Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Camel Jockey on December 13, 2007, 06:05:40 PM
-
Just saw it on fox sports news.. hahaha He took winny and a personal trainer admitted to injecting him. :-X
-
Just saw it on fox sports news.. hahaha He took winny and a personal trainer admitted to injecting him. :-X
This is no secret, in the report there was also mention he had Anadrol and Sustanon. Any 45 year old who's still throwing heat in the mid to upper 90's and pitching 5 innings to complete games in on something.
-
The guy is how old? Yeah, there's a shock... He SHOULD fucking juice.
Gotta make that Mon-Ay.
-
Of coures he did...so has well over half of all big leaguers who've played in last 25 years
-
Maybe they should look back to when steroids were legal. Are those eras tainted? If Arnold could juice in the 60's and 70's legally you really don't think Aaron or of the other guys didn't?
-
It's no coincedence that he became a cy young winner again right around the time he started gear. He was terrible his last few years with the Sox.
-
still, he's rich. many people here use steroids and are still poor.
-
Not only is it not a big deal, I don't think it was a secret either.
Juiced up batters vs juiced up pitchers = completely level playing field
-
Not only is it not a big deal, I don't think it was a secret either.
Juiced up batters vs juiced up pitchers = completely level playing field
I agree, I don't see why people are shocked by this.
-
Isn't he old enough to go to one of those anti aging clinics to get injected now?
-
Wow baseball players using steroids now this is big news !
::) ::) ::)
-
Maybe they should look back to when steroids were legal. Are those eras tainted? If Arnold could juice in the 60's and 70's legally you really don't think Aaron or of the other guys didn't?
Steroids had not entered baseball in the 60's and 70's. Honestly. Steroids were being used by governments and bodybuilders in the 60's. Some olympic athletes by the 70's...Hank Aaron would have looked at you like you were insane if you wanted to inject him with something. Honestly
-
It's no coincedence that he became a cy young winner again right around the time he started gear. He was terrible his last few years with the Sox.
He should've known better than to fuck the redsox over! Sucks for him!
-
Of coures he did...so has well over half of all big leaguers who've played in last 25 years
I am not trying to be funny or anything, but I have always wondered this about Roger Clemens:
You hear all the media and related entities waxing euphoric over how HARD he trains/trained.
That he has/had the absolute hardest, intense and most impressive, year-round training routine in MLB history.
Okay, I can buy that(maybe), but...
...he has always appeared to me to be somewhat stocky, pudgy, maybe even overweight/fat.
And even having a double chin, at times.
Wouldn't all of that hard training and (what I would consider world-class) the best nutritional advisors in the world lead to what at least would appear to be greater physical leanness?
Was all this pap about him being an exercise machine just a SMOKE SCREEN for what they knew would be the day he'd be nailed for using the juice?
You know, like MaGuire being caught with Abdrosteindione in his locker? You knew he had that there most conveniently to deflect reporters interest in the REAL THING he was using all along.
With Roger...you know..."Well, him being able to IMPROVE at an age when most were retiring/retired was due to spartan training methodolgy."
I'd really like to know what you all think of these words,
Mike
-
Of coures he did...so has well over half of all big leaguers who've played in last 25 years
FINALLY somebody in this thread has some real insight!!!!!!!
::)
Noob ::)
-
It's no coincedence that he became a cy young winner again right around the time he started gear. He was terrible his last few years with the Sox.
1986 Roger Clemens* (1) Boston Red Sox 24–4 0 2.48
1987 Roger Clemens (2) Boston Red Sox 20–9 0 2.97
1991 Roger Clemens (3) Boston Red Sox 18–10 0 2.62
1997 Roger Clemens+ (4) Toronto Blue Jays 21–7 0 2.05
1998 Roger Clemens*+ (5) Toronto Blue Jays 20–6 0 2.65
2001 Roger Clemens (6) New York Yankees 20–3 0 3.51
He supposedly started in Toronto. Those 3 Cy Youngs in Boston show his shitty performance. ::) If his juicing helped so much why doesn't he have more Cy Youngs after 2000 when he hit the juice hard?
Steroids had not entered baseball in the 60's and 70's. Honestly. Steroids were being used by governments and bodybuilders in the 60's. Some olympic athletes by the 70's...Hank Aaron would have looked at you like you were insane if you wanted to inject him with something. Honestly
So bodybuilders could get them but celebrity athletes couldn't? Good logic. ::) Palmiero used juice and was thin, like many other people. Zane was on juice and never went over 180 lbs or so. I highly doubt roids just started in the late 1980's and early 90's. Try again.
-
Isn't he old enough to go to one of those anti aging clinics to get injected now?
In many parts going to such a clinic for such reasons is now illegal.
Mike
-
FINALLY somebody in this thread has some real insight!!!!!!!
::)
Noob ::)
haha..there's my buddy Pandaemonium again.. Moosjay very good points..would'nt doubt anything you said
-
I am not trying to be funny or anything, but I have always wondered this about Roger Clemens:
You hear all the media and related entities waxing euphoric over how HARD he trains/trained.
That he has/had the absolute hardest, intense and most impressive, year-round training routine in MLB history.
Okay, I can buy that(maybe), but...
...he has always appeared to me to be somewhat stocky, pudgy, maybe even overweight/fat.
And even having a double chin, at times.
Wouldn't all of that hard training and (what I would consider world-class) the best nutritional advisors in the world lead to what at least would appear to be greater physical leanness?
Was all this pap about him being an exercise machine just a SMOKE SCREEN for what they knew would be the day he'd be nailed for using the juice?
You know, like MaGuire being caught with Abdrosteindione in his locker? You knew he had that there most conveniently to deflect reporters interest in the REAL THING he was using all along.
With Roger...you know..."Well, him being able to IMPROVE at an age when most were retiring/retired was due to spartan training methodolgy."
I'd really like to know what you all think of these words,
Mike
I've read his training routine before. A well conditioned high school athlete would have no problem completing it.
-
1986 Roger Clemens* (1) Boston Red Sox 24–4 0 2.48
1987 Roger Clemens (2) Boston Red Sox 20–9 0 2.97
1991 Roger Clemens (3) Boston Red Sox 18–10 0 2.62
1997 Roger Clemens+ (4) Toronto Blue Jays 21–7 0 2.05
1998 Roger Clemens*+ (5) Toronto Blue Jays 20–6 0 2.65
2001 Roger Clemens (6) New York Yankees 20–3 0 3.51
He supposedly started in Toronto. Those 3 Cy Youngs in Boston show his shitty performance. ::)
So bodybuilders could get them but celebrity athletes couldn't? Good logic. ::) Palmiero used juice and was thin, like many other people. Zane was on juice and never went over 180 lbs or so. I highly doubt roids just started in the late 1980's and early 90's. Try again.
I'm not saying they couldn't; I'm saying there was no interest. Do you know anything about baseball? If so, you'll know that lifting weights was SHUNNED in the 60's and 70's. It was thought that lifting weights would slow you down and make you "muscle bound"...Why do you think barry bonds was so fucking skinny when he entered the league....couldn't he have gotten steroids when he was playing baseball in college or even high school?
How's that logic?
-
1986 Roger Clemens* (1) Boston Red Sox 24–4 0 2.48
1987 Roger Clemens (2) Boston Red Sox 20–9 0 2.97
1991 Roger Clemens (3) Boston Red Sox 18–10 0 2.62
1997 Roger Clemens+ (4) Toronto Blue Jays 21–7 0 2.05
1998 Roger Clemens*+ (5) Toronto Blue Jays 20–6 0 2.65
2001 Roger Clemens (6) New York Yankees 20–3 0 3.51
He supposedly started in Toronto. Those 3 Cy Youngs in Boston show his shitty performance. ::)
So bodybuilders could get them but celebrity athletes couldn't? Good logic. ::) Palmiero used juice and was thin, like many other people. Zane was on juice and never went over 180 lbs or so. I highly doubt roids just started in the late 1980's and early 90's. Try again.
He was terrible his last few years in Boston, overweight and always hurt and when he left after 96 many people said he was done. He started gear according to the report around the time he regained his dominance and has never really been hurt. I never said he was bad in Boston, I watched him play ten years but he wasn't very good from around 94-96. Learn to read.
-
Hank Aaron wasn't a juicer and niether was Willie Mays. Those guys played into their 40's but became average at best after their mid 30's. Bonds and Clemens were stellar into their late 30's and early 40's.
Clemens had a pretty hulky appearence.. Mays was like 175 lbs.
He was terrible his last few years in Boston, overweight and always hurt and when he left after 96 many people said he was done. He started gear according to the report around the time he regained his dominance and has never really been hurt. I never said he was bad in Boston, I watched him play ten years but he wasn't very good from around 94-96. Learn to read.
Great point. It's funny to me how so many willing to slam Bonds can't do the same with Clemens.
-
He was terrible his last few years in Boston, overweight and always hurt and when he left after 96 many people said he was done. He started gear according to the report around the time he regained his dominance and has never really been hurt. I never said he was bad in Boston, I watched him play ten years but he wasn't very good from around 94-96. Learn to read.
That's why dan duquette offered him shit.... He was in a horrible tailspin in '96...then all of a sudden he gets disrespected by the sox and he's pitching like he was 23 again....fucking bitch
-
Maybe they should look back to when steroids were legal. Are those eras tainted? If Arnold could juice in the 60's and 70's legally you really don't think Aaron or of the other guys didn't?
I don't think you can scream tainting unless it was against the rules of baseball.
It's against the law to bean someone in the head with a ball, but you won't get kicked out of the league for it.
-
That's why dan duquette offered him shit.... He was in a horrible tailspin in '96...then all of a sudden he gets disrespected by the sox and he's pitching like he was 23 again....fucking bitch
exactly, honestly I don't care if he used he's still one of the best ever and was awesome from 86-92, after that he starting getting hurt and posted a few sub 500 seasons then poof in 97 he lights it up for Toronto.
-
That's why dan duquette offered him shit.... He was in a horrible tailspin in '96...then all of a sudden he gets disrespected by the sox and he's pitching like he was 23 again....fucking bitch
I bet he upped his drug useage when he was with the Astros. No pressure there and juice = awesome.
He didn't do so well with the yanks because of the added pressure of pitching in NY. Don't care how much you juice, it takes special mental ability to do well in the biggest of stages.
I was watching the YES network(Yankee's channel) and they did a special on Clemens.. He talked of becoming a bodybuilder after he retired.. hahahaha Guess it makes sense now.
-
Just saw it on fox sports news.. hahaha He took winny and a personal trainer admitted to injecting him. :-X
I'd inject him! ;D
-
I'm not saying they couldn't; I'm saying there was no interest. Do you know anything about baseball? If so, you'll know that lifting weights was SHUNNED in the 60's and 70's. It was thought that lifting weights would slow you down and make you "muscle bound"...Why do you think barry bonds was so fucking skinny when he entered the league....couldn't he have gotten steroids when he was playing baseball in college or even high school?
How's that logic?
Okay, well Zane trained and was skinny so you really think you can't get anything out of steroids even without training? Dystrka claimed he didn't lift during a season while on gear. Bonds didn't juice hardcore until he saw a white dude getting records and recognition he wanted. He knew he could hit and if he got the power like Mac he could break those HR records. If you think Bonds didn't juice early on you are naive.
Mass04, so essentially you said he sucked for half his time in Boston. Your statement clearly says that so I take that at face value. By everyone's logic Clemens should have had more CY Youngs since he was "hitting it hard after 2000". BTW, he still isn't fit; still big and puffy.
CJ-Bonds is directly linked to a lab who ran everything for him and he admitted to taking things that were roids and he failed an amphetamine test. He has admitted to juicing just unknowingly. ::) Mac and Clemens have just been named by people who have gotten in trouble. I say it again, Zane juiced and was skinny so guys needing to play definitely took something. Speed was okay but not roids? ::)
Tu-I'm fine with that I'm just saying that if Mac goes down then Bonds and all the rest should because he retired before anything was in place, assuming he did it which I don't think he did.
-
still, he's rich. many people here use steroids and are still poor.
leave pro bodybuilders alone. ;D
-
Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1984 21 BOS AL 9 4 21 20 5 1 0 0 133.3 146 67 64 13 29 126 2 4 575 3 0 4.32 4.20 97 1.313 RoY-6
1985 22 BOS AL 7 5 15 15 3 1 0 0 98.3 83 38 36 5 37 74 3 1 407 0 3 3.29 4.32 131 1.220
1986 23 BOS AL 24 4 33 33 10 1 0 0 254.0 179 77 70 21 67 238 4 11 997 0 3 2.48 4.19 169 0.969 MVP-1,CYA-1,AS
1987 24 BOS AL 20 9 36 36 18 7 0 0 281.7 248 100 93 19 83 256 9 4 1157 4 3 2.97 4.56 154 1.175 MVP-19,CYA-1
1988 25 BOS AL 18 12 35 35 14 8 0 0 264.0 217 93 86 17 62 291 6 4 1063 4 7 2.93 4.13 141 1.057 CYA-6,AS
1989 26 BOS AL 17 11 35 35 8 3 0 0 253.3 215 101 88 20 93 230 8 7 1044 5 0 3.13 4.13 132 1.216
1990 27 BOS AL 21 6 31 31 7 4 0 0 228.3 193 59 49 7 54 209 7 8 920 3 0 1.93 4.11 213 1.082 MVP-3,CYA-2,AS
1991 28 BOS AL 18 10 35 35 13 4 0 0 271.3 219 93 79 15 65 241 5 6 1077 12 0 2.62 4.31 164 1.047 MVP-10,CYA-1,AS
1992 29 BOS AL 18 11 32 32 11 5 0 0 246.7 203 80 66 11 62 208 9 3 989 5 0 2.41 4.23 175 1.074 MVP-14,CYA-3,AS
1993 30 BOS AL 11 14 29 29 2 1 0 0 191.7 175 99 95 17 67 160 11 3 808 4 1 4.46 4.64 104 1.263
1994 31 BOS AL 9 7 24 24 3 1 0 0 170.7 124 62 54 15 71 168 4 4 692 1 0 2.85 5.05 177 1.143
1995 32 BOS AL 10 5 23 23 0 0 0 0 140.0 141 70 65 15 60 132 14 9 623 0 0 4.18 4.86 116 1.436
1996 33 BOS AL 10 13 34 34 6 2 0 0 242.7 216 106 98 19 106 257 4 8 1032 2 1 3.63 5.05 139 1.327
1997 34 TOR AL 21 7 34 34 9 3 0 0 264.0 204 65 60 9 68 292 12 4 1044 1 0 2.05 4.53 221 1.030 MVP-10,CYA-1,AS
1998 35 TOR AL 20 6 33 33 5 3 0 0 234.7 169 78 69 11 88 271 7 6 961 0 0 2.65 4.61 174 1.095 MVP-11,CYA-1,AS
1999 36 NYY AL 14 10 30 30 1 1 0 0 187.7 185 101 96 20 90 163 9 8 822 0 0 4.60 4.73 103 1.465
2000 37 NYY AL 13 8 32 32 1 0 0 0 204.3 184 96 84 26 84 188 10 2 878 0 1 3.70 4.82 130 1.312 CYA-6
2001 38 NYY AL 20 3 33 33 0 0 0 0 220.3 205 94 86 19 72 213 5 14 918 1 0 3.51 4.48 128 1.257 MVP-8,CYA-1,AS
2002 39 NYY AL 13 6 29 29 0 0 0 0 180.0 172 94 87 18 63 192 7 14 768 6 0 4.35 4.42 102 1.306
2003 40 NYY AL 17 9 33 33 1 1 0 0 211.7 199 99 92 24 58 190 5 5 878 1 0 3.91 4.39 112 1.214 AS
2004 41 HOU NL 18 4 33 33 0 0 0 0 214.3 169 76 71 15 79 218 6 5 878 5 0 2.98 4.36 146 1.157 MVP-8,CYA-1,AS
2005 42 HOU NL 13 8 32 32 1 0 0 0 211.3 151 51 44 11 62 185 3 3 838 5 1 1.87 4.23 226 1.008 MVP-22,CYA-3,AS
2006 43 HOU NL 7 6 19 19 0 0 0 0 113.3 89 34 29 7 29 102 4 3 451 1 0 2.30 4.45 193 1.041
2007 44 NYY AL 6 6 18 17 0 0 0 0 99.0 99 52 46 9 31 68 5 7 420 0 0 4.18 4.47 107 1.313
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
24 Yr WL% .658 354 184 709 707 118 46 0 0 4916.7 4185 1885 1707 363 1580 4672 159 143 20240 63 20 3.12 4.46 143 1.173
He was a completely different pitcher from 93-96 and 97-05, I don't know what effect what he took had on his performance but it makes you wonder. Like i said he is still one of the best ever. If not the best.
-
Okay, well Zane trained and was skinny so you really think you can't get anything out of steroids even without training? If you think Bonds didn't juice early on you are naive.
You think zane was skinny? Haha you've been posting on this board too long. Zane was small by bodybuiding proportions. Compared to the average man (or baseball player circa 1980) he was HUGE.
I challenge anyone on this board that isn't a pro (juiced or otherwise) to show this level of muscularity
(http://www.giantpt.com/Training/Afbeeldingen/Frank%20Zane.jpg)
and just to be clear...you are comparing zane to this guy
(http://crimlaw.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/9150280-barry-bonds.jpg)
-
I just don't see why this is big news? Isn't it blantantly obvious steroid use is rampant in professional sports. TO be the best you have to make sacrifices... using performance enhancing drugs is a method to improve your performance. The general public wants to see super athletes and great performances but criticize those who use drugs to help them get results. I think people shouldn't be so judgemental when it comes to professional athletes drug use. Drugs are so rampant in American society... I dont see why sports should be any different..at least they are doing it for a purpose as opposed to recreational drug users. With that being said why doesnt our media focus on more pressing issues like providing public healthcare for those who can't afford it.. we are the only country on a list of countries with the top 10 GDp's in the world who doesnt provide public healthcare. Still there are a lot of hardworking people living at or above poverty level and are barely making ends meet...instead of helping those people improve their quality of life the government and news media wastes time on this shit...absolutely mindblowing... ???
-
Mass-I see what you are saying but I think if he is juicing now and not getting Cy Youngs it could just be a rough spell like those three years you mentioned.
Tleilaxutank-compared to Arnold he was tiny. 180 and ripped is awesome but def not HUGE. He was a great BBer but there were many guys at his time who could outmass him without the cuts. Like I said, great BBer but shows that you don't blow up enormously from juicing alone. That was my point. BTW, I'd take his physique over Coleman any day.
-
He obviously didn't look like he was taking anything. He was probably working with a trainer and as far as nutrition goes, well...he was obviously not real strict with that. He may well have been taking only enough that would have, at his age been equivalant to a replacement. Who knows. With the amount of money involved......who could blame him if it would help him hang on for a few more years. He should have been sticking himself so that no one could testify that they injected him.
-
You think zane was skinny? Haha you've been posting on this board too long. Zane was small by bodybuiding proportions. Compared to the average man (or baseball player circa 1980) he was HUGE.
I challenge anyone on this board that isn't a pro (juiced or otherwise) to show this level of muscularity
(http://www.giantpt.com/Training/Afbeeldingen/Frank%20Zane.jpg)
and just to be clear...you are comparing zane to this guy
(http://crimlaw.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/9150280-barry-bonds.jpg)
Excellent post.
Zane generally competed at about 190 pounds.
In his final year, he stepped on stage at 205 pounds(he admitted ultimately that this was too heavy for him to show his best muscularity with definition).
He has been listed at about 5 feet, 9 inches, but I have trained with him recently, and I'd swear he's not above 5 feet 7 inches(given, with fairness, that one does lose heaight with age).
Anyway, it would be considered off-base to call him 'skinny'.
Mike
-
CJ-Bonds is directly linked to a lab who ran everything for him and he admitted to taking things that were roids and he failed an amphetamine test. He has admitted to juicing just unknowingly. Mac and Clemens have just been named by people who have gotten in trouble. I say it again, Zane juiced and was skinny so guys needing to play definitely took something. Speed was okay but not roids?
Speed isn't the same as roids... Even ephedrine with caffine mimicks speed, although not quite the time frame as speed.
It doesn't matter who said what. It's quite evident Clemens juiced based on his performance with the Astros and his reincarnation with the Blue Jays. Come on dude. Your love for the guy is blinding you.
Maybe him throwing the broken bat at Piazza was due to roid rage? hahahahaha ;D
You think zane was skinny? Haha you've been posting on this board too long. Zane was small by bodybuiding proportions. Compared to the average man (or baseball player circa 1980) he was HUGE.
I challenge anyone on this board that isn't a pro (juiced or otherwise) to show this level of muscularity
Bodybuilders train for muscles. Many baseball players just do it for recovery, and some added muscle. They don't live the methodical lifestyle of a pro bber.
-
Bodybuilders train for muscles. Many baseball players just do it for recovery, and some added muscle. They don't live the methodical lifestyle of a pro bber.
Agreed, but understand that is true of today, ca. 2007. In the 60's, 70's and 80's, lifting was avoided as a baseball player...
-
To be fair to Roger from 93-96 (with the exception of 95) the Sox were pretty bad, and that could be part of the mini decline.
-
they're all on the shit..ARod, Tom Brady, Lebron ....everyone of them..any superstar in profess sports should automatically be considered "ON"
-
Excellent post.
Zane generally competed at about 190 pounds.
In his final year, he stepped on stage at 205 pounds(he admitted ultimately that this was too heavy for him to show his best muscularity with definition).
He has been listed at about 5 feet, 9 inches, but I have trained with him recently, and I'd swear he's not above 5 feet 7 inches(given, with fairness, that one does lose heaight with age).
Anyway, it would be considered off-base to call him 'skinny'.
Mike
He gives up 5 inches of height to Bonds and in his rookie year Barry was about 180. 6'1 and 180 lbs is skinny but bring him down to 5'8 or 5'7 (by your estimation) and put Barry on a BBing diet then you would see Barry outclassing Zane. By the way I hate Bonds so I am being objective.
CJ, I don't root for Clemens or any team, aside from BoSox, he has been on. He is a beast and I admire that but I am no die hard fan. It seems like everyone thinks he should have won all the Cy Youngs in his career, with no slump, to seem like a legit pitcher off the sauce. Nolan Ryan is arguably one of the best pitchers ever and I bet he had slumps here and there. Pitching is no easy task and I can see guys having bad years and rebounding. The same goes for hitters. Look at Bonds post-injury.
-
Agreed, but understand that is true of today, ca. 2007. In the 60's, 70's and 80's, lifting was avoided as a baseball player...
Of course dude. I'd be willing to be my right kidney that players like Aaron and Mays didn't juice, hence why they declined in the latter years. Guys like Bonds and Clemens were better in the latter years and bigger to boot. Any idiot could make the connection.
-
He gives up 5 inches of height to Bonds and in his rookie year Barry was about 180. 6'1 and 180 lbs is skinny but bring him down to 5'8 or 5'7 (by your estimation) and put Barry on a BBing diet then you would see Barry outclassing Zane. By the way I hate Bonds so I am being objective.
You're crazy. Just crazy.
-
Any idiot could make the connection.
Not all of them, apparently!
:)
-
I just don't see why this is big news? Isn't it blantantly obvious steroid use is rampant in professional sports. TO be the best you have to make sacrifices... using performance enhancing drugs is a method to improve your performance. The general public wants to see super athletes and great performances but criticize those who use drugs to help them get results. I think people shouldn't be so judgemental when it comes to professional athletes drug use. Drugs are so rampant in American society... I dont see why sports should be any different..at least they are doing it for a purpose as opposed to recreational drug users. With that being said why doesnt our media focus on more pressing issues like providing public healthcare for those who can't afford it.. we are the only country on a list of countries with the top 10 GDp's in the world who doesnt provide public healthcare. Still there are a lot of hardworking people living at or above poverty level and are barely making ends meet...instead of helping those people improve their quality of life the government and news media wastes time on this shit...absolutely mindblowing... ???
There are also many young people making great livings, who do not have families or children to support, and are given choices by their employers as to if they want healthcare coverage provided to them, or more pay.
Many say, "More pay," so they are uncovered/uninsured.
This is not mentioned in media reports. They are chronicled as 'uninsured', as though they are victims.
They are not.
Furthermore, these nations who provide 'free' healthcare for their societies...remember...t hey are often taxed in avenues similar to 50% to 75% of their incomes.
Imagine the backlash you'd see here if Hillary or whomever tried to pull that sort of hullabulloo.
Oh, and yes. I am a doctor.
I gladly pay for healthcare for me and my staff.
And not crappy coverage. FULL coverage. I pay for my staff's copays. I pay for their $500 deductable if they need surgery.
Its all part of living in this great country.
I don't piss my money away on $7 lattes from Satrbucks, lunch at restaurants every afternoon, and I don't drive gas-guzzlers.
Its all choice, friends.
Most on this board should especially know that we should not always be pointing the finger of blame with healthcare issues.
Get rid of (or moderate)fast food, cigarettes, booze, drugs, lethardy/lack of exercise, and not only would we wliminate the federal health care deficit, but we'd likely have anough dough left over to give everyone in this country $100 (including liiegal aliens-not that they don't already get enough!).
Mike
-
I challenge anyone on this board that isn't a pro (juiced or otherwise) to show this level of muscularity
(http://www.giantpt.com/Training/Afbeeldingen/Frank%20Zane.jpg)
I'm still working on it :(
-
You're crazy. Just crazy.
You don't think a shorter guy training to keep size will look bigger than a dude that is not?
I'm not saying that those guys early on DID juice but that they certainly could have and gone undetected. Those old timers looked similar to a young Bonds and he (Barry) could have been on some Deca there. All athletics post WW2 could be considered tainted with juice but this is the only era looked at and why? Simple, Bonds. Athletes fail doping tests every year but the government went after Bonds and all this came with it.
-
You don't think a shorter guy training to keep size will look bigger than a dude that is not?
I'm not saying that those guys early on DID juice but that they certainly could have and gone undetected.
Ok, good to see you are coming to your senses. Hank Aaron (and everyone he played with) did not juice. They weren't even into strength and conditioning. We have reached common ground.
I could give a shit about bonds. He brought it all on himself by lying and being so indignant. Giambi admitted to using and new york forgave him. Baseball desperately wanted bonds to just come clean and then they could've forgive him too. Bonds is not going to be fucked for cheating; he's going to be fucked for lying about it after the fact...
-
You are correct.
Bonds has been proven to be such a sour, unpleasant, angry fellow, that even the most neutral media persons would now hesitate to vote him into the Hall of Fame.
He is frowning and unhappy even when he should be happy.
This seems amazing, regarding the HOF, given his numbers.
But look at Pete Rose, who did not become recalcitrant until only recently.
Mike
-
Heads are gonna roll
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7560368?MSNHPHCP>1=10734
-
Here is an article from about 45 minutes ago where Clemens denies all charges.
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/ny-sproger1214,1,360056.story?coll=cs-home-headlines
-
I am not trying to be funny or anything, but I have always wondered this about Roger Clemens:
You hear all the media and related entities waxing euphoric over how HARD he trains/trained.
That he has/had the absolute hardest, intense and most impressive, year-round training routine in MLB history.
Okay, I can buy that(maybe), but...
...he has always appeared to me to be somewhat stocky, pudgy, maybe even overweight/fat.
And even having a double chin, at times.
Wouldn't all of that hard training and (what I would consider world-class) the best nutritional advisors in the world lead to what at least would appear to be greater physical leanness?
Was all this pap about him being an exercise machine just a SMOKE SCREEN for what they knew would be the day he'd be nailed for using the juice?
You know, like MaGuire being caught with Abdrosteindione in his locker? You knew he had that there most conveniently to deflect reporters interest in the REAL THING he was using all along.
With Roger...you know..."Well, him being able to IMPROVE at an age when most were retiring/retired was due to spartan training methodolgy."
I'd really like to know what you all think of these words,
Mike
I agree, good post.
-
There are also many young people making great livings, who do not have families or children to support, and are given choices by their employers as to if they want healthcare coverage provided to them, or more pay.
Many say, "More pay," so they are uncovered/uninsured.
This is not mentioned in media reports. They are chronicled as 'uninsured', as though they are victims.
They are not.
Furthermore, these nations who provide 'free' healthcare for their societies...remember...t hey are often taxed in avenues similar to 50% to 75% of their incomes.
Imagine the backlash you'd see here if Hillary or whomever tried to pull that sort of hullabulloo.
Oh, and yes. I am a doctor.
I gladly pay for healthcare for me and my staff.
And not crappy coverage. FULL coverage. I pay for my staff's copays. I pay for their $500 deductable if they need surgery.
Its all part of living in this great country.
I don't piss my money away on $7 lattes from Satrbucks, lunch at restaurants every afternoon, and I don't drive gas-guzzlers.
Its all choice, friends.
Most on this board should especially know that we should not always be pointing the finger of blame with healthcare issues.
Get rid of (or moderate)fast food, cigarettes, booze, drugs, lethardy/lack of exercise, and not only would we wliminate the federal health care deficit, but we'd likely have anough dough left over to give everyone in this country $100 (including liiegal aliens-not that they don't already get enough!).
Mike
Dr. Mike,
My father is a doctor and my mother is a nurse...and I worked in his office in high school and partly through college...so I am well aware of our healthcare system..
Fortunately you pay for your workers healthcare so they are lucky...but for so many others this isnt the case. Actually when I just graduated from college and was searching for a full time job I got sick and went to the emergency room and the bill was $4,000...it was unbelievable... how can someone in that situation afford that...so we arent just talking about people who just make bad choices...sure they are a part of it...but in any case just because someone makes a bad choice do they have to continue to pay for that indefinately..
I certainly agree with you about fast food, cigarettes, etc. Also I am not pointing the finger of blame completely at healthcare.. although I think it is completely absurd spending the money we do on the military and military expansion when people in our own country need help that was my main point...I was using healthcare as example.. My point being that why does the media waste our time with this kind of thing...not only the media but the government as well...using our tax dollars to investigate and prosecute these kinds of cases...what is the point? The US has much bigger issues it should be dealing with...just wanted to clarify my point..anyways thanks for the reply
-
Dr. Mike,
My father is a doctor and my mother is a nurse...and I worked in his office in high school and partly through college...so I am well aware of our healthcare system..
Fortunately you pay for your workers healthcare so they are lucky...but for so many others this isnt the case. Actually when I just graduated from college and was searching for a full time job I got sick and went to the emergency room and the bill was $4,000...it was unbelievable... how can someone in that situation afford that...so we arent just talking about people who just make bad choices...sure they are a part of it...but in any case just because someone makes a bad choice do they have to continue to pay for that indefinately..
I certainly agree with you about fast food, cigarettes, etc. Also I am not pointing the finger of blame completely at healthcare.. although I think it is completely absurd spending the money we do on the military and military expansion when people in our own country need help that was my main point...I was using healthcare as example.. My point being that why does the media waste our time with this kind of thing...not only the media but the government as well...using our tax dollars to investigate and prosecute these kinds of cases...what is the point? The US has much bigger issues it should be dealing with...just wanted to clarify my point..anyways thanks for the reply
str8-T
Your points are excellent.
When I got out of school...I was struck head-on by a drunk driver on the highway, crushed my knee and a bunch of other injuries...as I was no longer on my parents insurance, I ultimately had to pay over $100,000 in medical bills on my own.
Believe me, it was not pleasant.
But, in time (lots of time!) I paid up.
You and I know (with your dad and mom being in the health professions) that just because you are a doc does noty mean you are making millions.
I do well, but I work much of the time 100 hours a week, often more.
I am not complaining...I love what I do...I'd be an idiot if I didn't working such hours.
I love it, but also, in part, MUST work these hours.
You see, If I don't do this, NO ONE will come to my aid.
They will not care.
They will not pay my bills.
Due to the indiscretions of one (A drunkard taking the wheel), I was forced to suffer inordinately, for many years.
Paradoxically speaking, due to the willful indisdretions of millions (those who treat themselves very poorly via physically, drunk, drugs, fat foods, lack of activity, etc.), many more who work hard, (you, me, others), will have to suffer and work much harder and longer than necessary.
I do a lot of work in and with the media on a national level, and I do not hesitate to say that there is very good reason as to why journalists are now the least trusted profession.
Best I can tell you is to make your own assertions and decisions daily and in life...don't depend on media outlets to steer you and your decesions.
Believe me, there is a term in the media called 'dialing it in'.
There was a time when reporters and anchors used to research their own stories, and then report on them to the masses.
Now, they 'dial it in' much of the time.
This means someone plants a good looking honey in front of a teleprompter, and she reads what is often simply a bunch of tripe.
Just reads it.
You could print, "Hey big fella, wanna lay me?"
...and she'd probably read it!!!
So, young guy, don't be mesmerized by this.
Like I teach my college classes,
"You are in college to learn to think on your own."
So, think on your own. I am certain smart parents like yours taught you this.
As far as military stuff, well...I am a jingoist, so I will not comment on this as I tend not to conversate on political matters when not with a live audience.
Anyway, thanks for your kind and thoughtful response, and I hope you are recovered from your injuries.
Best,
Mike
-
Just saw it on fox sports news.. hahaha He took winny and a personal trainer admitted to injecting him. :-X
That fat ass was on Winstrol???
OMG....baseball is a perfect example of how NOT to take AAS.
-
Agreed, but understand that is true of today, ca. 2007. In the 60's, 70's and 80's, lifting was avoided as a baseball player...
The 80's is when it started to change. I have heard and read that Brian Downing is one of the first to lift weights and juice extensively in MLB. And it makes sense to me. He got a lot bigger, and turned into a offensive player, rather than a very light hitter. He probably would have barely lasted a year or 2 without juice. Downing was no Hall-of-Famer, but he was able to have a nice career, and was above average.
When I look back on that era now, I have to say that 1983 AL ROY Ron Kittle was another pioneer of juice in baseball. I remember readind that he lifted like crazy to help his offence, and that he got so strong, he had to just push entire univeral machines around the gym, since none of the individual weight stacks were heavy enough. So as a teenager, I thought he was just a really dedicated lifter. But I would bet anything he was using steroids, just as sure as I am that guys like Mantle, Mays and Aaron never touched them. I doubt Kittle would have even made the majors without them.
I am sure that guys like Ricky Henderson and Raines juiced too, at the end of their careers. Probably not at the beginning of the 80's when they were reall speed demons. But who knows, world class track sprinters juice, so they could have been. i would say Ricky started steroids when he became a Yankee, as he started to look muscular, and hit for some power.
Maybe a Dave Kingman or Mike Schmidt juiced at the end of their playing days too. I loved Reggie Jackson, but he might be guilty when he was an Angel near the end of his career too. I know when he retired, he owned several Gold's Gym in Cali, and was working out like a bodybuilder for a few years and obviously juicing then.
Julio Franco had to have been juicing when he made his comeback in his 40's, as he was actually quite muscular, and has hung around the majors almost to his 50's. I doubt he was juicing in the 1980's, but who knows.
Obviously, the 90's is when steriods became rampant in baseball. Maybe Caminiti was not far off when he estimated 50% of all MLB was using. But I would say there was more than just a handful in the 1980' as well.
-
Just one more injection! :P
-
.
-
It's no coincedence that he became a cy young winner again right around the time he started gear. He was terrible his last few years with the Sox.
You're so fuccking stupid it boggles my mind.
-
1986 Roger Clemens* (1) Boston Red Sox 24–4 0 2.48
1987 Roger Clemens (2) Boston Red Sox 20–9 0 2.97
1991 Roger Clemens (3) Boston Red Sox 18–10 0 2.62
1997 Roger Clemens+ (4) Toronto Blue Jays 21–7 0 2.05
1998 Roger Clemens*+ (5) Toronto Blue Jays 20–6 0 2.65
2001 Roger Clemens (6) New York Yankees 20–3 0 3.51
He supposedly started in Toronto. Those 3 Cy Youngs in Boston show his shitty performance. ::) If his juicing helped so much why doesn't he have more Cy Youngs after 2000 when he hit the juice hard?
So bodybuilders could get them but celebrity athletes couldn't? Good logic. ::) Palmiero used juice and was thin, like many other people. Zane was on juice and never went over 180 lbs or so. I highly doubt roids just started in the late 1980's and early 90's. Try again.
A++ post, thank you.
-
.
And this pic of Clemens is a perfect example of shooting blanks instead of roids.
-
You're so fuccking stupid it boggles my mind.
You don't think juicing had any effect on his performance? ::) His years with the Astros were stellar.
-
:-X
-
You don't think juicing had any effect on his performance? ::) His years with the Astros were stellar.
You're having a hard time with Level 1. When you catch up I'll explain it to you.
-
if you go on baseball reference.com they have a special section dedicated to the 86 players named in the report. you can access their whole careers, most of them you can tell when they started the juice when they got off etc.brady anderson while not named in the report was coming to his walk year, all of a sudden he came into the season bigger than he ever was. he never hit more than 21 homeruns all of a sudden he hits 50, gets his big multi year contract than returns to his pre gear days. if jose canseco hadn't written his book how long would this still be left in the closet?
-
str8-T
Your points are excellent.
When I got out of school...I was struck head-on by a drunk driver on the highway, crushed my knee and a bunch of other injuries...as I was no longer on my parents insurance, I ultimately had to pay over $100,000 in medical bills on my own.
Believe me, it was not pleasant.
But, in time (lots of time!) I paid up.
You and I know (with your dad and mom being in the health professions) that just because you are a doc does noty mean you are making millions.
I do well, but I work much of the time 100 hours a week, often more.
I am not complaining...I love what I do...I'd be an idiot if I didn't working such hours.
I love it, but also, in part, MUST work these hours.
You see, If I don't do this, NO ONE will come to my aid.
They will not care.
They will not pay my bills.
Due to the indiscretions of one (A drunkard taking the wheel), I was forced to suffer inordinately, for many years.
Paradoxically speaking, due to the willful indisdretions of millions (those who treat themselves very poorly via physically, drunk, drugs, fat foods, lack of activity, etc.), many more who work hard, (you, me, others), will have to suffer and work much harder and longer than necessary.
I do a lot of work in and with the media on a national level, and I do not hesitate to say that there is very good reason as to why journalists are now the least trusted profession.
Best I can tell you is to make your own assertions and decisions daily and in life...don't depend on media outlets to steer you and your decesions.
Believe me, there is a term in the media called 'dialing it in'.
There was a time when reporters and anchors used to research their own stories, and then report on them to the masses.
Now, they 'dial it in' much of the time.
This means someone plants a good looking honey in front of a teleprompter, and she reads what is often simply a bunch of tripe.
Just reads it.
You could print, "Hey big fella, wanna lay me?"
...and she'd probably read it!!!
So, young guy, don't be mesmerized by this.
Like I teach my college classes,
"You are in college to learn to think on your own."
So, think on your own. I am certain smart parents like yours taught you this.
As far as military stuff, well...I am a jingoist, so I will not comment on this as I tend not to conversate on political matters when not with a live audience.
Anyway, thanks for your kind and thoughtful response, and I hope you are recovered from your injuries.
Best,
Mike
Moose, you're right on point!
I put myself through college, worked as many as 3 jobs in addition to full-time classes and paid for my own health insurance.
Almost anyone can get a decent policy fron Blue Cross for @ $120 /monthly. There are VERY few Americans that couldn't abbreviate some of thir wasteful spending to set aside that amount of money.
When I see someone with a cell phone or eating fast food every day or driving a more expensive car than they can afford complain about not having insurance, I HAVE NO SYMPATHY!
We live in the greatest country on Earth with the most opportunity for achieving success.
"Give me health insurance"? Eat my balls.
-
You're so fuccking stupid it boggles my mind.
okay douchebag explain where i'm wrong. How does a guy improve with age when most pitchers are done by 35. Like I said he was incredible for the Sox but was not the same pitcher in the mid 90's that he was when he left Boston. According to the report the time of his resurgence makes sense. Clemens is one of the best ever with or without the stuff he took. To imply that it didn't effect his performance is wrong, sorry to break it to you, I didn't mean to talk bad of your hero.
-
okay douchebag explain where i'm wrong. How does a guy improve with age when most pitchers are done by 35. Like I said he was incredible for the Sox but was not the same pitcher in the mid 90's that he was when he left Boston. According to the report the time of his resurgence makes sense. Clemens is one of the best ever with or without the stuff he took. To imply that it didn't effect his performance is wrong, sorry to break it to you, I didn't mean to talk bad of your hero.
Please provide your proof of when exactly Clemens was using and how it affected his performance. Oh, I forgot, all speculation.
-
Baseball plyers on gas is just as stupid and moronic as a billiards player on gas. No point. Not a contact sport. Sustenon, HGH, Winstrol all to hit a baseball ::). Ridiculous. Baseball is a hand eye co-ordination sport. Taking roids would be like shooting blanks and a waste of the gas.
-
Baseball plyers on gas is just as stupid and moronic as a billiards player on gas. No point. Not a contact sport. Sustenon, HGH, Winstrol all to hit a baseball ::). Ridiculous. Baseball is a hand eye co-ordination sport. Taking roids would be like shooting blanks and a waste of the gas.
Not sure how true this is, it's very hard to quantify.
-
Honestly Joe, you have no credibility. You melted down in the worst possible way and anything you say, whether correct or not, will just be dismissed IMO. You're better off just leaving the boards quietly.
Amazing that you call me a douchebag when you are arguably the biggest douche on GB.
-
And this pic of Clemens is a perfect example of shooting blanks instead of roids.
i guess he injected just for quicker recovery and feel "the edge" ,and did not work out at all.
-
Honestly Joe, you have no credibility. You melted down in the worst possible way and anything you say, whether correct or not, will just be dismissed IMO. You're better off just leaving the boards quietly.
Amazing that you call me a douchebag when you are arguably the biggest douche on GB.
I'm not Coach, but honestly the only point I was making was what effect if any what he "supposedly' took had on his performance. I personally could care less about steroids in baseball, but I'm basing this on what was in that report. If the drugs didn't work, why did he take them? To quit a multi million dollar HOF career to become an IFBB pro.
-
Sorry, saw the avatar and didn't read your SN.
This is a complicated subject. To give off the cuff assesments is a mistake IMO. I haven't offered my opinion either way, mostly because it would be a book-sized response. I would think that this would be common sense.
-
Sorry, saw the avatar and didn't read your SN.
This is a complicated subject. To give off the cuff assesments is a mistake IMO. I haven't offered my opinion either way, mostly because it would be a book-sized response. I would think that this would be common sense.
yeah, I know what you're saying. It's hard not to specualte with a guy that good, and he hasn't really got a chance to defend himself. I agree there is alot of things to consider and everyone should just wait.
-
Not sure how true this is, it's very hard to quantify.
Its very true and just common sense. It is a waste of AAS. Its like putting perfomance parts on a 4 cylinder shitbox of a car.
-
Its very true and just common sense. It is a waste of AAS. Its like putting perfomance parts on a 4 cylinder shitbox of a car.
I'm pretty sure you could swing harder while on AAS, but it wouldn't help with the most important aspects of the game IMO.
-
the guy can throw as hard as he did when he was in his 20s more then two decades later
juice =/ size
-
I'm pretty sure you could swing harder while on AAS, but it wouldn't help with the most important aspects of the game IMO.
How about recovery? How about the increased confidence due to higher levels of testosterone? Of course juicing didn't make players like Bonds and Clemens great, as they'd have been in the hall of fame regardless of whether they took steroids or not. But the way Clemens went on to win 330 games tells you a lot, and the same goes for Bonds and his breaking of Aaron's record. I don't think they'd be good into their 40's without the sauce. It's just so obvious.
-
Honestly Joe, you have no credibility. You melted down in the worst possible way and anything you say, whether correct or not, will just be dismissed IMO. You're better off just leaving the boards quietly.
Amazing that you call me a douchebag when you are arguably the biggest douche on GB.
What are you talking about? I'm not Mass04
-
What are you talking about? I'm not Mass04
Hey Joe, what you doin with that syringe in your hand? haahaha Like that Hendrix song. 8)
-
What are you talking about? I'm not Mass04
Impossible to mistake you for him, given the same avatar.
And you're correct, Mass04 is a good dude.
-
Hey Joe, what you doin with that syringe in your hand? haahaha Like that Hendrix song. 8)
"i'm goin' down to shoot my old lady, you know i caught her messin' round with another man"
-
"i'm goin' down to shoot my old lady, you know i caught her messin' round with another man"
hahahaha I just imagined site injecting some old hag I saw at the supermarket today.. :-X
-
Hey Joe, what you doin with that syringe in your hand? haahaha Like that Hendrix song. 8)
brilliant ;D
-
the guy can throw as hard as he did when he was in his 20s more then two decades later
juice =/ size
dude is 45 and throw like a 25 y/o
ok..here is what I got out of this report
1. Only use HGH
2. Buy your HGH from someone in the middle of no where
3. Pay cash only
4. Use a middle man or 2 or 3 so that it cannot be traced directly back to you
-
dude is 45 and throw like a 25 y/o
ok..here is what I got out of this report
1. Only use HGH
2. Buy your HGH from someone in the middle of no where
3. Pay cash only
4. Use a middle man or 2 or 3 so that it cannot be traced directly back to you
Some of the fucking idiots paid with credit.. jesus, how can anyone be that dumb?