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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: OzmO on October 30, 2008, 08:18:57 AM
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WASHINGTON — A University of Texas poll to be released today shows Republican presidential candidate John McCain and GOP Sen. John Cornyn leading by comfortable margins in Texas, as expected. But the statewide survey of 550 registered voters has one very surprising finding: 23 percent of Texans are convinced that Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama is a Muslim.
Obama is a Christian who was embroiled in a controversy earlier this year about his two-decade membership in Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ. Yet just 45 percent of those polled identified the Illinois senator as a Protestant.
The Obama-is-a-Muslim confusion is caused by fallacious Internet rumors and radio talk-show gossip. McCain went so far at one of his town hall meetings to grab a microphone from a woman who claimed that Obama was an Arab.
The Texas numbers are unusual because most national polls show that just 5 to 10 percent of Americans still believe Obama is a Muslim — less than half the number of Texans who buy into the debunked theories.
The UT poll shows McCain running ahead of Obama statewide, with a 51 percent to 40 percent margin. Cornyn, a first-term Republican from San Antonio, leads Rick Noriega, a state representative from Houston, 45 percent to 36 percent. Another 14 percent of voters remain undecided in the contest.
The poll found that 89 percent of Lone Star State voters say the country's economic situation is worse than a year ago. And President Bush and Congress both get record low marks.
Just 34 percent of Texans approve of Bush's job performance — a big change for a former governor who won re-election 10 years ago with 70 percent of the vote. And Congress is even more unpopular: Just 8 percent of Texas voters approve of the work being done on Capitol Hill.
The telephone poll was conducted by the Texas Politics Project and Department of Government at The University of Texas at Austin. The poll was conducted from Oct. 15 to 22, and had a margin of error of 4.2 percentage points.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6084678.html (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6084678.html)
So many stupid people in the world.....
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WASHINGTON — A University of Texas poll to be released today shows Republican presidential candidate John McCain and GOP Sen. John Cornyn leading by comfortable margins in Texas, as expected. But the statewide survey of 550 registered voters has one very surprising finding: 23 percent of Texans are convinced that Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama is a Muslim.
Obama is a Christian who was embroiled in a controversy earlier this year about his two-decade membership in Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ. Yet just 45 percent of those polled identified the Illinois senator as a Protestant.
The Obama-is-a-Muslim confusion is caused by fallacious Internet rumors and radio talk-show gossip. McCain went so far at one of his town hall meetings to grab a microphone from a woman who claimed that Obama was an Arab.
The Texas numbers are unusual because most national polls show that just 5 to 10 percent of Americans still believe Obama is a Muslim — less than half the number of Texans who buy into the debunked theories.
The UT poll shows McCain running ahead of Obama statewide, with a 51 percent to 40 percent margin. Cornyn, a first-term Republican from San Antonio, leads Rick Noriega, a state representative from Houston, 45 percent to 36 percent. Another 14 percent of voters remain undecided in the contest.
The poll found that 89 percent of Lone Star State voters say the country's economic situation is worse than a year ago. And President Bush and Congress both get record low marks.
Just 34 percent of Texans approve of Bush's job performance — a big change for a former governor who won re-election 10 years ago with 70 percent of the vote. And Congress is even more unpopular: Just 8 percent of Texas voters approve of the work being done on Capitol Hill.
The telephone poll was conducted by the Texas Politics Project and Department of Government at The University of Texas at Austin. The poll was conducted from Oct. 15 to 22, and had a margin of error of 4.2 percentage points.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6084678.html (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6084678.html)
So many stupid people in the world.....
He was born a muslim. When did he convert? Was he baptized? When, where, and by whom?
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He was born a muslim. When did he convert? Was he baptized? When, where, and by whom?
You should be hit in the head for being so fucking dumb. Religion is something learned not a Gene you are born with. How the FUCK are you "born" a religion.
Ahhh why dont you go do some research on when he got baptized. People like you make the GOP look retarded.
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He was born a muslim. When did he convert? Was he baptized? When, where, and by whom?
No one is born any type of religion ::)
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No one is born any type of religion ::)
His father was a muslim and by islamic law, the child is the religion of the father. He went to a muslim school as a child in indonesia.
Do you people not know this????
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His father was a muslim and by islamic law,
So you follow islamic law, even if obama does not?
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His father was a muslim and by islamic law, the child is the religion of the father. He went to a muslim school as a child in indonesia.
Do you people not know this????
LOL... You are a dumb guy... He met his dad when he was 10... He went to a PUBLIC School for 2 years in Indonesia.. Do you hear something once and even if it is proven false, you still believe it?
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So you follow islamic law, even if obama does not?
He was brought up as a muslim. At some point he converted, it is not known when.
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That stat changes my opinion on abortion.
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His father was a muslim and by islamic law,
So what?
the child is the religion of the father.
the child is what ever religion the child choses to be. I'm a salesmen, so is my sona born salesman? that's how stupid your assertion is.
Additionally, is Islamic law the Word of GOD? NO.
He went to a muslim school as a child in indonesia.
So what? i went to catholic school and i'm NOT a catholic.
People's beliefs are not preordain by birth.
that's just fvcking stupid
Get some common sense and pull your head out of the middle ages.
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LOL... You are a dumb ####... He met his dad when he was 10... He went to a PUBLIC School for 2 years in Indonesia.. Do you hear something once and even if it is proven false, you still believe it?
He's like one of the 23% of texans who believe he's muslim by birth and islamic law. What do you expect? ::)
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let's hope those 23% are too dumb or to drunk to make it to the polls.
They would be the perfect demographic to call and tell them that election day was moved to Wednesday .....oh wait, that's a Republican thing
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No one is born any type of religion ::)
I disagree. Take a Catholic family. They baptize babies in the Catholic church. They have Catholic elementary and high schools. A person who is baptized as a baby, attends mass every week, and attends Catholic school is essentially "born" Catholic.
Also, kids typically don't choose their own religion. They are generally whatever religion their parents are and that starts from birth for most "religious" kids. They're in Sunday School at around age 2, sometimes younger.
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Polls find that the only things that come from Texas are steers and queers, and Obama doesn't very much look like a steer.....
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I disagree. Take a Catholic family. They baptize babies in the Catholic church. They have Catholic elementary and high schools. A person who is baptized as a baby, attends mass every week, and attends Catholic school is essentially "born" Catholic.
Also, kids typically don't choose their own religion. They are generally whatever religion their parents are and that starts from birth for most "religious" kids. They're in Sunday School at around age 2, sometimes younger.
CCD starts around school age, usually first grade right before first communion
confirmation is around 8th grade (though sometimes earlier)
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Additionally, is Islamic law the Word of GOD? NO.
Tell that to the Muslims who would love to blow you up or cut your head off. ;)
Obama should be executed under the Koran. You can't go and "un-Islam" yourself. Allah don't play that game!
ALLAHU AKBAR!!!!! ALLAHU AKBARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I think he's considered an apostate by some sects.....ask some shitbag from the Taliban and I think they'd consider him a former muslim shitbag....I think he's an opportunist and would worship Barney the purple dinosaur if it would get him elected. His former, neverwas, might be...religion is not really an issue to me.....its his politics man, politics...that drive me nuts.
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The girl who cuts my hair is Muslim and she usually uses a straight razor to shave my hairy Italian neck
I guess I've cheated death ~ 200 times in the last few years
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I disagree. Take a Catholic family. They baptize babies in the Catholic church. They have Catholic elementary and high schools. A person who is baptized as a baby, attends mass every week, and attends Catholic school is essentially "born" Catholic.
Also, kids typically don't choose their own religion. They are generally whatever religion their parents are and that starts from birth for most "religious" kids. They're in Sunday School at around age 2, sometimes younger.
You aren't born anything. does a baby accept Christ as his/her savior? no. What you are describing is a person being raised catholic. Was Obama raised Muslim? If so, how long and how intensely was he raised muslim? Did his parents practice Islam fully and to the law? Did he continue to practice Islam after he passed the age of accountability?
That's Why the assertion that Obama was born a muslim is absurd beyond measure.
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Tell that to the Muslims who would love to blow you up or cut your head off. ;)
Obama should be executed under the Koran. You can't go and "un-Islam" yourself. Allah don't play that game!
ALLAHU AKBAR!!!!! ALLAHU AKBARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are not understanding my point. 33333 said by Islamic law he was born a muslim. Islam is NOt the Word of God. therefore he was not born a muslim.
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You should be hit in the head for being so fucking dumb. Religion is something learned not a Gene you are born with. How the FUCK are you "born" a religion.
Ahhh why dont you go do some research on when he got baptized. People like you make the GOP look retarded.
lmao
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You aren't born anything. does a baby accept Christ as his/her savior? no. What you are describing is a person being raised catholic. Was Obama raised Muslim? If so, how long and how intensely was he raised muslim? Did his parents practice Islam fully and to the law? Did he continue to practice Islam after he passed the age of accountability?
That's Why the assertion that Obama was born a muslim is absurd beyond measure.
I'm not talking about Obama. I don't know or care what his religion was at birth, etc. I'm just addressing your contention that a person isn't "born" a certain religion. This might be splitting hairs, but what I described is essentially a person being "born" a certain religion. When a person is indoctrinated from the time they are able to sit upright and often before they can even talk, that's effectively being a certain religion since birth.
For example, my oldest kid could pray before she could talk. So, yes she was trained, but she was trained since birth. It really is a distinction without a difference IMO.
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I disagree. Take a Catholic family. They baptize babies in the Catholic church. They have Catholic elementary and high schools. A person who is baptized as a baby, attends mass every week, and attends Catholic school is essentially "born" Catholic.
Also, kids typically don't choose their own religion. They are generally whatever religion their parents are and that starts from birth for most "religious" kids. They're in Sunday School at around age 2, sometimes younger.
And when that child hits the age of reason, they leave the Catholic church. So all that was pointless...
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I'm not talking about Obama. I don't know or care what his religion was at birth, etc. I'm just addressing your contention that a person isn't "born" a certain religion. This might be splitting hairs, but what I described is essentially a person being "born" a certain religion. When a person is indoctrinated from the time they are able to sit upright and often before they can even talk, that's effectively being a certain religion since birth.
For example, my oldest kid could pray before she could talk. So, yes she trained, but she was trained since birth. It really is a distinction without a difference IMO.
how the hell do you pray before you can talk?
how do you even know what it means to pray?
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Firstly, who cares what someone is.
Secondly. good to see the electorate is so educated and informed.
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And when that child hits the age of reason, they leave the Catholic church. So all that was pointless...
Not the point.
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how the hell do you pray before you can talk?
how do you even know what it means to pray?
She could fold her hands, say some baby jibberish, and say "Amen." :) Extremely smart kid. She was probably around 18 months old (possibly younger), if I recall correctly.
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I'm not talking about Obama. I don't know or care what his religion was at birth, etc. I'm just addressing your contention that a person isn't "born" a certain religion. This might be splitting hairs, but what I described is essentially a person being "born" a certain religion. When a person is indoctrinated from the time they are able to sit upright and often before they can even talk, that's effectively being a certain religion since birth.
For example, my oldest kid could pray before she could talk. So, yes she trained, but she was trained since birth. It really is a distinction without a difference IMO.
What defines a person a muslim, christian, hindu, etc.? Not that they are born that way. Everythind you have described is being raised muslim, christian, hindu, etc. after birth.
that's why thinking someone is born a certain religion or profession is ludicrous.
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She could fold her hands, say some baby jibberish, and say "Amen." :) Extremely smart kid. She was probably around 18 months old (possibly younger), if I recall correctly.
so saying baby jibberish is the equivalent of praying in your world?
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What defines a person a muslim, christian, hindu, etc.? Not that they are born that way. Everythind you have described is being raised muslim, christian, hindu, etc. after birth.
that's why thinking someone is born a certain religion or profession is ludicrous.
When does that religious training start? For many it starts at birth, so it's not ludicrous at all. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not talking about anything genetic. This is something that starts with many kids before they can talk, and in the case of Catholics when the baby is christened as an infant.
So yes I am describing how a person is raised, but it happens for many so early in life that it really doesn't matter whether you want to call it "born that way" or "raised that way." It's not even the kid's choice.
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When does that religious training start? For many it starts at birth, so it's not ludicrous at all. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not talking about anything genetic. This is something that starts with many kids before they can talk, and in the case of Catholics when the baby is christened as an infant.
So yes I am describing how a person is raised, but it happens for many so early in life that it really doesn't matter whether you want to call it "born that way" or "raised that way." It's not even the kid's choice.
is that how it was for your kids?
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When does that religious training start? For many it starts at birth, so it's not ludicrous at all.
Yes that's extremely ludicrous. Religious training at birth. ::) Yeah like the infant understands the scripture being read to him/her while the cord is being cut! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA H
People are born one of 2 things: BOYS or GIRLS
So yes I am describing how a person is raised, but it happens for many so early in life that it really doesn't matter whether you want to call it "born that way" or "raised that way." It's not even the kid's choice.
Yeah it does matter because it's grossly incorrect.
EVERYTHING you have described relates to being raised.
Imagine the dismay when a Christian Family gives birth to a Muslim. ;D
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Yes that's extremely ludicrous. Religious training at birth. ::)
People are born one of 2 things: BOYS or GIRLS
Yeah it does matter because it's grossly incorrect.
EVERYTHING you have described relates to being raised.
Imagine the dismay when a Christian Family gives birth to a Muslim. ;D
I'm not talking about genetics. As I said, it's really a distinction without a difference.
You've apparently never seen parents take their babies to Sunday School. :)
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I'm not talking about genetics. As I said, it's really a distinction without a difference.
You've apparently never seen parents take their babies to Sunday School. :)
Yeah and the babies understand whats being taught. ::)
Aside from that, those are far removed from being born.
Religious training at birth. Yeah like the infant understands the scripture being read to him/her while the cord is being cut! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA H
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Yeah and the babies understand whats being taught. ::)
Aside from that, those are far removed from being born.
Religious training at birth. Yeah like the infant understands the scripture being read to him/her while the cord is being cut! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA H
You're missing the point. Of course they don't understand everything. They start understanding many things at around 6 months. They understand what you're saying about many things before 12 months. Many of them can talk before age 2. Do they understand scripture? No. That's stupid and I didn't say that. But I can see you really don't want to have a serious discussion, so I won't waste my time.
In any event, you should go to church sometime, early, and visit the classes where these toddlers are. You might learn something. :)
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I wish he was Muslim. That matters only to the right people. It don't mean a thing to our political system.
This is the trivia that occupies our political discourse.
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You're missing the point. Of course they don't understand everything. They start understanding many things at around 6 months. They understand what you're saying about many things before 12 months. Many of them can talk before age 2. Do they understand scripture? No. That's stupid and I didn't say that. But I can see you really don't want to have a serious discussion, so I won't waste my time.
In any event, you should go to church sometime, early, and visit the classes where these toddlers are. You might learn something. :)
I seriously doubt that kids even at the ages of grade school can really have a good understanding of the concept of a God at least to the same level of fear that the adults carry around with them
That the reason why the Catholics have confirmation at ~ 8th grade.
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I wish he was Muslim. That matters only to the right people. It don't mean a thing to our political system.
This is the trivia that occupies our political discourse.
I'd venture to say he is since he never renounced it.
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I wish he was Muslim. That matters only to the right people. It don't mean a thing to our political system.
This is the trivia that occupies our political discourse.
Doesn't matter to me either. The only thing I would care about is dishonesty (if he lied about it).
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You're missing the point. Of course they don't understand everything. They start understanding many things at around 6 months. They understand what you're saying about many things before 12 months. Many of them can talk before age 2. Do they understand scripture? No. That's stupid and I didn't say that. But I can see you really don't want to have a serious discussion, so I won't waste my time.
In any event, you should go to church sometime, early, and visit the classes where these toddlers are. You might learn something. :)
You mean i might learn the ridiculous notion that people are born Muslim? ::)
You still fail to under the distinction between being raised and being born.
I'd agree with you about the raising part. But to say Born, is again, silly.
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Doesn't matter to me either. The only thing I would care about is dishonesty (if he lied about it).
good call.
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I seriously doubt that kids even at the ages of grade school can really have a good understanding of the concept of a God at least to the same level of fear that the adults carry around with them
That the reason why the Catholics have confirmation at ~ 8th grade.
I don't know Christians who walk around in fear. That aside, kids are extremely smart. They are able to grasp the concept of God very early in life. A complete understanding and appreciation? No. But their basic understanding starts very early in life.
As I mentioned, Catholics baptize babies.
But groups like Baptists don't, because they believe a person should be at the "age of accountability" and make a conscious decision to get baptized.
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Catholics don't baptize babies at birth. Another important distinction.
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Catholics don't baptize babies at birth. Another important distinction.
Yeah they wait a whole month. lol. Another distinction without a difference.
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I don't know Christians who walk around in fear. That aside, kids are extremely smart. They are able to grasp the concept of God very early in life. A complete understanding and appreciation? No. But their basic understanding starts very early in life.
As I mentioned, Catholics baptize babies.
But groups like Baptists don't, because they believe a person should be at the "age of accountability" and make a conscious decision to get baptized.
Catholics are aware that kids go through motions, pretend to do stuff to please their parents and really aren't capable of understanding or making such choice at a young age. That's why they have confirmation at ~ 14. At the point the child has to choose to be a member of the church. You go to classes, have a sponsor and eventually get confirmed. I remember because when I was this age, after going through all the classes I decided I didn't want to go through with confirmation and, as would be expected, my very Catholic parents would have none of that and I was pretty much forced to do it.....which I pointed out kind of defeats the whole purpose of the sacrament.
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Yeah they wait a whole month. lol. Another distinction without a difference.
Some do, while others wait longer. However the distinction stands, they are far from being born.
Other than that, it still doesn't make the baby anything other than a boy or girl. Save, what every other people might think the baby is.
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Catholics are aware that kids go through motions, pretend to do stuff to please their parents and really aren't capable of understanding or making such choice at a young age. That's why they have confirmation at ~ 14. At the point the child has to choose to be a member of the church. You go to classes, have a sponsor and eventually get confirmed. I remember because when I was this age, after going through all the classes I decided I didn't want to go through with confirmation and, as would be expected, my very Catholic parents would have none of that and I was pretty much forced to do it.....which I pointed out kind of defeats the whole purpose of the sacrament.
How old were you when you started going to classes?
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I'd venture to say he is since he never renounced it.
Enquiring minds want to know.
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Yeah they wait a whole month. lol. Another distinction without a difference.
Bum - you seem clueless about Catholics. Unbaptized babies can never go to heaven with some might consider to be a HUGE difference.
This changed recently, but upbaptized babies had to go a a make believe place called Limbo.
A few years ago there was talk that the church was going to "cancel" Limbo (and George Carlins joke about it was that he hoped all those babies got promoted to heaven and weren't just cut loose in space). I don't know if this ever got done or even exactly how (magic wand perhaps?)
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Bum - you seem clueless about Catholics. Unbaptized babies can never go to heaven with some might consider to be a HUGE difference.
This changed recently, but upbaptized babies had to go a a make believe place called Limbo.
A few years ago there was talk that the church was going to "cancel" Limbo (and George Carlins joke about it was that he hoped all those babies got promoted to heaven and weren't just cut loose in space). I don't know if this ever got done or even exactly how (magic wand perhaps?)
That's not why I mentioned the baptism of babies. I was making the point that religious training/indoctrination starts at birth for many. I specifically mentioned Catholics, because they baptize babies, send kids to mass, and can send them to Catholic school from Kindergarten through college.
I was not addressing whether any of that is appropriate, at what age a kid actually makes a commitment to become a practicing Catholic, whether a kid goes to heaven, etc. Completely different subject(s).
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How old were you when you started going to classes?
CCD starts before first communion (though it's been long time so maybe that wasn't actually CCD but some precursor)
Confirmation is ~ 8th grade and is a very big deal (assuming one actually takes it seriously)
I noticed early on that the Church would prefer you just shut up and not ask too many questions
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christian,muslim are all the same to me