Iran Begins Installing More Centrifuges

[OzmO]

ozmo

Just read the thread since you asked me.  It's answering those questions and making the points well.

Iranian government is heavily influenced by radical islamic elements.   What makes them dangerous, is that they believe they are righteous in their violence and that is honorable to die for it.  Where as people like Saddam were far more like thugs who respoded to to the same influences and control a westerner would.

 

[Decker]

Just read the thread since you asked me.  It's answering those questions and making the points well.

Iranian government is heavily influenced by radical islamic elements.   What makes them dangerous, is that they believe they are righteous in their violence and that is honorable to die for it.  Where as people like Saddam were far more like thugs who respoded to to the same influences and control a westerner would.

 

Saddam responded as a westerner b/c the US wanted him to respond that way.  Likewise, Israel does not do a thing with out the US's blessing...even all the illegal land grabs and bombings of surrounding enemies has the US's tacit approval. 

How do you think Iraq beat Iran in the Iraq/Iran war?  It wasn't b/c Iraq was a great military state.  It was b/c Reagan/Bush (the US) was backing Iraq.

As far as being "righteous in their (Iran's) violence and that is honorable to die for it...", I can't think of a nationalistic citizen of any country that doesn't hold that same viewpoint.

[Mars]

true but Saddam wasnt a religious fanatic, but a modern leader, he didnt wanted the bin laden scum in his country anyway.
He rather dealt with the west than with mullahs.

[OzmO]

Saddam responded as a westerner b/c the US wanted him to respond that way.  Likewise, Israel does not do a thing with out the US's blessing...even all the illegal land grabs and bombings of surrounding enemies has the US's tacit approval. 

How do you think Iraq beat Iran in the Iraq/Iran war?  It wasn't b/c Iraq was a great military state.  It was b/c Reagan/Bush (the US) was backing Iraq.

As far as being "righteous in their (Iran's) violence and that is honorable to die for it...", I can't think of a nationalistic citizen of any country that doesn't hold that same viewpoint.

The difference between Iran and Saddam was that Saddam would respond as a westerner because he doesn't want to lose his power or his money.  while the Iran government as a whole doesn't want to lose either their religious core doesn't see any of it as worthy of fighting for.  To them dying for Allah is honorable.  When you are dealing with religous extremists logic is out the window.

[Decker]

The difference between Iran and Saddam was that Saddam would respond as a westerner because he doesn't want to lose his power or his money.  while the Iran government as a whole doesn't want to lose either their religious core doesn't see any of it as worthy of fighting for.  To them dying for Allah is honorable.  When you are dealing with religous extremists logic is out the window.

I don't think logic is out the window with Iran.  I think that's facile.  Self-preservation trumps ostensible religious nuttery. 

If logic is out the window with religious nuts, then Pakistan and India would be nuclear toast today.  Pakistan is like 99% Muslim.

Iran knows that Iraq/Israel are de facto US satellite states.  If Iran was to attack Iraq/Israel, that would be suicide.  Iran knows that. 

The US could not go into Iraq with the stated purpose of conquering the country and stealing its resources. 

So we invaded on the pretext of stripping Iraq of WMDs dangerous to the entire region.

Likewise, the US cannot attack Iran.  But it can preserve the fragile nascent democracy growing in Iraq and threatened by Iran.

The US is still the not-so-invisible hand in the area.

[OzmO]

I don't think logic is out the window with Iran.  I think that's facile.  Self-preservation trumps ostensible religious nuttery. 

I would think so.  But with these guys, it's doubtful IMO. 

If logic is out the window with religious nuts, then Pakistan and India would be nuclear toast today.  Pakistan is like 99% Muslim.

There some differences here.  India isn't considered the great Satan and Pakistan's government isn't influenced by religious extremism on the scale that Iran is.

Iran knows that Iraq/Israel are de facto US satellite states.  If Iran was to attack Iraq/Israel, that would be suicide.  Iran knows that.

The US could not go into Iraq with the stated purpose of conquering the country and stealing its resources.

So we invaded on the pretext of stripping Iraq of WMDs dangerous to the entire region.

Likewise, the US cannot attack Iran.  But it can preserve the fragile nascent democracy growing in Iraq and threatened by Iran.

The US is still the not-so-invisible hand in the area.

That's all good in the context of a conventional attack.  What scares me is a nuclear attack from Iran with them figuring to sacrifice themselves in the name of Allah and dealing a blow tot he great Satan.

[Decker]

I would think so.  But with these guys, it's doubtful IMO. 

There some differences here.  India isn't considered the great Satan and Pakistan's government isn't influenced by religious extremism on the scale that Iran is.


That's all good in the context of a conventional attack.  What scares me is a nuclear attack from Iran with them figuring to sacrifice themselves in the name of Allah and dealing a blow tot he great Satan.

Pakistan and India are mortal enemies.  Muslims are muslims right?  If they can get along....

Iran will not attack anyone associated with the US.  Suicide is still suicide. 

What makes you think Iran's religious predisposition in government is any nuttier than the US's with its end-times crapola.  Is it b/c we wear suits and they wear turbans?

The US/Israel have fomented far much more war in the middle east in the last 30 years than Iran.

[OzmO]

Pakistan and India are mortal enemies.  Muslims are muslims right?  If they can get along....

Iran will not attack anyone associated with the US.  Suicide is still suicide. 

What makes you think Iran's religious predisposition in government is any nuttier than the US's with its end-times crapola.  Is it b/c we wear suits and they wear turbans?

The US/Israel have fomented far much more war in the middle east in the last 30 years than Iran.

Yeah but, our ends times crapola doesn't have Mary Smith and Joe Johnson becoming suicide bombers.

Additionally, i don't know of any Muslims suicide bombing themselves in India.

[Mars]

[calmus]

Yeah but, our ends times crapola doesn't have Mary Smith and Joe Johnson becoming suicide bombers.

Additionally, i don't know of any Muslims suicide bombing themselves in India.

They have had non-Muslim suicide bombers though. One of their prime ministers was killed by one.

[Decker]

Yeah but, our ends times crapola doesn't have Mary Smith and Joe Johnson becoming suicide bombers.

Additionally, i don't know of any Muslims suicide bombing themselves in India.

Suicide bombers are small potatoes compared to nuclear annihilation.  And we all know which country is the only one to drop the big one.

[OzmO]

Suicide bombers are small potatoes compared to nuclear annihilation.  And we all know which country is the only one to drop the big one.

What does that have to do with anything now?  We were in a world war at the time and the action was "arguably" justifiable.

[calmus]

What does that have to do with anything now?  We were in a world war at the time and the action was "arguably" justifiable.

All actions are  justifiable if you're the one writing the histories.

[War-Horse]

What does that have to do with anything now?  We were in a world war at the time and the action was "arguably" justifiable.

You were trying to justify extremism.  The US has that action by a country mile.

[Mars]

Haha exactly, its that they wear nice suits dumb people define them as the good guys.

[24KT]

Here we go, spewing more bullshit.

Actually BF, He speaks the truth. Ariel Sharon was a known terrorist prior to becoming Israel's head of state.

[Decker]

What does that have to do with anything now?  We were in a world war at the time and the action was "arguably" justifiable.

It has to do with the fact that only the USA has had the stones to use nuclear warheads during a war.  That's all.

A country crazy enough to do that is capable of anything, as far as I'm concerned.

But really, any country that fires a nuclear warhead and that country is not China or Russia or the US, it is as good as obliterated.

Israel is the de facto 51st state of the US.

[Fury]

It has to do with the fact that only the USA has had the stones to use nuclear warheads during a war.  That's all.

A country crazy enough to do that is capable of anything, as far as I'm concerned.

But really, any country that fires a nuclear warhead and that country is not China or Russia or the US, it is as good as obliterated.

Israel is the de facto 51st state of the US.

You really do sound like a moron sometimes.

"A country crazy enough to do that is capable of anything, as far as I'm concerned."

You sound like a kid throwing an anti-US temper tantrum by bringing in the fact we dropped a nuclear bomb 60 years ago into the conversation. Keep reaching for reasons to justify your terrible point.

You also show how little you know claiming India and Pakistan get along, what with the fact that they're constantly at each other's throats in Kashmir. But keep acting like a pseudo-intellectual by stating opinions as fact. Does you good! 

[Decker]

You really do sound like a moron sometimes.

You don't.  You are always the voice of well reasoned arguments much like the above.

"A country crazy enough to do that is capable of anything, as far as I'm concerned."

You sound like a kid throwing an anti-US temper tantrum by bringing in the fact we dropped a nuclear bomb 60 years ago into the conversation. Keep reaching for reasons to justify your terrible point.

What terrible point is that?

You also show how little you know claiming India and Pakistan get along, what with the fact that they're constantly at each other's throats in Kashmir. But keep acting like a pseudo-intellectual by stating opinions as fact. Does you good! 

I truly believe that you see what you want to see. 

I don't know what you are talking about again.

If you read the full thread, you will find the quote where I point out that even though Pakistan (96% Muslim and therefore 'crazy' under the prevalent views of some of my peers on this board) is a mortal enemy of India, MAD has worked for these two nuclear powers.

If you would take the time to read what is actually typed, you would save yourself the effort of insulting me and I would be spared having to type a response.

[Nordic Superman]

Decker and Co. you should be lucky it was the US that acquired the German and Jewish scientists that lead to the development of the nuclear bomb.

You like to tar US operations by bringing up this topic, but with Germany, Russia, the Ottoman Empire or Japan had developed this technology first?

Yes that's right, they are true humanists and wouldn't have actually USED the bombs

[Decker]

I don't think logic is out the window with Iran.  I think that's facile.  Self-preservation trumps ostensible religious nuttery. 

If logic is out the window with religious nuts, then Pakistan and India would be nuclear toast today.  Pakistan is like 99% Muslim.

Iran knows that Iraq/Israel are de facto US satellite states.  If Iran was to attack Iraq/Israel, that would be suicide.  Iran knows that. 

The US could not go into Iraq with the stated purpose of conquering the country and stealing its resources. 

So we invaded on the pretext of stripping Iraq of WMDs dangerous to the entire region.

Likewise, the US cannot attack Iran.  But it can preserve the fragile nascent democracy growing in Iraq and threatened by Iran.

The US is still the not-so-invisible hand in the area.

See Berzerk Fury?

[Fury]

You don't.  You are always the voice of well reasoned arguments much like the above.

What terrible point is that?
I truly believe that you see what you want to see. 

I don't know what you are talking about again.

If you read the full thread, you will find the quote where I point out that even though Pakistan (96% Muslim and therefore 'crazy' under the prevalent views of some of my peers on this board) is a mortal enemy of India, MAD has worked for these two nuclear powers.

If you would take the time to read what is actually typed, you would save yourself the effort of insulting me and I would be spared having to type a response.

You claimed India and Pakistan get along. They don't. There were bombings in India just a few months ago by muslim extremists.

Can you provide factual evidence justifying that we are, in-fact, crazy enough to drop nuclear weapons again? Go ahead and do that. Considering we won't even carpet bomb cities anymore and go out of our way to avoid killing civilians, I find it hard to believe that we'll be dropping nuclear weapons anytime soon. But hey, you trying to pass your opinion off as a fact is working well.

You're showing how petty you are by dredging the events of 60+ years ago into talk about today and are only using it as fodder for proving your anti-US point.

So go ahead and show me something beyond your opinion of how you think we're going to be nuking people again. 

Decker and Co. you should be lucky it was the US that acquired the German and Jewish scientists that lead to the development of the nuclear bomb.

You like to tar US operations by bringing up this topic, but with Germany, Russia, the Ottoman Empire or Japan had developed this technology first?

Yes that's right, they are true humanists and wouldn't have actually USED the bombs

They obviously would have shared the technology and sent us flowers instead. The US = SATAN!!!!!!!!!!



By the way, like it was pointed out above, Pakistan and India's governments aren't influenced by religious fanaticism to the point that Iran's is.

[Decker]

Decker and Co. you should be lucky it was the US that acquired the German and Jewish scientists that lead to the development of the nuclear bomb.

You like to tar US operations by bringing up this topic, but with Germany, Russia, the Ottoman Empire or Japan had developed this technology first?

Yes that's right, they are true humanists and wouldn't have actually USED the bombs

Einstein wrote the letter to FDR getting the ball rolling on the Manhattan Project.  Einstein was a German Jew.

I agree with Einstein.  I always have on this point.

I also agree with all of the heads of the armed forces from WWII that dropping the bomb (Not creating it) was a mistake.

Why did Truman (and You) think he knew better than his military chiefs?  I don't know either.

[Nordic Superman]

Decker, if India and Pakistan get along, why is it that these once combined nations are now individual nations?

What was the reason behind the revolution?

Einstein wrote the letter to FDR getting the ball rolling on the Manhattan Project.  Einstein was a German Jew.

I agree with Einstein.  I always have on this point.

I also agree with all of the heads of the armed forces from WWII that dropping the bomb (Not creating it) was a mistake.

Why did Truman (and You) think he knew better than his military chiefs?  I don't know either.

ALL the heads? Are you 100% sure it was ALL the heads?

I can Google up some powerful names saying that dropping the bomb helped stabilise the situation and end the war.

In hindsight it's easy to know exactly what to do.

[Fury]

Decker, if India and Pakistan get along, why is it that these once combined nations are now individual nations?

What was the reason behind the revolution?

ALL the heads? Are you 100% sure it was ALL the heads?

I can Google up some powerful names saying that dropping the bomb helped stabilise the situation and end the war.

In hindsight it's easy to know exactly what to do.

Decker excels at passing opinion off as fact.