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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: Deicide on March 14, 2008, 06:02:44 AM
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I am wondering if I should invest the money in it. I have read good and bad reports.
What is the truth? Can it truly increase fat loss at an accelerated rate? Or is it just hype?
Cheers....
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it works. maybe not as extreme as some individuals might promote it to, but it does work.
sot of like supplementing with omega fatty acids... CLA gives your body something it needs, but doesnt get because of todays grain-fed corporate meats..
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it works. maybe not as extreme as some individuals might promote it to, but it does work.
sot of like supplementing with omega fatty acids... CLA gives your body something it needs, but doesnt get because of todays grain-fed corporate meats..
I am not inclined to trust anything you say, however I already take tons of fish oil and flax oil and wanted to know if additional supplementation with CLA would speed up the fat loss.
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I am not inclined to trust anything you say, however I already take tons of fish oil and flax oil and wanted to know if additional supplementation with CLA would speed up the fat loss.
Studies show that it speeds up your metabolism to break it down so it is a catalyst to fat loss, very minor but it it proven to work. For someone that needs to get to a certain weight it might help get that last pound or two off.
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Not worth the price
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Not worth the price
14.99 for prima force cla 90 capsules... thats the best version available right now too...
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14.99 for prima force cla 90 capsules... thats the best version available right now too...
Usually you need to take 3 twice a day so your looking at a two week supply. I'd rather save my money for protein.
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I am going to try it out for a month and see what happens...
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Usually you need to take 3 twice a day so your looking at a two week supply. I'd rather save my money for protein.
ehhh the way i take them, is if i eat a fatty meal, ill take two capsules of cla with it, to allow my body more time to burn off those fats. or, if i am eating a carb meal, ill take two caps cla and two caps fish oil before i eat the carbs to slow the digestion way down
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Decide i have posted studies showing that cla increases insulin resistence in human models, its not a good supp for fat loss in my opinion and the studies showing positive effects are in animals for the most part.
CLA may hinder fat loss, it is a trans fat. It is not needed by the body so i dont know what candidate is getting on with.
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I actually took 10-12 grams per day for over a month. I did not see one bit of difference. Might be good as an anti oxidant and for general health purposes.
From most studies I believe it helps people that are obese. I doubt it does much for someone that is already lean.
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Decide i have posted studies showing that cla increases insulin resistence in human models, its not a good supp for fat loss in my opinion and the studies showing positive effects are in animals for the most part.
CLA may hinder fat loss, it is a trans fat. It is not needed by the body so i dont know what candidate is getting on with.
lol. cla is not a trans fat... cla is an omega-6 fatty acid..its naturally found in grass fed organic beef and eggs.
you are TRIPPIN, bro ;D
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lol. cla is not a trans fat... cla is an omega-6 fatty acid..its naturally found in grass fed organic beef and eggs.
you are TRIPPIN, bro ;D
first off your wrong, what do you think conjugation is of the W-6 fatty acid? it IS a trans fatty acid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjugated_linoleic_acid
read the biochemistry section, the first sentence should correct you.
why would it be found in ORGANIC beef and not regular beef? grass fed doesnt make it organic, the use of chemicals do.
you have no clue about anything that you talk about, this is at least the twenieth time ive proven you wrong, yet you continue to go on about CLA, post some human studies showing its effectiveness, double blind RCTS please
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Cla is a proven product in studies however diet and training must be on point or any supplement is worthless
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Cla is a proven product in studies however diet and training must be on point or any supplement is worthless
Cost to benfit ratio is the question. I've used it long term and was not impressed.
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The only thing that has worked for me...is just plain STRICT dieting! Nothing else.
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Cost to benfit ratio is the question. I've used it long term and was not impressed.
Cost only means how much value you put on your health
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Cla is a proven product in studies however diet and training must be on point or any supplement is worthless
Post your studies
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first off your wrong, what do you think conjugation is of the W-6 fatty acid? it IS a trans fatty acid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjugated_linoleic_acid
read the biochemistry section, the first sentence should correct you.
why would it be found in ORGANIC beef and not regular beef? grass fed doesnt make it organic, the use of chemicals do.
you have no clue about anything that you talk about, this is at least the twenieth time ive proven you wrong, yet you continue to go on about CLA, post some human studies showing its effectiveness, double blind RCTS please
LOL.
okay, smokepole; do your thing, ill do mine. no point in arguing with you...you wont ever admit your wrong. and most likely, neither would i.
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It never did anything for me
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LOL.
okay, smokepole; do your thing, ill do mine. no point in arguing with you...you wont ever admit your wrong. and most likely, neither would i.
WHAT? i just proved you wrong, grain fed does equate organic. I will admit when im wrong however i havent been in this conversation.
im attacking your facts and you just reply with some quipp about admitting im wrong. PROVE im wrong.
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smokepole... grain fed meats would NOT be organic. grain is what livestock are fed with on factory farms. same with chickens, and fish too. wild game feeds off of the land..off of grass..cla is more abundant in organic beef and eggs than in factory beef and eggs. just as omega-3's and omega-6's are found in organic meat, while they are not found in factory fed meat.
CLA is natural.
you might argue that there are no benefits(your argument would be invalid, however, because it DOES work), but your argument that its HARMFUL is just plain stupid.
linoleic acid is an omega 6 polyunsaturated fat.
what do you think the conjugation does to it?
if you think conjugating an omega-6 makes it a trans fat, well, okay; but realize that trans fats are not deemed unhealthy when they are in the form of a conjugated fat.
look it up.
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smokepole... grain fed meats would NOT be organic. grain is what livestock are fed with on factory farms. same with chickens, and fish too. wild game feeds off of the land..off of grass..cla is more abundant in organic beef and eggs than in factory beef and eggs. just as omega-3's and omega-6's are found in organic meat, while they are not found in factory fed meat.
CLA is natural.
you might argue that there are no benefits(your argument would be invalid, however, because it DOES work), but your argument that its HARMFUL is just plain stupid.
linoleic acid is an omega 6 polyunsaturated fat.
what do you think the conjugation does to it?
if you think conjugating an omega-6 makes it a trans fat, well, okay; but realize that trans fats are not deemed unhealthy when they are in the form of a conjugated fat.
look it up.
First off i can tell you lack the power to deduce. You said "lol. cla is not a trans fat... cla is an omega-6 fatty acid..its naturally found in grass fed organic beef and eggs. "
so, first off it is a trans fat, so you where proven wrong already.
Secondly you said GRASS FED ORGANIC beef and eggs, its found in any grass fed animal, and organic is not grass fed as the title of organic means raised without pesticides, hormones, etc..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_food#Legal_definition
so there goes that whole sentence.
"CLA is natural", SO?
"you might argue that there are no benefits(your argument would be invalid, however, because it DOES work), but your argument that its HARMFUL is just plain stupid. "
you have any evidence for your claims? i do. When adults argue intelligently they provide evidence for their arguments, specifically factual ones not anecdotal or emotional ones like your making.
"your argument that its HARMFUL is just plain stupid. "
::) ::) THIS IS BRAND NEW TOO. ON TOP OF THE PREVIOUS STUDIES.JUST READ WHAT I BOLDED FOR YOU, AS I KNOW YOUR ALLERGIC TO TRUTH.
J Nutr. 2008 Mar;138(3):455-61. Links
Trans-10, cis-12 conjugated linoleic acid antagonizes ligand-dependent PPARgamma activity in primary cultures of human adipocytes.Kennedy A, Chung S, LaPoint K, Fabiyi O, McIntosh MK.
Department of Nutrition, University of North Carolina, Greensboro, NC 27402-6170, USA.
We previously demonstrated that trans-10, cis-12 (10,12) conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) causes human adipocyte delipidation, insulin resistance, and inflammation in part by attenuating PPARgamma target gene expression. We hypothesized that CLA antagonizes the activity of PPARgamma in an isomer-specific manner. 10,12 CLA, but not cis-9, trans-11 (9,11) CLA, suppressed ligand-stimulated activation of a peroxisome proliferator response element-luciferase reporter. This decreased activation of PPARgamma by 10,12 CLA was accompanied by an increase in PPARgamma and extracellular signal-related kinase (ERK)1/2 phosphorylation, followed by decreased PPARgamma protein levels. To investigate if 10,12 CLA-mediated delipidation was preventable with a PPARgamma ligand (BRL), cultures were treated for 1 wk with 10,12 CLA or 10,12 CLA + BRL and adipogenic gene and protein expression, glucose uptake, and triglyceride (TG) were measured. BRL cosupplementation completely prevented 10,12 CLA suppression of adipocyte fatty acid-binding protein, lipoprotein lipase, and perilipin mRNA levels without preventing reductions in PPARgamma or insulin-dependent glucose transporter 4 (GLUT4) expression, glucose uptake, or TG. Lastly, we investigated the impact of CLA withdrawal in the absence or presence of BRL for 2 wk. CLA withdrawal did not rescue CLA-mediated reductions in adipogenic gene and protein expression. In contrast, BRL supplementation for 2 wk following CLA withdrawal rescued mRNA levels of PPARgamma target genes. However, the levels of PPARgamma and GLUT4 protein and TG were only partially rescued by BRL. Collectively, we demonstrate for the first time, to our knowledge, that 10,12 CLA antagonizes ligand-dependent PPARgamma activity, possibly via PPARgamma phosphorylation by ERK.
MORE PROOF
Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2007 Jun;32(3):372-82.Links
Conjugated linoleic acid increases skeletal muscle ceramide content and decreases insulin sensitivity in overweight, non-diabetic humans.Thrush AB, Chabowski A, Heigenhauser GJ, McBride BW, Or-Rashid M, Dyck DJ.
Department of Human Health and Nutritional Sciences, University of Guelph, Guelph, ON, N1G 2W1, Canada. athrush@uoguelph.ca
The effect of conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), a popular weight-loss supplement, on insulin sensitivity in humans is controversial and has not been extensively studied. To date no studies have examined the effects of CLA supplementation on human skeletal muscle metabolism or lipid content. It is also unknown whether CLA accumulates in human skeletal muscle with supplementation. In the present study, 9 overweight, non-diabetic individuals received 4 g/d of mixed CLA isomers in the form of 1 g supplements, for 12 weeks. CLA isomers significantly increased in both plasma and skeletal muscle following supplementation. Skeletal muscle ceramide content was also significantly increased, although there was no consistent change in muscle diacylglycerol or triacylglycerol content. Insulin sensitivity was significantly decreased (p<or=0.05) following CLA supplementation, with a significant increase in glucose and insulin area under the curve during an oral glucose tolerance test (p<or=0.005). The protein content of PPARalpha, for which CLA is a potent ligand, was unchanged following supplementation. Accordingly, there was no change in markers of muscle oxidative capacity. In conclusion, mixed-isomer CLA supplementation in overweight non-diabetic humans results in the accumulation of CLA and ceramide in skeletal muscle, and decreases insulin sensitivity.
MORE ::)
Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr. 2006;46(6):479-88. Links
Conjugated linoleic acid intake in humans: a systematic review focusing on its effect on body composition, glucose, and lipid metabolism.Salas-Salvadó J, Márquez-Sandoval F, Bulló M.
Departament de Bioquímica i Biotecnologia, Facultat de Medicina i Ciències de la Salut de Reus, Spain. jss@fmcs.urv.es
Studies performed on different species show that the consumption of conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) leads to a loss of fat and total body weight, reduces the plasma concentrations of total and LDL cholesterol, and has an antiinflammatory effect. This article reviews the clinical trials on human beings that evaluate how mixtures of CLA isomers administered as supplements or CLA-enriched products can affect total body weight, body composition, plasma lipid profile, glycemia, insulinemia, insulin sensitivity, lipid oxidation, and inflammation. After analyzing the few studies published to date in reduced samples of healthy humans or patients with overweight, obesity, metabolic syndrome, or diabetes, we deduce that there is not enough evidence to show that conjugated linoleic acid has an effect on weight and body composition in humans. However, some of these studies have observed that the administration of various CLA isomers has adverse effects on lipid profile (it decreases HDL cholesterol concentration and increases Lp(a) circulating levels), glucose metabolism (glycemia, insulinemia or insulin sensitivity), lipid oxidation, inflammation, or endothelial function. Therefore, long-term randomized clinical trials, controlled with placebo, need to be made in large samples of patients to evaluate the efficacy and safety of CLA isomers before its indiscriminate use in human beings can be recommended.
Atheroscler Suppl. 2006 May;7(2):37-9. Epub 2006 May 18. Links
Trans fatty acids and insulin resistance.Risérus U.
Clinical Nutrition and Metabolism, Uppsala University, Faculty of Medicine, Sweden. ulf.riserus@pubcare.uu.se
Since trans fatty acids (TFA) might interfere with cell membrane functions, there are reasons to believe that high TFA intakes could affect insulin sensitivity and consequently diabetes risk. It is possible that low amounts of TFA consumed during long time-periods might be clinically relevant. Data from controlled intervention studies investigating the effects of TFA on insulin sensitivity are reviewed. The results show no significant effect of TFA on insulin sensitivity in lean healthy subjects. However, there is some evidence that TFA could impair insulin sensitivity compared to unsaturated fat in insulin resistant or diabetic individuals. This is especially true for conjugated TFA, i.e. conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), which clearly impairs insulin sensitivity. In fact, the effect of CLA on insulin action is the most dramatic adverse effect described for a dietary fatty acid. The inconsistent effect of TFA as a group might partly be due to methodological limitations (e.g. few studies, short duration or small sample size) and differences between studies in design, type and amount of TFA used. Large controlled trials have been required to demonstrate adverse effects of saturated fat on insulin sensitivity, and similar efforts will probably be needed to clarify the effect of TFA on insulin sensitivity.
Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2006 Feb;26(2):307-12. Epub 2005 Dec 8. Links
Conjugated linoleic acid impairs endothelial function.Taylor JS, Williams SR, Rhys R, James P, Frenneaux MP.
Morriston Hospital, Swansea, UK. jswt@totalise.co.uk
OBJECTIVE: To determine the effect of dietary supplementation with conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) on body mass index (BMI), body fat distribution, endothelial function, and markers of cardiovascular risk. METHODS AND RESULTS: Forty healthy volunteers with BMI >27 kg/m2 were randomized to receive a CLA isomeric mixture or olive oil in a 12-week double-blind study. Subcutaneous body fat and abdominal/hepatic fat content were assessed using skin-fold thicknesses and computed tomography scanning, respectively. Endothelial function was assessed by brachial artery flow-mediated dilatation (FMD). Plasma isoprostanes were measured as an index of oxidative stress. CLA supplementation did not result in a significant change in BMI index or total body fat. There was a significant decrease in limb (-7.8 mm, P<0.001), but not torso skin-fold thicknesses or abdominal or liver fat content. Brachial artery FMD declined (-1.3%, P=0.013), and plasma F2-isoprostanes increased (+91 pg/mL, P=0.042). CONCLUSIONS: A CLA isomeric mixture had at most modest effects on adiposity and worsened endothelial function. On the basis of these results, the use of the isomeric mixture of CLA as an aid to weight loss cannot be recommended.
ANYWAY THERE is more but you get the point, the supp is shit with obvious consequences shown in human studies that are well done. This supp can hinder fat loss and does the opposite of fish oil, reduce insulin sensitivity, endothelial function, may have adverse effects on heart health.
THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO TAKE THIS SUPP AND MANY THAT PROVE IT IS HARMFUL. IT IS SHIT IN A BOTTLE.
NOW, you could be an ass and continue to make retarded arguments or try to discuss this intelligently. Prove im wrong
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bro...do you know what cla isomer is sold in stores?
look it up, then re-read your post.
moron.
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Post your studies
Post my studies pshh How about you step on stage next to me and we will see who's cla works and then we will find out who really smokes pole
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bro...do you know what cla isomer is sold in stores?
look it up, then re-read your post.
moron.
I think you should be banned from this board for potentially harmful and negligent advice to be honest. You take PRIMAFORCE CLA RIGHT?
90 Softgels
Supplement Facts
Serving Size1Softgel
Servings Per Container90
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Calories 9
Calories From Fat 9
Total Fat 1g 2%
Saturated Fat 0g 0%
Polyunsaturated Fat 1g †
Sunflower/safflower Oil(High Linoleic Acid) 1000mg †
Conjugated Linoleic Acid(CLA) 700mg †
Cis-9, Trans 11 Isomer 300mg †
Trans 10, Cis-12 Isomer
now read the studies, most if not all supps are mixtures of isomers you tit.
Development of conjugated linoleic acid (CLA)-mediated lipoatrophic syndrome in the mouse
H. Poiriera, I. Niota, L. Clémenta, M. Guerre-Millob and P. Besnarda, ,
aPhysiologie de la Nutrition, École Nationale Supérieure de Biologie Appliquée à la Nutrition et à l'Alimentation (ENSBANA), UMR 5170 CNRS-CESG/1214INRA/Université de Bourgogne, F-21000 Dijon, France
b2 U341 Inserm, Centre de Recherche des Cordeliers, Université Pierre et Marie Curie, F-75005 Paris, France
Received 30 September 2004; accepted 2 November 2004. Available online 8 December 2004.
Abstract
Conjugated linoleic acids (CLA) are positional and geometric dienoic isomers of linoleic acid. Dietary CLA supplementation leads to a drop in fat mass in various species, including in humans. The t10,c12-CLA isomer is responsible for this anti-obesity effect. The reduction of fat mass is especially dramatic in the mouse, in which it is associated with severe hyperinsulinemia, insulin resistance and massive liver steatosis. The origin of these adverse side effects and putative chronology of events leading to CLA-mediated lipoatrophic syndrome are presented and discussed in this review.
IN mice the t19,c12 cla isomer is most effective, so its the main one used in human studies and supps, hence the study below. the first study.
You have been proven wrong on every claim and have offered no evidence whatsoever. If i was a mod i would ban you for being so stupid and impeding discussions with your nonsense.
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Post my studies pshh How about you step on stage next to me and we will see who's cla works and then we will find out who really smokes pole
::)
i hope your not a grown man.
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by the way that primaforce product looks like SHIT. why so high in cheap w-6 oil? it is proven to increase inflammation etc..
ALL around shit product, more good advice from candidate.
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Candidate you online are you going to respond or act like a little bitch. why dont you man up and admit you where wrong, people would respect you more.
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your a douchebag...im always online, 24/7 365... ever hear of breakfast?
haha..
i dont feel like proving my point, or defending a supplements effectiveness to somebody who i could give a shit less if they imrpove or benefit from said supplement.
the research is out there, and the product works. try it, or dont. whatever
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Brutal owning in this thread.
Mbzz. (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103042.0;attach=113243;image)
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your a douchebag...im always online, 24/7 365... ever hear of breakfast?
haha..
i dont feel like proving my point, or defending a supplements effectiveness to somebody who i could give a shit less if they imrpove or benefit from said supplement.
the research is out there, and the product works. try it, or dont. whatever
you have been savagely PWND hahahahahahhahahhahhahah ahahaahaahahhahahahahahh aahahahahha. UP THE DOSAGE.
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You guys are talking about 2 different forms of CLA. The naturally occurring trans fat and the manufactured cla from plant sources.
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You guys are talking about 2 different forms of CLA. The naturally occurring trans fat and the manufactured cla from plant sources.
no
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Linoleic acid is found in vegetable oils, whereas the conjugated variety, CLA is found primarily in meat and dairy products. The form of CLA found most commonly in dietary supplements is manufactured from vegetable oils such as sunflower oil.
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Bump...
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Linoleic acid is found in vegetable oils, whereas the conjugated variety, CLA is found primarily in meat and dairy products. The form of CLA found most commonly in dietary supplements is manufactured from vegetable oils such as sunflower oil.
what do you mean by forms, do you mean its structure, number of carbons your going to have to be more specific. linoleic acid is not CLA, or vice versa.
please be more specific, how are we talking about a different compound?
so far all i see is me providing evidence it sucks, and its well known among people who know there shit that its probably not effective for weight loss, and poses some health risks. this is not directed at you princess.
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what do you mean by forms, do you mean its structure, number of carbons your going to have to be more specific. linoleic acid is not CLA, or vice versa.
please be more specific, how are we talking about a different compound?
so far all i see is me providing evidence it sucks, and its well known among people who know there shit that its probably not effective for weight loss, and poses some health risks. this is not directed at you princess.
I know. I guess that was my point.
CLA IS a trans fat (you said that - I agree) It's naturally occurring. And it might be beneficial.
The CLA sold as a supplement is manufactured from veg oil. Useless & maybe harmful.
As far as the chemical structure differences ??? don't know (or care).
We're basically in agreement here.
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I know. I guess that was my point.
CLA IS a trans fat (you said that - I agree) It's naturally occurring. And it might be beneficial.
The CLA sold as a supplement is manufactured from veg oil. Useless & maybe harmful.
As far as the chemical structure differences ??? don't know (or care).
We're basically in agreement here.
ya this is what i have been saying, its pointless to supplement it, it has shown many negatives and i cant see anygood reason for increasing it in your diet.
i would also include omega 6 in that category too, with the average diet in mind.
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I am wondering if I should invest the money in it. I have read good and bad reports.
What is the truth? Can it truly increase fat loss at an accelerated rate? Or is it just hype?
Cheers....
Best thing I ever tried is Carnitine (unfortunately I can't take any cafein). And I read yesterday that Carnitine as an positive efect on sperm quality, thus promoting T-levels.