Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Method101 on August 11, 2008, 01:18:09 PM
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I'm not going to lie to you guys as I detest/hate people who do that. I did run what is supposedly the most mild ph last september (1,4 AD Bold), that supposedly doesn't aromatize, etc. and did everything properly (took precautions above what was recommended and cut it short because I felt terrible on it), however it shut me down still to this day (have seen several doctors, etc.) so I've lost everything and than some unfortunately from where I was in the beginning. It was the worst decision of my life and I'll never do that again. I can say (however) that I am sort of glad that it did because if it had worked out well I may have continued to do it. Fair warning to everyone who messes with that stuff.
Thanks for all of the responses so far, as well.
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee331/mazrim00/P1011655.jpg)
Congratulations Mazrim, via prohormones you have attained monster 14.5inch guns and merciless gyno.
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Good beach bod
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I agree with thread title.
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Prohormones give ya double the side effects of AAS, with about 10% of the benefits. Bravo!
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Prohormones give ya double the side effects of AAS, with about 10% of the benefits. Bravo!
Exactly.
And for the record, arms are 15.5 after closing in on a year of being shutdown.
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gyno's not that bad. Get with a doc and you can have it fixed with meds, or removed with a small slit under the nipple, whole procedure done in 20 minutes for both nipples and cost ya maybe a grand. What area of country you in? I'm sure some GB members can recommend docs that specialize in this thing. Gyno is a common thing. 1/3 of men that suffer from it never touch gear, just high E levels.
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Sucks about being shut down but the kid looks good.
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So you ran a steroid and didn't do PCT and are complaining that it fucked you up?
Congrats.
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Man, Your liver must be fucked up. Did he get a blood test after the cycle? :-X
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Don't get all the anger towards the guy. He has been honest, tried to warn others. He also has a good physique. If you lift to look more attractive to girls and have a good body for the beach..then he's got it.
Props for the honesty and the heads up Mazrim. PHs are absolute garbage - like 240 said..all the sides and none of the gains of the super vits.
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Exactly.
And for the record, arms are 15.5 after closing in on a year of being shutdown.
What are you doing to get "started up" again?
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So you ran a steroid and didn't do PCT and are complaining that it fucked you up?
Congrats.
No, read again, please. Did above what was recommended for it. Kind of complaining abit you could say as it does irritate me that so many people in gyms run them and real steroids and do it completely wrong with no thought to safety and I'm the one who got messed up.
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What did you take? Bold?
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What are you doing to get "started up" again?
For awhile now I avoided doing anything as I've been seeing doctors, etc. (as I didn't want to do anything else to myself and was loathe to mess up any type of tests they might run on me) but all said that they won't help out a "steroid abuser" so far. Finally, I ran something called Sustain Alpha by Primordial Performance and strength began to climb again, etc. Have been off of that for a bit and felt horrid again, but am now taking a week off from the gym as I haven't done that in forever.
Have gotten several bloodtests and waiting for the results of the latest one to see how that is. Depending on the results, I may try and see another doctor or I was planning on running some a-dex followed by nolva to help out the nips and possible restart myself again. Also looking into clomid. The thing is is that I after I ran the normal PCT with the Nolva for 4 weeks and I felt really terrible a bit later on again and used up the rest of that bottle (about a week) and felt good again on it, so maybe I should have ran the Nolva longer.
Also, and this was surprising/heartening, this morning I woke up and my nips appear to have lost a noticeable amount of the puffiness which is amazing since ever since I ran that they have been puffier. Maybe a year later it is finally going away.
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What did you take? Bold?
Yes.
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maz, if I was you, I'd that the experience as a sign from the Almighty that you are a hyperresponder to the E level spike, which - IMO - means you're going to be a heavy responder with receptors in the scalp, the prostate, the liver for polyps, the kidneys, etc. IMO you don't have the constitution for steroid use and should back away from it now, and let your endocrine system recover, and just be clean forever.
Look at people on getbig who are in their late 30s and early 40s, looking twenty years older with all sorts of heart and gut issues. It's not worth it. When you're 30 and start making babies, staying alive til you're 70 will probably be your main goal in life.
If you're not trying to live the kamikaze lifestyle and be a top national or pro BBer, just be smart and back away form the stuff completely. Just me 3 cents.
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For awhile now I avoided doing anything as I've been seeing doctors, etc. (as I didn't want to do anything else to myself and was loathe to mess up any type of tests they might run on me) but all said that they won't help out a "steroid abuser" so far. Finally, I ran something called Sustain Alpha by Primordial Performance and strength began to climb again, etc. Have been off of that for a bit and felt horrid again, but am now taking a week off from the gym as I haven't done that in forever.
Have gotten several bloodtests and waiting for the results of the latest one to see how that is. Depending on the results, I may try and see another doctor or I was planning on running some a-dex followed by nolva to help out the nips and possible restart myself again. Also looking into clomid. The thing is is that I after I ran the normal PCT with the Nolva for 4 weeks and I felt really terrible a bit later on again and used up the rest of that bottle (about a week) and felt good again on it, so maybe I should have ran the Nolva longer.
Also, and this was surprising/heartening, this morning I woke up and my nips appear to have lost a noticeable amount of the puffiness which is amazing since ever since I ran that they have been puffier. Maybe a year later it is finally going away.
What have your test levels looked like for the past year? I take it that you have some blood work and this isn't just based on how you feel?
Doesn't sound right, being "shut down" after taking an oral for just a few weeks followed by Nolva. How many weeks was the cycle exactly?
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maz, if I was you, I'd that the experience as a sign from the Almighty that you are a hyperresponder to the E level spike, which - IMO - means you're going to be a heavy responder with receptors in the scalp, the prostate, the liver for polyps, the kidneys, etc. IMO you don't have the constitution for steroid use and should back away from it now, and let your endocrine system recover, and just be clean forever.
Look at people on getbig who are in their late 30s and early 40s, looking twenty years older with all sorts of heart and gut issues. It's not worth it. When you're 30 and start making babies, staying alive til you're 70 will probably be your main goal in life.
If you're not trying to live the kamikaze lifestyle and be a top national or pro BBer, just be smart and back away form the stuff completely. Just me 3 cents.
Those are basically my thoughts now that I reached out of the norm and got bit. Thank you.
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What have your test levels looked like for the past year? I take it that you have some blood work and this isn't just based on how you feel?
Doesn't sound right, being "shut down" after taking an oral for just a few weeks followed by Nolva. How many weeks was the cycle exactly?
First blood test I got a 170 ish total test (only test taken at that time as I kind of threw that in because I felt that I was having a lot of the symptoms while I was having a doctors visit). Next blood test was 290 total and at the supreme low end of free test (I got other things such as lh, etc. and all were on the low end or below the low). Next one total test rose to 450 (about what a 60 year old should have) but the real culprit of free test was still super low along with the others so I'm not really utilizing it or something. Still waiting on the last one which was taken after the Sustain Alpha. Still have little to no libido and am tired often. People in the know said that my cortisol was low for being fasted in the morning which I thought was kind of odd as I always thought cortisol being high would be a problem.
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I'm still unclear on how long you were taking the prohormone and what exactly you mean by "shut down."
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I'm still unclear on how long you were taking the prohormone and what exactly you mean by "shut down."
Oh, sorry, shutdown means lack of sex-drive, testosterone levels decreased substantially (never had blood test on test levels before this so don't know if they were lower before, however), caused me to be unable to lose fat, loss of strength, depression, etc.
I was on it for 7 weeks. For that particular one you are recommended to do it upwards of 8-12 weeks as it supposedly slow acting/mild. I cut it off at 7 weeks or so because it made me feel terribly lethargic, etc.
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As much as I hate M1T, that shit pumps up your muscles with glycogen way faster than any roid I've ever done.
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Congratulations Mazrim, via prohormones you have attained monster 14.5inch guns and merciless gyno.
Looks like he feels like a "god" in this pic. ::)
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For awhile now I avoided doing anything as I've been seeing doctors, etc. (as I didn't want to do anything else to myself and was loathe to mess up any type of tests they might run on me) but all said that they won't help out a "steroid abuser" so far. Finally, I ran something called Sustain Alpha by Primordial Performance and strength began to climb again, etc. Have been off of that for a bit and felt horrid again, but am now taking a week off from the gym as I haven't done that in forever.
Have gotten several bloodtests and waiting for the results of the latest one to see how that is. Depending on the results, I may try and see another doctor or I was planning on running some a-dex followed by nolva to help out the nips and possible restart myself again. Also looking into clomid. The thing is is that I after I ran the normal PCT with the Nolva for 4 weeks and I felt really terrible a bit later on again and used up the rest of that bottle (about a week) and felt good again on it, so maybe I should have ran the Nolva longer.
Also, and this was surprising/heartening, this morning I woke up and my nips appear to have lost a noticeable amount of the puffiness which is amazing since ever since I ran that they have been puffier. Maybe a year later it is finally going away.
Bold is probably one of the weakest/most useless PH's on the market(even though they just banned it)
If that gyno is solid, nothing will get rid of it except surgery. Don't waste your time.
You should have known better from the start. Don't take a prohormone then bitch about the side effects. In addition, if you can get Nolva and Adex, why wouldn't you have just gotten real drugs since you can get them? Unless it is from a research chem site which most of them are bogus shit. Did you ever think your Nolva may have been fake? How long did you run it and at what dose. No reason you'd need to go over 20/20/10/10 at only 7 weeks of Bold. And in addition to this, you probably didn't even need a SERM and could have used OTC products.
PS- No one with a brain would ever recommend you to run Bold for over 8 weeks. I have also never heard an educated individual recommend that. You must frequent bodybuilding.com and got the idea from there.
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Prohormones give ya double the side effects of AAS, with about 10% of the benefits. Bravo!
depends on your receptors if they are able to respond to it or not. If everyone responed to steroids so good like ronnie coleman then we would have all ronnie colemans walking the street. you sir know nothing,,,about hormonolized people from that post. some guy may take dbol and gain 2lbs while another guy takes it and gians 20lbs....
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croatch the second
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maz, if I was you, I'd that the experience as a sign from the Almighty that you are a hyperresponder to the E level spike, which - IMO - means you're going to be a heavy responder with receptors in the scalp, the prostate, the liver for polyps, the kidneys, etc. IMO you don't have the constitution for steroid use and should back away from it now, and let your endocrine system recover, and just be clean forever.
Despite the incredible factual errors with this post, I agree with the sentiment.
Go see an endocrinologist--get a referral from your PCP. Look at your local university/hospital for someone that specializes in male hormone issues, e.g. prostate, fertility, etc.
If you do decide to use again, stick with medically approved compounds like testosterone and nandrolone.
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For awhile now I avoided doing anything as I've been seeing doctors, etc. (as I didn't want to do anything else to myself and was loathe to mess up any type of tests they might run on me) but all said that they won't help out a "steroid abuser" so far. Finally, I ran something called Sustain Alpha by Primordial Performance and strength began to climb again, etc. Have been off of that for a bit and felt horrid again, but am now taking a week off from the gym as I haven't done that in forever.
Have gotten several bloodtests and waiting for the results of the latest one to see how that is. Depending on the results, I may try and see another doctor or I was planning on running some a-dex followed by nolva to help out the nips and possible restart myself again. Also looking into clomid. The thing is is that I after I ran the normal PCT with the Nolva for 4 weeks and I felt really terrible a bit later on again and used up the rest of that bottle (about a week) and felt good again on it, so maybe I should have ran the Nolva longer.
Also, and this was surprising/heartening, this morning I woke up and my nips appear to have lost a noticeable amount of the puffiness which is amazing since ever since I ran that they have been puffier. Maybe a year later it is finally going away.
If you still think you haven't returned or are not returning to normal:
Run nolvadex at 20mg a day for three months, then very slowly lower the dosage (taper off) over a period of two months. You might need to repeat this cycle a few times with several months break in between. Get blood test in between cycles to verify if it is working. Do you know what your pre steroid testosterone levels were?
Do all the other things that support testosterone levels such as a good nights sleep, adequate sunlight, adequate calories and fats, positive attitude, don't overtrain, cut down on alcohol and stimulants like caffeine, if you are single then only masturbate once a week but still look at porn/chicks every day for mental stimulation, if you have a girlfriend then sex as often as you can, etc.
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The depressed T and LH levels don't indicate hypogonadism IMO. That would see you with high LH but unresponsive nuts. I'd recommend getting another full androgen profile done, including estrogens. The ratio of E1:E2:E3 will show the doc how well you are metabolizing and clearing estrogens. It's possible that the cause of your shutdown is simply excessive E. (Is your diet lacking vegetables?) Looking at prolactin might be helpful too, since your sex drive is depressed.
I have only limited knowledge of endo matters, but checking further up the chain on things like progesterone and other stuff might be helpful if you've got a good doc to interpret the results. BTW, your cortisol level is supposed to be highest after waking, then lower in the evening. Thats why they were surprised by your results. I'd imagine you rarely feel good or refreshed in the morning, and possibly have a hard time getting out of bed. Even though you're tired a lot of the time, do you find yourself wide awake late at night when its time for bed? You might want to do some research on adrenal fatigue and adrenal exhaustion, and see if there's a match with the symptoms.
If you've noticed testicular atrophy, or if there's reason to believe that your nuts are the limiting factor in your recovery, HCG is a useful drug.
FFS don't tell your doc that you used steroids! Just tell him the truth - that you bought some weightlifting supplements from GNC (or whatever) and they screwed you up (and don't make any more references to your body composition, talk more about sex dysfunction, exhaustion, and wanting a better quality of life). If he says he won't help a steroid abuser, remind him that everything you used was legally purchased over the counter, and ask him how he can justify turning away a kid (sorry man) who never broke any laws, just wanted to lift some weights, wanted to get fit, etc, but had bad luck with nutritional supplements? I'd also be tempted to add, "What kind of fucking doctor are you anyway?" Refusing to treat you on the basis that you're a steroid abuser is really fucked up (and implies that he would treat you otherwise, but now he won't because he personally disapproves of your actions)! I'd be thinking about filing a complaint. Definitely seek out a new doctor.
I'd also go see a doc at an HRT clinic. They'll be more in tune with your situation and less judgemental than a GP or endo, and they'll be more willing to prescribe things like HCG and clomid than a GP or endo. Non HRT docs aren't going to stick their neck out to help you achieve a better quality of life. You're not bleeding to death, so as far as they're concerned there's no reason to see you. You're going to have to dig around for a doc who will take your situation seriously.
You are improving tho, so I guess there's something to be said for being patient. Even if you don't want to start popping pills or taking shots, getting some more comprehensive blood tests/saliva tests done and getting a second and third opinion won't do any harm.
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if you are single then only masturbate once a week but still look at porn/chicks every day for mental stimulation, if you have a girlfriend then sex as often as you can, etc.
Why? Why does he have to be penalized for being single. And cumming is cumming. The body doesn't say 'we've cum in a girl , raise test levels' or 'we've come in a wad of kleenex, lower test levels' ::)
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Why? Why does he have to be penalized for being single. And cumming is cumming. The body doesn't say 'we've cum in a girl , raise test levels' or 'we've come in a wad of kleenex, lower test levels' ::)
Agree. No one can seem to make up their mind whether T goes up or down anyway. There's lots of other stuff happening besides T too.
Don't turn chaste, don't be an hourly wanker either. Just be yourself.
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Bold is probably one of the weakest/most useless PH's on the market(even though they just banned it)
If that gyno is solid, nothing will get rid of it except surgery. Don't waste your time.
You should have known better from the start. Don't take a prohormone then bitch about the side effects. In addition, if you can get Nolva and Adex, why wouldn't you have just gotten real drugs since you can get them? Unless it is from a research chem site which most of them are bogus shit. Did you ever think your Nolva may have been fake? How long did you run it and at what dose. No reason you'd need to go over 20/20/10/10 at only 7 weeks of Bold. And in addition to this, you probably didn't even need a SERM and could have used OTC products.
PS- No one with a brain would ever recommend you to run Bold for over 8 weeks. I have also never heard an educated individual recommend that. You must frequent bodybuilding.com and got the idea from there.
It's not solid at all. Just puffier than they used to be.
I had no idea where to get the "real drugs" when I went with this choice. I ran Nolva afterwards for 4 weeks at 40-20-20-20 with Hypertest. Felt all right but than a couple months down the road I felt bad/weak/tired and ran the Nolva until I finished the bottle and I noticed a difference all ready again during that short time period, so I don't believe it was bunk (maybe underdosed?). It was a research chem from a place that people I know of have used several times with no problems, but lately I've been hearing some bad things about them.
I wrote that I went above and beyond what was recommended (OTC). You are saying that doing the Nolva was probably more than needed which it apparantly wasn't. You are contradicting yourself. I would rather be as safe as possible than sorry was my viewpoint.
No, I wasn't "bitching" as I was asked the question and it was pointed out that my nips were puffy. Simple question/response sequence (which I'm assuming you are able to comprehend). I made the choice (after researching for a long while which was why I chose this relatively "safe" and weakest, as you yourself put it as well, one) and this was the consequence. Should I not tell of the experience if asked?
Yes, I frequent BB.com. 8 weeks is recommende at the least, 12 at the maximum. So I don't know what your point is as I ran it below that and you even said that 7 weeks of Bold is nothing.
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If you still think you haven't returned or are not returning to normal:
Run nolvadex at 20mg a day for three months, then very slowly lower the dosage (taper off) over a period of two months. You might need to repeat this cycle a few times with several months break in between. Get blood test in between cycles to verify if it is working. Do you know what your pre steroid testosterone levels were?
Do all the other things that support testosterone levels such as a good nights sleep, adequate sunlight, adequate calories and fats, positive attitude, don't overtrain, cut down on alcohol and stimulants like caffeine, if you are single then only masturbate once a week but still look at porn/chicks every day for mental stimulation, if you have a girlfriend then sex as often as you can, etc.
Here's what I was recommended to do. Still waiting on latest blood tests, etc. which I should have by this weekend.
A-dex:.25 every day 1-4 weeks
Nolva:20 mg/ed 5-8
I never got testosterone levels checked beforehand. I much regret that because they may have been lower before as I am prone to depression sometimes and haven't had a high libido really in awhile (even before). Like I wrote I was 125 lbs a few years back doing extreme dieting trying to get ripped without having the muscle first so I don't know if that had anything to do with it.
Thank you. I will cut back on coffee as I was starting to drink a lot of it in order to get energy levels up.
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The depressed T and LH levels don't indicate hypogonadism IMO. That would see you with high LH but unresponsive nuts. I'd recommend getting another full androgen profile done, including estrogens. The ratio of E1:E2:E3 will show the doc how well you are metabolizing and clearing estrogens. It's possible that the cause of your shutdown is simply excessive E. (Is your diet lacking vegetables?) Looking at prolactin might be helpful too, since your sex drive is depressed.
I have only limited knowledge of endo matters, but checking further up the chain on things like progesterone and other stuff might be helpful if you've got a good doc to interpret the results. BTW, your cortisol level is supposed to be highest after waking, then lower in the evening. Thats why they were surprised by your results. I'd imagine you rarely feel good or refreshed in the morning, and possibly have a hard time getting out of bed. Even though you're tired a lot of the time, do you find yourself wide awake late at night when its time for bed? You might want to do some research on adrenal fatigue and adrenal exhaustion, and see if there's a match with the symptoms.
If you've noticed testicular atrophy, or if there's reason to believe that your nuts are the limiting factor in your recovery, HCG is a useful drug.
FFS don't tell your doc that you used steroids! Just tell him the truth - that you bought some weightlifting supplements from GNC (or whatever) and they screwed you up (and don't make any more references to your body composition, talk more about sex dysfunction, exhaustion, and wanting a better quality of life). If he says he won't help a steroid abuser, remind him that everything you used was legally purchased over the counter, and ask him how he can justify turning away a kid (sorry man) who never broke any laws, just wanted to lift some weights, wanted to get fit, etc, but had bad luck with nutritional supplements? I'd also be tempted to add, "What kind of fucking doctor are you anyway?" Refusing to treat you on the basis that you're a steroid abuser is really fucked up (and implies that he would treat you otherwise, but now he won't because he personally disapproves of your actions)! I'd be thinking about filing a complaint. Definitely seek out a new doctor.
I'd also go see a doc at an HRT clinic. They'll be more in tune with your situation and less judgemental than a GP or endo, and they'll be more willing to prescribe things like HCG and clomid than a GP or endo. Non HRT docs aren't going to stick their neck out to help you achieve a better quality of life. You're not bleeding to death, so as far as they're concerned there's no reason to see you. You're going to have to dig around for a doc who will take your situation seriously.
You are improving tho, so I guess there's something to be said for being patient. Even if you don't want to start popping pills or taking shots, getting some more comprehensive blood tests/saliva tests done and getting a second and third opinion won't do any harm.
Thanks. I am waiting on latest blood tests with all of that. Have been getting those each time with my tests previously as well so we shall see what type of results I have this time.
You are exactly right about the feeling like not wanting to get up and staying awake at night. Have never been a deep sleeper. I will look into those as well.
I didn notice that my lower extermeties was atrophied in the beginning but they are getting fuller again so that is hopefully a good sign.
Yeah, I thought that you were supposed to be honest with doctors but each endo I went to I printed off the page with the product, etc. and immediately after I showed it to them their whole attitude changed completely. I told them it was legal as well. They definetly knew how I felt about it, though. Like I said, I'm waiting for the latest bloodtests and will probably be looking into another doc as well. There is a good one in Lansing, MI (near where I live) supposedly, but I haven't gone to him yet as he doesn't take insurance.
That's what I've been hearing/learning about endos/doctors and am currently looking into a few anti-aging/hrt places around where I live.
Thanks again for the thorough response.
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This is me after 8 months of working out with any semblance of knowledge before I ever touched anything (are nips "normal" in that? Maybe they were slightly puffy before?):
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee331/mazrim00/august6.jpg)
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee331/mazrim00/August07.jpg)
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Thanks. I am waiting on latest blood tests with all of that. Have been getting those each time with my tests previously as well so we shall see what type of results I have this time.
You are exactly right about the feeling like not wanting to get up and staying awake at night. Have never been a deep sleeper. I will look into those as well.
I didn notice that my lower extermeties was atrophied in the beginning but they are getting fuller again so that is hopefully a good sign.
Yeah, I thought that you were supposed to be honest with doctors but each endo I went to I printed off the page with the product, etc. and immediately after I showed it to them their whole attitude changed completely. I told them it was legal as well. They definetly knew how I felt about it, though. Like I said, I'm waiting for the latest bloodtests and will probably be looking into another doc as well. There is a good one in Lansing, MI (near where I live) supposedly, but I haven't gone to him yet as he doesn't take insurance.
That's what I've been hearing/learning about endos/doctors and am currently looking into a few anti-aging/hrt places around where I live.
Thanks again for the thorough response.
It sounds like you might have an overworked adrenal system, so perhaps you were predisposed to suffer from bad recovery. Maybe that's why you crashed while others don't. My [elementary] understanding is that an overtaxed adrenal system will divert androgen precursors away from testosterone (and other hormones) production in favor of cortisol production. Depression and anxiety won't help your hormonal profile either.
Definitely wait to see what a doc (who takes your situation seriously) says and don't take any advice off the forums, although you should discuss whatever relevant topics are introduced online with your doc. I would hold off on the Arimidex and Nolvadex for now until you've spoken with your doc. Fwiw, I like clomid (clomiphene citrate) for recovery better than nolva... but, again, ask your doc.
In the meantime, there's no harm in supplenting 30mg or so of zinc per day (don't go over 45mg), and put a couple of heads of broccoli per day through a juicer. Just hold your nose and swig it - excellent for estrogen clearance. Button mushrooms are a good aromatase inhibitor, although obviously nothing like Arimidex, but if you're T production is low there isn't much T to aromatize to begin with. Last thing is: plenty of vitamin C. Don't eat too much at once or you'll get the shits, but try to space out your doses and get 3000-4000mg per day.
Also, back off on the intensity in the gym. Don't approach failure anymore, keep in the above 10 rep range, and get out in under 45 minutes. Pay attention to how you're feeling and take days off when you need 'em, and probably don't lift more than 3 days a week. I've had some of the same issues as you although they weren't brought on by drugs, and found a 3x week full body workout using compound lifts and only light intensity was something I could handle when overtraining was a concern.
PS - epic physique ::)
j/k man ;) welcome to Getbig
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It's not solid at all. Just puffier than they used to be.
I had no idea where to get the "real drugs" when I went with this choice. I ran Nolva afterwards for 4 weeks at 40-20-20-20 with Hypertest. Felt all right but than a couple months down the road I felt bad/weak/tired and ran the Nolva until I finished the bottle and I noticed a difference all ready again during that short time period, so I don't believe it was bunk (maybe underdosed?). It was a research chem from a place that people I know of have used several times with no problems, but lately I've been hearing some bad things about them.
I wrote that I went above and beyond what was recommended (OTC). You are saying that doing the Nolva was probably more than needed which it apparantly wasn't. You are contradicting yourself. I would rather be as safe as possible than sorry was my viewpoint.
No, I wasn't "bitching" as I was asked the question and it was pointed out that my nips were puffy. Simple question/response sequence (which I'm assuming you are able to comprehend). I made the choice (after researching for a long while which was why I chose this relatively "safe" and weakest, as you yourself put it as well, one) and this was the consequence. Should I not tell of the experience if asked?
Yes, I frequent BB.com. 8 weeks is recommende at the least, 12 at the maximum. So I don't know what your point is as I ran it below that and you even said that 7 weeks of Bold is nothing.
BB.com are morons. There really isn't much more to say about that. Whatever their superdrol abusing mods like dalvare tell you about dosage is wrong. Those fucking idiots are parrots and tell the mass public whatever iForce tells them. They are usually out on other forums trying to figure out info on what those compounds actually are since they have no idea.
7 weeks of Bold @ 600mg, even at 1200mg...IS nothing, but that doesn't mean I was telling you to run it for longer dumbass. It means that it is extremely unlikely your HPTA was suppressed enough to warrant a SERM. I've seen 8 week runs of Epistane + Bold, Halo + Bold, 6 week runs of Epi + Tren and tons more shit that was PCT'd with an AI, some I3C, a good anti-catabolic product like Retain 2 and some SAMe.
Bad move was using a research chem. Just as you have absolutely no idea what is in that bottle of Bold, you have no idea what those research chems really are. The dose on the Nolva was also too high, there is no "I wanted to be safe". This is the whole mantra of BB.com morons who design these fucking ELABORATE CRAZY RETARDED PCT'S where they are using 27 products and an AI, + a SERM, plus saw palmetto, RYR, HB, COQ10, creatine, glutamine, + lean extreme 2.0, + milk thistle, + 10 other things. You need to use the lowest possible productive dose. It isn't a good idea for example to run out and do 3 weeks of Halo then run fucking Raloxifene at 120 90 60 60. OVERKILL. I am not going to run some Furaguno then inject myself with 5000UI of HCG over several weeks. OVERKILL
Your nips are still noticeably puffy in those pictures.
You also need a haircut.
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at least i get my estrogen right from the faucet
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BB.com are morons. There really isn't much more to say about that. Whatever their superdrol abusing mods like dalvare tell you about dosage is wrong. Those fucking idiots are parrots and tell the mass public whatever iForce tells them. They are usually out on other forums trying to figure out info on what those compounds actually are since they have no idea.
7 weeks of Bold @ 600mg, even at 1200mg...IS nothing, but that doesn't mean I was telling you to run it for longer dumbass. It means that it is extremely unlikely your HPTA was suppressed enough to warrant a SERM. I've seen 8 week runs of Epistane + Bold, Halo + Bold, 6 week runs of Epi + Tren and tons more shit that was PCT'd with an AI, some I3C, a good anti-catabolic product like Retain 2 and some SAMe.
Bad move was using a research chem. Just as you have absolutely no idea what is in that bottle of Bold, you have no idea what those research chems really are. The dose on the Nolva was also too high, there is no "I wanted to be safe". This is the whole mantra of BB.com morons who design these fucking ELABORATE CRAZY RETARDED PCT'S where they are using 27 products and an AI, + a SERM, plus saw palmetto, RYR, HB, COQ10, creatine, glutamine, + lean extreme 2.0, + milk thistle, + 10 other things. You need to use the lowest possible productive dose. It isn't a good idea for example to run out and do 3 weeks of Halo then run fucking Raloxifene at 120 90 60 60. OVERKILL. I am not going to run some Furaguno then inject myself with 5000UI of HCG over several weeks. OVERKILL
Your nips are still noticeably puffy in those pictures.
You also need a haircut.
Hmm.........so what you're saying is that you still haven't improved your reading comprehension skills? Contradictions abound amongst your ramblings.
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Hmm.........so what you're saying is that you still haven't improved your reading comprehension skills? Contradictions abound amongst your ramblings.
Please point them out titty boy.
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Why? Why does he have to be penalized for being single. And cumming is cumming. The body doesn't say 'we've cum in a girl , raise test levels' or 'we've come in a wad of kleenex, lower test levels' ::)
1. Abstaining for short periods builds up sex drive and energy, makes you a more focused and confident person.
2. Studies show that periods of abstinence increases testosterone levels. This could help with recovery by resetting your HTPA.
3. If you find it extremely difficult to make it a week without having a wank, then you will know that your hormones are in order and your libido normal.
4. There is a mental difference between wanking and sex, which is manifested in your mood, which affects hormone levels.
5. If your hormone levels are normal, jerk off as much as you like.
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Yes.
did you take real NOLVADEX or the gaspari stuff novadex? dont be fooled.
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This is me after 8 months of working out with any semblance of knowledge before I ever touched anything (are nips "normal" in that? Maybe they were slightly puffy before?):
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee331/mazrim00/august6.jpg)
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee331/mazrim00/August07.jpg)
yea they are puffy in this shot mate, i guess the drugs didnt do it, and since you were outside in the air, theres a chance it dosent look so bad because your nipples got errect lol, but it is there.
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The depressed T and LH levels don't indicate hypogonadism IMO. That would see you with high LH but unresponsive nuts.
Low LH = secondary hypogonadism. Which is rare in juicers so long after a cycle from what I understand.
Yes the guy needs to see a specialist.
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Low LH = secondary hypogonadism. Which is rare in juicers so long after a cycle from what I understand.
Yes the guy needs to see a specialist.
Yeah it is also likely that he fucked up somewhere along the road, because 7 weeks of an unmethylated PH(and a quite weak one at that, Boldenone isn't exactly serious business) is very unlikely to cause suppression to that degree. He may have had an underlying health issue too. Wouldn't you say?
This is of course unless he really abused the product, he never revealed the dose. Or if he was taking something else, or if he had taken something else in the past and didn't PCT properly.
The list goes on and on.
Oh, and he looks young too. I wonder if hes even 21.
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Low LH = secondary hypogonadism. Which is rare in juicers so long after a cycle from what I understand.
Yes the guy needs to see a specialist.
I stand corrected. Whats happening with secondary hypogonadism? The pituitary is unresponsive to GnRH or there's a GnRH production problem? (Yes I could google, but asking for my own benefit as well as others reading the thread.)
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did you take real NOLVADEX or the gaspari stuff novadex? dont be fooled.
Nolvadex.
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yea they are puffy in this shot mate, i guess the drugs didnt do it, and since you were outside in the air, theres a chance it dosent look so bad because your nipples got errect lol, but it is there.
Thanks. That somewhat takes a bit off of the mind. Maybe because I was at the highest weight I had ever been (186 lbs) that it seemed more noticeable, though even before I got up that high I could tell that they had changed when taking the sup.
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Yeah it is also likely that he fucked up somewhere along the road, because 7 weeks of an unmethylated PH(and a quite weak one at that, Boldenone isn't exactly serious business) is very unlikely to cause suppression to that degree. He may have had an underlying health issue too. Wouldn't you say?
This is of course unless he really abused the product, he never revealed the dose. Or if he was taking something else, or if he had taken something else in the past and didn't PCT properly.
The list goes on and on.
Oh, and he looks young too. I wonder if hes even 21.
You may be very much right about underlying health issues as my libido hasn't really been very good for years from what I can remember. Also, like I said I am prone to depression sometimes which was kind of why I took it in the first place because of my somewhat poor self-image.
Took it for 600 mg through most of the cycle. Have never taken anything else before. Took me a very long time to decide between that and Mass FX and chose the former. Don't use supps anymore except for whey once in awhile.
Age was 22 at the time I took it (young for sure). I get that all of the time about the age however. Nearing 23 now.
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This is me after 8 months of working out with any semblance of knowledge before I ever touched anything (are nips "normal" in that? Maybe they were slightly puffy before?):
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee331/mazrim00/august6.jpg)
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee331/mazrim00/August07.jpg)
You have a lot acne and gyno.
You can't fool us.
This is why kids should not take steriods. ::)
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As much as I hate M1T, that shit pumps up your muscles with glycogen way faster than any roid I've ever done.
I got worse sides from M1T then I ever did from dbol.
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OTC is CRAP.
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gyno's not that bad. Get with a doc and you can have it fixed with meds, or removed with a small slit under the nipple, whole procedure done in 20 minutes for both nipples and cost ya maybe a grand. What area of country you in? I'm sure some GB members can recommend docs that specialize in this thing. Gyno is a common thing. 1/3 of men that suffer from it never touch gear, just high E levels.
What crack are you smoking? Gyno surgery from a good plastic surgeon is going to run you between 4,000 - 6,000 dollars
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What crack are you smoking? Gyno surgery from a good plastic surgeon is going to run you between 4,000 - 6,000 dollars
I got it done for 3K, out the door.
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1/3 of people with gyno have it naturally. High E levels.
2/3 of people, yes, gear or prohormones.
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1/3 of people with gyno have it naturally. High E levels.
Maybe they are just more responsive to its effects? they may not have high levels.
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What crack are you smoking? Gyno surgery from a good plastic surgeon is going to run you between 4,000 - 6,000 dollars
Apparantly I had it before but just never noticed it really or it wasn't as apparant as noone has ever said anything when I've posted my before pics on other forums or when walking around in real life so I don't think it is a huge concern at this time. It's always been incredibly hard for me to lose bodyfat so I don't know if that is an indicator of anything or not.
On a side note, my latest blood test has me at 270 total test and free test of 7 (scale 12.4-40.0). I got a ton of tests for this one so that it will be very thorough for the next doctor I see. My strength has dropped dramatically again after coming of the Sustain Alpha which is odd because I didn't really notice anything from it and all of my test levels, etc. dropped since the blood test before this one.
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Maybe they are just more responsive to its effects? they may not have high levels.
That may be true as my estradiol has never been out of whack and yet....this time it was 22 on a scale of 13-54.