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What are you going to say? this is in direct contradiction to your claims to the contrary :)
in 1993 the judges were prepared to assign dorian a score in the muscularity round WITHOUT comparing him to his competitors.
you tell us if thats a fair judging panel or not.. ::)
thats about as solid of proof of contest fixing/partial judging as you can get right there:
pull a score out of your ass and write it down on the card. who cares how you got it... ::)
i never once said a contest was fixed
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Sure you claimed Kevin beat Dorian despite the judges decision
how is that claiming a fix?
and you say i confuse your thoughts:P
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or it could be he was just do far and beyond ANYTHING the sport has ever seen ;) who could be right you or the judges? hmmmmm
Let me get this straight , Kevin beat Dorian but they judges picked Dorian and you're not claiming its fixed . please elaborate on this
you don't get it.
it doesn't matter if dorian was 109000 times better than everyone else, the point is that in order to have impartial judging, the judges still have to follow the protocol of comparing competitors properly to assign them scores which are as accurate as possible.
they were prepared to throw all that out the window and assign a score anyway..
hence, partial judging from the onset.
you can't argue this ND - by definition that is what occured.
period.
Not saying anything was fixed but come on, maybe Dorian sucked a lot of Dick and not just uncle Joes, maybe all the judges wanted their great white hope to win, or maybe they just did'nt follow procedure or the judging format at all and something else went on behind closed doors.
Did you guys hear about Anthony Johnsons ovious eye poke incident from Kevin Burns not being overturned to a DQ or NC by the NSAC. Shady shit happens in some sports for reasons that can not be explained, Matt Hamil Lost to Bisbing in London also. Brock is about to fight Randy for no logical reason other than the big bucks they'll make, point being you do what is financialy best for your organization. One last tid bit, whites sell more magazines than blacks when they're the cover boys.
i said god knows how many times that the judges chose the ugliest body
please elaborate how that is claiming a fix ::)
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pssst retard , they did judge him in the symmetry round and seen enough
You have your excuses Dorian has the SandowsOf course all we can do here is debate and speculate, so good observation ::).
yeah, they saw this:
::)
yet another ND thread that backfires in his face LOL
pssst retard , they did judge him in the symmetry round and seen enough
yeah, they saw this:
::)
yet another ND thread that backfires in his face LOL
Dorian didnt win that now did he?
Dorian didnt win that now did he?
Of course all we can do here is debate and speculate, so good observation ::).
That reminds me of a pretty cool and interesting statement Dorian made in Flex a while ago, something along the lines of how he was told so many times by many people that his physique was ugly, unsymetrical and undeserving of many of his O wins, but at the end of the day he still had his Olympia trophies to comfort him 8).
I guess plastic trophies are more important to him than the legacy that his peers and the fans that drive the sport have of him and his questionable O reign :-\.
so, you tell us all how judges can be impartial in scoring a competitor in the mandatories by seeing him standing in the quarter turns only.
you tell us all LOL
::)
face ND, you have lost this battle badly.
yes, and he deserved to win overall.
but that is not what is being discussed here.
its the method used to come to that conclusion that is in question.
ie the judges were going to score dorian without even bothering to compare him to his competitors in the muscularity round.
hence, partial judging in favor of dorian.
period.
yeah I'm buying that story ::)You don't believe the quote? I'll see if I can find the mag by today or tomorrow. I did not think the quote was anti-Dorian at all, just interesting in correlation to your previous post.
You don't believe the quote? I'll see if I can find the mag by today or tomorrow. I did not think the quote was anti-Dorian at all, just interesting in correlation to your previous post.
You do that I'll lose sleep until thenOh no :'(. I would'nt want that, now you'll have no sleep between this and a nude Dorian being in your head at all times.
Oh no :'(. I would'nt want that, now you'll have no sleep between this and a nude Dorian being in your head at all times.
and the judges were partial to Dorian's physique because it was SUPERIOR to his contemporaries using the Official IFBB judging criteria duh
you constantly make homosexual references what would Freud say?
please explain to everyone how the judges can apply the 'official IFBB judging criteria" to dorian vs. his competitors without even actually comparing him to them in the round?
explain genius.. ::)
Freud would say Ronnie is better than dorian.
you constantly make homosexual references what would Freud say?He'd probrably say your gay if he studied this thread, your id impulses you to sexualy satisfy yourself to photos of Yates :-*.
and that would mean what? lots of people say with the exception of Ronnie ;)Ronnie's a humble man who respects Dorian and would not say things to detract from him, but Ronnie's also a complete idiot who's claimed he does not use steroids and had no sort of injury prior to the 06 & 07 Olympias all while his head shakes in spasms.
They seen enough in the symmetry round I typed this already , you seen this already
You do that I'll masturbate to thoughts of dorian until then
Did Dorian deserve all of his wins against Kevin Levrone?
in my opinion, no
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The voters decide nothing.
The ones who count the votes decide everything.
Elaborate
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Not saying anything was fixed but come on, maybe Dorian sucked a lot of Dick and not just uncle Joes, maybe all the judges wanted their great white hope to win
Of course all we can do here is debate and speculate, so good observation ::).To be fair mate, i think Dorians Legacy is more than safe, and the Majority of Dorians peers have respect for what Dorian had done for his time...of course @ THE TIME they competed against him alot of them had negitive stuff to say...thats HUMAN nature no one likes coming second... just as was the case against RONNIE...with Flex in 1999 @ the O outcome, Jay @ the 2001 ) and Kevin in 2002 etc...talk to that same Blokes now and they are pretty much saying Ronnie is the Greatest of all time etc... im thinking mayby its more likely among the BB FANS etc...where opionons are more diverse about WHO was better.
That reminds me of a pretty cool and interesting statement Dorian made in Flex a while ago, something along the lines of how he was told so many times by many people that his physique was ugly, unsymetrical and undeserving of many of his O wins, but at the end of the day he still had his Olympia trophies to comfort him 8).
I guess plastic trophies are more important to him than the legacy that his peers and the fans that drive the sport have of him and his questionable O reign :-\.
yes, and he deserved to win overall.hulkster check out my 18' inch arms and tell me if they look better than dorian yates's :D
but that is not what is being discussed here.
its the method used to come to that conclusion that is in question.
ie the judges were going to score dorian without even bothering to compare him to his competitors in the muscularity round.
hence, partial judging in favor of dorian.
period.
The voters decide nothing.
The ones who count the votes decide everything.
The judges simply ranked the competitors on a sheet of paper, awarding the best man one point, the second two and so on. It was a simple method in which the lowest score won. DeMilia had devised a system where the computer randomly selected one judge per round as an alternate, thus eliminating their score. It then removed the three highest and the three lowest scoring judges. From the twelve judges, then, just five papers counted in any one round, and the judges were unaware of which they were, " To fix a contest, definitely beyond a shadow of a doubt, Wayne had told me, somewhat gleefully, ' you gotta buy off nine judges. I figured this out mathematically. You gotta buy off nine judges. In our sport, with all the big mouths and gossips and everything else, you think nine judges could keep their mouths shut? And lets face it, you gotta go to nine judges and one says ' I don't wanna do it, ' you gotta go to number ten...You think that one other guy ain't gonna talk? ' Hey he tried to buy me off, but I didn't take it. He didn't offer me enough money..." how much money is it gonna take.?"
Its impossible to fix a contest anyone who says otherwise is ignorant of the way contests are judged , well you're not ignorant anymore what excuses are you left with now?
Just the easy ones..
I give you the 6-time "winner" with "perfect scores".
The real question's how many times NerD will bump this to keep it alive.
good point.
the result has to get past Uncle Joe/Uncle Ben first.
the judges could have had dorian in third for all we know, but we only see the 'adjusted' score sheets with dorian getting perfect, courtesy of Uncle Joe and Uncle Ben?
that could explain everything.. 8)
good point.
the result has to get past Uncle Joe/Uncle Ben first.
the judges could have had dorian in third for all we know, but we only see the 'adjusted' score sheets with dorian getting perfect, courtesy of Uncle Joe and Uncle Ben?
that could explain everything.. 8)
To be fair mate, i think Dorians Legacy is more than safe, and the Majority of Dorians peers have respect for what Dorian had done for his time...of course @ THE TIME they competed against him alot of them had negitive stuff to say...thats HUMAN nature no one likes coming second... just as was the case against RONNIE...with Flex in 1999 @ the O outcome, Jay @ the 2001 ) and Kevin in 2002 etc...talk to that same Blokes now and they are pretty much saying Ronnie is the Greatest of all time etc... im thinking mayby its more likely among the BB FANS etc...where opionons are more diverse about WHO was better.You're probrably right about Dorians legacy in the long term, but I believe that more people will question more of Dorians wins than any other Mr O for a long time. And just like you just said; a lot of Ronnies peers, whom also competed against Dorian, claim Ron to be the geatest bb and Mr O of all time. When most of your competitors say that, I it holds a lot of weight in the argument of Dorian vs Ronnie which was my point the whole time.
You're probrably right about Dorians legacy in the long term, but I believe that more people will question more of Dorians wins than any other Mr O for a long time. And just like you just said; a lot of Ronnies peers, whom also competed against Dorian, claim Ron to be the geatest bb and Mr O of all time. When most of your competitors say that, I it holds a lot of weight in the argument of Dorian vs Ronnie which was my point the whole time.dorian's legacy?
On a side note, that was a nice exchange of opinions without anybody writing "meltdown" or "owning" each other.
;)
ronnie was not saying he was in 2nd place thereSINCE WHEN is the VICTORY hand signal the signal for #2? >:(
according to ronnie AND YOU BELIEVE EVERYTHING HE SAYS he claims he was saying hi to someone in the crowd
i do feel that jay was better than ronnie that night though
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SINCE WHEN is the VICTORY hand signal the signal for #2? >:(
because ND says so ;)ND also says dorian yates was the best ::)
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You're probrably right about Dorians legacy in the long term, but I believe that more people will question more of Dorians wins than any other Mr O for a long time. And just like you just said; a lot of Ronnies peers, whom also competed against Dorian, claim Ron to be the geatest bb and Mr O of all time. When most of your competitors say that, I it holds a lot of weight in the argument of Dorian vs Ronnie which was my point the whole time.
On a side note, that was a nice exchange of opinions without anybody writing "meltdown" or "owning" each other.
SINCE WHEN is the VICTORY hand signal the signal for #2? >:(
No the spin was a peace sign get it right lol Ronnie knows he lost in 2001peace sign
peace sign
or victory sign
SURE AS HELL WASN'T A NUMBER 2 sign >:(
that quote from wayne was from "muscle" ?
Thats unusual, I dont remember reading this in the book "Muscle".
Ronnie Coleman was the most improved bodybuilder , and they should have an award for that but it SHOULDN'T be the overall title. Ronnie Coleman won the Mr Olympia for making the most improvement.
Ronnie does NOT have the complete physique. He has a certain degree of shape and detail but , let's be honest , he has a lot of weaknesses : calves , hamstrings , midsection. He has flaws on his physique that you just can't find on my physique or Flex Wheeler's physique.
Did they even count the posing routine? Ronnie Coleman is never going to be remembered for a posing routine.
The plain truth is that I beat Ronnie last year [2000] and Jay Cutler beat Ronnie this year. You should not win the Mr. Olympia if your stomach is hanging out -- period. Last year, I patted Ronnie's stomach during the posedown to draw attention to the fact that he was bloated. That tactic obviously didn't work, and Ronnie beat me in the posedown to successfully defend his title for a third straight Mr. O triumph.
So now the show rolls around and Jay Cutler beats Ronnie in both prejudging rounds: symmetry and muscularity. Ronnie was spilling over with too much water during the muscularity round, and Cutler took it to him in many of the poses that Coleman usually dominates.
How can Cutler lose this contest if he wins in both symmetry and muscularity? How can Ronnie retain his title if his midsection is bloated and distended? Why should the fans get behind a champion who can't present an aesthetic image of what bodybuilding is supposed to be all about?
I'm talking about classical proportions, perfect symmetry and ideal conditioning. Based on that ideal, I should have won the Sandow in 2000, and Cutler should have taken it in 2001.
The fans deserve better than what they are getting. I'm already working hard to ensure that, in 2002, a true peoples' champ can strip the title away from Ronnie Coleman.
No that was Levrone from Flex magazinelevrone ;D
What people? the fans? guys who Dorian crushed? what else are they going to say? and I love how you cling to Ronnie's contemporaries as proof of his superiority and dismiss what the man in question says great logic . and FYI contests aren't judged by fellow competitors so any opinion they offer is moot compared to the people who matter the mostMELTDOWN
Jon Hotten Muscle :
[Coleman's 1998 Olympia victory] was not a definitive win. In 99, Big Ron was lucky to defeat Flex Wheeler again. Levrone thought he'd beaten him twice, in 2000 and 2002. At the 2002 show, Levrone had won both of the evening rounds (a year on, at the Olympia press conference before the 2003 show, Coleman would chide Levrone, asking him, 'When was the last time you beat me?' Levrone replied, 'Last year.'). In 2001, Jay Cutler beat Ronnie in both the first two rounds and lost by four points.
Ronnie Coleman was the most improved bodybuilder , and they should have an award for that but it SHOULDN'T be the overall title. Ronnie Coleman won the Mr Olympia for making the most improvement.
Ronnie does NOT have the complete physique. He has a certain degree of shape and detail but , let's be honest , he has a lot of weaknesses : calves , hamstrings , midsection. He has flaws on his physique that you just can't find on my physique or Flex Wheeler's physique.
Did they even count the posing routine? Ronnie Coleman is never going to be remembered for a posing routine.
The plain truth is that I beat Ronnie last year [2000] and Jay Cutler beat Ronnie this year. You should not win the Mr. Olympia if your stomach is hanging out -- period. Last year, I patted Ronnie's stomach during the posedown to draw attention to the fact that he was bloated. That tactic obviously didn't work, and Ronnie beat me in the posedown to successfully defend his title for a third straight Mr. O triumph.
So now the show rolls around and Jay Cutler beats Ronnie in both prejudging rounds: symmetry and muscularity. Ronnie was spilling over with too much water during the muscularity round, and Cutler took it to him in many of the poses that Coleman usually dominates.
How can Cutler lose this contest if he wins in both symmetry and muscularity? How can Ronnie retain his title if his midsection is bloated and distended? Why should the fans get behind a champion who can't present an aesthetic image of what bodybuilding is supposed to be all about?
I'm talking about classical proportions, perfect symmetry and ideal conditioning. Based on that ideal, I should have won the Sandow in 2000, and Cutler should have taken it in 2001.
The fans deserve better than what they are getting. I'm already working hard to ensure that, in 2002, a true peoples' champ can strip the title away from Ronnie Coleman.
People were questioning Ronnie's wins through out his entire career right from the get go , even at his best he could barely beat Flex Wheeler , Flex thought he won in 1999 , Kevin thought he beat Ron in 2000 and 2002 , Jay 2001 2003 he was incident free 2004 he was a mess and he just barely beat Jay , I mean this is spanning his entire career
bottom line Dorian was a much more dominant bodybuilder without question
MELTDOWN
Your the only idiot who believes Dorian was better, when all the pros themselves and most of the experts deem Ron the best bb and Mr O of all time, it speaks volumes.
What else are they going to say? Asswipe they were defeated by Ron aswell, why would they be bitter towards Yates and not Coleman, Jesus Christ you are such a fan boy.
Sure some of Ronnies wins were controversial after all it is a subjective sport, but Ronnie was never a 1/4 arm piece of shit embarassment, something a bodybuilder should never be. People can say that jay might have beat him in 2001 when they were actualy standing relaxed cause in all poses except the abs and thigh Ronnie still smoked him as long as the gut was sucked in, you never see pics of Ronnie getting owned in any actual pose. It could also be argued that when Ronnie beat Flex it was close but again you cant really find a picture of Ron getting owned in 98 & 99 by Flex or even beaten period in 99. Dorian on the other hand looks like shit standing next to guys out of the top 5 in certain poses which makes his "dominance" very questionable, look at any front double bi of him against anyone in 96 and especialy in 97, and as good as his back was he also got embarassed in the rear double bi due to his "worse than a gym rat" arms which also made his most muscular look horrible.
Ronnie had a couple of what most would consider close calls, Dorian had more than a few of what many would see as complete gifts to a man who did not resemble what a body builder should look like. Hence the fact that there are millions of threads on the net questioning most of Yates "wins" and not very many about any of Colemans wins.
meltdownabortion?
when you can learn to articulate yourself I'll entertain your ' opinion ' be gone with this abortion ;)
abortion?
are you pro life or pro choice? >:(
I'm both I have three children so I'm pro-life but I'm pro-choice for people who want to exercise itI couldn't care less where you stand I just like busting your balls a little ;D no hard feelings
I couldn't care less where you stand I just like busting your balls a little ;D no hard feelings
meltdownHAHAHA, Holy shit man that gave me a good laugh.....you gotta be a homo or at least bi, fuck you are the gayest getbig bitch here, you get tossed around all the time and all you do in response is post "MELTDOWN", LOL with an eye roll, or since you just got owned clain to not need to "entertain" an opinion.
when you can learn to articulate yourself I'll entertain your ' opinion ' be gone with this abortion ;)
HAHAHA, Holy shit man that gave me a good laugh.....you gotta be a homo or at least bi, fuck you are the gayest getbig bitch here, you get tossed around all the time and all you do in response is post "MELTDOWN", LOL with an eye roll, or since you just got owned clain to not need to "entertain" an opinion.
I bet you wanted to be an English teacher but they would not allow a muscle worshiping fag around children.
Log off for a little while and just relaxxx stupiddd it's an internet bb forum 8).
"I don't knock on doors I knock doors down" Flex Wheeler to Kevin Levrone.......right? :Dyep ;D
yep ;Dalways a fan of Kevin Levrone, Arnold and Flex Wheeler ;D
;)
Deity,I already said v for victory
In all fairness, I think that caption's misleading. I didn't get to go to the 2001 Olympia -- my daddy and brothers said it'd be boring :( -- but as good as Jay was, I have to think Ronnie was flashing the "v" for "victory."
That said, I do find it strange how so many people here crash on Dorian Yates. At his best and Ronnie's best, it would be a very close contest. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignoring the evidence we have and/or is on some kind of bizarre troll crusade a'la some of those "Allah would, in flesh, look like" Nasser guys.
Why can't both "sides" agree that the other man was good, and move on? ;)
Dorian on the other hand looks like shit standing next to guys out of the top 5 in certain poses which makes his "dominance" very questionable, look at any front double bi of him against anyone in 96 and especialy in 97, and as good as his back was he also got embarassed in the rear double bi due to his "worse than a gym rat" arms which also made his most muscular look horrible.Ronnie had a couple of what most would consider close calls, Dorian had more than a few of what many would see as complete gifts to a man who did not resemble what a body builder should look like. Hence the fact that there are millions of threads on the net questioning most of Yates "wins" and not very many about any of Colemans wins.
Deity,
In all fairness, I think that caption's misleading. I didn't get to go to the 2001 Olympia -- my daddy and brothers said it'd be boring :( -- but as good as Jay was, I have to think Ronnie was flashing the "v" for "victory."
That said, I do find it strange how so many people here crash on Dorian Yates. At his best and Ronnie's best, it would be a very close contest. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignoring the evidence we have and/or is on some kind of bizarre troll crusade a'la some of those "Allah would, in flesh, look like" Nasser guys.
Why can't both "sides" agree that the other man was good, and move on? ;)
I think Ronnie thought he was second I think the 2nd sign is accurate , he knew he lost the prejudging so its not unrealistic to think he might have lost it and I wouldn't say it was fixed either but my whole point is it was extremely closethe same truce thread that went on to become another discussion board?
and you're right about Ronnie & Dorian being close I've always maintained that and have explained endlessly that both have a real deep mutual respect for each other , its shame Ronnie's fans can't appreciate his respect
and I tried to move on lol these guys follow me around like puppies they feel they have unfinished business , I haven't posted in the truce thread in 9 months , so they try and bring the truce thread to me but I get your point , great post unbiased and honest and I respect your opinion :)
Hulkster and NarcissisticDeity
why can't you guys just accept that you both have your own opinion?
and not try to convince the other?
:D
Oh its not about that anymore I gave up trying to prove anything to them , hence why I walked away from the truce thread , but the truce thread hated that fact I could do something they couldn't , leave my opinion to stand on its own two feet so now the truce thread follows me lol looking to get equalI think it's pretty silly to discuss about two guys on an on for so long
the truce thread was exactly that lol but again I was the bigger man by creating it and I was the bigger man by walking away from it and who knows what next?