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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Hugo Chavez on February 13, 2008, 06:37:20 AM
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Here are the facts.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
Attack the man on his policies, if you have to swiftboat a politician, you got nothing. Save the swiftboat crap for somewhere else.
(This post was againt my own policies. A slip out of anger... Bring what you will and let it be hashed out until the truth is uncovered. It's flat out wrong of me to say don't bring it here... At the time I thought it was 100% fiction without any basis but that doesn't make it right. I still think it's BS but I had no right to say don't bring it. I think this is the first time I've uttered what I'm against for this forum so this thread makes me a hypocrite and I deserve to be p'wned for it. It's my bust and I appologize. Sept 3, 2008)
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I disagree...he's made some strong statements etc..but I'm not going down that road...there is plenty enough to attack on his positions or lack there of.
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I disagree...he's made some strong statements etc..but I'm not going down that road...there is plenty enough to attack on his positions or lack there of.
If you have proof that he's a muslim state it. So far every investigation into this has debunked it as bullshit so I suggest you double check your facts before posting.
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I disagree...he's made some strong statements etc..but I'm not going down that road...there is plenty enough to attack on his positions or lack there of.
I'm interested in what you got.
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he's got nothing.
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim.htm
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I have a long list of his curious statements and his family ties to muslims....have the link on my other computer..I'll post tonight. The quotes are out there. he may be a Christian now but I think everything this guy does is calculated anyway so who knows...
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Here's the kind of crap spewed by rightwing extremists and hatemongers. There is no end to their evil lies.
Like this stupid bitch: http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2006/12/barack_hussein.html who passes on the rumor that Obama went to a radical Wahabbi school.
So CNN tracked down the school in question:
(Update: CNN has tracked down the school in question, the Basuki School in Jakarta, which a deputy headmaster described as a "public school" with no particular religious agenda. "In our daily lives, we try to respect religion, but we don't give preferential treatment," he told CNN. A classmate of Obama's described the school as "general," with students of many religious backgrounds attending. Obama entered the school at the age of 8 and attended for two years.)
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim.htm
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CNN Proves Fox News Broadcast on Obama was “Appallingly Irresponsible”
Insight Magazine, which is owned by the same company as The Washington Times, reported on its website that “researchers connected to Senator Clinton” had unearthed information that Senator Barack Obama had attended a Muslim religious school in Indonesia known for teaching the most fundamentalist form of Islam. Obama acknowledged attending a Muslim school but stated that it was not a madrassa, an institution focusing on the teachings of Islam.
In his two books, Obama had noted that he spent two years in a Muslim school and another two years in a Catholic school while living in Indonesia from age 6 to 10. He called the madrassa-version of the story “an obvious right-wing hit job”. Senator Clinton, who is also seeking a White House bid, has denied that the unnamed source is associated with her campaign.
Insight Magazine stood by its article, which was cited several times on Fox News, was referenced by the New York Post, and also mentioned on The Glenn Beck program. In a two-for-one hit job, Insight said that Obama’s political opponents (such as Hillary) believe the school promoted Wahhabism, a radical form of Islam, “and are seeking to prove it.” An Obama aide has described Fox News’ broadcasting of the false story “appallingly irresponsible.”
Further reporting by journalists at CNN have shown the Insight and Fox News allegations to be false. International Correspondent John Vause visited the Basuki school in Jakarta, which Obama attended for 2 years. “I came here to Barack Obama’s elementary school in Jakarta looking for what some are calling an Islamic madrassa … like the ones that teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan,” Vause said on the “Situation Room” Monday. “I’ve been to those madrassas in Pakistan … this school is nothing like that.”
Vause reported seeing boys and girls in school uniforms playing outside the school, while teachers were dressed in Western-style clothes. “This is a public school. We don’t focus on religion,” Hardi Priyono, deputy headmaster of the Basuki school, told Vause. “In our daily lives, we try to respect religion, but we don’t give preferential treatment.”
Bandug Winadijanto, one of Obama’s Basuki classmates, was also interviewed by Vause. “It’s not (an) Islamic school. It’s general,” Winadijanto said. “There is a lot of Christians, Buddhists, also Confucian. … So that’s a mixed school.” Fox News executive Bill Shine dismissed the seriousness of the slander by telling CNN that some of Fox’s hosts were simply expressing their opinions.
For your comedic pleasure, here’s some of that “fair and balanced” Faux News journalism. It’d be funnier if people didn’t actually watch this show for their news.
http://www.jwharrison.com/blog/2007/01/24/cnn-proves-fox-news-broadcast-on-obama-was-appallingly-irresponsible/
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I'm sure thats all true..u couldn't become president if it were...however thats not what I'm taking about. His relatives are muslim...he pretty much diavows his white grandmother.....he comes off as a man of change..maybe a chameleon...he's as full of shit as the rest of them.
On the Muslim Americans for Obama ’08 site, one will find a list of upcoming events, issues and solutions, details on how to join, a links section to sites of interest, and of course, a link to the blog. There’s even a toll-free number to call for more information.
Within the events section, a number of the listings pertain to conferences and conventions being sponsored by organizations that have a number of troubling ties. One is the 44th Annual ISNA National Convention, held in Rosemont, Illinois.
ISNA or the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) was recently named an “Unindicted Co-conspirator” for a Dallas trial that dealt with the funding of millions of dollars to Hamas. Beginning in December 2003, ISNA was the subject of a Senate investigation into the financing of terror groups overseas. The group currently uses its website to propagate violent hatred against Jews and Christians.
Another of the events listed is the 32nd ICNA-MAS Convention, held in Hartford, Connecticut. ICNA or the Islamic Circle of North America, in August 2006, was the top donor to a Pakistani charity that, at the time, had given $99,000 to the head of Hamas, Khaled Mashaal. Four people associated with the ICNA-related ‘Houston Taliban’ were arrested and charged with jihad training with firearms, for the purpose of joining the Taliban to attack Americans overseas.
He might not be a muslim..but his ties to groups and his support from...is very troubling.
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I apologize for its length...
My take..it doesn't matter that he may have distanced himself from this guy or from muslims...what matters is he has or had ties...and these are the people who support him. If u have problems with Bush/Cheney being shills for "Big Oil" or the House of Saud...then u have to have problems with this right?
Why Does Obama’s Pastor Matter?
By John Perazzo
FrontPageMagazine.com | 2/4/2008
Barack Obama, in a way that recalls John F. Kennedy, a politician to whom he’s frequently compared, has carefully controlled and burnished his image to create the impression of an independent figure, free from dogma and ideological entanglements. But there is one man who threatens to undermine Obama’s appealing narrative as a man above the ugly quarrels and divisive partisanship of the past: his longtime pastor and spiritual adviser, Rev. Jeremiah Wright.
On March 1, 1972, Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. became the pastor of Chicago’s Trinity United Church of Christ (TUCC), a position he still holds to this day. Because he has been a revered figure in the life of presidential aspirant Barack Obama for two decades, Wright’s political views, which he commonly draws from the tenets of liberation theology, are worthy of some scrutiny—if only to shed light on the teachings that have had enough resonance to retain Obama as a TUCC congregant since 1988. So great is Obama’s respect for Wright, that the former sought the Reverend’s counsel before formally declaring his candidacy for U.S. President. Moreover, Obama and his wife selected Wright to perform their wedding ceremony and to baptize their two daughters. These are honors of considerable magnitude, and it is reasonable to speculate that if we learn more about Rev. Wright, we may gain some insight into the personal qualities and belief systems Barack Obama holds in high regard.
When we read the writings, public statements, and sermons of Rev. Wright, we quickly notice his unmistakable conviction that America is a nation infested with racism, prejudice, and injustices that make life very difficult for black people. As he declared in one of his sermons: “Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!… We [Americans] believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God.”
In a similar spirit, Wright laments “the social order under which we [blacks] live, under which we suffer, under which we are killed.”[1] Depicting blacks as a politically powerless demographic, he complains that “African Americans don’t run anything in the Capital except elevators.”[2] On its website, Wright’s church portrays black people as victims who are still burdened by the legacy of their “pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism,” and who must pray for “the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people.”
Wright detects what he views as racism in virtually every facet of American life. In the business world, for instance, he attributes the high unemployment rate of African Americans to “the fact that they are black.”[3] Vis-à-vis the criminal justice system, he similarly explains that “the brothers are in prison” largely because of their skin color. “Consider the ‘three strikes law,’” he elaborates. “There is a higher jail sentencing for crack than for cocaine because more African Americans get crack than do cocaine.”[4] Notwithstanding Wright’s implication that the harsh anti-crack penalties were instituted by racist legislators for the purpose of incarcerating as many blacks as possible, the Congressional Record shows that such was not at all the case. In 1986, when the strict, federal anti-crack legislation was being debated, the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC)—deeply concerned about the degree to which crack was decimating the black community—strongly supported the legislation and actually pressed for even harsher penalties. In fact, a few years earlier CBC members had pushed President Reagan to create the Office of National Drug Control Policy.[5]
In Wright’s calculus, white America’s bigotry is to blame not only for whatever ills continue to plague the black community, but also for our country’s conflicts with other nations. “In the 21st century,” says Wright, “white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01. White America and the western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just ‘disappeared’ as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns.”
Remarkably, no mention of jihad—the ageless Muslim tradition of aggressive, permanent warfare whose ultimate aim is to achieve Islam’s dominion over the human race at large—managed to find its way into Wright’s analysis. Rather, he assured us that the 9/11 atrocities were ultimately traceable to the doorstep of U.S. provocations. In fact, Wright apparently sees no reason to suspect that Islam may be incompatible in any way with Western traditions. “Islam and Christianity are a whole lot closer than you may realize,” he has written. “Islam comes out of Christianity.”[6]
Apart from America’s purported racism, Wright also despises the nation’s capitalist economic structure, viewing it as a breeding ground for all manner of injustice. “Capitalism as made manifest in the ‘New World,’” says Wright, “depended upon slave labor (by African slaves), and it is only maintained by keeping the ‘Two-Thirds World’ under oppression.”[7] This anti-capitalist perspective is further reflected in TUCC’s “10-point vision,” whose ideals include the cultivation of “a congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.” Dispelling any doubt that this is a reference to socialism and the wholesale redistribution of wealth, the TUCC mission statement plainly declares its goal of helping “the less fortunate to become agents of change for God who is not pleased with America’s economic mal-distribution!”
This view is entirely consistent with Rev. Wright’s devotion to the tenets of liberation theology, which is essentially Marxism dressed up as Christianity. Devised by Cold War-era theologians, it teaches that the gospels of Jesus can be understood only as calls for social activism, class struggle, and revolution aimed at overturning the existing capitalist order and installing, in its stead, a socialist utopia where today’s poor will unseat their “oppressors” and become liberated from their material (and, consequently, their spiritual) deprivations. An extension of this paradigm is black liberation theology, which seeks to foment a similar Marxist revolutionary fervor founded on racial rather than class solidarity. Wright’s mentor in this discipline is James Cone, author of the landmark text Black Power and Black Theology. Arguing that Christianity has been used by white society as an opiate of the (black) masses, Cone asserts that the destitute “are made and kept poor by the rich and powerful few,” and that “[n]o one can be a follower of Jesus Christ without a political commitment that expresses one’s solidarity with victims.”
Many of Wright’s condemnations of America are echoed in his denunciations of Israel and Zionism, which he has blamed for imposing “injustice and … racism” on the Palestinians. According to Wright, Zionism contains an element of “white racism.” Likening Israel’s treatment of Palestinians to South Africa’s treatment of blacks during the apartheid era, Wright advocates divestment campaigns targeting companies that conduct business in, or with, Israel.
Given Wright’s obvious low regard for the U.S. and Israel, it is by no means surprising that he reserves some of his deepest respect for the virulently anti-American, anti-Semitic Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan. “When Minister Farrakhan speaks, Black America listens,” says Wright. “Everybody may not agree with him, but they listen … His depth on analysis when it comes to the racial ills of this nation is astounding and eye opening. He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest. Minister Farrakhan will be remembered as one of the 20th and 21st century giants of the African American religious experience. His integrity and honesty have secured him a place in history as one of the nation’s most powerful critics. His love for Africa and African American people has made him an unforgettable force, a catalyst for change and a religious leader who is sincere about his faith and his purpose.”
Wright’s paean to Farrakhan was parroted in the November/December issue of TUCC’s bimonthly magazine, the Trumpet, which featured an interview with the NOI “icon” who, according to the publication, “truly epitomized greatness.” “Because of the Minister’s influence in the African American community,” the Trumpet announced that it was honoring him with an “Empowerment Award” as a “fitting tribute for a storied life well lived.”
This seems an odd distinction to confer upon someone whose anti-American, anti-white, anti-Semitic statements are numerous. For example, in 1996 Farrakhan told a Tehran newspaper that God would “bestow upon Muslims” the honor of “destroy[ing] America.” In February 1998, he sent a cordial and supportive letter to Saddam Hussein, calling him a “visionary” who had earned the Iraqi people’s “love,” and whose demise would “mean a setback for the goal of unity [among Muslims].” In July 2002, he declared that America, “with blood dripping from [its] hands,” had no moral authority by which to overthrow Saddam. In February 2005, he condemned the United States for waging a war “against Islam,” adding: “[T]here’s no way that I, as a Muslim, could countenance my children or grandchildren fighting a war against fellow believers in any part of the world.”
Farrakhan also has a long, well-documented history of venom-laced references to the white “blue-eyed devils” and Jewish “bloodsuckers” who purportedly decimate America’s black communities from coast to coast. Moreover, he has referred to white people as “the skunks of the planet.”
On a 1984 trip to meet with the Libyan dictator (and America’s arch enemy) Muammar Qadhafi, Farrakhan was accompanied by none other than Jeremiah A. Wright.
Farrakhan has long considered Qadhafi to be his trusted “friend,” “brother,” and “fellow struggler in the cause of liberation for our people.” In 1996, the NOI leader formed a partnership with Qadhafi, who pledged $1 billion to help Farrakhan develop a Muslim political lobby in the U.S. Said Qadhafi: “We agreed with Louis Farrakhan and his delegation to mobilize in a legal and legitimate form the oppressed minorities—and at their forefront the blacks, Arab Muslims and Red Indians—for they play an important role in American political life and have a weight in U.S. elections.” “Our confrontation with America,” added Qadhafi, “was [previously] like a fight against a fortress from outside, and today [with the NOI alliance] we found a breach to enter into this fortress and confront it.”
Farrakhan’s October 16, 1995 Million Man March ranks among the events about which Rev. Wright has written most extensively and passionately. Wright attended the rally with his son, and has described it as “a once in a lifetime, amazing experience.”[8] When a number of prominent African Americans counseled fellow blacks to boycott the demonstration because of Farrakhan’s well-documented history of hateful rhetoric, Wright derided those critics as “‘Negro’ leaders,”[9] “‘colored’ leaders,” “Oreos,” and “house niggras”[10] whose most noteworthy trait was their contemptible “Uncle Tomism.”[11] “There are a whole boat load of ‘darkies’ who think in white supremacist terms,” added Wright. “… Some ‘darkies’ think white women are superior to black women…. Some ‘darkies’ think white lawyers are superior to black lawyers. Some ‘darkies’ think white pastors are better than black pastors. There are a whole boatload of ‘darkies’ who think anything white and everyone white is better than whatever it is black people have.”[12]
In the book titled When Black Men Stand up for God, a collection of sermons and reflections on the Million Man March, Wright identifies Kwanzaa founder Maulana Karenga as an attendee of the rally.[13] In the end notes that follow a transcript of one of Wright’s sermons, Karenga is described as “an internationally acclaimed social activist and scholar in Pan African Studies”; “the founder and creator of Kwanzaa, the well-known African American holiday”; and “the director of Pan African Studies and Visiting Lecturer in Ethnic Studies at the University of California, Riverside.”[14] Unmentioned is the fact that Karenga is a self-identified “African socialist” whose “Seven Principles of Blackness,” which are observed during Kwanzaa, are not only the Marxist precepts of parity and proletariat unity, but are also identical to those of the 1970s domestic terrorist group, the Symbionese Liberation Army. Nor is it noted that in 1971 Karenga was convicted of torturing two women who were members of United Slaves, a black nationalist cult he had established.
On its website, Wright’s church describes itself in distinctly racial terms, as being an “Unashamedly Black” congregation of “African people” who are “true to our native land, the mother continent, the cradle of civilization,” and who participate in TUCC’s “Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.”
Some have suggested that such seemingly exclusionary assertions, coupled with Wright’s own racially loaded statements and his close affiliation with Farrakhan, indicate that Wright is guilty of racism. But Wright casually dismisses this charge, stating: “I get tickled every time I hear a ‘Negro’ call me a racist. They don’t even understand how to define the word. Racism means controlling the means.”[15] In other words, Wright employs a rhetorical escape hatch that permits him to evade all charges of racism simply by claiming that only the “dominant” (i.e., white) demographic is capable of such ugliness. The implication is that no deed or utterance, however hateful or vile, is egregious enough to qualify any black person as a racist; that blacks are always the victims of racism, never its perpetrators.
American voters ought to have more than a passing interest in the fact that when Barack Obama formally joined TUCC in 1991, he tacitly accepted this same Jeremiah Wright as a spiritual mentor. Moreover, he pledged allegiance to the church’s race-conscious “Black Value System” that encourages blacks to patronize black-only businesses, support black leaders, and avoid becoming “entrapped” by the pursuit of a “black middle-classness” whose ideals presumably would erode their sense of African identity and render them “captive” to white culture.
In addition, voters should examine carefully the question of whether Obama shares Wright’s socialist economic preferences. They ought to be aware, for instance, that the Democratic candidate is on record as having said that his religious faith has led him to question “the idolatry of the free market.” Moreover, Obama’s voting record and his issue positions show him generally to favor high spending and increased government intervention in all realms of life.
When Rev. Wright’s controversial statements and positions recently became more widely publicized, Obama said, “There are some things I agree with my pastor about, some things I disagree with him about.” It is the duty of every American voter to determine exactly where those agreements and disagreements lie.
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wait...we didn't attack iraq cause " bush is doing gods work :-\" but having muslim ties for obama is bad?
lol ::)
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Anyone with half a brain knows he isn't Muslim. Has Muslim ties .......
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Anyone with half a brain knows he isn't Muslim. Has Muslim ties .......
so does bush!
bestest friend of the osama family!
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so does bush!
bestest friend of the osama family!
Yeah!
I know!
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here is a video for the folks that simply refuse to pull bush cock out of their asses
;)
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He's not a muslim.
Just because his dad(who was a womanizer) was supposedly one doesn't make him one. This whole business is pretty much crap pushed by people who don't like him.
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Given the world we live in, having some (although very limited) personal experience with how the other half lives is only an ADVANTAGE.
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here is a video for the folks that simply refuse to pull bush cock out of their asses
;)
see, here's something that hasn't been debunked and has been well researched as opposed to the complete BS about Obama.
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Yeah...i want a guy named Barack Obama as my president 8 years after 911...
Obama officially becomes an apostate Muslim by his conversion and the question needs to be asked, was Obama's conversion faith-based or political expediency?
In either case, Muslims view Obama as first a Muslim and then as an apostate Muslim. He faces the death penalty in nearly the entire Islamic world...
I also found that the Indonesians have ignored this...why who knows...selective inforcement of rules when it benefits them...no problem everybody does it...except the rest of us don't issue death sentances on cartoonists.
The person who made me proudest of all," Obama wrote, "was Roy. Actually, now we call him Abongo, his Luo name, for two years ago he decided to reassert his African heritage. He converted to Islam, and has sworn off pork and tobacco and alcohol."
Abongo "Roy" Obama is a Luo activist and a militant Muslim who argues that the black man must "liberate himself from the poisoning influences of European culture." He urges his younger brother to embrace his African heritage....
Sorry I'd rather have Bill banging interns..then this guy trolling around the WhiteHouse.
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Look we can put this one to rest...I don't like the guy...i don't trust him in any way and I'm not sure this guy should even be a senator...but hell Beserk..reword the thread..saying waht barack stands for or all things barrack so we can challange or support his record. Maybe a thread on all candidates.
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Yeah...i want a guy named Barack Obama as my president 8 years after 911...
Obama officially becomes an apostate Muslim by his conversion and the question needs to be asked, was Obama's conversion faith-based or political expediency?
In either case, Muslims view Obama as first a Muslim and then as an apostate Muslim. He faces the death penalty in nearly the entire Islamic world...
I also found that the Indonesians have ignored this...why who knows...selective inforcement of rules when it benefits them...no problem everybody does it...except the rest of us don't issue death sentances on cartoonists.
The person who made me proudest of all," Obama wrote, "was Roy. Actually, now we call him Abongo, his Luo name, for two years ago he decided to reassert his African heritage. He converted to Islam, and has sworn off pork and tobacco and alcohol."
Abongo "Roy" Obama is a Luo activist and a militant Muslim who argues that the black man must "liberate himself from the poisoning influences of European culture." He urges his younger brother to embrace his African heritage....
Sorry I'd rather have Bill banging interns..then this guy trolling around the WhiteHouse.
So is he a Muslim, or is he the person Muslims hate most (Evil apostate)? You can't have it both ways.
Sounds like the reason you're against him is because of his name/origin. That's a poor reason.
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Oh no...I don't like him because he's a danger. i don't like him because of all his comments..because of his lack of record..because he won't be good for this country...he' Super naive on foreign policy...I've said this guy is another Jimmy Carter. If his name was John Smith I'd say the same thing. i have no idea if he's a muslim...only he knows. I know he's made comments supporting muslims and his 'new faith"....at this point it doesn't matter. He has inconsistancies in what he's said in his book and what might actually be fact. He's had some interesting backdoor deals while in illinois. And before u attack Mccain or Bush..we're talking about Barrack and his record. The other two guys have plenty of skeletons...
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Yeah...i want a guy named Barack Obama as my president 8 years after 911...
OMG... You just lost all credibility... The last thing that should make a difference is a guy's name rhyming with Osama ::) This is America and as far as I'm concerned you've just committed a very unAmerican act.
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Dude..the jihadists would love to have this idiot in office. I can't stand him. I don't like the message it sends . He's there because of some bullshit guilt. His record is no different then Hils...nobody attacks his record..nobody questions his ties with some questionable muslim groups and black christian groups. Its Feb 13 and today might be the first we've heard of any hard economic plan from this guy. I wan't commenting on his name sounding like Osama...I didn't accure to me until u mentioned it.....my point is that he has ties to some questionable muslim groups. I posted some info before.
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From everything I can find, the guy has been a christian most of his life. He was raised to be a christian by his mother. AND, THIS IS FUNNY AS HELL IF YOU STOP TO THINK ABOUT IT! This would be one of the only times you'll catch Christians bent out of shape over someone converting to Christianity. I mean stop and think about what that means! It seems unreal, but it's real... real insane.
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From everything I can find, the guy has been a christian most of his life. He was raised to be a christian by his mother.
I don't think that's true. I read his autobio a while ago and it seemed like they were irreligious in Hawaii. Then she took him to Indonesia with her.......can't remember religion there either. Think he started becoming spiritually aware when he moved to Chicago, which was relatively late in the game.
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I don't care about his conversion....good for him. Some question if its genuine..whatever. His choice of Churces is another issue.
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Dude..the jihadists would love to have this idiot in office. I can't stand him. I don't like the message it sends . He's there because of some bullshit guilt. His record is no different then Hils...nobody attacks his record..nobody questions his ties with some questionable muslim groups and black christian groups. Its Feb 13 and today might be the first we've heard of any hard economic plan from this guy. I wan't commenting on his name sounding like Osama...I didn't accure to me until u mentioned it.....my point is that he has ties to some questionable muslim groups. I posted some info before.
The Jihadists would love to have Obama in office. ::) oh brother... In actuallity, they would more love to have someone who'll keep them as number 1 issue in the world. They're so much more today than they've ever been before, thanks to Bush. and when you talk about his name in relation to 9/11 and the fact that there has been a huge association campaign in the media and net to associate his name to Osama, I find it hard to believe that's not what you were talking about. But still, that you would rule one out by name is disgusting. Somewhere some poor guy is being held back by people like you because his name is jeffery dahmer.
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I'm ruling him out because he may have ties to groups that are extremeist in nature....those groups support him. I don't want extremist groups who 'support' my commander in chief. I hate this guy..he's a politician pure and simple...with plenty of skeletons that nobody will question..because he's black and he has a muslim name....I don't have any white guilt so I'm posting whats out there.
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I don't think that's true. I read his autobio a while ago and it seemed like they were irreligious in Hawaii. Then she took him to Indonesia with her.......can't remember religion there either. Think he started becoming spiritually aware when he moved to Chicago, which was relatively late in the game.
well the main point, he was never a radical muslim is true. He never went to one of those schools they claim. and this is what he said:
My father was from Kenya, and a lot of people in his village were Muslim. He didn't practice Islam. Truth is he wasn't very religious. He met my mother. My mother was a Christian from Kansas, and they married and then divorced. I was raised by my mother. So, I've always been a Christian. The only connection I've had to Islam is that my grandfather on my father's side came from that country. But I've never practiced Islam. … For a while, I lived in Indonesia because my mother was teaching there. And that's a Muslim country. And I went to school. But I didn't practice. But what I do think it does is it gives me insight into how these folks think, and part of how I think we can create a better relationship with the Middle East and that would help make us safer is if we can understand how they think about issues.
Just because he didn't go to church does not mean he was not Christian. All through the Nebraska, Wyoming, Colorado, western states, you'll find many Christians who are very private in their worship and do not associate with a church and making a special point to violently chase away door to door missionaries. If the guy said he was a Christian, you just have to take his word for it. Church is not a requirement at all.
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I'm ruling him out because he may have ties to groups that are extremeist in nature....those groups support him. I don't want extremist groups who 'support' my commander in chief. I hate this guy..he's a politician pure and simple...with plenty of skeletons that nobody will question..because he's black and he has a muslim name....I don't have any white guilt so I'm posting whats out there.
What extremist groups are providing aid/support to the Obama campaign ::)
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I'm ruling him out because he may have ties to groups that are extremeist in nature....those groups support him. I don't want extremist groups who 'support' my commander in chief. I hate this guy..he's a politician pure and simple...with plenty of skeletons that nobody will question..because he's black and he has a muslim name....I don't have any white guilt so I'm posting whats out there.
I suppose your sources are the same ones that provided you with the material you used to start the "Barack Obama is the Messiah" thread.
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On May 10th, Obama botched his facts in a speech criticizing the U.S. auto industry for "investing in bigger and faster cars while foreign competitors invested in more fuel-efficient technology."
Obama stated that "while our fuel standards haven't moved from 27.5 miles per gallon in two decades, both China and Japan have surpassed us, with Japanese cars now getting an average of 45 miles to the gallon." But Toyota, which should know, has responded, "No carmaker gets 45 mpg; ours is closer to 30 mpg."Related -- Obama spent the better part of his remarks criticizing US automakers for not building more hybrid vehicles like Toyota and Honda.
Well, we're glad to see Obama's shifting the blame from the consumer to the automakers. That must explain why the Illinois Senator and Presidential candidate owns a HEMI-powered V8 Chrysler 300C. Obviously it's Chrysler's fault Obama bought a big 5.7-liter engine from them -- he just didn't have a choice.
My point..not rock star messiah of change..more BS washington poltician. Same hypocritical bullshit. U guys are getting bent out of shape over my saying I don't want yada yada..comment on his record..do u want me to take it back so we can focus on his record..fine I take it back..now about his record....
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No that was from a pro Obama website...pretty simple.
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On May 10th, Obama botched his facts in a speech criticizing the U.S. auto industry for "investing in bigger and faster cars while foreign competitors invested in more fuel-efficient technology."
Obama stated that "while our fuel standards haven't moved from 27.5 miles per gallon in two decades, both China and Japan have surpassed us, with Japanese cars now getting an average of 45 miles to the gallon." But Toyota, which should know, has responded, "No carmaker gets 45 mpg; ours is closer to 30 mpg."Related -- Obama spent the better part of his remarks criticizing US automakers for not building more hybrid vehicles like Toyota and Honda.
Well, we're glad to see Obama's shifting the blame from the consumer to the automakers. That must explain why the Illinois Senator and Presidential candidate owns a HEMI-powered V8 Chrysler 300C. Obviously it's Chrysler's fault Obama bought a big 5.7-liter engine from them -- he just didn't have a choice.
My point..not rock star messiah of change..more BS washington poltician. Same hypocritical bullshit. U guys are getting bent out of shape over my saying I don't want yada yada..comment on his record..do u want me to take it back so we can focus on his record..fine I take it back..now about his record....
You're scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
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On May 10th, Obama botched his facts in a speech criticizing the U.S. auto industry for "investing in bigger and faster cars while foreign competitors invested in more fuel-efficient technology."
Obama stated that "while our fuel standards haven't moved from 27.5 miles per gallon in two decades, both China and Japan have surpassed us, with Japanese cars now getting an average of 45 miles to the gallon." But Toyota, which should know, has responded, "No carmaker gets 45 mpg; ours is closer to 30 mpg."Related -- Obama spent the better part of his remarks criticizing US automakers for not building more hybrid vehicles like Toyota and Honda.
Well, we're glad to see Obama's shifting the blame from the consumer to the automakers. That must explain why the Illinois Senator and Presidential candidate owns a HEMI-powered V8 Chrysler 300C. Obviously it's Chrysler's fault Obama bought a big 5.7-liter engine from them -- he just didn't have a choice.
My point..not rock star messiah of change..more BS washington poltician. Same hypocritical bullshit. U guys are getting bent out of shape over my saying I don't want yada yada..comment on his record..do u want me to take it back so we can focus on his record..fine I take it back..now about his record....
I guess we're changing the topic completely :)
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You're scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
for once we agree on something :D
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What extremist groups are providing aid/support to the Obama campaign ::)
The Muslim American Society (MAS) is an organization with strong ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.
On its website's "Personality Page," the MAS displays a photo and short bio of Barack Hussein Obama along with other prominent Muslims, such as Malcolm X, Saladin and Moqtada al-Sadr.
A 2004 Chicago Tribune investigation revealed that, after a contentious debate, U.S. leaders of the fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood decided in 1993 to begin calling themselves the Muslim American Society. The Muslim Brotherhood is an international Islamist group that largely operates underground. The Brotherhood's goal is to spread the rule of Islamic law throughout the world. Key Muslim Brotherhood ideologues, including founder Hassan al-Banna, have endorsed violence as a means of doing so.
Today, MAS' leaders admit that the group was founded by the Muslim Brotherhood, but claim that MAS has evolved since then MAS' magazine, The American Muslim provides a snapshot of where MAS really stands on terrorism. The March 2002 issue includes a fatwa endorsing suicide bombings against Israelis, which states that "martyr operations are not suicide and should not be deemed as unjustifiable means of endangering one's life." The fatwa goes on to say that in suicide bombings, "the Muslim sacrifices his own life for the sake of performing a religious duty, which is jihad against the enemy."
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I have plenty...but its on alot of sites....He is supported by groups that are very shady. Its all part of his record....all kinds of stuff will be dug up on mccain...S@L scandal etc..but I'm pretty sure no groups who support terror groups will also be supporting Mccain.
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http://www.masnet.org/
Show us.
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THis is all I found.
http://www.masnet.org/news.asp?id=3988
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The Muslim American Society (MAS) is an organization with strong ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.
On its website's "Personality Page," the MAS displays a photo and short bio of Barack Hussein Obama along with other prominent Muslims, such as Malcolm X, Saladin and Moqtada al-Sadr.
A 2004 Chicago Tribune investigation revealed that, after a contentious debate, U.S. leaders of the fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood decided in 1993 to begin calling themselves the Muslim American Society. The Muslim Brotherhood is an international Islamist group that largely operates underground. The Brotherhood's goal is to spread the rule of Islamic law throughout the world. Key Muslim Brotherhood ideologues, including founder Hassan al-Banna, have endorsed violence as a means of doing so.
Today, MAS' leaders admit that the group was founded by the Muslim Brotherhood, but claim that MAS has evolved since then MAS' magazine, The American Muslim provides a snapshot of where MAS really stands on terrorism. The March 2002 issue includes a fatwa endorsing suicide bombings against Israelis, which states that "martyr operations are not suicide and should not be deemed as unjustifiable means of endangering one's life." The fatwa goes on to say that in suicide bombings, "the Muslim sacrifices his own life for the sake of performing a religious duty, which is jihad against the enemy."
If there were the sightest tie to anything radical, we both know it would have been all over for them. This is in line with the big deal that was made when the stormfront dude gave to Ron Paul.
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He has no direct ties nor do I believe he supposrts their more radical positions..however I'm not happy that there is any link at all.
More on MAS.....opinion piece in the Dallas Morning news....follow the links its mentions.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/points/stories/DN-mas_11edi.ART.State.Edition1.3d859b9.html
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Here it is. http://www.masnet.org/prof_personality.asp?id=1508 They also have a page about Michael Moore and you may not like him but he's not a radical muslim with terrorist connections and neither is Obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Obama also has the endorsement of the New Black Panther Party.
"Barack Obama represents 'Positive Change' for all of America. Obama will stir the 'Melting Pot' into a better "Molten America.'"
Read The New Black Panther Party 10 Point Platform http://www.newblackpanther.com/10pointplatform.html
I would less then thrilled if the KKk endorsed a guy I wanted for president.
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He has no direct ties nor do I believe he supposrts their more radical positions..however I'm not happy that there is any link at all.
More on MAS.....opinion piece in the Dallas Morning news....follow the links its mentions.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/points/stories/DN-mas_11edi.ART.State.Edition1.3d859b9.html
Oh come on!!! not happy with a link??? anybody can hook up a link and support someone. This is America bubba. Who cares.
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Obama also has the endorsement of the New Black Panther Party.
"Barack Obama represents 'Positive Change' for all of America. Obama will stir the 'Melting Pot' into a better "Molten America.'"
Read The New Black Panther Party 10 Point Platform http://www.newblackpanther.com/10pointplatform.html
I would less then thrilled if the KKk endorsed a guy I wanted for president.
Black Panther Party is entitled to support whoever the hell they want. That they support Obama doesn't say anything other than they don't support Hillary or McCain. Big deal.
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HH6 is grasping at straws.
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HH6, you must admit, we're devating bigtime here. The facts that claim Obama has a radical muslim background are false, you must admit that it is indeed a swiftboat attempt that is unfair and not based in reality.
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http://www.christianpost.com/article/20071218/30541_Concerns_Raised_Over_Alleged_Vow_to_Enforce_Islamic_Law_in_Kenya.htm
Raila Odinga is a Kenyan opposition leader who is reportedly Barack Obama's first cousin. He is a member of the Luo tribe, which has burned Christian churches and is responsible for ethnic cleansing and civil unrest now taking place in Kenya. Odinga lost a recent Kenyan presidential election, leading to the current unrest and violence
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HH6, you must admit, we're devating bigtime here. The facts that claim Obama has a radical muslim background are false, you must admit that it is indeed a swiftboat attempt that is unfair and not based in reality.
He does not..he is supported by folks who do...not my idea of an American president.
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I posted more stuff on his record about the time u guys got spun up on my comment. I retract the comment in order not to cloud the issue that this is at best a fraud..at worst a danger.
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Obama is untested in hardcore politics. And his name rhyme's with Osama. These are not good bets for this crucial time in our history.
Im with HH6 on this. :o
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http://www.christianpost.com/article/20071218/30541_Concerns_Raised_Over_Alleged_Vow_to_Enforce_Islamic_Law_in_Kenya.htm
Raila Odinga is a Kenyan opposition leader who is reportedly Barack Obama's first cousin. He is a member of the Luo tribe, which has burned Christian churches and is responsible for ethnic cleansing and civil unrest now taking place in Kenya. Odinga lost a recent Kenyan presidential election, leading to the current unrest and violence
Oh shit, we're all fucked if we're held to the sins of the cousin ::) Sins of the Father was bad enough.
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Obama is untested in hardcore politics. And his name rhyme's with Osama. These are not good bets for this crucial time in our history.
Im with HH6 on this. :o
no your not. ::) I don't believe you follow that rhyme crap.
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no your not. ::) I don't believe you follow that rhyme crap.
But im a gangta.....rap is rhyme from time to time.
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Oh shit, we're all fucked if we're held to the sins of the cousin ::) Sins of the Father was bad enough.
Beserk.....its smoke...there will be smoke on the Repub side....u guys will follow that smoke as well....maybe there is fire....I'm posting because I think above all this guy is an idiot and naive on foreign policy. I think his followers are naive and blinded by the show without looking at what he stands for. Hil is not naive...I don't like her bt she'd be a better choice.
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Beserk.....its smoke...there will be smoke on the Repub side....u guys will follow that smoke as well....maybe there is fire....I'm posting because I think above all this guy is an idiot and naive on foreign policy. I think his followers are naive and blinded by the show without looking at what he stands for. Hil is not naive...I don't like her bt she'd be a better choice.
I just don't like the swift boat type crap. I didn't like when Bush did it to McCain, I didn't like it when Kerry hit by it and I hate Kerry with a passion. I just don't like it at all and I really hope that soon, shit like this starts to backfire. I'm all for accusing someone of something but I feel there should actually be something valid behind it. In the area of his radical connection, it's crap yet here these fools are on Fox talking about it like it's fact.
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Well regardless...there is enough on his record..his quotes etc..stuff he can't deny...that is directly tied to him and can be be debated, without going down the 3 page hole we just did.
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Agreed?
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agreed, I just like to keep it to the things that haven't been completely debunked and created for the sole purpose of swiftboating a candidate with a pure lie.
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I sugget we do a thread on each candidate and sticky it....we can then post shit as we go forward.
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I sugget we do a thread on each candidate and sticky it....we can then post shit as we go forward.
expand, we might have a good idea. Now or when the primaries are decided? If we do it now we'll have a thread for 3 republicans and two dems, 5 threads. Things will heat up when we get down to two so maybe we should do that then.
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Dude..the jihadists would love to have this idiot in office. I can't stand him. I don't like the message it sends . He's there because of some bullshit guilt. His record is no different then Hils...nobody attacks his record..nobody questions his ties with some questionable muslim groups and black christian groups. Its Feb 13 and today might be the first we've heard of any hard economic plan from this guy. I wan't commenting on his name sounding like Osama...I didn't accure to me until u mentioned it.....my point is that he has ties to some questionable muslim groups. I posted some info before.
hahahahaha
the hate runs deep with this one
I'm more concerned that he Obama is a CFR member.
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From everything I can find, the guy has been a christian most of his life. He was raised to be a christian by his mother. AND, THIS IS FUNNY AS HELL IF YOU STOP TO THINK ABOUT IT! This would be one of the only times you'll catch Christians bent out of shape over someone converting to Christianity. I mean stop and think about what that means! It seems unreal, but it's real... real insane.
Wow that google search must have tunred out a hellava lota research.
Raised to be a christian by his mother? Did you even read any of his books?
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Wow that google search must have tunred out a hellava lota research.
Raised to be a christian by his mother? Did you even read any of his books?
yea, I read the part where he confessed to having a radical Islamic past. I'm just trying to cover up for Obama by pointing out the multiple investigations done debunking Obama's true connection to actually being a radical muslim.
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He faces the death penalty in nearly the entire Islamic world...
I
lmao! omg i kinda used to respect ya...
now i'm kicking myself in the ass for being an idiot :-\ ...i'm wayyy 2 smart to make such judgement errors :(
my muslim parents r gonna vote obama...GASP...how could they..lol..yeesh.. ::)
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I thought there were two important adages that we were supposed to live by, one of which is in the Constitution?
- No person shall be subject to a test of religion when running for public office.
- No person is responsible for the sins of their father.
Judge the guy by his actions.
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Question is, if he was a radical muslim, what the heck could he do anyway? Would the powers that be let that happen in the first place?
Trust me, if he was Muslim, or had an ounce of a tie to the Muslims, he would never be president....
Im holding my breath to see who runs as independents....
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Question is, if he was a radical muslim, what the heck could he do anyway? Would the powers that be let that happen in the first place?
Trust me, if he was Muslim, or had an ounce of a tie to the Muslims, he would never be president....
Im holding my breath to see who runs as independents....
occording to BB, it's not possible for anyone else to enter the race at this point. Or you could always vote for Cynthia McKinney with the Green Party ::) http://www.runcynthiarun.org/
I'm still baffled that in the year of the highest disaproval in both parties, nobody halfway viable entered the race as an independent. It will go down as the biggest missed opportunity ever in my book.
Ron Paul >:(
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occording to BB, it's not possible for anyone else to enter the race at this point.
And where exactly did I say that? I said it's too late for Ron Paul to run as an independent and have a legit shot to win.
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So you are aware that he did in fact attend a Catholic School? Was raised as both a Muslim and a pseudo - Christian.
Studied Islamic History, and the Arts
Stepfather and father were both muslim
Stepfather introduced him to more Muslim culture
Africa is having a rejuve of Muslim Religion, which Obama is very intrigued by
The list goes on.
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Those are facts...i guess what Beserk is saying is that he's not a radical or exposed to hit...really the Madrassa thing. My point is that yep ur right, however....he is supported by groups that have ties and I'm not thrilled about that. I think we can agree he's not himself a radical. The part about him converting...I didn't make that up...if ur a muslim and convert ur "supposed" to be shunned by other muslims...and some believ killed....not my call. I guess if ur not nuts then u really don't care what he does.
Beserk....lets wait till Huck drops....then we have 2 dem and 1 repub...there is plenty to fill the two dem threads.
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And where exactly did I say that? I said it's too late for Ron Paul to run as an independent and have a legit shot to win.
Oh you said it's to late to get on all the ballots in all states and came across pretty much as a someone entering late not having a shot. You didn't state it as an absolute but after the number of times we've talked about it, I'm left feeling only Jesus could appear in the sky and announce himself a candidate and have a shot at this point ;)
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I posted more stuff on his record about the time u guys got spun up on my comment. I retract the comment in order not to cloud the issue that this is at best a fraud..at worst a danger.
Look, I have issues with Obama for not speaking up on issues, and just hanging on to his "Change" image.
But I think he should be attacked for being vague, not for things that are beyond his control, or not even an issue.
It just makes the discussion void IMHO.
There are plenty of question marks regarding Obama, real ones. Lets discuss them instead.
Eg, how will he fund his planned economic plans?
Getting out of Iraq is all fine, but how will he do it?
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So you are aware that he did in fact attend a Catholic School? Was raised as both a Muslim and a pseudo - Christian.
Studied Islamic History, and the Arts
Stepfather and father were both muslim
Stepfather introduced him to more Muslim culture
Africa is having a rejuve of Muslim Religion, which Obama is very intrigued by
The list goes on.
How old was he in the few years this happend? What the fuck is a pseudo Christian? Was the school in question one of these radical islamic schools as said on Fox News? I say no, that leaves a kid spending a few years learning about another religion and the vast majority of his life in our culture surrounded by Christianity and by his own word, a Christian. WOW, THAT IS A BONUS FOR A PRESIDENT. WE NEED SOMEONE WHO IS ABLE TO SEE THE FULL PICTURE!!!!! THIS SHOULD BE A CLEAR BONUS TO ANYONE WHO ISN'T A RACIST FUCK SCUMBAG NAZI WANNABE... I seem to remember all your racist threads here... Your case is shit, pure shit... go wipe your face now.
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Dude those are facts...I dont think it makes Obama an islamist..and his school was investigated and found to be normal. This is why this guy will win..saying anything makes u a "racist".....his record his pretty friggen weak as it is..lump anything else in and he should not even be considered...regardless of race or religion.
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Dude those are facts...I dont think it makes Obama an islamist..and his school was investigated and found to be normal. This is why this guy will win..saying anything makes u a "racist".....his record his pretty friggen weak as it is..lump anything else in and he should not even be considered...regardless of race or religion.
I only note the racist thing because he's made a lot of racist posts here. So motive for attacking Obama kind of stands out for youandme. And read my question of his facts. It is not a fact that these studdies were radical as was stated to be fact by those asshats at Fox News. Man it makes a huge difference and in the end, taking a few years from a kids childhood and painting him as a converted Muslim with radical teachings... Wow, there's such a giant difference between reality and perception here and when you got guys like the Fox News scumbags out hanging all the weight in the radical Muslim that was once Obama, well that makes any truth that could have been found a lie.
When the lie is highlighted, it spoils the truth.
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I agree....it makes it that much harder to attack what might be facts as they get lumped into a racist attack.
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i dont feel like reading 4 pages.
whats the bottom line - i should choose mccain because obama's cousin was saddam?
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U should choose whoever because obama has no clue....or base ur vote on some kind of substance vs buzz words. And obama would like the IRS to do ur taxes...thats all i need to know.
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until he tells us where he hid the WMD, i'm not voting for him.
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whats the bottom line -
hunter is just trying to let us all know that he's reeeeealy reeeealy white! ;D
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hunter is just trying to let us all know that he's reeeeealy reeeealy white! ;D
headhunter is a muslim sympathizer.
he should have rolled a grenade into that spider hole. instead he rolled out the red carpet for a show trial.
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headhunter is a muslim sympathizer.
he should have rolled a grenade into that spider hole. instead he rolled out the red carpet for a show trial.
i dunno where to go with this lol...my parents r muslim : :-\
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I was at FT Bragg at the time...I don't have any idea what ur talking about. :P......Yes PF I'm white.....I don't care that he's black or whatever...I care that he's naive and buzzword empty suit.
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I care that he's naive and buzzword empty suit.
why you gotta bring up JFK like that?
JFk was a dimpled metrosexual too. didnt know much and backed down to the commies in the bay of pigs.
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I don't care that he's black or whatever...I care that he's naive and buzzword empty suit.
i just dont like hilary's face...she looks cunning..i dont want that in my prez...
as for mccain...yeah i really want another bible thumper in my white house ::)
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i just dont like hilary's face...she looks cunning..i dont want that in my prez...
as for mccain...yeah i really want another bible thumper in my white house ::)
McCain's not a bible thumper, just a cantankerous old man who's losing his mind (or else he's just a big flip-flopper).
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McCain's not a bible thumper, just a cantankerous old man who's losing his mind (or else he's just a big flip-flopper).
i equate repb with bible thumper... :D
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Here are the facts.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
Attack the man on his policies, if you have to swiftboat a politician, you got nothing. Save the swiftboat crap for somewhere else.
(This post was againt my own policies. A slip out of anger... Bring what you will and let it be hashed out until the truth is uncovered. It's flat out wrong of me to say don't bring it here... At the time I thought it was 100% fiction without any basis but that doesn't make it right. I still think it's BS but I had no right to say don't bring it. I think this is the first time I've uttered what I'm against for this forum so this thread makes me a hypocrite and I deserve to be p'wned for it. It's my bust and I appologize. Sept 3, 2008)
BUMP
Hugo - did you see my thread about what Obama allegedly told the Egyptian Foriegn Minister?
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BUMP
Hugo - did you see my thread about what Obama allegedly told the Egyptian Foriegn Minister?
no I did not see it. I to my best to log on at least once or twice a day and read through some of the new stuff but even with that I end up missing stuff. If you want me to check out a thread, it would be very helpful if you post the link to that thread lol... I ran through the threads and am not sure what threat you're talking about so a link would be great... yea.. thanks ;D
By the way, you have an epic memory of threads here on political. I always thought I was king of being able to recall who said what when and be able to bump it, but you're right on top of the game. lol..