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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: OzmO on May 19, 2008, 06:15:16 PM
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Seriously, all sarcasm aside.
First he says something to the effect that capital gains should be raised because it's fair, then he's talking about not driving an SUV (which i own one, but just bought a new car.....v-6 sweet 19 mpg....lol), not setting the AC to 72, and not eating as much as i want.
If this guy is going to act like my mother he can go fuck himself. I already have a mom, and she's the only one who gets to tell me that.
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lol. :) Ozmo has seen the light.
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Yeah well I'm not all that high on McCain either. And his wife reminds me of Cruella Deville.
I can imagine him giving us a economic stimulus check to the tune of 1 dollar for every year of my age.
And hillary can..... well any can fill the blank on that one.
We will see, when it's down to the actual race.
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Do you think that perhaps his premise is just to make you think a little bit more about what it is that you're doing?
I agree, no one needs another mother, but let's be honest... Someone reminding you about things isn't necessarily a bad thing is it?
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I'm not crazy about McCain either, but he's a better candidate than Obama IMO. If you own stock, make more than $150k a year, own a business, or are a consumer, which covers just about everyone, he is simply bad news.
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Do you think that perhaps his premise is just to make you think a little bit more about what it is that you're doing?
I agree, no one needs another mother, but let's be honest... Someone reminding you about things isn't necessarily a bad thing is it?
The point is, it's my decision to make. We have enough of government telling us what we can and cannot say or do. It's not a decisive issue for me regarding him. It just reminds of how all the candidates are lacking especially if your vote will likely be cast to prevent someone from being in office rather than to elect someone to office.
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I'm not crazy about McCain either, but he's a better candidate than Obama IMO. If you own stock, make more than $150k a year, own a business, or are a consumer, which covers just about everyone, he is simply bad news.
What about being a consumer is better about McCain? Or even owning Stock... I'm really interested.
Do those good points make it better when the idea of putting a Trillion dollars into Iraq?
I'm concerned about the idea that taxes are "bad". I thought they were necessary and the only way we can:
1. Get out of Debt.
and
2. Raise the value of the dollar.
What makes you think that McCain has a better understanding about the economy than Obama?
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I'm not crazy about McCain either, but he's a better candidate than Obama IMO. If you own stock, make more than $150k a year, own a business, or are a consumer, which covers just about everyone, he is simply bad news.
Looks to me that we might go from one bad extreme to another. :(
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The point is, it's my decision to make. We have enough of government telling us what we can and cannot say or do. It's not a decisive issue for me regarding him. It just reminds of how all the candidates are lacking especially if your vote will likely be cast to prevent someone from being in office rather than to elect someone to office.
That's like saying that the government should be able to tell you how to drive or wear a seat belt, which they certainly do.
If driving is inherently a "privilege", than all things going along with it are privileges as well... You are paying for the privilege of driving or owning that vehicle.
I still say it's much more about making you think before you act... which is generally a good thing.
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Better to choose the man who will borrow money from chinese using our roads as collateral, give the $ to corporations and war machine, and possibly crash the dollar.
Do you know how much it will cost to fill up that SUV when mcCain jokingly bombs iran and the gulf closes? yikes...
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What about being a consumer is better about McCain? Or even owning Stock... I'm really interested.
Do those good points make it better when the idea of putting a Trillion dollars into Iraq?
I'm concerned about the idea that taxes are "bad". I thought they were necessary and the only way we can:
1. Get out of Debt.
and
2. Raise the value of the dollar.
What makes you think that McCain has a better understanding about the economy than Obama?
Regarding your questions:
1. Obama is bad for anyone who owns stock, because he wants to raise capital gains taxes. Millions of Americans own stock.
2. Obama is bad for consumers, because he wants to increase the cost of doing business by, among other things, raises taxes on business. When the government increases the cost of doing business, business passes that cost along to consumers.
3. I think McCain has a better understanding of the economy than Obama from this standpoint: he understands that you don't raise taxes and/or increase the cost of doing business as a means to help consumers. That just doesn't work. He also understands that we need to cut taxes and reduce spending, while Obama is focused on class warfare.
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Blah...blah...blah... more bullshit from gramps.
Apparently gramps knows more than all the business gurus who support Obama.
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Regarding your questions:
1. Obama is bad for anyone who owns stock, because he wants to raise capital gains taxes. Millions of Americans own stock.
2. Obama is bad for consumers, because he wants to increase the cost of doing business by, among other things, raises taxes on business. When the government increases the cost of doing business, business passes that cost along to consumers.
3. I think McCain has a better understanding of the economy than Obama from this standpoint: he understands that you don't raise taxes and/or increase the cost of doing business as a means to help consumers. That just doesn't work. He also understands that we need to cut taxes and reduce spending, while Obama is focused on class warfare.
I disagree with your points.
1. I own stock... and I when I sell, I simply have to pay taxes on it... I don't like taxes, but I understand that they are a requirement.
2. The cost of doing business should be raised... as a matter of fact, it should be raised for companies who do business outside of the US with regards to labor and yet receive the tax benefits of being a US company.
3. I disagree... The number one thing that the government should be focused on is raising the value of the US dollar and the number 2 thing should be to raise the GDP of this country.
The way to do that is to penalize companies for using overseas labor and to get us out of debt, which is what taxes will accomplish.
As a person who owns stock, I would much rather see ME get taxed and get rid of the debt, than to force that off on my children.
Do you want your children to have to pay for the mistakes you made?
You also know that most Americans do not make anywhere close to 150K a year right?
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I disagree with your points.
1. I own stock... and I when I sell, I simply have to pay taxes on it... I don't like taxes, but I understand that they are a requirement.
2. The cost of doing business should be raised... as a matter of fact, it should be raised for companies who do business outside of the US with regards to labor and yet receive the tax benefits of being a US company.
3. I disagree... The number thing that the government should be focused on is raising the value of the US dollar and the number 2 thing should be to raise the GDP of this country.
The way to do that is to penalize companies for using overseas labor and to get us out of debt, which is what taxes will accomplish.
As a person who owns stock, I would much rather see ME get taxed and get rid of the debt, than to force that off on my children.
Do you want your children to have to pay for the mistakes you made?
Good post.
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I agree tu holmes id much rather see you get taxed 25% (Obama) then me get taxed on it. haha ::) 25% why so much when their is plenty of pie to go around.
Good post.
good contribution to the thread
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3. I think McCain has a better understanding of the economy than Obama from this standpoint: he understands that you don't raise taxes and/or increase the cost of doing business as a means to help consumers. That just doesn't work. He also understands that we need to cut taxes and reduce spending, while Obama is focused on class warfare.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahaha
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I agree tu holmes id much rather see you get taxed 25% (Obama) then me get taxed on it. haha ::) 25% why so much when their is plenty of pie to go around.
good contribution to the thread
I'm sure you would... but I would certainly not want my kids to have to deal with a debt that they didn't create.
Hell, I didn't create most of this one, but I'm willing to do what it takes to get rid of it and start a trend of fiscal responsibility in our government.
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Beach bum doesn't believe the borrowing of the last 4.5 years is dangerous.
Before you argue with him, think about that.
Beach Bum believes we should be in 2 more wars right now because of what their leaders said.
Before you argue with him, think about that.
Beach Bum doesn't understand how 'no more oil from the middle east' will affect us.
Before you argue with him, think about that.
He's a child. He comes here for advices.
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good contribution to the thread
In Makaveli's The Prince he talks how about the ruler should use his power. Clerely your philosopy needs brushing up. If all exist for the one, thne the wun is all.
Is that better? ::)
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The way to do that is to penalize companies for using overseas labor and to get us out of debt, which is what taxes will accomplish.
Will never happen.
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In Makaveli's The Prince he talks how about the ruler should use his power. Clerely your philosopy needs brushing up. If all exist for the one, thne the wun is all.
Is that better? ::)
I doubt you read the whole thing, or even understand any of the underlying themes lol.
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Will never happen.
Perhaps not... but to say it will not is not quite true... It has happened before and CAN happen again.
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I doubt you read the whole thing, or even understand any of the underlying themes lol.
I could not care less about the Prince. i was just satirizing your posting style, but apparently satire is lost on you.
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Perhaps not... but to say it will not is not quite true... It has happened before and CAN happen again.
If the money supply is outnumbered by the debt to the level that it is now, can it be possible to ever pay off the debt, especially at the rate of spending compared to saving?
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If the money supply is outnumbered by the debt to the level that it is now, can it be possible to ever pay off the debt, especially at the rate of spending compared to saving?
If we fire the IRS and Fed treasury that will free up the money in 3 days!!!! ;D
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If we fire the IRS and Fed treasury that will free up the money in 3 days!!!! ;D
lol
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Haha. WIsh it was that easy. Unfortunately, Bush has married us to the Chinese and a whole bunch of other states to fund his stupid holy wars.
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If the money supply is outnumbered by the debt to the level that it is now, can it be possible to ever pay off the debt, especially at the rate of spending compared to saving?
Not at our current spend rate, no... but it could happen.
If I recall correctly, under Bill Clinton we had a surplus and that was being used to reduce the debt and in turn reduce the deficit. I believe had all kept going as was on the books the deficit would have been eliminated by 2012? I could be wrong on the year, but I do believe I recall seeing where it would have eventually been completely eliminated had we continued to drive it down.
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Every dollar note comes into existence through one of the twelve Federal Reserve Banks loaning out money at a particular rate. Only those notes can be used to pay off the debt with a particular Federal Reserve Bank. So essentially this "money" is created out of thin air, and then loaned out into society.
Then that "money" is further expanded in private banks through a practice called "fractional reserve banking". According to the New York Federal Reserve Bank,
"If the reserve requirement is 10%, for example, a bank that receives a $100 deposit may lend out $90 of that deposit. If the borrower then writes a check to someone who deposits the $90, the bank receiving that deposit can lend out $81. As the process continues, the banking system can expand the initial deposit of $100 into a maximum of $1,000 of money ($100+$90+81+$72.90+...=$1,000)."
According to private sector calculations(since M3 is no longer released by the Federal Reserve) there is estimated to be 14.6 trillion reserve notes(actual dollar bills) in circulation today(a significant amount of that is being held by foreign countries so in reality, there is even less being circulated in the U.S. economy). So this provides a potential of there being 146 trillion dollars in total money after money expansion through "fractional reserve banking".
Every time the money supply increases, it pushes prices up. Let's say you grow corn. If you produce 100,000 bushels a year at $2.12 per bushel, you make $212,000 in gross sales in which you then deduct costs to determine your income. However, there is a limited amount of corn you produce. You cannot just decide one year that you will produce 200,000 bushels with the same amount of land and labor put into it. So each bushel has a real value as land is limited and your labor and time is limited. So if the government borrows one trillion dollars from the Federal Reserve and they then spend 100 billion on corn, there is now less corn that year and the usual purchasers, such as cereal factories, etc, now have to pay a higher amount to buy the same amount of corn as they would have before since the supply has been decreased. So the price rises and we see inflation. Then as the private banks expand that one trillion dollars to ten trillion dollars, the price of corn and other commodities will continue to rise(or one could say that the value of the dollar has declined).
So if the money supply is expanded through debt creation, which results in inflation, then when you try to pay off debt, the money supply will in return contract, which will result in deflation. So when any significant amount of debt is paid off that is more then being created at a given time, this will cause there to be up to ten times less the amount of money that is paid off. So if the United States Government paid down all of it's debt today, which is 9.3 trillion, this would cause the money supply to contract by upwards of 93 trillion dollars. That would mean a 64% decrease in the money supply. So the price of everything would then need to decrease to 1/3rd their current value(payroll included). During that adjusting period, very few things would be exchanged back and forth which would translate into many people losing their jobs and taking very large pay cuts and also not being able to purchase the basic amenities as they are priced 64% too high. People would feel like they just don't have enough money. Companies wouldn't have enough money to pay their employees and many jobs that are currently paid below 17$/hour would need to be adjusted below the minimum wage rate.
This would translate into a recession the equivalent of the Great Depression. Likewise any amount of paying down the federal debt will cause this deflation to occur proportional to the amount being paid off.
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I disagree with your points.
1. I own stock... and I when I sell, I simply have to pay taxes on it... I don't like taxes, but I understand that they are a requirement.
2. The cost of doing business should be raised... as a matter of fact, it should be raised for companies who do business outside of the US with regards to labor and yet receive the tax benefits of being a US company.
3. I disagree... The number one thing that the government should be focused on is raising the value of the US dollar and the number 2 thing should be to raise the GDP of this country.
The way to do that is to penalize companies for using overseas labor and to get us out of debt, which is what taxes will accomplish.
As a person who owns stock, I would much rather see ME get taxed and get rid of the debt, than to force that off on my children.
Do you want your children to have to pay for the mistakes you made?
You also know that most Americans do not make anywhere close to 150K a year right?
1. You don't have a problem with paying higher taxes on capital gains, but millions of Americans do. That's not good for the country.
2. Increasing the cost of doing business hurts all of us, from the low wage earner to the high wage earner, from low net worth to high net worth. Also, when you start using these income guidelines to target the "wealthy," a lot of small businesses get caught up in that class warfare.
3. I disagree. I'd say the number 1 economic priority would be getting us out of debt without attacking select segments of the country.
Yes I know most Americans don't make $150k a year. I'm sure you know that a lot of small businesses make anywhere from $100k to $300k a year, but don't net anywhere near that amount. Aren't they're considered "wealthy" under Obama's class warfare guidelines?
Also, it really isn't as simple as attacking high wage earners and the business community and using that money to pay down the debt. That's not what Obama wants to do. He wants to "roll back" tax cuts to fund socialized healthcare. All he talks about is robbing Peter to pay Paul.
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Every dollar note comes into existence through one of the twelve Federal Reserve Banks loaning out money at a particular rate. Only those notes can be used to pay off the debt with a particular Federal Reserve Bank. So essentially this "money" is created out of thin air, and then loaned out into society.
Then that "money" is further expanded in private banks through a practice called "fractional reserve banking". According to the New York Federal Reserve Bank,
"If the reserve requirement is 10%, for example, a bank that receives a $100 deposit may lend out $90 of that deposit. If the borrower then writes a check to someone who deposits the $90, the bank receiving that deposit can lend out $81. As the process continues, the banking system can expand the initial deposit of $100 into a maximum of $1,000 of money ($100+$90+81+$72.90+...=$1,000)."
According to private sector calculations(since M3 is no longer released by the Federal Reserve) there is estimated to be 14.6 trillion reserve notes(actual dollar bills) in circulation today(a significant amount of that is being held by foreign countries so in reality, there is even less being circulated in the U.S. economy). So this provides a potential of there being 146 trillion dollars in total money after money expansion through "fractional reserve banking".
Every time the money supply increases, it pushes prices up. Let's say you grow corn. If you produce 100,000 bushels a year at $2.12 per bushel, you make $212,000 in gross sales in which you then deduct costs to determine your income. However, there is a limited amount of corn you produce. You cannot just decide one year that you will produce 200,000 bushels with the same amount of land and labor put into it. So each bushel has a real value as land is limited and your labor and time is limited. So if the government borrows one trillion dollars from the Federal Reserve and they then spend 100 billion on corn, there is now less corn that year and the usual purchasers, such as cereal factories, etc, now have to pay a higher amount to buy the same amount of corn as they would have before since the supply has been decreased. So the price rises and we see inflation. Then as the private banks expand that one trillion dollars to ten trillion dollars, the price of corn and other commodities will continue to rise(or one could say that the value of the dollar has declined).
So if the money supply is expanded through debt creation, which results in inflation, then when you try to pay off debt, the money supply will in return contract, which will result in deflation. So when any significant amount of debt is paid off that is more then being created at a given time, this will cause there to be up to ten times less the amount of money that is paid off. So if the United States Government paid down all of it's debt today, which is 9.3 trillion, this would cause the money supply to contract by upwards of 93 trillion dollars. That would mean a 64% decrease in the money supply. So the price of everything would then need to decrease to 1/3rd their current value(payroll included). During that adjusting period, very few things would be exchanged back and forth which would translate into many people losing their jobs and taking very large pay cuts and also not being able to purchase the basic amenities as they are priced 64% too high. People would feel like they just don't have enough money. Companies wouldn't have enough money to pay their employees and many jobs that are currently paid below 17$/hour would need to be adjusted below the minimum wage rate.
This would translate into a recession the equivalent of the Great Depression. Likewise any amount of paying down the federal debt will cause this deflation to occur proportional to the amount being paid off.
Good lord what a mess.
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haha
thread implosion