Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: notle on June 09, 2008, 11:51:59 AM
-
been cycling AAS for a while, hate the yo-yo effect. it seems every cycle is a battle to regain lost muscle during the break, and i feel like shit and think its seriously whacking up my body.
trying to learn more about blasting and cruising concept, saw willgrant and no one advocating it in the short blast theory thread. hope both u guys can chime in on how to go bout doing it properly.
honestly i think doing it this way is alot better bodybuilding wise. Health wise it sure as hell beats crashing after every cycle. but long term effects im not sure, would appreciate any input on this.
here is what i have come up with so far, flame away or comment ;D
basically run a "normal" cycle,say for 10 weeks. then back off and run test at 250mg or 500mg a week, i would throw in proviron, hcg and probably arimadex during this "cruise" for a month or so before starting off on another "cycle"
-
I wouldn't call what you have planned out "blasting." Blasting is more like running 3-5K/mg/wk for 4-6 wks, off for 4-6wks repeat.
What you have planned out is not the worst thing in the world at all...IMO, if you've been following the time on equals time off theory, then what you're getting ready to do will be way better. At the same time, you need to go ahead and concede to yourself that you're going to take 1-2 6-8wk breaks from all gear use per yr....the rest of the time go ahead and stay on. I'm not going to say this is the healthiest way to do it, but like yousaid, there is no way the crashes can be healthy especially since they're repeated over and over again.
What I like doing these days: Staying on a regular cycle 16-20wks, maybe something like test deca and a good oral. Cruise on test for around 6wks, around 250mg/wk and then go full throttle again for another 16-20wks.
-
i have tried every rotation and cycling/ bridging theory i ever came across, and the only way i have found to keep steadily gaining is to run low dose test at 500mg a week, switching esters every 12-16 weeks.
a couple of times a year or so, i'll add in a compound(s) of my choosing depending on what it is i am looking for at that time.
offseason i'll use compounds like dbol or anadrol, etc. and at this time i'll ramp my test up to 1000 mg a week as well, but have never really found it necessary to go much higher than this, as i look at this alot like a risk vs. reward scenario based on what it is i am trying to achieve vs what i'm willing to do to get there and i always tip the scale in favour of my health.
pre- contest i'll use compounds such as fina/ winstrol/ eq/ clen/ etc. this is the only time of the year i'll use winstrol or fina, or a thermogenic compound of any nature as i really, really hate stimulants for many reasons.
eventhough i am basically 'on' year round, this approach is very conservative in that i only use organ- taxing compounds for a couple (2-4) of months of the year at the most. and as i mentioned before in the thread previous to this, mg per mg basis i am running alot lower doses and seeing alot better gains.
the one caveat i have noticed is that once you have gained the appreciable muscle size using a low dose year round approach, in order to keep making constant gains more slowly at times other than when i am cycling in other compounds one may have to make a jump up in the amount of test you stay on year round, as after a point, the amount of test you run will only support the amount of size you have already accumulated.
it is at this point you will have to re- evaluate what it is you expect from your training and where you plan to go with it. myself, i am teetering on the edge of needing to run 750mg a week now, and that is after 4 years of 500mg, so it isn't on a whim i am thinking of doing it. i have pretty much exhausted the capabilities of the amount of test i am running now in terms of increasing the amount of muscle i now wish to add.
for me it has always been about not how much muscle i could gain as quickly as possible, but how much muscle i could gain with as little risk as possible.
if you have any other questions post them up and i'll try my best to help you out.
-
thanks for your help arnold jnr and no one,your inputs will be invaluable to me.
i like the way u look at it from a "how much muscle i could gain with as little risk as possible". it seems u have seriously factored in your health.
here are a couple of questions :
1)since you have been on it for awhile, can you comment on any known long term risks to the body? mainly permanent damage (i do want to have kids in e near future!) , elsewhere i read of risks of being permanently shutdown but i believe those are not validated.
2)how do u feel about the use of HCG and anti-es during the "cruise" period? do you use them? is there a need?
3)do you reckon 250mg is enough? im worried about 500mg and its effects on cardiovascular health due to high hematocrit/hemoglobin
levels
thanks.
-
thanks for your help arnold jnr and no one,your inputs will be invaluable to me.
i like the way u look at it from a "how much muscle i could gain with as little risk as possible". it seems u have seriously factored in your health.
here are a couple of questions :
1)since you have been on it for awhile, can you comment on any known long term risks to the body? mainly permanent damage (i do want to have kids in e near future!) , elsewhere i read of risks of being permanently shutdown but i believe those are not validated.
2)how do u feel about the use of HCG and anti-es during the "cruise" period? do you use them? is there a need?
3)do you reckon 250mg is enough? im worried about 500mg and its effects on cardiovascular health due to high hematocrit/hemoglobin
levels
thanks.
If you come off for short periods like I said, you should be fine. Just keep an eye on all your levels throughout the cycles. Keep an eye on your BP, liver and cardiac enzymes and you should be fine.
I only use HCG when coming off and I typically only use AI's while dieting.
250mg will more then likely be fine.
As for permanently shut down...I believe it can happen...it is a risk, but a manageable one if you're not an idiot IMO.
-
oh ok....yeap i believe perm shutdown is quite rare and u really have to work at that.
no one would like to hear your views on sterility and hcg usage and its role since u have nvr been off, is conceiving still possible with the help of hcg while on? or do u have to be off?
reports i read of pple successfully using HCG/HMG to treat anabolic steroid-induced azoospermia are of those who had been off for a while, i would like to know how about people still running tests....
-
i have tried every rotation and cycling/ bridging theory i ever came across, and the only way i have found to keep steadily gaining is to run low dose test at 500mg a week, switching esters every 12-16 weeks.
a couple of times a year or so, i'll add in a compound(s) of my choosing depending on what it is i am looking for at that time.
offseason i'll use compounds like dbol or anadrol, etc. and at this time i'll ramp my test up to 1000 mg a week as well, but have never really found it necessary to go much higher than this, as i look at this alot like a risk vs. reward scenario based on what it is i am trying to achieve vs what i'm willing to do to get there and i always tip the scale in favour of my health.
pre- contest i'll use compounds such as fina/ winstrol/ eq/ clen/ etc. this is the only time of the year i'll use winstrol or fina, or a thermogenic compound of any nature as i really, really hate stimulants for many reasons.
eventhough i am basically 'on' year round, this approach is very conservative in that i only use organ- taxing compounds for a couple (2-4) of months of the year at the most. and as i mentioned before in the thread previous to this, mg per mg basis i am running alot lower doses and seeing alot better gains.
the one caveat i have noticed is that once you have gained the appreciable muscle size using a low dose year round approach, in order to keep making constant gains more slowly at times other than when i am cycling in other compounds one may have to make a jump up in the amount of test you stay on year round, as after a point, the amount of test you run will only support the amount of size you have already accumulated.
it is at this point you will have to re- evaluate what it is you expect from your training and where you plan to go with it. myself, i am teetering on the edge of needing to run 750mg a week now, and that is after 4 years of 500mg, so it isn't on a whim i am thinking of doing it. i have pretty much exhausted the capabilities of the amount of test i am running now in terms of increasing the amount of muscle i now wish to add.
for me it has always been about not how much muscle i could gain as quickly as possible, but how much muscle i could gain with as little risk as possible.
if you have any other questions post them up and i'll try my best to help you out.
This is what most of the NPC guys i've met over the years have done.
Coming off completely for a few weeks here and there only sets you back and does nothing to help your HPTA get back to normal. it takes MONTHS to get your HPTA back to normal after a big cycle.
When i was hitting it hard i didn't come off for a long time, but i cruised at 250mg a week for a few weeks here and there...most of the power lifters i train with haven't been off in 5-10 years and they are fine.
8)
-
thanks for your help arnold jnr and no one,your inputs will be invaluable to me.
i like the way u look at it from a "how much muscle i could gain with as little risk as possible". it seems u have seriously factored in your health.
here are a couple of questions :
1)since you have been on it for awhile, can you comment on any known long term risks to the body? mainly permanent damage (i do want to have kids in e near future!) , elsewhere i read of risks of being permanently shutdown but i believe those are not validated.
2)how do u feel about the use of HCG and anti-es during the "cruise" period? do you use them? is there a need?
3)do you reckon 250mg is enough? im worried about 500mg and its effects on cardiovascular health due to high hematocrit/hemoglobin
levels
thanks.
1. - Nope, i was on for years and it took 4 months to get my natural test kicking again. no health issues at all, just a lot of back hair and nagging injuries.
2. - HCG during cruise periods has been popular as of late, i never used it until the last few weeks before i came off completely. when i would cruise, i only used test.
3. - 250mg is fine and 500mg isn't going to harm you any more or less.
8)
-
for the guys who have cruised before... does the constant blodd levels really matter so much ?lets say all i have got is a sustanon ampules... could i do one ampule once a weeek and be okay on that ? hypothetically speaking of course
-
I was reading a post about blast/cruise on another board and everyone was saying how horrible it was, saying that if you dont respond to 500mg cycles something is wrong with you and cruising at 200mg can pose serious health risks... very conflicting info...
-
I was reading a post about blast/cruise on another board and everyone was saying how horrible it was, saying that if you dont respond to 500mg cycles something is wrong with you and cruising at 200mg can pose serious health risks... very conflicting info...
im sorry but i have read posts fom guys like that as well and all i can think of when i read these guys posts is that they are delusional pussy's...a dnt the kind of guys who rationalize sterodi use by thinking that in low doses its ACTUALLY healthy... which to me is just pure bullshit... when your injecting hormones into your body and fuckinig with your endocrine system and putting unatural amounts of muscle mass on your frame theres no way that can be healthy. these kind of giuys who talk abotu 500mg are also the kind of guys who hang form phil hernons nuts and act like pro's are using that same dose as well.. probably the type of dude who is going to tell you four esters are better than one, or that anything over 20mg of dbol per day for anything more than 4 weeks at a time and your liver is oging to fall out... ::)
ahhhhhhhhh what do i know ?? this is just what i think about that kind of thinking
-
I was reading a post about blast/cruise on another board and everyone was saying how horrible it was, saying that if you dont respond to 500mg cycles something is wrong with you and cruising at 200mg can pose serious health risks... very conflicting info...
The VAST majority of AAS user have no idea what they are doing or how to get REALLY big.
I'm guessing the guys who told you that have a very limited amount of actual AAS knowledge.
ALSO, there are MANY different ways to blast and cruise...some better than others. The post by "no one" is the method i have seen many NPC guys use over the years with good results.
Always take advice over the internet with a grain of salt.
8)
-
thanks for your input overload, im gonna start with 250mg in view of the caveat no one mentioned. how about sterility issues overload? is it still possible to conceive while running it in such a manner for a long time?
big mistake i made in my first year of aas use got it off bbing.com . so much for time on=time off bs...
-
thanks for your input overload, im gonna start with 250mg in view of the caveat no one mentioned. how about sterility issues overload? is it still possible to conceive while running it in such a manner for a long time?
big mistake i made in my first year of aas use got it off bbing.com . so much for time on=time off bs...
Yea they like to say that there as well as other places. We had a discussion about this pretty recently about the negatives of staying on vs staying on all the time and most of the guys, and I agree, think it's best just to stay on as long as you are going to be using. Coming off and going back on puts your hormones on a roller coaster ride and I think it does more damage in the long run.
-
thanks for your input overload, im gonna start with 250mg in view of the caveat no one mentioned. how about sterility issues overload? is it still possible to conceive while running it in such a manner for a long time?
big mistake i made in my first year of aas use got it off bbing.com . so much for time on=time off bs...
I'm not an expert on the reproductive system, but i know several guys who have been on for 5+ years and have not had any problems having children.
i also know guys who have never used AAS and they can't have kids.
it all boils down to genetics and other determining factors.
i know my best friend was in the middle of a VERY large/long cycle and he had two beautiful girls...twins.
8)
-
hey emmortal can u post e link to that discussion thread? i would like to read up further.
Thanks for your real world insight overload. i think i may have been convinced enough to take the plunge and start cruising (juz ended a cycle) and blastin till a comp i have nex year arnd april.
-
hey emmortal can u post e link to that discussion thread? i would like to read up further.
Thanks for your real world insight overload. i think i may have been convinced enough to take the plunge and start cruising (juz ended a cycle) and blastin till a comp i have nex year arnd april.
I'll try to find it, I can't remember the thread name, but I'll try and dig it up.
-
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=216838.msg3012289#msg3012289
There ya go.
-
What about some provi or arimidex during this 'cruise' period ?
-
ideally i would throw those in as well as hcg, but i have heard of pple doing fine with just test alone.
-
Why would you use hcg when you're 'on' ?
Usually it's only used in the PCT, right ?
-
Check for example the pros who have kids....Kevin, Marcus, Priest (from 19 yrs old) etc to name a few... 8)
-
Why would you use hcg when you're 'on' ?
Usually it's only used in the PCT, right ?
Wrong, HCG can be used while on cycle, or during PCT. It is really nothing more than a personal choice. I am a big supporter of using HCG while on cycle and keeping the leydig healthy and alive going into pct.
-
When you cruise at 250mg test enanthate after a bulking cycle, is it going to keep your gains untill you hit your "cutting" one in 4 weeks apart?
-
Do you mean will the 250mg test be enough to hold on to gains until you start your cutting cycle in 4 weeks? Yes. You will hold gains on 250mg test probably less. You would probably hold on to gains cruising at 100mg ew!
-
its not so much about the dosage that will keep your gains, ensuring an amount of exogenous hormones means your body wont go whack and crash in an attempt to restart its endo production, thats what makes your gains drop.
-
4th you really think 100 mg a week will sustain muscle mass?
-
What method do pros like ronnie coleman and jay cutler do?
Do they......
A. blast and curuise
B. Just Blast non stop
C. Other
-
What method do pros like ronnie coleman and jay cutler do?
Do they......
A. blast and curuise
B. Just Blast non stop
C. Other
im gonna go with B for one thousand bob ;D
-
its not so much about the dosage that will keep your gains, ensuring an amount of exogenous hormones means your body wont go whack and crash in an attempt to restart its endo production, thats what makes your gains drop.
Exactly.
8)
-
What method do pros like ronnie coleman and jay cutler do?
Do they......
A. blast and curuise
B. Just Blast non stop
C. Other
im gonna go with A , just except wad they would consider as their cruise would be a super blast for us ;D
-
I'm gonna go with A , just except wad they would consider as their cruise would be a super blast for us ;D
Amen, 750 mg of test is probably barely a maintain dose for Ronnie and that BS that he turned PRO as NATURAL is ridiculous at best. I think in the long run Jay will be healthier, or at least less sick than Ronnie since he is WAY smarter...
-
4th you really think 100 mg a week will sustain muscle mass?
Absolutely! I can gain off of 100mg ew!
-
Amen, 750 mg of test is probably barely a maintain dose for Ronnie and that BS that he turned PRO as NATURAL is ridiculous at best. I think in the long run Jay will be healthier, or at least less sick than Ronnie since he is WAY smarter...
luol, you honsetly think 750 would maintain a ronnie coleman in his prime ?
oh, and ronnie came off for a few months every year, while jay seems to keep it on blast all year long to milk the guest posing..
-
Absolutely! I can gain off of 100mg ew!
isnt that around what the body naturally produces ?
-
depending on the person I would think something close.
-
isnt that around what the body naturally produces ?
The average person, no. Someone your age maybe, but for most guys who are say over 25, chances are slim IMO.
luol, you honsetly think 750 would maintain a ronnie coleman in his prime ?
I think so...it would at least keep him in the "ready" state.
oh, and ronnie came off for a few months every year, while jay seems to keep it on blast all year long to milk the guest posing..
Hard to say IMO. I have no proof either way, but if there was a pool to bet in I'd say he comes off a little now and then.
-
luol, you honestly think 750 would maintain a Ronnie Coleman in his prime ?
oh, and Ronnie came off for a few months every year, while jay seems to keep it on blast all year long to milk the guest posing...
No, i don't. I think that might be the "cruising" dose for Ronnie or Jay. You know the dose that they take when they are "off."
I think that both of them come "off" for a while each year, but i think that they are using various peptides during that time. So i don't think either one of them are truly ever off. Maybe of testosterone, but on hgh and slin, igf-1 etc.
BTW: i think that there are plenty of pros that take more than Jay or Ronnie. I personally believe that many of the "smaller" bodybuilders take more, because they are not naturally meant to be monsters, so they have to compensate. I think that even if Jay or Ronnie would had never touched gear they both would be above average, but not PROS (of course)...
-
Speaking of Jay, saw him in Golds tonight, looking large as a house =)
-
That's one of the main problems I have with some of today's 'Pros.' Their genetics don't even compare with those of the Pros of the '90s and before. They just use more drugs to compensate.
I know one top Pro from the '90s that never, ever used above 750 mg test per week. He didn't need to with his genetics.
Of course, he was on other anabolics and eventually Slin, but with his genetics, less hormones were more than sufficient to achieve what today's Pros need 1 gram + to achieve.
-
Of course, he was on other anabolics and eventually Slin, but with his genetics, less hormones were more than sufficient to achieve what today's Pros need 1 gram + to achieve.
Or 3-5 grams plus all those exotics and peptides...
-
That's one of the main problems I have with some of today's 'Pros.' Their genetics don't even compare with those of the Pros of the '90s and before. They just use more drugs to compensate.
I know one top Pro from the '90s that never, ever used above 750 mg test per week. He didn't need to with his genetics.
Of course, he was on other anabolics and eventually Slin, but with his genetics, less hormones were more than sufficient to achieve what today's Pros need 1 gram + to achieve.
i honestly doubt any pro would use 750mg... MAYBE shawn ray was using something like 750mg test + 400mg deca + some dbol +some gh.... but those kind of genetics are fffaaarrrrr and in between. bodybuilding always had guys with subpar genetics in the pro ranks who juiced their way there (not to say they didnt bust their ass in the gym or werent dedicated with their diets tho)
-
Genetic response to AAS is, in my opinion, more important than overall genetics if you want to compete. Guys who have poor genetic response to AAS compensate with the huge doses and usually are the ones who end up with a ton of health problems.
-
i honestly doubt any pro would use 750mg... MAYBE shawn ray was using something like 750mg test + 400mg deca + some dbol +some gh.... but those kind of genetics are fffaaarrrrr and in between. bodybuilding always had guys with subpar genetics in the pro ranks who juiced their way there (not to say they didnt bust their ass in the gym or werent dedicated with their diets tho)
Shawn was not the only pro from the '90s who had awesome genetics for size, shape and hormone response. This particular pro was not on year round cycles either. He took time off between cycles. Some people are just more fortunate than others in this game.
-
My two favorite body builders ever are Lee haney and Shawn Ray......I watched both their videos and when you listen to them speak you cnan tell they know their shit and love the sport. They truly do their best to give legit advice and motivation in the best way possible.
It takes one to know one.....you can tell those two guys naturaly have the mind/muscle connection.....the only one better IMO is flex wheeler....who probably should have been a boxer instead of a body builder....what a freak!!!
-
I like Lee Haney, he is/was smart and knew how to behave himself on or off stage. Also he's been helping alot of new athletes climb up.
I never liked Shawn, too arrogant. Great physique though.
Flex, well he abused EVERYTHING and he has even said it himself. Also 90% of the time he acted like a 12-year old girl. Plus he is one of the dummest bodybuilders of all time. I remember him telling in MD few years back that, he injected 40+ vials of ESICLENE the morning of the show. Also his "friend" Chris Cormier has said many times that Flex never stayed on his diet and then tryid to compensate by using insane amounts of diuretics etc.
-
My two favorite body builders ever are Lee haney and Shawn Ray......I watched both their videos and when you listen to them speak you cnan tell they know their shit and love the sport. They truly do their best to give legit advice and motivation in the best way possible.
It takes one to know one.....you can tell those two guys naturaly have the mind/muscle connection.....the only one better IMO is flex wheeler....who probably should have been a boxer instead of a body builder....what a freak!!!
Flex Wheeler? You have to be joking right? That guy didn't even know what a military press was in one of his videos....he was one of the laziest guys in the gym too.
-
Flex Wheeler? You have to be joking right? That guy didn't even know what a military press was in one of his videos....he was one of the laziest guys in the gym too.
Yeah...sure.....his body is the result being lazy ::) ::) ::)
-
Yeah...sure.....his body is the result being lazy ::) ::) ::)
Yea it was actually. He's all drugs and an excellent genetic response to AAS. Look at the dude now, he's got so much oil in his arms it makes Exxon look like an anorexic heroin junky.
-
Yea it was actually. He's all drugs and an excellent genetic response to AAS. Look at the dude now, he's got so much oil in his arms it makes Exxon look like an anorexic heroin junky.
You can't accomplish what flex did...with all his place finishes at shows......and be lazy....its not possible.
No if you say he was more lazy than Dorian yates, ronnie, and Jay....thats a more true and believable statement.
-
Plus he is one of the dummest bodybuilders of all time. I remember him telling in MD few years back that, he injected 40+ vials of ESICLENE the morning of the show.
The best part was that Flex said Esiclene was a legal product. He didn't know that Esiclene contained Formebolone, most definitely an illegal steroid. Most of these guys don't know jack-shit about what they inject in their bodies.