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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: OzmO on April 08, 2008, 07:15:26 AM
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http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080408/D8VTKG8G0.html (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080408/D8VTKG8G0.html)
Apr 8, 6:22 AM (ET)
By ALI AKBAR DAREINI
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Iran has begun installing 6,000 new centrifuges at its uranium enrichment plant in Natanz, state television quoted President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as saying Tuesday.
Iran already has about 3,000 centrifuges operating in Natanz, and the new announcement is seen as a show of defiance of international demands to halt a nuclear program the United States and its allies say is aimed at building nuclear weapons.
"The president announced the start of the phase of installing 6,000 new centrifuges in Natanz," state television reported.
Centrifuges are machines that can enrich uranium to a low level to produce nuclear fuel or a high level for use in a weapon. Iran insists its nuclear program is peaceful and solely focused on the production of energy.
Ahmadinejad made Tuesday's announcement as he toured the Natanz facility in central Iran. State television also quoted Ahmadinejad as saying that "other activities have been carried out" in Natanz that he would announce later Tuesday.
The president's trip was scheduled to coincide with Iran's National Day of Nuclear Technology, marking the second anniversary of Iran's first enrichment of uranium.
Ahmadinejad is widely expected to confirm for the first time that Iran has installed hundreds of more sophisticated centrifuges that can enrich uranium faster.
The workhorse of Iran's enrichment program is the P-1 centrifuge, which is run in cascades of 164 machines. But Iranian officials confirmed in February that they had started using the IR-2 centrifuge that can churn out enriched uranium at more than double the rate.
Iranian state television did not say if the installation of the 6,000 new centrifuges included the older P-1 or the advanced IR-2 centrifuges.
Diplomats in Vienna told The Associated Press on Thursday that Iran has assembled hundreds of advanced centrifuges at Natanz.
One diplomat said more than 300 of the centrifuges have been linked up in two separate units in Iran's underground enrichment plant and a third was being assembled. He said the machines apparently are more advanced than the thousands already running underground, suggesting they could be the sophisticated IR-2 centrifuge.
But a senior diplomat said that while the new work appeared to include advanced centrifuges, they were not IR-2s. Both diplomats are linked to the Vienna-based International Agency for Atomic Energy, the U.N. nuclear watchdog, but asked for anonymity because their information was confidential.
A total of 3,000 centrifuges is the commonly accepted figure for a nuclear enrichment program that is past the experimental stage and can be used as a platform for a full industrial-scale program that could churn out enough enriched material for dozens of nuclear weapons.
Iran says it plans to move toward large-scale uranium enrichment that ultimately will involve 54,000 centrifuges.
The U.N. has passed three sets of sanctions against Iran for its refusal to suspend enrichment.
On Tuesday, China said it would host a meeting of officials from the five members of Security Council and Germany, as well as the EU, to discuss ways to restart negotiations with Iran on its nuclear program.
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Anybody think we need a balance of power?
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Anybody think we need a balance of power?
I do, unfortunately those guys consider it righteous to wipe Israel off the map.
However, it's inevitable that we will see a nuclear Power in Iran
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I do, unfortunately those guys consider it righteous to wipe Israel off the map.
However, it's inevitable that we will see a nuclear Power in Iran
Do they really? I mean with the multitude of propaganda going on, where do we tell? Do they really want to destroy Israel? Achmenaninijad's translation didn't even work out to that; it came out in reality to something like removing zionism from the pages of history or somthing. I mean, they're not going to hook up the Palistinians by laying waste to their homeland with radio active wastelands via nuclear attack. The whole notion doesn't make any sence. From my reading of it, my take is they are attacking the political movement of zionism, not trying to destroy the jews, but guess what opinon gets the play in western media.
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Do they really? I mean with the multitude of propaganda going on, where do we tell? Do they really want to destroy Israel? Achmenaninijad's translation didn't even work out to that; it came out in reality to something like removing zionism from the pages of history or somthing. I mean, they're not going to hook up the Palistinians by laying waste to their homeland with radio active wastelands via nuclear attack. The whole notion doesn't make any sence. From my reading of it, my take is they are attacking the political movement of zionism, not trying to destroy the jews, but guess what opinon gets the play in western media.
Yes, i trust your research into what Achmen%#$%$#@ really said. However, aren't we dealing with people who believe it's righteous to wage war, kill innocent people and die fighting for Allah and extreme muslim principles?
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Yes, i trust your research into what Achmen%#$%$#@ really said. However, aren't we dealing with people who believe it's righteous to wage war, kill innocent people and die fighting for Allah and extreme muslim principles?
what people?
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what people?
Iran isn't filled with religious extremists in their government?
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Its all screwed up. Lets go home and build our own country for a change.
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Yes, i trust your research into what Achmen%#$%$#@ really said. However, aren't we dealing with people who believe it's righteous to wage war, kill innocent people and die fighting for Allah and extreme muslim principles?
How does that differ Iran from any other country under the sun? Substitute Yahweh or such for Allah.
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Iran isn't filled with religious extremists in their government?
America isn't filled with religious extremists in government or with hands in government?
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Its all screwed up. Lets go home and build our own country for a change.
The nuclear genie is out of the bottle. As years go by, technology will make bomb production a more realizable goal.
I wonder if the US can bomb all such countries interested in nuclear bombs?
It's an open secret that Israel has nukes in contravention of international law.
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America isn't filled with religious extremists in government or with hands in government?
Did you miss the Reagan revolution or the end days germaine to President Bush's religious world view?
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Its all screwed up. Lets go home and build our own country for a change.
:)
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America isn't filled with religious extremists in government or with hands in government?
No doubt, but do these religious extremists advocate the same things?
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No doubt, but do these religious extremists advocate the same things?
LOL, Uh, yea and more so...
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LOL, Uh, yea and more so...
We act on our impulses. Ask the Iraqis about that. Our god is bigger than their god. Some general said that.
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LOL, Uh, yea and more so...
I don't know about that dude, i don't see the same aristocracies such as cutting hands off, suicide bombers, raping 13 girls for walking home with a 10 year old boy alone etc... done in everyday life in the name of Christianity. Perhaps in the name of capitalism and greed we have contributed tot he deaths of many but not in the name of religion. The problem is, Capitalism and greed have logical control mechanisms where as religious nuts don't.
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I don't know about that dude, i don't see the same aristocracies such as cutting hands off, suicide bombers, raping 13 girls for walking home with a 10 year old boy alone etc... done in everyday life in the name of Christianity. Perhaps in the name of capitalism and greed we have contributed tot he deaths of many but not in the name of religion. The problem is, Capitalism and greed have logical control mechanisms where as religious nuts don't.
bear with me, this will take a longer responce, at work right now :)
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bear with me, this will take a longer responce, at work right now :)
np, I'm at work too and just talking off the top of my head. I'm sure you have good arguments and facts and I'm interested to hear both sides.
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The nuclear genie is out of the bottle. As years go by, technology will make bomb production a more realizable goal.
I wonder if the US can bomb all such countries interested in nuclear bombs?
It's an open secret that Israel has nukes in contravention of international law.
Of all countries concerned with defending itself I think Israel should be armed to the teeth.
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Of all countries concerned with defending itself I think Israel should be armed to the teeth.
Yes, and give them all a Dannon Yogurt Tattoo for the added extra badass to wart off the arabs ;D
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I don't know about that dude, i don't see the same aristocracies such as cutting hands off, suicide bombers, raping 13 girls for walking home with a 10 year old boy alone etc... done in everyday life in the name of Christianity. Perhaps in the name of capitalism and greed we have contributed tot he deaths of many but not in the name of religion. The problem is, Capitalism and greed have logical control mechanisms where as religious nuts don't.
Ok, in prep of my response, I would like to just get a few facts.
1. Under what circumstances do they cut off hands?
2. What suicide bombers have been connected with Iran's leadership?
3. What government sanctioned rapings of 13 year olds have occured?
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Of all countries concerned with defending itself I think Israel should be armed to the teeth.
I really don't care about Israel's prevalency in the area in the slightest. It's as bloodthirsty and lawless country as Iran or Iraq. I'm just sorry the US is pushed into the bs.
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Ok, in prep of my response, I would like to just get a few facts.
1. Under what circumstances do they cut off hands?
2. What suicide bombers have been connected with Iran's leadership?
3. What government sanctioned rapings of 13 year olds have occured?
If I'm not mistaken, Sharia law dictates removing a hand for petty crimes like stealing bread. ;)
Suicide bombers connected with Iran? Hamas.
They also execute homosexuals. :D
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Some people work well and play with others, while some have a track record of bullshit. Iran does not work well with other.
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Some people work well and play with others, while some have a track record of bullshit. Iran does not work well with other.
How could anyone not like us? We're freedom fighters. :D
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Well that crap is overblown...that phase or idea will never go away but we look out for us, atleast that used to be the idea. Not making iraq pay...for iraq blows my mind. Sen Levin made some good points..none of which are P4's fault or lane..but good points.
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Yes, and give them all a Dannon Yogurt Tattoo for the added extra badass to wart off the arabs ;D
Yes... absolutely. ;D
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It's as bloodthirsty and lawless country as Iran or Iraq.
The only bloodthirsty and lawless people there are militant ARABS living in that country.
Israel is nothing like Iran or Iraq. I'm not surprised you know nothing about it.
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The only bloodthirsty and lawless people there are militant ARABS living in that country.
Israel is nothing like Iran or Iraq. I'm not surprised you know nothing about it.
Man you sure need to work on comprehension. Ill bet your a "20something" know it all.
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The only bloodthirsty and lawless people there are militant ARABS living in that country.
Israel is nothing like Iran or Iraq. I'm not surprised you know nothing about it.
::)
Another victim of propaganda.
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The only bloodthirsty and lawless people there are militant ARABS living in that country.
These veteran IDF soldiers may hold a different opinion
Burning Conscience: Israeli Soldiers Speak Out (http://www.alternatefocus.org/ConscienceShow.html)
A searing interview with Avichai Sharon and Noam Chayut, both veterans of the Israeli Defense Forces and members of Breaking the Silence. Sharon and Chayut served during the second intifada, an on-going bloodbath that has claimed the lives of over three thousand Palestinians and nine-hundred-fifty Israelis. After thorough introspection, these young men have chosen to speak out about their experiences as self-described "brutal occupiers of a disputed land." Producer: Sat Gwin (2005)
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Wait, let me get this straight, the liberal apologists in this thread believe it's OK for Iran to have a nuclear arsenal because their belief is that the US is led by fundamental zealots and that they think it's their religious duty to wage war, as do every other nation?
So by this I can deduce that a liberal apologists would rather cut of his/her nose to spite the face. You would rather increase international hostilities because country X did this so country Y can do it too.
Also Hugo, what the Iranian president said may not directly be "I want to wipe Israel off the map"... but... ask yourself this; do you believe the US would like to see Iran "disappear"? I'd imagine you'd answer yes, the US would like to see Iran "disappear". So why, when Iran on numerous occasions has made its hostilities towards Israel VERY clear that they're not in the game of destroying Israel, rather they only wish to remove Zionism.
Some rebuttals to these statements would be much appreciated.
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The only bloodthirsty and lawless people there are militant ARABS living in that country.
Israel is nothing like Iran or Iraq. I'm not surprised you know nothing about it.
Israel's ownership of nucular weapons is a de facto violation of international law. That's easy. Israel killed 1200 hundred re-invading Lebanon. Israel's bombing included factories, water systems and Christian churches.
Israel supports terrorism: Israel celebrates Irgun hotel bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/22/wbomb22.xml
Sanctioning Terror: Israeli Death Squads and Torture Chambers
http://www.mit.edu/activities/thistle/v9/9.06/3terror.html
I'm surprised you don't know these things. Israel has a long bloody history.
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Wait, let me get this straight, the liberal apologists in this thread believe it's OK for Iran to have a nuclear arsenal because their belief is that the US is led by fundamental zealots and that they think it's their religious duty to wage war, as do every other nation?
So by this I can deduce that a liberal apologists would rather cut of his/her nose to spite the face. You would rather increase international hostilities because country X did this so country Y can do it too.
Also Hugo, what the Iranian president said may not directly be "I want to wipe Israel off the map"... but... ask yourself this; do you believe the US would like to see Iran "disappear"? I'd imagine you'd answer yes, the US would like to see Iran "disappear". So why, when Iran on numerous occasions has made its hostilities towards Israel VERY clear that they're not in the game of destroying Israel, rather they only wish to remove Zionism.
Some rebuttals to these statements would be much appreciated.
Iran has 70 million people...it's not a thug from The Sopranos. You don't make countries "disappear." Iran has the right to develop nuclear power for domestic purposes.
Israel has made its intentions clear--it wants to run the middle east and marginalize any competition.
I don't see anything wrong with MAD in the middle east. It worked for the US and the Soviets.
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I don't see anything wrong with MAD in the middle east. It worked for the US and the Soviets.
That proved a workable deterrent, because both the United States and the Soviet Union had some degree of sense
There's one country in that little scenario of MAD in the middle east that I suspect if they thought they were going down, would be willing to take the rest of the planet with them.
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Iran has 70 million people...it's not a thug from The Sopranos. You don't make countries "disappear." Iran has the right to develop nuclear power for domestic purposes.
Israel has made its intentions clear--it wants to run the middle east and marginalize any competition.
I don't see anything wrong with MAD in the middle east. It worked for the US and the Soviets.
So, are you denying you believe it's OK for Iran to develop nuclear weaponry because Israel has?
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Iran is trying to cripple our economy by calling on OPEC to drop the dollar.
They want us to starve. Can anyone deny that?
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Extreme religious views have much influence in Iranian government.
That is not a good thing if they are to have nuclear weapons.
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Imagine if 200,000 troops weren't tied down in Iraq and we had them at the Afghan Iran border...............
Maybe this is really what invading iraq was all about in the first place...
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That proved a workable deterrent, because both the United States and the Soviet Union had some degree of sense
There's one country in that little scenario of MAD in the middle east that I suspect if they thought they were going down, would be willing to take the rest of the planet with them.
I still don't believe that rationale.
Countries are not run by impractical people. The leaders may have fiery asinine rhetoric but that's all it is. If that were not the case, then Pakistan and India would have sparked WWIII already.
To me, I believe we had better start developing techniques for dealing with more and more countries with nuclear capabilities.
The nuclear genie is out of the bottle and technology will only improve making the manufacture of such bombs more likely.
We have to find a way to deal with that.
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I still don't believe that rationale.
Countries are not run by impractical people. The leaders may have fiery asinine rhetoric but that's all it is. If that were not the case, then Pakistan and India would have sparked WWIII already.
To me, I believe we had better start developing techniques for dealing with more and more countries with nuclear capabilities.
The nuclear genie is out of the bottle and technology will only improve making the manufacture of such bombs more likely.
We have to find a way to deal with that.
I agree, i don't see how we can stop that from happening. As more and more countries get nukes it will actually be more dangerous that it was in the cold war .
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So, are you denying you believe it's OK for Iran to develop nuclear weaponry because Israel has?
That would be illegal.
But as a matter of course, as technology advances the creation of a nuclear weapon is likely imminent.
I think MAD is a pretty damn effective strategy.
It's worked for those nuts in India and Pakistan. It worked for us with the Soviets.
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I agree, i don't see how we can stop that from happening. As more and more countries get nukes it will actually be more dangerous that it was in the cold war .
Yeah, nuclear weapons are the great equalizer amongst countries. All we are left with is a choice between continued existence under the threat of annihilation or annihilation itself.
Everyone in the room has a gun pointed at each other's head. What a great life that is.
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Imagine if 200,000 troops weren't tied down in Iraq and we had them at the Afghan Iran border...............
Maybe this is really what invading iraq was all about in the first place...
Iran is in the middle. They started feeling the heat when we invaded Afghanistan and iraq, started building a pipeline which coincidentally stops at their borders lol...
The heat got greater when we massed troops at their border last march. 3 carriers in their waters. Then we almost had a gulf of tonken incident when those 15 british sailors were escorted into Iranain water, then their escort suddenly left, and they were alone, surrounded by 6 iranian boats, with order to defend themselves. A massacre would definitely have led to war with iran. But iran didn't take the bait. Was that by design, or just bad luck, that they were dropped off for an incident right as we had the troops ready?
Look, iran needs to realize that they happened to be born on top of all that delicious oil, and when you have a lot of resources, you have a duty to share with others, or be ready to be attacked for it. If the whole country is in a famine, and you were lucky enough to have a cow to kill... you'd better not have a big BBQ every afternoon while your hungry neighbors stare. You gotta share, or be ready to get attacked by desperate people. They can let US firms manage their oil, they can still get very rich, and they ensure powers like US and EUR dont succomb to china/russia.
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Iran is trying to cripple our economy by calling on OPEC to drop the dollar.
They want us to starve. Can anyone deny that?
NO. Bush is killing america by not allowing Iraqi profits to support the war.....i mean Occupation.
And allowing the FED to create money out of thin air, and to allow it to become a mortgage company.
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Iran is in the middle. They started feeling the heat when we invaded Afghanistan and iraq, started building a pipeline which coincidentally stops at their borders lol...
The heat got greater when we massed troops at their border last march. 3 carriers in their waters. Then we almost had a gulf of tonken incident when those 15 british sailors were escorted into Iranain water, then their escort suddenly left, and they were alone, surrounded by 6 iranian boats, with order to defend themselves. A massacre would definitely have led to war with iran. But iran didn't take the bait. Was that by design, or just bad luck, that they were dropped off for an incident right as we had the troops ready?
Look, iran needs to realize that they happened to be born on top of all that delicious oil, and when you have a lot of resources, you have a duty to share with others, or be ready to be attacked for it. If the whole country is in a famine, and you were lucky enough to have a cow to kill... you'd better not have a big BBQ every afternoon while your hungry neighbors stare. You gotta share, or be ready to get attacked by desperate people. They can let US firms manage their oil, they can still get very rich, and they ensure powers like US and EUR dont succomb to china/russia.
Good points. 8)
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Iran hasnt attacked countries for decades, the most dangerous country in that region is Israel who dragged your country into the disaster in Iraq.
Israel can attack every country in the middle east they want.
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Israel's ownership of nucular weapons is a de facto violation of international law. That's easy. Israel killed 1200 hundred re-invading Lebanon. Israel's bombing included factories, water systems and Christian churches.
Israel supports terrorism: Israel celebrates Irgun hotel bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/22/wbomb22.xml
Sanctioning Terror: Israeli Death Squads and Torture Chambers
http://www.mit.edu/activities/thistle/v9/9.06/3terror.html
I'm surprised you don't know these things. Israel has a long bloody history.
Both sides have elements with genuine and reasonable efforts and murderous and horrid efforts. Both sides have good elements and bad elements. The overwhelming principle is that far more terrorism against innocents is perpotrated by Palestinians than by Israelis along with instigating the crisis itself.
But..
The Israeli military mostly defends itself from terrorism by attacking terrorists as best it can.
Palestinian terrorism mostly murder innocent Israelis to appease their hatred of Jews and further thier insane fanatical religion.
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...when you have a lot of resources, you have a duty to share with others, or be ready to be attacked for it. If the whole country is in a famine, and you were lucky enough to have a cow to kill... you'd better not have a big BBQ every afternoon while your hungry neighbors stare. You gotta share, or be ready to get attacked by desperate people.
Using that rationale, ...how does one reconcile the hostily displayed in the USA for Mexicans who move mountains to get into the USA? How would one react if America suddenly found themselves under attack by hungry Ethiopians or sanction crippled Iraqi's? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and if one wants to use a line of reasoning, ...it had better hold up to the mirror test. When your own nation can stand up to and the standards it sets for others, then the argument is sound, ...until then, ...it's simply hypocritical imperialism isn't it?
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Both sides have elements with genuine and reasonable efforts and murderous and horrid efforts. Both sides have good elements and bad elements. The overwhelming principle is that far more terrorism against innocents is perpotrated by Palestinians than by Israelis along with instigating the crisis itself.
Instigating the crisis itself? You mean like taking land from the Palestinians to accomodate the new state of Israel?
But..
The Israeli military mostly defends itself from terrorism by attacking terrorists as best it can.
Palestinian terrorism mostly murder innocent Israelis to appease their hatred of Jews and further thier insane fanatical religion.
How do you know this? I've shown you just a few of the terrorist attacks started or supported by Israel.
Human rights group accuses Israel of war crimes
Human Rights Watch slams 'indiscriminate attacks against civilians' in new report; states that in many cases, Israeli claims that Hizbullah was using civilians as human shields proved false
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3285648,00.html
Read that story once. Either Israel attacks Lebanon or Lebanon fights back and is decimated.
I really love that. Lebanon attacks killing 100 Israelis and Israel issues an attack killing 1000 Lebanese.
Superior firepower (thank you USA) really pays off.
Israel Guilty of War Crimes in Gaza: UN
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4§ion=0&article=105886&d=20&m=1&y=2008
The Middle East is a steaming pile of murder, terrorist attacks and lawlessness. How anyone can depict Israel as above the fray or not as bad as those Arab heathens is beyond me.
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Both sides have elements with genuine and reasonable efforts and murderous and horrid efforts. Both sides have good elements and bad elements. The overwhelming principle is that far more terrorism against innocents is perpotrated by Palestinians than by Israelis along with instigating the crisis itself.
But..
The Israeli military mostly defends itself from terrorism by attacking terrorists as best it can.
Palestinian terrorism mostly murder innocent Israelis to appease their hatred of Jews and further thier insane fanatical religion.
thats bullshit, a lot more palestinians are getting killed due the brutal acts of violence commited by israeli forces. the ratio of victims of terrorist acts is something like 1 israeli against 4 palestinians.
also these israeli counter attacks are mostly way out of proportion of the crime commited so a lot of unnecessary innocent people getting killed by it.
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thats bullshit, a lot more palestinians are getting killed due the brutal acts of violence commited by israeli forces. the ratio of victims of terrorist acts is something like 1 israeli against 4 palestinians.
also these israeli counter attacks are mostly way out of proportion of the crime commited so a lot of unnecessary innocent people getting killed by it.
STFU raghead. Palestinian militants killed two Israeli civilians today in a raid TARGETING civilians. When that guy killed 7 students a few weeks ago, the ragheads were firing their guns off and cheering all over Gaza in sheer happiness that he killed children and teenagers.
Keep praying to Allah!
Do you care that Hamas is starving and denying basic humanities to the civilians in Gaza due to their feud with Israel? Or that Egypt, another muslim country, sealed their boarder with Palestine even though they're starving?
Fact of the matter is that the Muslim world doesn't give a fuck about Palestine. It's just used as fodder to hate the Jews.
The only reason that more Palestinians are dying is due to the fact that the 200 rockets they launch every 2 days at civilians are shit and don't have the long range capabilities they want to kill more. I don't see any military's blindly attacking civilians. As long as the Palestinians embrace Hamas, they get no sympathy.
And all the people bitching about the Israelis taking their land back, the Jews were there first before they were violently expelled. How many times have the Arabs tried to take it back and failed? As far as I'm concerned, to the victors go the spoils. All the bitching in the world won't change the fact that Israel isn't going anywhere.
Mars, why do you deny your Muslim roots?
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STFU raghead. Palestinian militants killed two Israeli civilians today in a raid TARGETING civilians. When that guy killed 7 students a few weeks ago, the ragheads were firing their guns off and cheering all over Gaza in sheer happiness that he killed children and teenagers.
Keep praying to Allah!
Do you care that Hamas is starving and denying basic humanities to the civilians in Gaza due to their feud with Israel? Or that Egypt, another muslim country, sealed their boarder with Palestine even though they're starving?
Fact of the matter is that the Muslim world doesn't give a fuck about Palestine. It's just used as fodder to hate the Jews.
The only reason that more Palestinians are dying is due to the fact that the 200 rockets they launch every 2 days at civilians are shit and don't have the long range capabilities they want to kill more. I don't see any military's blindly attacking civilians. As long as the Palestinians embrace Hamas, they get no sympathy.
And all the people bitching about the Israelis taking their land back, the Jews were there first before they were violently expelled. How many times have the Arabs tried to take it back and failed? As far as I'm concerned, to the victors go the spoils. All the bitching in the world won't change the fact that Israel isn't going anywhere.
You could work for Aipac with your bullshit stories, you make it sound like i sympathise with palestinians who kill innocent israelis. i condemn all violence.
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You could work for Aipac with your bullshit stories, you make it sound like i sympathise with palestinians who kill innocent israelis. i condemn all violence.
Bullshit, muslim. Everything I said is 100% factual. You spew anti-American and anti-Jew hate and make it blatantly clear that you're a muslim with extremist sentiments. You sound like those idiot preachers on that Fitna video.
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"I don't see any military's blindly attacking civilians."
What about bombarding civilian neighbourhoods, destroying homes and killing inhabitants you fucking horseface.
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"I don't see any military's blindly attacking civilians."
What about bombarding civilian neighbourhoods, destroying homes and killing inhabitants you fucking horseface.
Why is it that the muslim world is infatuated with killing civilians? Hamas, Iraq, Afghanistan is full of people who have no qualms about blowing up children, women, elders, raping everyone, torture, violence. Imagine the uproar the world would have if the USA and Israel started firing hundreds of rockets today at civilian towns.
You have no concept of the situation. Just another muslim that hate everything non-Islamic you skinny dutch dipshit.
That Fitna video probably hit home. Can't be nice knowing more and more people want you out of their country.
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Instigating the crisis itself? You mean like taking land from the Palestinians to accomodate the new state of Israel?
How do you know this? I've shown you just a few of the terrorist attacks started or supported by Israel.
Human rights group accuses Israel of war crimes
Human Rights Watch slams 'indiscriminate attacks against civilians' in new report; states that in many cases, Israeli claims that Hizbullah was using civilians as human shields proved false
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3285648,00.html
Read that story once. Either Israel attacks Lebanon or Lebanon fights back and is decimated.
I really love that. Lebanon attacks killing 100 Israelis and Israel issues an attack killing 1000 Lebanese.
Superior firepower (thank you USA) really pays off.
Israel Guilty of War Crimes in Gaza: UN
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4§ion=0&article=105886&d=20&m=1&y=2008
The Middle East is a steaming pile of murder, terrorist attacks and lawlessness. How anyone can depict Israel as above the fray or not as bad as those Arab heathens is beyond me.
Most of what Americans see is a slanted version of what's really going on over there.
Israel is not some innocent victim. They are in many cases, no better than who they are fighting.
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Most of what Americans see is a slanted version of what's really going on over there.
Israel is not some innocent victim. They are in many cases, no better than who they are fighting.
Israel's not innocent by any means. But watching ragheads like Mars make the terrorists into Gods is laughably pathetic.
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Israel's not innocent by any means. But watching ragheads like Mars make the terrorists into Gods is laughably pathetic.
You will never hear me sympathize with terrorists. israeli deaths are just as horrible as palestinian deaths.
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You will never hear me sympathize with terrorists. israeli deaths are just as horrible as palestinian deaths.
How do you feel knowing that despite the fact that thousands of Palestinians are starving and lacking basic necessities, Egypt, another Muslim country, sealed the boarder and won't allow them in? Or that Hamas is willing to let thousands of innocent Palestinians die just so they can keep blindly firing rockets into southern Israel. Sounds pretty petty to me and not really worth any sympathy.
Israel's no better but you constantly jocking all over terrorism and muslims only supports the belief that you'r a muslim. You justify everything they do. Why not admit it clown?
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Im not a muslim. last time i say this. i could care less if you dont believe me. but if thats true of hamas its offcourse a shame. sent me a link of the article and ill read it.
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Im not a muslim. last time i say this. i could care less if you dont believe me.
Second time you've avoided answering any of the questions I asked you and instead decide to focus on me calling you a Muslim.
What's the matter. Got no way to respond to them?
Keep up the anti-USA and Western hate, Abdul.
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Most of what Americans see is a slanted version of what's really going on over there.
Israel is not some innocent victim. They are in many cases, no better than who they are fighting.
I agree and That's my point.
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Second time you've avoided answering any of the questions I asked you and instead decide to focus on me calling you a Muslim.
What's the matter. Got no way to respond to them?
Keep up the anti-USA and Western hate, Abdul.
Who is the rightful owner of the GAZA strip??
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http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3939645/The_Israel_Lobby_and_US_Foreign_Policy__2006_-_Mearsheimer__amp__Wal (http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3939645/The_Israel_Lobby_and_US_Foreign_Policy__2006_-_Mearsheimer__amp__Wal)
great book to read guys.
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I agree and That's my point.
I got several friends both Jewish and Palestinian who grew up in Israel and visit often. I'm lucky becuase they give me another view point.
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Who is the rightful owner of the GAZA strip??
If you want to play that game, the Jews were there before Islam came into existence. By rights, they own it. :D
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If you want to play that game, the Jews were there before Islam came into existence. By rights, they own it. :D
Tell that to the american indian.
The only rights that seem to exist are those of blatant force. Those with the most numbers and guns are in the right apparently.
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If you want to play that game, the Jews were there before Islam came into existence. By rights, they own it. :D
Moses may have brought the JEWs there, but i believe it was inhabited by cannonites or some other group before. It will be solved one day soon.
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Moses may have brought the JEWs there, but i believe it was inhabited by cannonites or some other group before. It will be solved one day soon.
they're all semitic peoples. The main divider is religion.
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Tell that to the american indian.
The only rights that seem to exist are those of blatant force. Those with the most numbers and guns are in the right apparently.
So then why bitch about Israel having Palestine back? How many times now have the Muslims tried to take it back? And how many times have they failed miserably? Kind of contradictory when you say that and then bitch about them having it.
In war, to the victors go the spoils. If the Palestinians want it so bad, they should take it back. They can't. As far as I'm concerned, that's Israel's land until they lose it.
Just like Iraq's oil is ours now. ;D
Moses may have brought the JEWs there, but i believe it was inhabited by cannonites or some other group before. It will be solved one day soon.
I believe the Jews were living there before the Koran came into existence. Where are you going with this retarded argument?
Stick to bashing America. :/
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I believe the Jews were living there before the Koran came into existence. Where are you going with this retarded argument?
Stick to bashing America. :/
I dont bash america dumbass. I state my opinion just like you.
I know the old testament is older than the koran, you dumbfvck. Im saying all lands have been attained by war-mongering anyway. I cant believe im agreeing with you on that....(its embarrassing)
But palestine gets 10times what it deserves as far as im concerned.
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Using that rationale, ...how does one reconcile the hostily displayed in the USA for Mexicans who move mountains to get into the USA? How would one react if America suddenly found themselves under attack by hungry Ethiopians or sanction crippled Iraqi's? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and if one wants to use a line of reasoning, ...it had better hold up to the mirror test. When your own nation can stand up to and the standards it sets for others, then the argument is sound, ...until then, ...it's simply hypocritical imperialism isn't it?
Sure, i'm not denying it's hypocritical imperialism... but it's the reality of things.
in any society from now until back in the caveman times, if one party had a group of resources (whether it be the food, the cave, the womenfolk, or the only fire in town), and there are others on the outside who need it, the party with the goods has two options.
They can share (which means iran could let us pay them to drill), or they can hoard.
Additionally, Iran is going a step further to starve those without oil - calling for OPEC to drop the dollar.
It used to be adhmedijahad saying he doesn't have beef with american people, just the govt. But calling for them to drop the dollar? That'll starve all of us.
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Just like Iraq's oil is ours now.
Where the fvck did you get that idea??
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I dont bash america dumbass. I state my opinion just like you.
I know the old testament is older than the koran, you dumbfvck. Im saying all lands have been attained by war-mongering anyway. I cant believe im agreeing with you on that....(its embarrassing)
But palestine gets 10times what it deserves as far as im concerned.
Why does it get 10 times what it deserves? The rest of the Muslim world doesn't give a fuck about it either. Egypt sealed their boarder with it after Hamas blasted a hole in it, even though the Palestinians are starving. If they had it so bad they would make Hamas stop launching hundreds of rockets at civilians every day. Instead they cheer and applaud a terrorist killing children.
It's embarrassing that you try to pass yourself off as someone with at least a high school education. :-\
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Moses may have brought the JEWs there, but i believe it was inhabited by cannonites or some other group before. It will be solved one day soon.
Back to the fertile crescent?
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It's embarrassing that you try to pass yourself off as someone with at least a high school education.
Is that hard for you.. :'(
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So then why bitch about Israel having Palestine back? How many times now have the Muslims tried to take it back? And how many times have they failed miserably? Kind of contradictory when you say that and then bitch about them having it.
In war, to the victors go the spoils. If the Palestinians want it so bad, they should take it back. They can't. As far as I'm concerned, that's Israel's land until they lose it.
Just like Iraq's oil is ours now. ;D
I believe the Jews were living there before the Koran came into existence. Where are you going with this retarded argument?
Stick to bashing America. :/
The only person bitching about the propriety of the power struggle in the middle east is you.
I'm answering Brixton Bulldog's comment about the evil Palestinians and their role in the middle east as the cause of military/terrorist activity.
I just pointed out that truth that Israel also supports terrorism and through US sponsorship--superior foreign aid--they have the most guns in the region.
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The only person bitching about the propriety of the power struggle in the middle east is you.
I'm answering Brixton Bulldog's comment about the evil Palestinians and their role in the middle east as the cause of military/terrorist activity.
I just pointed out that truth that Israel also supports terrorism and through US sponsorship--superior foreign aid--they have the most guns in the region.
Its not that weird Iran wants to have nuclear weapons too. Israel is a real danger to countries in that region.
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The only person bitching about the propriety of the power struggle in the middle east is you.
I'm answering Brixton Bulldog's comment about the evil Palestinians and their role in the middle east as the cause of military/terrorist activity.
I just pointed out that truth that Israel also supports terrorism and through US sponsorship--superior foreign aid--they have the most guns in the region.
I'm not bitching about the power struggle. I couldn't care less. I'm just pointing out that the Palestinians deserve no sympathy and get none from anyone but the select few on this forum rallying for their "rights" while making baseless claims. I'm laughing at the people like War-Horse who seem to exist to do nothing but make baseless claims while lacking the ability to refute any points made. Mars also excels at it.
Carry on with the tears though, Decker.
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I'm not bitching about the power struggle. I couldn't care less. I'm just pointing out that the Palestinians deserve no sympathy and get none from anyone but the select few on this forum rallying for their "rights" while making baseless claims. I'm laughing at the people like War-Horse who seem to exist to do nothing but make baseless claims while lacking the ability to refute any points made. Mars also excels at it.
Carry on with the tears though, Decker.
Ahhhh. A legend in your own mind, huh BF?? Laughable at best.
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Ahhhh. A legend in your own mind, huh BF?? Laughable at best.
Of course. I'm a winner, baby! Albeit slightly delusional. ;D
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I'm not bitching about the power struggle. I couldn't care less. I'm just pointing out that the Palestinians deserve no sympathy and get none from anyone but the select few on this forum rallying for their "rights" while making baseless claims. I'm laughing at the people like War-Horse who seem to exist to do nothing but make baseless claims while lacking the ability to refute any points made. Mars also excels at it.
Carry on with the tears though, Decker.
What are you talking about?
Pointing out that there is plenty of blame to go around is just sound analysis.
Israel is not blameless as Brixton Bulldog was alluding.
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What are you talking about?
Pointing out that there is plenty of blame to go around is just sound analysis.
Israel is not blameless as Brixton Bulldog was alluding.
You're right. Looking at it now I was ranting and railing against Muslims. I would apologize but that's not my thang so I'll just say you're right.
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Most of the land populated with Jews in the 40's was devoid of population. It was barren and largely uninhabitable. Britain used what was Palestine like that for a reason. When Jews started making the land fruitfull and productive arabs in the areas actually flocked to Jewish towns and, at first, lived mostly in harmony with them.
It wasn't until radical Islam turned a lot of Palestinians against the Jews that violence really erupted. Now Israel might have a more effective military and suffer fewer losses overall but that is misleading. Islamic terrorists target CIVILIANS. Israel targets militants (who then, of course, hide in mosques/homes/amongst civilians so that when Israel is FORCED to fight back more innocents die.). It also doesn't help that civilians harbor them either.
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thats bullshit, a lot more palestinians are getting killed due the brutal acts of violence commited by israeli forces. the ratio of victims of terrorist acts is something like 1 israeli against 4 palestinians.
also these israeli counter attacks are mostly way out of proportion of the crime commited so a lot of unnecessary innocent people getting killed by it.
What are you talking about?
Everyone knows a stone in the hands of an eight yr. old boy is deadlier than 3 IDF soldiers armed with oozies!
Haven't you seen how stone throwing youngsters have decimated Israeli tank units. ::)
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If you want to play that game, the Jews were there before Islam came into existence. By rights, they own it. :D
Try applying that same argument to California, Arizona, New Mexico & Texas... infact, the entire USA. HYPOCRITE!
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Sure, i'm not denying it's hypocritical imperialism... but it's the reality of things.
in any society from now until back in the caveman times, if one party had a group of resources (whether it be the food, the cave, the womenfolk, or the only fire in town), and there are others on the outside who need it, the party with the goods has two options.
They can share (which means iran could let us pay them to drill), or they can hoard.
Additionally, Iran is going a step further to starve those without oil - calling for OPEC to drop the dollar.
It used to be adhmedijahad saying he doesn't have beef with american people, just the govt. But calling for them to drop the dollar? That'll starve all of us.
Do you think achme.... (I can't spell it either) ;) ...the president of Iran is calling for the end of the USD as the reserve currency for oil purchases in a direct attempt to hurt the US, ...or do you suppose he's doing that as a direct attempt to protect itself, ...in much the same way that Giselle Bundchen called for her hefty modeling fees to no longer be paid in US currency, ...but in Euros?
It seems to me that most here are perfectly content to have the US make completely selfish decisions that benefit the US alone, ...while devastating the rest of the world, ...but the instant that any one country makes a logical, prudent, and reasonable decision to protect itself, ...it becomes a high crime if it in any way inconveniences the US
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What are you talking about?
Everyone knows a stone in the hands of an eight yr. old boy is deadlier than 3 IDF soldiers armed with oozies!
Haven't you seen how stone throwing youngsters have decimated Israeli tank units. ::)
ehh i do agree with your arguments so what do you mean?
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Tell that to the american indian.
The only rights that seem to exist are those of blatant force. Those with the most numbers and guns are in the right apparently.
exactly, the same as some americans claiming a part of europe because thats where their original roots are.
what would the world look like if anyone would went back to where they were thousants years ago.
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Try applying that same argument to California, Arizona, New Mexico & Texas... infact, the entire USA. HYPOCRITE!
Don't forget Canada and Mexico! ;D
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Do you think achme.... (I can't spell it either) ;) ...the president of Iran is calling for the end of the USD as the reserve currency for oil purchases in a direct attempt to hurt the US, ...or do you suppose he's doing that as a direct attempt to protect itself, ...in much the same way that Giselle Bundchen called for her hefty modeling fees to no longer be paid in US currency, ...but in Euros?
It seems to me that most here are perfectly content to have the US make completely selfish decisions that benefit the US alone, ...while devastating the rest of the world, ...but the instant that any one country makes a logical, prudent, and reasonable decision to protect itself, ...it becomes a high crime if it in any way inconveniences the US
Just out of curiousity.. do you think radical Islam is devestating the rest of the world?
My guess is you'll blame the USA for that too.
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Just out of curiousity.. do you think radical Islam is devestating the rest of the world?
My guess is you'll blame the USA for that too.
well they can certainly take part in the blame yes.
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Oh yeah its our fault that they blow up pizza joints and kill children. We'd be a hell of alot better off if that fucked up religion and the weak minded blood thirsty followers of it, would roll over and die. Sorry folks, America is not the root cause of evil in this world. I know of no military in the world that immediately rebuilds countries whether they are responsible for the damage or not. We rebuilt Japan and Germany. We got Korea back on its feet...and we're rebuilding Afghanistan to a level beyond anything they've had. In Iraq we are restoring what we broke.
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Try applying that same argument to California, Arizona, New Mexico & Texas... infact, the entire USA. HYPOCRITE!
It's not hypocritical you dumb c*nt. I believe Americans own this land just like the Israelis own that land. If the Arabs want it back so badly, TAKE IT. Just like the Native Americans are welcome to do. All's fair in love and war and to the victors go the spoils.
Israel was outnumbered what? 50 to 1 in those two wars and they ended up actually TAKING more land. As far as I'm concerned that's their territory until they lose it. Two wars the Muslim world has gotten the shit kicked out of them trying to take it back. They lost that claim to that land.
However, I don't sympathize with people thatit have no qualms about blindly targeting civilians and celebrating the deaths of children and innocents at the hands of extremists, which is the Muslim M.O. these days. I don't see Israel launching 100 Qassam rockets into Gaza at civilians every day, do I?
People cry that it's Palestinian land. The Jews were there before Islam came into existence. Who is the authority on how far back to go on land claims? 50 years? 100? 5000?
Ironically, your dumb ass is probably living on former Indian land in Canada, so do me a favor and stick to peddling your gas alternatives and give up playing the intellectual role. :D
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If the damm muslims care so much for each other, there is plenty of desert that Jordan, Egypt or Syria could carve out for the Palestinians. They won't do it because they know that they are a prize pain in the ass for everybody else. So much for muslim brotherhood.
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If the damm muslims care so much for each other, there is plenty of desert that Jordan, Egypt or Syria could carve out for the Palestinians. They won't do it because they know that they are a prize pain in the ass for everybody else. So much for muslim brotherhood.
Exactly, all these people bitching about Palestinians crack me up. The rest of the Muslim world couldn't care less about them and continually shits on them. They only use them as fuel for hating Israel.
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Iran is trying to cripple our economy by calling on OPEC to drop the dollar.
They want us to starve. Can anyone deny that?
It shouldn't be quoted in dollars any longer.
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Most of what Americans see is a slanted version of what's really going on over there.
Israel is not some innocent victim. They are in many cases, no better than who they are fighting.
People in general have a hard time putting themselves in other peoples shoes. They don't study and learn about other cultures from many different sources of information or actual travelling. Most individuals allow corprate media to formulate their opinions for them and they just go with it.
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People in general have a hard time putting themselves in other peoples shoes. They don't study and learn about other cultures from many different sources of information or actual travelling. Most individuals allow corprate media to formulate their opinions for them and they just go with it.
very true, i actually do that all the time.
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Just out of curiousity.. do you think radical Islam is devestating the rest of the world?
My guess is you'll blame the USA for that too.
I believe radicalism and extremism is not a good thing, ...wherever radicalism or extremism is to be found.
I do believe the USA bears some responsibility in the growth of islamic extremism. Theirs was a dying self-distintegrating and unsustainable model on the verge of extinction until Uncle Sam came along with billions of dollars and multiple weapons spurring new life into the movement, ...then and NOW.
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I believe radicalism and extremism is not a good thing, ...wherever radicalism or extremism is to be found.
I do believe the USA bears some responsibility in the growth of islamic extremism. Theirs was a dying self-distintegrating and unsustainable model on the verge of extinction until Uncle Sam came along with billions of dollars and multiple weapons spurring new life into the movement, ...then and NOW.
What a cop out..
IF the US bears responsibility for any aspect of radical Islam it would be relatively recent and largely overshadowed by what radical Islam has been doing to the world for the last 30 years. Where is your disgust with thier behaviour since the late 70's? I get it.. you just want one more reason to bash the US.
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What a cop out..
IF the US bears responsibility for any aspect of radical Islam it would be relatively recent and largely overshadowed by what radical Islam has been doing to the world for the last 30 years. Where is your disgust with thier behaviour since the late 70's? I get it.. you just want one more reason to bash the US.
not for any aspect no but it did increased dramaticly since bush started to interfer in places where he had no business in.
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not for any aspect no but it did increased dramaticly since bush started to interfer in places where he had no business in.
Thanks for proving my point. ::)
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What a cop out..
IF the US bears responsibility for any aspect of radical Islam it would be relatively recent and largely overshadowed by what radical Islam has been doing to the world for the last 30 years. Where is your disgust with thier behaviour since the late 70's? I get it.. you just want one more reason to bash the US.
The Shah of Iran flees into exile 1979. America's influence and manipulation in the East have been happening for a looong time.
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The Shah of Iran flees into exile 1979. America's influence and manipulation in the East have been happening for a looong time.
exactly.
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The Shah of Iran flees into exile 1979. America's influence and manipulation in the East have been happening for a looong time.
Yet another cop out... let's blame the US instead of holding actual accountability for the perpatrators of this:
4 September 1972 - Munich Olympic Massacre.
18 April 1983 - April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing in Beirut, Lebanon. 63 killed.
26 February 1993 - World Trade Center bombing, New York City. 6 killed.
13 March 1993 - 1993 Bombay bombings. Mumbai, India. The single-day attacks resulted in over 250 civilian fatalities and 700 injuries.
24 December 1994 - Air France Flight 8969 hijacking in Algiers by 3 members of Armed Islamic Group and another terrorist. 7 killed including 4 hijackers.
25 June 1996 - Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.
14 February 1998. The 1998 Coimbatore bombings occurred in the city of Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu, India. 46 people were killed and over 200 were injured in 13 bomb attacks within a 12km radius.
7 August 1998 - 1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. 224 dead. 4000+ injured.
12 October 2000 - USS Cole bombing, 56 killed
11 September 2001 - September 11, 2001 attacks 4 planes hijacked and crashed into World Trade Center and The Pentagon by 19 hijackers. Nearly 3000 dead.[116]
13 December 2001 - Suicide attack on India's parliament in New Delhi. Aimed at eliminating the top leadership of India and causing anarchy in the country. Allegedly done by Pakistan-based Islamist terrorist organizations, Jaish-E-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toiba.
3 March 2002 - Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 29 dead, 133 injured
9 March 2002 - Café suicide bombing in Jerusalem; 11 killed, 54 injured.
7 May 2002 - Bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured.
24 September 2002 - Machine Gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured.[117][118]
12 October 2002 - Bombing in Bali nightclub. 202 killed, 300 injured.[119]
16 May 2004 - Casablanca Attacks - 4 simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Salafaia Jihadia.
11 March 2004 - Multiple bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured. (alleged link to Al-Qaeda)
3 September 2004 Approximately 344 civilians including 186 children, are killed during the Beslan school hostage crisis.[120][121]
2 November 2004 - Ritual murder of Theo van Gogh (film director) by Amsterdam-born jihadist Mohammed Bouyeri.
4 February 2005 - Muslim militants attacked the Christian community in Demsa, Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people.
7 July 2005 - Multiple bombings in London Underground. 53 killed by four suicide bombers. Nearly 700 injured.
23 July 2005 - Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, at least 64 people killed.
29 October 2005 - 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings. Over 60 killed and over 180 injured in a series of three attacks in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali festival.[122]
9 November 2005 - 2005 Amman bombings. Over 60 killed and 115 injured, in a series of coordinated suicide attacks on hotels in Amman, Jordan.[123][124] Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved.[125]
7 March 2006 - 2006 Varanasi bombings. An attack attributed to Lashkar-e-Toiba by Uttar Pradesh government officials, over 28 killed and over 100 injured, in a series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi.[126] Uttar Pradesh government officials.
11 July 2006. Mumbai, India. 11 July 2006 Mumbai train bombings were a series of seven bomb blasts that took place over a period of 11 minutes on the Suburban Railway in Mumbai (formerly known as Bombay). 209 people lost their lives and over 700 were injured in the attacks.
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Yet another cop out... let's blame the US instead of holding actual accountability for the perpatrators of this:
4 September 1972 - Munich Olympic Massacre.
18 April 1983 - April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing in Beirut, Lebanon. 63 killed.
26 February 1993 - World Trade Center bombing, New York City. 6 killed.
13 March 1993 - 1993 Bombay bombings. Mumbai, India. The single-day attacks resulted in over 250 civilian fatalities and 700 injuries.
24 December 1994 - Air France Flight 8969 hijacking in Algiers by 3 members of Armed Islamic Group and another terrorist. 7 killed including 4 hijackers.
25 June 1996 - Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.
14 February 1998. The 1998 Coimbatore bombings occurred in the city of Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu, India. 46 people were killed and over 200 were injured in 13 bomb attacks within a 12km radius.
7 August 1998 - 1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. 224 dead. 4000+ injured.
12 October 2000 - USS Cole bombing, 56 killed
11 September 2001 - September 11, 2001 attacks 4 planes hijacked and crashed into World Trade Center and The Pentagon by 19 hijackers. Nearly 3000 dead.[116]
13 December 2001 - Suicide attack on India's parliament in New Delhi. Aimed at eliminating the top leadership of India and causing anarchy in the country. Allegedly done by Pakistan-based Islamist terrorist organizations, Jaish-E-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toiba.
3 March 2002 - Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 29 dead, 133 injured
9 March 2002 - Café suicide bombing in Jerusalem; 11 killed, 54 injured.
7 May 2002 - Bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured.
24 September 2002 - Machine Gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured.[117][118]
12 October 2002 - Bombing in Bali nightclub. 202 killed, 300 injured.[119]
16 May 2004 - Casablanca Attacks - 4 simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Salafaia Jihadia.
11 March 2004 - Multiple bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured. (alleged link to Al-Qaeda)
3 September 2004 Approximately 344 civilians including 186 children, are killed during the Beslan school hostage crisis.[120][121]
2 November 2004 - Ritual murder of Theo van Gogh (film director) by Amsterdam-born jihadist Mohammed Bouyeri.
4 February 2005 - Muslim militants attacked the Christian community in Demsa, Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people.
7 July 2005 - Multiple bombings in London Underground. 53 killed by four suicide bombers. Nearly 700 injured.
23 July 2005 - Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, at least 64 people killed.
29 October 2005 - 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings. Over 60 killed and over 180 injured in a series of three attacks in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali festival.[122]
9 November 2005 - 2005 Amman bombings. Over 60 killed and 115 injured, in a series of coordinated suicide attacks on hotels in Amman, Jordan.[123][124] Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved.[125]
7 March 2006 - 2006 Varanasi bombings. An attack attributed to Lashkar-e-Toiba by Uttar Pradesh government officials, over 28 killed and over 100 injured, in a series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi.[126] Uttar Pradesh government officials.
11 July 2006. Mumbai, India. 11 July 2006 Mumbai train bombings were a series of seven bomb blasts that took place over a period of 11 minutes on the Suburban Railway in Mumbai (formerly known as Bombay). 209 people lost their lives and over 700 were injured in the attacks.
It would be nice to get into a healthy debate with you but you'll just jump from one thing to the next without a rebuttal that sticks to the actual discussion. You said "it (America's responsilbilty) would be relatively recent and largely overshadowed by what radical Islam has been doing to the world for the last 30 years", and I supplied you with ONE example of American intervention that resulted in "blowback" from 30 years ago. Do you want me to post another example that's even older? You went on to list a whole bunch gobbly goop that's suppose to say what exactly?
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What a cop out..
IF the US bears responsibility for any aspect of radical Islam it would be relatively recent and largely overshadowed by what radical Islam has been doing to the world for the last 30 years. Where is your disgust with thier behaviour since the late 70's? I get it.. you just want one more reason to bash the US.
Attn: Brittneydung. The US gets alot done thru Israel to stir shit up for decades. FYI....I lean to Israels side more than lebanons.....
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It would be nice to get into a healthy debate with you but you'll just jump from one thing to the next without a rebuttal that sticks to the actual discussion. You said "it (America's responsilbilty) would be relatively recent and largely overshadowed by what radical Islam has been doing to the world for the last 30 years", and I supplied you with ONE example of American intervention that resulted in "blowback" from 30 years ago. Do you want me to post another example that's even older? You went on to list a whole bunch gobbly goop that's suppose to say what exactly?
All I want is a small admittance that America might have supplied some contributing factors here and there but that the problem itself lies with the radical Islamic movement. Everyone needs to stop trying to qualify everything and nitpick and bitch about the smallest things the US might or might not have done and focus on the actual CAUSE of the problems themselves.
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Ok, in prep of my response, I would like to just get a few facts.
1. Under what circumstances do they cut off hands?
2. What suicide bombers have been connected with Iran's leadership?
3. What government sanctioned rapings of 13 year olds have occured?
ozmo ???
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I do, unfortunately those guys consider it righteous to wipe Israel off the map.
However, it's inevitable that we will see a nuclear Power in Iran
I SAY IT IS RIGHTEOUS TO WIPE EVERY ISRAELI OFF THE MAP...OFF THE PLANET..
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I SAY IT IS RIGHTEOUS TO WIPE EVERY ISRAELI OFF THE MAP...OFF THE PLANET..
Hi moslem,
Was it true that aisha was a cheap whore offering to suck of any man who gave her a lollipop and a childs' doll?
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I SAY IT IS RIGHTEOUS TO WIPE EVERY ISRAELI OFF THE MAP...OFF THE PLANET..
well not every israeli agrees with the policies purpetrated on the palestinians, but the pro Israel lobby in the US is so effective that these voices are muted and jewish groups who are pro peace and 2 state solutions are disbanded because of threats by organisations like Aipac etc and referred to as self hating jews.
Im against generalising people, its already happening here on this board alot with muslims.
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well not every israeli agrees with the policies purpetrated on the palestinians, but the pro Israel lobby in the US is so effective that these voices are muted and jewish groups who are pro peace and 2 state solutions are disbanded because of threats by organisations like Aipac etc and referred to as self hating jews.
Im against generalising people, its already happening here on this board alot with muslims.
If the palestinians are given a state it will be proof that terrorism works and is an ok form of negotiation.
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I SAY IT IS RIGHTEOUS TO WIPE EVERY ISRAELI OFF THE MAP...OFF THE PLANET..
worst gimmick ever..
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well not every israeli agrees with the policies purpetrated on the palestinians, but the pro Israel lobby in the US is so effective that these voices are muted and jewish groups who are pro peace and 2 state solutions are disbanded because of threats by organisations like Aipac etc and referred to as self hating jews.
Im against generalising people, its already happening here on this board alot with muslims.
You generalize daily on here, and it's only after you get called out for the pro-terrorism Muslim haji that you are that you change face and try to back pedal your way out of it, Abdul.
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If the palestinians are given a state it will be proof that terrorism works and is an ok form of negotiation.
the zionist movement also started with terrorism to enforce a state of Israel on the soil the palestinian people so whats your point.
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the zionist movement also started with terrorism to enforce a state of Israel on the soil the palestinian people so whats your point.
Here we go, spewing more bullshit. For all the pro-terrorism bullshit you spew, you sure don't seem to be advocating of it when anyone but Muslims do it.
Why are you so ashamed to admit that you're a haji? I mean, deny it all you want but it's only a matter of time before the Netherlands sends you packing.
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the zionist movement also started with terrorism to enforce a state of Israel on the soil the palestinian people so whats your point.
Show me
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So, Britain along with other world powers giving British soil to the Jews to for a state post-WW2 was an act of terrorism?
Ha ha, epic lack of historical knowledge.
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So, Britain along with other world powers giving British soil to the Jews to for a state post-WW2 was an act of terrorism?
Ha ha, epic lack of historical knowledge.
He speaks like a Muslim. He justifies everything they do by making up fabrications with no factual backing to make it look like he knows what he's talking about.
It's pretty pathetic to say the least, albeit hilariously funny because he sounds like 99% of the terrorists/extremists. No facts, just bullshit.
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Show me
"As former Prime Minister Barak once admitted had he born a palestinian, he "would have joined a terrorist organization" If the situation were reversed and the Israelis were under Arab occupation, they would almost certainly be using simular tactics against their oppressors, just as other resistance movements around the world have done.
Indeed, terrorism was one of the key tactics that the Zionists used when they were in a similarly weak position and trying to obtain their own state. It was Jewish terrorists from the infamous Irgun, a militant Zionist group, who in late 1937 introduced into Palestine the now-familiar practise of placing bombs in buses and large crowds. Benny Morris speculates that "the Arabs may well have learned the value of terrorist bombings from the Jews."
Between 1944 and 1947, several Zionist organizations used terrorist attacks to drive the British from Palestine and took the lives of many innocent civilians along the way.
Israeli terrorists also murdered the UN mediator Count Folke Bernadotte in 1948, because they opposed his proposal to internationalize Jerusalem.
Another terrorist leader, who approved of Bernadotte's murder but was not tried, was future Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir. He openly argued that "neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat." Rather, terrorism had "a great part to play... in our war against the occupier [Britain]."
Source: The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy.
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"As former Prime Minister Barak once admitted had he born a palestinian, he "would have joined a terrorist organization" If the situation were reversed and the Israelis were under Arab occupation, they would almost certainly be using simular tactics against their oppressors, just as other resistance movements around the world have done.
Indeed, terrorism was one of the key tactics that the Zionists used when they were in a similarly weak position and trying to obtain their own state. It was Jewish terrorists from the infamous Irgun, a militant Zionist group, who in late 1937 introduced into Palestine the now-familiar practise of placing bombs in buses and large crowds. Benny Morris speculates that "the Arabs may well have learned the value of terrorist bombings from the Jews."
Between 1944 and 1947, several Zionist organizations used terrorist attacks to drive the British from Palestine and took the lives of many innocent civilians along the way.
Israeli terrorists also murdered the UN mediator Count Folke Bernadotte in 1948, because they opposed his proposal to internationalize Jerusalem.
Another terrorist leader, who approved of Bernadotte's murder but was not tried, was future Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir. He openly argued that "neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat." Rather, terrorism had "a great part to play... in our war against the occupier [Britain]."
Source: The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy.
Benny Morris huh? Noam Chomsky too? Oh brother.. Similarly, assassinating prominent political targets is a tactic employed by both sides. Although in modern times it's pretty obvious which side chooses murder over negotiation. Consistently detonating high explosives in random crowds of women and children however is not a tactic of the Israeli state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_organisations
Every culture has had terrorist organizations.
Unfortunately only one culture has overwhelmingly sponsored terrorism the world over, esp in Israel.
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ozmo ???
Just read the thread since you asked me. It's answering those questions and making the points well.
Iranian government is heavily influenced by radical islamic elements. What makes them dangerous, is that they believe they are righteous in their violence and that is honorable to die for it. Where as people like Saddam were far more like thugs who respoded to to the same influences and control a westerner would.
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Just read the thread since you asked me. It's answering those questions and making the points well.
Iranian government is heavily influenced by radical islamic elements. What makes them dangerous, is that they believe they are righteous in their violence and that is honorable to die for it. Where as people like Saddam were far more like thugs who respoded to to the same influences and control a westerner would.
Saddam responded as a westerner b/c the US wanted him to respond that way. Likewise, Israel does not do a thing with out the US's blessing...even all the illegal land grabs and bombings of surrounding enemies has the US's tacit approval.
How do you think Iraq beat Iran in the Iraq/Iran war? It wasn't b/c Iraq was a great military state. It was b/c Reagan/Bush (the US) was backing Iraq.
As far as being "righteous in their (Iran's) violence and that is honorable to die for it...", I can't think of a nationalistic citizen of any country that doesn't hold that same viewpoint.
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true but Saddam wasnt a religious fanatic, but a modern leader, he didnt wanted the bin laden scum in his country anyway.
He rather dealt with the west than with mullahs.
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Saddam responded as a westerner b/c the US wanted him to respond that way. Likewise, Israel does not do a thing with out the US's blessing...even all the illegal land grabs and bombings of surrounding enemies has the US's tacit approval.
How do you think Iraq beat Iran in the Iraq/Iran war? It wasn't b/c Iraq was a great military state. It was b/c Reagan/Bush (the US) was backing Iraq.
As far as being "righteous in their (Iran's) violence and that is honorable to die for it...", I can't think of a nationalistic citizen of any country that doesn't hold that same viewpoint.
The difference between Iran and Saddam was that Saddam would respond as a westerner because he doesn't want to lose his power or his money. while the Iran government as a whole doesn't want to lose either their religious core doesn't see any of it as worthy of fighting for. To them dying for Allah is honorable. When you are dealing with religous extremists logic is out the window.
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The difference between Iran and Saddam was that Saddam would respond as a westerner because he doesn't want to lose his power or his money. while the Iran government as a whole doesn't want to lose either their religious core doesn't see any of it as worthy of fighting for. To them dying for Allah is honorable. When you are dealing with religous extremists logic is out the window.
I don't think logic is out the window with Iran. I think that's facile. Self-preservation trumps ostensible religious nuttery.
If logic is out the window with religious nuts, then Pakistan and India would be nuclear toast today. Pakistan is like 99% Muslim.
Iran knows that Iraq/Israel are de facto US satellite states. If Iran was to attack Iraq/Israel, that would be suicide. Iran knows that.
The US could not go into Iraq with the stated purpose of conquering the country and stealing its resources.
So we invaded on the pretext of stripping Iraq of WMDs dangerous to the entire region.
Likewise, the US cannot attack Iran. But it can preserve the fragile nascent democracy growing in Iraq and threatened by Iran.
The US is still the not-so-invisible hand in the area.
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I don't think logic is out the window with Iran. I think that's facile. Self-preservation trumps ostensible religious nuttery.
I would think so. But with these guys, it's doubtful IMO.
If logic is out the window with religious nuts, then Pakistan and India would be nuclear toast today. Pakistan is like 99% Muslim.
There some differences here. India isn't considered the great Satan and Pakistan's government isn't influenced by religious extremism on the scale that Iran is.
Iran knows that Iraq/Israel are de facto US satellite states. If Iran was to attack Iraq/Israel, that would be suicide. Iran knows that.
The US could not go into Iraq with the stated purpose of conquering the country and stealing its resources.
So we invaded on the pretext of stripping Iraq of WMDs dangerous to the entire region.
Likewise, the US cannot attack Iran. But it can preserve the fragile nascent democracy growing in Iraq and threatened by Iran.
The US is still the not-so-invisible hand in the area.
That's all good in the context of a conventional attack. What scares me is a nuclear attack from Iran with them figuring to sacrifice themselves in the name of Allah and dealing a blow tot he great Satan.
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I would think so. But with these guys, it's doubtful IMO.
There some differences here. India isn't considered the great Satan and Pakistan's government isn't influenced by religious extremism on the scale that Iran is.
That's all good in the context of a conventional attack. What scares me is a nuclear attack from Iran with them figuring to sacrifice themselves in the name of Allah and dealing a blow tot he great Satan.
Pakistan and India are mortal enemies. Muslims are muslims right? If they can get along....
Iran will not attack anyone associated with the US. Suicide is still suicide.
What makes you think Iran's religious predisposition in government is any nuttier than the US's with its end-times crapola. Is it b/c we wear suits and they wear turbans?
The US/Israel have fomented far much more war in the middle east in the last 30 years than Iran.
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Pakistan and India are mortal enemies. Muslims are muslims right? If they can get along....
Iran will not attack anyone associated with the US. Suicide is still suicide.
What makes you think Iran's religious predisposition in government is any nuttier than the US's with its end-times crapola. Is it b/c we wear suits and they wear turbans?
The US/Israel have fomented far much more war in the middle east in the last 30 years than Iran.
Yeah but, our ends times crapola doesn't have Mary Smith and Joe Johnson becoming suicide bombers.
Additionally, i don't know of any Muslims suicide bombing themselves in India.
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Yeah but, our ends times crapola doesn't have Mary Smith and Joe Johnson becoming suicide bombers.
Additionally, i don't know of any Muslims suicide bombing themselves in India.
They have had non-Muslim suicide bombers though. One of their prime ministers was killed by one.
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Yeah but, our ends times crapola doesn't have Mary Smith and Joe Johnson becoming suicide bombers.
Additionally, i don't know of any Muslims suicide bombing themselves in India.
Suicide bombers are small potatoes compared to nuclear annihilation. And we all know which country is the only one to drop the big one.
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Suicide bombers are small potatoes compared to nuclear annihilation. And we all know which country is the only one to drop the big one.
What does that have to do with anything now? We were in a world war at the time and the action was "arguably" justifiable.
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What does that have to do with anything now? We were in a world war at the time and the action was "arguably" justifiable.
All actions are justifiable if you're the one writing the histories.
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What does that have to do with anything now? We were in a world war at the time and the action was "arguably" justifiable.
You were trying to justify extremism. The US has that action by a country mile.
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Haha exactly, its that they wear nice suits dumb people define them as the good guys.
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Here we go, spewing more bullshit.
Actually BF, He speaks the truth. Ariel Sharon was a known terrorist prior to becoming Israel's head of state.
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What does that have to do with anything now? We were in a world war at the time and the action was "arguably" justifiable.
It has to do with the fact that only the USA has had the stones to use nuclear warheads during a war. That's all.
A country crazy enough to do that is capable of anything, as far as I'm concerned.
But really, any country that fires a nuclear warhead and that country is not China or Russia or the US, it is as good as obliterated.
Israel is the de facto 51st state of the US.
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It has to do with the fact that only the USA has had the stones to use nuclear warheads during a war. That's all.
A country crazy enough to do that is capable of anything, as far as I'm concerned.
But really, any country that fires a nuclear warhead and that country is not China or Russia or the US, it is as good as obliterated.
Israel is the de facto 51st state of the US.
You really do sound like a moron sometimes.
"A country crazy enough to do that is capable of anything, as far as I'm concerned."
You sound like a kid throwing an anti-US temper tantrum by bringing in the fact we dropped a nuclear bomb 60 years ago into the conversation. Keep reaching for reasons to justify your terrible point.
You also show how little you know claiming India and Pakistan get along, what with the fact that they're constantly at each other's throats in Kashmir. But keep acting like a pseudo-intellectual by stating opinions as fact. Does you good! ::)
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You really do sound like a moron sometimes.
You don't. You are always the voice of well reasoned arguments much like the above.
"A country crazy enough to do that is capable of anything, as far as I'm concerned."
You sound like a kid throwing an anti-US temper tantrum by bringing in the fact we dropped a nuclear bomb 60 years ago into the conversation. Keep reaching for reasons to justify your terrible point.
What terrible point is that?
You also show how little you know claiming India and Pakistan get along, what with the fact that they're constantly at each other's throats in Kashmir. But keep acting like a pseudo-intellectual by stating opinions as fact. Does you good! ::)
I truly believe that you see what you want to see.
I don't know what you are talking about again.
If you read the full thread, you will find the quote where I point out that even though Pakistan (96% Muslim and therefore 'crazy' under the prevalent views of some of my peers on this board) is a mortal enemy of India, MAD has worked for these two nuclear powers.
If you would take the time to read what is actually typed, you would save yourself the effort of insulting me and I would be spared having to type a response.
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Decker and Co. you should be lucky it was the US that acquired the German and Jewish scientists that lead to the development of the nuclear bomb.
You like to tar US operations by bringing up this topic, but with Germany, Russia, the Ottoman Empire or Japan had developed this technology first?
Yes that's right, they are true humanists and wouldn't have actually USED the bombs ::)
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I don't think logic is out the window with Iran. I think that's facile. Self-preservation trumps ostensible religious nuttery.
If logic is out the window with religious nuts, then Pakistan and India would be nuclear toast today. Pakistan is like 99% Muslim.
Iran knows that Iraq/Israel are de facto US satellite states. If Iran was to attack Iraq/Israel, that would be suicide. Iran knows that.
The US could not go into Iraq with the stated purpose of conquering the country and stealing its resources.
So we invaded on the pretext of stripping Iraq of WMDs dangerous to the entire region.
Likewise, the US cannot attack Iran. But it can preserve the fragile nascent democracy growing in Iraq and threatened by Iran.
The US is still the not-so-invisible hand in the area.
See Berzerk Fury?
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You don't. You are always the voice of well reasoned arguments much like the above.
What terrible point is that?
I truly believe that you see what you want to see.
I don't know what you are talking about again.
If you read the full thread, you will find the quote where I point out that even though Pakistan (96% Muslim and therefore 'crazy' under the prevalent views of some of my peers on this board) is a mortal enemy of India, MAD has worked for these two nuclear powers.
If you would take the time to read what is actually typed, you would save yourself the effort of insulting me and I would be spared having to type a response.
You claimed India and Pakistan get along. They don't. There were bombings in India just a few months ago by muslim extremists.
Can you provide factual evidence justifying that we are, in-fact, crazy enough to drop nuclear weapons again? Go ahead and do that. Considering we won't even carpet bomb cities anymore and go out of our way to avoid killing civilians, I find it hard to believe that we'll be dropping nuclear weapons anytime soon. But hey, you trying to pass your opinion off as a fact is working well.
You're showing how petty you are by dredging the events of 60+ years ago into talk about today and are only using it as fodder for proving your anti-US point.
So go ahead and show me something beyond your opinion of how you think we're going to be nuking people again. :D
Decker and Co. you should be lucky it was the US that acquired the German and Jewish scientists that lead to the development of the nuclear bomb.
You like to tar US operations by bringing up this topic, but with Germany, Russia, the Ottoman Empire or Japan had developed this technology first?
Yes that's right, they are true humanists and wouldn't have actually USED the bombs ::)
They obviously would have shared the technology and sent us flowers instead. The US = SATAN!!!!!!!!!! ::)
By the way, like it was pointed out above, Pakistan and India's governments aren't influenced by religious fanaticism to the point that Iran's is.
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Decker and Co. you should be lucky it was the US that acquired the German and Jewish scientists that lead to the development of the nuclear bomb.
You like to tar US operations by bringing up this topic, but with Germany, Russia, the Ottoman Empire or Japan had developed this technology first?
Yes that's right, they are true humanists and wouldn't have actually USED the bombs ::)
Einstein wrote the letter to FDR getting the ball rolling on the Manhattan Project. Einstein was a German Jew.
I agree with Einstein. I always have on this point.
I also agree with all of the heads of the armed forces from WWII that dropping the bomb (Not creating it) was a mistake.
Why did Truman (and You) think he knew better than his military chiefs? I don't know either.
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Decker, if India and Pakistan get along, why is it that these once combined nations are now individual nations?
What was the reason behind the revolution?
Einstein wrote the letter to FDR getting the ball rolling on the Manhattan Project. Einstein was a German Jew.
I agree with Einstein. I always have on this point.
I also agree with all of the heads of the armed forces from WWII that dropping the bomb (Not creating it) was a mistake.
Why did Truman (and You) think he knew better than his military chiefs? I don't know either.
ALL the heads? Are you 100% sure it was ALL the heads?
I can Google up some powerful names saying that dropping the bomb helped stabilise the situation and end the war.
In hindsight it's easy to know exactly what to do.
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Decker, if India and Pakistan get along, why is it that these once combined nations are now individual nations?
What was the reason behind the revolution?
ALL the heads? Are you 100% sure it was ALL the heads?
I can Google up some powerful names saying that dropping the bomb helped stabilise the situation and end the war.
In hindsight it's easy to know exactly what to do.
Decker excels at passing opinion off as fact.
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You claimed India and Pakistan get along. They don't. There were bombings in India just a few months ago by muslim extremists.
Have they annihilated each other with their nuclear weapons? No they haven't. End of story. MAD works...is working. They don't have to whisper sweet nothings to each other to avoid mutual suicide.
Can you provide factual evidence justifying that we are, in-fact, crazy enough to drop nuclear weapons again? Go ahead and do that. Considering we won't even carpet bomb cities anymore and go out of our way to avoid killing civilians, I find it hard to believe that we'll be dropping nuclear weapons anytime soon. But hey, you trying to pass your opinion off as a fact is working well.
You are not making sense. Past performance does not guarantee future results. Pointing out the fact that our country is the only one to use nuclear weapons is a harmless fact. We did it two times. And no one else has had the stones to do it again. I was stating that "A country crazy enough to do that is capable of anything, as far as I'm concerned." as a kind of joke--remember, Hussein gassed his own people 20 years ago....! That's why my next sentence started out, "But really, ....." Hey, the USA has got a history.
You're showing how petty you are by dredging the events of 60+ years ago into talk about today and are only using it as fodder for proving your anti-US point.
You forgot the US's lapdog Israel too in that sentence. I think the mass murder caused by the US in Iraq is fucking shame. I think the fact that the US spends more foreign aid on Israel sucks b/c Israel has initiated many illegal attacks and land grabs against the arabs.
By the way, like it was pointed out above, Pakistan and India's governments aren't influenced by religious fanaticism to the point that Iran's is.
How do you know? Pakistan is the second largest Muslim country on the planet. Mortal enemies preserved by MAD. Why is that so difficult to understand.
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Decker, if India and Pakistan get along, why is it that these once combined nations are now individual nations?
What was the reason behind the revolution?
ALL the heads? Are you 100% sure it was ALL the heads?
I can Google up some powerful names saying that dropping the bomb helped stabilise the situation and end the war.
In hindsight it's easy to know exactly what to do.
"LeMay: The war would have been over in two weeks without the Russians entering and without the atomic bomb.
"The Press: You mean that, sir? Without the Russians and the atomic bomb?
"LeMay: Yes, with the B-29…
"The Press: General, why use the atomic bomb? Why did we use it then?
"LeMay: Well, the other people were not convinced…
"The Press: Had they not surrendered because of the atomic bomb?
"LeMay: The atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all."
"It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were almost defeated and ready to surrender...in being the first to use it, we...adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages."
---Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy,
Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during World War II
Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, commander in chief of the Pacific Fleet, quoted by his widow:
". . . I felt that it was an unnecessary loss of civilian life. . . . We had them beaten. They hadn't enough food, they couldn't do anything." And – E. B. Potter, naval historian wrote: "Nimitz considered the atomic bomb somehow indecent, certainly not a legitimate form of warfare."
Rear Admiral Richard Byrd:
"Especially it is good to see the truth told about the last days of the war with Japan. . . . I was with the Fleet during that period; and every officer in the Fleet knew that Japan would eventually capitulate from . . . the tight blockade."
Rear Admiral Lewis L. Strauss, special assistant to the Secretary of the Navy:
"I, too, felt strongly that it was a mistake to drop the atom bombs, especially without warning." [The atomic bomb] "was not necessary to bring the war to a successful conclusion . . . it was clear to a number of people . . . that the war was very nearly over. The Japanese were nearly ready to capitulate . . . it was a sin – to use a good word – [a word that] should be used more often – to kill non-combatants. . . ."
Henry H. "Hap" Arnold, Commanding General of the US Army Air Forces.
". . . [F]rom the Japanese standpoint the atomic bomb was really a way out. The Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell. . . ."
Eisenhower was equally appalled, writing in his 1963 Mandate for Change that when he learned from Stimson at Potsdam that use of the bomb was imminent, “I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of ‘face.’” http://japanfocus.org/products/topdf/2479
There are a lot more quotes just like that from some big guns.
I don't know why Truman discounted their advice.
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Decker excels at passing opinion off as fact.
Ok smart guy, look at the above quotes and tell me, "that's opinion"...
Do take your time.
I'll wait.
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I said I could Google and get people to back my position as an insult.
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Great...but a message had to be sent to the Russians. No message and maybe we end up glowing as a result of the Cuban missle fiasco or even sooner.
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I said I could Google and get people to back my position as an insult.
We'll never know what the opinions were before the bombing b/c the Manhattan Project was top secret.
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Great...but a message had to be sent to the Russians. No message and maybe we end up glowing as a result of the Cuban missle fiasco or even sooner.
MAD worked with the Russians. They backed down.
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Great...but a message had to be sent to the Russians. No message and maybe we end up glowing as a result of the Cuban missle fiasco or even sooner.
It took 2 years, ...but finally HH6 proved my original point made here 2 years ago that the dropping of those bombs was not the end of World War II, ...it was the opening shot of World War III, and an announcement to the entire world "Meet Your New Masters". The bombings of Hiroshima & Nagasaki, had nothing to do with Japan, ...and everything to do with Russia.
Thank you. It took you lomg enough, ...but if you keep them talking long enough ...eventually the truth slips out.
It's time for you to run along and take your punishment from Rupert Murdoch like the good little soldier you are.
tsk., tsk., spilling secrets instead of keeping up with the party lie... run along...
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Great...but a message had to be sent to the Russians. No message and maybe we end up glowing as a result of the Cuban missle fiasco or even sooner.
Oh, so it was the russians who were the initiators of the arms race? ::)