Wow, Rush gets it? RUSH TO NAME NAMES AFTER THE BREAK!!!!

[timfogarty]

We'll be back...they said the same about the Dems in 2000 and 2004.

but we actually won those elections

[headhuntersix]

Yeah...course u did. 

[timfogarty]

Yeah...course u did. 

in 2000, Gore won the popular vote, the Democrats picked up 4 in the Senate, and 2 in the House (as the Independents caucused with the Dems)

[Hugo Chavez]

Folks who ran with the Republican brand but were'nt really republicans.

I want to hear these guys on the right name names.  We all know who they are!  I'm fine with republicans making a comeback but I am less than excited to see the new rise of republicans under an evangelical banner... thanks but no thanks.  Also I really don't care what neocons use to be, what they became was a special animal unique from other ideologies.  These guys need to be named and denounced because if it's the same guys rebranded hiding under a new evangelical banner, I'm even more put off by a republican comeback.

[The Coach]

Hugo, I hear people dogging Rush all day long on here whenever his name is brought up....again, where was he wrong?

[Hugo Chavez]

A 35% drop in the stock market did them in.
John McCain bet everything on going to Washington to fix the economy and the perception is he made it worse.

The Democrats made him responsible for the economic crisis and the Republicans never fought back.

right so you're saying the neoconservatives skate free, scapegoat for the failure lands on the economy, don't look past the economy curtains...

[Hugo Chavez]

Hugo, I hear people dogging Rush all day long on here whenever his name is brought up....again, where was he wrong?

wrong with what, are you fucking going to answer my goddamned question or not?  How the hell do I know where he is wrong or right when he is yet to list the names he said he was going to list.  you then said he has been saying it for a year... really, then who... call him up and tell him to name the names of these architects he spoke of and I'll address where I think he is wrong if I think he is wrong.  He might be right and that's what I'm hoping for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[headhuntersix]

right so you're saying the neoconservatives skate free, scapegoat for the failure lands on the economy, don't look past the economy curtains...

Nope...I think they oughta be outed...Kristol and the rest, Rummy,wolfeywitzy...

[Hugo Chavez]

Nope...I think they oughta be outed...Kristol and the rest, Rummy,wolfeywitzy...

thanks, I was talking to Joker with that.  He seemed to say it was the economy, no fault of neoconservatives named.  rummy and wolfy are pretty much out of the picture, Kristol is not.  He asserts his influence aggressively and they said last night that he would be a leading thinker in the reforming of the party.  amazing...  If you guys don't get with cleaning house of bugs like this guy, he will be right there under the new brand with the same goals relabeled.

[headhuntersix]

May well be....but i'm not sure were else he wants to go. Israel will deal with Iran one way or the other. They already launched airstrikes against Hez rocket positions in response to their attacks. Russia is moving against Nato, slowly but they want to be a player again. Barry won't be allowed to sit back.

[a_joker10]

No all of Washington is corrupt. Neo cons. Socialist Democrats.
When a nation election costs 3.5 billion and soft money was coming from everywhere on earth, who do these Candidates owe money too, not you thats for sure?
Strict spending limits with no soft money is the only way to restrict the US government to US citizens alone.
The Us is swing from one extreme to another. With congress still at a dismall 18% approval rating, yet it is the neo cons fault that congresses rating is so low.
Give me a break.
The financial mess is not the Neo-cons to wear alone.
Yet they are.
Why aren't you talking about Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi and the crap they pulled to cause oil prices to rise, which was the end of the housing market.
How come the Republicans get blamed for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac when all sides were taking money from these groups.
There are many bad republicans, but there are an equal number of bad democrats.
The bigger problem is that many Americans still find themselves disenfranchised.
Actually more are disenfranchised after this election then before.

[Hugo Chavez]

No all of Washington is corrupt. Neo cons. Socialist Democrats.
When a nation election costs 3.5 billion and soft money was coming from everywhere on earth, who do these Candidates owe money too, not you thats for sure?
Strict spending limits with no soft money is the only way to restrict the US government to US citizens alone.
The Us is swing from one extreme to another. With congress still at a dismall 18% approval rating, yet it is the neo cons fault that congresses rating is so low.
Give me a break.
The financial mess is not the Neo-cons to wear alone.
Yet they are.
Why aren't you talking about Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi and the crap they pulled to cause oil prices to rise, which was the end of the housing market.
How come the Republicans get blamed for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac when all sides were taking money from these groups.
There are many bad republicans, but there are an equal number of bad democrats.
The bigger problem is that many Americans still find themselves disenfranchised.
Actually more are disenfranchised after this election then before.

we're not on the same page, not even on the same issue...  we're talking about what attacked conservatism.  get on topic thanks.  Rush was going to name names of people he felt corrupted the conservative movement.  that is what we are talking about here ok...  Your first post seemed to say, it was the economy, don't look at anything else.  my reply was just a WTF.  Topic ok, if conservatives were held down, who held them, who is responsible?  what should be the correction?  that's the topic.

[a_joker10]

Nice I get called on hijacking a thread.
Yet I did answer your question.

right so you're saying the neoconservatives skate free, scapegoat for the failure lands on the economy, don't look past the economy curtains...

No all of Washington is corrupt. Neo cons. Socialist Democrats.
When a nation election costs 3.5 billion and soft money was coming from everywhere on earth, who do these Candidates owe money too, not you thats for sure?
Strict spending limits with no soft money is the only way to restrict the US government to US citizens alone.
The Us is swing from one extreme to another. With congress still at a dismall 18% approval rating, yet it is the neo cons fault that congresses rating is so low.
Give me a break.
The financial mess is not the Neo-cons to wear alone.
Yet they are.
Why aren't you talking about Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi and the crap they pulled to cause oil prices to rise, which was the end of the housing market.
How come the Republicans get blamed for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac when all sides were taking money from these groups.
There are many bad republicans, but there are an equal number of bad democrats.
The bigger problem is that many Americans still find themselves disenfranchised.
Actually more are disenfranchised after this election then before.

[Hugo Chavez]

May well be....but i'm not sure were else he wants to go. Israel will deal with Iran one way or the other. They already launched airstrikes against Hez rocket positions in response to their attacks. Russia is moving against Nato, slowly but they want to be a player again. Barry won't be allowed to sit back.

not being allowed to sit back is not the same thing as Neocon Team America Nation Building World Police Policies.

[Hugo Chavez]

Nice I get called on hijacking a thread.
Yet I did answer your question.

it wasn't my question, I just told you my comment was a WTF to your first statement that seemed to say, it's the economy, don't look anywhere else.  Then by your last reply I realized as I said you were not even on the subject and that's why I pointed out topic.  Now if you care to address the topic, great I would appreciate that.

[Hugo Chavez]

coach?  do you have an answer for me or not?

[240 is Back]

Folks who ran with the Republican brand but were'nt really republicans.

like Rudy?

[a_joker10]

The leaders of most of the Neo con movement will be gone with Bush.
Karl Rove stood on the side lines.
Most others associated with PNAC were
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century
Elliott Abrams    Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Democracy, Human Rights, and International Operations (2001–2002), Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Near East and North African Affairs (2002–2005), Deputy Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Advisor for Global Democracy Strategy (2005-) (all within the National Security Council)
Richard Armitage    Deputy Secretary of State (2001-2005)
John R. Bolton    Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security Affairs (2001-2005), U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (2005-2006)
Dick Cheney    Vice President (2001-)
Eliot A. Cohen    Member of the Defense Policy Advisory Board (2007-)[61]
Seth Cropsey    Director of the International Broadcasting Bureau (12/2002-12/2004)
Paula Dobriansky    Under-Secretary of State for Global Affairs (2001-2007)
Francis Fukuyama    Member of the The President's Council on Bioethics (2001-2005)
Zalmay Khalilzad    U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan (11/2003 - 6/2005), U.S. Ambassador to Iraq (6/2005 - 3/2007) U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (2007-)
I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby    Chief of Staff for the Vice President (2001-2005)
Richard Perle    Chairman of the Board, Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee (2001-2003)
Peter W. Rodman    Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security (2001-2007)
Donald Rumsfeld    Secretary of Defense (2001-2006)
Randy Scheunemann    Member of the U.S. Committee on NATO, Project on Transitional Democracies, International Republican Institute
Paul Wolfowitz    Deputy Secretary of Defense (2001-2005)
Dov S. Zakheim    Department of Defense Comptroller (2001-2004)
Robert B. Zoellick    Office of the United States Trade Representative (2001-2005), Deputy Secretary of State (2005-2006), 11th President of the World Bank (2007-)

[AE]

we need to project a clear choice...either lib scumbag or Conservative....no middle ground. 

That's President lib scumbag to you. 

[Hugo Chavez]

The leaders of most of the Neo con movement will be gone with Bush.

Yea, I said that too.  Not the point.  You have these neocons who have formed numerous associated think tanks, publications and opinion positions that speak from a "conservative" label. This is not about neocons in power, it's about those who guide the conservative movement.  That is the question.  These architects of the corruption of traditional conservatism that Rush promised to name.  Intellectuals of the movement he called them and said they should not be influential in the new direction of conservatism and the republican party.

[a_joker10]

I think that you are getting some things confused.
Neocon movement is based around PNAC and in that respect the Neocon movement is dead.
Guys like Jeb Bush are not going to be involved in restructuring of the party, in my opinion.
Guys like Frum are already moving away from the Neo-cons.
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/11/05/david-frum-republicans-face-choice-between-two-paths-to-revival.aspx
It is the same reason why Clinton was left on the sidelines of this election.
Big conservative thinkers are wondering how to get Joe the plumber back.
These are the votes that neocons had a large amount of distain for and who the blue dog democrats support.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Democrats

Other versions of conservative have different faces.
Many conservatives are afraid that they will turn to completely to social values.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31824_Should_the_GOP_Double_Down_on_Social_Conservatism

[Hugo Chavez]

you're not listening Joker...  I'm not confused about shit... I've just spent 8 years watching and studying this all in great detail...  What you just said doesn't relate to what I said prior to your post.  ideology doesn't vanish because the guy that put the ideology in play loses power.  Now they are identifying architects that destroyed conservatism and saying these people should not play a part in the fix of it.  You're on a tangent.  Do you see the topic?


Frum is a neocon of course he is going to move away, I'm thinking a lot of these guys are running from that label and even PNAC is defunct.  They may change stripes that is not the point.

[a_joker10]

I replied to who the people that are the architects of the neoconservative movement.

Guys like Bauer, Forbes, Kirstol, Scheunemann, Jackson, Gaffney, Weber are still involved and helped to run McCain's election team.

Seems like they did a damn good job.

[Hugo Chavez]

I replied to who the people that are the architects of the neoconservative movement.

Guys like Bauer, Forbes, Kirstol, Scheunemann, Jackson, Gaffney, Weber are still involved and helped to run McCain's election team.

Seems like they did a damn good job.

they did a good job with what?

[a_joker10]

Losing an election