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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Laura Lee on September 14, 2008, 09:46:21 AM
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I know you are definitely involved in following politics and our presidential candidates. I really am not although I admit I should be.
Last night I was told that Obama was a Muslim for 10 years. Is/was he?
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I know you are definitely involved in following politics and our presidential candidates. I really am not although I admit I should be.
Last night I was told that Obama was a Muslim for 10 years. Is/was he?
Ther isn't any evidence of this.
Karl rove and other republicans put out this rumor. Obama denied it. He provided proof he was born in USA, and his grade-school record all the way back until kindergarten. There was a nasty rumor about 3 months back that he attended a muslim grade school. The school was looked at, and the story proven false.
So while many repubs keep saying he is - there isn't a bit of evidence to prove this. Clinton and Mccain would LOVE nothing more than outing him as a muslim. But so far - after 20 months of smears - it's still just something they say that they can't prove.
Karl Rove and others float one BIG rumor every month, and they all have turned out to be jsut that - rumors. They keep promising a whitey tape, proof his birth cert isn't valid (even tho the state of Hawaii says it is), etc. It's just politics as usual. I see people in my gym swearing Obama is a muslim... there isn't any proof. It's just his middle name, and you can't control what your parents name you.
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http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
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Ther isn't any evidence of this.
Karl rove and other republicans put out this rumor. Obama denied it. He provided proof he was born in USA, and his grade-school record all the way back until kindergarten. There was a nasty rumor about 3 months back that he attended a muslim grade school. The school was looked at, and the story proven false.
So while many repubs keep saying he is - there isn't a bit of evidence to prove this. Clinton and Mccain would LOVE nothing more than outing him as a muslim. But so far - after 20 months of smears - it's still just something they say that they can't prove.
Karl Rove and others float one BIG rumor every month, and they all have turned out to be jsut that - rumors. They keep promising a whitey tape, proof his birth cert isn't valid (even tho the state of Hawaii says it is), etc. It's just politics as usual. I see people in my gym swearing Obama is a muslim... there isn't any proof. It's just his middle name, and you can't control what your parents name you.
Do you think that they are holding back some kind of proof until last minute to shake everything up? I just googled Snopes and there are so many different things in regards to it (between his father and his step father - being stated and claimed as false by Obama).
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http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
Lol, I'm always a day late and a dollar short.
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Lol, I'm always a day late and a dollar short.
I was talking to one of my neighbors last night and he still thinks Obama is a secret muslim.
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Last night I was told that Obama was a Muslim for 10 years. Is/was he?
does it matter to you if he was muslim?
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it's possible they're going to wait until the last minute. that's what they claim they're doing.
However, if such evidence existed, hilary (seeing as Bill used to run the world) would have had access to it, and it surely would have leaked out, so that she could win the nomination.
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Stella told me the reason Laura Lee is so interested is because laura lee recently converted to islam.
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does it matter to you if he was muslim?
It would for two reasons. One, because (if he was) he denied it. Two, I already believe that if he does become president I already fear for his life. I'm far from being prejudice, so believe me, I am talking about this as a whole..not for me...I don't believe we're ready for a black president or female president. I "personally" don't care who is president as long as the do what they had promised and run the country with the people of the United States in mind - first and foremost.
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It's impossible to be a "secret" Muslim....
Denial of Mohamed as Allah's greatest prophet and divine channel for "the final revelation" (ie: a Muslim denying himself as being a Muslim, or denying Islam) is considered tantamount to renouncing one's faith.
Read your Koran people...
If Obama is a secret anything, he's a secret atheist (like most intelligent people)... he never attending any church during his younger years and only joined a congregation when he opted to enter politics; he isn't in any way a fundamentalist (ie: Creationist) and is very careful in what he says about religion: "I believe in religion" not I believe in Jeebus... he talks about his "Faith", he doesn't assert the Bible as truth... etc. Lots of little giveaways.
It should be pretty obvious to observant voters that he is a "practicing Christian" rather than a "believing Christian"... most of the Founding fathers had some form of faith (mostly Masonic), but Christianity is little more than a required/traditional formality for modern politicians.
The Luke
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It's impossible to be a "secret" Muslim....
Denial of Mohamed as Allah's greatest prophet and divine channel for "the final revelation" (ie: a Muslim denying himself as being a Muslim, or denying Islam) is considered tantamount to renouncing one's faith.
Read your Koran people...
If Obama is a secret anything, he's a secret atheist (like most intelligent people)... he never attending any church during his younger years and only joined a congregation when he opted to enter politics; he isn't in any way a fundamentalist (ie: Creationist) and is very careful in what he says about religion: "I believe in religion" not I believe in Jeebus... he talks about his "Faith", he doesn't assert the Bible as truth... etc. Lots of little giveaways.
It should be pretty obvious to observant voters that he is a "practicing Christian" rather than a "believing Christian"... most of the Founding fathers had some form of faith (mostly Masonic), but Christianity is little more than a required/traditional formality for modern politicians.
The Luke
excellent summation
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yeah, it's true.
Most people in power use god as a weapon to manuipulate the masses, but don't believe it personally.
I don't know what they know, that we don't...
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yeah, it's true.
Most people in power use god as a weapon to manuipulate the masses, but don't believe it personally.
I don't know what they know, that we don't...
...eh, that it's a crock? Maybe?
There's as much evidence that True Adonis is god as there is evidence that Jeebus, Allah, Yahweh, Mithras, Attis, Tammuz, Bar Kochbah, Augustus Ceaser were/are god.
The Luke
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Two, I already believe that if he does become president I already fear for his life. I'm far from being prejudice, so believe me, I am talking about this as a whole..not for me...I don't believe we're ready for a black president or female president. I "personally" don't care who is president as long as the do what they had promised and run the country with the people of the United States in mind - first and foremost.
That's mighty patronizing big of you to care so much about the well-being of an adult man who can make his own choices.
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This is who Obama believes in. Alec Baldwin is the shit. ;D
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It's impossible to be a "secret" Muslim....
Denial of Mohamed as Allah's greatest prophet and divine channel for "the final revelation" (ie: a Muslim denying himself as being a Muslim, or denying Islam) is considered tantamount to renouncing one's faith.
Read your Koran people...
If Obama is a secret anything, he's a secret atheist (like most intelligent people)... he never attending any church during his younger years and only joined a congregation when he opted to enter politics; he isn't in any way a fundamentalist (ie: Creationist) and is very careful in what he says about religion: "I believe in religion" not I believe in Jeebus... he talks about his "Faith", he doesn't assert the Bible as truth... etc. Lots of little giveaways.
It should be pretty obvious to observant voters that he is a "practicing Christian" rather than a "believing Christian"... most of the Founding fathers had some form of faith (mostly Masonic), but Christianity is little more than a required/traditional formality for modern politicians.
The Luke
Are you saying he practices Christianity but doesn't actually believe in Christianity?
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Are you saying he practices Christianity but doesn't actually believe in Christianity?
Well wopedoo, is it possible to win the election as an atheist? No.
Is that ridiculous? Yes.
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Well wopedoo, is it possible to win the election as an atheist? No.
Is that ridiculous? Yes.
That's just the way it is. I don't think we will ever elect an atheist president (or even governor). Maybe small town mayor? Faith is just too ingrained in our society. Plus a large segment of the population apparently does not trust atheists.
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Are you saying he practices Christianity but doesn't actually believe in Christianity?
...he's a little too clever to be a believing Christian.
Why are people surprised by this?
Less than 5% of PhD level physicists believe in ANY kind of higher power... among PhD level molecular biologists that number is under 1%. Among the physicists, even those who believe in some sort of higher intelligence don't believe in a personal god... more of a set of sublime mathematical relations governing the interaction of matter and energy.
Obama was a Harvard Law Professor.
I've met quite a few super-IQ types (I studied physics)... not one of them was religious in any way.
Mention religion or a sincere belief in a personal god in a room full of career scientists and you'll get the same reaction any employee could expect recommending Santa as a company delivery service.
The upper limit for religious belief (in my experience) is an IQ of about 110. Some religious types apparently defy this convention... but it's important to differentiate between genuine IQ and disproportionately developed skill sets.
The Luke
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That's just the way it is. I don't think we will ever elect an atheist president (or even governor). Maybe small town mayor? Faith is just too ingrained in our society. Plus a large segment of the population apparently does not trust atheists.
lol
you don't think there have been any atheist leaders before ???
I bet plenty of people trust atheists and don't know it.
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Are you saying he practices Christianity but doesn't actually believe in Christianity?
Maybe Obama believes in Christianity the same way to Thomas Jefferson believed in it.
Maybe he know that even though Article 6 of the Constitution explicitly states that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." that we presently have a de facto religious test and if he wants to be POTUS then he has to play the game
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If Jesus were alive today he too would be an atheist...
The Luke
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...he's a little too clever to be a believing Christian.
Why are people surprised by this?
Less than 5% of PhD level physicists believe in ANY kind of higher power... among PhD level molecular biologists that number is under 1%. Among the physicists, even those who believe in some sort of higher intelligence don't believe in a personal god... more of a set of sublime mathematical relations governing the interaction of matter and energy.
Obama was a Harvard Law Professor.
I've met quite a few super-IQ types (I studied physics)... not one of them was religious in any way.
Mention religion or a sincere belief in a personal god in a room full of career scientists and you'll get the same reaction any employee could expect recommending Santa as a company delivery service.
The upper limit for religious belief (in my experience) is an IQ of about 110. Some religious types apparently defy this convention... but it's important to differentiate between genuine IQ and disproportionately developed skill sets.
The Luke
I'll create a separate thread about this, but you're pretty much calling Obama a liar. He has talked very openly about his faith and made no secret that he is a "true believer." (Not his quote.)
I know a plethora of highly intelligent people who believe in God and are devout Christians. Loco can chime in here if he happens to read this, but he has covered this pretty extensively on the religion board. I think McWay has too.
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Bum,
would you trust a doctor to perform surgery on yourself or one of your children if knew he/she was an atheist but also the absolute best doctor that you could find?
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I'll create a separate thread about this, but you're pretty much calling Obama a liar. He has talked very openly about his faith and no secret that he is a "true believer." (Not his quote.)
I know a plethora of highly intelligent people who believe in God and are devout Christians. Loco can chime in here if he happens to read this, but he has covered this pretty extensively on the religion board. I think McWay has too.
You don't know that Obama is a "true believer" in the same way that you define it for yourself.
Isn't he pro-choice? How does that fit it with your definition of a "true believer"?
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lol
you don't think there have been any atheist leaders before ???
I bet plenty of people trust atheists and don't know it.
Avowed atheists? No. Can you name one? Of course a person can lie about their faith, but that will be the only way an atheist is elected president IMO.
I have atheist friends and I trust them, although I wouldn't vote for them for president. :) I'm talking about the majority of Americans (if the polls are accurate).
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Bum,
would you trust a doctor to perform surgery on yourself or one of your children if knew he/she was an atheist but also the absolute best doctor that you could find?
Of course. I have never asked my doctor about his or her religious faith. But nice try. ::)
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Of course. I have never asked my doctor about his or her religious faith. But nice try. ::)
If faith doesn't matter with someone who literally has your life or the life of your child in their hands then why would it matter for any other job?
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You don't know that Obama is a "true believer" in the same way that you define it for yourself.
Isn't he pro-choice? How does that fit it with your definition of a "true believer"?
Go back and read what I said. He describes himself as a devout Christian.
Why the heck are you asking me so many ridiculous questions? (That's actually a rhetorical question.) Quit trying to find contradictions and quit trying to change the focus to me. ::)
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If faith doesn't matter with someone who literally has your life or the life of your child in their hands then why would it matter for any other job?
Who said faith doesn't matter? You asked a specific question about a surgeon. Like I said, I would never ask a surgeon about his religious beliefs.
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Who said faith doesn't matter? You asked a specific question about a surgeon. Like I said, I would never ask a surgeon about his religious beliefs.
Bum, can you for once avoid the game playing. If faith or religious belief or whatever else you want to call it does not matter for a surgeon who literally holds your life in their hands then why does it matter in a politician?
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I'll create a separate thread about this, but you're pretty much calling Obama a liar. He has talked very openly about his faith and no secret that he is a "true believer." (Not his quote.)
I know a plethora of highly intelligent people who believe in God and are devout Christians. Loco can chime in here if he happens to read this, but he has covered this pretty extensively on the religion board. I think McWay has too.
...no you don't.
As I said, even Jesus would be an atheist if he were alive today... Jesus predicted the end of the world within the first century, so by this stage he'd be pretty sure there is no god. Especially after space exploration has shown that there is neither a sea (as Genesis claims and the ancients believed) nor a heaven in outer space, and that's nothing in comparison to the strides in medical science (no possessing spirits that must be cast out etc)... and biology (the microbe theory of disease etc).
Obama isn't a liar for professing a belief in god... not any more than I am a liar when I profess my belief in Santa Claus in discussion with my seven year old niece.
The Luke
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...no you don't.
As I said, even Jesus would be an atheist if he were alive today... Jesus predicted the end of the world within the first century, so by this stage he'd be pretty sure there is no god. Especially after space exploration has shown that there is neither a sea (as Genesis claims and the ancients believed) nor a heaven in outer space, and that's nothing in comparison to the strides in medical science (no possessing spirits that must be cast out etc)... and biology (the microbe theory of disease etc).
Obama isn't a liar for professing a belief in god... not any more than I am a liar when I profess my belief in Santa Claus in discussion with my seven year old niece.
The Luke
Ta ta, boooooooom.
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...no you don't.
As I said, even Jesus would be an atheist if he were alive today... Jesus predicted the end of the world within the first century, so by this stage he'd be pretty sure there is no god. Especially after space exploration has shown that there is neither a sea (as Genesis claims and the ancients believed) nor a heaven in outer space, and that's nothing in comparison to the strides in medical science (no possessing spirits that must be cast out etc)... and biology (the microbe theory of disease etc).
Obama isn't a liar for professing a belief in god... not any more than I am a liar when I profess my belief in Santa Claus in discussion with my seven year old niece.
The Luke
good analogy - most fundie types have a very simplistic and child-like view of the world
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Bum, can you for once avoid the game playing. If faith or religious belief or whatever else you want to call it does not matter for a surgeon who literally holds your life in their hands then why does it matter in a politician?
I believe God uses people of all walks, faiths, no faith, etc., including surgeons. If for some reason my child needed surgery, I'm sure God could use an "atheist" surgeon, and I would certainly pray about it, along with a number of people.
I view the president in a different light, because he or she makes day-to-day decisions that could affect millions of people, if not the entire country. They are public figures and not involved in a purely private choice (unlike a surgeon). Not the same in my book. I would not feel comfortable voting for an atheist. And again, what does any of this have to do with Obama? Or whether an atheist can be elected president? Or whether the majority of Americans trust atheists?
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...no you don't.
As I said, even Jesus would be an atheist if he were alive today... Jesus predicted the end of the world within the first century, so by this stage he'd be pretty sure there is no god. Especially after space exploration has shown that there is neither a sea (as Genesis claims and the ancients believed) nor a heaven in outer space, and that's nothing in comparison to the strides in medical science (no possessing spirits that must be cast out etc)... and biology (the microbe theory of disease etc).
Obama isn't a liar for professing a belief in god... not any more than I am a liar when I profess my belief in Santa Claus in discussion with my seven year old niece.
The Luke
lol . . . So all of the professionals I know, many with advanced degrees, are stupid?
Obama didn't just profess a belief in God. He called himself a practicing Christian.
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I believe God uses people of all walks, faiths, no faith, etc., including surgeons. If for some reason my child needed surgery, I'm sure God could use an "atheist" surgeon, and I would certainly pray about it, along with a number of people.
I view the president in a different light, because he or she makes day-to-day decisions that could affect millions of people, if not the entire country. They are public figures and not involved in a purely private choice (unlike a surgeon). Not the same in my book. I would not feel comfortable voting an atheist. And again, what does any of this have to do with Obama? Or whether an atheist can be elected president? Or whether the majority of Americans trust atheists?
I didn't say it had anything to do with Obama. I posed the question so I could better understand your thought process. A surgeon holds a single life in his hands and a president holds millions and millions. I don't think volume makes one bit of difference. In fact, I'd prefer to have an atheist that doesn't rely on faith or belief in a higher spirit to make a crucial decision. George Bush is a man of faith (allegedly) and his God has allowed him to fuck up pretty much everything he does.
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Go back and read what I said. He describes himself as a devout Christian.
Why the heck are you asking me so many ridiculous questions? (That's actually a rhetorical question.) Quit trying to find contradictions and quit trying to change the focus to me. ::)
Questions are also called dialogue.
Stop being so full of yourself. A question directed to you is not changing the focus to you
You claim that Obama is a true believer but in the past you've suggested that anyone who doesn't share your specific beliefs (say about abortion or gay marriage) isn't really a christian.
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Jesus predicted the end of the world within the first century,
The Luke, could you please give a scripture reference for this?
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Questions are also called dialogue.
Stop being so full of yourself. A question directed to you is not changing the focus to you
You claim that Obama is a true believer but in the past you've suggested that anyone who doesn't share your specific beliefs (say about abortion or gay marriage) isn't really a christian.
I have never said anyone who doesn't share my specific beliefs isn't really a Christian. Baloney.
Not full of myself at all. Just don't trust you or your questions. You're disingenuous. Your intent (at least with me) is not dialog, but to try and find some kind of contradiction, particularly when it comes to your anti-religious extremism. I'm perfectly willing to have a dialogue with anyone who is sincere about talking story (as we say here).
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The Luke, could you please give a scripture reference for this?
...couldn't provide a scripture refernce, but I'm referring to Jesus comment that "Some of you here present today will see the [end times]" (someone here will find the verse and line)
Jesus was referring to the coming astrological alignment (a "Shenkinah": helical rising of Mercury and Venus on the equinox) that would lead the Jews to rise up in a violent (failed) revolt in 70 AD. This revolt was crushed by Titus and lead to the diaspora.
The early church fathers explained this inconsistency by claiming that the apostle Peter survived his own inverted crucifixion and became an immortal wandering prophet. (Cough... bullshit!... cough)
lol . . . So all of the professionals I know, many with advanced degrees, are stupid?
..I'd hazard a guess they aren't advanced degrees in science fields.
English literature (for example) is a legitimate field of study, but it doesn't provide an insight into the workings of reality the way a hard (numerate) science would. Hard scientists are ALL atheists.
Statistically speaking it would be unusual if you happened to only meet members of the minuscule subset of scientists who are actual believers.
Obama didn't just profess a belief in Good. He called himself a practicing Christian.
.. I'd like to see a chapter and verse on this.
The Luke
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I have never said anyone who doesn't share my specific beliefs isn't really a Christian. Baloney.
Not full of myself at all. Just don't trust you or your questions. You're disingenuous. Your intent (at least with me) is not dialog, but to try and find some kind of contradiction, particularly when it comes to your anti-religious extremism. I'm perfectly willing to have a dialogue with anyone who is sincere about talking story (as we say here).
You seem a bit paranoid and I've tried to ask you questions that don't disturb your delicate sensibilities.
Just because you claim I'm disingenious does not make it true. I'm not anti-religious (as I've explained to you repeatedly but still apply this statement to me and think it's true). I'm for freedom of all religious belief which includes the right to have no religion. The reason you are allowed to be an openly practising christian is because we have freedom religious belief and expression in this country and that is a good thing.
Here is a simple question. In your opinion - can one be a true christian (in whatever you believe that to be) and also believe in the right to abortion and/or gay marriage?
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...couldn't provide a scripture refernce, but I'm referring to Jesus comment that "Some of you here present today will see the [end times]" (someone here will find the verse and line)
Jesus was referring to the coming astrological alignment (a "Shenkinah": helical rising of Mercury and Venus on the equinox) that would lead the Jews to rise up in a violent (failed) revolt in 70 AD. This revolt was crushed by Titus and lead to the diaspora.
The early church fathers explained this inconsistency by claiming that the apostle Peter survived his own inverted crucifixion and became an immortal wandering prophet. (Cough... bullshit!... cough)
..I'd hazard a guess they aren't advanced degrees in science fields.
English literature (for example) is a legitimate field of study, but it doesn't provide an insight into the workings of reality the way a hard (numerate) science would. Hard scientists are ALL atheists.
Statistically speaking it would be unusual if you happened to only meet members of the minuscule subset of scientists who are actual believers.
.. I'd like to see a chapter and verse on this.
The Luke
Your guess is wrong. :) They are from all walks of life: education, medicine, science, law, etc. If you are contending that anyone who is a devout Christian is not intelligent, then that is pure hyperbole.
Chapter and verse concerning Obama would be right here: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=234274.0
Would be interested in your spin . . . I mean comments on this. :)
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Ther isn't any evidence of this.
Karl rove and other republicans put out this rumor. Obama denied it. He provided proof he was born in USA, and his grade-school record all the way back until kindergarten. There was a nasty rumor about 3 months back that he attended a muslim grade school. The school was looked at, and the story proven false.
So while many repubs keep saying he is - there isn't a bit of evidence to prove this. Clinton and Mccain would LOVE nothing more than outing him as a muslim. But so far - after 20 months of smears - it's still just something they say that they can't prove.
Karl Rove and others float one BIG rumor every month, and they all have turned out to be jsut that - rumors. They keep promising a whitey tape, proof his birth cert isn't valid (even tho the state of Hawaii says it is), etc. It's just politics as usual. I see people in my gym swearing Obama is a muslim... there isn't any proof. It's just his middle name, and you can't control what your parents name you.
You keep saying this is false, but how can you prove he is not? Do you know what is in his mind and heart? In the koran it say that the can hide their true identities to further their movement. So how is one to know. The fact that the is some suspected ties between him and muslims that is freaky!
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does it matter to you if he was muslim?
This country was founded on Christian belief. So yes it would make a difference!
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This country was founded on Christian belief. So yes it would make a difference!
Oh brother. ::)
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This country was founded on Christian belief. So yes it would make a difference!
not really but that seems to be a popular myth these days
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Your guess is wrong. :) They are from all walks of life: education, medicine, science, law, etc. If you are contending that anyone who is a devout Christian is not intelligent, then that is pure hyperbole.
...could you be more specific?
I remember a study surveying 200 people with IQs measured above 150 and not a single one of them believed in a higher power of any kind... and none of them were practicing religious traditionalists. Seemingly, only the soft subjects (arts) foster belief in a personal god.
Highly intelligent people who are truly devout in any religion is quite the rarity according to neuroscientists.
The Luke
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...could you be more specific?
I remember a study surveying 200 people with IQs measured above 150 and not a single one of them believed in a higher power of any kind... and none of them were practicing religious traditionalists. Seemingly, only the soft subjects (arts) foster belief in a personal god.
Highly intelligent people who are truly devout in any religion is quite the rarity according to neuroscientists.
The Luke
How many of them believed in bigfoot, chief?
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Oh brother. ::)
LOL I agree
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a politicians religious beliefs are irrelevant. They're only pandering. A politicians job is to make appearances. They're going to try to get the most support possible.
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This country was founded on Christian belief. So yes it would make a difference!
Absolute falsehood!
The USA was NOT founded on Christian belief, but Christians have been trying to spread that lie ever since!
This has been debated previously in this forum, ...however for some inexplicable reason, one of the General board mods with an agenda no doubt, sought to delete the post. I'm sure w8tlftr remembers it well tho.
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...could you be more specific?
I remember a study surveying 200 people with IQs measured above 150 and not a single one of them believed in a higher power of any kind... and none of them were practicing religious traditionalists. Seemingly, only the soft subjects (arts) foster belief in a personal god.
Highly intelligent people who are truly devout in any religion is quite the rarity according to neuroscientists.
The Luke
More specific in what way?
"Study" and "200 people" seems a little inconsistent to me. If you're going to rely on such a small sample to make such sweeping statements, then you should look at the fellows of the Discovery Institute. I didn't know anything about those folks till loco started talking about them, but they are highly educated, many with science degrees, and many of them not only believe in God, but also believe in "intelligent design." http://www.discovery.org/fellows/
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forget about the scientists,
why does a politicians religious belief matter?
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forget about the scientists,
why does a politicians religious belief matter?
Politics is a team sport for many. And you pick your side based on the colors: skin color (the color you are are or want to be), religion, willingness to subsidize corporate greed.
Forget any rational approach to the problems facing the country. It's why we're so fucked.
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this is fucked, such trivial things to pick a president & still no one will be satisfied.
People should change their criteria for presidential candidates.
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How many of them believed in bigfoot, chief?
At the moment the evidence is conclusive (just not incontrovertible): fingerprints; hair; footprints; audio; video; consistent foot anatomy; consistent sightings. Fossils were even recovered, just Google: "Gigantopithecus Blacki".
The FBI fingerprint expert Jimmy Chilcut (also one of the worlds pre-eminent primate dematoglyphic experts) has concluded that an unknown primate species is extant in North America... Jane Goodall (the chimp expert) has gone so far as to contend that several primate species and some hominid species remain to be discovered. Academic Dr Grover Krantz openly supported the existance of the North American Sasquatch right up until his death, my friend Dr Henner Fahrenbach has a collection of Sasquatch hairs and Dr Jeffrey Meldrum has written many scientific papers (and a book) on the subject.
In light of the facts that a new gorilla/chimp hybrid species was identified in 2003 (Google: Bili Ape or Bondo Mystery Ape)... that a recently extinct (possibly still extant) hominid species was also identified in 2003 (Google: Hobbit Man or Homo Floresiensis)... that a very recently extinct hominid species (Google: Palau Man) was identified from fossils in 2007... and that 80,000 previously undiscovered lowland gorillas were discovered in Congo only this year...
...it's pretty silly to attempt to disparage someones opinion based on a belief in "Bigfoot".
The Luke
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forget about the scientists,
why does a politicians religious belief matter?
People have a hard time doing that little thing called separating church and state.
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Jesus thinks Obama's tax plan is so unfair, he's very disappointed that his Christian soldiers may lose the right to bear assault rifles, and while he's quite tolerant of carousing, divorce, premarital sex, shotgun marriages and their ilk, he absolutely can't stand the notion that homosexuals might marry, or that women might want an abortion as a result of the carousing, divorce, premarital sex or shotgun marriages.
HTH
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You keep saying this is false, but how can you prove he is not? Do you know what is in his mind and heart? In the koran it say that the can hide their true identities to further their movement. So how is one to know. The fact that the is some suspected ties between him and muslims that is freaky!
TJ, how can I prove that Mccain wasn't brainwashed by the vietnamese? How can I prove that Palin isn't secretly a member of that cult fringe separist group that her husband belonged to for 10 years?
You cannot prove a negative.
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Jesus thinks Obama's tax plan is so unfair, he's very disappointed that his Christian soldiers may lose the right to bear assault rifles, and while he's quite tolerant of carousing, divorce, premarital sex, shotgun marriages and their ilk, he absolutely can't stand the notion that homosexuals might marry, or that women might want an abortion as a result of the carousing, divorce, premarital sex or shotgun marriages.
HTH
Man that post is fucking legendary! ;D
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Jesus is NOT a good role model...
He condoned slavery (never spoke out against it despite living in a slavery based society).
The Luke
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TJ, how can I prove that Mccain wasn't brainwashed by the vietnamese? How can I prove that Palin isn't secretly a member of that cult fringe separist group that her husband belonged to for 10 years?
You cannot prove a negative.
Good point. I my eyes McCain is the lesser of 2 evils.
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...couldn't provide a scripture refernce, but I'm referring to Jesus comment that "Some of you here present today will see the [end times]" (someone here will find the verse and line)
Jesus was referring to the coming astrological alignment (a "Shenkinah": helical rising of Mercury and Venus on the equinox) that would lead the Jews to rise up in a violent (failed) revolt in 70 AD. This revolt was crushed by Titus and lead to the diaspora.
Can't say I've heard your version of things there.
Are you talking about verses like:
Matthew 16:28
"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
???
It's interesting you reference "Shenkinah" (did you mean "Shekinah?") as the above verse is usually thought to be referring to the "Transfiguration."
Matthew 17:1-5
The Transfiguration
After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah."
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him.
She·ki·nah (sh-kn, --, -k-)
n. Judaism
A visible manifestation of the divine presence as described in Jewish theology.
Sorry if that's not the type of verse to which you're referring....
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The early church fathers explained this inconsistency by claiming that the apostle Peter survived his own inverted crucifixion and became an immortal wandering prophet. (Cough... bullshit!... cough)
I have to agree w/you that I do not believe this claim (and I don't see how it would explain the interpreted inconsistency in any case). By "early church" what do you mean?
(sorry mods, I realize you may need to split to relig)