Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: 240 is Back on May 04, 2008, 06:46:17 PM
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After being stuck at the same bodyweight for the last 18 months, I finally managed to gain some weight. In the last week, this is what I've changed:
I got a rice cooker and have been eating 2-3 cups of rice daily in addition to regular diet.
I stopped all caffeine and sinus products. Went from 200 mg per day caff to zero.
I know it's a small victory among the giants here, but I had to tell someone. I've been stuck at 170-174 for the last 18 months. Seeing the scale jump to 180- and seeing the abs stay the same - is just awesome. Anyone else have common fixes for breaking the "can't gain weight despite everything I do" trap?
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Good job ,Rob ,consistency is the key
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After being stuck at the same bodyweight for the last 18 months, I finally managed to gain some weight. In the last week, this is what I've changed:
I got a rice cooker and have been eating 2-3 cups of rice daily in addition to regular diet.
I stopped all caffeine and sinus products. Went from 200 mg per day caff to zero.
I know it's a small victory among the giants here, but I had to tell someone. I've been stuck at 170-174 for the last 18 months. Seeing the scale jump to 180- and seeing the abs stay the same - is just awesome. Anyone else have common fixes for breaking the "can't gain weight despite everything I do" trap?
Today I ate 3 large icecream cones, a large MMs package, a couple of white castles, drank liquor like a fish, I am sure that I missed some other stuff...and yes some diet cokes
I can gain 6lbs in no time..mostly fat ofcourse :)
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Only 60 lbs away from 240!
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That's not really a good thing. You're holding more water and glycogen, adding 150g carbs to your diet.
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I've been stuck at 170-174 for the last 18 months.
you're a beast :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D
I stopped all caffeine and sinus products. Went from 200 mg per day caff to zero.
i drink at least 12 cups of coffee plus a couple of regular cokes a day and went from 175 to 220 in three years, hard to tell if i could have gained more had i eliminated caffeine completely. perhaps you should start busting your ass in the gym ??? ??? ??? ;D ;D ;D
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I just lost 6 pounds!
Man that was a big shit.
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Try some Hydroxy Cut seems to work better than Drugs.
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That's not really a good thing. You're holding more water and glycogen, adding 150g carbs to your diet.
Bast with some useful info...........WTF :o
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Today I ate 3 large icecream cones, a large MMs package, a couple of white castles, drank liquor like a fish, I am sure that I missed some other stuff...and yes some diet cokes
I can gain 6lbs in no time..mostly fat ofcourse :)
I have tried that before during the last 18 months - eating a ton of junk - and still didn't gain weight. I just looked bloated and got scrawny. This week I just ate like normal - the clean Layne diet (high carbs, med protein and fat) and added rice, lost the caffeine.
i drink at least 12 cups of coffee plus a couple of regular cokes a day and went from 175 to 220 in three years, hard to tell if i could have gained more had i eliminated caffeine completely.
Troponin's book talked about how caffeine can hold you back from making gains - he made the best gains of his life when he didn't use any. I know caffeine dehydrates you, causes thermogenic effect, and decreases appetite. Without it, I'm hungrier and I'm gaining clean weight.
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Troponin's book talked about how caffeine can hold you back from making gains - he made the best gains of his life when he didn't use any. I know caffeine dehydrates you, causes thermogenic effect, and decreases appetite. Without it, I'm hungrier and I'm gaining clean weight.
hmmm, something to consider if i want to increase my weight even further....
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After being stuck at the same bodyweight for the last 18 months, I finally managed to gain some weight. In the last week, this is what I've changed:
I got a rice cooker and have been eating 2-3 cups of rice daily in addition to regular diet.
I stopped all caffeine and sinus products. Went from 200 mg per day caff to zero.
I know it's a small victory among the giants here, but I had to tell someone. I've been stuck at 170-174 for the last 18 months. Seeing the scale jump to 180- and seeing the abs stay the same - is just awesome. Anyone else have common fixes for breaking the "can't gain weight despite everything I do" trap?
Nothing a good shit and a long piss won't take care of.
The Beef
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hmmm, something to consider if i want to increase my weight even further....
how old were you when you gained the 45 pounds?
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240 is in a bulking phase now.
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I have tried that before during the last 18 months - eating a ton of junk - and still didn't gain weight. I just looked bloated and got scrawny. This week I just ate like normal - the clean Layne diet (high carbs, med protein and fat) and added rice, lost the caffeine.
Troponin's book talked about how caffeine can hold you back from making gains - he made the best gains of his life when he didn't use any. I know caffeine dehydrates you, causes thermogenic effect, and decreases appetite. Without it, I'm hungrier and I'm gaining clean weight.
Rob .................you quote Justin's book like it's the "Bible",everyone/everybody is different(find what works for you!)
don't be afraid of hard work/hard dieting (that's the only "REAL" secret),try a basic high protein,medium carb/low fat diet,throw in 30-45 Min's cardio min of 3-4 times a week
heavy basic weight training using heavy BASIC exercises
and use as much caffeine as u fucking want lol!
you been "dicking around" for years ................reading too much and not lifting/dieting enough
stop looking for "secrets"...it's plain ole hard work my friend!
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240 is in a bulking phase now.
Nah, but I am trying to slowly gain weight again. I want to add 20 pounds over the next year. This week was probably the response to caffeine and all the new rice.
Rob .................you quote Justin's book like it's the "Bible",everyone/everybody is different(find what works for you!)
don't be afraid of hard work/hard dieting (that's the only "REAL" secret),try a basic high protein,medium carb/low fat diet,throw in 30-45 Min's cardio min of 3-4 times a week
heavy basic weight training using heavy BASIC exercises
and use as much caffeine as u fucking want lol!
you been "dicking around" for years ................reading too much and not lifting/dieting enough
stop looking for "secrets"...it's plain ole hard work my friend!
Caffeine dehydrates, it curbs appetite, and it creates the thermo effect. In a person trying to gain, it sure cannot help.
Mike, there are 'secrets', or rather, things that work and things that don't. You cannot say that all things equal, a person who takes 2000 mg of caffeine a day will make the same gains as a person who takes in 0 mg... ARE YOU?
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Nah, but I am trying to slowly gain weight again. I want to add 20 pounds over the next year. This week was probably the response to caffeine and all the new rice.
Caffeine dehydrates, it curbs appetite, and it creates the thermo effect. In a person trying to gain, it sure cannot help.
Mike, there are 'secrets', or rather, things that work and things that don't. You cannot say that all things equal, a person who takes 2000 mg of caffeine a day will make the same gains as a person who takes in 0 mg... ARE YOU?
All drugs.
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how old were you when you gained the 45 pounds?
28-31
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28-31
that's impressive. If natural, it would definitely counter the gh15 statement this week, that as you hit 30, making natty gains are damn near impossible.
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that's impressive.
how do you know? he could have gained a lot of fat weight.
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Rob .................you quote Justin's book like it's the "Bible",everyone/everybody is different(find what works for you!)
don't be afraid of hard work/hard dieting (that's the only "REAL" secret),try a basic high protein,medium carb/low fat diet,throw in 30-45 Min's cardio min of 3-4 times a week
heavy basic weight training using heavy BASIC exercises
and use as much caffeine as u fucking want lol!
you been "dicking around" for years ................reading too much and not lifting/dieting enough
stop looking for "secrets"...it's plain ole hard work my friend!
when are you gonna take your own advice buddy ?
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that's impressive. If natural, it would definitely counter the gh15 statement this week, that as you hit 30, making natty gains are damn near impossible.
all natural, never touched anything
how do you know? he could have gained a lot of fat weight.
some fat, some muscle, waist went from 32" to 36" but so did other body parts
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what waist size, arm size, etc are you shooting for after your 20lbs gain, 240?
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what waist size, arm size, etc are you shooting for after your 20lbs gain, 240?
I'm 29.5 inches today on my waist.
5 foot 10. 179.8 pounds.
I have lots of pics on here - my clavicles are close together, my hips are small. I was 120 pounds at age 25. I'm a narrow guy. My upper body is very small compared to my lower.
I'd be very happy with 17 or 17.5 inch arms, 200 pounds, and a 33 to 34 inch waist. 20 more pounds clean over the next year.
Tonight I'm eating a banana, chicken fajita (shell, chicken, and lettuce dry) while everyone else is eating Fried ice cream.
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I'm 29.5 inches today on my waist.
5 foot 10. 179.8 pounds.
I have lots of pics on here - my clavicles are close together, my hips are small. I was 120 pounds at age 25. I'm a narrow guy. My upper body is very small compared to my lower.
I'd be very happy with 17 or 17.5 inch arms, 200 pounds, and a 33 to 34 inch waist. 20 more pounds clean over the next year.
Tonight I'm eating a banana, chicken fajita (shell, chicken, and lettuce dry) while everyone else is eating Fried ice cream.
cool, 240.. stay dedicated youll make good progress bro. dedication is key
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After being stuck at the same bodyweight for the last 18 months, I finally managed to gain some weight. In the last week, this is what I've changed:
I got a rice cooker and have been eating 2-3 cups of rice daily in addition to regular diet.
I stopped all caffeine and sinus products. Went from 200 mg per day caff to zero.
I know it's a small victory among the giants here, but I had to tell someone. I've been stuck at 170-174 for the last 18 months. Seeing the scale jump to 180- and seeing the abs stay the same - is just awesome. Anyone else have common fixes for breaking the "can't gain weight despite everything I do" trap?
why dont you get skin calipers and see reality, you gained a few lbs of fat and water!
why dont you get skin calipers and see reality, you gained a few lbs of fat and water!
you did not all of a sudden at your age gain even a half of lb of muscle in 1 week drug free, let alone 6 lbs ;)
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I'm 29.5 inches today on my waist.
5 foot 10. 179.8 pounds.
I have lots of pics on here - my clavicles are close together, my hips are small. I was 120 pounds at age 25. I'm a narrow guy. My upper body is very small compared to my lower.
I'd be very happy with 17 or 17.5 inch arms, 200 pounds, and a 33 to 34 inch waist. 20 more pounds clean over the next year.
Tonight I'm eating a banana, chicken fajita (shell, chicken, and lettuce dry) while everyone else is eating Fried ice cream.
without drug you wont gain more then 2 lbs, get realistic. your pushing 30!
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without drug you wont gain more then 2 lbs, get realistic. your pushing 30!
You gotta be kidding me.
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it's funny how so many natural guys claim major gains but don't post pictures. why? because most of the weight they gained is fat, and that's not impressive.
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I would think some of it was water, fat, glycogen - but some may have been previously held levels as well. I was 223 pounds at my heaviest, and I had a lot more muscle than I do today (lots more fat too!!)
Arms and legs are growing, waistline is not. I'm happy. obviously i won't gain 6 pounds this week!
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I find it very weird that so many guys on here seem to think the only way to gain a measly 5 pounds of muscle takes drugs.
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I find it very weird that so many guys on here seem to think the only way to gain a measly 5 pounds of muscle takes drugs.
we are discussing a male thats pushing 30 with probally a total test level in the 400's, not a 20 yr old with and 800 plus level ...
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I find it very weird that so many guys on here seem to think the only way to gain a measly 5 pounds of muscle takes drugs.
that's because you live in your own little world. Otherwise you'd notice that there are a lot of natural guys who don't gain pounds of muscle with ease.
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that's because you live in your own little world. Otherwise you'd notice that there are a lot of natural guys who don't gain pounds of muscle with ease.
You guys are nuts. It's not that hard to add 2 lbs of muscle to a 5'10, 170 lb physique like 240's.
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You guys are nuts. It's not that hard to add 2 lbs of muscle to a 5'10, 170 lb physique like 240's.
In what time frame are you talking about?
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You guys are nuts. It's not that hard to add 2 lbs of muscle to a 5'10, 170 lb physique like 240's.
it's true - I haven't trained or eaten or rested - all 3 at the same time corectly - ever. I'm a very solid 180 while doing it half-assed. 2 months of doing all 3 right, I should make some gains.
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In what time frame are you talking about?
For him. 3-4 weeks.
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For him. 3-4 weeks.
but no natural can get 2lbs muscle every month. that's 24lbs of muscle in a year. There are limitations like slayer said.
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that's impressive. If natural, it would definitely counter the gh15 statement this week, that as you hit 30, making natty gains are damn near impossible.
I respect GH15 as much as one can respect anything on an inherently bullshit-filled board, but that's just dead wrong.
At 30 years old i weighed 220 lbs. from 35-40 I was as much as 253 lbs (my heaviest) in 03 and that was my biggest strongest and the best I've ever looked.
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but no natural can get 2lbs muscle every month. that's 24lbs of muscle in a year. There are limitations like slayer said.
I'm not saying that he can add 2 lbs of muscle every month till the end of time. Not even juicers can do that.
I am just saying someone over 30 can add substantial muscle, a la Groink, if they really work at it.
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you are mostlikly like most people and dont put on size quick so a off season is a must, do a high cal 8 week program good cals bad cals just eat up tons of stuff youll put on a good 25lbs then you diet and you will be left with a good 10-12lbs the first time you do this
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without drug you wont gain more then 2 lbs, get realistic. your pushing 30!
Are you a pro to be giving this kind of advice, because in all honesty, your OPINION is so full of shit. I am 30 and have gained quite a bit of size at my age. Where the fuck do you get 2 POUNDS from?
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Up another pound this morning, lean as ever. very strong on back day (well, for me), did 315 for 10 reps on the deadlift. I usually don't go near 300.
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After being stuck at the same bodyweight for the last 18 months, I finally managed to gain some weight. In the last week, this is what I've changed:
I got a rice cooker and have been eating 2-3 cups of rice daily in addition to regular diet.
I stopped all caffeine and sinus products. Went from 200 mg per day caff to zero.
I know it's a small victory among the giants here, but I had to tell someone. I've been stuck at 170-174 for the last 18 months. Seeing the scale jump to 180- and seeing the abs stay the same - is just awesome. Anyone else have common fixes for breaking the "can't gain weight despite everything I do" trap?
Good work, Rob. And despite what gh says, you can gain size/muscle at your (advanced) age. The key is to hammer the legs once a week. And by hammer, I mean wiping down after each set and leaving the gym with the wobblies. Keep it up. :)
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Well, I gained(got back) 11lbs(77kg to 82kg) muscle in this week.
If you dont believe it. I will post my pic tomorrow.
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So you went up to 223 previously and had almost no new muscle to show for the bulking when you dieted down, why haven't you learned your lesson. Bulking is not an effective way for naturals to gain muscle. Eating a ton will just make you fat.
Of the 7 lbs you have gained in the last week, how much do you think is muscle?
Listen to Bast he really is trying to help you.
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So you went up to 223 previously and had almost no new muscle to show for the bulking when you dieted down, why haven't you learned your lesson. Bulking is not an effective way for naturals to gain muscle. Eating a ton will just make you fat.
Of the 7 lbs you have gained in the last week, how much do you think is muscle?
Listen to Bast he really is trying to help you.
I think most of my gains were water or the previously dehydrated state being fixed. I'm not going to be bulking up 50 pounds again. I'm measuing the waistline every day, watching it like a hawk, and eating no junk this time. Even when I eat fast food, it's a clean double chicken sub with lettuce and no cheese on wheat bread, from subway.
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So you went up to 223 previously and had almost no new muscle to show for the bulking when you dieted down, why haven't you learned your lesson. Bulking is not an effective way for naturals to gain muscle. Eating a ton will just make you fat.
Of the 7 lbs you have gained in the last week, how much do you think is muscle?
Listen to Bast he really is trying to help you.
I am doing tons of cardio. I eat bit more carbs. But I change one thing very drasticaly.. amount of protein intake.
Almost double. So I am not fat at all. Now I am watching out my condition everyday for the autamn show.
Now its the time for getting back my muscle lost in these 6 months with keeping on staying lean. Cardio is the key.
Thats why i said i could post my pic.
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Since you value Justin's opinion so much just hire him!
http://www.troponinnutrition.com/
He's very reasonable with his rates/and you can work something out for a few months (just to get you headed in the right direction)
hell Pm me ur address and ill send u his DVDS...if money is an issue (there is one that focuses just on Nutrition)
you been on here for years now Rob (asking advice and not really making any progress/changes)
hell i think Justin would do you a world of good!
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you been on here for years now Rob (asking advice and not really making any progress/changes)
I've read a ton of trops' stuff and followed his clips too - very smart guy.
I've been here 6 years. I think I've progressed in that time. Sure I took the rough route, but in the six years below, I went from 125 to 180 pounds:
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EliteFTS.com - Starting a Diet
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troponin
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After being stuck at the same bodyweight for the last 18 months, I finally managed to gain some weight. In the last week, this is what I've changed:
I got a rice cooker and have been eating 2-3 cups of rice daily in addition to regular diet.
I stopped all caffeine and sinus products. Went from 200 mg per day caff to zero.
I know it's a small victory among the giants here, but I had to tell someone. I've been stuck at 170-174 for the last 18 months. Seeing the scale jump to 180- and seeing the abs stay the same - is just awesome. Anyone else have common fixes for breaking the "can't gain weight despite everything I do" trap?
Don't lie to urself.......no one gains 6 lbs in 1 week and doesn't gain anything on there waist.....
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I've read a ton of trops' stuff and followed his clips too - very smart guy.
I've been here 6 years. I think I've progressed in that time. Sure I took the rough route, but in the six years below, I went from 125 to 180 pounds:
Rob i remember when u started posting here (you were not 125 lbs)
the first pictures u ever posted ( i have them somewhere) you were around the 180 lbs you sport now,all you did in the last six years was get a little fat then lose the weight(I'm not bashing on you.....i just think your a lil lazy and u procrastinate,in the begining you posted your pictures every other week (desperate for "gains") then it seems you "gave up" and focused on ur website business (seemingly too discouraged with ur lack of gains to continue)
you also went thru ur "owning phase" where u concentrated on "Pwning" everybody and everything online,now after 6 years of jerking off online it's time to get serious and DO SOMETHING ........give Justin a try for a couple months (best money ull ever spend i bet)
your the type of person who needs someone to give u that kick in the ass!
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Don't lie to urself.......no one gains 6 lbs in 1 week and doesn't gain anything on there waist.....
waistline 29 to 29.5 in the last 8 days. remember i'm narrow. honestly, i had more veins coming out of arms this morning during back day, than I've ever had. I've been so dehydrated for so long. caffeine... ugh.
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damn, that's rude mike. i didn't expect you to resort to insults like that in the course of a debate.
"mr jackass award"?
dude, i've been nothing but civil to you and even stuck up for you a lot with the great showing you made when you competed. we disagree on gains, and you call me a jackass?
have a nice day.
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waistline 29 to 29.5 in the last 8 days. remember i'm narrow. honestly, i had more veins coming out of arms this morning during back day, than I've ever had. I've been so dehydrated for so long. caffeine... ugh.
quitting caffeine is good, excessive caloric intake (i.e. more than a littel bit over manitenance) due to overconsumption of any macronutrient is bad. For a natural (especially with your genetics and at your age) it will just lead to fat gain.
There's no way around this.
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waistline 29 to 29.5 in the last 8 days. remember i'm narrow. honestly, i had more veins coming out of arms this morning during back day, than I've ever had. I've been so dehydrated for so long. caffeine... ugh.
Cool I cut my coffee down to 1 a day. Don't get too fat for the summer lol
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damn, that's rude mike. i didn't expect you to resort to insults like that in the course of a debate.
"mr jackass award"?
dude, i've been nothing but civil to you and even stuck up for you a lot with the great showing you made when you competed. we disagree on gains, and you call me a jackass?
have a nice day.
Im not calling you anything! (i did not make that picture and you know that)
Laura made a folder with all ur pictures in it back in the day when you turned ur "Pwning skills" on us
i simply posted it to show you how u looked then is not much different from how u look now
(again i like you and am trying to help)
maybe you need to see these pictures for a cold slap of reality
im making sure to not post the "insulting" pictures of you like ur "naked most muscular"
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awesome gains Rob, keep up the great work
8)
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maybe you need to see these pictures for a cold slap of reality
Well, we are two grown men. If you feel the need to give me a 'cold slap of reality' because I was fat 3 years ago, that's your call.
When I gained last time, it was on fast food and mountain dew. and one buffet per day. Drinking all the time.
I did zero cardio for 2 years. I trained heavy and low rep for 45 min per day, 4 times a week.
it's completely different this time. I'm doing cardio 4 times a week and eating very clean. I'm training 75 minutes, 5 times a week. Sleeping right, living clean, zero alcohol. I'm growing and I'm staying lean, and I'm natural, of course.
We might disagree on topics, but posting old fat pics of me? You're a grown man giving another man a "cold shot of reality" because he is discussing the benefits of losing caffeine/adding rice with others? Wow...
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If i can do this (with Shit Genetics)
why can't you do something similar?
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a326/arvilla/shredded.jpg)
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get serious and DO SOMETHING ........give Justin a try for a couple months (best money ull ever spend i bet)
your the type of person who needs someone to give u that kick in the ass!
He may need motivation but I doubt that a Near pro level juiced BBer will have much advice that is applicable to a life-time natural ecto-endo.
Rob you will never be big and cut unless you juice. Your best chance of looking good without roids is focusing on your training and reducing your calories to lose the fat that is covering your muscles. If you want a V-taper you will have to focus more on overhead pushing and pulling and learn how to spread your lats.
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Well, we are two grown men. If you feel the need to give me a 'cold slap of reality' because I was fat 3 years ago, that's your call.
When I gained last time, it was on fast food and mountain dew. and one buffet per day. Drinking all the time.
I did zero cardio for 2 years. I trained heavy and low rep for 45 min per day, 4 times a week.
it's completely different this time. I'm doing cardio 4 times a week and eating very clean. I'm training 75 minutes, 5 times a week. Sleeping right, living clean, zero alcohol. I'm growing and I'm staying lean, and I'm natural, of course.
We might disagree on topics, but posting old fat pics of me? You're a grown man giving another man a "cold shot of reality" because he is discussing the benefits of losing caffeine/adding rice with others? Wow...
n/m then.................... .......sorry i bothered
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If i can do this (with Shit Genetics)
why can't you do something similar?
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a326/arvilla/shredded.jpg)
I never said anything about your genetics.
I applaud your achievements.
I don't think I will ever compete.
There are risks that come with it which I choose not to do.
I don't understand the animosity. We disagree about caffeine intake - I think 400 mg per day slows gains. You disagree. We disagree about bulking- I feel staying under 15% is way better than going over 25%.
I'd prefer we debate facts, numbers, and what works and what doesn't posting old pics to 'give me a cold shot of reality' when I admit getting fat was wrong, and when I am doing something entirely different now, it doesn't make sense to me.
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Im not calling you anything! (i did not make that picture and you know that)
Laura made a folder with all ur pictures in it back in the day when you turned ur "Pwning skills" on us
i simply posted it to show you how u looked then is not much different from how u look now
(again i like you and am trying to help)
maybe you need to see these pictures for a cold slap of reality
im making sure to not post the "insulting" pictures of you like ur "naked most muscular"
how sad is that?
seriously...
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If i can do this (with Shit Genetics)
why can't you do something similar?
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a326/arvilla/shredded.jpg)
Yep Mike sets a good example for what is possible for a natural with ecto-endo genetics. Impressive that he never was tempted by the dark side even though he is a fan of the mass monsters.
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Yep Mike sets a good example for what is possible for a natural with ecto-endo genetics. Impressive that he never was tempted by the dark side even though he is a fan of the mass monsters.
JOKE ! ;D
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Rob you will never be big and cut unless you juice. Your best chance of looking good without roids is focusing on your training and reducing your calories to lose the fat that is covering your muscles. If you want a V-taper you will have to focus more on overhead pushing and pulling and learn how to spread your lats.
I'd like to be 200 pounds and cut. I think I can do it. I'm 180 and pretty cut at the moment. Adding 20 pounds (13 muscle/7 fat) over the next year would be a great accomplishment for me.
I don't want to be 150 pounds and look ripped. I want to be 200 pounds with a decent waistline. I never plan to compete. I just want to add some meat without getting chubby.
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I'd like to be 200 pounds and cut. I think I can do it. I'm 180 and pretty cut at the moment. Adding 20 pounds (13 muscle/7 fat) over the next year would be a great accomplishment for me.
I don't want to be 150 pounds and look ripped. I want to be 200 pounds with a decent waistline. I never plan to compete. I just want to add some meat without getting chubby.
Are you test and tren 240? I sure hope so bro.
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I'd like to be 200 pounds and cut. I think I can do it. I'm 180 and pretty cut at the moment. Adding 20 pounds (13 muscle/7 fat) over the next year would be a great accomplishment for me.
I don't want to be 150 pounds and look ripped. I want to be 200 pounds with a decent waistline. I never plan to compete. I just want to add some meat without getting chubby.
YOU COULD NOT GAIN 13 lbs of muscle even on HRT. Natural you will be lucky to gain 2 lbs even with all of that bulking, I think .5 lbs of muscle would be more likely.
You already look chubby by BBing standards. Why are you fixated on size? Don't you realize that muscularity is an illusion created by leanness. Zane competed at 180 and wasn't that much shorter than you. You are already too heavy.
Also I don't mean any of this as an insult (I harbored similar dillusions myself when I was at 185). I like you a lot and always enjoy your humor and enthusiasm for the "sport."
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I never said anything about your genetics.
I applaud your achievements.
I don't think I will ever compete.
There are risks that come with it which I choose not to do.
I don't understand the animosity. We disagree about caffeine intake - I think 400 mg per day slows gains. You disagree. We disagree about bulking- I feel staying under 15% is way better than going over 25%.
I'd prefer we debate facts, numbers, and what works and what doesn't posting old pics to 'give me a cold shot of reality' when I admit getting fat was wrong, and when I am doing something entirely different now, it doesn't make sense to me.
this is what he does now, thinking that nobody will catch on.
i'm glad you are not naive to see that this was his way of slapping you in the face, under the guise of wanting to 'help' you.
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I'd like to be 200 pounds and cut. I think I can do it. I'm 180 and pretty cut at the moment. Adding 20 pounds (13 muscle/7 fat) over the next year would be a great accomplishment for me.
Can one of the Steroid experts weigh in here and let us know what kind of stack Rob would have to do to make these type of gains?
Thanks,
sS
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13 pounds of muscle in a year would only be .25 pounds of muscle per week.
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After being stuck at the same bodyweight for the last 18 months, I finally managed to gain some weight. In the last week, this is what I've changed:
I got a rice cooker and have been eating 2-3 cups of rice daily in addition to regular diet.
I stopped all caffeine and sinus products. Went from 200 mg per day caff to zero.
I know it's a small victory among the giants here, but I had to tell someone. I've been stuck at 170-174 for the last 18 months. Seeing the scale jump to 180- and seeing the abs stay the same - is just awesome. Anyone else have common fixes for breaking the "can't gain weight despite everything I do" trap?
With the right combination, I could easly put on 10-12.
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Can one of the Steroid experts weigh in here and let us know what kind of stack Rob would have to do to make these type of gains?
Thanks,
sS
first, you have to be realistic about your goals.
given the last pics he posted at age 31, you are anywhere from 12 to 15% bf at 175 pounds. we'll use the number of 15% for this example to make things easier.
to be at 10% his true bodyweight would be 10 pounds less than where he is right now, leaving him at around 165ish @10%, which is a decent level of bodyfat and prolly you'd be happy with that.
that leaves you gaining 35 pounds of lean over the next year, very ambitious no matter what kind of course you run.
that being said, this isn't going to happen, so take it slow and easy- you could get by on anywhere from 500mg- 750 mg of test, and 400mg deca a week. you won't need agents like winstrol or fina etc at first. these will come into play as you near the end of your goal. stick to the basics for what you are looking for.
most guys, even on will tell you to gain that kind of muscle in 2-3 years would be well done, without the addition of gh and insulin.
my advise is to just take things slow. it's cool to set goals. but set them too high and you may only serve to frustrate yourself.
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240, youre a fatass.
HTH
:D
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YOU COULD NOT GAIN 13 lbs of muscle even on HRT. Natural you will be lucky to gain 2 lbs even with all of that bulking, I think .5 lbs of muscle would be more likely.
You already look chubby by BBing standards. Why are you fixated on size? Don't you realize that muscularity is an illusion created by leanness. Zane competed at 180 and wasn't that much shorter than you. You are already too heavy.
Also I don't mean any of this as an insult (I harbored similar dillusions myself when I was at 185). I like you a lot and always enjoy your humor and enthusiasm for the "sport."
I dont think hes as dumb as he's making himself out to be here.I think he does this shit for attention and in some ways gets off on looking retarded and having us respond ;)
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Can one of the Steroid experts weigh in here and let us know what kind of stack Rob would have to do to make these type of gains?
Thanks,
sS
that depends if 240 is a "phil heath" or if 240 is a "mike arvilla/billy gunz"
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I dont think hes as dumb as he's making himself out to be here.I think he does this shit for attention and in some ways gets off on looking retarded and having us respond ;)
Well I always enjoy replaying this debate even though I never succeed in convincing any perma-bulkers that they are deluded. People have to see the difference for themselves. Even TA refused to believe me that he had a ton of weight to lose until he actually tried dieting.
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Can one of the Steroid experts weigh in here and let us know what kind of stack Rob would have to do to make these type of gains?
Thanks,
sS
that depends if 240 is a "phil heath" or if 240 is a "mike arvilla/billy gunz"
Well he's no phil heath, but why drag Arvilla and gunz into this they are obviously both natural.
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that depends if 240 is a "phil heath" or if 240 is a "mike arvilla/billy gunz"
Well he's no phil heath, but why drag Arvilla and gunz into this they are obviously both natural.
;D ;D
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=213488.0;attach=249991;image)
Judging by this picture, I would have a hard time believing your waist is 29 inches. Do you realize how small that is? Judging by this picture, if you got rid of that lower stomach fat / lower back fat you would have a waist that was about 27 inches. Thats just not accurate IMO. You don't have good genetics ( not saying this to insult you) so eating to much food will lead to fat for you, period. However, you don't have bad genetics (see Mower), so you can make some legit gains if you work. You should focus on getting in shape, eating enough calories to grow, but not so much that you get fat. For your body type, its a long marathon - not a sprint. You are about 8 - 10 years of solid training /diet away from 200 lbs at a low bodyfat (naturally). I'm talking squats, benches, deads, cleans and dumbell work. Forget the bullshit. Don't listen to people who juice, they are delusional from the juice. They can eat more and train less with nice gains. Big gains are hard to come by natty if you are not a genetic beast. Especially if you have been training for a long time, which you have. Lean mass is all that matters, 20 lbs of slop is a waste of time.
If you gained 6 pounds in one week, in that condition, it was mostly water and fat. Just being real with you bro, I did it with myself long ago, and I have a better physique today because of it. Bite the bullet, and drop ALL the fat. When you are lean (for real) start eating again and train HARD. It's important you don't eat to much, it will just turn to fat. Enough to grow, that's it.
Constructive criticism my friend, I would expect nothing less from you if I was asking. You are doing a good job, just keep working.
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=213488.0;attach=249991;image)
Judging by this picture, I would have a hard time believing your waist is 29 inches. Do you realize how small that is? Judging by this picture, if you got rid of that lower stomach fat / lower back fat you would have a waist that was about 27 inches. Thats just not accurate IMO. You don't have good genetics ( not saying this to insult you) so eating to much food will lead to fat for you, period. However, you don't have bad genetics (see Mower), so you can make some legit gains if you work. You should focus on getting in shape, eating enough calories to grow, but not so much that you get fat. For your body type, its a long marathon - not a sprint. You are about 8 - 10 years of solid training /diet away from 200 lbs at a low bodyfat (naturally). I'm talking squats, benches, deads, cleans and dumbell work. Forget the bullshit. Don't listen to people who juice, they are delusional from the juice. They can eat more and train less with nice gains. Big gains are hard to come by natty if you are not a genetic beast. Especially if you have been training for a long time, which you have. Lean mass is all that matters, 20 lbs of slop is a waste of time.
If you gained 6 pounds in one week, in that condition, it was mostly water and fat. Just being real with you bro, I did it with myself long ago, and I have a better physique today because of it. Bite the bullet, and drop ALL the fat. When you are lean (for real) start eating again and train HARD. It's important you don't eat to much, it will just turn to fat. Enough to grow, that's it.
Constructive criticism my friend, I would expect nothing less from you if I was asking. You are doing a good job, just keep working.
This is right on the money. Although I don't think that 200 is attainable for him naturally at a low BF, assuming you mean under 15%.
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when i stopped drinking soda i dropped about 20 lbs, and then put it back on in mostly lean mass in about 3 months. Now the only caffeine i have is about once a week i have a cup of black coffee. I sleep better now too. B vitamins and taurine wake me up more than caffeine anyways and don't crash.
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when i stopped drinking soda i dropped about 20 lbs, and then put it back on in mostly lean mass in about 3 months. Now the only caffeine i have is about once a week i have a cup of black coffee. I sleep better now too. B vitamins and taurine wake me up more than caffeine anyways and don't crash.
wow 20 lbs of muscle in 3 months ::)
I bet the one cup of coffee a week feels great. That's what I do, no caffeine except before my sunday workout, which always kicks ass.
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This is right on the money. Although I don't think that 200 is attainable for him naturally at a low BF, assuming you mean under 15%.
I think 240 said he was 6 foot in the past? If he is shorter than 5'11 you are correct, more like 180 - 190 ripped. 240 don't take that as an insult. With your frame, you would be more than happy at 185 lbs shredded. Look at some pictures of flex wheeler when he was light. He looked dynamite ( I know he was on the sauce) just saying.
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I think 240 said he was 6 foot in the past? If he is shorter than 5'11 you are correct, more like 180 - 190 ripped. 240 don't take that as an insult. With your frame, you would be more than happy at 185 lbs shredded. Look at some pictures of flex wheeler when he was light. He looked dynamite ( I know he was on the sauce) just saying.
i'm 5 10. maybe 5'11 if i don't slouch. my legs are disproportionately big/long for my skinny upper body. i'm taking daily waistline measurements, def not going to get fat like last time, just adding 3 cups rice to what i'm doing.
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i'm 5 10. maybe 5'11 if i don't slouch. my legs are disproportionately big/long for my skinny upper body. i'm taking daily waistline measurements, def not going to get fat like last time, just adding 3 cups rice to what i'm doing.
You are the same height as Zane, maybe 1" taller. He was juiced to the gills. He competed at 180, why do you think that you should be 20lbs heavier?
Can I get a reality check?
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This is right on the money. Although I don't think that 200 is attainable for him naturally at a low BF, assuming you mean under 15%.
Check Jrod that posts here. And Layne Norton. Both naturals that have reached beyond 200 pounds without going near 15% bf. Of course, they are young and stuff, but still..
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Check Jrod that posts here. And Layne Norton. Both naturals that have reached beyond 200 pounds without going near 15% bf.
Jrod's natural status is questionable and I would bet that Layne was north of 15% at 200, post pics showing otherwise.
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Jrod's natural status is questionable and I would bet that Layne was north of 15% at 200, post pics showing otherwise.
Layne has competed at 190+, thus, he has gone past 200 while staying under 15%. He actually measured in under that at 220 (albeit, the accuracy of the calipers can be questioned).
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Layne has competed at 190+, thus, he has gone past 200 while staying under 15%. He actually measured in under that at 220 (albeit, the accuracy of the calipers can be questioned).
I find this doubtful.
Even if it is true, I don't see how it relates to 240's goals.
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It`s what a persons physique looks like,not what it weighs.
Just train harder,get leaner and you`ll look bigger even without gaining weight.
You can also change your body composition by losing fat and building muscle.
You look way better than you did in the past so you`re doing something right.
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If i can do this (with Shit Genetics)
why can't you do something similar?
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a326/arvilla/shredded.jpg)
he's not on steroids.
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I find this doubtful.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne40.htm
From that article:
" am currently weighing in at 197 lbs upon waking in the morning and am usually around 200 lbs at night. Caliper readings place me at 3.0% body fat. Calipers however, always measure around 2-4% lower than what one's actual body fat is, so I figure I can still lose another 1-2% body fat. This should put my competition weight anywhere from 193-195 lbs."
He is not making that up.
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197lbs if he's 6' 5" maybe. ::)
(http://www.packonmuscle.com/5.jpg)
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197lbs if he's 6' 5" maybe. ::)
(http://www.packonmuscle.com/5.jpg)
That picture is from he was 18 or something.
Ps: How's that Dianabol working for you? Gotten any new friends lately? :D
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You look way better than you did in the past so you`re doing something right.
yea he lost weight. now he thinks that gaining a pound every day is a good sign. lol
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That picture is from he was 18 or something.
Ps: How's that Dianabol working for you? Gotten any new friends lately? :D
just you, fruitcup.
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197lbs if he's 6' 5" maybe. ::)
(http://www.packonmuscle.com/5.jpg)
He's 6'6"
He must have bought Manute Bol's old house.
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He's 6'6"
He must have bought Manute Bol's old house.
2006: 190+ in your face
(http://www.biolayne.com/Bio%20Layne%20Web%20Gallery/Albums/Album6/Large/posedownMM.jpg)
(http://www.biolayne.com/Bio%20Layne%20Web%20Gallery/Albums/Album6/Large/posedownSC.jpg)
(http://www.biolayne.com/Bio%20Layne%20Web%20Gallery/Albums/Album6/Large/MM5.jpg)
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2006: 190+ in your face
(http://www.biolayne.com/Bio%20Layne%20Web%20Gallery/Albums/Album6/Large/posedownMM.jpg)
(http://www.biolayne.com/Bio%20Layne%20Web%20Gallery/Albums/Album6/Large/posedownSC.jpg)
(http://www.biolayne.com/Bio%20Layne%20Web%20Gallery/Albums/Album6/Large/MM5.jpg)
neither 190+ nor natural there
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neither 190+ nor natural there
You = full of bs.
Ps: Donald Lawrence will still sue you ;D
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he's not on steroids.
Very true and a very good point! (but these results are not unreasonable, taking into account my finacial matters it was more about hard work and Larry's help rather than steroids and GH)
hard work can overcome most anything! (even "shity genetics")
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Very true and a very good point! (but these results are not unreasonable, taking into account my finacial matters it was more about hard work and Larry's help rather than steroids and GH)
hard work can overcome most anything! (even "shity genetics")
I disagree that hard work can overcome "shitty genetics".
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I disagree that hard work can overcome "shitty genetics".
you kno what i mean..................im never gunna be "great", but im a lot better than i was (ever thought i could be!)
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you kno what i mean..................im never gunna be "great", but im a lot better than i was (ever thought i could be!)
My point is the goal of 200lbs ripped naturally is unattainable at a less than tall height. Trying will only get someone fat.
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i don't care about ever getting into 8% much less 5% contest shape. I don't worry if I look like a bodybuilder. I'd be happy looking like a 5'10", 200 pound guy at 12% bf.
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you kno what i mean..................im never gunna be "great", but im a lot better than i was (ever thought i could be!)
Mike let me start by saying I think you look great. You also have to remember that you are well over six feet, correct? Six two if I am not mistaken.
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You = full of bs.
Ps: Donald Lawrence will still sue you ;D
You're right, I'm converted
240 you are not making the gains you crave because you need to work harder on your nutrition. you should be consuming more healthy foods and getting in more meals. Take in a lot of protein powder, and stack it with a quality weight gainer also start a loading cycle with creatine to reactiviate your gains. If you're gaining ONLY 6 lbs a week it's likely that you're not maxing out your lean mass acquisition..
Lets get serious I want to see you start a training log detailing your work outs and nutrition. Considering that you are a hard-gainer with a high metabolism you're going to need at least 6000 Cals per day for maintenance. so for gains go for 7500.
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You're right, I'm converted
240 you are not making the gains you crave because you need to work harder on your nutrition. you should be consuming more healthy foods and getting in more meals. Take in a lot of protein powder, and stack it with a quality weight gainer also start a loading cycle with creatine to reactiviate your gains. If you're gaining ONLY 6 lbs a week it's likely that you're not maxing out your lean mass acquisition..
Lets get serious I want to see you start a training log detailing your work outs and nutrition. Considering that you are a hard-gainer with a high metabolism you're going to need at least 6000 Cals per day for maintenance. so for gains go for 7500.
Hopefully you understood that Debussey was refering to your comments about Laynes weight and natural status.
Only a fool would eat 6000 calories daily, especially if natural. Naturals should never bulk and get fat.
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Hopefully you understood that Debussey was refering to your comments about Laynes weight and natural status.
Only a fool would eat 6000 calories daily, especially if natural. Naturals should never bulk and get fat.
Brother, you obviously don't understand what it takes to get Huge. I am Animal Pak.
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Some shit brick had me buying into the 5000 cals per day crap when I was in college. Total waste of money / kidney function.
Eat enough food to grow, and train your balls off. Don't eat to many calories and become a natty perma bulker.
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as long as your diet consists of 90% rice and you get 100 grams of protein every 2 hours you cannot gain fat and you will gain 6lbs of muscle just like 240 did. :P
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Brother, you obviously don't understand what it takes to get Huge. I am Animal Pak.
Are you suggesting that Debussey should take creatine, dumzumDamine, 19-85-ketoDuraboNorandrolin from Labrada, BCockCa, Penisine, Proteine, InsuguggulSterolin and eat 7000 calories daily from rice and tuna to get hooge?
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Rice is made from magical powder. The magic pixie dust prevents it from being turned into glucose.
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as long as your diet consists of 90% rice and you get 100 grams of protein every 2 hours you cannot gain fat and you will gain 6lbs of muscle just like 240 did. :P
LOL... I admitted most was probably water or filling out my glyco stores.
I only get 200 grams of protein per day. I eat a lot of fat - PB, fish oil, and beef.
Supps... I take fish oil for the EFAs. I sometimes replace a meal protein with 2 scoops of when when I'm too lazy to cook and there aren't leftovers. Multivitamin. And adding zinc/magnesium.
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LOL... I admitted most was probably water or filling out my glyco stores.
I only get 200 grams of protein per day. I eat a lot of fat - PB, fish oil, and beef.
Supps... I take fish oil for the EFAs. I sometimes replace a meal protein with 2 scoops of when when I'm too lazy to cook and there aren't leftovers. Multivitamin. And adding zinc/magnesium.
200 grams of protein is perfect at 179 lbs. You only need to support your lean mass ( which is about 160 lbs). Eat enough to grow, don't eat to much. Honestly, its a waste of time and kidney function. You are only going to take in so many calories ( as a natural) until you start storing body fat. It's what the body does by design homey.
BB is not as complicated as people want you to believe. Train your dick off, get the correct ratio of carbs, fats and protein ( for your body), take a multi, use protein powder, take creatine, take aminos and drink a ton of water. Rinse - repeat x years.
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200 grams of protein is perfect at 179 lbs. You only need to support your lean mass ( which is about 160 lbs). Eat enough to grow, don't eat to much. Honestly, its a waste of time and kidney function. You are only going to take in so many calories ( as a natural) until you start storing body fat. It's what the body does by design homey.
BB is not as complicated as people want you to believe. Train your dick off, get the correct ratio of carbs, fats and protein ( for your body), take a multi, use protein powder and drink a ton of water. Rinse - repeat x years.
thanks man. Yeah, I'm doing the layne diet he wrote out for me. Only change is adding the carbs and cutting caffeine. I don't understand the heat I'm catching on this. Last time, yeah, I was gaining a pound a day by eating fast food and telling the boards how smart I was for it. I promptly got fat. This week, I gained weight after not gaining weight for a long time, and most of it was probably ending the massive dehydration I had been in for a long time. I was averaging a 2-lier of diet dr pepper plus two yellow caff pills each day. Suddenly I am doing zero (maybe a few sips of diet soda every few hours when withdrawl headache came). It's a major difference.
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thanks man. Yeah, I'm doing the layne diet he wrote out for me. Only change is adding the carbs and cutting caffeine. I don't understand the heat I'm catching on this. Last time, yeah, I was gaining a pound a day by eating fast food and telling the boards how smart I was for it. I promptly got fat. This week, I gained weight after not gaining weight for a long time, and most of it was probably ending the massive dehydration I had been in for a long time. I was averaging a 2-lier of diet dr pepper plus two yellow caff pills each day. Suddenly I am doing zero (maybe a few sips of diet soda every few hours when withdrawl headache came). It's a major difference.
Ask Layne to help you out with the bulking. His 4-6 week bulk -> 2-3 week fatburning diet might be just what you need.
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thanks man. Yeah, I'm doing the layne diet he wrote out for me. Only change is adding the carbs and cutting caffeine. I don't understand the heat I'm catching on this. Last time, yeah, I was gaining a pound a day by eating fast food and telling the boards how smart I was for it. I promptly got fat. This week, I gained weight after not gaining weight for a long time, and most of it was probably ending the massive dehydration I had been in for a long time. I was averaging a 2-lier of diet dr pepper plus two yellow caff pills each day. Suddenly I am doing zero (maybe a few sips of diet soda every few hours when withdrawl headache came). It's a major difference.
Well, Layne look great so listen to what he has to say. Imo, I think you are over thinking this. If you bite the bullet and get very lean, on the way down you keep track of how many calories it took you to weigh a certain weight, then you go back up slowly with the correct ratios ( giving your body time to gain mass) you should be happy.
Layne has better genetics than people give him credit for ( for mass ). He also has a much thicker structure than you, sop his results will not be accurate for you IMO.
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eat more protein ! protein is key
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Mike let me start by saying I think you look great. You also have to remember that you are well over six feet, correct? Six two if I am not mistaken.
yea I'm just about 6 ft 2"................i understand your point
i just think Rob could look a lot better if he just dieted hard/harder and trained correctly,it's not about waxy maize or any other "secret" or supplement (or even steroids or GH)..........just hard consistent training and dieting day in and day out
Larry taught me discipline (he was in the military i believe Marine?).....i too thought it was some secret exotic steroid i didn't have or GH or something! ......i got laughed at and told "get your fat ass on the treadmill!"
don't eat for taste eat for "fuel",eat every 2 -3 hours(high protein.low carbs,low fat)
cardio first thing in the AM on an empty stomach,then at night after all meals were consumed
write every meal down (and tally up the protein,carbs etc to hit that days exact number),and if im not seeing results play around (usually that meant lower) the carbs.......,make up for my lack of money with hard work!(you got to train harder and diet harder than anyone else!)
that about sums up for me how to "get in shape"...
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200 grams of protein is perfect at 179 lbs. You only need to support your lean mass ( which is about 160 lbs). Eat enough to grow, don't eat to much. Honestly, its a waste of time and kidney function. You are only going to take in so many calories ( as a natural) until you start storing body fat. It's what the body does by design homey.
BB is not as complicated as people want you to believe. Train your dick off, get the correct ratio of carbs, fats and protein ( for your body), take a multi, use protein powder, take creatine, take aminos and drink a ton of water. Rinse - repeat x years.
This is the part that most people don't get. Oh sure, they think they're training hard but they're always surprised in hindsight that they could have trained harder. Especially legs. That is the key bodypart for guys as they get older. I'd stake my life on it. :P
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"Squats are for people who don't bench enough" - Ben White, MD athlete.
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This is the part that most people don't get. Oh sure, they think they're training hard but they're always surprised in hindsight that they could have trained harder. Especially legs. That is the key bodypart for guys as they get older. I'd stake my life on it. :P
Yup, when you start doing all the exercises you used to make excuses to not do, thennnnn you are lifting hard. IMO hargainer Natty's should be doing Squats, deads, cleans, heavy presses and snatches in some variation every week.
I know this sounds corney, but you will stay the same until you say "fuck it" and lift really hard. Diet and sleep is important, but I think today's "experts" take the emphasis on the way to grow. Don't train like a little bitch.
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"Squats are for people who don't bench enough" - Ben White, MD athlete.
bench is for people who dont squat enough - ben white jr, weider athlete.
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Hopefully you understood that Debussey was refering to your comments about Laynes weight and natural status.
Only a fool would eat 6000 calories daily, especially if natural. Naturals should never bulk and get fat.
I would literally have to eat fast food daily (1 or 2 times), to meet that quota. And given how fast I put on FAT, that would not be a good thing. But I agree, it's silly for a natural to take in that much.
If I ever bulk again, I will do so cleanly. As a natural, I cannot get away with pigging out.
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This is the part that most people don't get. Oh sure, they think they're training hard but they're always surprised in hindsight that they could have trained harder. Especially legs. That is the key bodypart for guys as they get older. I'd stake my life on it. :P
Thank you. Well said.
Personally, I feel that training legs (right & hard) is the difference between your gym "warriors" and your serious trainers/bbers.
Another mistake I see too many people make, is that they don't change workouts frequently enough, if at all.
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Are you suggesting that Debussey should take creatine, dumzumDamine, 19-85-ketoDuraboNorandrolin from Labrada, BCockCa, Penisine, Proteine, InsuguggulSterolin and eat 7000 calories daily from rice and tuna to get hooge?
That would probably be sufficient for muscle maintenance.
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alot of guys talking about naturals, about eating clean as a natural, abotu limiting calories as anatural...
guys
when gh15 says you can eat all you want "hormonezed" he is talking about a 250+ ripped bodybuilder who has a bmr of 4000+ per day and is on gh and cytomel along with slin and on top of that a lot of test, deca, dbol..
if you think a 190 lb dude with 12 % bf that takes 500mg of test and a couple dbols can eat all he wants and not get fat, your fucking retarded.
in fact, its probably worse to get fat on juice than it is as a natural...cuz super physiological levels of estrogen + high body fat = not a pretty thing, also..you dont have to over eat to stimulate protien syntheses when on androgens and anabolics...
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Rob are you sure you've been here 6 years? I don't recall you here for that long.
The Beef
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Rob are you sure you've been here 6 years? I don't recall you here for that long.
The Beef
something like that. i found it in 2001, became a regular in 03 when i got brutally fat with getbig's discouragement.
(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k94/fishyfinger/giftube/30.gif)