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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: dantelis on March 19, 2008, 03:55:42 PM
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The IFBB Pro website put up a story showing all the Pros who have taken 2nd place (some several times) and have never won the Olympia. Which of these guys should have earned a Sandow?
I think Robbie Robertson, Rich Gaspari and Kevin Levrone all should have won it at least once, if not for poor IFBB judging.
CLOSE BUT NO SANDOW
The 14 men who finished second in the Mr. Olympia, but never won it
http://www.ifbbpro.com/features/close-but-no-sandow/ (http://www.ifbbpro.com/features/close-but-no-sandow/)
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Shawn Ray should have at least one, Nasser should have at least one and Flex should have at least one.
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yes, Ray should have one.
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Shawn Ray should have at least one, Nasser should have at least one and Flex should have at least one.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA funny one, seriously though there is no year he "should" have won. If anything at least put Levrone there instead.
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The Black Prince
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA funny one, seriously though there is no year he "should" have won. If anything at least put Levrone there instead.
IMO Dorian never should have won one, he was a great bodybuilder but nowhere near any of the three i listed.
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IMO Dorian never should have won one, he was a great bodybuilder but nowhere near any of the three i listed.
But in 93 Flex's only GREAT showing in an Olympia Dorian owned the shit out of him, it was like the year 1765 all over again ;D
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The Black Prince
Robby had an outsatanding gym body....but for each Olympia in which he stood aslongside Zane...he was off, and Zane was razor sharp. RR never deserved the O.
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Martinez - earned that shit in 07
Ray - atleast 1
Nasser - shined in 97, untouchable from the front, died w/ his back turned
Gaspari - conditioning a lone, excellent
Labrada - top of the food chain " IN A PERFECT WORLD "
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Martinez - earned that shit in 07
Ray - atleast 1
Nasser - shined in 97, untouchable from the front, died w/ his back turned
Gaspari - conditioning a lone, excellent
Labrada - top of the food chain " IN A PERFECT WORLD "
sure doesn't look like Nasser "died with his back turned" here.
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sure doesn't look like Nasser "died with his back turned" here.
Yes....Labrada was as close to perfect as imagineable...like carved ice.....
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Agree Vic should have won the Olympia last year but Vic got shited on by the judges.
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Shawn Ray should have at least one, Nasser should have at least one and Flex should have at least one.
I agree add victor to the list and levrone and this statement is money ;D
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IMO Dorian never should have won one, he was a great bodybuilder but nowhere near any of the three i listed.
agreed. he wasnt better than levrone, wheeler, ray or el sonbaty
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I agree add victor to the list and levrone and this statement is money ;D
I know it hasn't much to do with physicality, but, looking at character, Martinez should have been and always be last
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sure doesn't look like Nasser "died with his back turned" here.
;D..Not a bad PIC at all, cant argue that! " One of his better pics " ;)
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There can be only one!!!! if he was a few inches taller this would have been the most perfect body ever.
(http://www.ifbb.com/halloffame/2004/LeeLabrada2.jpg)
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There can be only one!!!! if he was a few inches taller this would have been the most perfect body ever.
(http://www.ifbb.com/halloffame/2004/LeeLabrada2.jpg)
yeah...he was just a bit too squat
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There can be only one!!!! if he was a few inches taller this would have been the most perfect body ever.
(http://www.ifbb.com/halloffame/2004/LeeLabrada2.jpg)
and to think "the Luke" says he has a physique very comparable to Labrada. ::)
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IF he had been 5'11 he could've stayed Mr.O for 20 years.
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There can be only one!!!! if he was a few inches taller this would have been the most perfect body ever.
(http://www.ifbb.com/halloffame/2004/LeeLabrada2.jpg)
When I first got into BBing I could never understand why he never won an Olympia........ then I found out he was like 5 1/2 feet tall :-\ Regardless he had one of the most perfect physiques to ever walk on an Olympia stage.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA funny one, seriously though there is no year he "should" have won. If anything at least put Levrone there instead.
But in 93 Flex's only GREAT showing in an Olympia Dorian owned the shit out of him, it was like the year 1765 all over again ;D
I'd have to disagree with you both there. You forgot about 1998; that was awfully close. Remember that Ronnie Coleman only beat him by THREE points.
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I'd have to disagree with you both there. You forgot about 1998; that was awfully close. Remember that Ronnie Coleman only beat him by THREE points.
Ronnie completly destroyed him and Wheeler was only that close because of his name, regardless his synthol filled body as overrated as it was shouldn't have been top 3. Also next year in '99 was a clear gift over Cormier who really deserved 2nd, Wheeler was 2nd on name alone.
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The Black Prince
Well, at least he's got the Master Olympia under his belt.
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Shawn Ray should have at least one, Nasser should have at least one and Flex should have at least one two.
'93 and '99 (yes, the year of the oil)
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Robby had an outsatanding gym body....but for each Olympia in which he stood aslongside Zane...he was off, and Zane was razor sharp. RR never deserved the O.
agree!
I do think Mentzer should have won in 1980 over Arnold and the rest of that field and Platz in 1981 over the 1 legged Franco.
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VICTOR!
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VICTOR!
Way to contribute to the thread!
::)
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metzner should not have won in 1980, no way in the world
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Shawn Ray in 1994
Nasser in 1996 or 97
Flex Wheeler in 1998
should all have won.
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metzner should not have won in 1980, no way in the world
Agreed.
Arnie didn't look his best, but still better than Mentzer. After the result we just had in 2007, it amazes me people even care about the 1980 Mr.O
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Labrada by far. An unbelievable physique. Otherwise, it's just controversies: Shawn Ray should have won '94 IMHO, it would have been a good change, the judges would have made a point there in terms aesthetic. Flex was fantastic in 93' but Dorian was just too much that year and by 98' Flex to me had lost everything that made him special. '97 will be debated over and over again, I think Nasser should have won but it wasn't as scandalous as 1980, 81 and last year.
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I cannot find flaws...can u ?
...my former trainer Ron Love who beat Labrada in a couple of shows said he was a bit narrow and small.....I think he's perfect....
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Of course comparing to today's standards, Labrada was "narrow" considering that you have guys with 55 inches chests that are only 2/3 inches taller than Labrada. Labrada is 5'6 so yes, he's small but still better than Lee Priest, Momo Benaziza or Franco. Labrada was all about balance. Judges (and fans probably also) chose the "spectacular" path.
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Nasser in 1997 remians the most disgusting and corrupt event ever in the history of the sport. That is followed by the hypocritical treatment he got in 1996.
That tattooed creature with its huge gut and racist tattoos did not deserve to beat Nasser. Nasser was the most 'shafted' (that word make sense? ) bodybuilder of all time.
I still get angry for him that he sacrificed a career as a doctor or lawyer only to enter a sport where the best body does not win and a revolting convict is simply given his title
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Turn your anger into construction, friend
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How many hours a day does this guy spend thinking and re-thinking about that 97' Olympia? Get a life.
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Nasser in 1997 remians the most disgusting and corrupt event ever in the history of the sport. That is followed by the hypocritical treatment he got in 1996.
That tattooed creature with its huge gut and racist tattoos did not deserve to beat Nasser. Nasser was the most 'shafted' (that word make sense? ) bodybuilder of all time.
I still get angry for him that he sacrificed a career as a doctor or lawyer only to enter a sport where the best body does not win and a revolting convict is simply given his title
IMO Dorian MrO 93 was the best ever,Im not a nut hugger of Dorian i think he was a shadow of his former self after 93 to many tears one arm bicep looked terrible,I give it to Nasser in 97 though it was close he outclassed Dorian from the front and gave him a run for his money in the side poses but the Back was very close.Dorian should have 3 Sandows not 6.
I tend to agree with you the fact Dorian was white played a factor.But quit calling him a convict he was young and unwise, i was in the same situation when i was younger you grow out of it.
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I cannot find flaws...can u ?
...my former trainer Ron Love who beat Labrada in a couple of shows said he was a bit narrow and small.....I think he's perfect....
ron love beat labrada once at the 1987 Pro World.
Labrada should have won in 89 and 90...no way around it.
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Yates was a winner 1993 fair enough. by 1997 his physique was not recosnisable from that and he looked like a disgusting piece of shit. his stomach was pregnant, he was all torn and had no arms. it was a dsiagrace that he won simply becuase he was white and once looked good. IT WAS A FUCKING DISGRACE to give him Nasser's Sandow.
and he was a convict and served time for racial violence and burglary. this is the truth. he even removed some of his worst tattoos.
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Greg Valentino should have gotten one...
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ron love beat labrada once at the 1987 Pro World.
Labrada should have won in 89 and 90...no way around it.
correct..he said once my bad...he also said he should have one the second time but they thought Labrada was more marketable....
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Yates was a winner 1993 fair enough. by 1997 his physique was not recosnisable from that and he looked like a disgusting piece of shit. his stomach was pregnant, he was all torn and had no arms. it was a dsiagrace that he won simply becuase he was white and once looked good. IT WAS A FUCKING DISGRACE to give him Nasser's Sandow.
and he was a convict and served time for racial violence and burglary. this is the truth. he even removed some of his worst tattoos.
I Feel Levrone was screwed the most i give Nasser the O in 97 but in no other MrO.
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correct..he said once my bad...he also said he should have one the second time but they thought Labrada was more marketable....
sorry. ron was a big guy but he only brought it bigtime at the above mentioned Pro World, at the olympia later that year he was off and Labrada was on, I think Ron ended up in 9th or something like that, Labrada was 3rd. 88, Labrada slipped to 4th but only cause Demay looked insane, I don't even remember where Love was and I'm pretty good with this stuff....maybe 9th? Ron was big and well balanced, his legs werent' "great" and in the big shows he kinda got lost in the shuffle. I DO think he was under-rated and probably should have done better at alot of shows but he just kinda faded into the background.
I think it was in 89 where Labrada went on the spring euro grand prix and beat up on everyone, love was there and I think he was top 5 most of the time...he got into a big fight with Phil Hill...oh, well. He lives local to me and he pops up on the news every now and then.
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Haney outweighed Labrada by 50+ pounds except for the Drugtested MrO in 90, Many of those who i have spoke to said Haney was small and Labrada should have won.I have never seen any footage of the contest so i do not have an opinion.
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Haney outweighed Labrada by 50+ pounds except for the Drugtested MrO in 90, Many of those who i have spoke to said Haney was small and Labrada should have won.I have never seen any footage of the contest so i do not have an opinion.
it was actually on ESPN :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
the only guys who were really on were Labrada, Christian and Benfatto....maybe frank hillebrand. Shawn Ray looked really, really good as well. haney should have been 4th at best.
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I think Benfatto was about 175 pounds on stage or something like that. That's what I heard. He looked fantastic but clearly the judges wouldn't place him top 5. Labrada should have won 89 and 90, there's no question about that. He just had the ideal physique to me. About Levrone not winning one, I think he was pretty much very unlucky as every time he showed up in great shape, there' was fierce comptetition. '92 because Yates was unstoppable, '95 was still Yates best "late" performance. And in 2000, the "Colemania" was still strong. Hi splacing in 2002 was pretty much a gift. Had he been at his best in 96 or 97, he would have won one.
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I think Levrone was unlucky not to win in 92 - Yates was far from unstoppable that year - he had yet to put on the unstoppable size but his conditioning was nailed which got him the victory. Considering Levrone had only recently won his pro card I though he did remarkably well and I don't think anyone would have complained if he'd won the title that year. I think Yates's overall size had him beat - by 93 it was all over - Levrone could kiss goodbye of ever beating Yates.
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I think Benfatto was about 175 pounds on stage or something like that. That's what I heard. He looked fantastic but clearly the judges wouldn't place him top 5. Labrada should have won 89 and 90, there's no question about that. He just had the ideal physique to me. About Levrone not winning one, I think he was pretty much very unlucky as every time he showed up in great shape, there' was fierce comptetition. '92 because Yates was unstoppable, '95 was still Yates best "late" performance. And in 2000, the "Colemania" was still strong. Hi splacing in 2002 was pretty much a gift. Had he been at his best in 96 or 97, he would have won one.
benfatto from the front upper body alone was one of the best showings I've ever seen at least up until that point. He was shredded and his proportions were incredible. His legs were weak but if you would have seen a shot of him from the front waist up you probably would have picked him to win the show...
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I think Levrone was unlucky not to win in 92 - Yates was far from unstoppable that year - he had yet to put on the unstoppable size but his conditioning was nailed which got him the victory. Considering Levrone had only recently won his pro card I though he did remarkably well and I don't think anyone would have complained if he'd won the title that year. I think Yates's overall size had him beat - by 93 it was all over - Levrone could kiss goodbye of ever beating Yates.
In '92, Yates still had more size to him than Levrone and as you said his conditioning did the rest. Maybe the '93 Yates was even more impressive but his '92 overall package was still ahead of the pack. And injuries haden't taken their toll on him yet.
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benfatto from the front upper body alone was one of the best showings I've ever seen at least up until that point. He was shredded and his proportions were incredible. His legs were weak but if you would have seen a shot of him from the front waist up you probably would have picked him to win the show...
Agreed. It's true I never paid much attention to his legs but the front upper body was perfect. I doubt that we'll ever see that kind of waiste on a bodybuilder ever again. The "greek" ideal has been replaced by the "Joe the Truck Driver" ideal.
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When I first got into BBing I could never understand why he never won an Olympia........ then I found out he was like 5 1/2 feet tall :-\ Regardless he had one of the most perfect physiques to ever walk on an Olympia stage.
not to forget his posing routine.. also perfect, gracious, smooth and flawless
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No one mentioned Levrone
(http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/4312/levrone13rx7.jpg)
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it was actually on ESPN :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
the only guys who were really on were Labrada, Christian and Benfatto....maybe frank hillebrand. Shawn Ray looked really, really good as well. haney should have been 4th at best.
These were the four I remembered as well, but I recall Christian's legs looking out of proportion a little with his upper body. I don't think he should have beaten Haney.
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I dont know how one can look like this and not have a sandow ....
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Ronnie completly destroyed him and Wheeler was only that close because of his name, regardless his synthol filled body as overrated as it was shouldn't have been top 3. Also next year in '99 was a clear gift over Cormier who really deserved 2nd, Wheeler was 2nd on name alone.
I beg to differ. Wheeler looked terrific up there. But so did Ronnie. That decision could have gone either way. It just happen to go to Coleman, whose previous victory over Wheeler was by the skin of his teeth.
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Danny Padilla in 1981
Shawn Ray in 1997 (or Nasser)
Jay in 2001
Victor in 2007
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IMO Dorian never should have won one, he was a great bodybuilder but nowhere near any of the three i listed.
::)
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I dont know how one can look like this and not have a sandow ....
Cormier is a interesting bber. He looks way thicker in pics than videos or real.
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I beg to differ. Wheeler looked terrific up there. But so did Ronnie. That decision could have gone either way. It just happen to go to Coleman, whose previous victory over Wheeler was by the skin of his teeth.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA So I guess you think a guy with obvious signs of synthol use and suspicious calves should even be considered for winning an Olympia ::) Not to mention he is unbalanced far more then Ronnie while at the same time lacking width or thickness. Ronnie destroyed him and as I said in 99 he def got a gift placing ahead of Cormier. Only year he was ever close to winning an O was 93 and even then he was completly blown away by Dorian.
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Cormier owns Flex
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Mr. Levrone
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA So I guess you think a guy with obvious signs of synthol use and suspicious calves should even be considered for winning an Olympia ::) Not to mention he is unbalanced far more then Ronnie while at the same time lacking width or thickness. Ronnie destroyed him and as I said in 99 he def got a gift placing ahead of Cormier. Only year he was ever close to winning an O was 93 and even then he was completly blown away by Dorian.
He was closer to winning in '98 than he was in '93 (synthol or not). He went into that show as the favorite, having won back-to-back Arnold Classic titles and, lest you forget, of all the times Wheeler and Coleman faced each other, Coleman had only beaten Wheeler once, time prior to the '98 Olympia (and it took a tie-breaker to do that).
To top it all off, Wheeler was ahead of Coleman, going into the evening show. Coleman came from behind and pulled it off. But, either way, that was a close contest. And, Ronnie Coleman won by the skin of his teeth.
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He was closer to winning in '98 than he was in '93 (synthol or not). He went into that show as the favorite, having won back-to-back Arnold Classic titles and, lest you forget, of all the times Wheeler and Coleman faced each other, Coleman had only beaten Wheeler once, time prior to the '98 Olympia (and it took a tie-breaker to do that).
To top it all off, Wheeler was ahead of Coleman, going into the evening show. Coleman came from behind and pulled it off. But, either way, that was a close contest. And, Ronnie Coleman won by the skin of his teeth.
LOL skin of his teeth my ass:
::)
the only reason the scores were not vastly different is that ronnie was totally overlooked in the first two rounds. it was wheeler's showing in the judges' minds, that is, until they noticed how much better Ronnie was.
seriously. look at this domination:
this is not by the 'skin of his teeth'.
this is total destruction of Flex: Ronnie made flex look smooth and oil filled, which he was:
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Cormier owns Flex
It just seems Cormier is missing something...he's no doubt great...but....
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It just seems Cormier is missing something...he's no doubt great...but....
Yeah a few ASCs and a Sandow 8)
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No one mentioned Levrone
(http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/4312/levrone13rx7.jpg)
clavicles too narrow.
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It just seems Cormier is missing something...he's no doubt great...but....
he owned flex in 99 for sure. chris was amazing, and flex was super oil filled and even softer than 98..
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clavicles too narrow.
is a phil heath supporter talking about "narrow" clavicles ???
E
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LOL skin of his teeth my ass:
::)
the only reason the scores were not vastly different is that ronnie was totally overlooked in the first two rounds. it was wheeler's showing in the judges' minds, that is, until they noticed how much better Ronnie was.
WHAT!!!??? The judges looked at Ronnie during ALL FOUR ROUNDS.
seriously. look at this domination:
this is not by the 'skin of his teeth'.
this is total destruction of Flex: Ronnie made flex look smooth and oil filled, which he was:
Domination is not winning by three points. And, as mentioned earlier, prior to the 1998 Olympia, Coleman had only defeated Wheeler ONCE.
No matter how you try to slant it, the 1998 Olympia was a close battle. Ronnie Coleman got the win, by a slim margin; but he got it, nonetheless.
Ronnie didn't "dominate" anyone that year, or did you also forget that, earlier that year, he lost to Kevin Levrone at the San Francisco Pro Invitational, a loss he would avenge a bit later at the '98 Night of Champions.
Bottom line: Ronnie Coleman won the '98 Olympia. But, his win hardly one of "domination".
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he owned flex in 99 for sure. chris was amazing, and flex was super oil filled and even softer than 98..
Cormier placed THIRD; Wheeler placed SECOND. Cormier owned nobody!!!!
Then, there's the matter of Wheeler's winning his fourth Arnold Classic (2000) at Cormier's expense.
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WHAT!!!??? The judges looked at Ronnie during ALL FOUR ROUNDS.
Domination is not winning by three points. And, as mentioned earlier, prior to the 1998 Olympia, Coleman had only defeated Wheeler ONCE.
No matter how you try to slant it, the 1998 Olympia was a close battle. Ronnie Coleman got the win, by a slim margin; but he got it, nonetheless.
Ronnie didn't "dominate" anyone that year, or did you also forget that, earlier that year, he lost to Kevin Levrone at the San Francisco Pro Invitational, a loss he would avenge a bit later at the '98 Night of Champions.
Bottom line: Ronnie Coleman won the '98 Olympia. But, his win hardly one of "domination".
Cormier placed THIRD; Wheeler placed SECOND. Cormier owned nobody!!!!
Then, there's the matter of Wheeler's winning his fourth Arnold Classic (2000) at Cormier's expense.
Too bad you are about the only one who feels that way.
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Too bad you are about the only one who feels that way.
Feeling has little to do with it.
With Dorian gone (and extremely injured, to boot), the 1998 Olympia was up for grabs. Flex Wheeler was the favorite going into that show. Kevin Levrone was not too far behind him. And both men had beaten Coleman REPEATEDLY in previous shows. Nasser El Sonbaty did place second at the '97 Olympia. However, another loss to Wheeler at the '98 Arnold Classic put him in the "dark horse" category. Throw in Shawn Ray, and you have a list of competitors ready to assume the Olympia throne.
Plus, when you consider that all of those other men has placed second at the O (whereas Coleman's highest placing EVER to that point was 7th, which was bumped to 6th after El Sonbaty got DQed) and that all of those men had beaten him REPEATEDLY. Ronnie Coleman was the LAST guy anyone expected to walk out with the Sandow trophy.
Ronnie's win was an upset, pure and simple, which is part of what makes his story such a great one. He leaped from 9th to 1st in one year, beating men that has bested him on multiple occasions, including a red-hot and heavily-favored Flex Wheeler.
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robby
labrada
ray
martinez
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Feeling has little to do with it.
With Dorian gone (and extremely injured, to boot), the 1998 Olympia was up for grabs. Flex Wheeler was the favorite going into that show. Kevin Levrone was not too far behind him. And both men had beaten Coleman REPEATEDLY in previous shows. Nasser El Sonbaty did place second at the '97 Olympia. However, another loss to Wheeler at the '98 Arnold Classic put him in the "dark horse" category. Throw in Shawn Ray, and you have a list of competitors ready to assume the Olympia throne.
Plus, when you consider that all of those other men has placed second at the O (whereas Coleman's highest placing EVER to that point was 7th, which was bumped to 6th after El Sonbaty got DQed) and that all of those men had beaten him REPEATEDLY. Ronnie Coleman was the LAST guy anyone expected to walk out with the Sandow trophy.
Ronnie's win was an upset, pure and simple, which is part of what makes his story such a great one. He leaped from 9th to 1st in one year, beating men that has bested him on multiple occasions, including a red-hot and heavily-favored Flex Wheeler.
You try and make it seem like it is some drama filled soap opera when it's really not. All I can say is if anyone other then Ronnie won it would have been considered the biggest fuck up in IFBB judging history.
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You try and make it seem like it is some drama filled soap opera when it's really not. All I can say is if anyone other then Ronnie won it would have been considered the biggest fuck up in IFBB judging history.
I don't have to try. I simply listed the facts, like it or not.
FACT: Flex Wheeler was the favorite to win the 1998 Olympia, especially after a second consecutice ASC win (once again at the expense of 1997 Olympia runner-up, Nasser El Sonbaty).
FACT: Wheeler, El Sonbaty, Levrone, and Ray all placed 2nd at the Olympia in their careers, while Coleman's highest Olympia placing to that point was 6th.
FACT: All of the aforementioned bodybuilders had beaten Coleman REPEATEDLY, especially at the Olympia. (Name one Olympia, prior to 1998 where Coleman placed higher than any of those men).
FACT: Prior to 1998, Wheeler and Coleman faced off multiple times. Of those meetings, Coleman beat Wheeler ONCE (the 1996 Canada Pro Cup, where it took a tie-breaker to get Ronnie the nod).
FACT: Earlier in 1998, Kevin Levrone beat Ronnie Coleman at the San Francisco Pro Invitational.
FACT: If you had asked anyone who was going to walk out with the Sandow that year, Ronnie Coleman's name would have been almost LAST on the list, especially with his placing 9th in 1997.
To top it all off, Ronnie almost went on the stage dry, until someone reminded him that put on his oil.
Why you have this thing against Flex Wheeler, I'll never know. Regardless, the money was on him to win it. The "soap opera" is based on the fact. That's why Ronnie's flop on the floor was so emotional and dramatic. Here's a guy, who placed "16th" as his first Olympia, while some those other guys mentioned debuted as high as 2nd.
Ronnie Coleman won the 1998 Olympia, which was great. But, your trying to pretend that his win wasn't one of the biggest SURPRISES in bodybuilding history, is quite disingenuous.
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"mikethamachine" is showing how much of a newbie he is
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The Black Prince
If EVER there was an Uncrowned Mr Olympia, Robby is it!! He'd crush a lot of today's Pros as well but back then they wanted a 185lb swimmer as Mr O :-\
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I don't have to try. I simply listed the facts, like it or not.
FACT: Flex Wheeler was the favorite to win the 1998 Olympia, especially after a second consecutice ASC win (once again at the expense of 1997 Olympia runner-up, Nasser El Sonbaty).
FACT: Wheeler, El Sonbaty, Levrone, and Ray all placed 2nd at the Olympia in their careers, while Coleman's highest Olympia placing to that point was 6th.
FACT: All of the aforementioned bodybuilders had beaten Coleman REPEATEDLY, especially at the Olympia. (Name one Olympia, prior to 1998 where Coleman placed higher than any of those men).
FACT: Prior to 1998, Wheeler and Coleman faced off multiple times. Of those meetings, Coleman beat Wheeler ONCE (the 1996 Canada Pro Cup, where it took a tie-breaker to get Ronnie the nod).
FACT: Earlier in 1998, Kevin Levrone beat Ronnie Coleman at the San Francisco Pro Invitational.
FACT: If you had asked anyone who was going to walk out with the Sandow that year, Ronnie Coleman's name would have been almost LAST on the list, especially with his placing 9th in 1997.
To top it all off, Ronnie almost went on the stage dry, until someone reminded him that put on his oil.
Why you have this thing against Flex Wheeler, I'll never know. Regardless, the money was on him to win it. The "soap opera" is based on the fact. That's why Ronnie's flop on the floor was so emotional and dramatic. Here's a guy, who placed "16th" as his first Olympia, while some those other guys mentioned debuted as high as 2nd.
Ronnie Coleman won the 1998 Olympia, which was great. But, your trying to pretend that his win wasn't one of the biggest SURPRISES in bodybuilding history, is quite disingenuous.
I never disputed any of your "facts", I don't see why you keep trying to pound them into my head... I don't think you are getting the fact that no matter what way you look at it Ronnie owned everyone on stage that night. Some people may have had their favorites or "by the numbers" they had some kind of an advantage but it doesn't matter when in the end it's clear no one other then Ronnie should have won. I don't give a shit what the scorecards say because for the most part that don't account for shit on a round by round analysis. But in the end I guess it was a big surprise.... IN 1998 YOU DIP SHIT, anyone with two eyes that saw that show and didn't know who anyone was would pick Ronnie to win without a doubt. The only people it surprised were those driven by the Wheeler and Sonbaty hype train.
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I never disputed any of your "facts", I don't see why you keep trying to pound them into my head... I don't think you are getting the fact that no matter what way you look at it Ronnie owned everyone on stage that night. Some people may have had their favorites or "by the numbers" they had some kind of an advantage but it doesn't matter when in the end it's clear no one other then Ronnie should have won. I don't give a shit what the scorecards say because for the most part that don't account for shit on a round by round analysis. But in the end I guess it was a big surprise.... IN 1998 YOU DIP SHIT, anyone with two eyes that saw that show and didn't know who anyone was would pick Ronnie to win without a doubt. The only people it surprised were those driven by the Wheeler and Sonbaty hype train.
You mean, no matter what way YOU look at it. Ronnie didn't "own" anyone; he simply won the show. You don't "own" anybody, when you have to come from behind to win, as Coleman did that night.
The scorecards go round by round, so your not caring about them makes precious little difference in the matter. Rounds one and two, Flex Wheeler topped Ronnie Coleman; Rounds three and four, Coleman came out on top and was able to close the gap. End result: Ronnie wins by THREE points, harding "owning" anyone, but walking out victorious.
What most ridiculous about this post of yours is the "without a doubt" claim with regards to Coleman. Few, if ANY, expected Ronnie to win this show. It shocked virtually everyone......INCLUDING COLEMAN, HIMSELF!!! Why else do you think it took what seemed to be an eternity to get a tear-soaked Ronnie Coleman off the ground, when Flex Wheeler was announced to be in 2nd place?
He leaped forn 9th to 1st in one year, defeating guys that had been beating him continually for over 6 years straight.
The show was a neck-and-neck race, with Coleman edging Wheeler for the top spot, period.
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I don't have to try. I simply listed the facts, like it or not.
FACT: Flex Wheeler was the favorite to win the 1998 Olympia, especially after a second consecutice ASC win (once again at the expense of 1997 Olympia runner-up, Nasser El Sonbaty).
FACT: Wheeler, El Sonbaty, Levrone, and Ray all placed 2nd at the Olympia in their careers, while Coleman's highest Olympia placing to that point was 6th.
FACT: All of the aforementioned bodybuilders had beaten Coleman REPEATEDLY, especially at the Olympia. (Name one Olympia, prior to 1998 where Coleman placed higher than any of those men).
FACT: Prior to 1998, Wheeler and Coleman faced off multiple times. Of those meetings, Coleman beat Wheeler ONCE (the 1996 Canada Pro Cup, where it took a tie-breaker to get Ronnie the nod).
FACT: Earlier in 1998, Kevin Levrone beat Ronnie Coleman at the San Francisco Pro Invitational.
FACT: If you had asked anyone who was going to walk out with the Sandow that year, Ronnie Coleman's name would have been almost LAST on the list, especially with his placing 9th in 1997.
To top it all off, Ronnie almost went on the stage dry, until someone reminded him that put on his oil.
Why you have this thing against Flex Wheeler, I'll never know. Regardless, the money was on him to win it. The "soap opera" is based on the fact. That's why Ronnie's flop on the floor was so emotional and dramatic. Here's a guy, who placed "16th" as his first Olympia, while some those other guys mentioned debuted as high as 2nd.
Ronnie Coleman won the 1998 Olympia, which was great. But, your trying to pretend that his win wasn't one of the biggest SURPRISES in bodybuilding history, is quite disingenuous.
it was a surprise, but only BEFORE Ronnie stepped on stage.
Once on stage, it was game over for flex.
Ronnie was that much better than Flex in 98
the fact is, Ronnie owned flex that night - made him look soft and narrow.l
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it was a surprise, but only BEFORE Ronnie stepped on stage.
Once on stage, it was game over for flex.
Ronnie was that much better than Flex in 98
the fact is, Ronnie owned flex that night - made him look soft and narrow.l
hahahhahaaa, brutal ownage. :o
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WHAT!!!??? The judges looked at Ronnie during ALL FOUR ROUNDS.
sure. but only after he was overlooked in round 1.
he was not called out in the first call out, the first time that a Mr. O. won without being called out in the first call out in many many years.
since 1984 when haney won if I recall.
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Domination is not winning by three points. And, as mentioned earlier, prior to the 1998 Olympia, Coleman had only defeated Wheeler ONCE.
No matter how you try to slant it, the 1998 Olympia was a close battle. Ronnie Coleman got the win, by a slim margin; but he got it, nonetheless.
Ronnie didn't "dominate" anyone that year, or did you also forget that, earlier that year, he lost to Kevin Levrone at the San Francisco Pro Invitational, a loss he would avenge a bit later at the '98 Night of Champions.
Bottom line: Ronnie Coleman won the '98 Olympia. But, his win hardly one of "domination".
you are confusing your apples and oranges.
if you go by the scorecards only, it was close. Ronnie won by 3 points.
if you go by what everyone saw on stage, it was not close at all: Ronnie dominated - look for yourself.
these are two different things.
the judges scoring in this sport is famously inaccurate at times - hence why this thread even exists in the first place.
this thread is about who SHOULD have won the sandow - ie the judges scoring does not match up to what is seen onstage at times.
I find it ironic that you are insisting that the scoring in 1998 was 100% accurate despite the domination of Flex onstage- in a thread devoted to inaccurate scoring... :-\
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you are confusing your apples and oranges.
if you go by the scorecards only, it was close. Ronnie won by 3 points.
if you go by what everyone saw on stage, it was not close at all: Ronnie dominated - look for yourself.
these are two different things.
the judges scoring in this sport is famously inaccurate at times - hence why this thread even exists in the first place.
this thread is about who SHOULD have won the sandow - ie the judges scoring does not match up to what is seen onstage at times.
I find it ironic that you are insisting that the scoring in 1998 was 100% accurate despite the domination of Flex onstage- in a thread devoted to inaccurate scoring... :-\
Finally you got here, I really couldn't stand trying to argue with him anymore, I don't have the patience (or moronic values) that you have. I just can't believe he keeps making it seem like Ronnie barely won, I mean yeah it would have been a surprise that night in 1998 if someone told you before the pre-judging or even maybe the night show but seriously had Ronnie lost that show it would have been the biggest travesty in BBing history.
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you are confusing your apples and oranges.
if you go by the scorecards only, it was close. Ronnie won by 3 points.
if you go by what everyone saw on stage, it was not close at all: Ronnie dominated - look for yourself.
I've seen it, just as I saw it nearly 10 years ago. And, what I've said then, I've said now.
these are two different things.
the judges scoring in this sport is famously inaccurate at times - hence why this thread even exists in the first place.
this thread is about who SHOULD have won the sandow - ie the judges scoring does not match up to what is seen onstage at times.
I find it ironic that you are insisting that the scoring in 1998 was 100% accurate despite the domination of Flex onstage- in a thread devoted to inaccurate scoring... :-\
I never claimed it was 100% accurate. What I've said is that Ronnie edged Flex to win the title. And that backs my initial statement that Flex was closer to winning the Olympia in 1998 than he was in 1993.
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If EVER there was an Uncrowned Mr Olympia, Robby is it!! He'd crush a lot of today's Pros as well but back then they wanted a 185lb swimmer as Mr O :-\
No.
Zane won his O titles between 187 and 195 pounds.
Robby was great. However, he was always off in each Olympia he competed in.
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I've seen it, just as I saw it nearly 10 years ago. And, what I've said then, I've said now.
and you would be just as wrong if you thought it was so close then as you are now..
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and you would be just as wrong if you thought it was so close then as you are now..
HAHAHAHAHA Exactly, he was on the Flex Wheeler hype train and for some strange reason thinks he should have actually won an Olympia while being an oiled filled bag of shit.
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What most ridiculous about this post of yours is the "without a doubt" claim with regards to Coleman. Few, if ANY, expected Ronnie to win this show. It shocked virtually everyone......INCLUDING COLEMAN, HIMSELF!!! Why else do you think it took what seemed to be an eternity to get a tear-soaked Ronnie Coleman off the ground, when Flex Wheeler was announced to be in 2nd place?
The show was a neck-and-neck race, with Coleman edging Wheeler for the top spot, period.
The show was not a neck and neck race. Ronnie owned Flex that night from beginning to end. A report stating that Ronnie was the clear winner and won big and a interview with Flex admitting he knew he lost:
1998 Mr. Olympia Report
http://www.maxmuscle.com/index.cfm?fa=article&doc_id=22&subcat=body_building
"Coleman not only won, but he won big. "It wasn't really close," said Phillips. "Coleman just walked on stage and virtually everyone in the audience who wasn't totally partisan knew it was over. He was really quite overwhelming." From the beginning of the show to the end."
Flex Wheeler Interview by INTERVIEW by J.M. Manion
1998 Mr. Olympia
http://www.npcnewsonline.com/new/interviews/flexinterview.htm
"I thought I had barely squeezed off enough, but I had no idea Ronnie was going to look like that and I had to match up against not being my best."
"JM: When they announced you in second place, what went through your head?
FW: You know honestly I knew that I didn't win. I knew I didn't win after the prejudging because I sit down and I talk to everybody that I talk to. Obviously I couldn't show them what they wanted to see. So that happened. I talked to all the writers and I told them my feelings and they said they disagreed and that yes, Ronnie looked ridiculous."
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HAHAHAHAHA Exactly, he was on the Flex Wheeler hype train and for some strange reason thinks he should have actually won an Olympia while being an oiled filled bag of shit.
Incorrect!! I actually picked Levrone to win the Olympia. Your obsession with this hatred of Flex Wheeler has also blinded you to the fact that I never stated that Flex should have won an Olympia. What I said (once again) was that he was much closer to winning one in 1998 than he was in 1993, as he only lost to Ronnie Coleman by three points.
The show was not a neck and neck race. Ronnie owned Flex that night from beginning to end. A report stating that Ronnie was the clear winner and won big and a interview with Flex admitting he knew he lost:
1998 Mr. Olympia Report
http://www.maxmuscle.com/index.cfm?fa=article&doc_id=22&subcat=body_building
"Coleman not only won, but he won big. "It wasn't really close," said Phillips. "Coleman just walked on stage and virtually everyone in the audience who wasn't totally partisan knew it was over. He was really quite overwhelming." From the beginning of the show to the end."
Flex Wheeler Interview by INTERVIEW by J.M. Manion
1998 Mr. Olympia
http://www.npcnewsonline.com/new/interviews/flexinterview.htm
"I thought I had barely squeezed off enough, but I had no idea Ronnie was going to look like that and I had to match up against not being my best."
"JM: When they announced you in second place, what went through your head?
FW: You know honestly I knew that I didn't win. I knew I didn't win after the prejudging because I sit down and I talk to everybody that I talk to. Obviously I couldn't show them what they wanted to see. So that happened. I talked to all the writers and I told them my feelings and they said they disagreed and that yes, Ronnie looked ridiculous."
Well, I have a different report, courtesy of MuscleMag International.
From Issue 201, MuscleMag International--an interview from Johnny Fitness with Flex Wheeler, 3 days after the 1998 Olympia:
JF: How did you feel when you knew you'd missed first by just three point?
FW: Surprised!
JF: Would you like to enlarge on that?
FW: Yes, if you like. I knew that Ronnie was going to be strong. Anyone looking for muscle could see at at glance that he had me and most of the others beat on size. He won the muscularity round. Fair enough. I consider myself to have had the edge on him in overall proportion. So did the judges. I won the symmetry round. By the time we reached the posing round, I believe I was seven points ahead
I told myself that in the event I messed up (unlikely, I felt, because posing is one of my strong points) I could be down two, three, even four points and still win. Will, as we all now know, I didn't win. I've been trying to think the situation through in terms of the IFBB's own rules, and I'm still puzzled. I've nothing against Ronnie. He'a a gread athlete. I'm pleased for him, but he too was shocked at beating me by so much in round four.
As for Fitness' report on the Olympia itself, here's a small blurb of his report from that show:
Winning the 1998 Olympia title was not a walk in the park for this quiet Texan, anything but. There's not a bodybuilder alive who can take the challenge of Flex, nasser, Kevin, Shawn without being in the condition of a lifetime. Even then, he'd have to pray that the four giants of our sport somehow managed to have less than a perfect contests themselves. In a worn, Ronnie woudl have to be PERFECT. Only, he wasn't! And that's the fairy-tale part of his success in New York.....
Then the fantasy unfolded. The word went out, "Oil, Ronnie!" and led by the world's best seamstress, Cynthia James, the big man had running repairs and an oil change throughout rounds one and two. the next lucky break of sorts was all to do with sweat. Flex, having been called out for the first round comparisons, was left a little longer to flatten out than Ronnie, who was sweating profusely, began to tighten up like a drum. Nevertheless, by evening, Flex--who achieved a perfect score in Round One, and Ronnie the same in Round Two--was still seven points ahead. It would take a major win in the posing round over Flex for Ronnie to take the title, and Flex is one helluva poser!
Even Ronnie, and his best fan ever, Vickie Gates, were doubtful. The task seemed impossible. But somehow, they pulled it off. I say they, becase Vickie and Ronnie are as one. She has helped Ronnie every step of the way. They are inseperable as a team both inside and outside the gym. The crowd first sensed an upset druing round three, and by the evening show the word was out again. Ronnie could do it. The chant went up, "Ronnie, Ronnie, Ronnie!!" Quietly and spasmodically, at first, then much louder and rhythmically, "Ron-nie! Ron-nie! Ron-nie!"
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"mikethamachine" is showing how much of a newbie he is
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Earl,
Do you think Kevin should have ever beaten Ronnie?
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If you've seen the 98 Olympia videotape you'd know that when they interviewed the fans prior everyone said it was either gonna be Flex or Ronnie. So no it wasn't a surprise, especially when you consider Coleman's NOC performance that year.
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All drugs.
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Shawn Ray should have at least one,
Too small...
Nasser should have at least one
Too incomplete...
and Flex should have at least one.
Not with the conditioning he showed up for the Olympia with...
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Dorian shouldn't have won anything after 1993.. I think 94 was year he tore his left bicep. No way he should have been allowed to keen on winning with the horrible tear.
Levrone, Nasser and Ray should have split atleast 4 of Dorian's Olympias.
Danny Padilla should have won in 1981. Franco Columbo winning was the biggest screw job ever.
Jay should have won in 2001. Vic should have gotten it in 2007.
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Dorian shouldn't have won anything after 1993.. I think 94 was year he tore his left bicep. No way he should have been allowed to keen on winning with the horrible tear.
Levrone, Nasser and Ray should have split atleast 4 of Dorian's Olympias.
Danny Padilla should have won in 1981. Franco Columbo winning was the biggest screw job ever.
Jay should have won in 2001. Vic should have gotten it in 2007.
Bertil Fox should have won in 83 as well.
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Nasser in 1997 remians the most disgusting and corrupt event ever in the history of the sport. That is followed by the hypocritical treatment he got in 1996.
That tattooed creature with its huge gut and racist tattoos did not deserve to beat Nasser. Nasser was the most 'shafted' (that word make sense? ) bodybuilder of all time.
I still get angry for him that he sacrificed a career as a doctor or lawyer only to enter a sport where the best body does not win and a revolting convict is simply given his title
LOL. I think you over- or under-rotated your spin on this reply, Sharma. Dizzy? :)
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Earl,
Do you think Kevin should have ever beaten Ronnie?
2000 and 2002
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2000 and 2002
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i agree with 02 but not 2000, IMO Levrone is the uncrowned 2002 Mr. Olympia, Ronnie looked terrible in 02.
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i agree with 02 but not 2000, IMO Levrone is the uncrowned 2002 Mr. Olympia, Ronnie looked terrible in 02.
Levrone had no legs in 2002.
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Levrone had no legs in 2002.
and yet he still destroyed Ronnie, that shows you how pathetic Ronnie looked at the 02 Olympia especially at the night show.
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Chris Dickerson should not have won a Sandow.
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The IFBB Pro website put up a story showing all the Pros who have taken 2nd place (some several times) and have never won the Olympia. Which of these guys should have earned a Sandow?
I think Robbie Robertson, Rich Gaspari and Kevin Levrone all should have won it at least once, if not for poor IFBB judging.
CLOSE BUT NO SANDOW
The 14 men who finished second in the Mr. Olympia, but never won it
http://www.ifbbpro.com/features/close-but-no-sandow/ (http://www.ifbbpro.com/features/close-but-no-sandow/)
Kevin should have won. Victor should too.
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2000 and 2002
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i agree with 02 but not 2000, IMO Levrone is the uncrowned 2002 Mr. Olympia, Ronnie looked terrible in 02.
You guys have to be kidding Coleman and Cormier both destroyed Levrone despite Levrones gift placing, hell even Dex and Gunter should have beat him ::)
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You guys have to be kidding Coleman and Cormier both destroyed Levrone despite Levrones gift placing, hell even Dex and Gunter should have beat him ::)
you are the only person who thinks this
i remember a few people thinking chris was fat at that show
did you see the show or are you just going by pics? ::)
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Chris Dickerson should not have won a Sandow.
Because.........
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you are the only person who thinks this
i remember a few people thinking chris was fat at that show
did you see the show or are you just going by pics? ::)
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Kevin was exactly shredded either and with no legs and a weak back I don't see how he should have won let alone place 2nd.
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Because.........
If anything he should have won in 81 also, but I can somewhat understand Franco winning I mean he dominated with upperbody and lots of guys (mostly those not named Tom Platz) had weak legs.
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Kevin was exactly shredded either and with no legs and a weak back I don't see how he should have won let alone place 2nd.
his back actually looked pretty good, pics lie
triple H, mike matarrazzo, and joe amato did the commentary for the ppv
all 3 couldn't stop praising Mr. Levrone, they said he was definitly ronnie's main challenge that night
i don't remember them saying too much about dexter and chris
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his back actually looked pretty good, pics lie
triple H, mike matarrazzo, and joe amato did the commentary for the ppv
all 3 couldn't stop praising Mr. Levrone, they said he was definitly ronnie's main challenge that night
i don't remember them saying too much about dexter and chris
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OMG are you serious?!?!?!?!?! I guess I must be wrong if I think differently from those guys because they are grade A experts ::)
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OMG are you serious?!?!?!?!?! I guess I must be wrong if I think differently from those guys because they are grade A experts ::)
yeah a guy like you who has only been a fan for a handful of years, never seen a show, and only uses pics for his argument would know much more ::)
as for those guys, they weren't hired to give commentary because they didn't know what they were talking about ;)
like i said YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE that thinks chris was better
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yeah a guy like you who has only been a fan for a handful of years, never seen a show, and only uses pics for his argument would know much more ::)
as for those guys, they weren't hired to give commentary because they didn't know what they were talking about ;)
like i said YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE that thinks chris was better
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All I am saying is that was their opinion and I along with others have a separate opinion. I mean I know there are more Levrone fans out there but if we set up a poll I wonder who most think should have placed 2nd. I guarantee I won't be the only guy who thinks Cormier should have had the 2nd spot.
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All I am saying is that was their opinion and I along with others have a separate opinion. I mean I know there are more Levrone fans out there but if we set up a poll I wonder who most think should have placed 2nd. I guarantee I won't be the only guy who thinks Cormier should have had the 2nd spot.
anybody who saw the show will vote for Mr. Levrone 8)
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anybody who saw the show will vote for Mr. Levrone 8)
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Well make a snappoll and we can see for sure.
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Well make a snappoll and we can see for sure.
i don't need a poll to point out the obvious but you are free to make one if you need one :)
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i don't need a poll to point out the obvious but you are free to make one if you need one :)
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WTF I am too lazy but I guess I will. I am not saying I am going to win but I think you should be surprised at how many think Cormier was better.
http://snappoll.com/poll/261602.php (http://snappoll.com/poll/261602.php)
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WTF I am too lazy but I guess I will. I am not saying I am going to win but I think you should be surprised at how many think Cormier was better.
http://snappoll.com/poll/261602.php (http://snappoll.com/poll/261602.php)
that poll is looking like a levrOWNING 8)
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that poll is looking like a levrOWNING 8)
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I wonder how many PMs and E-mails you sent out to the Levroneites ::)
Honestly though I am shocked at the results and have a feeling like I was set up :'(
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Here is some pics for those having trouble remembering ;D
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I have the VHS, pictures don't tell the whole story.
Kevin beat Chris decisively because he was shredded and Cormier was soft
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more
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I wonder how many PMs and E-mails you sent out to the Levroneites ::)
Honestly though I am shocked at the results and have a feeling like I was set up :'(
i sent out zero emails and PMs
even if that thought crossed my mind, i knew it wasn't needed because ANYBODY THAT SAW THAT SHOW SAW A LEVROWNING
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listen to the commentary of this vid 8)
i can't find cormier's routine from that show but i don't remember them saying such nice things about him ;)
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