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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Hugo Chavez on July 24, 2008, 09:01:30 AM
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I don't know how many times I've seen here this tossed at the left: "Oh I thought Islam was the religion of peace" This is really funny when you think about it!!! Who is the main voice who stood in front of the country and told us that? A liberal group? NOOOOOOOO!!!! Infact it was George W. Bush!!!!! and I think Blair also said it. Liberals are not advocates for Islam, I have no idea where some of you got that notion. Infact they're much more likely to be members of groups advocating different liberations where that religion is concerned. Really not sure why you guys keep popping up with these things and going, "ah haa!!! Liberals, respond." Now do they advocate bombing the crap out of the whole nation in question to cure the problem, oh hell no, most liberals will believe all you'll do with that is further radicalise them, but we are not advocates of Islam. In fact there's quite a bit showing Islam now has a GREATER influence in Iraq! Well that worked out real well for you guys wanting to destroy Islam lololol...
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Well that worked out real well for you guys wanting to destroy Islam lololol...
buu..buut the war in iraq ws not a war against islam...gasp...noooo
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buu..buut the war in iraq ws not a war against islam...gasp...noooo
If that's what these guys posting had in mind, I don't think it worked out very well :D
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Well, Iraqi invasion isn't something I agreed with, nor was it associated with the destruction of islam.
The leftist apologists I speak of are multiculturalist appeasers. The type who will live in the lovel English countryside, whilst pushing for the idea of a multicultural society in the cities where the average Joe lives.
Sorry, you're taking Mr. Blair as a conservative? Wow, majour fuck up there.
Mr. Bliar is/was actually the head representative a the liberal socialites in the UK, title "Nu Labour".
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If that's what these guys posting had in mind, I don't think it worked out very well :D
see my point is..the war in iraq is viewed as a war on ISLAM by many muslims...and apparently..thats now the neocons see it also :-\
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see my point is..the war in iraq is viewed as a war on ISLAM by many muslims...and apparently..thats now the neocons see it also :-\
Personally, I have NEVER met ANYONE with that view.
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Well, Iraqi invasion isn't something I agreed with, nor was it associated with the destruction of islam.
The leftist apologists I speak of are multiculturalist appeasers. The type who will live in the lovel English countryside, whilst pushing for the idea of a multicultural society in the cities where the average Joe lives.
Sorry, you're taking Mr. Blair as a conservative? Wow, majour fuck up there.
Mr. Bliar is/was actually the head representative a the liberal socialites in the UK, title "Nu Labour".
I didn't say anything about Blair other than I think he said it at the same time Bush did making them the main voices behind the idea. What you just said doesn't really explain why Eldon and all these others get on here and post some heinous act by a Muslim and demand answers from the liberals. I really don't get that or why I would be expected to defend it. Especially where we're talking about liberals in America. I truly don't get it. because we oppose a war and the massive involvement in these countries, we get labeled Muslim apologists and you know it. The Iraq war may not have been a fight against Islam, well neocons constantly called it a front in the fight against radical Islam, so in part I guess to them it was. But at any rate, for those who take the antiwar liberals as Muslim apologists, the Iraq war makes a bad case for them. What I'm trying to say is there is no significant advocacy for Islam on the left. There are ideas of universal human rights on the left but it makes no sense to post a crime of Islam and challenge liberals to answer for it. And again, Bush was the main voice behind Islam being a religion of peace, not a liberal, a NEOCON which no doubt gave other neocons a bad headache.
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Personally, I have NEVER met ANYONE with that view.
lol... you must have forgot the whole thing where Bush compared himself to Churchill and this war to WWII and all the neocons took to the universal message that this was a war on radical Islam and Iraq was an important front in that fight. At the same time till now there have been no shortage of voices saying there is only one Islam, which is radical. Now you tell me how you've NEVER heard anyone with that view again?
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I didn't say anything about Blair other than I think he said it at the same time Bush did making them the main voices behind the idea. What you just said doesn't really explain why Eldon and all these others get on here and post some heinous act by a Muslim and demand answers from the liberals. I really don't get that or why I would be expected to defend it. Especially where we're talking about liberals in America. I truly don't get it. because we oppose a war and the massive involvement in these countries, we get labeled Muslim apologists and you know it. The Iraq war may not have been a fight against Islam, well neocons constantly called it a front in the fight against radical Islam, so in part I guess to them it was. But at any rate, for those who take the antiwar liberals as Muslim apologists, the Iraq war makes a bad case for them. What I'm trying to say is there is no significant advocacy for Islam on the left. There are ideas of universal human rights on the left but it makes no sense to post a crime of Islam and challenge liberals to answer for it. And again, Bush was the main voice behind Islam being a religion of peace, not a liberal, a NEOCON which no doubt gave other neocons a bad headache.
My own interpretation of their posting style is not because you apologise for islamism (undeniably Jag does) it's that some of these posts typify the act of disgusting slaughter in the name of islam.
I personally find it odd that such threads get no input outside of 4 posters...
lol... you must have forgot the whole thing where Bush compared himself to Churchill and this war to WWII and all the neocons took to the universal message that this was a war on radical Islam and Iraq was an important front in that fight. At the same time till now there have been no shortage of voices saying there is only one Islam, which is radical. Now you tell me how you've NEVER heard anyone with that view again?
No modern leader could even polish Churchill's shoes, let alone walk in them.
There is only one islam, I've gone through the core concept of islam with you numerous times. And yes, I am of the opinion that at the very core, islam is an evil ideology.
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Personally, I have NEVER met ANYONE with that view.
we all know u dont have any friends...
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At the same time till now there have been no shortage of voices saying there is only one Islam, which is radical. Now you tell me how you've NEVER heard anyone with that view again?
hell nordickbitch,bitchfury and eldon scream that on the religion ..errr anti islam board every day...
surprisingly the mods on the religion allow it.. :-\
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we all know u dont have any friends...
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hell nordickbitch,bitchfury and eldon scream that on the religion ..errr anti islam board every day...
surprisingly the mods on the religion allow it.. :-\
Disprove my assertions in my posts, I admit when I'm wrong.
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My own interpretation of their posting style is not because you apologise for islamism (undeniably Jag does) it's that some of these posts typify the act of disgusting slaughter in the name of islam.
I personally find it odd that such threads get no input outside of 4 posters...
No modern leader could even polish Churchill's shoes, let alone walk in them.
There is only one islam, I've gone through the core concept of islam with you numerous times. And yes, I am of the opinion that at the very core, islam is an evil ideology.
Ok, look, if you don't have liberals jump into these threads, is it any wonder? Neocons are constantly on tv telling us the evils of Islam and why the war is essential. They do this to align those angered by the acts behind the war. A war that liberals do not agree with. From this aspect, it is a neocon's favorite propaganda tool. Not shocking that liberals won't jump into a primary tool of the neocons and aid in it. That does not translate to liberal support of Islam. It translates to us not being tools.
And I have to mention again, which nobody does, that from the perspective of this being a war on radical islam, it is a failed policy and Iraq shows that. Islam is now stronger in that country than before the war. So this logic we hear by neocons, it's a joke.
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Ok, look, if you don't have liberals jump into these threads, is it any wonder? Neocons are constantly on tv telling us the evils of Islam and the war is essential. They do this to align those angered by the acts behind the war. A war that liberals do not agree with. From this aspect, it is a neocon's favorite propaganda tool. Not shocking that liberals won't jump into a primary tool of the neocons and aid in it. That does not translate to liberal support of Islam. It translates to us not being tools.
And I have to mention again, which nobody does, that from the perspective of this being a war on radical islam, it is a failed policy and Iraq shows that. Islam is now stronger in that country than before the war. So this logic we hear by neocons, it's a joke.
I don't agree with the war in Iraq.
You're making the liberals out as appeasers because you're saying they won't involve themselves in any debate on the topic of islam, solely due to the Iraq war and its neocon overtones?
Liberals can't debate islamic terrorist activities mutually exclusive of the war in Iraq simply due to the fact of neocon overtones?
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I don't agree with the war in Iraq.
You're making the liberals out as appeasers because you're saying they won't involve themselves in any debate on the topic of islam, solely due to the Iraq war and its neocon overtones?
Liberals can't debate islamic terrorist activities mutually exclusive of the war in Iraq simply due to the fact of neocon overtones?
that's not what I said, that's what you said. Please re-read what I said without the desire to spin it.
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Note the question marks.
I obviously need further explanation to get my head around your position.
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Note the question marks.
I obviously need further explanation to get my head around your position.
look, I don't think it's an intentional policy of a lefty to not address these things. When you've opposed the war for so long and watched guys like Savage and Hannity and prominint neocons and even the pentagon use radical events in Islam to gain support for the war, I merely say that it's no wonder a lefty might skip engaging in the stuff they see used as a propaganda tool to gain support for the war in that region. It's not that they're for it. It's that they probably don't have a big interest in being a tool to it. You have to admit, under that perspective, it's a thin line isn't it. To assign blame or equate it to approval is just outright wrong and that's where I'm coming from on it.
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Hugo what planet are you living on?
The EU which is comprised of the most left leaning and secular governments on earth have repeatedly gone on record to say Islam is a religion of peace publicly even after the Tube bombings in England, the Terrorist attack in Spain, the riots after the Mohammaed cartoons in Denmark, the murder of Theo Van Gogh in the netherlands, even after being stabbed by a muslim for being a homosexual- the former gay Mayor of Paris said exactly that. Paradoxically, the left joins hands with a religion that would exterminate the very fabric of liberal thought and all of its adherents. The reason why Bush and every other world leader has to go on record to say that is because either (A) They dont want left leaning douchebags and other victimization groups to accuse them of discriminating against Islam or (B) They have to say it because they care about the worlds perception ala choice (A) or (C) They are geniunenly brainwashed and delusional like most of Europe, all of Canada and half of America.
Before the invasion of Iraq, name your terrorist catastrophe from the first WTC bombings to the bombing of the USS cole, the American Embassy in Kenya, the numerous and almost daily terrorist attacks in Israel= All American heads of state have said Islam is a religion of peace
I could sit here all day and give you reasons why liberals are percieved the way they are, but heres a short list:
Liberals are anti Israel and staunch supporters of palastine. Liberals constantly and consistently blame terrorism on hopelessness and depression brought on by external economic factors, a lack of education and American foreign policy. Meanwhile all the Tube bombers in Brittain were middle class & college educated, Osama's number 2 is a doctor, many of the 911 hijackers were college educated and middle class etc. etc.
Liberals scramble to make sure suspected terrorists get the same rights as American citizens.
The same liberal wackjobs in California for the 9th circuit court of appeals that handed down a decision taking God out of the pledge of allegance, approved "Muslim Week" in a public school where children were forced to learn muslim prayers, dress in Muslim garb and give up sweets for Ramadan- Eklund v. Byron Union School District
The reason why liberals are labeled muslim apologists is two fold: (1) Most liberals despise the Judeo-Christian traditions of this country (2) Most liberals have an irrational and blinding hatred of the Bush administration to the point where they take the emotional rather than logical view- An enemy of my enemy is my friend. -- This is paradoxical and remarkable because if the Muslims had their way, they would convert us or kill us all as the Koran commands.- Liberals wonder why they hate us, and the answer is that the "US" they hate is mainly the liberal way of thinking- Gay marriage, abortion, Hollywood, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, sexual freedom, etc.--
Say what you will about the Neo-Cons, but they understand what we are dealing with. The leftist delusion existed long before the Iraq war and will continue long after the war is over.
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Not sure who this guy is, but welcome to the board... ;D
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Does this look peaceful to you Hugo? Remember, the Koran justifies beheading infidels, so this is ok in the eyes of Muslims. Nevermind the fact that these guys weren't soldiers. They were people who happened to be working in Iraq.
(http://drinkthis.typepad.com/main/images/beheading.jpeg)
(http://drinkthis.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/bigley_2.jpg)
And it wasn't George who gave Islam that name. It was the imams and shieks who have been claiming it for years while holding radical sermons at night preaching terrorism and jihad. Hugo what planet are you living on?
The EU which is comprised of the most left leaning and secular governments on earth have repeatedly gone on record to say Islam is a religion of peace publicly even after the Tube bombings in England, the Terrorist attack in Spain, the riots after the Mohammaed cartoons in Denmark, the murder of Theo Van Gogh in the netherlands, even after being stabbed by a muslim for being a homosexual- the former gay Mayor of Paris said exactly that. Paradoxically, the left joins hands with a religion that would exterminate the very fabric of liberal thought and all of its adherents. The reason why Bush and every other world leader has to go on record to say that is because either (A) They dont want left leaning douchebags and other victimization groups to accuse them of discriminating against Islam or (B) They have to say it because they care about the worlds perception ala choice (A) or (C) They are geniunenly brainwashed and delusional like most of Europe, all of Canada and half of America.
Before the invasion of Iraq, name your terrorist catastrophe from the first WTC bombings to the bombing of the USS cole, the American Embassy in Kenya, the numerous and almost daily terrorist attacks in Israel= All American heads of state have said Islam is a religion of peace
I could sit here all day and give you reasons why liberals are percieved the way they are, but heres a short list:
Liberals are anti Israel and staunch supporters of palastine. Liberals constantly and consistently blame terrorism on hopelessness and depression brought on by external economic factors, a lack of education and American foreign policy. Meanwhile all the Tube bombers in Brittain were middle class & college educated, Osama's number 2 is a doctor, many of the 911 hijackers were college educated and middle class etc. etc.
Liberals scramble to make sure suspected terrorists get the same rights as American citizens.
The same liberal wackjobs in California for the 9th circuit court of appeals that handed down a decision taking God out of the pledge of allegance, approved "Muslim Week" in a public school where children were forced to learn muslim prayers, dress in Muslim garb and give up sweets for Ramadan- Eklund v. Byron Union School District
The reason why liberals are labeled muslim apologists is two fold: (1) Most liberals despise the Judeo-Christian traditions of this country (2) Most liberals have an irrational and blinding hatred of the Bush administration to the point where they take the emotional rather than logical view- An enemy of my enemy is my friend. -- This is paradoxical and remarkable because if the Muslims had their way, they would convert us or kill us all as the Koran commands.- Liberals wonder why they hate us, and the answer is that the "US" they hate is mainly the liberal way of thinking- Gay marriage, abortion, Hollywood, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, sexual freedom, etc.--
Say what you will about the Neo-Cons, but they understand what we are dealing with. The leftist delusion existed long before the Iraq war and will continue long after the war is over.
This is a great post. Liberal views are great in some instances. Full blown liberalism translating into the condoning, endorsing and justifying of beheading, terrorism and jihad is completely horseshit, however.
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Does this look peaceful to you Hugo?
I guess you didn't read the thread.
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I guess you didn't read the thread.
Not enough to care about reading your retarded post.
There were liberals on here claiming that the smashing of a 4 year old girl's head was for Israeli gain and continue to justify, condone and endorse terrorism. ::)
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Hugo what planet are you living on?
The EU which is comprised of the most left leaning and secular governments on earth have repeatedly gone on record to say Islam is a religion of peace publicly even after the Tube bombings in England, the Terrorist attack in Spain, the riots after the Mohammaed cartoons in Denmark, the murder of Theo Van Gogh in the netherlands, even after being stabbed by a muslim for being a homosexual- the former gay Mayor of Paris said exactly that. Paradoxically, the left joins hands with a religion that would exterminate the very fabric of liberal thought and all of its adherents. The reason why Bush and every other world leader has to go on record to say that is because either (A) They dont want left leaning douchebags and other victimization groups to accuse them of discriminating against Islam or (B) They have to say it because they care about the worlds perception ala choice (A) or (C) They are geniunenly brainwashed and delusional like most of Europe, all of Canada and half of America.
Before the invasion of Iraq, name your terrorist catastrophe from the first WTC bombings to the bombing of the USS cole, the American Embassy in Kenya, the numerous and almost daily terrorist attacks in Israel= All American heads of state have said Islam is a religion of peace
I could sit here all day and give you reasons why liberals are percieved the way they are, but heres a short list:
Liberals are anti Israel and staunch supporters of palastine. Liberals constantly and consistently blame terrorism on hopelessness and depression brought on by external economic factors, a lack of education and American foreign policy. Meanwhile all the Tube bombers in Brittain were middle class & college educated, Osama's number 2 is a doctor, many of the 911 hijackers were college educated and middle class etc. etc.
Liberals scramble to make sure suspected terrorists get the same rights as American citizens.
The same liberal wackjobs in California for the 9th circuit court of appeals that handed down a decision taking God out of the pledge of allegance, approved "Muslim Week" in a public school where children were forced to learn muslim prayers, dress in Muslim garb and give up sweets for Ramadan- Eklund v. Byron Union School District
The reason why liberals are labeled muslim apologists is two fold: (1) Most liberals despise the Judeo-Christian traditions of this country (2) Most liberals have an irrational and blinding hatred of the Bush administration to the point where they take the emotional rather than logical view- An enemy of my enemy is my friend. -- This is paradoxical and remarkable because if the Muslims had their way, they would convert us or kill us all as the Koran commands.- Liberals wonder why they hate us, and the answer is that the "US" they hate is mainly the liberal way of thinking- Gay marriage, abortion, Hollywood, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, sexual freedom, etc.--
Say what you will about the Neo-Cons, but they understand what we are dealing with. The leftist delusion existed long before the Iraq war and will continue long after the war is over.
First, I am not an expert on the EU nor was I attempting to address any problems of europe as they relate to liberals and the "war on radical islam". Hedge is constantly telling us our idea of liberal is alien to liberal as defined in Europe. Second, and there you guys go yet again, if I had a dime for everytime some clown equates being anti-zionist with being pro muslim ::) That's really stupid logic. And the reason why we care about rights is not to save a terrorist, it's for you and me. At least you owned up to what you are. A neocon... Hi, the people think you suck ;) You have conservatives fuming, most of the people in the middle hate you and the left thinks you're a bunch of fucking psychos... but they understand what the rest of us don't hahahahaha... Oh they've really gotten it right so far lololol...
welcom to the board.
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Not enough to care about reading your retarded post.
There were liberals on here claiming that the smashing of a 4 year old girl's head was for Israeli gain and continue to justify, condone and endorse terrorism. ::)
If you're not going to read what I'm saying and from what you typed you didn't even try, you probably don't have much credit in your attack of my ideas you didn't read ::) but whatever makes you happy.
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If you're not going to read what I'm saying and from what you typed you didn't even try, you probably don't have much credit in your attack of my ideas you didn't read ::) but whatever makes you happy.
Read it after your post and luckily everything I posted was fine.
By the way, your shitty little digs in that post were hilarious and only prove what everyone has been saying. It's cute that you've been making these threads about Islam trying to deflect the heat from your apologist stance and the fact that you avoid and never refute any thread that validly makes a point about Islam, while instead trying to make a joke out of it and starting other threads like "Crusade."
Keep it up though, it's looking good! You and Jag make a great team!
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Not enough to care about reading your retarded post.
There were liberals on here claiming that the smashing of a 4 year old girl's head was for Israeli gain and continue to justify, condone and endorse terrorism. ::)
Anyone who has followed this stuff for any length of time knows the lies and propaganda that fly both ways. You're an idiot if you think Israel is totally innocent and has all along played on the level. Now I know you and your stupid logic will say that means I'm siding with the Arabs... NOT!!! It takes two. Liberals do not justify, condone or endorse terror, you just sound like an idiot saying that shit.
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Anyone who has followed this stuff for any length of time knows the lies and propaganda that fly both ways. You're an idiot if you think Israel is totally innocent and has all along played on the level. Now I know you and your stupid logic will say that means I'm siding with the Arabs... NOT!!! It takes two. Liberals do not justiy, condone or endose terror, you just sound like an idiot saying that shit.
No? Jag has been justifying terrorism for months on here. A host of other "liberals" as well. I've never said Israel is innocent, but I found it hilarious when people tried to justify the launching of 2,000+ rockets (several thousand more mortars and rpgs) at an Israeli town across the border while claiming that Hamas doesn't target civilians. THAT is apologist bullshit.
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Read it after your post and luckily everything I posted was fine.
By the way, your shitty little digs in that post were hilarious and only prove what everyone has been saying. It's cute that you've been making these threads about Islam trying to deflect the heat from your apologist stance and the fact that you avoid and never refute any thread that validly makes a point about Islam, while instead trying to make a joke out of it and starting other threads like "Crusade."
Keep it up though, it's looking good! You and Jag make a great team!
Oh please ::) How you can jive "Does this look peaceful to you Hugo?" with what I said in this thread obviously means you didn't read anything I said. Bush and Blair are the fuckers that said that and I specifically said I have never said or thought that and you come at me with that? sure you read my posts ::)
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Oh please ::) How you can jive "Does this look peaceful to you Hugo?" with what I said in this thread obviously means you didn't read anything I said. Bush and Blair are the fuckers that said that and I specifically said I have never said or thought that and you come at me with that? sure you read my posts ::)
Hey dumb dumb, Bush and Blair didn't coin that term. Are you fucking retarded or something? I read your post, and it's still taking an apologist stab, albeit very sneakily.
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No? Jag has been justifying terrorism for months on here. A host of other "liberals" as well. I've never said Israel is innocent, but I found it hilarious when people tried to justify the launching of 2,000+ rockets (several thousand more mortars and rpgs) at an Israeli town across the border while claiming that Hamas doesn't target civilians. THAT is apologist bullshit.
Jag's a nutcase. I claim no responsiblity for what that clearly disturbed individual does. I mean come on, she's managed on alienating almost everyone on getbig. I do not and I do not know anyone who looks at that shit and attempts to justify it. I have no love of Islam, I never have. All those religions from that region are shit IMO. Islam being the worst of them.
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Hey dumb dumb, Bush and Blair didn't coin that term. Are you fucking retarded or something? I read your post, and it's still taking an apologist stab, albeit very sneakily.
I didn't say they coined it, I said they were the primary voice of it. At the height of those blaming Islam, Blair and Bush spoke about Islam being a peaceful religion. They were the biggest voice of that notion and that's a fact buddy.
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and I don't give a fuck about Islam, how the hell am I taking a sneaky approach in defending something I don't give a shit about ::)
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The EU which is comprised of the most left leaning and secular governments on earth...
Yeah, Austria, Italy, Spain, Poland, Portugal, Turkey, Bosnia, Romania, Slovakia....it's just a socialist party year 'round.
... have repeatedly gone on record to say Islam is a religion of peace publicly even after the Tube bombings in England, the Terrorist attack in Spain, the riots after the Mohammaed cartoons in Denmark, the murder of Theo Van Gogh in the netherlands, even after being stabbed by a muslim for being a homosexual- the former gay Mayor of Paris said exactly that. Paradoxically, the left joins hands with a religion that would exterminate the very fabric of liberal thought and all of its adherents. The reason why Bush and every other world leader has to go on record to say that is because either (A) They dont want left leaning douchebags and other victimization groups to accuse them of discriminating against Islam or (B) They have to say it because they care about the worlds perception ala choice (A) or (C) They are geniunenly brainwashed and delusional like most of Europe, all of Canada and half of America.
I'm not sure what to make of this mishmash of innuendo. I guess left-leaning mayors are gay and that left leaning douchebags are more worried about discrimination rather than the imminent threat of Islamic followers.
Before the invasion of Iraq, name your terrorist catastrophe from the first WTC bombings to the bombing of the USS cole, the American Embassy in Kenya, the numerous and almost daily terrorist attacks in Israel= All American heads of state have said Islam is a religion of peace
It's a religion.
"The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: "In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule." The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war." --GW Bush
Are you inferring that Bush is a liberal apologist b/c he caved on such a politically correct topic?
I could sit here all day and give you reasons why liberals are percieved the way they are, but heres a short list:
Liberals are anti Israel and staunch supporters of palastine. Liberals constantly and consistently blame terrorism on hopelessness and depression brought on by external economic factors, a lack of education and American foreign policy. Meanwhile all the Tube bombers in Brittain were middle class & college educated, Osama's number 2 is a doctor, many of the 911 hijackers were college educated and middle class etc. etc.
Liberals aren't anti-Israel. Are republicans anti-arab?
Liberals scramble to make sure suspected terrorists get the same rights as American citizens.
Since Pres. Bush made torture a usual practice of the USA, I would think it might concern you that innocent people might be getting tortured without at least a trial.
The same liberal wackjobs in California for the 9th circuit court of appeals that handed down a decision taking God out of the pledge of allegance, approved "Muslim Week" in a public school where children were forced to learn muslim prayers, dress in Muslim garb and give up sweets for Ramadan- Eklund v. Byron Union School District
Right wingers added "god" to the pledge so why not take 'god' out of the pledge? Or will god be angry?
The reason why liberals are labeled muslim apologists is two fold: (1) Most liberals despise the Judeo-Christian traditions of this country
So you polled liberals and came up with another baseless hate allegation?
(2) Most liberals have an irrational and blinding hatred of the Bush administration to the point where they take the emotional rather than logical view- An enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Bite my tongue, this 'blind hatred' is the cornerstone of your analysis. There are many objects for hatred of Bush including: the killing of btn 100,000 & 650,000 people, lying america to war, bungling the budget, bungling Katrina, bungling Medicare, bungling Soc. Sec., and on and on.
-- This is paradoxical and remarkable because if the Muslims had their way, they would convert us or kill us all as the Koran commands
.You mean like invading a country to change it's government to one of our choosing....like Iraq?
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I liked that movie :) Anyway, hope you enjoyed Bush and Blair really talking up what a peaceful religion Islam is. I for one have never thought such a thing which at the heart of why I made this post. I've not understood why I have been expected to defend it lol...
I didn't watch the video. I don't watch youtube videos unless they involve crazy shenanigans and clowns throwing pies at people's faces!
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Thanks for the welcome, but im not a Neocon at all. I dont think we should have invaded Iraq and I am not one of these homophobic overly religious types. However, now that we have invaded it is imperative we stay until a new government is in place and the Iraqi's can defend themselves for obvious reasons I feel would be a waste of words to actually type, but I think you can figure it out. I mainly am a libertarian.
Look, all you need to know about why American liberals are Muslim apologists is the insane belief that 911 was an inside job... Which is funny because most Muslims regardless of education in Europe and the middle east also feel the same way.
Liberalism in Europe is equivalent to the Village in NYC or the city of San Francisco or pretty much any liberal arts college in America. So, when you say the two aren't on the same level, I would ask what you define what the same level as?
The left thinking the right is psychotic demonstrates to me the right is doing something right ;)
PS- Bush got re-elected, thats all you need to know about the American peoples opinon of the left [ wait wait , i know, voter fraud right? lolol]
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I didn't watch the video. I don't watch youtube videos unless they involve crazy shenanigans and clowns throwing pies at people's faces!
Watch the fucking video coward >:( This is priceless, you want to have your point, but not read what I write or review material I present to defend against your statement. Fantastic...
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Thanks for the welcome, but im not a Neocon at all. I dont think we should have invaded Iraq and I am not one of these homophobic overly religious types. However, now that we have invaded it is imperative we stay until a new government is in place and the Iraqi's can defend themselves for obvious reasons I feel would be a waste of words to actually type, but I think you can figure it out. I mainly am a libertarian.
Look, all you need to know about why American liberals are Muslim apologists is the insane belief that 911 was an inside job... Which is funny because most Muslims regardless of education in Europe and the middle east also feel the same way.
Liberalism in Europe is equivalent to the Village in NYC or the city of San Francisco or pretty much any liberal arts college in America. So, when you say the two aren't on the same level, I would ask what you define what the same level as?
The left thinking the right is psychotic demonstrates to me the right is doing something right ;)
PS- Bush got re-elected, thats all you need to know about the American peoples opinon of the left [ wait wait , i know, voter fraud right? lolol]
According to the "liberals," EVERYTHING on this board is a conspiracy theory.
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According to the "liberals," EVERYTHING on this board is a conspiracy theory.
Everything ::) yea...
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hahahahaha.... man, I bet this just hurts ;D Bush and Blair and not a marching group of hippies ;)
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Why it would hurt? I'm not going to bother watching it because I couldn't care less as to what George Bush or his retard lackey Blair have to say. Why are you pushing something he said? I thought George Bush was a douche and everything he's done is a conspiracy theory?
Remember Hugo, EVERYTHING to you is a conspiracy theory.
I put my left sock on before my right this morning. CONSPIRACY THEORY. Death to Israel. Viva Islam. Heil Hitler!!!!! Gitmo detainee #3983 will be tortured today instead of #98379837!
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Hugo I told you, Bliar is a liberal socialist labourite.
He has the typical political make-up of what every hippy grows up believing.
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Why it would hurt? I'm not going to bother watching it because I couldn't care less as to what George Bush or his retard lackey Blair have to say. Why are you pushing something he said? I thought George Bush was a douche and everything he's done is a conspiracy theory?
Remember Hugo, EVERYTHING to you is a conspiracy theory.
I put my left sock on before my right this morning. CONSPIRACY THEORY. Death to Israel. Viva Islam. Heil Hitler!!!!! Gitmo detainee #3983 will be tortured today instead of #98379837!
Oh brother, you really don't get it ::) Why care? Why constantly toss the religion of peace thing at me when i don't even believe it is and infact two guys I hate, Bush and Blair were the main voices of that... but lets just blame liberals for it ::)
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Oh brother, you really don't get it ::) Why care? Why constantly toss the religion of peace thing at me when i don't even believe it is and infact two guys I hate, Bush and Blair were the main voices of that... but lets just blame liberals for it ::)
What aren't you getting?
You previously said you didn't mention Blair as to mean he was a conservative ???
Blair IS A LIBERAL.
FACT: Liberal socialism allowed the floodgates to be opened up in the EU for massive muslim immigration.
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Yeah, Austria, Italy, Spain, Poland, Portugal, Turkey, Bosnia, Romania, Slovakia....it's just a socialist party year 'round.==> Do you know anything about EU politics? Spain has a a very left wing socialist leaning head of state, Romania and Slovakia ( which are almost irrelevant to any conversation about anything involving world issues that matter) are also secular countries. Turkey was a very secular country until recently where the secular majority in government has now turned to about 50/50 for Islamists. Austria is secular as can be. Italy is somewhat more religious than the rest, but not by much.
I'm not sure what to make of this mishmash of innuendo. I guess left-leaning mayors are gay and that left leaning douchebags are more worried about discrimination rather than the imminent threat of Islamic followers.
It's a religion.==> What mishmash of innuendo? Its a listing of terrorist attacks and islam motivated acts of violence coupled with the response that was given by leaders in Europe. I never said left leaning mayors are gay, I said the former mayor of Paris WAS gay and WAS stabbed nearly to death in 2002 by a Muslim because he WAS gay.
"The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: "In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule." The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war." --GW Bush
Are you inferring that Bush is a liberal apologist b/c he caved on such a politically correct topic? No, I am not inferring anything. I am saying Bush said what he had to say because he didnt want to be percieved as demonizing an entire faith. How is that being a liberal apologist? Its called being a politician.
Liberals aren't anti-Israel. Are republicans anti-arab? ==> Ok, you clearly are not familiar with your history. Since the Israeli/ Palastine conflict began, the most vehemant supporters for the PLO outside of Muslims themselves have been the American and European left. If you support a group that wants to exterminate another group, push the other group into the sea and kill the other groups men, women and children, wouldn't you say your support is by proxy an ANTI position against that group? England had the territory ( there is no such thing as palastine), Israel founded the country, Israel went to war, won, and now year after year gives a little bit back while innocent Israeli's are maimed in the streets. No, I'd say Republicans are anti terrorism, not anti arab.
Since Pres. Bush made torture a usual practice of the USA, I would think it might concern you that innocent people might be getting tortured without at least a trial.=> A usual practice how? Please explain. Aliens "might" be monitoring this posting also. Let me get this straight, the Government should convict someone of crimes first, then torture them? You really are an idiot.
Right wingers added "god" to the pledge so why not take 'god' out of the pledge? Or will god be angry?==> WOW you clearly know nothing about American history. Im beginning to think I wasted my time arguing with someone of subpar intelligence. What right winger added God to the pledge a few hundred year ago?
So you polled liberals and came up with another baseless hate allegation?
Bite my tongue, this 'blind hatred' is the cornerstone of your analysis. There are many objects for hatred of Bush including: the killing of btn 100,000 & 650,000 people, lying america to war, bungling the budget, bungling Katrina, bungling Medicare, bungling Soc. Sec., and on and on.
.You mean like invading a country to change it's government to one of our choosing....like Iraq?
I didn't poll anyone, if you'd like I will give you precise facts, figures, court cases, links to news articles, etc. Your analysis is completely useless based on your last point. So, in your view, the Bush administration bungled Katrina, social security and Medicare- A natural disaster where inhabitants were given round the clock warnings for three days to evacuate and decided to stay ( My great uncle who was 86 years old and his wife managed to escape unharmed by the way) and two forms of government benefits that have existed for more than half a century? lololol Very astute points. Even if you claim the hatred isn't blind and there are reasons for hating him, how does that counteract the fact that the left hates Bush and everything he does whether right or wrong and wants to see America fail in Iraq?
[/quote]
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Hugo I told you, Bliar is a liberal socialist labourite.
He has the typical political make-up of what every hippy grows up believing.
That's your fucking opinion... The liberals in America have no love for that guy after what he did. Bush also said it, is he what you guys call a liberal socialist labourite? When Blair said that, was he not being a lacky for the neocons? hahaha, even you guys over there were pissed like hell over it. So in regards to this matter.... ;) It was not a liberal voice saying this shit. It was Bush and Blair so I don't see why I get the blame for it. You fuckers always call me on this shit and I don't even believe it nor have I ever believed it's a religion of peace.
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What aren't you getting?
You previously said you didn't mention Blair as to mean he was a conservative ???
Blair IS A LIBERAL.
FACT: Liberal socialism allowed the floodgates to be opened up in the EU for massive muslim immigration.
quit putting words in my mouth... I said I didn't address it and I didn't. Again, Bush said it too. He infact stood on a stage with a bunch of muslims and said it first post 9/11 and then it was said several times and Blair signed on to support Bush and he was hated by the liberals for doing it. THAT'S A FUCKING FACT.
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That's your fucking opinion... The liberals in America have no love for that guy after what he did. Bush also said it, is he what you guys call a liberal socialist labourite? When Blair said that, was he not being a lacky for the neocons? hahaha, even you guys over there were pissed like hell over it. So in regards to this matter.... ;) It was not a liberal voice saying this shit. It was Bush and Blair so I don't see why I get the blame for it. You fuckers always call me on this shit and I don't even believe it nor have I ever believed it's a religion of peace.
Wait, so Bush isn't a conservative, it's just your opinion that he's a conservative?
FACT: Blair is a liberal.
I'm not blaming you for jack shit :-\
My quarrel is with EU liberal socialism.
You're playing victim hood pretty well mate, like a true muslim!
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You guys are just pissed because if you see the facts here, as conservatives have also seen, you'll be forced to see the true bad guys in these years have been the neocons, not liberals.
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Wait, so Bush isn't a conservative, it's just your opinion that he's a conservative?
FACT: Blair is a liberal.
I'm not blaming you for jack shit :-\
My quarrel is with EU liberal socialism.
You're playing victim hood pretty well mate, like a true muslim!
I guess I have to keep repeating myself until you stop saying I said something I didn't say. Bush is a neocon. Bush is not a conservative.
Here, please read this slowly until it sinks into your thick fucking skull:
Blair signed on to support Bush and he was hated by the liberals for doing it. THAT'S A FUCKING FACT.
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I guess I have to keep repeating myself until you stop saying I said something I didn't say. Bush is a neocon. Bush is not a conservative.
Here, please read this slowly until it sinks into your thick fucking skull:
Blair signed on to support Bush and he was hated by the liberals for doing it. THAT'S A FUCKING FACT.
OK,
By my point was about labelling. Blair IS a liberal.
Apparently me saying Blair is a liberal is an opinion ::)
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Nordic, if your quarrel is only with EU shit, why do you nail American Liberals for it? You always bring up that apologist crap and you've made posts calling us out on this crime or that. Our focus in this area is what's happening in the middle east and we don't think bombing the fuck out of a nation is the best fix, it is infact in our opinion, usually, that it serves to empower Islam, especially the more radical. Keep in mind this thread was not solely created because of you. There is BF and Eldon and others.
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OK,
By my point was about labelling. Blair IS a liberal.
Apparently me saying Blair is a liberal is an opinion ::)
no, failure to communicate. That's not what I'm saying!!!!!!!!!! But you sure in the fuck are also not listening to what I'm saying either. Again, I did not even address Blair as liberal or conservative and that's not what I meant by just your opinion, sorry. You seem to not give a rats ass about Bush's role in standing there telling us all, infact being a primary voice in telling us that Islam is the religion of peace. How am I supposed to get the blame for Blair, liberal or not, for signing on with Bush 100%. You seem to also want to ignore the fact that liberals turned on him for doing it!!!!
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Spain has a a very left wing socialist leaning head of state, Romania and Slovakia ( which are almost irrelevant to any conversation about anything involving world issues that matter) are also secular countries. Turkey was a very secular country until recently where the secular majority in government has now turned to about 50/50 for Islamists. Austria is secular as can be. Italy is somewhat more religious than the rest, but not by much.
Most countries, including the USA, are secular. Spain is not even close to being socialist so if its leader has 'leanings', they are hidden well.
What mishmash of innuendo? Its a listing of terrorist attacks and islam motivated acts of violence coupled with the response that was given by leaders in Europe. I never said left leaning mayors are gay, I said the former mayor of Paris WAS gay and WAS stabbed nearly to death in 2002 by a Muslim because he WAS gay.
So why are you bringing this stuff up? What are you trying to illustrate? Christians kill too. So do Buddhists and atheists.
I am saying Bush said what he had to say because he didnt want to be percieved as demonizing an entire faith. How is that being a liberal apologist? Its called being a politician.
When has Bush ever caved to political correctness? His trademark is to give a big "Fuck You" to his opponents. Jeez, his office is always telling the Congress to go screw itself.
Ok, you clearly are not familiar with your history. Since the Israeli/ Palastine conflict began, the most vehemant supporters for the PLO outside of Muslims themselves have been the American and European left. If you support a group that wants to exterminate another group, push the other group into the sea and kill the other groups men, women and children, wouldn't you say your support is by proxy an ANTI position against that group? England had the territory ( there is no such thing as palastine), Israel founded the country, Israel went to war, won, and now year after year gives a little bit back while innocent Israeli's are maimed in the streets. No, I'd say Republicans are anti terrorism, not anti arab.
This is simply not true. Check out this web site built by and for libertarians http://www.lewrockwell.com/ . They view, for the most part, Israel for what it is--a lapdog of the US.
A usual practice how? Please explain. Aliens "might" be monitoring this posting also. Let me get this straight, the Government should convict someone of crimes first, then torture them? You really are an idiot.
And you are a brilliant debater. I'm in awe.
The Government shouldn't torture at all. Have you been in a coma since 2001? Did you miss this? Bush Vetoes Bill Banning TortureSays CIA May Need To Use Harsh Interrogation Techniques That Critics Call Black Mark On America
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/08/national/main3919474.shtml
==> WOW you clearly know nothing about American history. Im beginning to think I wasted my time arguing with someone of subpar intelligence. What right winger added God to the pledge a few hundred year ago?
Did you ever pay attention in school son? I don't think so.
"The Knights of Columbus in New York City felt that the pledge was incomplete without any reference to a deity."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance_to_the_Flag_of_the_United_States#Addition_of_the_words_.22under_God.22
Right Wing Religious nutbags at the height of the McCarthy witch hunt took the initiative.
I didn't poll anyone, if you'd like I will give you precise facts, figures, court cases, links to news articles, etc. Your analysis is completely useless based on your last point. So, in your view, the Bush administration bungled Katrina, social security and Medicare- A natural disaster where inhabitants were given round the clock warnings for three days to evacuate and decided to stay ( My great uncle who was 86 years old and his wife managed to escape unharmed by the way) and two forms of government benefits that have existed for more than half a century? lololol Very astute points. Even if you claim the hatred isn't blind and there are reasons for hating him, how does that counteract the fact that the left hates Bush and everything he does whether right or wrong and wants to see America fail in Iraq?
Bush lied about Soc. Sec.'s solvency and tried portray it as a crisis which only privatization could fix (even though it did not even address the issue of SS's solvency). That's just like how Bush lied about the grave threat Iraq posed to the frightened USA. Bush's Medicare bill, which became law, was based on cooked numbers to make the overall cost of the program appear less than it was...and it stripped the gov. of the power to negotiate lower costs with the drug companies. I know where Bush's allegiance lies and it's not with the american people.
I don't care if the people of New Orleans were given round the clock warnings. How does that excuse the federal government's abysmal handling of the clean up?
Bush ordered the deaths of tens of thousands Iraqis under false pretenses. Do you admire him for that crime?
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Nordic, if your quarrel is only with EU shit, why do you nail American Liberals for it? You always bring up that apologist crap and you've made posts calling us out on this crime or that. Our focus in this area is what's happening in the middle east and we don't think bombing the fuck out of a nation is the best fix, it is infact in our opinion, usually, that it serves to empower Islam, especially the more radical. Keep in mind this thread was not solely created because of you. There is BF and Eldon and others.
I don't blame American liberals for shit ???
Got any quotations from me doing so? Also got any quotations of me calling on any country to be bombed?
no, failure to communicate. That's not what I'm saying!!!!!!!!!! But you sure in the fuck are also not listening to what I'm saying either. Again, I did not even address Blair as liberal or conservative and that's not what I meant by just your opinion, sorry. You seem to not give a rats ass about Bush's role in standing there telling us all, infact being a primary voice in telling us that Islam is the religion of peace. How am I supposed to get the blame for Blair, liberal or not, for signing on with Bush 100%. You seem to also want to ignore the fact that liberals turned on him for doing it!!!!
I don't hold anyone other than Bush or Blair responsible for what they've brought to the world.
Spain is not even close to being socialist so if its leader has 'leanings', they are hidden well.
Don't you think you should research who's the current ruling power in Spain? It's none other than the Spanish Socialist Workers' Party (PSOE).
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Once again I'll go in order, even though I'm starting to think wasting my time arguing with someone who is completely lost.
Most countries, including the USA, are secular. Spain is not even close to being socialist so if its leader has 'leanings', they are hidden well. ( See Nordics post above, do your reasearch)
So why are you bringing this stuff up? What are you trying to illustrate? Christians kill too. So do Buddhists and atheists. I am bringing it up because Hugo brought up what Bush said after 911 to show that what he said is identical to what leftist leaders have said after terror attacks. Christians and Buddists aren't blowing up trains with innocent people on them, threatening our national security and showing videos on the internet of beheadings are they?
When has Bush ever caved to political correctness? His trademark is to give a big "Fuck You" to his opponents. Jeez, his office is always telling the Congress to go screw itself. --> Ok, this is a silly emotional overture not grounded in fact or reality.
This is simply not true. Check out this web site built by and for libertarians http://www.lewrockwell.com/ . They view, for the most part, Israel for what it is--a lapdog of the US. --> No thanks I'd rather rely on actual historical facts, not a website designed for a particular political party. I dont need to be sucked in by propaganda. There are websites that fictionalize the real jews are black and that AIDS is a creation of the US government. That doesnt mean by and large I subscribe to their message.
The Government shouldn't torture at all. Have you been in a coma since 2001? Did you miss this? Bush Vetoes Bill Banning TortureSays CIA May Need To Use Harsh Interrogation Techniques That Critics Call Black Mark On America
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/08/national/main3919474.shtml
Did you ever pay attention in school son? I don't think so.==> Ok "son" I'll pay more attention in school. Maybe you should pay more attention to the stupidity coming from your fingers You wrote and I quote: Since Pres. Bush made torture a usual practice of the USA, I would think it might concern you that innocent people might be getting tortured without at least a trial.=>
^ Without at least a trial. Hmmmm... Ok there. Anyway I'm sure your answer to my next question will be tainted with emotion and stupidity, but how should government interegators treat terrorists they are trying to extract information from? Nicely? Should they go on beheadings together? Maybe smoke some hasish? Beat up some women for driving? Pray to Mecca together? Or should they extract the information by any means possible to prevent potential attacks and garner information? Wait dont answer that. " Bush Lied, all terrorists are innocent". What you neglect to mention or refuse acknowledge is that these animals dont torture Americans, they behead them, our forms of so called torture we use against them is an absolute joke ( playing heavy metal music, showing them pictures of naked women etc.) and the conditions they live in at Guantanamo are vastly better than the conditions from which 99% of those captured came from in the first place. Meanwhile liberals line up in the street to demand they have the same rights as an American citizen which is an absolute joke.
"The Knights of Columbus in New York City felt that the pledge was incomplete without any reference to a deity."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance_to_the_Flag_of_the_United_States#Addition_of_the_words_.22under_God.22
Right Wing Religious nutbags at the height of the McCarthy witch hunt took the initiative.==> What does this have to do with my point about teaching and proselytizing about the Muslim religion in CA public schools in clear violation of the establishment clause and free exercise clauses of the constitution while ruling that the word GOD in the pledge of alliegance was a violation? ( The Supreme court overturned the 9th circuits stupidity with the pledge, but refused to hear the appeal in Eklund v. Byron Unified School District)
Bush lied about Soc. Sec.'s solvency and tried portray it as a crisis which only privatization could fix (even though it did not even address the issue of SS's solvency). That's just like how Bush lied about the grave threat Iraq posed to the frightened USA. Bush's Medicare bill, which became law, was based on cooked numbers to make the overall cost of the program appear less than it was...and it stripped the gov. of the power to negotiate lower costs with the drug companies. I know where Bush's allegiance lies and it's not with the american people.==> Yawn, all the problems with SS and Medicaid were here long before he took office. All I see in this argument is more rhetoric without an ounce of fact to back up anything and more emotional nonsense.
I don't care if the people of New Orleans were given round the clock warnings. How does that excuse the federal government's abysmal handling of the clean up?==> The clean up? New Orleans is a city built under sea level, A Hurricaine destroyed the City, People were warned to evacuate and refused. The cleanup was a catastrophe. What exactly was Bush supposed to do? Use a magic weather machine to prevent Katrina from happenining? When people are too fucking stupid to listen to the governments orders to evacuate, the government is to blame? Actually, more precisely the President of the United States is to blame? Only a liberal could come up with such a stupid and pathetic argument.
Bush ordered the deaths of tens of thousands Iraqis under false pretenses. Do you admire him for that crime?
Another genius like argument. Yes, Bush ordered 10's of thousands of deaths. I am beginning to see arguing with you is like arguing with someone who has cerebral palsy.
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I don't blame American liberals for shit ???
Got any quotations from me doing so? Also got any quotations of me calling on any country to be bombed?
I don't hold anyone other than Bush or Blair responsible for what they've brought to the world.
Don't you think you should research who's the current ruling power in Spain? It's none other than the Spanish Socialist Workers' Party (PSOE).
did you completely miss the point of the thread too or are you saying you've never tossed that religion of peace crap at me like I was the one saying it in the first place? That was where I was at with the word "blame" in relation to the direct point of the thread. You are really a puzzle. A self proclaimed liberal who spends a lot of time attacking liberals.
I'm done anyway. clearly nobody gives a shit and the fun is actually in the attack for you fellas. It's never been that for me so it's sad that you all seem to have an almost vampuric lust of it.
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did you completely miss the point of the thread too or are you saying you've never tossed that religion of peace crap at me like I was the one saying it in the first place? That was where I was at with the word "blame" in relation to the direct point of the thread. You are really a puzzle. A self proclaimed liberal who spends a lot of time attacking liberals.
I'm done anyway. clearly nobody gives a shit and the fun is actually in the attack for you fellas. It's never been that for me so it's sad that you all seem to have an almost vampuric lust of it.
Sure I have when I see things in black and white and you see things in grey. I don't blame American liberals however. I will criticise far lefties and liberals on here individualy if they take an apologetic stance (Jag).
I do blame British liberal socialism for the downfall of society and terrorist threat in the UK (among other things).
Decker, do you still stand by this quote:
"Spain is not even close to being socialist so if its leader has 'leanings', they are hidden well."
Knowing that the leading party in Espana is socialist, which was inspired in part by non other than Marxism?
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Most countries, including the USA, are secular. Spain is not even close to being socialist so if its leader has 'leanings', they are hidden well.
Yes, the return of the hypocrite Decker.................. ...
The Hypocrite Decker says Spain is not socialist ? LMAO !!!!!!! :o :o :o
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Socialist_Workers'_Party
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The Spanish Socialist Workers' Party, commonly abbreviated by its Spanish initials, PSOE (Partido Socialista Obrero Español), is the
ruling party in Spain and the second oldest, exceeded only by the Partido Carlista, founded in 1833. It is a Centre-left, social-democratic, Democratic socialist and progressivism party"
Hypocrite Decker should just stick to telling us how he thinks it was so wrong for the troops to obey their orders, and to go to Iraq...
Yet it was OK for his man-love John Edwards to vote yes, to send them to War !! ::) ::) ::)
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Once again I'll go in order, even though I'm starting to think wasting my time arguing with someone who is completely lost.
Another genius like argument. Yes, Bush ordered 10's of thousands of deaths. I am beginning to see arguing with you is like arguing with someone who has cerebral palsy.
I'll ignore your simpering.
Do you deny that Bush ordered the deaths of tens of thousands Iraqis?
I can't believe even you would make such a ridiculous claim.
( See Nordics post above, do your reasearch)
Why he’s as wrong as you are. You see the word ‘Socialist’ and you think it’s a slam dunk…holy crap you’re intelligent. You have a gift for grasping the subtleties of grammar and politics…I am in awe…again.
Now I have to explain this to you so listen closely. Spain was a rightwinger’s wet dream under Franco. The political pendulum swung to right center b/c the Spanish recognized what an inhuman and backward-ass system rightwing fascism was. Spain is as socialist a country as George Bush was a uniter.
From an analysis by the rightwing shithole “The Heritage Foundation”, here’s what’s right wing about Spain:
“The Heritage Foundation, a think-tank based out of Washington DC is a conservative think-tank “devoted to the principles of free enterprise, limited government and individual freedom”. In its 2008 rankings of Economic Freedom the Heritage Foundation ranks Spain number 31 out of 157 countries, in which the top three countries are Hong Kong, Singapore and Ireland, and the bottom three Zimbabwe, Cuba and North Korea.”
Here’s the platform that “socialist” Zapatero ran on in 2004:
“The president since March 2004, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, a socialist, announced his intension to reduce government intervention in business, to combat tax fraud, support innovation, research and development and also to reintroduce labor market regulations that had been eliminated…. “
Reducing government, reducing governmental intervention in business and regulating the labor market…yeah, that screams “Socialism”. That platform is textbook conservatism.
You just keep clinging to the word “Socialist” b/c the proof’s in the pudding.
I am bringing it up because Hugo brought up what Bush said after 911 to show that what he said is identical to what leftist leaders have said after terror attacks. Christians and Buddists aren't blowing up trains with innocent people on them, threatening our national security and showing videos on the internet of beheadings are they?
No, Christians are blowing up abortion clinics and assassinating doctors by shooting them in the back.
Christians are killing tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis in an illegal war. Christians are occupying a foreign country illegally.
Christians are torturing untried detainees.
You’re gonna have to do better than that.
When has Bush ever caved to political correctness? His trademark is to give a big "Fuck You" to his opponents. Jeez, his office is always telling the Congress to go screw itself. --> Ok, this is a silly emotional overture not grounded in fact or reality.
Bush Administration Suggests Justice Department Can Ignore Congress Contempt Charges
http://themoderatevoice.com/society/law-legal-matters/14128/bush-administration-suggests-justice-department-can-ignore-congress-contempt-charges/
Bush to ignore sections of the defense bill
http://presscue.com/node/46935
Bush asserts authority to bypass defense act
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/01/30/bush_asserts_authority_to_bypass_defense_act/
There are 5,280,000 hits for Bush ignoring Congress. I can do this all day.
Maybe you should pay more attention to the stupidity coming from your fingers You wrote and I quote: Since Pres. Bush made torture a usual practice of the USA, I would think it might concern you that innocent people might be getting tortured without at least a trial.=>
The CIA can torture untried detainees with impunity thanks to Bush and McCain. That’s the fact oh wise one.
^ Without at least a trial. Hmmmm... Ok there. Anyway I'm sure your answer to my next question will be tainted with emotion and stupidity, but how should government interegators treat terrorists they are trying to extract information from? Nicely?
I’d have answered this sooner but I had to decipher your egregious spelling. Once again you miss the entire point of the discussion. That’s ok. I feel patient today. Detainees are not terrorists. They are the accused. Since we do not have a perfect army, mistakes will be made in rounding up the usual suspects. Innocent people will be detained and tortured.
Experts say torture doesn't work
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/cont/node/2601
TORTURE DOESN'T WORK
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1114/p09s01-coop.html
Ex-FBI Agent: Harsh Interrogation Doesn't Work
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2452777
Torture doesn’t work…unless you believe 24 is a real life experience. It isn’t.
Either you’re a sadistic bastard enamored of the ineffectual tactic of torture or you think TV is real.
Which is it?
What does this have to do with my point about teaching and proselytizing about the Muslim religion in CA public schools in clear violation of the establishment clause and free exercise clauses of the constitution while ruling that the word GOD in the pledge of alliegance was a violation? ( The Supreme court overturned the 9th circuits stupidity with the pledge, but refused to hear the appeal in Eklund v. Byron Unified School District)
You try my patience. Try to focus your scatterbrain for a minute. You posted this:
==> WOW you clearly know nothing about American history. Im beginning to think I wasted my time arguing with someone of subpar intelligence. What right winger added God to the pledge a few hundred year ago?
I answered that the Catholics (a notorious leftwing group to you I guess) took advantage of the McCarthy Era red scare to push God into the pledge. The rest of your point is bilge.
________________________ _______
You know I thought your name was funny. I still do. But you are in over your head. Follow the tact of Eldon/Ozark/BerzerkFury and level baseless attacks at me.
You have no chance in a debate.
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Yes, the return of the hypocrite Decker.................. ...
The Hypocrite Decker says Spain is not socialist ? LMAO !!!!!!! :o :o :o
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Socialist_Workers'_Party
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The Spanish Socialist Workers' Party, commonly abbreviated by its Spanish initials, PSOE (Partido Socialista Obrero Español), is the
ruling party in Spain and the second oldest, exceeded only by the Partido Carlista, founded in 1833. It is a Centre-left, social-democratic, Democratic socialist and progressivism party"
Hypocrite Decker should just stick to telling us how he thinks it was so wrong for the troops to obey their orders, and to go to Iraq...
Yet it was OK for his man-love John Edwards to vote yes, to send them to War !! ::) ::) ::)
Well, well, well. Didn't I slap you around enough in the other thread?
I guess I didn't.
Does everyone see what this tool calls hypocrisy?
Yes, I know, he's too fucking stupid to understand the concept of hypocrisy.
Here's a blast from the past where Eldon chimes in on a thread to support Ozark.
Eldon is Ozark so that makes this even more creepy:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=192002.0
When Ozark is losing a debate, like he was in the Fair Tax thread, Eldon makes an appearance to lend support.
That's sad.
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Decker, you're absolutely wrong.
Spain is a socialist country, as is pretty much 99.9% of the EU.
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Decker beating your opponent into submission with baseless emotional remarks coupled with a few half truths and out right falsehoods until he becomes too tired to argue and gets bored realizing reality isn't an important part of the debate, doesn't constitute winning an argument. As for my spelling, I apalagize. This is an internet message board, not an oped piece for the New York Times. I dont use spell checlk.
Your brainwashed and typical of most liberals. I think some mental health experts might have a better shot of curing you than I.
Gods speed my friend.
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Decker, you're absolutely wrong.
Spain is a socialist country, as is pretty much 99.9% of the EU.
At what threshhold does a country become "Socialist"?
What are the economic features of Spain that make it "Socialist"?
Calling a leader that reduces government's size, reduces governmental intervention in business and regulates labor like Zapatero "socialist" doesn't change the fact that his is a conservative.
Spain is a democracy with a constitutional monarch. The Parliament consists of two chambers, the Congress of Deputies and the Senate. In March 2000, Jose Maria Aznar of the Popular Party was reelected Prime Minister, with the title President of the Government. The next national elections must be held by March 2004. The judiciary is independent.
The market-based economy, with primary reliance on private enterprise, provided the population of over 41 million with a high standard of living. The economy grew during the third quarter at a 1.7 percent annual rate. The annual inflation rate was 4 percent at year's end. Unemployment increased to 11.4 percent during the year, ending its downward trend.
www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2002/18392.htm
In the EU's 15 member states, between 1995 and 2004, the development of employment was also very different between the countries. In Ireland, the Netherlands, and Spain, the increase in employment was the highest; in Germany and Austria, it was almost zero.
What were the differences between the successful countries and the others? First of all, the labor market was substantially freer in the countries that succeeded in creating new jobs. Second, payroll and income taxes were more than 10 percentage points lower in the five best economies (in terms of job creation) compared to the five worst. Third, the levels of contribution from the state for unemployment and sick leave were lower in the best economies.XREF What the successful countries have in common are freer labor markets, lower taxes, and lower contributions.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/hl1037.cfm
Even the wretched Heritage Foundation sees conservatism where you see socialism.
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Whatever, spin it as you see fit, but the fact remains Spain is socialist.
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So, let me understand. You are relying on a Conservative think tank to dismantle the false accusation that Spain has a socialist government when it is called the Socialist Workers Party? lololol
This is exactly the kind of Orwellian liberal doublespeak the left uses to refute reality and all concrete evidence when it can't win an argument or disagrees with an opponents position.
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"Orwellian liberal doublespeak"
Wow... Now that's priceless... Unbelievable you have the balls to say that and be serious. gotta be kidding us.
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Decker beating your opponent into submission with baseless emotional remarks coupled with a few half truths and out right falsehoods until he becomes too tired to argue and gets bored realizing reality isn't an important part of the debate, doesn't constitute winning an argument. As for my spelling, I apalagize. This is an internet message board, not an oped piece for the New York Times. I dont use spell checlk.
Your brainwashed and typical of most liberals. I think some mental health experts might have a better shot of curing you than I.
Gods speed my friend.
So you took advice and went for the ad hominem attacks. Good for you.
I mean I don't see you refute my arguments or evidence.
And in the typical rightwing fascist fashion, you accuse me of insanity b/c you have no answer for my arguments.
That's a double good for you!
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Whatever, spin it as you see fit, but the fact remains Spain is socialist.
I missed your argument in support of your conclusion.
"X is X b/c I say so" is not good enough.
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So, let me understand. You are relying on a Conservative think tank to dismantle the false accusation that Spain has a socialist government when it is called the Socialist Workers Party? lololol
This is exactly the kind of Orwellian liberal doublespeak the left uses to refute reality and all concrete evidence when it can't win an argument or disagrees with an opponents position.
You are a brilliant debater.
That's been said.
You are entitled "brilliant".
The body of your posts in this thread would seem to contradict the conclusion that you are brilliant.
But you are still BRILLIANT.
I leave it to you to sort out the reasoning.
The world is a complex place.
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Hugo have you been paying attention to the last few postings? Decker is trying to convince everyone ( including himself I think) that Spains Socialist Workers party is not socialist. He points to a conservative think tanks study to back up his argument even though it is a known fact the party is socialist ( hence the name Socialist Workers Party). If you can't see that as an Orwellian 2+2=5 then you are as delusional as he is.
Decker I have refuted your silly arguments with ease. Maybe investing in a pair of reading glasses or perhaps ginko biloba to improve your brain function will help you uncover the obvious. I don't feel the need to waste my energy arguing with someone who refuses to acknowledge reality and responds to fact and reason with emotion. I have given you several answers to your arguments which you refuse to acknowledge. Theres really nothing else I can say. OK maybe I can...
"911 was an inside job", "Bush Lied People Died", "Not my President", "Keep your rosaries off my ovaries" lolololol
its been fun pal.
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I missed your argument in support of your conclusion.
"X is X b/c I say so" is not good enough.
1 + 1 = 2
You want me to create an argument supporting that outcome too?
Spain is socialist, run by a socialist party with inspiration in part by Marxism - facts are not up for debate.
If you want to debate how socialist Spain is in comparison with other countries, be my guest to open a separate thread for that.
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1 + 1 = 2
You want me to create an argument supporting that outcome too?
Spain is socialist, run by a socialist party with inspiration in part by Marxism - facts are not up for debate.
If you want to debate how socialist Spain is in comparison with other countries, be my guest to open a separate thread for that.
How is it a Socialist country?
Simple question. What economic indicators scream "Socialism"? If it's so obvious, this should be no problem for you.
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Hugo have you been paying attention to the last few postings? Decker is trying to convince everyone ( including himself I think) that Spains Socialist Workers party is not socialist. He points to a conservative think tanks study to back up his argument even though it is a known fact the party is socialist ( hence the name Socialist Workers Party). If you can't see that as an Orwellian 2+2=5 then you are as delusional as he is.
Decker I have refuted your silly arguments with ease. Maybe investing in a pair of reading glasses or perhaps ginko biloba to improve your brain function will help you uncover the obvious. I don't feel the need to waste my energy arguing with someone who refuses to acknowledge reality and responds to fact and reason with emotion. I have given you several answers to your arguments which you refuse to acknowledge. Theres really nothing else I can say. OK maybe I can...
"911 was an inside job", "Bush Lied People Died", "Not my President", "Keep your rosaries off my ovaries" lolololol
its been fun pal.
Conflating topics does not spare you the reality that you lost. You can't defend your statements so you run screaming from the thread that I'm crazy and that you really did show me.
Ok
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1 second research:
"In October 1982, the Spanish Socialist Workers Party (PSOE), led by Felipe González Márquez, swept both the Congress of Deputies and Senate, winning an absolute majority. González and the PSOE ruled for the next 13 years. During that period, Spain joined NATO and the European Community. Spain also developed social laws, as well as programmes in Education, Health and Work."
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Politics of Spain takes place in a framework of a parliamentary representative democratic constitutional monarchy, whereby the Monarch is the Head of State and the President of the Government is the head of government in a multi-party system. Executive power is vested in the government. Central legislative power is vested in the two chambers of parliament. The Judiciary is independent of the executive and the legislature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Spain
Spanish Socialist Workers' Party
The Spanish Socialist Workers' Party, commonly abbreviated by its Spanish initials, PSOE (Partido Socialista Obrero Español), is the ruling party in Spain and the second oldest, exceeded only by the Partido Carlista, founded in 1833. It is a Centre-left, social-democratic, Democratic socialist and progressivism party.[1]
It has had strong ties with the Unión General de Trabajadores, a Spanish trade union. For decades, UGT membership was a requirement for PSOE membership. During the 1980s, though, UGT criticised the economic policies of the PSOE, even calling for a general strike on December 14, 1988. [1].
Since the Spanish legislative election, 2004 on March 14, 2004 it is the party of government. It forms part of the Party of European Socialists and is a member of the Socialist International.[1].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Socialist_Workers%27_Party
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Offical Site of the PSOE
http://www.psoe.es/ambito/actualidad/home.do
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The party in power is socialist, but that all could change at the next election. The people have what they want so I don't see what's wrong with the way Spain is running their country. Or I should say how their system of government works.
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The party in power is socialist, but that all could change at the next election. The people have what they want so I don't see what's wrong with the way Spain is running their country. Or I should say how their system of government works.
What does this mean? The US is capitalist, that could all change if the people want communism... The same for any country, please don't try to soften the blow... SPAIN = SOCIALIST.
Spain is socialist... why are we even fucking debating it? Fuck me... ::)
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What does this mean? The US is capitalist, that could all change if the people want communism... The same for any country, please don't try to soften the blow... SPAIN = SOCIALIST.
Spain is socialist... why are we even fucking debating it? Fuck me... ::)
well no, it's not the same for every country, you could have a socialist country were losing power by vote is not an option. I didn't debate anything, I just thought I would grab some shit off wiki for you guys. The party in power is socialist, that could change next election. No debate from me on this.
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1 second research:
"In October 1982, the Spanish Socialist Workers Party (PSOE), led by Felipe González Márquez, swept both the Congress of Deputies and Senate, winning an absolute majority. González and the PSOE ruled for the next 13 years. During that period, Spain joined NATO and the European Community. Spain also developed social laws, as well as programmes in Education, Health and Work."
That's wonderful.
And George Bush is a compassionate conservative who is also a uniter by reaching across the aisle to opponents.
That's as accurate as calling Spain a Socialist country.
Socialism is the workers owning the means of production. I see private business flourishing and monopolizing Spain's putative socialist scheme.
"As of 2006 there were over 3 million small and medium-sized businesses in Spain, representing over 99% of all businesses in the country. In fact, most companies in Spain opt for Sole Trader or Sole Proprietor status (called Empresario Individual or Autónomo in Spanish) and 93% of Spanish businesses have less than 10 employees. The Spanish government (on the national level on down to the local level) provides various grants and incentives for the creation and expansion of small businesses in Spain as well as provides support and services to business owners."
http://www.spainexpat.com/spain/information/business_in_spain/
By gum those are some startling free enterprise numbers for a socialist country.
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well no, it's not the same for every country, you could have a socialist country were losing power by vote is not an option. I didn't debate anything, I just thought I would grab some shit off wiki for you guys. The party in power is socialist, that could change next election. No debate from me on this.
If the party changed it would remain socialist. Like in Britain. If the conservatives get power, social aspects will not change. NHS, welfare, education.
Spain too has socialism enshrined into it's health care, welfare and education systems. A change of party wouldn't change Spain to non-socialist simply because of the fact it's tied to the EU (which in itself is socialist).
Many laws by the EU e.g. healthcare across the board (i.e. you're covered across the EU member states) have forced, and will continue to force even the least socialist countries to abide by socialistic virtues, if they want a peace of the open market pie.
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That's wonderful.
And George Bush is a compassionate conservative who is also a uniter by reaching across the aisle to opponents.
That's as accurate as calling Spain a Socialist country.
Socialism is the workers owning the means of production. I see private business flourishing and monopolizing Spain's putative socialist scheme.
"As of 2006 there were over 3 million small and medium-sized businesses in Spain, representing over 99% of all businesses in the country. In fact, most companies in Spain opt for Sole Trader or Sole Proprietor status (called Empresario Individual or Autónomo in Spanish) and 93% of Spanish businesses have less than 10 employees. The Spanish government (on the national level on down to the local level) provides various grants and incentives for the creation and expansion of small businesses in Spain as well as provides support and services to business owners."
http://www.spainexpat.com/spain/information/business_in_spain/
By gum those are some startling free enterprise numbers for a socialist country.
Wow, nice analogy! And bravo for somehow bringing Bush into the debate!
Spain is socialist, ruled by a socialist party. Serious, be man enough in defeat to admit you're wrong! ;D
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Jeez, even Wikipedia doesn't call Spain a socialist country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_countries
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Wow, nice analogy! And bravo for somehow bringing Bush into the debate!
Spain is socialist, ruled by a socialist party. Serious, be man enough in defeat to admit you're wrong! ;D
Zero proof from you.
And the analogy works.
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Jeez, even Wikipedia doesn't call Spain a socialist country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_countries
The fact that Britain and Canada don't even get a mention destroys your argument.
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The fact that Britain and Canada don't even get a mention destroys your argument.
We aren't talking about Britain and Canada.
But if we were, neither are socialist countries.
Again you offer conclusions with no support.
I've given you facts and statistics that do not support your contention that Spain is a socialist country.
You've given me very little.
Canada is a parliamentary capitalistic democracy. GB is a parliamentary capitalistic country as well.
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Government type:
parliamentary monarchy
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sp.html#Govt
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Keep deleting my posts. Only furthering to prove my point, Hugo. :D
I did my job in this case assclown.
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We aren't talking about Britain and Canada.
But if we were, neither are socialist countries.
Again you offer conclusions with no support.
I've given you facts and statistics that do not support your contention that Spain is a socialist country.
You've given me very little.
Canada is a parliamentary capitalistic democracy. GB is a parliamentary capitalistic country as well.
I live in GB, from everything I experience, daily, it's socialist.
Spain = Socialist.
I'm ofskis so I'll see how this turns out tomorrow :-*
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I live in GB, from everything I experience, daily, it's socialist.
Spain = Socialist.
I'm ofskis so I'll see how this turns out tomorrow :-*
That's anecdotal evidence.
The vast majority of private enterprises in what you call a socialist country doom your point from the outset. In socialism, the worker or citizen owns the means of production. Examples would be if the gov. owned steel companies or any other businesses. UHC could be considered a socialist endeavor if the insurers are not private companies but the gov. itself.
"As of 2006 there were over 3 million small and medium-sized businesses in Spain, representing over 99% of all businesses in the country."
That is not socialism, that is private capitalistic enterprise.
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We aren't talking about Britain and Canada.
But if we were, neither are socialist countries.
Again you offer conclusions with no support.
I've given you facts and statistics that do not support your contention that Spain is a socialist country.
You've given me very little.
Canada is a parliamentary capitalistic democracy. GB is a parliamentary capitalistic country as well.
That's anecdotal evidence.
The vast majority of private enterprises in what you call a socialist country doom your point from the outset. In socialism, the worker or citizen owns the means of production. Examples would be if the gov. owned steel companies or any other businesses. UHC could be considered a socialist endeavor if the insurers are not private companies but the gov. itself.
"As of 2006 there were over 3 million small and medium-sized businesses in Spain, representing over 99% of all businesses in the country."
That is not socialism, that is private capitalistic enterprise.
Which modern country is 100% anything? For example, which country was ever truly 100% communist?
Yeah yeah, the common man in Britain will say the UK isn't socialist ::) not...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_British_socialism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)
Political Ideology: Democratic socialism, Social democracy, Third Way
Well done guys, you're idiots.
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Which modern country is 100% anything? For example, which country was ever truly 100% communist?
Yeah yeah, the common man in Britain will say the UK isn't socialist ::) not...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_British_socialism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)
Political Ideology: Democratic socialism, Social democracy, Third Way
Well done guys, you're idiots.
I've given a textbook definition of what 'socialism' is--the people owning the means of production--and I pointed out that Spain is 90+% private enterprise.
How can you argue that it's socialist when the stats show you to be dead wrong?
Why are you preoccupied with your titular 'proof'. I always wanted to the use that word.
That's not proof.
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I've given a textbook definition of what 'socialism' is--the people owning the means of production--and I pointed out that Spain is 90+% private enterprise.
How can you argue that it's socialist when the stats show you to be dead wrong?
Why are you preoccupied with your titular 'proof'. I always wanted to the use that word.
That's not proof.
Was Russia or China ever really communist?
The ruling parties in Britain and Spain are socialist. These countries have many socialistic attributes, other than capitalism. No country falls into any specific government style 100%.
You're just a know it all whiny bitch my friend :D
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Bumping this up.
Hugo, is the Labour Party of the UK socialist?
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Bumping this up.
Hugo, is the Labour Party of the UK socialist?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)
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Modern liberalism is at its very core nihilistic. It is unsustainable. All one has to do is look at the birthrates of the native peoples of Europe. All, except for Albania, have below BRR(Birth Replacement Rates). Japan is beginning to suffer from this also as their population is rapidly aging in greater numbers. Crushing taxes, the more radical feminist movements, inflation, offshoring of jobs, soaring costs of anything child-related, unchecked and increased immigration from primarily Islamic nations, disintegration of the nuclear family, embracing and indoctrinating of alternative (and oft bizarre) lifestyles, discriminatory hiring and promotion practices against the native populations, abortion, appeasement of every whim of minority cultural and racial groups, and the gradual reduction and eliminating of Judeo-Christian values from every institution all help to contribute in some way or another to the European peoples and its' nations.
As the population ages, there aren't enough younger people to make up for the taxes and care needed for the elderly. Thus, the imporation of massive amounts migrants from primarily Islamic nations begins. Various European nations have called for the need for even more immigrants because their populations are aging so quickly.
Muslims have a very different attitude when it comes to social practices.....they believe in the traditional family structure. They aggressively expand their religion and culture to other regions of the world, sometimes violently. They are fiercely proud of their traditions and cultures, often holding their values to be superior to all others. Europe seems to be on the opposite end of the spectrum......ashamed of its history, nationalism all but non-existent, ultra-tolerance of even the most bizarre practices, well below BRR, and greatly reduced in power.
And what will happen when Islam becomes the majority in Europe(and it will)? Do you think the new regimes in power would tolerate much if anything of the self-destructive liberals? These Europeans will become a persecuted minority in their own native lands. The Enemy is not at the Gate.....it is already within the city with millions of good intentioned enablers to help them along the path of conquest.
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Modern liberalism is at its very core nihilistic. It is unsustainable. All one has to do is look at the birthrates of the native peoples of Europe. All, except for Albania, have below BRR(Birth Replacement Rates). Japan is beginning to suffer from this also as their population is rapidly aging in greater numbers. Crushing taxes, the more radical feminist movements, inflation, offshoring of jobs, soaring costs of anything child-related, unchecked and increased immigration from primarily Islamic nations, disintegration of the nuclear family, embracing and indoctrinating of alternative (and oft bizarre) lifestyles, discriminatory hiring and promotion practices against the native populations, abortion, appeasement of every whim of minority cultural and racial groups, and the gradual reduction and eliminating of Judeo-Christian values from every institution all help to contribute in some way or another to the European peoples and its' nations.
As the population ages, there aren't enough younger people to make up for the taxes and care needed for the elderly. Thus, the imporation of massive amounts migrants from primarily Islamic nations begins. Various European nations have called for the need for even more immigrants because their populations are aging so quickly.
Muslims have a very different attitude when it comes to social practices.....they believe in the traditional family structure. They aggressively expand their religion and culture to other regions of the world, sometimes violently. They are fiercely proud of their traditions and cultures, often holding their values to be superior to all others. Europe seems to be on the opposite end of the spectrum......ashamed of its history, nationalism all but non-existent, ultra-tolerance of even the most bizarre practices, well below BRR, and greatly reduced in power.
And what will happen when Islam becomes the majority in Europe(and it will)? Do you think the new regimes in power would tolerate much if anything of the self-destructive liberals? These Europeans will become a persecuted minority in their own native lands. The Enemy is not at the Gate.....it is already within the city with millions of good intentioned enablers to help them along the path of conquest.
well Capitalism itself is subject to some of the major ills you point out are facing liberals, are you anti-capitalist or do you have a special needs program in mind for those items in question to aid the corporations?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)
OK from your link:
Political Ideology: Democratic socialism, Social democracy, Third Way
Political Position: Centre-Left
International Affiliation: Socialist International
European Affiliation: Party of European Socialists
European Parliament Group: Party of European Socialists
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well Capitalism itself is subject to some of the major ills you point out are facing liberals, are you anti-capitalist or do you have a special needs program in mind for those items in question to aid the corporations?
I am not an anti-capitalist, but an advocate of regulated capitalism. Government and private enterprise must be precisely balanced, but that balance is difficult if not possible to maintain. Right-wingers routinely express the need for smaller government, and the Invisible Hand of the free market to guide its course. There is no such thing as a pure free market. Government is not the only entity that manipulates and controls various free market nuances. Many private companies and individuals do so as well. I would never want to live in the US where there wasn't an FDA, USDA, or SEC.
Globalism does greatly impede this. The US can't exist within a globalist society until it gets knocked down a few pegs to equalize with the other nations of the world. I'd like to see manufacturing stay here, jobs stay here, and put hefty tariffs on incoming foreign goods. This won't happen since most of our modern politicians are globalists.
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I am not an anti-capitalist, but an advocate of regulated capitalism. Government and private enterprise must be precisely balanced, but that balance is difficult if not possible to maintain. Right-wingers routinely express the need for smaller government, and the Invisible Hand of the free market to guide its course. There is no such thing as a pure free market. Government is not the only entity that manipulates and controls various free market nuances. Many private companies and individuals do so as well. I would never want to live in the US where there wasn't an FDA, USDA, or SEC.
Globalism does greatly impede this. The US can't exist within a globalist society until it gets knocked down a few pegs to equalize with the other nations of the world. I'd like to see manufacturing stay here, jobs stay here, and put hefty tariffs on incoming foreign goods. This won't happen since most of our modern politicians are globalists.
FUCKING A #1 CLASS AAA BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I THINK I LOVE YOU :D
post here more, these jackasses need your wisdom.
yes I'm serious.
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post here more, these jackasses need your wisdom.
yes I'm serious.
Jeez, nice way to think of your brethren who have different opinions... :-\
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FUCKING A #1 CLASS AAA BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I THINK I LOVE YOU :D
post here more, these jackasses need your wisdom.
yes I'm serious.
Don't try to blow him too early, Berserker. Might end up going home by yourself tonight if you do that. Geez, talk about slobbering on a guy's nuts.
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Jeez, nice way to think of your brethren who have different opinions... :-\
your welcome ;)
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your welcome ;)
So is the Labour Party in Britain socialist or not?
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anyone who sings this well can't be all bad
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Bump!
British Labour Party:
Political Ideology: Democratic socialism, Social democracy, Third Way
Political Position: Centre-Left
International Affiliation: Socialist International
European Affiliation: Party of European Socialists
European Parliament Group: Party of European Socialists
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Milwaukee, Wisconsin had a socialist mayor, part of the socialist party, for years and years.
Did that make us Socialist? No. Why? B/c the businesses of milwaukee were mostly privately owned. Not owned by the people through the government, privately owned. Same goes for Spain, Britain and Canada.
Names can be deceiving. Titles mean little. What are the underlying facts? Do those facts line up with definitions in your argument?
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Most modern governments are a mixture of governing styles (and hybrid system).
As I earlier stated, no communist country has ever practised true communism.
Britain and Spain have socialist governments with influences from past systems such as capitalism.
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Most modern governments are a mixture of governing styles (and hybrid system).
As I earlier stated, no communist country has ever practised true communism.
Britain and Spain have socialist governments with influences from past systems such as capitalism.
I understand your point.
I just disagree with you.
I would characterize Spain, Canada, and Britain as having capitalistic systems with hints of socialism.