Question for 240 regarding Obama.

[Laura Lee]

I know you are definitely involved in following politics and our presidential candidates.  I really am not although I admit I should be.

Last night I was told that Obama was a Muslim for 10 years.  Is/was he?

[240 is Back]

I know you are definitely involved in following politics and our presidential candidates.  I really am not although I admit I should be.

Last night I was told that Obama was a Muslim for 10 years.  Is/was he?

Ther isn't any evidence of this.

Karl rove and other republicans put out this rumor.  Obama denied it.  He provided proof he was born in USA, and his grade-school record all the way back until kindergarten.  There was a nasty rumor about 3 months back that he attended a muslim grade school.  The school was looked at, and the story proven false.

So while many repubs keep saying he is - there isn't a bit of evidence to prove this.  Clinton and Mccain would LOVE nothing more than outing him as a muslim.  But so far - after 20 months of smears - it's still just something they say that they can't prove.

Karl Rove and others float one BIG rumor every month, and they all have turned out to be jsut that - rumors.  They keep promising a whitey tape, proof his birth cert isn't valid (even tho the state of Hawaii says it is), etc.  It's just politics as usual.  I see people in my gym swearing Obama is a muslim... there isn't any proof.  It's just his middle name, and you can't control what your parents name you.

[Straw Man]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

[Laura Lee]

Ther isn't any evidence of this.

Karl rove and other republicans put out this rumor.  Obama denied it.  He provided proof he was born in USA, and his grade-school record all the way back until kindergarten.  There was a nasty rumor about 3 months back that he attended a muslim grade school.  The school was looked at, and the story proven false.

So while many repubs keep saying he is - there isn't a bit of evidence to prove this.  Clinton and Mccain would LOVE nothing more than outing him as a muslim.  But so far - after 20 months of smears - it's still just something they say that they can't prove.

Karl Rove and others float one BIG rumor every month, and they all have turned out to be jsut that - rumors.  They keep promising a whitey tape, proof his birth cert isn't valid (even tho the state of Hawaii says it is), etc.  It's just politics as usual.  I see people in my gym swearing Obama is a muslim... there isn't any proof.  It's just his middle name, and you can't control what your parents name you.

Do you think that they are holding back some kind of proof until last minute to shake everything up?  I just googled Snopes and there are so many different things in regards to it (between his father and his step father - being stated and claimed as false by Obama). 

[Laura Lee]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

Lol, I'm always a day late and a dollar short.

[Straw Man]

Lol, I'm always a day late and a dollar short.

I was talking to one of my neighbors last night and he still thinks Obama is a secret muslim. 

[MB_722]

Last night I was told that Obama was a Muslim for 10 years.  Is/was he?

does it matter to you if he was muslim?

[240 is Back]

it's possible they're going to wait until the last minute.  that's what they claim they're doing. 

However, if such evidence existed, hilary (seeing as Bill used to run the world) would have had access to it, and it surely would have leaked out, so that she could win the nomination.

[calmus]

Stella told me the reason Laura Lee is so interested is because laura lee recently converted to islam.

[Laura Lee]

does it matter to you if he was muslim?

It would for two reasons.  One, because (if he was) he denied it.  Two, I already believe that if he does become president I already fear for his life.  I'm far from being prejudice, so believe me, I am talking about this as a whole..not for me...I don't believe we're ready for a black president or female president.  I "personally" don't care who is president as long as the do what they had promised and run the country with the people of the United States in mind - first and foremost.

[The Luke]

It's impossible to be a "secret" Muslim....

Denial of Mohamed as Allah's greatest prophet and divine channel for "the final revelation" (ie: a Muslim denying himself as being a Muslim, or denying Islam) is considered tantamount to renouncing one's faith.

Read your Koran people...


If Obama is a secret anything, he's a secret atheist (like most intelligent people)... he never attending any church during his younger years and only joined a congregation when he opted to enter politics; he isn't in any way a fundamentalist (ie: Creationist) and is very careful in what he says about religion: "I believe in religion" not I believe in Jeebus... he talks about his "Faith", he doesn't assert the Bible as truth... etc. Lots of little giveaways.

It should be pretty obvious to observant voters that he is a "practicing Christian" rather than a "believing Christian"... most of the Founding fathers had some form of faith (mostly Masonic), but Christianity is little more than a required/traditional formality for modern politicians.


The Luke   

[Straw Man]

It's impossible to be a "secret" Muslim....

Denial of Mohamed as Allah's greatest prophet and divine channel for "the final revelation" (ie: a Muslim denying himself as being a Muslim, or denying Islam) is considered tantamount to renouncing one's faith.

Read your Koran people...


If Obama is a secret anything, he's a secret atheist (like most intelligent people)... he never attending any church during his younger years and only joined a congregation when he opted to enter politics; he isn't in any way a fundamentalist (ie: Creationist) and is very careful in what he says about religion: "I believe in religion" not I believe in Jeebus... he talks about his "Faith", he doesn't assert the Bible as truth... etc. Lots of little giveaways.

It should be pretty obvious to observant voters that he is a "practicing Christian" rather than a "believing Christian"... most of the Founding fathers had some form of faith (mostly Masonic), but Christianity is little more than a required/traditional formality for modern politicians.


The Luke   

excellent summation

[240 is Back]

yeah, it's true. 

Most people in power use god as a weapon to manuipulate the masses, but don't believe it personally.

I don't know what they know, that we don't...

[The Luke]

yeah, it's true. 

Most people in power use god as a weapon to manuipulate the masses, but don't believe it personally.

I don't know what they know, that we don't...

...eh, that it's a crock? Maybe?

There's as much evidence that True Adonis is god as there is evidence that Jeebus, Allah, Yahweh, Mithras, Attis, Tammuz, Bar Kochbah, Augustus Ceaser were/are god.


The Luke

[calmus]

Two, I already believe that if he does become president I already fear for his life.  I'm far from being prejudice, so believe me, I am talking about this as a whole..not for me...I don't believe we're ready for a black president or female president.  I "personally" don't care who is president as long as the do what they had promised and run the country with the people of the United States in mind - first and foremost.

That's mighty patronizing big of you to care so much about the well-being of an adult man who can make his own choices.

[calmus]

This is who Obama believes in.  Alec Baldwin is the shit. 

[Dos Equis]

It's impossible to be a "secret" Muslim....

Denial of Mohamed as Allah's greatest prophet and divine channel for "the final revelation" (ie: a Muslim denying himself as being a Muslim, or denying Islam) is considered tantamount to renouncing one's faith.

Read your Koran people...


If Obama is a secret anything, he's a secret atheist (like most intelligent people)... he never attending any church during his younger years and only joined a congregation when he opted to enter politics; he isn't in any way a fundamentalist (ie: Creationist) and is very careful in what he says about religion: "I believe in religion" not I believe in Jeebus... he talks about his "Faith", he doesn't assert the Bible as truth... etc. Lots of little giveaways.

It should be pretty obvious to observant voters that he is a "practicing Christian" rather than a "believing Christian"... most of the Founding fathers had some form of faith (mostly Masonic), but Christianity is little more than a required/traditional formality for modern politicians.


The Luke   

Are you saying he practices Christianity but doesn't actually believe in Christianity?   

[lovemonkey]

Are you saying he practices Christianity but doesn't actually believe in Christianity?   

Well wopedoo, is it possible to win the election as an atheist? No.

Is that ridiculous? Yes.

[Dos Equis]

Well wopedoo, is it possible to win the election as an atheist? No.

Is that ridiculous? Yes.

That's just the way it is.  I don't think we will ever elect an atheist president (or even governor).  Maybe small town mayor?  Faith is just too ingrained in our society.  Plus a large segment of the population apparently does not trust atheists. 

[The Luke]

Are you saying he practices Christianity but doesn't actually believe in Christianity?   

...he's a little too clever to be a believing Christian.

Why are people surprised by this?

Less than 5% of PhD level physicists believe in ANY kind of higher power... among PhD level molecular biologists that number is under 1%. Among the physicists, even those who believe in some sort of higher intelligence don't believe in a personal god... more of a set of sublime mathematical relations governing the interaction of matter and energy.

Obama was a Harvard Law Professor.

I've met quite a few super-IQ types (I studied physics)... not one of them was religious in any way.

Mention religion or a sincere belief in a personal god in a room full of career scientists and you'll get the same reaction any employee could expect recommending Santa as a company delivery service.

The upper limit for religious belief (in my experience) is an IQ of about 110. Some religious types apparently defy this convention... but it's important to differentiate between genuine IQ and disproportionately developed skill sets.


The Luke

[MB_722]

That's just the way it is.  I don't think we will ever elect an atheist president (or even governor).  Maybe small town mayor?  Faith is just too ingrained in our society.  Plus a large segment of the population apparently does not trust atheists. 

lol

you don't think there have been any atheist leaders before 

I bet plenty of people trust atheists and don't know it.

[Straw Man]

Are you saying he practices Christianity but doesn't actually believe in Christianity?   

Maybe Obama believes in Christianity the same way to Thomas Jefferson believed in it.

Maybe he know that even though Article 6 of the Constitution explicitly states that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." that we presently have a de facto religious test and if he wants to be POTUS then he has to play the game

[The Luke]

If Jesus were alive today he too would be an atheist...


The Luke

[Dos Equis]

...he's a little too clever to be a believing Christian.

Why are people surprised by this?

Less than 5% of PhD level physicists believe in ANY kind of higher power... among PhD level molecular biologists that number is under 1%. Among the physicists, even those who believe in some sort of higher intelligence don't believe in a personal god... more of a set of sublime mathematical relations governing the interaction of matter and energy.

Obama was a Harvard Law Professor.

I've met quite a few super-IQ types (I studied physics)... not one of them was religious in any way.

Mention religion or a sincere belief in a personal god in a room full of career scientists and you'll get the same reaction any employee could expect recommending Santa as a company delivery service.

The upper limit for religious belief (in my experience) is an IQ of about 110. Some religious types apparently defy this convention... but it's important to differentiate between genuine IQ and disproportionately developed skill sets.


The Luke

I'll create a separate thread about this, but you're pretty much calling Obama a liar.  He has talked very openly about his faith and made no secret that he is a "true believer."  (Not his quote.) 

I know a plethora of highly intelligent people who believe in God and are devout Christians.  Loco can chime in here if he happens to read this, but he has covered this pretty extensively on the religion board.  I think McWay has too.   

[Straw Man]

Bum,

would you trust a doctor to perform surgery on yourself or one of your children if knew he/she was an atheist but also the absolute best doctor that you could find?