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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: OzmO on March 25, 2008, 01:52:41 PM
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Yet again the bumbling democratic party has yet again squandered an opportunity to put a president in the white house by dividing itself.
In a way it's made polar opposites in it's own party with Obama and Clinton. There will be masses of voters on each side that will not vote for the other if their candidate doesn't get elected. Those voters will vote for what they see as a more moderate conservative: McCain, and then the nail in the coffin might be McCain choosing a black running mate.
The dems might consider dissolving as a party becuase their credibility went out the door as the party has been more and more identified with extreme liberals who even average democrats find completely out there in wack-o space..
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Yet again the bumbling democratic party has yet again squandered an opportunity to put a president in the white house by dividing itself.
In a way it's made polar opposites in it's own party with Obama and Clinton. There will be masses of voters on each side that will not vote for the other if their candidate doesn't get elected. Those voters will vote for what they see as a more moderate conservative: McCain, and then the nail in the coffin might be McCain choosing a black running mate.
The dems might consider dissolving as a party becuase their credibility went out the door as the party has been more and more identified with extreme liberals who even average democrats find completely out there in wack-o space..
I disagree. McCain may become president, but I don't believe the Democrats are a fractured party. We see this type of polarization in every race for the nomination. Look at the Republican primaries leading up to the 2000 sElection. I don't think I have ever witnessed such polarization & demonization in my lifetime. It's not over yet. There's still plenty of time to heal any rifts that have developed. I only see one Democratic candidate slinging mud and scratching & clawing, ...but that will end soon enough.
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I disagree. McCain may become president, but I don't believe the Democrats are a fractured party. We see this type of polarization in every race for the nomination. Look at the Republican primaries leading up to the 2000 sElection. I don't think I have ever witnessed such polarization & demonization in my lifetime. It's not over yet. There's still plenty of time to heal any rifts that have developed. I only see one Democratic candidate slinging mud and scratching & clawing, ...but that will end soon enough.
This late in the game for the dems?
It might be different if it where 2 similar candidates, but here we have Hilary and Obama to very differently viewed candidates who have negated any possibility of them working together.
So then you get the preacher thing with Obama and then the Bosnia thing with Hilary.............. It's like McCain is sitting in a poker tourney and watching his competition eat themselves up...lol
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No matter what your political viewpoint, you have to admit the Dems suck at taking advantage of opportunity. Most of the ones running their political operations couldn't find a clue if it were handed to them.
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No matter what your political viewpoint, you have to admit the Dems suck at taking advantage of opportunity. Most of the ones running their political operations couldn't find a clue if it were handed to them.
That's the point i'm making. And if you look back at it, it's like they sold their souls becuase they thought they had to pander to some extreme liberal ideas or at least extreme liberal ideas or mis-truths that have pinned on liberals by the propaganda and spin from more savy republicans such as:
Liberal = anti-christian
Liberal = Hating America
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I think you're right Ozmo. McCain will probably win this thing. Not crazy about him, but I think he'll do a decent job.
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I think you're right Ozmo. McCain will probably win this thing. Not crazy about him, but I think he'll do a decent job.
Earlier today, I went to McCain's website and read over his policy positions and thoughts. While I don't agree with him on every position, on balance I saw more things I liked than things I didn't, and despite his position on Iraq, I think he will be a real departure from Bush both on style and substance.
"Crazy John" it is! :D
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Earlier today, I went to McCain's website and read over his policy positions and thoughts. While I don't agree with him on every position, on balance I saw more things I liked than things I didn't, and despite his position on Iraq, I think he will be a real departure from Bush both on style and substance.
"Crazy John" it is! :D
Yeah. The lesser of two evils (again).
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Time will tell I suppose.
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Yeah. The lesser of two evils (again).
I don't know if I'd even go that far. He's certainly no friend of the religious right (good), and he seems genuinely concerned with spending/deficit and campaign/political reform which is completely consistent with his "maverick" efforts earlier in his senate career. He's not in with the Bush crowd at all, and his independent streak is a helpful thing. He doesn't have the "rock star" thing going on like Obama, and he doesn't have the charisma of a Reagan, but I'm beginning to think he's a solid choice. Far better than either of the Dem candidates or our current president.
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Despite what most people think, I disagreed with Rush, Hannity, Coulter and Levine on the whole McCain bashing thing, I wanted Thompson but after he conceded I went straight to McCain. My wifes cousin works directly for McCain and interacts with him daily, within the upcoming months we (my wife, me and my son) will be meeting him, my wifes disabled cousin is head of McCains disabled commitee (I think that's it) and she interacts with him daily as well. All say he his as sincere and passionate in person as he is in his speechs!
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OzmO, are you being satirical?
I thought Obama had presidency in the bag? That's what we're hearing in the UK.
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I don't know if I'd even go that far. He's certainly no friend of the religious right (good), and he seems genuinely concerned with spending/deficit and campaign/political reform which is completely consistent with his "maverick" efforts earlier in his senate career. He's not in with the Bush crowd at all, and his independent streak is a helpful thing. He doesn't have the "rock star" thing going on like Obama, and he doesn't have the charisma of a Reagan, but I'm beginning to think he's a solid choice. Far better than either of the Dem candidates or our current president.
Good points. Definitely a better choice than Obama. I do like his independent streak. That will serve him well as president. His credentials/experience are solid too.
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OzmO, are you being satirical?
I thought Obama had presidency in the bag? That's what we're hearing in the UK.
That's what the media wants you to think. The US media practically anointed Obama early on, and I'd imagine the UK media gets their stories on US politics from the US press.
In reality, the race is a toss-up. McCain is ahead by a few points right now, but that's as much a product of the Democratic in-fighting going on right now as anything else. It will narrow after the convention. McCain's real advantage is his stregnth in moderate swing states that usually end up deciding our state-by-state presidential elections.
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That's what the media wants you to think. The US media practically anointed Obama Hillary early on, and I'd imagine the UK media gets their stories on US politics from the US press.
In reality, the race is a toss-up. McCain is ahead by a few points right now, but that's as much a product of the Democratic in-fighting going on right now as anything else. It will narrow after the convention. McCain's real advantage is his stregnth in moderate swing states that usually end up deciding our state-by-state presidential elections.
Edited for accuracy.
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Despite what most people think, I disagreed with Rush, Hannity, Coulter and Levine on the whole McCain bashing thing, I wanted Thompson but after he conceded I went straight to McCain. My wifes cousin works directly for McCain and interacts with him daily, within the upcoming months we (my wife, me and my son) will be meeting him, my wifes disabled cousin is head of McCains disabled commitee (I think that's it) and she interacts with him daily as well. All say he his as sincere and passionate in person as he is in his speechs!
Good info about McCain - I'd like to see more of that shared here... let us know why mccain is the right man :)
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OzmO, are you being satirical?
I thought Obama had presidency in the bag? That's what we're hearing in the UK.
2 Zogby polls a month apart showed each of them alternately edging each other with the most recent having McCain on top. If you look at what the last election was like, i seem to remember similar results prior to the election. The problem is, when it comes down to it, will the average American feel good about voting for Obama in light of this thing with the preacher or will they cast a "safe" vote? Even with out the preacher are Americans confident enough in
Obama to vote for him when it's time to actually cast the vote?
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30 weeks.
200+ days until election day.
We haven't seen the debates yet, where everything is determined.
We don't know what the war will look like in Nov.
We don't know what the economy will look like in Nov.
To believe you "know" either side will win in November is naive. historically, coming out of a war in a bad economy, voters choose change (Ask Bush in 1992!), but anything can happen. To believe you know what will happen is silly.
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Edited for accuracy.
Hillary had a massive lead in the polls, and they simply reported on it. This is about how hard the media has been pushing Obama since 2004. Less that four years ago nobody had ever heard of this guy. He was a junior state assemblyman in Illinois, and after his speech at the convention, the media started talking about him being president some day. He got a disproportionate amount of press when he ran for the Senate and since, most of it not just positive, but downright glowing. It's not like he can control that, but it almost makes him look like a Manchurian candidate or something.
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historically, coming out of a war in a bad economy, voters choose change (Ask Bush in 1992!), but anything can happen. To believe you know what will happen is silly.
You're absolutely right, which is one of the reasons the original point of this thread is so valid: the Democrats fuccked up a golden opportunity to win in a cakewalk. Now it's a dead heat, with independent-minded McCain ahead in places like Pennsylvania and Michigan of all places. If he takes those two, it's over.
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30 weeks.
200+ days until election day.
We haven't seen the debates yet, where everything is determined.
We don't know what the war will look like in Nov.
We don't know what the economy will look like in Nov.
To believe you "know" either side will win in November is naive. historically, coming out of a war in a bad economy, voters choose change (Ask Bush in 1992!), but anything can happen. To believe you know what will happen is silly.
I'm not saying "I know" what will happen. I'm just saying based on what i see now and the direction his retractors can pursue, i don't see him winning.
Your points are well taken, there is plenty of time left. Anything can happen.
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i'm excited about this election year. 2004 was boring. I don't worry too much about the outcome - both will do a similar and good job.
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i'm excited about this election year. 2004 was boring. I don't worry too much about the outcome - both will do a similar and good job.
You should.
The next President will be appointing new SCOTUS justices.
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Hillary had a massive lead in the polls, and they simply reported on it. This is about how hard the media has been pushing Obama since 2004. Less that four years ago nobody had ever heard of this guy. He was a junior state assemblyman in Illinois, and after his speech at the convention, the media started talking about him being president some day. He got a disproportionate amount of press when he ran for the Senate and since, most of it not just positive, but downright glowing. It's not like he can control that, but it almost makes him look like a Manchurian candidate or something.
Don't waste your time trying to explain anything to Benny, in his mind Obama is a prophet and can do no wrong, he is completly closed off to anything or anyone other than Obama.
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i'm excited about this election year. 2004 was boring. I don't worry too much about the outcome - both will do a similar and good job.
2006 was interesting though wasn't it. Mark Foley really spiced things up in those last days didn't he? ;D
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2006 was interesting though wasn't it. Mark Foley really spiced things up in those last days didn't he? ;D
he was just a big soccer fan, that's all.
Wait, soccer *player* fan? What's the big deal?
it's not like he had an affair with a willing woman of his own age. Now THOSE are the folks we should impeach.
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"I must say, I'm a little envious. If I were slightly younger and not employed here, I think it would be a fantastic experience to be on the front lines of helping this young democracy succeed.
It must be exciting for you ... in some ways romantic, in some ways, you know, confronting danger. You're really making history, and thanks."
-- President George W. Bush, March 13, 2008
"Only a fool or a fraud sentimentalizes the merciless reality of war."
-- Sen. John McCain, March 26, 2008
;D
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"I must say, I'm a little envious. If I were slightly younger and not employed here, I think it would be a fantastic experience to be on the front lines of helping this young democracy succeed.
It must be exciting for you ... in some ways romantic, in some ways, you know, confronting danger. You're really making history, and thanks."
-- President George W. Bush, March 13, 2008
"Only a fool or a fraud sentimentalizes the merciless reality of war."
-- Sen. John McCain, March 26, 2008
;D
I think Goatboy is starting to grow on me. ;D
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I think Goatboy is starting to grow on me. ;D
agreed. wow.
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Goatboy has always been like this. It's been almost a year since I noted that he's as likely to say something I love as he is to say something I say WTF on.
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There is this guy who emigrated to the US years ago and got Naturalized there. He said that he has never voted Republican and never will. He has always voted Democrat, but he will not vote this time. He strongly believes either Obama or Hillary will mess up the country even more, and he does not want that in his conscience.
No matter what he believes or whether he is right or wrong, this is one example of one less vote for the Democrats.
All McCain has to do is sit back and watch Obama and Hillary destroy each other and thus give people like the guy above more reasons not to vote for either one of them.
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There is this guy who emigrated to the US years ago and got Naturalized there. He said that he has never voted Republican and never will. He has always voted Democrat, but he will not vote this time. He strongly believes either Obama or Hillary will mess up the country even more, and he does not want that in his conscience.
No matter what he believes or whether he is right or wrong, this is one example of one less vote for the Democrats.
All McCain has to do is sit back and watch Obama and Hillary destroy each other and thus give people like the guy above more reasons not to vote for either one of them.
nice fiction... It'll be a republican best seller ::)
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nice fiction... It'll be a republican best seller ::)
What do you mean?
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What do you mean?
Alot of repugs are claiming independnts and dems are supporting mccain. Also this story is spun on the hillary and obama camps..
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Alot of repugs are claiming independnts and dems are supporting mccain. Also this story is spun on the hillary and obama camps..
Thanks War-Horse! I don't know what the repugs are claiming or whether it's true or not. I also don't know about stories being spun on the Hillary and Obama camps. I just know what this guy told me, and he ain't supporting McCain. He told me that he has never voted Republican and that he never will. He just won't vote. He likes Bill Clinton a lot and says Bill was a great president, but he does not like Hillary and won't vote for her.
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This late in the game for the dems?
It might be different if it where 2 similar candidates, but here we have Hilary and Obama to very differently viewed candidates who have negated any possibility of them working together.
So then you get the preacher thing with Obama and then the Bosnia thing with Hilary.............. It's like McCain is sitting in a poker tourney and watching his competition eat themselves up...lol
I think McCain will win b/c he is a white man and his opponent is not.
I don't think the average american pays attention to the ongoing democratic race. I think most of america is watching American Idol or American Gladiators.
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I think McCain will win b/c he is a white man and his opponent is not.
I think if anything Obama's race will help him, or at the very least be a wash. Liberals of all races will vote for him just because he's black. However, since these types would have voted democrat anyway, it changes nothing overall. Most folks who wouldn't vote for someone because he's black wouldn't be voting democrat anyway. The exception to this might be some of the blue-collar "union" types in the midwest who could have racist leanings and might consider voting for McCain since he's a moderate and a veteran. Balancing this out, though, is Obama's appeal to blacks and young people who never voted before and who are registering and voting specifically to vote for Obama.
In the end, I think he neither gains nor loses net votes in the general election because of his race.
In the Democratic primary, however, I think his race unquestionably helps him.
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I think McCain will win b/c he is a white man and his opponent is not.
I don't think the average american pays attention to the ongoing democratic race. I think most of america is watching American Idol or American Gladiators.
Don't underestimate the power of liberal white man's guilt.
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Don't underestimate the power of liberal white man's guilt.
Again, those are the people who would have voted Democrat anyway.
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I think if anything Obama's race will help him, or at the very least be a wash. Liberals of all races will vote for him just because he's black. However, since these types would have voted democrat anyway, it changes nothing overall. Most folks who wouldn't vote for someone because he's black wouldn't be voting democrat anyway. The exception to this might be some of the blue-collar "union" types in the midwest who could have racist leanings and might consider voting for McCain since he's a moderate and a veteran. Balancing this out, though, is Obama's appeal to blacks and young people who never voted before and who are registering and voting specifically to vote for Obama.
In the end, I think he neither gains nor loses net votes in the general election because of his race.
In the Democratic primary, however, I think his race unquestionably helps him.
I think prejudice is much stronger than political correctness.
I don't see how Obama's racial profile helps him in the slightest. The reason the democrats have been on the ropes since the 1960s is b/c the party lost the South. LBJ admitted that. Nixon, Reagan, and Bush have used the Southern Strategy to win.
If you think a black candidate has a chance of carrying the south then I disagree with you.
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Again, those are the people who would have voted Democrat anyway.
I don't know. I've seen it work on people who swing both ways (voting wise).
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I think prejudice is much stronger than political correctness.
I don't see how Obama's racial profile helps him in the slightest. The reason the democrats have been on the ropes since the 1960s is b/c the party lost the South. LBJ admitted that. Nixon, Reagan, and Bush have used the Southern Strategy to win.
If you think a black candidate has a chance of carrying the south then I disagree with you.
I think the south will vote for a black conservative before they vote for a black liberal.
And certainly before they vote for a Jew.
Just my opinion.
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I think prejudice is much stronger than political correctness.
I don't see how Obama's racial profile helps him in the slightest. The reason the democrats have been on the ropes since the 1960s is b/c the party lost the South. LBJ admitted that. Nixon, Reagan, and Bush have used the Southern Strategy to win.
If you think a black candidate has a chance of carrying the south then I disagree with you.
Again, I think in the general election (November), Obama's race on balance will neither help him nor hurt him. The south goes to the GOP anyway, even if Obama were lilly white. In truth, the demographics in our country have changed so much in the last 20 years that the "South" of today looks nothing like the south of 1970 or 1980. Most of the ecomonic opportunities have been in the south and the west, and population has been flowing stedily out of the north, northeast, and many foreign nations into the Ameican south. If anything, I think you're more likely to find racist attitudes in the midwest than in the south, at least if we're talking about the major metro areas (which is where most of the voters are). The old paradigm no longer applies.
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Again, I think in the general election (November), Obama's race on balance will neither help him nor hurt him. The south goes to the GOP anyway, even if Obama were lilly white. In truth, the demographics in our country have changed so much in the last 20 years that the "South" of today looks nothing like the south of 1970 or 1980. Most of the ecomonic opportunities have been in the south and the west, and population has been flowing stedily out of the north, northeast, and many foreign nations into the Ameican south. If anything, I think you're more likely to find racist attitudes in the midwest than in the south, at least if we're talking about the major metro areas (which is where most of the voters are). The old paradigm no longer applies.
The south used to go to the democrats until LBJ and Civil Rights happened. The democrats of 40 years ago are today's republicans. They still pledge allegiance to States Rights. And that brand of politics has been meshed with big business and religious fundamentalism in a way that the Democrats cannot match.
I think race still trumps any candidate's pretensions to whatever "conservative" means. And yes, even politically correct people are swayed by race. I wish I was wrong but I don't think I am.
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"I think prejudice is much stronger than political correctness".
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I don't think so, there are a lot of people who gave Obama an extra look because he was black, new, and is a very impressive person. I think it will at least wash out in the vote...but its up for debate. I think we are seeing Obama being put under the microscope finally and people are seeing him as a regular politician with positives and negatives instead of a flawless new icon. Several issues have come to the public where they see Obama is not moderate....this is where I think he'll lose some of the independents.
If McCain can position himself back to the middle, he could certainly win this election. He pandered a bit to the right to get the nomination but McCain is a moderate historically and thats where he'll end up. That will attract independents and some moderate democrats. He may have alienated far right wingers and evangelicals but they don't have any other choices. I think he has won some points in his recent speeches and has backed off on the tough talk on Iran and Iraq, which is good IMO.
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Most folks who wouldn't vote for someone because he's black wouldn't be voting democrat anyway.
Goatboy, ...is this your way of saying that you think racists naturally gravitate towards the Republican party? ;D
I suppose that explains why many right wing Blacks and those of other ethnicities gravitate to the Democrats.
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I have to admit.. I was pleased to hear his opinion on the bank-mortgage bailouts. It was refreshing, and actually conservative of him.
I still don't like his war mongering bs.
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Goatboy, ...is this your way of saying that you think racists naturally gravitate towards the Republican party? ;D
I suppose that explains why many right wing Blacks and those of other ethnicities gravitate to the Democrats.
Weird. Every racist I've ever met was a Democrat.
No kidding.
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"Goatboy, ...is this your way of saying that you think racists naturally gravitate towards the Republican party? I suppose that explains why many right wing Blacks and those of other ethnicities gravitate to the Democrats."
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There should be an increased effort on the part of republicans to attract conservative black voters. I think there is a small portion of republicans who are racist (just like some on the far left) but these a-holes shouldn't set the impression of the party. Values and philosophy should be colorblind. As more black Americans are making better $, they see large gov trying taking more of what they have rightly earned too.
I wish there were more than our 2 parties. So many of us are in between on issues and don't like to be forced into a category. Personally, I am conservative economically but very moderate socially.
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The democrats are worst than the republicans. At least the republicans are honest about it and tell you, straight up, that they're going to take all the eggs in the basket and give them to their friends. Democrats do the same while telling you they're gonna take care of the environment and take money from the rich to give it to the poor (which they don't).
That is why I do not vote. Cause the choices are a piece of shit, human shit.
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The democrats are worst than the republicans. At least the republicans are honest about it and tell you, straight up, that they're going to take all the eggs in the basket and give them to their friends. Democrats do the same while telling you they're gonna take care of the environment and take money from the rich to give it to the poor (which they don't).
That is why I do not vote. Cause the choices are a piece of shit, human shit.
Well, would you rather vote for fibrous, solid fecalia or mushy, liquid diarrhea?
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Well, would you rather vote for fibrous, solid fecalia or mushy, liquid diarrhea?
Sorry, I do not vote right wing.
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Yet again the bumbling democratic party has yet again squandered an opportunity to put a president in the white house by dividing itself.
In a way it's made polar opposites in it's own party with Obama and Clinton. There will be masses of voters on each side that will not vote for the other if their candidate doesn't get elected. Those voters will vote for what they see as a more moderate conservative: McCain, and then the nail in the coffin might be McCain choosing a black running mate.
The dems might consider dissolving as a party becuase their credibility went out the door as the party has been more and more identified with extreme liberals who even average democrats find completely out there in wack-o space..
how ws it one of the cnn anchors put it...
"snatching defeat from the jaws of victory"!
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Well, would you rather vote for fibrous, solid ...
{lol} Now that was a visual I could have done without.
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Bump for review due to current events....
What do you think 240?
Looks like the dam thing reared it's ugly head once more in a BIG way.
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Bump for review due to current events....
What do you think 240?
Looks like the dam thing reared it's ugly head once more in a BIG way.
The pastor issue was dead, a month after it broke, despite FOX's best efforts. And the polls went right back to normal.
It was raised again, so the rev could get a book deal, but with Obama criticizing it, it won't be nearly as big. You'll have an obama drop, but it'll go back to normal.
There was definitely an Obama-letdown when the rockstar gloss faded. But really right now it's "who do ya like better" or "who do you think can win this state"?
In November, it'll be "Business sucks, my 401k is in the shitter, my wife can't find a job, food is rediculous, gas is insane, and this old senile prick wants to give me 4 more years of the same?"
The debates decide all. Mccain needs to find a nice "Bush was wrong for these 10,000 reasons" platform before then.
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The pastor issue was dead, a month after it broke, despite FOX's best efforts. And the polls went right back to normal.
It was raised again, so the rev could get a book deal, but with Obama criticizing it, it won't be nearly as big. You'll have an obama drop, but it'll go back to normal.
There was definitely an Obama-letdown when the rockstar gloss faded. But really right now it's "who do ya like better" or "who do you think can win this state"?
In November, it'll be "Business sucks, my 401k is in the shitter, my wife can't find a job, food is rediculous, gas is insane, and this old senile prick wants to give me 4 more years of the same?"
The debates decide all. Mccain needs to find a nice "Bush was wrong for these 10,000 reasons" platform before then.
In September and October there will be a boat load of people who will have finally lost their houses as the forecloses come to maturity. that will also weigh heavy.
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In September and October there will be a boat load of people who will have finally lost their houses as the forecloses come to maturity. that will also weigh heavy.
things are still *good* right now.
The $600 checks will make everyone go buy themselves something nice. Gas and food are still manageable. Drudge reports on rice shortages all over the world, but it's only in the Costcos/Sams here.
However, in the summer months, gas is always more expensive. This means food will be more expensive. This means clothing will be more expensive. This means anything that involves gas for druving or oil for mnfg will be move expensive. Fed going to give 2.5 more, and that's it.
If you're in teh service industry, you're going to sell less of whatever you sell. Most people are going to be pretty hungry by fall. And yes, foreclosures will continue to rise, and at a higher rate, cause NOBODY wants to buy a new house right now, and even less ppl want to BUILD houses, which means most home construcition guys are building dog houses at the moment.
I have to laugh at the people who say Rev Wright (whom Obama universally condemned today) will be the biggest issue in the fall. They're in denial.
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No matter what your political viewpoint, you have to admit the Dems suck at taking advantage of opportunity. Most of the ones running their political operations couldn't find a clue if it were handed to them.
as the saying goeth i heard some reporter say " snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory"
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things are still *good* right now.
The $600 checks will make everyone go buy themselves something nice. Gas and food are still manageable. Drudge reports on rice shortages all over the world, but it's only in the Costcos/Sams here.
However, in the summer months, gas is always more expensive. This means food will be more expensive. This means clothing will be more expensive. This means anything that involves gas for druving or oil for mnfg will be move expensive. Fed going to give 2.5 more, and that's it.
If you're in teh service industry, you're going to sell less of whatever you sell. Most people are going to be pretty hungry by fall. And yes, foreclosures will continue to rise, and at a higher rate, cause NOBODY wants to buy a new house right now, and even less ppl want to BUILD houses, which means most home construcition guys are building dog houses at the moment.
I have to laugh at the people who say Rev Wright (whom Obama universally condemned today) will be the biggest issue in the fall. They're in denial.
Right. We'll be a mess by nov/dec. only bush creating a terror attack would create a false need for another repug in office.................. ...and even then i dont think most will be fooled by it. i would say 70-80% have seeds of doubt anyway about 9/11......imo.
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i would say 70-80% have seeds of doubt anyway about 9/11......imo.
67% of Americans doubt the official story, as of Sept of last year: Zogby.
Given that in the last 6 months you've had japan's parliament and a UN official call for a new investigation, I doubt that number is shrinking...
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67% of Americans doubt the official story, as of Sept of last year: Zogby.
Given that in the last 6 months you've had japan's parliament and a UN official call for a new investigation, I doubt that number is shrinking...
I watched something on youtube....a link by toxic i think, That had an insider of bilderburgs saying that the plan must go forward to self annihilation of the USA. That even if they "Illuminati" had to sacrifice bush in an assasination...that they would. Whatever it takes to create the New world order and the North american union, they would get it done. They want to get the american people worked up in a rage to where they will have support for the plan. CT stuff i know, but interesting.
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You're pretty much spot-on.
Yet again the bumbling democratic party has yet again squandered an opportunity to put a president in the white house by dividing itself.
In a way it's made polar opposites in it's own party with Obama and Clinton. There will be masses of voters on each side that will not vote for the other if their candidate doesn't get elected. Those voters will vote for what they see as a more moderate conservative: McCain, and then the nail in the coffin might be McCain choosing a black running mate.
The dems might consider dissolving as a party becuase their credibility went out the door as the party has been more and more identified with extreme liberals who even average democrats find completely out there in wack-o space..