Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: webcake on July 02, 2008, 12:33:34 AM
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Ok, here it is.
Im thinking of dropping all flat benching from my chest workout.
I do:
DB inclines (sometimes incline flyes inbetween sets)
Flat flyes
Dips
I ask because after my sets of inclines, it always seems that my pushing strength is almost gone and that im not moving much weight at all on flat presses. Not to mention that it always seems like any flat press, for me, hits the anterior deltoid head more-so than pecs.
I love flyes, and honestly feel like they do more for me than flat presses. So im hitting upper pecs with inclines, mid pecs with flyes and lower pecs with dips (and i know some people argue that you can't hit different parts of the pecs, but lets not get into that)
So, opinions?...
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Go for it broseph.
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I stopped benching a while ago and my chest looks better than ever.
Some people respond great to the exercise,others don`t and most ego lifters blow out their shoulders by going too heavy too often.
People have to realize,that most of us mere mortals are never going to bench 400 pounds just because others are able to.
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why not
i'd put flyes at the end though
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I stopped benching a while ago and my chest looks better than ever.
Some people respond great to the exercise,others don`t and most ego lifters blow out their shoulders by going too heavy too often.
Yes.
If your body responds well to flat bench work, there’s no reason to omit it.
But if you notice better results from other movements, then make those your primary exercises, throwing flat work in maybe about once a month or so just for something different.
One thing I love regularly doing is to adjust the bench I'm using to a lower incline position – something just marginally above flat. This changes the angle a bit from a typical incline pressing position, but still works those upper pec fibers.
I will then sometimes move onto incline Hammer Strength presses, or that slight incline may be my only incline work for that session.
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a 30 degree incline is probably all bodybuilders need for pec development.
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whatever works best for you playa !
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nothing wrong with flat benches, you're probably performing them wrong if you have shoulder issues.
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I haven't done flat presses on anything but machines in months. In fact all I'm doing now is incline bb, incline db, and bodyweight dips, and I've never felt better. I can't do flat presses worth a shit, I can do more on incline movements actually.
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nothing wrong with flat benches, you're probably performing them wrong if you have shoulder issues.
Exactly.
I've benched HEAVY for almost 10 years, no problems.
My shoulders bother me when doing Incline BB press though...hmmm
I think most guys have no idea how to properly flat bench. i can do flat bench only and my entire chest is sore as hell, but i understand how to contract my chest correctly.
8)
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if any of your joints hurt doing the big 3, you've either got genetically bad joints or you're doing it way wrong.
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IF IT WORKS FOR ME ITS GOTTA WORK FOR YOU !!!!
A BUG GUY WHO WAS INTIMIDATING ME TOLD ME ONLY PUSSY'S DONT DO FLAT BENCH, SO DO FLAT BENCH !!!
;D
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i did chest today my routine was
dips 6 sets
incline bench 4 sets
thats it
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i did chest today my routine was
dips 6 sets
incline bench 4 sets
thats it
last couple chest routines for me was like this
cable crossovers 4 sets
cable cross overs from the lowest notch 4 sets
incline press 4 sets
flat bench 4 sets
decline press 4 sets
cable crossovers 4 sets
cable crossovers from the lowest notch 4 sets
8)
my chest loves volume
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Exactly.
I've benched HEAVY for almost 10 years, no problems.
My shoulders bother me when doing Incline BB press though...hmmm
I think most guys have no idea how to properly flat bench. i can do flat bench only and my entire chest is sore as hell, but i understand how to contract my chest correctly.
8)
The problem with this analysis is the assumption that if you personally don't have issues, then no one else will. The world's bigger than that perspective. I completely agree with avoidance of flat benches if they're not doing much. Not necessarily anything to do with form, could be anything else including biomechanics and how some are put together differently than others, both in terms of the effectiveness of the exercise and injury risk potential. *If* benches are done the absolutely best way possible they become more of an isolation exercise anyway, taking more of the secondary muscles out of it and making it less of a compound exercise.
IMO even some who swear by benches could probably do as well or better with other exercises, but will never know because benches are never removed from the equation.
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last couple chest routines for me was like this
cable crossovers 4 sets
cable cross overs from the lowest notch 4 sets
incline press 4 sets
flat bench 4 sets
decline press 4 sets
cable crossovers 4 sets
cable crossovers from the lowest notch 4 sets
8)
my chest loves volume
Holy volume Batman. Please tell me that is all you do on that day and you put delts at the end of the week.
A couple things for the poster. 1) If you do inclines first your pressing strength will be a little sapped anyways 2) you might be doing them wrong but if you'd rather do the routine you posted then go for it because you are hitting the entire chest. Try it and see what happens.
For some reason hitting incline first never worked well for me. I could always press as much or more after hitting flat bench first.
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Holy volume Batman. Please tell me that is all you do on that day and you put delts at the end of the week.
chest day is chest day. nothing else. chest = monday / delts = friday. i always had a very weak chest and ive found that the ONLY kind of training that puts any thickness into my pecs is HIGH volume HIGH intensity HEAVY weight
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ok cool, some good replys/suggestions.
I think i should point out that im not having any shoulder issues (no pain or anything) just that it seems to hit my front delts as much as it does pecs. And im talking Barbell here. DB isnt so bad. And i know most people say this, but i think my form is almost perfect. I just believe that some people aren't sited to flat benching. If i start my workout with flat (db) then im sweet, but then my inclines suffer as a result. And i want to hit my upper pecs more.
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The problem with this analysis is the assumption that if you personally don't have issues, then no one else will. The world's bigger than that perspective. I completely agree with avoidance of flat benches if they're not doing much. Not necessarily anything to do with form, could be anything else including biomechanics and how some are put together differently than others, both in terms of the effectiveness of the exercise and injury risk potential. *If* benches are done the absolutely best way possible they become more of an isolation exercise anyway, taking more of the secondary muscles out of it and making it less of a compound exercise.
IMO even some who swear by benches could probably do as well or better with other exercises, but will never know because benches are never removed from the equation.
ANY movement can injure you, most of the time it is caused by A. Bad form B. not warming up properly C. severe overuse of that joint...<---most common in the shoulder.
Think of how many exercises use the rotator cuff...any press or pull. to solo flat bench out is flat out stupid. flat bench might aggravate the shoulder, but i doubt it's the root of the issues. military press can be the most devastating...want some studies? i have about 50 if you have the time to actually read them.
Flat bench does, however, increase the chance of a pec tear due to biomechanics. so i do agree it is a dangerous exercise for some people.
PLEASE don't try to start the flat bench isolation theory bullshit, it's impossible for any human. ANY pressing movement involves the shoulders and triceps, as well as many other muscles.
Is this why you use a Bowflex? i'm serious, not knocking you at all.
EDIT - i do have shoulder issues, they only bother me during incline presses and laterals. but they feel great when i'm benching.
8)
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no need for the personal attack, benches work better for some than others and i think that's all pumpster was trying to say.
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benches work better for some than others and i think that's all pumpster was trying to say.
Wrong.
If you are a human, you will respond to any form of benching. Some just don't respond as well, due to bad form or doing 1/4 reps.
8)
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Wrong.
If you are a human, you will respond to any form of benching. Some just don't respond as well, due to bad form or doing 1/4 reps.
8)
Better just to speak for yourself instead of making blanket pronouncements that are so easily destroyed with just a few examples, you'll be more credible. Some guys who have been injured, who never bother with bench anymore such as chick and myself, did nothing wrong in terms of form. Consider yourself lucky (and oblivious, obviously) that you've been blessed with good genetics.
FYI since it's highly unlikely to have occured to you to try long enough to find out, someone with good genetics could do any number of chest exercises aside from BB benches-flys, weighted pushups and/or DB presses and get as good or better results.
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but i think my form is almost perfect. I just believe that some people aren't sited to flat benching. If i start my workout with flat (db) then im sweet, but then my inclines suffer as a result. And i want to hit my upper pecs more.
Exactly. And some here like to presume for others lol
Agree fully on DBs instead, the greater ROM seems to hit the muscles better and is definitely easier on the joints.
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psst. pumpster. DB press counts as a bench. since you're an "expert" i figured you'd realize that. ::)
anyway, once again, if your shoulders/elbows hurt from benching, either your joints are made of graham crackers or you're doing it wrong. end of story. anyone, ANYONE can bench heavy if their form is fixed. i've done it for at least a dozen people who asked me for help with their benches.
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Better just to speak for yourself instead of making blanket pronouncements that are so easily destroyed with just a few examples, you'll be more credible. Some guys who have been injured, who never bother with bench anymore such as chick and myself, did nothing wrong in terms of form. Consider yourself lucky (and oblivious, obviously) that you've been blessed with good genetics.
FYI since it's highly unlikely to have occured to you to try long enough to find out, someone with good genetics could do any number of chest exercises aside from BB benches-flys, weighted pushups and/or DB presses and get as good or better results.
FYI - i've competed on the highest level of the NPC and USAPL powerlifting...i've tried it ALL. you have never even stepped on a stage.
You are the one with blanket statements dude. I am posting from experience, i have trained HUNDREDS of guys in the last 10 years, all agree with me. the top strength coaches in the WORLD follow protocols similar to mine, they must be idiots as well.
I'm done argueing, i will LET you have your board back. it's quite obvious that people who have studied the human body have no place here.
You actually think a guys form is perfect because the guy says so on the internet!...lol...try training in a gym and see how many guys use good form. maybe 1 out of 50 guys use proper form, but that's just my experience from training with world class bodybuilders and power lifters...my mistake.
You have ZERO knowledge of anatomy or biomechanics. I've studied EVERY point on the human body, don't get me started.
The old man using a bowflex compares himself to Chick...chick flat benched for a LOOOONG time and i bet his shoulder issues weren't caused ONLY by flat bench. how many 40 year old me do you know that DON'T have shoulder problems? my dad's shoulders are fucked and he hasn't touched a weight in 15 years. must be flat bench MANIA!!! ;D
I guess Ronnie is just fooling himself by doing flat bench. same goes for Branch and Jonnie, two of the best chests in the history, not to mention Arnold.
ANSWER MY QUESTION - WHY DO YOU USE A BOWFLEX YET SPOUT OFF ALL THIS MUMBO JUMBO ON THE INTERNET?
have you actually pressed over 225 before? i'm serious dude, i'm trying to help you!
Whoever gave this guy Mod powers, probably never lifted weights...Sorry Ron, this guy is about as intelligent as a box of rocks.
Take care guys, as always, just PM me for advice. i'll stand down, i have work to do.
Delete this and you will prove my point AGAIN.
MELTDOWN! ;D
8)
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if you want to get the most from flat benches you have to set your body up correctly on the bench, pull your shoulders hard and keep them there, that will keep your chest up, if you can lift the weight off the racks yourself on your heavy sets i can almost gaurantee you that you're going to have problems and you're too close to the racks which is going to force you to lower the bar too high, also keep your elbows tucked.
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Ok, here it is.
Im thinking of dropping all flat benching from my chest workout.
I do:
DB inclines (sometimes incline flyes inbetween sets)
Flat flyes
Dips
I ask because after my sets of inclines, it always seems that my pushing strength is almost gone and that im not moving much weight at all on flat presses. Not to mention that it always seems like any flat press, for me, hits the anterior deltoid head more-so than pecs.
I love flyes, and honestly feel like they do more for me than flat presses. So im hitting upper pecs with inclines, mid pecs with flyes and lower pecs with dips (and i know some people argue that you can't hit different parts of the pecs, but lets not get into that)
So, opinions?...
you dont have to do flat bench presses, unless your into powerlifting. find the press you like the most and get brutally strong in that exercise.
id recommend you to try low incline bench presses. seems to be more gentle on the shoulders than the regular bench press (for most people)
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psst. pumpster. DB press counts as a bench. since you're an "expert" i figured you'd realize that. ::)
Psstt magoo needs new glasses, i made that point lol they're not the same and affect the joints and muscles differently, as i mentioned in detail easy-reader.
anyway, once again, if your shoulders/elbows hurt from benching, either your joints are made of graham crackers or you're doing it wrong. end of story. anyone, ANYONE can bench heavy if their form is fixed. i've done it for at least a dozen people who asked me for help with their benches.
Mr. know-it-all here, with more absolutist black and white generalizations.
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FYI - i've competed on the highest level of the NPC and USAPL powerlifting...i've tried it ALL. you have never even stepped on a stage.
You are the one with blanket statements dude. I am posting from experience, i have trained HUNDREDS of guys in the last 10 years, all agree with me. the top strength coaches in the WORLD follow protocols similar to mine, they must be idiots as well.
I'm done argueing, i will LET you have your board back. it's quite obvious that people who have studied the human body have no place here.
You actually think a guys form is perfect because the guy says so on the internet!...lol...try training in a gym and see how many guys use good form. maybe 1 out of 50 guys use proper form, but that's just my experience from training with world class bodybuilders and power lifters...my mistake.
You have ZERO knowledge of anatomy or biomechanics. I've studied EVERY point on the human body, don't get me started.
The old man using a bowflex compares himself to Chick...chick flat benched for a LOOOONG time and i bet his shoulder issues weren't caused ONLY by flat bench. how many 40 year old me do you know that DON'T have shoulder problems? my dad's shoulders are fucked and he hasn't touched a weight in 15 years. must be flat bench MANIA!!! ;D
I guess Ronnie is just fooling himself by doing flat bench. same goes for Branch and Jonnie, two of the best chests in the history, not to mention Arnold.
ANSWER MY QUESTION - WHY DO YOU USE A BOWFLEX YET SPOUT OFF ALL THIS MUMBO JUMBO ON THE INTERNET?
have you actually pressed over 225 before? i'm serious dude, i'm trying to help you!
Whoever gave this guy Mod powers, probably never lifted weights...Sorry Ron, this guy is about as intelligent as a box of rocks.
Take care guys, as always, just PM me for advice. i'll stand down, i have work to do.
Delete this and you will prove my point AGAIN.
MELTDOWN! ;D
8)
Man talk about melting down and spending too much time on it.
Bottom line you always resort to hissy fit personal attacks when your generalizations break down. ;D
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you dont have to do flat bench presses, unless your into powerlifting. find the press you like the most and get brutally strong in that exercise.
Exactly, some of the dudes here have the macho-man powerlifting mentality but don't see it, think that everyone should do as they do which is absurd.
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Man talk about melting down and spending too much time on it.
Bottom line you always resort to hissy fit personal attacks when your generalizations break down. ;D
you resort to deleting posts of people who disagree with you. for example: mine. even when i don't flame. you just delete them because you know i'm making you look foolish.
secondly, you argue against me because you claim to have more experience than i do. overload has more experience than you can ever hope, and has accomplished more both in strength training and bodybuilding. ergo, by YOUR logic, he is better suited.
you are STILL an anonymous face on a training board, surrounded by people who have backed up their claims (even my general nemesis candidizzle has been up front about his accomplishments and proven them). you? you're nothing.
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lots of presses always worked better for me than doing flies and isolation exercises from ten angles. if you normally do 3 sets of DB inclines and 3 sets of incline flies... do six sets of DB inclines.
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A wiser fella then myself once said? Stimulate, don't annihilate! For me it's three time's say every ten days.
Four movements.
barbell press, never flat!!!
dumbell press. flat included.
dumbell flye
dips
Crossovers are just good to look at yourself in the mirror! I switch the pressing angles everytime. I always start with a pressing movement. Second can definitey be flyes. Depending how busy the gym is? Never ever a machine. Oh WOW my hero! Can press four plates on the hammer strenght!
yes lee haney said that
but lee haney also always said that he liked to start and finish his workouts with a "ryhtmic" exercise... which is just what a movement like cable crossivers are
i have tried all kinds of differenet methods, ... HIT, high volume, heavy weights, pump training, all of it... this kind of routine i showed you is the only thing my chest will respond to
and while you might hear that cable crossovers dont build chest...ill tell you what... keeping them incorporated in every chest workout has seriously improved my chest. the secret is, for me at least, dont do the movement like a pussy! just because its cables doesnt mean its light and easy ! when i am doing these on my last sets i am using so much weight i can hardly keep my body firmly planted on the ground.. haha...
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listen to this guys advice on how to build a massive chest.
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I stopped benching a while ago and my chest looks better than ever.
Some people respond great to the exercise,others don`t and most ego lifters blow out their shoulders by going too heavy too often.
People have to realize,that most of us mere mortals are never going to bench 400 pounds just because others are able to.
you dont do any benching at all? Or just no flat benching??
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listen to this guys advice on how to build a massive chest.
hey squad ! :D nice to have you back
i see you still doing the whole "post 4 year old pictures he willingly showed to the forum and think its going to make him meltdown" routine
its a classic !
...."classic failure"
LOL !
love ya bud ! ;)
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a 30 degree incline is probably all bodybuilders need for pec development.
I agree 100%.
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i have tried all kinds of differenet methods, ... HIT, high volume, heavy weights, pump training, all of it... this kind of routine i showed you is the only thing my chest will respond to
a wise man once told me unless you've tried a routine for at least a year you can't say if it works or not.
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a wise man once told me unless you've tried a routine for at least a year you can't say if it works or not.
well since there are hundreds of different routines i invite you to try them all :D
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cable crossovers,,,,pec deck dumbells among other things improve yoru chest, but last time i check is how much you bench that matters not how matter your chest size is....
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i don't do flat bench as well.
i do inclines, declines, dips, flies, crossovers but never flat bench.
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i don't do flat bench as well.
i do inclines, declines, dips, flies, crossovers but never flat bench.
Yeah im glad i made the change. My chest feels great after a workout, whereas before, id feel it in my front delts just as much as pecs. Im just doing inclines, sometimes incline flyes, flat flyes and dips. I absolutely love flyes, my favourite exercise by far.
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Ok, here it is.
Im thinking of dropping all flat benching from my chest workout.
I do:
DB inclines (sometimes incline flyes inbetween sets)
Flat flyes
Dips
I ask because after my sets of inclines, it always seems that my pushing strength is almost gone and that im not moving much weight at all on flat presses. Not to mention that it always seems like any flat press, for me, hits the anterior deltoid head more-so than pecs.
I love flyes, and honestly feel like they do more for me than flat presses. So im hitting upper pecs with inclines, mid pecs with flyes and lower pecs with dips (and i know some people argue that you can't hit different parts of the pecs, but lets not get into that)
So, opinions?...
If you want to maximize a movement, stick to Incline DB presses for your pushing movement, then move on to a completly different movement like Flys...
The key is to keep it fresh while still going up in weight so your body can't adapt in time.
Once you reach a certain level, doing two pressing movements concurrently will bring diminishing returns.
DIV
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i do
incline heavy db 4 sets
incline bb light 4 sets
flat db 3 sets
decline 3 sets
incline flys 4
flat flys 4
db pullover 3 sets
machine pec many
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i do
incline heavy db 4 sets
incline bb light 4 sets
flat db 3 sets
decline 3 sets
incline flys 4
flat flys 4
db pullover 3 sets
machine pec many
Holy Volume man!!
That seems like way too much...
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Holy Volume man!!
That seems like way too much...
Unless you're a hardgainer who needs it, I don't recommend that kind of volume.
I have never even trained someone who needed that kind of volume.
Lift heavy on your compound movements and you won't need that kind of volume either.
DIV
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cable crossovers,,,,pec deck dumbells among other things improve yoru chest, but last time i check is how much you bench that matters not how matter your chest size is....
lol ! good point ! very good point
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Unless you're a hardgainer who needs it, I don't recommend that kind of volume.
I have never even trained someone who needed that kind of volume.
Lift heavy on your compound movements and you won't need that kind of volume either.
DIV
I'm working all angles of chest with these exercises.
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I'm working all angles of chest with these exercises.
dude it is what works for you dont change it because someone else tells you its wrong.
number one priority = your body your training your progress !!!
not following whatothers say is correct
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Holy Volume man!!
That seems like way too much...
no really! My chest improved a lot doing this.
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no really! My chest improved a lot doing this.
Yeah everyone responds differently. I don't think that much volume is my type of training but everyones different...
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Go ahead and drop them. Flat benches are only usefull for beginners who have never lifted and not only will gain from just about any movement but need to work on their coordination as well. Concentrate on the heavy dumbell inclines with full range of motion, the bench and cable flyes, dips (weighted even better). Lately I have been using dips as a last movement in my chest workout combining them with the cybex pullover machine and have really felt a rib cage expansion and squarer look to my chest overall.