Dropping flat benches (both BB & DB) completely...

[webcake]

Ok, here it is.
Im thinking of dropping all flat benching from my chest workout.

I do:
DB inclines (sometimes incline flyes inbetween sets)
Flat flyes
Dips

I ask because after my sets of inclines, it always seems that my pushing strength is almost gone and that im not moving much weight at all on flat presses. Not to mention that it always seems like any flat press, for me, hits the anterior deltoid head more-so than pecs.

I love flyes, and honestly feel like they do more for me than flat presses. So im hitting upper pecs with inclines, mid pecs with flyes and lower pecs with dips (and i know some people argue that you can't hit different parts of the pecs, but lets not get into that)

So, opinions?...

[LatsMcGee]

Go for it broseph.

[wes]

I stopped benching a while ago and my chest looks better than ever.

Some people respond great to the exercise,others don`t and most ego lifters blow out their shoulders by going too heavy too often.

People have to realize,that most of us mere mortals are never going to bench 400 pounds just because others are able to.

[Bluto]

why not

i'd put flyes at the end though

[Montague]

I stopped benching a while ago and my chest looks better than ever.

Some people respond great to the exercise,others don`t and most ego lifters blow out their shoulders by going too heavy too often.

Yes.
If your body responds well to flat bench work, there’s no reason to omit it.
But if you notice better results from other movements, then make those your primary exercises, throwing flat work in maybe about once a month or so just for something different.

One thing I love regularly doing is to adjust the bench I'm using to a lower incline position – something just marginally above flat. This changes the angle a bit from a typical incline pressing position, but still works those upper pec fibers.
I will then sometimes move onto incline Hammer Strength presses, or that slight incline may be my only incline work for that session.

[MisterMagoo]

a 30 degree incline is probably all bodybuilders need for pec development.

[candidizzle]

whatever works best for you playa !

[WJ_Harley]

nothing wrong with flat benches, you're probably performing them wrong if you have shoulder issues.

[Zach Trowbridge]

I haven't done flat presses on anything but machines in months.  In fact all I'm doing now is incline bb, incline db, and bodyweight dips, and I've never felt better.  I can't do flat presses worth a shit, I can do more on incline movements actually.

[Overload]

nothing wrong with flat benches, you're probably performing them wrong if you have shoulder issues.

Exactly.

I've benched HEAVY for almost 10 years, no problems.

My shoulders bother me when doing Incline BB press though...hmmm

I think most guys have no idea how to properly flat bench. i can do flat bench only and my entire chest is sore as hell, but i understand how to contract my chest correctly.

[MisterMagoo]

if any of your joints hurt doing the big 3, you've either got genetically bad joints or you're doing it way wrong.

[candidizzle]

IF IT WORKS FOR ME ITS GOTTA WORK FOR YOU !!!!

A BUG GUY WHO WAS INTIMIDATING ME TOLD ME ONLY PUSSY'S DONT DO FLAT BENCH, SO DO FLAT BENCH !!!


 

[Bluto]

i did chest today my routine was

dips 6 sets

incline bench 4 sets

thats it

[candidizzle]

i did chest today my routine was

dips 6 sets

incline bench 4 sets

thats it

last couple chest routines for me was like this

cable crossovers 4 sets
cable cross overs from the lowest notch 4 sets
incline press 4 sets
flat bench 4 sets
decline press 4 sets
cable crossovers 4 sets
cable crossovers from the lowest notch 4 sets
 


my chest loves volume

[pumpster]

Exactly.

I've benched HEAVY for almost 10 years, no problems.

My shoulders bother me when doing Incline BB press though...hmmm

I think most guys have no idea how to properly flat bench. i can do flat bench only and my entire chest is sore as hell, but i understand how to contract my chest correctly.

The problem with this analysis is the assumption that if you personally don't have issues, then no one else will. The world's bigger than that perspective. I completely agree with avoidance of flat benches if they're not doing much. Not necessarily anything to do with form, could be anything else including biomechanics and how some are put together differently than others, both in terms of the effectiveness of the exercise and injury risk potential. *If* benches are done the absolutely best way possible they become more of an isolation exercise anyway, taking more of the secondary muscles out of it and making it less of a compound exercise.

IMO even some who swear by benches could probably do as well or better with other exercises, but will never know because benches are never removed from the equation.

[Cap]

last couple chest routines for me was like this

cable crossovers 4 sets
cable cross overs from the lowest notch 4 sets
incline press 4 sets
flat bench 4 sets
decline press 4 sets
cable crossovers 4 sets
cable crossovers from the lowest notch 4 sets
 


my chest loves volume

Holy volume Batman.  Please tell me that is all you do on that day and you put delts at the end of the week.


A couple things for the poster.  1) If you do inclines first your pressing strength will be a little sapped anyways 2) you might be doing them wrong but if you'd rather do the routine you posted then go for it because you are hitting the entire chest.  Try it and see what happens. 

For some reason hitting incline first never worked well for me.  I could always press as much or more after hitting flat bench first.

[candidizzle]

Holy volume Batman.  Please tell me that is all you do on that day and you put delts at the end of the week.

chest day is chest day. nothing else.  chest = monday / delts = friday.  i always had a very weak chest and ive found that the ONLY kind of training that puts any thickness into my pecs is HIGH volume HIGH intensity HEAVY weight

[webcake]

ok cool, some good replys/suggestions.

I think i should point out that im not having any shoulder issues (no pain or anything) just that it seems to hit my front delts as much as it does pecs. And im talking Barbell here. DB isnt so bad. And i know most people say this, but i think my form is almost perfect. I just believe that some people aren't sited to flat benching. If i start my workout with flat (db) then im sweet, but then my inclines suffer as a result. And i want to hit my upper pecs more.

[Overload]

The problem with this analysis is the assumption that if you personally don't have issues, then no one else will. The world's bigger than that perspective. I completely agree with avoidance of flat benches if they're not doing much. Not necessarily anything to do with form, could be anything else including biomechanics and how some are put together differently than others, both in terms of the effectiveness of the exercise and injury risk potential. *If* benches are done the absolutely best way possible they become more of an isolation exercise anyway, taking more of the secondary muscles out of it and making it less of a compound exercise.

IMO even some who swear by benches could probably do as well or better with other exercises, but will never know because benches are never removed from the equation.

ANY movement can injure you, most of the time it is caused by A. Bad form B. not warming up properly C. severe overuse of that joint...<---most common in the shoulder.

Think of how many exercises use the rotator cuff...any press or pull. to solo flat bench out is flat out stupid. flat bench might aggravate the shoulder, but i doubt it's the root of the issues. military press can be the most devastating...want some studies? i have about 50 if you have the time to actually read them.

Flat bench does, however, increase the chance of a pec tear due to biomechanics. so i do agree it is a dangerous exercise for some people.

PLEASE don't try to start the flat bench isolation theory bullshit, it's impossible for any human. ANY pressing movement involves the shoulders and triceps, as well as many other muscles.

Is this why you use a Bowflex? i'm serious, not knocking you at all.

EDIT - i do have shoulder issues, they only bother me during incline presses and laterals. but they feel great when i'm benching.

[WJ_Harley]

no need for the personal attack, benches work better for some than others and i think that's all pumpster was trying to say.

[Overload]

benches work better for some than others and i think that's all pumpster was trying to say.

Wrong.

If you are a human, you will respond to any form of benching. Some just don't respond as well, due to bad form or doing 1/4 reps.

[pumpster]

Wrong.

If you are a human, you will respond to any form of benching. Some just don't respond as well, due to bad form or doing 1/4 reps.

Better just to speak for yourself instead of making blanket pronouncements that are so easily destroyed with just a few examples, you'll be more credible. Some guys who have been injured, who never bother with bench anymore such as chick and myself, did nothing wrong in terms of form. Consider yourself lucky (and oblivious, obviously) that you've been blessed with good genetics.

FYI since it's highly unlikely to have occured to you to try long enough to find out, someone with good genetics could do any number of chest exercises aside from BB benches-flys, weighted pushups and/or DB presses and get as good or better results.

[pumpster]

but i think my form is almost perfect. I just believe that some people aren't sited to flat benching. If i start my workout with flat (db) then im sweet, but then my inclines suffer as a result. And i want to hit my upper pecs more.

Exactly. And some here like to presume for others lol

Agree fully on DBs instead, the greater ROM seems to hit the muscles better and is definitely easier on the joints.

[MisterMagoo]

psst. pumpster. DB press counts as a bench. since you're an "expert" i figured you'd realize that.

anyway, once again, if your shoulders/elbows hurt from benching, either your joints are made of graham crackers or you're doing it wrong. end of story. anyone, ANYONE can bench heavy if their form is fixed. i've done it for at least a dozen people who asked me for help with their benches.

[Overload]

Better just to speak for yourself instead of making blanket pronouncements that are so easily destroyed with just a few examples, you'll be more credible. Some guys who have been injured, who never bother with bench anymore such as chick and myself, did nothing wrong in terms of form. Consider yourself lucky (and oblivious, obviously) that you've been blessed with good genetics.

FYI since it's highly unlikely to have occured to you to try long enough to find out, someone with good genetics could do any number of chest exercises aside from BB benches-flys, weighted pushups and/or DB presses and get as good or better results.

FYI - i've competed on the highest level of the NPC and USAPL powerlifting...i've tried it ALL. you have never even stepped on a stage.

You are the one with blanket statements dude. I am posting from experience, i have trained HUNDREDS of guys in the last 10 years, all agree with me. the top strength coaches in the WORLD follow protocols similar to mine, they must be idiots as well.

I'm done argueing, i will LET you have your board back. it's quite obvious that people who have studied the human body have no place here.

You actually think a guys form is perfect because the guy says so on the internet!...lol...try training in a gym and see how many guys use good form. maybe 1 out of 50 guys use proper form, but that's just my experience from training with world class bodybuilders and power lifters...my mistake.

You have ZERO knowledge of anatomy or biomechanics. I've studied EVERY point on the human body, don't get me started.

The old man using a bowflex compares himself to Chick...chick flat benched for a LOOOONG time and i bet his shoulder issues weren't caused ONLY by flat bench. how many 40 year old me do you know that DON'T have shoulder problems? my dad's shoulders are fucked and he hasn't touched a weight in 15 years. must be flat bench MANIA!!!

I guess Ronnie is just fooling himself by doing flat bench. same goes for Branch and Jonnie, two of the best chests in the history, not to mention Arnold.

ANSWER MY QUESTION - WHY DO YOU USE A BOWFLEX YET SPOUT OFF ALL THIS MUMBO JUMBO ON THE INTERNET?

have you actually pressed over 225 before? i'm serious dude, i'm trying to help you!

Whoever gave this guy Mod powers, probably never lifted weights...Sorry Ron, this guy is about as intelligent as a box of rocks.

Take care guys, as always, just PM me for advice. i'll stand down, i have work to do.

Delete this and you will prove my point AGAIN.

MELTDOWN!