injury is new.
Take care Rick.....good advice......listen to your bodys feedback.