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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Hugo Chavez on November 05, 2008, 09:43:28 AM
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He said they have to address why they lost. He said they strayed from conservatism and they will have to identify The Architects of that. He couldn't come out and name neocons, it'll be interesting to see if they identify the architects correctly.... The rest of what he is saying is priceless meltdown.... serious crying... His voice sounds like he did a bit of screaming last night. I still think there's part of Rush that loves Obama's win for selfish reasons.
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OReilly is awesome today too. "Now, obama gets what he wants! He'll see how hard it was for bush!"
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You can expect Neo Cons to piss and moan for the next 4 years. By popular vote the election was not a complete shut out. There are ratings to be had.
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why the reletive silence on this board and across the board to identify a very key reason why Obama was the better candidate and why the electorate turned their back on republicans...
Up next Rush is going to name names of the architects of the destruction of conservatism... Lets see if he calls it like I have for 8 years. I know Pat bucanan gets it. I know ron paul gets it... sounds like rush might, lets see....
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It is very critical the republicans identify these architects and by name and boot them from influence. If rush gets this right I'm going to be very impressed with him!
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He could start with Bush and the House Repugs who've borrowered and spent (squandered) our $$$ and in the process destroyed our currency and our economy
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Uh-oh, ...this might be more than Coach can take. I hope he'll be ok.
If Prop 8 was defeated as well, ...he needs to be placed on suicide watch pronto.
And for goodness sakes, hide all his belts, and his shoelaces.
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So far, he's going the BB and Colossus route and shooting for the old "moral majority" ground as the right direction lol... citing the win against prop 8 as the right direction and indication of the definition of conservative.... lol... No mention of Goldwater, stubborn people, wow... people may be against gay marriage but you take the new direction of republicans toward that old moral majority crap and see what happens lol...
today's fall on the market is Obama's fault according to Rush ::)
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So far he has identified people like McCain being the problem for daring to reach across to work with the other side.
Number one culprit by Rush so far: Being a "Maverick"
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He said they have to address why they lost. He said they strayed from conservatism and they will have to identify The Architects of that. He couldn't come out and name neocons, it'll be interesting to see if they identify the architects correctly.... The rest of what he is saying is priceless meltdown.... serious crying... His voice sounds like he did a bit of screaming last night. I still think there's part of Rush that loves Obama's win for selfish reasons.
If you've been listening at all thoughout the year, he's been saying that all along. He know's the repubs fucked up. You need to listen more.
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If you've been listening at all thoughout the year, he's been saying that all along. He know's the repubs fucked up. You need to listen more.
who are the "Architects" Joe? He specifically said there were people to be named and he would do it.
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So far he has identified people like McCain being the problem for daring to reach across to work with the other side.
Number one culprit by Rush so far: Being a "Maverick"
cause
Newt was successful because he stepped on the neck of the Dems....we need to project a clear choice...either lib scumbag or Conservative....no middle ground. The Middle ground allows the dems to slide to the center. If Obama governs as he ran...he will get a second term. If he governs as his past suggests, he's done in 2012 and the dem majority will bun in 2010.
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Where did real conservatives go?
IMO, being a conservative meant small government and as little intrusion in the private lives of citizens and the free market as possible.
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Pretty damm much....BUSH was NOT a CON...neocons are not Cons...they were LIb douchbags who decided military adventurism is fun, especially when u don't have to actually get shot at urself.
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I'm in my car now. Are you still listening Hugo? Keep listening.
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cause
Newt was successful because he stepped on the neck of the Dems....we need to project a clear choice...either lib scumbag or Conservative....no middle ground. The Middle ground allows the dems to slide to the center. If Obama governs as he ran...he will get a second term. If he governs as his past suggests, he's done in 2012 and the dem majority will bun in 2010.
For you guys to be successful, don't you think there should be a purge of neoconservitives?
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I'm in my car now. Are you still listening Hugo? Keep listening.
I'm still listening, if he's been talking about it for a year, who are these architects he said should play no part of republican's new direction. He said they are the architects of the destruction of true conservatism. Is he talking about the neoconservatives like William Kristol?
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Kristol is a douchebag..smary asswipe....the neocons need to go. Military intervention is fine, military adventurism is not. The neocons...former libs with a hardone for guns. They should have played paintball.
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there are four factions in the conservative movement.
free market business conservatives
libertarians
social conservatives (evangelicals)
american hegemony (neocons)
there is some overlap, but mostly they have differing and sometimes incompatible goals. independently, none of them are big enough to win an election.
free market conservatives have lost face with the current Wall Street meltdown. In fact this is the third time that deregulation has had catastrophic results: deregulation of the banking industry lead to the the savings and loan debacle; deregulation of the energy industry lead to Enron; deregulation of the stock market lead to the current problems (which is not because of mortgages, but credit default swaps, which was suppose to be a type of insurance on the mortgages, but really was a pyramid scheme. credit default swaps were possible only because of recent deregulation.)
Bush drove away the libertarians, with the suspension of habeus corpus, phone wiretaps, and torture.
the neocons destroyed themselves with the Iraq war.
that leaves the evangelicals in firm control of the Republican party. Sarah Palin is now their standard bearer. They cannot win a national election on their own.
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Hugo, are you still listening? If you are tell me where you think he is wrong.
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there are four factions in the conservative movement.
free market business conservatives
libertarians
social conservatives (evangelicals)
american hegemony (neocons)
there is some overlap, but mostly they have differing and sometimes incompatible goals. independently, none of them are big enough to win an election.
free market conservatives have lost face with the current Wall Street meltdown. In fact this is the third time that deregulation has had catastrophic results: deregulation of the banking industry lead to the the savings and loan debacle; deregulation of the energy industry lead to Enron; deregulation of the stock market lead to the current problems (which is not because of mortgages, but credit default swaps, which was suppose to be a type of insurance on the mortgages, but really was a pyramid scheme)
Bush drove away the libertarians, with the suspension of habeus corpus, phone wiretaps, and torture.
the neocons destroyed themselves with the Iraq war.
that leaves the evangelicals in firm control of the Republican party. Sarah Palin is now their standard bearer. They cannot win a national election.
good post! not many people with this kind of insight around here. This is not a pretty outlook for republicans... If the new powergrab is by social conservatives, evangelicals it's hard to see that as a successful route. It's also easy to see how the neocons don't appropriately get blamed for their failures with these guys making the new grab. If anything I could see a cooperation of neoconservatives and evangelicals. What a mess... I think just looking at the success of prop 8 as light on the horizon is a massive blunder.
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We'll be back...they said the same about the Dems in 2000 and 2004.
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Hugo, are you still listening? If you are tell me where you think he is wrong.
Coach, I'm still waiting to hear his list of the Architects that destroyed conservatism? You said he's been talking about it for a year. He said he was going to name names but only named, "Mavricks" who the hell is he talking about?
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A 35% drop in the stock market did them in.
John McCain bet everything on going to Washington to fix the economy and the perception is he made it worse.
The Democrats made him responsible for the economic crisis and the Republicans never fought back.
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Coach, I'm still waiting to hear his list of the Architects that destroyed conservatism? You said he's been talking about it for a year. He said he was going to name names but only named, "Mavricks" who the hell is he talking about?
Folks who ran with the Republican brand but were'nt really republicans.
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We'll be back...they said the same about the Dems in 2000 and 2004.
but we actually won those elections
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Yeah...course u did. ::)
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Yeah...course u did. ::)
in 2000, Gore won the popular vote, the Democrats picked up 4 in the Senate, and 2 in the House (as the Independents caucused with the Dems)
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Folks who ran with the Republican brand but were'nt really republicans.
I want to hear these guys on the right name names. We all know who they are! I'm fine with republicans making a comeback but I am less than excited to see the new rise of republicans under an evangelical banner... thanks but no thanks. Also I really don't care what neocons use to be, what they became was a special animal unique from other ideologies. These guys need to be named and denounced because if it's the same guys rebranded hiding under a new evangelical banner, I'm even more put off by a republican comeback.
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Hugo, I hear people dogging Rush all day long on here whenever his name is brought up....again, where was he wrong?
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A 35% drop in the stock market did them in.
John McCain bet everything on going to Washington to fix the economy and the perception is he made it worse.
The Democrats made him responsible for the economic crisis and the Republicans never fought back.
right so you're saying the neoconservatives skate free, scapegoat for the failure lands on the economy, don't look past the economy curtains... :-[
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Hugo, I hear people dogging Rush all day long on here whenever his name is brought up....again, where was he wrong?
wrong with what, are you fucking going to answer my goddamned question or not? How the hell do I know where he is wrong or right when he is yet to list the names he said he was going to list. you then said he has been saying it for a year... really, then who... call him up and tell him to name the names of these architects he spoke of and I'll address where I think he is wrong if I think he is wrong. He might be right and that's what I'm hoping for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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right so you're saying the neoconservatives skate free, scapegoat for the failure lands on the economy, don't look past the economy curtains... :-[
Nope...I think they oughta be outed...Kristol and the rest, Rummy,wolfeywitzy...
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Nope...I think they oughta be outed...Kristol and the rest, Rummy,wolfeywitzy...
thanks, I was talking to Joker with that. He seemed to say it was the economy, no fault of neoconservatives named. rummy and wolfy are pretty much out of the picture, Kristol is not. He asserts his influence aggressively and they said last night that he would be a leading thinker in the reforming of the party. amazing... If you guys don't get with cleaning house of bugs like this guy, he will be right there under the new brand with the same goals relabeled.
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May well be....but i'm not sure were else he wants to go. Israel will deal with Iran one way or the other. They already launched airstrikes against Hez rocket positions in response to their attacks. Russia is moving against Nato, slowly but they want to be a player again. Barry won't be allowed to sit back.
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No all of Washington is corrupt. Neo cons. Socialist Democrats.
When a nation election costs 3.5 billion and soft money was coming from everywhere on earth, who do these Candidates owe money too, not you thats for sure?
Strict spending limits with no soft money is the only way to restrict the US government to US citizens alone.
The Us is swing from one extreme to another. With congress still at a dismall 18% approval rating, yet it is the neo cons fault that congresses rating is so low.
Give me a break.
The financial mess is not the Neo-cons to wear alone.
Yet they are.
Why aren't you talking about Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi and the crap they pulled to cause oil prices to rise, which was the end of the housing market.
How come the Republicans get blamed for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac when all sides were taking money from these groups.
There are many bad republicans, but there are an equal number of bad democrats.
The bigger problem is that many Americans still find themselves disenfranchised.
Actually more are disenfranchised after this election then before.
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No all of Washington is corrupt. Neo cons. Socialist Democrats.
When a nation election costs 3.5 billion and soft money was coming from everywhere on earth, who do these Candidates owe money too, not you thats for sure?
Strict spending limits with no soft money is the only way to restrict the US government to US citizens alone.
The Us is swing from one extreme to another. With congress still at a dismall 18% approval rating, yet it is the neo cons fault that congresses rating is so low.
Give me a break.
The financial mess is not the Neo-cons to wear alone.
Yet they are.
Why aren't you talking about Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi and the crap they pulled to cause oil prices to rise, which was the end of the housing market.
How come the Republicans get blamed for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac when all sides were taking money from these groups.
There are many bad republicans, but there are an equal number of bad democrats.
The bigger problem is that many Americans still find themselves disenfranchised.
Actually more are disenfranchised after this election then before.
we're not on the same page, not even on the same issue... we're talking about what attacked conservatism. get on topic thanks. Rush was going to name names of people he felt corrupted the conservative movement. that is what we are talking about here ok... Your first post seemed to say, it was the economy, don't look at anything else. my reply was just a WTF. Topic ok, if conservatives were held down, who held them, who is responsible? what should be the correction? that's the topic.
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Nice I get called on hijacking a thread.
Yet I did answer your question.
right so you're saying the neoconservatives skate free, scapegoat for the failure lands on the economy, don't look past the economy curtains... :-[
No all of Washington is corrupt. Neo cons. Socialist Democrats.
When a nation election costs 3.5 billion and soft money was coming from everywhere on earth, who do these Candidates owe money too, not you thats for sure?
Strict spending limits with no soft money is the only way to restrict the US government to US citizens alone.
The Us is swing from one extreme to another. With congress still at a dismall 18% approval rating, yet it is the neo cons fault that congresses rating is so low.
Give me a break.
The financial mess is not the Neo-cons to wear alone.
Yet they are.
Why aren't you talking about Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi and the crap they pulled to cause oil prices to rise, which was the end of the housing market.
How come the Republicans get blamed for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac when all sides were taking money from these groups.
There are many bad republicans, but there are an equal number of bad democrats.
The bigger problem is that many Americans still find themselves disenfranchised.
Actually more are disenfranchised after this election then before.
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May well be....but i'm not sure were else he wants to go. Israel will deal with Iran one way or the other. They already launched airstrikes against Hez rocket positions in response to their attacks. Russia is moving against Nato, slowly but they want to be a player again. Barry won't be allowed to sit back.
not being allowed to sit back is not the same thing as Neocon Team America Nation Building World Police Policies.
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Nice I get called on hijacking a thread.
Yet I did answer your question.
it wasn't my question, I just told you my comment was a WTF to your first statement that seemed to say, it's the economy, don't look anywhere else. Then by your last reply I realized as I said you were not even on the subject and that's why I pointed out topic. Now if you care to address the topic, great I would appreciate that.
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coach? do you have an answer for me or not? ???
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Folks who ran with the Republican brand but were'nt really republicans.
like Rudy?
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The leaders of most of the Neo con movement will be gone with Bush.
Karl Rove stood on the side lines.
Most others associated with PNAC were
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century
Elliott Abrams Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Democracy, Human Rights, and International Operations (2001–2002), Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Near East and North African Affairs (2002–2005), Deputy Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Advisor for Global Democracy Strategy (2005-) (all within the National Security Council)
Richard Armitage Deputy Secretary of State (2001-2005)
John R. Bolton Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security Affairs (2001-2005), U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (2005-2006)
Dick Cheney Vice President (2001-)
Eliot A. Cohen Member of the Defense Policy Advisory Board (2007-)[61]
Seth Cropsey Director of the International Broadcasting Bureau (12/2002-12/2004)
Paula Dobriansky Under-Secretary of State for Global Affairs (2001-2007)
Francis Fukuyama Member of the The President's Council on Bioethics (2001-2005)
Zalmay Khalilzad U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan (11/2003 - 6/2005), U.S. Ambassador to Iraq (6/2005 - 3/2007) U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (2007-)
I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby Chief of Staff for the Vice President (2001-2005)
Richard Perle Chairman of the Board, Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee (2001-2003)
Peter W. Rodman Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security (2001-2007)
Donald Rumsfeld Secretary of Defense (2001-2006)
Randy Scheunemann Member of the U.S. Committee on NATO, Project on Transitional Democracies, International Republican Institute
Paul Wolfowitz Deputy Secretary of Defense (2001-2005)
Dov S. Zakheim Department of Defense Comptroller (2001-2004)
Robert B. Zoellick Office of the United States Trade Representative (2001-2005), Deputy Secretary of State (2005-2006), 11th President of the World Bank (2007-)
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we need to project a clear choice...either lib scumbag or Conservative....no middle ground.
That's President lib scumbag to you. ;D
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The leaders of most of the Neo con movement will be gone with Bush.
Yea, I said that too. Not the point. You have these neocons who have formed numerous associated think tanks, publications and opinion positions that speak from a "conservative" label. This is not about neocons in power, it's about those who guide the conservative movement. That is the question. These architects of the corruption of traditional conservatism that Rush promised to name. Intellectuals of the movement he called them and said they should not be influential in the new direction of conservatism and the republican party.
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I think that you are getting some things confused.
Neocon movement is based around PNAC and in that respect the Neocon movement is dead.
Guys like Jeb Bush are not going to be involved in restructuring of the party, in my opinion.
Guys like Frum are already moving away from the Neo-cons.
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/11/05/david-frum-republicans-face-choice-between-two-paths-to-revival.aspx
It is the same reason why Clinton was left on the sidelines of this election.
Big conservative thinkers are wondering how to get Joe the plumber back.
These are the votes that neocons had a large amount of distain for and who the blue dog democrats support.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Democrats
Other versions of conservative have different faces.
Many conservatives are afraid that they will turn to completely to social values.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31824_Should_the_GOP_Double_Down_on_Social_Conservatism
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you're not listening Joker... I'm not confused about shit... I've just spent 8 years watching and studying this all in great detail... What you just said doesn't relate to what I said prior to your post. ideology doesn't vanish because the guy that put the ideology in play loses power. Now they are identifying architects that destroyed conservatism and saying these people should not play a part in the fix of it. You're on a tangent. Do you see the topic?
Frum is a neocon of course he is going to move away, I'm thinking a lot of these guys are running from that label and even PNAC is defunct. They may change stripes that is not the point.
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I replied to who the people that are the architects of the neoconservative movement.
Guys like Bauer, Forbes, Kirstol, Scheunemann, Jackson, Gaffney, Weber are still involved and helped to run McCain's election team.
Seems like they did a damn good job.
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I replied to who the people that are the architects of the neoconservative movement.
Guys like Bauer, Forbes, Kirstol, Scheunemann, Jackson, Gaffney, Weber are still involved and helped to run McCain's election team.
Seems like they did a damn good job.
they did a good job with what?
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Losing an election
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Hugo, I hear people dogging Rush all day long on here whenever his name is brought up....again, where was he wrong?
Tell me 1 time rush has ever been right?
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Tell me 1 time rush has ever been right?
"There's nothing good about drug use. We know it. It destroys individuals. It destroys families. Drug use destroys societies. Drug use, some might say, is destroying this country. And we have laws against selling drugs, pushing drugs, using drugs, importing drugs. And the laws are good because we know what happens to people in societies and neighborhoods which become consumed by them. And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up.
"What this says to me is that too many whites are getting away with drug use. Too many whites are getting away with drug sales. Too many whites are getting away with trafficking in this stuff. The answer to this disparity is not to start letting people out of jail because we're not putting others in jail who are breaking the law. The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too."
-- Rush Limbaugh show, Oct. 5, 1995
oh, wait, that's Rush being a hypocrite.
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"There's nothing good about drug use. We know it. It destroys individuals. It destroys families. Drug use destroys societies. Drug use, some might say, is destroying this country. And we have laws against selling drugs, pushing drugs, using drugs, importing drugs. And the laws are good because we know what happens to people in societies and neighborhoods which become consumed by them. And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up.
"What this says to me is that too many whites are getting away with drug use. Too many whites are getting away with drug sales. Too many whites are getting away with trafficking in this stuff. The answer to this disparity is not to start letting people out of jail because we're not putting others in jail who are breaking the law. The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too."
-- Rush Limbaugh show, Oct. 5, 1995
oh, wait, that's Rush being a hypocrite.
Gotta love Rush. Hes as credible as Jessie Jackson to me...
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Again, you show your ignorance!!
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coach, I'll ask again, can you please fill me in on the "architects" Rush was going to name, He refered to them as intellectuals. At one point he said after the break he was going to point fingers and then he bailed on doing that.