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Title: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: OzmO on October 30, 2008, 08:18:57 AM
WASHINGTON — A University of Texas poll to be released today shows Republican presidential candidate John McCain and GOP Sen. John Cornyn leading by comfortable margins in Texas, as expected. But the statewide survey of 550 registered voters has one very surprising finding: 23 percent of Texans are convinced that Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama is a Muslim.

Obama is a Christian who was embroiled in a controversy earlier this year about his two-decade membership in Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ. Yet just 45 percent of those polled identified the Illinois senator as a Protestant.

The Obama-is-a-Muslim confusion is caused by fallacious Internet rumors and radio talk-show gossip. McCain went so far at one of his town hall meetings to grab a microphone from a woman who claimed that Obama was an Arab.

The Texas numbers are unusual because most national polls show that just 5 to 10 percent of Americans still believe Obama is a Muslim — less than half the number of Texans who buy into the debunked theories.

The UT poll shows McCain running ahead of Obama statewide, with a 51 percent to 40 percent margin. Cornyn, a first-term Republican from San Antonio, leads Rick Noriega, a state representative from Houston, 45 percent to 36 percent. Another 14 percent of voters remain undecided in the contest.

The poll found that 89 percent of Lone Star State voters say the country's economic situation is worse than a year ago. And President Bush and Congress both get record low marks.

Just 34 percent of Texans approve of Bush's job performance — a big change for a former governor who won re-election 10 years ago with 70 percent of the vote. And Congress is even more unpopular: Just 8 percent of Texas voters approve of the work being done on Capitol Hill.

The telephone poll was conducted by the Texas Politics Project and Department of Government at The University of Texas at Austin. The poll was conducted from Oct. 15 to 22, and had a margin of error of 4.2 percentage points.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6084678.html (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6084678.html)


So many stupid people in the world.....
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 30, 2008, 09:34:23 AM
WASHINGTON — A University of Texas poll to be released today shows Republican presidential candidate John McCain and GOP Sen. John Cornyn leading by comfortable margins in Texas, as expected. But the statewide survey of 550 registered voters has one very surprising finding: 23 percent of Texans are convinced that Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama is a Muslim.

Obama is a Christian who was embroiled in a controversy earlier this year about his two-decade membership in Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ. Yet just 45 percent of those polled identified the Illinois senator as a Protestant.

The Obama-is-a-Muslim confusion is caused by fallacious Internet rumors and radio talk-show gossip. McCain went so far at one of his town hall meetings to grab a microphone from a woman who claimed that Obama was an Arab.

The Texas numbers are unusual because most national polls show that just 5 to 10 percent of Americans still believe Obama is a Muslim — less than half the number of Texans who buy into the debunked theories.

The UT poll shows McCain running ahead of Obama statewide, with a 51 percent to 40 percent margin. Cornyn, a first-term Republican from San Antonio, leads Rick Noriega, a state representative from Houston, 45 percent to 36 percent. Another 14 percent of voters remain undecided in the contest.

The poll found that 89 percent of Lone Star State voters say the country's economic situation is worse than a year ago. And President Bush and Congress both get record low marks.

Just 34 percent of Texans approve of Bush's job performance — a big change for a former governor who won re-election 10 years ago with 70 percent of the vote. And Congress is even more unpopular: Just 8 percent of Texas voters approve of the work being done on Capitol Hill.

The telephone poll was conducted by the Texas Politics Project and Department of Government at The University of Texas at Austin. The poll was conducted from Oct. 15 to 22, and had a margin of error of 4.2 percentage points.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6084678.html (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6084678.html)


So many stupid people in the world.....

He was born a muslim.  When did he convert?  Was he baptized?  When, where, and by whom?
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Busted on October 30, 2008, 09:39:04 AM
He was born a muslim.  When did he convert?  Was he baptized?  When, where, and by whom?

You should be hit in the head for being so fucking dumb.  Religion is something learned not a Gene you are born with. How the FUCK are you "born" a religion.

Ahhh why dont you go do some research on when he got baptized.  People like you make the GOP look retarded.
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: OzmO on October 30, 2008, 09:39:46 AM
He was born a muslim.  When did he convert?  Was he baptized?  When, where, and by whom?

No one is born any type of religion   ::)

Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 30, 2008, 09:43:10 AM
No one is born any type of religion   ::)



His father was a muslim and by islamic law, the child is the religion of the father.  He went to a muslim school as a child in indonesia.

Do you people not know this????
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: 240 is Back on October 30, 2008, 09:53:01 AM
His father was a muslim and by islamic law,

So you follow islamic law, even if obama does not?
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Busted on October 30, 2008, 09:55:41 AM
His father was a muslim and by islamic law, the child is the religion of the father.  He went to a muslim school as a child in indonesia.

Do you people not know this????

LOL... You are a dumb guy...  He met his dad when he was 10... He went to a PUBLIC School for 2 years in Indonesia..  Do you hear something once and even if it is proven false, you still believe it?
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 30, 2008, 09:56:21 AM
So you follow islamic law, even if obama does not?

He was brought up as a muslim.  At some point he converted, it is not known when.
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: drkaje on October 30, 2008, 09:58:06 AM
That stat changes my opinion on abortion.
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: OzmO on October 30, 2008, 10:04:04 AM
His father was a muslim and by islamic law,


So what?

Quote
the child is the religion of the father.  

the child is what ever religion the child choses to be.   I'm a salesmen, so is my sona born salesman?    that's how stupid your assertion is.

Additionally, is Islamic law the Word of GOD?   NO. 
Quote
He went to a muslim school as a child in indonesia.

So what?  i went to catholic school and i'm NOT a catholic.

People's beliefs are not preordain by birth.  

that's just fvcking stupid

Get some common sense and pull your head out of the middle ages.
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: OzmO on October 30, 2008, 10:09:39 AM
LOL... You are a dumb ####...  He met his dad when he was 10... He went to a PUBLIC School for 2 years in Indonesia..  Do you hear something once and even if it is proven false, you still believe it?

He's like one of the 23% of texans who believe he's muslim by birth and islamic law.  What do you expect?   ::)
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Straw Man on October 30, 2008, 10:23:36 AM
let's hope those 23% are too dumb or to drunk to make it to the polls.

They would be the perfect demographic to call and tell them that election day was moved to Wednesday .....oh wait, that's a Republican thing
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Dos Equis on October 30, 2008, 11:30:44 AM
No one is born any type of religion   ::)



I disagree.  Take a Catholic family.  They baptize babies in the Catholic church.  They have Catholic elementary and high schools.  A person who is baptized as a baby, attends mass every week, and attends Catholic school is essentially "born" Catholic. 

Also, kids typically don't choose their own religion.  They are generally whatever religion their parents are and that starts from birth for most "religious" kids.  They're in Sunday School at around age 2, sometimes younger. 
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Fury on October 30, 2008, 11:32:04 AM
Polls find that the only things that come from Texas are steers and queers, and Obama doesn't very much look like a steer.....
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Straw Man on October 30, 2008, 11:44:16 AM
I disagree.  Take a Catholic family.  They baptize babies in the Catholic church.  They have Catholic elementary and high schools.  A person who is baptized as a baby, attends mass every week, and attends Catholic school is essentially "born" Catholic. 

Also, kids typically don't choose their own religion.  They are generally whatever religion their parents are and that starts from birth for most "religious" kids.  They're in Sunday School at around age 2, sometimes younger. 

CCD starts around school age, usually first grade right before first communion

confirmation is around 8th grade (though sometimes earlier)


Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Fury on October 30, 2008, 11:47:09 AM

Additionally, is Islamic law the Word of GOD?   NO. 


Tell that to the Muslims who would love to blow you up or cut your head off.  ;)

Obama should be executed under the Koran. You can't go and "un-Islam" yourself. Allah don't play that game!

ALLAHU AKBAR!!!!! ALLAHU AKBARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: headhuntersix on October 30, 2008, 11:50:51 AM
I think he's considered an apostate by some sects.....ask some shitbag from the Taliban and I think they'd consider him a former muslim shitbag....I think he's an opportunist and would worship Barney the purple dinosaur if it would get him elected. His former, neverwas, might be...religion is not really an issue to me.....its his politics man, politics...that drive me nuts.
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Straw Man on October 30, 2008, 11:52:34 AM
The girl who cuts my hair is Muslim and she usually uses a straight razor to shave my hairy Italian neck

I guess I've cheated death ~ 200 times in the last few years
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: OzmO on October 30, 2008, 11:53:24 AM
I disagree.  Take a Catholic family.  They baptize babies in the Catholic church.  They have Catholic elementary and high schools.  A person who is baptized as a baby, attends mass every week, and attends Catholic school is essentially "born" Catholic. 

Also, kids typically don't choose their own religion.  They are generally whatever religion their parents are and that starts from birth for most "religious" kids.  They're in Sunday School at around age 2, sometimes younger. 


You aren't born anything.  does a baby accept Christ as his/her savior?   no.    What you are describing is a person being raised catholic.   Was Obama raised Muslim?  If so, how long and how intensely was he raised muslim?  Did his parents practice Islam fully and to the law?   Did he continue to practice Islam after he passed the age of accountability?

That's Why the assertion that Obama was born a muslim is absurd beyond measure.
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: OzmO on October 30, 2008, 11:54:51 AM
Tell that to the Muslims who would love to blow you up or cut your head off.  ;)

Obama should be executed under the Koran. You can't go and "un-Islam" yourself. Allah don't play that game!

ALLAHU AKBAR!!!!! ALLAHU AKBARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are not understanding my point.   33333 said by Islamic law he was born a muslim.  Islam is NOt the Word of God.  therefore he was not born a muslim.
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Option D on October 30, 2008, 11:58:00 AM
You should be hit in the head for being so fucking dumb.  Religion is something learned not a Gene you are born with. How the FUCK are you "born" a religion.

Ahhh why dont you go do some research on when he got baptized.  People like you make the GOP look retarded.
lmao
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Dos Equis on October 30, 2008, 12:05:41 PM
You aren't born anything.  does a baby accept Christ as his/her savior?   no.    What you are describing is a person being raised catholic.   Was Obama raised Muslim?  If so, how long and how intensely was he raised muslim?  Did his parents practice Islam fully and to the law?   Did he continue to practice Islam after he passed the age of accountability?

That's Why the assertion that Obama was born a muslim is absurd beyond measure.

I'm not talking about Obama.  I don't know or care what his religion was at birth, etc.  I'm just addressing your contention that a person isn't "born" a certain religion.  This might be splitting hairs, but what I described is essentially a person being "born" a certain religion.  When a person is indoctrinated from the time they are able to sit upright and often before they can even talk, that's effectively being a certain religion since birth.

For example, my oldest kid could pray before she could talk.  So, yes she was trained, but she was trained since birth.  It really is a distinction without a difference IMO.   
 
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Busted on October 30, 2008, 12:11:23 PM
I disagree.  Take a Catholic family.  They baptize babies in the Catholic church.  They have Catholic elementary and high schools.  A person who is baptized as a baby, attends mass every week, and attends Catholic school is essentially "born" Catholic. 

Also, kids typically don't choose their own religion.  They are generally whatever religion their parents are and that starts from birth for most "religious" kids.  They're in Sunday School at around age 2, sometimes younger. 


And when that child hits the age of reason, they leave the Catholic church. So all that was pointless...

Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Straw Man on October 30, 2008, 12:19:33 PM
I'm not talking about Obama.  I don't know or care what his religion was at birth, etc.  I'm just addressing your contention that a person isn't "born" a certain religion.  This might be splitting hairs, but what I described is essentially a person being "born" a certain religion.  When a person is indoctrinated from the time they are able to sit upright and often before they can even talk, that's effectively being a certain religion since birth.

For example, my oldest kid could pray before she could talk.  So, yes she trained, but she was trained since birth.  It really is a distinction without a difference IMO.   
 

how the hell do you pray before you can talk?

how do you even know what it means to pray?

Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: CQ on October 30, 2008, 12:21:28 PM
Firstly, who cares what someone is.

Secondly. good to see the electorate is so educated and informed.
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Dos Equis on October 30, 2008, 12:21:45 PM
And when that child hits the age of reason, they leave the Catholic church. So all that was pointless...



Not the point.  
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Dos Equis on October 30, 2008, 12:23:47 PM
how the hell do you pray before you can talk?

how do you even know what it means to pray?



She could fold her hands, say some baby jibberish, and say "Amen."  :)  Extremely smart kid.  She was probably around 18 months old (possibly younger), if I recall correctly.   
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: OzmO on October 30, 2008, 12:30:14 PM
I'm not talking about Obama.  I don't know or care what his religion was at birth, etc.  I'm just addressing your contention that a person isn't "born" a certain religion.  This might be splitting hairs, but what I described is essentially a person being "born" a certain religion.  When a person is indoctrinated from the time they are able to sit upright and often before they can even talk, that's effectively being a certain religion since birth.

For example, my oldest kid could pray before she could talk.  So, yes she trained, but she was trained since birth.  It really is a distinction without a difference IMO.   
 

What defines a person a muslim, christian, hindu, etc.?  Not that they are born that way.  Everythind you have described is being raised muslim, christian, hindu, etc. after birth.

that's why thinking someone is born a certain religion or profession is ludicrous.

Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Straw Man on October 30, 2008, 12:31:26 PM
She could fold her hands, say some baby jibberish, and say "Amen."  :)  Extremely smart kid.  She was probably around 18 months old (possibly younger), if I recall correctly.   

so saying baby jibberish is the equivalent of praying in your world?

Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Dos Equis on October 30, 2008, 12:41:28 PM
What defines a person a muslim, christian, hindu, etc.?  Not that they are born that way.  Everythind you have described is being raised muslim, christian, hindu, etc. after birth.

that's why thinking someone is born a certain religion or profession is ludicrous.



When does that religious training start?  For many it starts at birth, so it's not ludicrous at all.  I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not talking about anything genetic.  This is something that starts with many kids before they can talk, and in the case of Catholics when the baby is christened as an infant.

So yes I am describing how a person is raised, but it happens for many so early in life that it really doesn't matter whether you want to call it "born that way" or "raised that way."  It's not even the kid's choice.   
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Straw Man on October 30, 2008, 12:44:54 PM
When does that religious training start?  For many it starts at birth, so it's not ludicrous at all.  I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not talking about anything genetic.  This is something that starts with many kids before they can talk, and in the case of Catholics when the baby is christened as an infant.

So yes I am describing how a person is raised, but it happens for many so early in life that it really doesn't matter whether you want to call it "born that way" or "raised that way."  It's not even the kid's choice.    


is that how it was for your kids?
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: OzmO on October 30, 2008, 12:49:27 PM
When does that religious training start?  For many it starts at birth, so it's not ludicrous at all. 

Yes that's extremely ludicrous.  Religious training at birth.   ::)  Yeah like the infant understands the scripture being read to him/her while the cord is being cut!  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA H

People are born one of 2 things:   BOYS or GIRLS

Quote
So yes I am describing how a person is raised, but it happens for many so early in life that it really doesn't matter whether you want to call it "born that way" or "raised that way."  It's not even the kid's choice.

Yeah it does matter because it's grossly incorrect.

EVERYTHING you have described relates to being raised.

 Imagine the dismay when a Christian Family gives birth to a Muslim.  ;D
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Dos Equis on October 30, 2008, 12:51:43 PM
Yes that's extremely ludicrous.  Religious training at birth.   ::) 

People are born one of 2 things:   BOYS or GIRLS

Yeah it does matter because it's grossly incorrect.

EVERYTHING you have described relates to being raised.

 Imagine the dismay when a Christian Family gives birth to a Muslim.  ;D

I'm not talking about genetics.  As I said, it's really a distinction without a difference.

You've apparently never seen parents take their babies to Sunday School.   :)
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: OzmO on October 30, 2008, 12:54:17 PM
I'm not talking about genetics.  As I said, it's really a distinction without a difference.

You've apparently never seen parents take their babies to Sunday School.   :)

Yeah and the babies understand whats being taught.   ::)   

Aside from that, those are far removed from being born. 

Religious training at birth.   Yeah like the infant understands the scripture being read to him/her while the cord is being cut!  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA H
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Dos Equis on October 30, 2008, 01:00:19 PM
Yeah and the babies understand whats being taught.   ::)   

Aside from that, those are far removed from being born. 

Religious training at birth.   Yeah like the infant understands the scripture being read to him/her while the cord is being cut!  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA H

You're missing the point.  Of course they don't understand everything.  They start understanding many things at around 6 months.  They understand what you're saying about many things before 12 months.  Many of them can talk before age 2.  Do they understand scripture?  No.  That's stupid and I didn't say that.  But I can see you really don't want to have a serious discussion, so I won't waste my time.     

In any event, you should go to church sometime, early, and visit the classes where these toddlers are.  You might learn something.   :) 
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Decker on October 30, 2008, 01:11:52 PM
I wish he was Muslim.  That matters only to the right people.  It don't mean a thing to our political system.

This is the trivia that occupies our political discourse.
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Straw Man on October 30, 2008, 01:16:42 PM
You're missing the point.  Of course they don't understand everything.  They start understanding many things at around 6 months.  They understand what you're saying about many things before 12 months.  Many of them can talk before age 2.  Do they understand scripture?  No.  That's stupid and I didn't say that.  But I can see you really don't want to have a serious discussion, so I won't waste my time.     

In any event, you should go to church sometime, early, and visit the classes where these toddlers are.  You might learn something.   :) 

I seriously doubt that kids even at the ages of grade school can really have a good understanding of the concept of a God at least to the same level of fear that the adults carry around with them

That the reason why the Catholics have confirmation at ~ 8th grade.  
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: The Coach on October 30, 2008, 01:19:16 PM
I wish he was Muslim.  That matters only to the right people.  It don't mean a thing to our political system.

This is the trivia that occupies our political discourse.


I'd venture to say he is since he never renounced it.
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Dos Equis on October 30, 2008, 01:22:04 PM
I wish he was Muslim.  That matters only to the right people.  It don't mean a thing to our political system.

This is the trivia that occupies our political discourse.


Doesn't matter to me either.  The only thing I would care about is dishonesty (if he lied about it). 
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: OzmO on October 30, 2008, 01:26:32 PM
You're missing the point.  Of course they don't understand everything.  They start understanding many things at around 6 months.  They understand what you're saying about many things before 12 months.  Many of them can talk before age 2.  Do they understand scripture?  No.  That's stupid and I didn't say that.  But I can see you really don't want to have a serious discussion, so I won't waste my time.     

In any event, you should go to church sometime, early, and visit the classes where these toddlers are.  You might learn something.   :) 

You mean i might learn the ridiculous notion that people are born Muslim?    ::)


You still fail to under the distinction between being raised and being born.

I'd agree with you about the raising part.  But to say Born, is again, silly.   
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: 240 is Back on October 30, 2008, 01:29:07 PM
Doesn't matter to me either.  The only thing I would care about is dishonesty (if he lied about it). 

good call.
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Dos Equis on October 30, 2008, 01:29:14 PM
I seriously doubt that kids even at the ages of grade school can really have a good understanding of the concept of a God at least to the same level of fear that the adults carry around with them

That the reason why the Catholics have confirmation at ~ 8th grade.  

I don't know Christians who walk around in fear.  That aside, kids are extremely smart.  They are able to grasp the concept of God very early in life.  A complete understanding and appreciation?  No.  But their basic understanding starts very early in life.  

As I mentioned, Catholics baptize babies.  

But groups like Baptists don't, because they believe a person should be at the "age of accountability" and make a conscious decision to get baptized.  
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: OzmO on October 30, 2008, 01:32:37 PM
Catholics don't baptize babies at birth.  Another important distinction. 
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Dos Equis on October 30, 2008, 01:34:23 PM
Catholics don't baptize babies at birth.  Another important distinction. 

Yeah they wait a whole month.  lol.  Another distinction without a difference. 
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Straw Man on October 30, 2008, 01:35:50 PM
I don't know Christians who walk around in fear.  That aside, kids are extremely smart.  They are able to grasp the concept of God very early in life.  A complete understanding and appreciation?  No.  But their basic understanding starts very early in life.  

As I mentioned, Catholics baptize babies.  

But groups like Baptists don't, because they believe a person should be at the "age of accountability" and make a conscious decision to get baptized.  


Catholics are aware that kids go through motions, pretend to do stuff to please their parents and really aren't capable of understanding or making such choice at a young age.  That's why they have confirmation at ~ 14.  At the point the child has to choose to be a member of the church.   You go to classes, have a sponsor and eventually get confirmed.  I remember because when I was this age, after going through all the classes I decided I didn't want to go through with confirmation and, as would be expected, my very Catholic parents would have none of that and I was pretty much forced to do it.....which I pointed out kind of defeats the whole purpose of the sacrament.
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: OzmO on October 30, 2008, 01:40:40 PM
Yeah they wait a whole month.  lol.  Another distinction without a difference. 

Some do, while others wait longer.   However the distinction stands, they are far from being born.

Other than that, it still doesn't make the baby anything other than a boy or girl.  Save, what every other people might think the baby is. 
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Dos Equis on October 30, 2008, 01:43:40 PM
Catholics are aware that kids go through motions, pretend to do stuff to please their parents and really aren't capable of understanding or making such choice at a young age.  That's why they have confirmation at ~ 14.  At the point the child has to choose to be a member of the church.   You go to classes, have a sponsor and eventually get confirmed.  I remember because when I was this age, after going through all the classes I decided I didn't want to go through with confirmation and, as would be expected, my very Catholic parents would have none of that and I was pretty much forced to do it.....which I pointed out kind of defeats the whole purpose of the sacrament.


How old were you when you started going to classes? 
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Decker on October 30, 2008, 01:44:13 PM
I'd venture to say he is since he never renounced it.
Enquiring minds want to know.
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Straw Man on October 30, 2008, 01:44:47 PM
Yeah they wait a whole month.  lol.  Another distinction without a difference. 

Bum - you seem clueless about Catholics.  Unbaptized babies can never go to heaven with some might consider to be a HUGE difference.

This changed recently, but upbaptized babies had to go a a make believe place called Limbo.  

A few years ago there was talk that the church was going to "cancel" Limbo (and George Carlins joke about it was that he hoped all those babies got promoted to heaven and weren't just cut loose in space).  I don't know if this ever got done or even exactly how (magic wand perhaps?)  
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Dos Equis on October 30, 2008, 01:53:44 PM
Bum - you seem clueless about Catholics.  Unbaptized babies can never go to heaven with some might consider to be a HUGE difference.

This changed recently, but upbaptized babies had to go a a make believe place called Limbo.  

A few years ago there was talk that the church was going to "cancel" Limbo (and George Carlins joke about it was that he hoped all those babies got promoted to heaven and weren't just cut loose in space).  I don't know if this ever got done or even exactly how (magic wand perhaps?)  


That's not why I mentioned the baptism of babies.  I was making the point that religious training/indoctrination starts at birth for many.  I specifically mentioned Catholics, because they baptize babies, send kids to mass, and can send them to Catholic school from Kindergarten through college.

I was not addressing whether any of that is appropriate, at what age a kid actually makes a commitment to become a practicing Catholic, whether a kid goes to heaven, etc.  Completely different subject(s).     
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: big L dawg on October 30, 2008, 01:59:42 PM
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: Straw Man on October 30, 2008, 02:00:07 PM
How old were you when you started going to classes? 

CCD starts before first communion (though it's been long time so maybe that wasn't actually CCD but some precursor)

Confirmation is ~ 8th grade and is a very big deal (assuming one actually takes it seriously)

I noticed early on that the Church would prefer you just shut up and not ask too many questions
Title: Re: Poll finds 23% of Texans think Obama is Muslim
Post by: big L dawg on October 30, 2008, 02:01:11 PM
christian,muslim are all the same to me