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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: cbo on June 22, 2008, 12:26:17 PM

Title: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: cbo on June 22, 2008, 12:26:17 PM
I am 167 pounds and my post workout recover drink contains a creatine mix and about 45 grams of simple carbs. Is this enough to spike my insulin or do i need more simple carbs than just 45 grams.  I bought a gatorade powder mix bucket and I'm trying to figure out whether i need to put a scoop of that in there as well. That would boost it up to about 60 or 70ish,, whatcha think,, TANKS
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: Markoni on June 22, 2008, 12:32:04 PM
I would use 75g
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: JasonH on June 22, 2008, 03:51:13 PM
I am 167 pounds and my post workout recover drink contains a creatine mix and about 45 grams of simple carbs. Is this enough to spike my insulin or do i need more simple carbs than just 45 grams.  I bought a gatorade powder mix bucket and I'm trying to figure out whether i need to put a scoop of that in there as well. That would boost it up to about 60 or 70ish,, whatcha think,, TANKS

I would say it is - I have the same amount of carbs post workout and I haven't seen a aproblem and I weigh 240.
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: Necrosis on June 22, 2008, 04:11:44 PM
i would suggest littel to none as research has shown high gi carbs after training have minimal effect on body composition
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: candidizzle on June 22, 2008, 04:15:31 PM
i would suggest littel to none as research has shown high gi carbs after training have minimal effect on body composition
  ;)
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: Go 4 It on June 22, 2008, 05:43:42 PM
i would suggest littel to none as research has shown high gi carbs after training have minimal effect on body composition

Really? I thought the high gi carbs along with whey isolate help shuttle the protein into the muscle quickly and restore glycogen.....is this a myth..seriously?
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: candidizzle on June 22, 2008, 05:48:48 PM
Really? I thought the high gi carbs along with whey isolate help shuttle the protein into the muscle quickly and restore glycogen.....is this a myth..seriously?
myth? no. thats what happens. BUT, you dotn need high gi carbs to 'shuttle' protein into the muscle post training.  in fact; you NEVER need insulin or carbs in order to get protein into the muscle. insulin is counterbalanced by igf. so you always grow and absorb your food. carb or no carb.   the difference is that insulin does it better than igf.  so carbs are better for anabolism than no carbs. insulin=most anabolic hormone. BUT, and this is a big BUT, post training protien synthesis is ALREADY maximized; there is no need for insulin; the body is already growing and manufacturing proteins at the fastest rate possible. 
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: Necrosis on June 22, 2008, 05:50:53 PM
Really? I thought the high gi carbs along with whey isolate help shuttle the protein into the muscle quickly and restore glycogen.....is this a myth..seriously?

pretty much, glycogen depletion is a beneficial state where nutrients are taken up quite easity as the GLUT4 receptors are up regulated, insulin sensitivity increased etc.. so spiking insulin is not all that importatnt. A recent study showed no gains over straight protein, as did others. id say its just some shitty macros that you dont need in your diet. Pre workout carbs are helpful, nice complex ones is all you'll need and some protein in milk afterwards.
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: Necrosis on June 22, 2008, 05:51:33 PM
myth? no. thats what happens. BUT, you dotn need high gi carbs to 'shuttle' protein into the muscle post training.  in fact; you NEVER need insulin or carbs in order to get protein into the muscle. insulin is counterbalanced by igf. so you always grow and absorb your food. carb or no carb.   the difference is that insulin does it better than igf.  so carbs are better for anabolism than no carbs. insulin=most anabolic hormone. BUT, and this is a big BUT, post training protien synthesis is ALREADY maximized; there is no need for insulin; the body is already growing and manufacturing proteins at the fastest rate possible. 

good post.
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: Go 4 It on June 22, 2008, 05:55:47 PM
So what would be the ideal post workout shake or meal?
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: candidizzle on June 22, 2008, 06:13:14 PM
So what would be the ideal post workout shake or meal?
how about 3 g bcaa +5 g leucine + 5g creatine+ 20 g whey + 20 g casien
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: candidizzle on June 22, 2008, 06:15:41 PM
good post.
thanks !
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: candidizzle on June 22, 2008, 06:17:22 PM
and maybe consider some safflower oil ! LOL !
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: Go 4 It on June 23, 2008, 07:26:38 AM
how about 3 g bcaa +5 g leucine + 5g creatine+ 20 g whey + 20 g casien

So no carbs at all post workout? No waxymaize, dextrose, maltodex, vitargo?
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: Necrosis on June 23, 2008, 07:38:59 AM
So no carbs at all post workout? No waxymaize, dextrose, maltodex, vitargo?

vitargo may be beneficial, with its unique GI and insuligenic properties. Dextrose etc nope. Sugar is a toxic substance, super quick insulin release with hypoglycemia to follow, not to mention immunosuppression, oxidants etc..

i would have mostly complex carbs all day for my meals, you wil gain much more size with this then adding in glucose.
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: Go 4 It on June 23, 2008, 07:42:06 AM
vitargo may be beneficial, with its unique GI and insuligenic properties. Dextrose etc nope. Sugar is a toxic substance, super quick insulin release with hypoglycemia to follow, not to mention immunosuppression, oxidants etc..

i would have mostly complex carbs all day for my meals, you wil gain much more size with this then adding in glucose.

So what would you suggest then a couple scoops of isolate in water?? Does it matter then if I eat complex carbs then directly post workout?
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: Bobby on June 23, 2008, 07:45:36 AM
40-80g carbs from dextrose + 40g protein of whey
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: d0nny2600 on June 23, 2008, 07:52:49 AM
and maybe consider some safflower oil ! LOL !
Candidizzle your posts/information you are posting is getting better and better. Props!
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: candidizzle on June 23, 2008, 08:31:49 AM
40-80g carbs from dextrose + 40g protein of whey
hey bro if you want to do the simpl carbs post workout thats cool, but i dont think your ever going to need 80 grams of carbs. MAYBE, if you did quads+hams+calves and kicked major ass on all of them then did some cardio.....   other wise i am pretty sure you wont be depleting anywhere near that much glycogen.
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: Bobby on June 23, 2008, 12:27:51 PM
hey bro if you want to do the simpl carbs post workout thats cool, but i dont think your ever going to need 80 grams of carbs. MAYBE, if you did quads+hams+calves and kicked major ass on all of them then did some cardio.....   other wise i am pretty sure you wont be depleting anywhere near that much glycogen.

Really? there are tons of ppl that recommend a 2:1 carb/protein ratio and 1:1 if dieting...

Do you think the body can absorb all of the 40g wheyprotein at once? or will some go to waste..
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: candidizzle on June 23, 2008, 01:50:34 PM
Really? there are tons of ppl that recommend a 2:1 carb/protein ratio and 1:1 if dieting...

Do you think the body can absorb all of the 40g wheyprotein at once? or will some go to waste..
for sure i think the body can ABSORB 40 grams of whey protein. the question is does it NEED that much whey protien ? personally, i dont think so.  i am a huge believe in high protein intake and eating TONS of meat throughout the day. but whey protein is a different kind of protein, really. the major difference is DIGESTION RATE. whole meats take a lloooonnnngggg time to digest and provide a slow small steady stream of amino acids into the blood stream. whereas whey protein is "pre digested" and it all enters the blood stream at one time.  i doubt you will ever benefit from more than 20-30 grams of whey protein concentrated in the blood stream at any one time. at least, not unless you have a LBM of 220+.

but if you are a "hard gainer", maybe go ahead and take the 40 grams of whey.


as for the 2=1 carb to protein ratio... (1=1 when dieting).... there is just simply ZERO evidence to support that theory and nothing to make me think drinking simple sugars post workout is going t do anything for growth.
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: Bobby on June 23, 2008, 02:35:45 PM
What do you take pwo?
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: candidizzle on June 23, 2008, 02:50:46 PM
What do you take pwo?
i just drink about 20 grams whey
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: Bobby on June 23, 2008, 03:25:09 PM
why no carb? did u not watch the milos seminar?
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: candidizzle on June 23, 2008, 03:52:48 PM
yeah

i outlined why no carbs earlier in the thread

basically, even if i was in off season mode, i see  no reason toconsume any liquid sugars. there is no benefit and it doesnt make you grow faster. so to me, post workout carbs (like dextrose or waxy) are uneccesary calories that mess with insulin sensitivity..    ill eat some black beans or ezekiel bread along with some chicken or turkey or tuna or steak about 45 mins post workout when im looking for mass.

right now though, im burning fat. so im more worried about being anti-catabolic than being anabolic.
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: mental_masturbator on June 24, 2008, 03:15:13 AM
Just my 2 cents...100 g maltodextrin : 30 g whey (and 10g fructose sweetner) always seemed to work fine for me.  Working out is usually the last the last thing I do before sleep and drinking this has helped me feel much better the following morning.  When I cut the carb's down to say less 50g in the drink, I feel like warmed-over dog doo-doo.  Weird, no? 
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: Team Diver on June 25, 2008, 07:23:29 AM
So why do "they" say for decades that you need quick carbs post workout?
It's the dextrose-lobby?!
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: temper35 on June 26, 2008, 10:24:09 AM
yeah

i outlined why no carbs earlier in the thread

basically, even if i was in off season mode, i see  no reason toconsume any liquid sugars. there is no benefit and it doesnt make you grow faster. so to me, post workout carbs (like dextrose or waxy) are uneccesary calories that mess with insulin sensitivity..    ill eat some black beans or ezekiel bread along with some chicken or turkey or tuna or steak about 45 mins post workout when im looking for mass.

right now though, im burning fat. so im more worried about being anti-catabolic than being anabolic.

What about just BCAA's post workout?  Wouldn't that essentially be the same thing as 20g protein?
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: Necrosis on June 26, 2008, 10:31:11 AM
So why do "they" say for decades that you need quick carbs post workout?
It's the dextrose-lobby?!

non sequitor
Title: Re: Simple carbs after workout,, HOW MANY?
Post by: candidizzle on June 26, 2008, 12:17:43 PM
What about just BCAA's post workout?  Wouldn't that essentially be the same thing as 20g protein?
no, you need all the essential amino acids on order to synthesis protein. but adding in extra bcaa's is a good idea.