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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: MattT on October 29, 2008, 07:17:23 PM

Title: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: MattT on October 29, 2008, 07:17:23 PM
If that time comes and at the moment it looks like its going to happen.  How will you feel knowing a black man is now your president?.  We've had 43 white presidents, whats the big deal with having one half black president?


Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on October 29, 2008, 07:21:48 PM
Why is Obama's skin color even an issue?

I don't know Coach but I'm pretty damn sure that if Obama was a true conservative he'd vote for him.

Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: MattT on October 29, 2008, 07:24:59 PM
Why is Obama's skin color even an issue?

I don't know Coach but I'm pretty damn sure that if Obama was a true conservative he'd vote for him.



i think race has a big deal to do with why people r not going to vote for him.  Its sad
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 29, 2008, 07:25:46 PM
yea, not sure why you raised race with coach?
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on October 29, 2008, 07:28:42 PM
i think race has a big deal to do with why people r not going to vote for him.  Its sad

Can you back that assumption up with hard numbers?

I can tell you that, in my case, his skin color has nothing to do with not getting my vote.

Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Busted on October 29, 2008, 07:45:26 PM
Why is Obama's skin color even an issue?

I don't know Coach but I'm pretty damn sure that if Obama was a true conservative he'd vote for him.



Because coach is racist...
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on October 29, 2008, 07:49:18 PM
Because coach is racist...

Because he's not voting for Obama?

When has he made a racist post here?

I mean, if I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it but I haven't seen it.



Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Busted on October 29, 2008, 07:51:07 PM
Because he's not voting for Obama?

When has he made a racist post here?

I mean, if I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it but I haven't seen it.





Coach says many things that are a obvious sign of someone who is racist, but doesnt hve the balls to say it, so they say other things that hint it. Go dig though his posts.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on October 29, 2008, 07:58:08 PM
Coach says many things that are a obvious sign of someone who is racist, but doesnt hve the balls to say it, so they say other things that hint it. Go dig though his posts.

So then this comes down to your interpretation of his posts?

The man makes a lot of posts here. I'm not going to lie to you and say I'm going to dig through the getbig archives.

I've been called a racist before because I'm a minority with conservative views. It's all a matter of a person's perception of what they want to believe is true.

Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Busted on October 29, 2008, 08:04:55 PM
So then this comes down to your interpretation of his posts?

The man makes a lot of posts here. I'm not going to lie to you and say I'm going to dig through the getbig archives.

I've been called a racist before because I'm a minority with conservative views. It's all a matter of a person's perception of what they want to believe is true.



I have many relatives that are racist, they dance around shit when im around.  Coach does the same shit, he hates blacks, hates mexicans, think they are all freeloaders and scum and its pretty obvious.  He hates the fact a Black man will be president.  he discredits the fact Obama worked his ass off to get where he was, built up tons of student loans, went to the best schools not because he was like the rest in the Ivy league, but because he was smarter than the rest. He could have went to NYC and became a millionaire right away practicing law instead he went to work for the community.  Coach discredits him for this... if Obama was WHITE, coach would go on and on how hard he worked for it.   But becasue hes Black coach cant stand it, so he trashes him in every way possible EXCEPT his race, because he doesn't have the balls to.  But its pretty damn obvious...

Coach is scum
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Straw Man on October 29, 2008, 08:06:09 PM
Why is Obama's skin color even an issue?

I don't know Coach but I'm pretty damn sure that if Obama was a true conservative he'd vote for him.



how do you define a true conservative?
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on October 29, 2008, 08:09:41 PM
I have many relatives that are racist, they dance around shit when im around.  Coach does the same shit, he hates blacks, hates mexicans, think they are all freeloaders and scum and its pretty obvious.  He hates the fact a Black man will be president.  he discredits the fact Obama worked his ass off to get where he was, built up tons of student loans, went to the best schools not because he was like the rest in the Ivy league, but because he was smarter than the rest. He could have went to NYC and became a millionaire right away practicing law instead he went to work for the community.  Coach discredits him for this... if Obama was WHITE, coach would go on and on how hard he worked for it.   But becasue hes Black coach cant stand it, so he trashes him in every way possible EXCEPT his race, because he doesn't have the balls to.  But its pretty damn obvious...

Coach is scum

I haven't seen it in his posts but I respect your opinion.

I do think that the "racist" label has been tossed around a lot just because someone doesn't support Obama.

Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Busted on October 29, 2008, 08:19:24 PM
I haven't seen it in his posts but I respect your opinion.

I do think that the "racist" label has been tossed around a lot just because someone doesn't support Obama.



Not at all.  I know McCain supporters who are not racist.  My best friend is Black and his Parents are DIE HARD Conservative Republicans. They are also both DRs, so they are republicans for economic Reasons...
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on October 29, 2008, 08:25:28 PM
how do you define a true conservative?

Probably the same as you, Straw Man. Fiscal responsibility (don't spend what you don't have), small and limited government, FAIR tax system, non-interventionalist foreign policy, individual liberty, freedom, and accountability, the usual conservative talking points.

You know, all the things the Republican party no longer is.

Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: drkaje on October 29, 2008, 08:33:44 PM
Probably the same as you, Straw Man. Fiscal responsibility (don't spend what you don't have), small and limited government, FAIR tax system, non-interventionalist foreign policy, individual liberty, freedom, and accountability, the usual conservative talking points.

You know, all the things the Republican party no longer is.



That's the problem. There aren't any true conservatives left in Washington. Anytime someone wants to trim the fat they chimp scream 911. Now both sides are spendaholics.

Take away abortion and assault weapons and you can't tell the difference between the parties anymore.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Straw Man on October 29, 2008, 08:56:17 PM
Probably the same as you, Straw Man. Fiscal responsibility (don't spend what you don't have), small and limited government, FAIR tax system, non-interventionalist foreign policy, individual liberty, freedom, and accountability, the usual conservative talking points.

You know, all the things the Republican party no longer is.

cool, I think we're in agreement

you didn't mention any "social" issues so I see you are a true conservative in the traditional sense

taxes definitely do suck

what should we cut first?
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: windsor88 on October 29, 2008, 09:32:36 PM
I have many relatives that are racist, they dance around shit when im around.  Coach does the same shit, he hates blacks, hates mexicans, think they are all freeloaders and scum and its pretty obvious.  He hates the fact a Black man will be president.  he discredits the fact Obama worked his ass off to get where he was, built up tons of student loans, went to the best schools not because he was like the rest in the Ivy league, but because he was smarter than the rest. He could have went to NYC and became a millionaire right away practicing law instead he went to work for the community.  Coach discredits him for this... if Obama was WHITE, coach would go on and on how hard he worked for it.   But becasue hes Black coach cant stand it, so he trashes him in every way possible EXCEPT his race, because he doesn't have the balls to.  But its pretty damn obvious...

Coach is scum

You got all that shit correct Busted.  Great job.  I think Coach is a good person but only if you are on his side of the issues. 
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: The Coach on October 29, 2008, 09:33:22 PM
Playing the race card Matt? I don't care if he Black, white, yellow, purple or whatever. As long as he or she is qualified....as he's far from it.

Hey Matt, if McCain wins and you going to riot and scream racism? If he does win I GUARANTY thats what will happen.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: The Coach on October 29, 2008, 09:40:44 PM
Busted, STFU. Can you, Matt and Windsor possibly talk out of your asses anymore. You fucking hide behind your computer and talk shit. Just bring race up makes you clowns the racists. Show yourself or take your narrow ass out of here.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: 240 is Back on October 29, 2008, 09:43:01 PM
Honestly guys, race doesn't matter in this election to most people.

it's an interesting factor - we may have a leader that breaks a new barrier - one we never thought we'd see.

But the reality is that after a week, we'll all forget about skin color and go back to bashing the shit out of Obama.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: MattT on October 30, 2008, 12:18:31 AM
Playing the race card Matt? I don't care if he Black, white, yellow, purple or whatever. As long as he or she is qualified....as he's far from it.

Hey Matt, if McCain wins and you going to riot and scream racism? If he does win I GUARANTY thats what will happen.

Coach do you think Palin is qualified to be president?  Don't you think if she had to have a meeting with Putin that hed be more interested in what kind of panties she's wearing and if she shaves down there?  :P  You think world leaders r going to take her serious? or be threatened by her?  they will mock Americans for being idiots if she becomes pres. 
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Nordic Superman on October 30, 2008, 03:04:42 AM
MattT is the racist here.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: danielson on October 30, 2008, 03:06:46 AM
MattT is the racist here.

X2. He is an idiot as well.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: 24KT on October 30, 2008, 03:18:38 AM
Coach do you think Palin is qualified to be president?  Don't you think if she had to have a meeting with Putin that hed be more interested in what kind of panties she's wearing and if she shaves down there?  :P  You think world leaders r going to take her serious? or be threatened by her?  they will mock Americans for being idiots if she becomes pres. 

Sad, ...but true.  :'(   Could you imagine her having to have a meeting with Berlusconi?
He'd probably try to hump on the board room table, or tell her to be useful by getting coffee or flashing her tits.  :-\
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Nordic Superman on October 30, 2008, 03:25:32 AM
Sad, ...but true.  :'(   Could you imagine her having to have a meeting with Berlusconi?
He'd probably try to hump on the board room table, or tell her to be useful by getting coffee or flashing her tits.  :-\

Could you imagine MattT knowing who Berlusconi is without resorting to a search engine? :D
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on October 30, 2008, 03:55:34 AM
cool, I think we're in agreement

you didn't mention any "social" issues so I see you are a true conservative in the traditional sense

taxes definitely do suck

what should we cut first?

Which tax?

I'd start with the income tax. I think (notice I didn't say feel) that the progressive tax is immoral and penalizes success when we should be rewarding those that work hard.

If you mean what part of the budget I'd start with the DoD, then cut or overhaul social programs, and stop giving countries that are not friendly to us our damn tax money.

That's a lot of money that can be used to rebuild our aging infrastructure and put towards the R&D alternative energy. I want the United States to be the world leader in that field and it would force countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Venezuela, and Russia to change their foreign policies towards the United States and it's allies.

And "social" issues are personal. You can't have liberty without freedom.

The only "social" issues I take a stand on are abortion and the death penalty. I think both are wrong.


Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: LurkerNoMore on October 30, 2008, 07:13:17 AM
It's not that Obama is black, it is that he is LIBERAL!!!!!!

Dem controlled Congress, Liberal controlled White House.  Liberal appointed justices to the S.C.  Gay marriage and adoption allowed, troops pulled out of Iraq.  And lots more good stuff.

How you gonna deal with that Coach?
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: headhuntersix on October 30, 2008, 07:26:53 AM
Oh yeah those are great things Lurker..fags with kids..great stuff. Liberal douchbags on the Supreme Court, wonderful. We're leaving Iraq regardless of the president....plenty of other war for Obama to miss manage. Funny thing is that if and when McCain looses, there won't be any rioting....because Republicans don't do that. If u idiot dems loose, u will whine about racism, burn cities, loot and do the usual stuff that dems do....The Repubs will go back to work.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: LurkerNoMore on October 30, 2008, 07:46:44 AM
So how are you going to cope with your boss being a black liberal Dem that supports homosexual agendas.

Hmmm?  8 years is a lonnnnnnggggg time to be employed by someone you don't like.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: headhuntersix on October 30, 2008, 07:56:49 AM
4 years dude...the president is in for 4 years and I'll be to busy cleaing up his mistakes. My next job will have me deployed 3 months and home 4 for the next 3 years so I won't have to worry about him so much anyway.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: LurkerNoMore on October 30, 2008, 08:17:14 AM
2 Terms = 8 years.

And deployed or not, he is still your BOSS.

Yes Sir, President Obama. Right away sir.        (that's you)

The entire course of American history will be shaped over his two terms thanks in part to the S.C. appointments.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: headhuntersix on October 30, 2008, 08:20:00 AM
Um..he gets one dipshit one term...one term. This guy won't get reelected. Obama is good for business. This guy will be so inept that I'll be employed up until i can barely walk. Once deployed I'm more worried abou my job and my troops then what this lib douchebag is doing.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: LurkerNoMore on October 30, 2008, 08:35:48 AM
Really?  Perhaps you can supply the link to where Obama said he is only going to serve one year.  Or maybe you can see the future.

No, you can't.  You can only hope.  8 years of Obamanation.

With this kind of math you are showing, I am surprised the army even entrusted  you in the capacity of a bean counter.  That is like one step above permanent latrine duty.

8 years.  8 years of serving under Boss Obama. 

Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: headhuntersix on October 30, 2008, 08:44:19 AM
Dude...the President gets one term moron...one then he has to get reelected. I'm sure this asshole will run again but by that time I'm sure America will see what a naive fraud this guy is and vote him out. Not only do u not know math...as one term is 4 years..u don't understand how our government works. I'm not a bean counter......thanks for playing.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: LurkerNoMore on October 30, 2008, 08:48:39 AM
The maximum terms one can be Prez is 2.

2 terms x 4 years each = 8 years.

If this is your example of logic and basic math demostration, no wonder you are sitting around in caves counting on your fingers and toes inventory.

Again, show me evidence of Obama only serving one term.  Hmm... where?  If the only candidates your party can scratch up is evident by this last round, there will always be a Dem in the White House for a long time to come.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: LurkerNoMore on October 30, 2008, 08:49:49 AM
But the question was... how are YOU going to feel that Obama is your boss.  Not just your President like the rest of us, but your BOSS!

He will command you.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: headhuntersix on October 30, 2008, 08:54:25 AM
Obama won't "command" me..besides the hate will keep me warm. It will be sorta fun to watch this guy um and ahh his way through the presidency. I hope I get a chance to meet him and tell him how I feel.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: LurkerNoMore on October 30, 2008, 09:17:58 AM
Obama will command you as long as you serve in the U.S. Military.

Period.  Full Stop.  End of Story.

Obama is your boss.  Yes sir President Obama.  Right away President Obama.  Anything you want sir.  Want me to count something for you sir?
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: CQ on October 30, 2008, 10:47:41 AM
Plenty of racists on the board, I would easily say Joe is *not* one. He is a madhatter Rush cut/pasting guy yes, but in no way shape or form do I see him as a racist. Apart from his delusional politics, I have always liked Joe.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Option D on October 30, 2008, 10:52:02 AM
Busted, STFU. Can you, Matt and Windsor possibly talk out of your asses anymore. You fucking hide behind your computer and talk shit. Just bring race up makes you clowns the racists. Show yourself or take your narrow ass out of here.


First off...MELTDOWN...

Secondly...dude i thought you were christian...WWJD
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Buffgeek on October 30, 2008, 10:55:39 AM
Even though I dont agree with his endorsement, I would have voted for Colin Powell Over Bush and or McCain.

Obama is half white. Hell he doesnt even have any SLAVE BLOOD!!!  ::)
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: LurkerNoMore on October 30, 2008, 11:31:08 AM
It's President Obama.

Start getting his name right.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: headhuntersix on October 30, 2008, 11:47:55 AM
Obama will command you as long as you serve in the U.S. Military.

Period.  Full Stop.  End of Story.

Obama is your boss.  Yes sir President Obama.  Right away President Obama.  Anything you want sir.  Want me to count something for you sir?

Dude..I'm not an accountant....I'm a tanker, door kicker..Info ops guy....i work with the media.....or more mundane shit in my current job but i'm almost done here and moving on to some fun stuff....I've never been a bean counter. Counting weapons as a tank platoon ldr in Bosnia does not make me a bean counter.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: LurkerNoMore on October 30, 2008, 12:11:32 PM
Especially when you have shown you are not very good with numbers.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Dos Equis on October 30, 2008, 12:17:09 PM
Coach says many things that are a obvious sign of someone who is racist, but doesnt hve the balls to say it, so they say other things that hint it. Go dig though his posts.

Nonsense.  I have never read any racist posts by Coach on this board.  Can you quote any? 
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: The Coach on October 30, 2008, 12:21:27 PM
I'd personally love to see Condelezza Rice as our President.....she's black and a women.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Straw Man on October 30, 2008, 04:34:12 PM
Which tax?

I'd start with the income tax. I think (notice I didn't say feel) that the progressive tax is immoral and penalizes success when we should be rewarding those that work hard.

If you mean what part of the budget I'd start with the DoD, then cut or overhaul social programs, and stop giving countries that are not friendly to us our damn tax money.

That's a lot of money that can be used to rebuild our aging infrastructure and put towards the R&D alternative energy. I want the United States to be the world leader in that field and it would force countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Venezuela, and Russia to change their foreign policies towards the United States and it's allies.

And "social" issues are personal. You can't have liberty without freedom.

The only "social" issues I take a stand on are abortion and the death penalty. I think both are wrong.

right on - you're consistent with the social issues which is pretty rare on this site.

why not cut payroll tax first - everyone pays that from dollar #1 so we would all share equally in the savings.

I think we have to spend our $$$'s here in the US as much as possible and definitely start updating and repairing our infrastructure.  There are many states that are literally selling their roads to foreign corporations because they don't have the revenue to maintain them.  Someday in the future we'll be paying a toll to a foreign country to use our own roads.

social programs are hugely expense and I think they can be reviewed from top to bottom to get rid of any waste, inefficiency and corruption.   I also think we have to stop the black hole of money that is the Iraq war and look at all other military spending as well (though obviously certain parts are essential and might even need more money).







Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Busted on October 30, 2008, 04:55:27 PM

First off...MELTDOWN...

Secondly...dude i thought you were christian...WWJD

LMAO. Coach is as much of a Christian as I am... LOL
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on October 30, 2008, 05:46:45 PM
right on - you're consistent with the social issues which is pretty rare on this site.

why not cut payroll tax first - everyone pays that from dollar #1 so we would all share equally in the savings.

I think we have to spend our $$$'s here in the US as much as possible and definitely start updating and repairing our infrastructure.  There are many states that are literally selling their roads to foreign corporations because they don't have the revenue to maintain them.  Someday in the future we'll be paying a toll to a foreign country to use our own roads.

social programs are hugely expense and I think they can be reviewed from top to bottom to get rid of any waste, inefficiency and corruption.   I also think we have to stop the black hole of money that is the Iraq war and look at all other military spending as well (though obviously certain parts are essential and might even need more money).


All good points, SM, but if we're going to look at the payroll tax (which everyone who works pays regardless of income) I'd look at revamping the social security program. Freedom is about choices, both good and bad, if people want to put the money they pay into the system in something like savings bonds then that should be their choice. IMO, the government has done a poor job of taking care of a program that is supposed to supplement one's retirement account. This way I wouldn't mind paying it so much if I knew I had more control over it. The way things are going now I'm going to get very little (if any at all) of what I've paid in and I'll be lucky if I live long enough to even collect it.




Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: LurkerNoMore on October 31, 2008, 07:17:48 AM
I'd personally love to see Condelezza Rice as our President.....she's black and a women.

Lesbian too.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: CQ on October 31, 2008, 07:31:24 AM
The only "social" issues I take a stand on are abortion and the death penalty. I think both are wrong.

See this I can respect.

When people love the death penalty, think shooting animals for fun is fantastic, think killing Iraqi's and other people is great - but then say they are "pro life" I miss that. Need some small type of consistency..
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: OzmO on October 31, 2008, 08:06:48 AM
See this I can respect.

When people love the death penalty, think shooting animals for fun is fantastic, think killing Iraqi's and other people is great - but then say they are "pro life" I miss that. Need some small type of consistency..



wow.  nice.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Dos Equis on October 31, 2008, 11:28:09 AM
See this I can respect.

When people love the death penalty, think shooting animals for fun is fantastic, think killing Iraqi's and other people is great - but then say they are "pro life" I miss that. Need some small type of consistency..


I don't see any inconsistency with being pro life and supporting the death penalty.  Here is the distinction IMO:

The 14th Amendment says in part:  "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

People who are executed are killed after "due process of law," which includes a trial, legal representation, a judge, jury, multiple appeals, and often requests for clemency. 

Unborn babies don't have those protections.   
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on October 31, 2008, 02:10:05 PM
I don't see any inconsistency with being pro life and supporting the death penalty.  Here is the distinction IMO:

The 14th Amendment says in part:  "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

People who are executed are killed after "due process of law," which includes a trial, legal representation, a judge, jury, multiple appeals, and often requests for clemency. 

Unborn babies don't have those protections.   


There are fates worse than death. IMO, the death penalty is an escape for those guilty of the heinous crime of murder.



Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Dos Equis on October 31, 2008, 02:16:05 PM
There are fates worse than death. IMO, the death penalty is an escape for those guilty of the heinous crime of murder.


It could be.  For some, I question whether this is true.  Take serial killers.  They don't have a conscience.  Are they really going to be sitting in jail being remorseful, when they in many instances killed over a long period of time? 
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on October 31, 2008, 02:24:28 PM
It could be.  For some, I question whether this is true.  Take serial killers.  They don't have a conscience.  Are they really going to be sitting in jail being remorseful, when they in many instances killed over a long period of time? 

Perhaps.... but humans are also social creatures.

I'd have no problem with a serial killer spending the remainder of his pathetic life in solitary confinement.

Now some may view that as cruel and unusual punishment. My answer it that is, "and the death penalty isn't?"

Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Dos Equis on October 31, 2008, 02:30:29 PM
Perhaps.... but humans are also social creatures.

I'd have no problem with a serial killer spending the remainder of his pathetic life in solitary confinement.

Now some may view that as cruel and unusual punishment. My answer it that is, "and the death penalty isn't?"



That's a common sentiment.  I completely understand.  That's why some killers get life instead of death.  That's why Susan Smith (?) got life without parole.  She is the woman from South Carolina (I think?) who drowned her two kids because her boyfriend didn't want kids.  She then held a press conference and blamed the disappearance of her kids on a black man.  She actually strapped her little kids in their seatbelts and drove the car into a lake. 

Someone like that deserves to die, and I would flip the switch myself for her, but I understand why they gave her life in prison. 
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on October 31, 2008, 02:34:16 PM
That's a common sentiment.  I completely understand.  That's why some killers get life instead of death.  That's why Susan Smith (?) got life without parole.  She is the woman from South Carolina (I think?) who drowned her two kids because her boyfriend didn't want kids.  She then held a press conference and blamed the disappearance of her kids on a black man.  She actually strapped her little kids in their seatbelts and drove the car into a lake. 

Someone like that deserves to die, and I would flip the switch myself for her, but I understand why they gave her life in prison. 


Well, think of it this way. She has the rest of her natural life to make peace with God and atone for her sins on Earth.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Dos Equis on October 31, 2008, 02:38:03 PM
Well, think of it this way. She has the rest of her natural life to make peace with God and atone for her sins on Earth.

Which includes a hot shower, three meals a day, a roof over her head, clean linen, a library, some recreation, and maybe even conjugal visits (not sure about the last one).  I'd rather she be put to sleep and let her make peace with God in the afterlife (if she believes in one).   
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on October 31, 2008, 02:41:54 PM
Which includes a hot shower, three meals a day, a roof over her head, clean linen, a library, some recreation, and maybe even conjugal visits (not sure about the last one).  I'd rather she be put to sleep and let her make peace with God in the afterlife (if she believes in one).   

Vengeance is the Lord's.



Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Dos Equis on October 31, 2008, 02:44:12 PM
Vengeance is the Lord's.





True, when it comes to her eternal salvation (if she believes in that stuff).  But passing and enforcing the laws of the land is the responsibility of the people of this great country. 
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on October 31, 2008, 02:45:50 PM
True, when it comes to her eternal salvation (if she believes in that stuff).  But passing and enforcing the laws of the land is the responsibility of the people of this great country. 

So then you're comfortable with your government executing it's own citizens? That doesn't creep you out one little bit?
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Dos Equis on October 31, 2008, 02:56:16 PM
So then you're comfortable with your government executing it's own citizens? That doesn't creep you out one little bit?


Yes I'm comfortable.  No it doesn't creep me out one bit, so long as we have safeguards in place.  Some crimes deserve the ultimate penalty.  Personally, I'd include first degree murder, rape (excluding date rape), and child molestation in the group of crimes that deserve the ultimate penalty.   
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on October 31, 2008, 06:25:24 PM
Yes I'm comfortable.  No it doesn't creep me out one bit, so long as we have safeguards in place.  Some crimes deserve the ultimate penalty.  Personally, I'd include first degree murder, rape (excluding date rape), and child molestation in the group of crimes that deserve the ultimate penalty.   

I wonder how many innocent men have been executed with those safeguards in place. I'm sure 99.999 percent of those murdered by the state are guilty as sin but it only takes the life of one innocent to put a black mark on the system.

Also, if you're going to execute for crimes like rape, why exclude date rape? Rape is rape. And since we're letting the government go on a killing spree let's toss in CEOs that fucked their stockholders and employees over then got billions of our tax dollars. I don't think anyone will miss them.

Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Dos Equis on October 31, 2008, 07:11:56 PM
I wonder how many innocent men have been executed with those safeguards in place. I'm sure 99.999 percent of those murdered by the state are guilty as sin but it only takes the life of one innocent to put a black mark on the system.

Also, if you're going to execute for crimes like rape, why exclude date rape? Rape is rape. And since we're letting the government go on a killing spree let's toss in CEOs that fucked their stockholders and employees over then got billions of our tax dollars. I don't think anyone will miss them.



Not to get all technical, but execution isn't murder.

I'm unaware of any innocent person being executed.  There have been innocent people on death row, but none actually executed that I've heard. 

Rape isn't just rape, just like murder isn't just murder, when it comes to punishment.  We don't punish all types of murder the same way (e.g., no death penalty for second degree murder or for manslaughter).  I'd do the same with date rape, because it really is often a he said, she said crime that involves some consensual activity.  Just my personal view. 

People who screw folks over for money should go to prison. 
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on October 31, 2008, 07:25:18 PM
Not to get all technical, but execution isn't murder.

I'm unaware of any innocent person being executed.  There have been innocent people on death row, but none actually executed that I've heard. 

Rape isn't just rape, just like murder isn't just murder, when it comes to punishment.  We don't punish all types of murder the same way (e.g., no death penalty for second degree murder or for manslaughter).  I'd do the same with date rape, because it really is often a he said, she said crime that involves some consensual activity.  Just my personal view. 

People who screw folks over for money should go to prison. 


What is the cause of death on the death certificate of an executed inmate?

Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: 24KT on November 01, 2008, 07:55:04 AM
Dude..I'm not an accountant....I'm a tanker, door kicker..Info ops guy....i work with the media.....or more mundane shit in my current job but i'm almost done here and moving on to some fun stuff....I've never been a bean counter. Counting weapons as a tank platoon ldr in Bosnia does not make me a bean counter.

Are you saying that now that Bush will be out of office, and a Democrat will be Prez, the jig is up?  ???
The people (except maybe Coach) are smarter than "they" thought, and there's no more need for shills in web forums?
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: 24KT on November 01, 2008, 08:11:42 AM
Execution isn't murder and date rape isn't rape? You're fucked!

in many cases date rape can be worse than a random rape because it involves a betrayal of trust.

I dare you to go explain to your daughter how date rape isn't rape. I hope she spits in your face!  >:(
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on November 01, 2008, 09:10:12 AM
Execution isn't murder and date rape isn't rape? You're fucked!

in many cases date rape can be worse than a random rape because it involves a betrayal of trust.

I dare you to go explain to your daughter how date rape isn't rape. I hope she spits in your face!  >:(

IMO rape is one of the most psychologically scarring things that can be done to a woman.

I'd have a hard time not acting out in vengeance if anyone ever raped my wife or daughter. Odds are I'd fail and kill them anyways and find a way to morally justify my actions.

Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Busted on November 01, 2008, 09:41:16 AM
See this I can respect.

When people love the death penalty, think shooting animals for fun is fantastic, think killing Iraqi's and other people is great - but then say they are "pro life" I miss that. Need some small type of consistency..


Good post... Iv often wondered that... Pro life / Anti Abortion but pro War/ pro hunting...  Thats like being a Jew being a Kosher Pig Farmer
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Dos Equis on November 01, 2008, 06:08:51 PM
What is the cause of death on the death certificate of an executed inmate?



I don't know.  Never seen one.  What is it? 
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Dos Equis on November 01, 2008, 06:17:12 PM
Execution isn't murder and date rape isn't rape? You're fucked!

in many cases date rape can be worse than a random rape because it involves a betrayal of trust.

I dare you to go explain to your daughter how date rape isn't rape. I hope she spits in your face!  >:(

Why don't you go back and read what I said a little closer.  I was talking about punishment.  Our society doesn't treat all murder the same way when it comes to punishment.  We don't execute people who commit second degree murder of manslaughter.   

By the same token, in terms of punishment, I don't view rape and date rape the same.  I have no problem locking up a person who is guilty of date rape, but I'd have a problem executing that person.  I think any other kind of rapist, particularly child rapists, should be executed.

Also, you have to keep in mind the astronomically high number of false rape claims.  For example:

That false allegations are a major problem has been confirmed by several prominent prosecutors, including Linda Fairstein, who heads the New York County District Attorney's Sex Crimes Unit. Fairstein, the author of "Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape," says, "there are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen."

http://www.americandaily.com/article/5075

   
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on November 01, 2008, 07:46:20 PM
I don't know.  Never seen one.  What is it? 

Homicide.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Dos Equis on November 01, 2008, 07:55:24 PM
Homicide.

Sounds accurate to me.  It’s not a suicide.  :)  Homicide is the killing of a person by another person.  Doesn't necessarily mean the killing was unlawful.  An execution is the justified killing of a person.  It's no more a "murder" than the killing of another in self defense, which isn't murder either.     
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on November 01, 2008, 07:57:20 PM
Sounds accurate to me.  It’s not a suicide.  :)  Homicide is the killing of a person by another person.  Doesn't necessarily mean the killing was unlawful.  An execution is the justified killing of a person.  It's no more a "murder" than the killing of another in self defense, which isn't murder either.     

It's still state sponsored murder.

Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Dos Equis on November 01, 2008, 07:59:31 PM
It's still state sponsored murder.



It's a state sponsored killing.  Murder is an unlawful killing.  Executions aren't unlawful. 
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on November 01, 2008, 08:03:47 PM
It's a state sponsored killing.  Murder is an unlawful killing.  Executions aren't unlawful. 

Anyway you look at it we are allowing our government to kill it's own citizens.

You're okay with that. I'm not. We'll just agree to disagree.

Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Dos Equis on November 01, 2008, 08:10:44 PM
Anyway you look at it we are allowing our government to kill it's own citizens.

You're okay with that. I'm not. We'll just agree to disagree.



I know we disagree on whether the government should execute people.  No biggie.  Not all states agree on the subject.  We don't have the death penalty in Hawaii.  I was talking about characterizing executions as murder. 
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on November 01, 2008, 09:31:01 PM
I know we disagree on whether the government should execute people.  No biggie.  Not all states agree on the subject.  We don't have the death penalty in Hawaii.  I was talking about characterizing executions as murder. 

I thought that is what the disagreement was.  :-\
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Dos Equis on November 01, 2008, 10:21:23 PM
I thought that is what the disagreement was.  :-\

We were actually discussing two issues:  whether the government should execute people and whether executions are murder.  The last several exchanges were just about whether execution is murder.   
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: CQ on November 02, 2008, 06:44:45 AM
I know we disagree on whether the government should execute people.  No biggie.  Not all states agree on the subject.  We don't have the death penalty in Hawaii.  I was talking about characterizing executions as murder. 

Ever seen a legal death cert for an executed inmate? Ever seen what your gov states as official cause of death ;)
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Straw Man on November 02, 2008, 07:28:13 AM
All good points, SM, but if we're going to look at the payroll tax (which everyone who works pays regardless of income) I'd look at revamping the social security program. Freedom is about choices, both good and bad, if people want to put the money they pay into the system in something like savings bonds then that should be their choice. IMO, the government has done a poor job of taking care of a program that is supposed to supplement one's retirement account. This way I wouldn't mind paying it so much if I knew I had more control over it. The way things are going now I'm going to get very little (if any at all) of what I've paid in and I'll be lucky if I live long enough to even collect it.

I don't think there is any problem with social security with one huge exception being the fact that the Bush and other presidents keep raiding the funds to fill in gaps in their budgets
25% of Bush's 2008 Budget comes from $$$$ borrowed from the Social Security Trust Fund.  http://useconomy.about.com/b/2007/02/11/fy-2008-budget-borrows-674-billion-from-social-security.htm

Regarding the overall effectiveness of the program Krugman explains it better than I ever could: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/28/about-the-social-security-trust-fund/
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: w8tlftr on November 02, 2008, 07:34:39 AM
I don't think there is any problem with social security with one huge exception being the fact that the Bush and other presidents keep raiding the funds to fill in gaps in their budgets
25% of Bush's 2008 Budget comes from $$$$ borrowed from the Social Security Trust Fund.  http://useconomy.about.com/b/2007/02/11/fy-2008-budget-borrows-674-billion-from-social-security.htm

Regarding the overall effectiveness of the program Krugman explains it better than I ever could: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/28/about-the-social-security-trust-fund/

Interesting article.... but I still lack faith in our politicians.

Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Straw Man on November 02, 2008, 07:36:39 AM
Interesting article.... but I still lack faith in our politicians.

I'm with you on that.
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: Dos Equis on November 02, 2008, 10:18:10 AM
Ever seen a legal death cert for an executed inmate? Ever seen what your gov states as official cause of death ;)

No, but if you look the rest of the thread, you'll see my explanation of how homicide is not necessarily synonymous with murder. 
Title: Re: Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?
Post by: bigdumbbell on November 02, 2008, 10:50:23 AM
I have many relatives that are racist, they dance around shit when im around.  Coach does the same shit, he hates blacks, hates mexicans, think they are all freeloaders and scum and its pretty obvious.  He hates the fact a Black man will be president.  he discredits the fact Obama worked his ass off to get where he was, built up tons of student loans, went to the best schools not because he was like the rest in the Ivy league, but because he was smarter than the rest. He could have went to NYC and became a millionaire right away practicing law instead he went to work for the community.  Coach discredits him for this... if Obama was WHITE, coach would go on and on how hard he worked for it.   But becasue hes Black coach cant stand it, so he trashes him in every way possible EXCEPT his race, because he doesn't have the balls to.  But its pretty damn obvious...

Coach is scum
he hates mexicans, does he hate himself too?