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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: headhuntersix on November 17, 2008, 06:56:17 PM
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U want scary, check out that link. I will give u lib getbiggers some credit and say that u atleast had some idea what the hell u just voted for but these morons had no idea. Its a combination of being idiots, the media and who knows what, but these blind morons just helped the most ill prepared candidate in history, get elected. Actually he's taking the Clinton administration and kicking off the dust. The next 4 years ought to be alot of fun.
http://howobamagotelected.com/
Zogby Poll
512 Obama Voters 11/13/08-11/15/08 MOE +/- 4.4 points
97.1% High School Graduate or higher, 55% College Graduates
Results to 12 simple Multiple Choice Questions
57.4% could NOT correctly say which party controls congress (50/50 shot just by guessing)
81.8% could NOT correctly say Joe Biden quit a previous campaign because of plagiarism (25% chance by guessing)
82.6% could NOT correctly say that Barack Obama won his first election by getting opponents kicked off the ballot (25% chance by guessing)
88.4% could NOT correctly say that Obama said his policies would likely bankrupt the coal industry and make energy rates skyrocket (25% chance by guessing)
56.1% could NOT correctly say Obama started his political career at the home of two former members of the Weather Underground (25% chance by guessing).
And yet.....
Only 13.7% failed to identify Sarah Palin as the person on which their party spent $150,000 in clothes
Only 6.2% failed to identify Palin as the one with a pregnant teenage daughter
And 86.9 % thought that Palin said that she could see Russia from her "house," even though that was Tina Fey who said that!!
Only 2.4% got at least 11 correct.
Only .5% got all of them correct. (And we "gave" one answer that was technically not Palin, but actually Tina Fey)
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I have ZERO doubt that this it true.
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Zogby is releasing the numbers tommorrow. The media won't say a word. The MSM, what a joke. The fawning, the aderation, what bullshit. I bet there were a few guys sitting around in Nazi Germany or Russia saying the same thing. Next thing u know ur in Dachau, the Eastern front of a Gulag freezing ur ass off.
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But Barack Obama represents change.....
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But Barack Obama represents change.....
hillary as /sec of state.
CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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But Barack Obama represents change.....
Change right up your ass and out of your wallet, as a wise man on here once said. ;D
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Those are just lame right wing talking points, and the "simple" multiple choice questions are phrased in such a way to range from misleading to downright dishonest.
Obama never said that his policies would bankrupt the coal industry and make energy prices skyrocket. His answer did include the word "bankrupt", but the rest is bunk. He said he wanted to institute measures that would wean the nation off of fossil fuel pollutants. He specifically referred to building NEW coal powered factories.
The Biden plagiarism scandal is TWO decades old.
Obama did NOT launch his political campaign in Ayers' living room.
All of the questions about the democratic candidates are about stuff unrelated to the campaign that happened up to 20 years ago.
All of the stuff about Sarah Palin happened within the last three months and was directly related to this campaign.
Another HH6 straw man argument. (No offense Straw Man.)
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Not everyone is as smart as Head Hunter Six. That man is a genius. He knows it all.
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Those are just lame right wing talking points, and the "simple" multiple choice questions are phrased in such a way to range from misleading to downright dishonest.
Obama never said that his policies would bankrupt the coal industry and make energy prices skyrocket. He said he wanted to institute measures that would wean the nation off of fossil fuel pollutants. He specifically referred to building NEW coal powered factories.
The Biden plagiarism scandal is TWO decades old.
Obama did NOT launch his political campaign in Ayers' living room.
All of the questions about the democratic candidates are about stuff unrelated to the campaign that happed up to 200 years ago.
All of the stuff about Sarah Palin happened within the last three months and was directly related to this campaign.
Another HH6 straw man argument. (No offense Straw Man.)
you have proof of the questions being biased?
mccains divorce was how long ago and how often did that get brought up?
yes yes palin had 150,000 in clothes bought by the GOP not her but yes its very campaign related ::)
her daughter being pregnant also is directly campaign related how could i have missed that ::)
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I thought he got elected by winning the most electoral votes
when is this thing actually certified anyway?
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So what you're saying is that stupid lib voters got Obama in this time, unlike the last time when stupid conservative voters got Bush in for a second term.
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Here is what happened...this is truth. Personally I don't see how anyone can argue this all that much...be it a democrat or republican.
When it comes to registered voters, those that were registered before this election, the country is pretty evenly split between democrats and republicans. Sometimes conservatives who are right on the line will shift to the left a little, but there are not enough of those to win an election on the left.
The independents, they do make up a chunk of the registered voters, but even though they call themselves independent, most will typically always vote on one side...most always vote democrat, or republican....very few are evenly split. If they voted for Bush you can pretty much guess they voted for McCain, if they voted for Kerry, you can pretty much guess they voted for Obama.
Yes, the independents do affect the election in some way, but that's not what happened here. There is no way the independents who typically gravitate towards the right voted for a far left candidate...so what happened?
For the first time in American history, the "I don't know crap about anything" crowed registered to vote and voted for Obama. These were not the politically intelligent...the politically intelligent always vote. These were the moochers, the lazy, the reality TV supporting mass of cattle.
They voted for Obama, not base on policy, they have no clue what policy is...most of them have no clue how any thing on the hill affect them. They voted for Obama for at least one of these reasons or more:
1. He is better looking then McCain
2. He had celeb appeal
3. He made people feel warm and fuzzy
4. They were told by others that Obama would take care of all their problems...messiah, savior, god, whatever you want to call it.
5. He is black
6. He seems kind of cool
7. They were promised free money...although they have no idea how this works or where it will come from it sounds good to them.
8. If they didn't vote for Obama they wouldn't be cool any more
9. The media, especially MSNBC and almost every major news paper painted McCain to be an evil, heartless and greedy old man.
10. They were promised free money...already mentioned this one, but it's worth mentioning twice. These people will always jump on free money...most of them are too lazy to do anything that would actually earn them more money.
Those are the top 10 reasons Barack Obama will be the 44th president of the United States.
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... or maybe they just decided that the republicans weren't doing dick for them and exercised their rights
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... or maybe they just decided that the republicans weren't doing dick for them and exercised their rights
You completely missed the point.
Most peoples live, I'm talking about the majority of people, those who fall in the low middle class, there lives have not changed one bit with Bush in office or with a republican congress 6 of the last 8 years.
These people heard someone tell them they were going to do everything for them...basically told them they now had room to be even lazier...apparently this is possible, which is shocking news to me.
Most of these people will be pretty surprised when their lives don't change at all under Obama...actually they'll be pretty pissed off. but you know what? The anger will last about 42 seconds...most of these people have the attention span of a new born cat.
Then the next election will come, they'll be told that if the new guy who's running against Obama is elected they'll be in danger of losing money, of having to work harder. They will be promised more freebies, and will by then completely forgotten they never got one freebie in the last 4 years.
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Here is what happened...this is truth. Personally I don't see how anyone can argue this all that much...be it a democrat or republican.
When it comes to registered voters, those that were registered before this election, the country is pretty evenly split between democrats and republicans. Sometimes conservatives who are right on the line will shift to the left a little, but there are not enough of those to win an election on the left.
The independents, they do make up a chunk of the registered voters, but even though they call themselves independent, most will typically always vote on one side...most always vote democrat, or republican....very few are evenly split. If they voted for Bush you can pretty much guess they voted for McCain, if they voted for Kerry, you can pretty much guess they voted for Obama.
Yes, the independents do affect the election in some way, but that's not what happened here. There is no way the independents who typically gravitate towards the right voted for a far left candidate...so what happened?
For the first time in American history, the "I don't know crap about anything" crowed registered to vote and voted for Obama. These were not the politically intelligent...the politically intelligent always vote. These were the moochers, the lazy, the reality TV supporting mass of cattle.
They voted for Obama, not base on policy, they have no clue what policy is...most of them have no clue how any thing on the hill affect them. They voted for Obama for at least one of these reasons or more:
1. He is better looking then McCain
2. He had celeb appeal
3. He made people feel warm and fuzzy
4. They were told by others that Obama would take care of all their problems...messiah, savior, god, whatever you want to call it.
5. He is black
6. He seems kind of cool
7. They were promised free money...although they have no idea how this works or where it will come from it sounds good to them.
8. If they didn't vote for Obama they wouldn't be cool any more
9. The media, especially MSNBC and almost every major news paper painted McCain to be an evil, heartless and greedy old man.
10. They were promised free money...already mentioned this one, but it's worth mentioning twice. These people will always jump on free money...most of them are too lazy to do anything that would actually earn them more money.
Those are the top 10 reasons Barack Obama will be the 44th president of the United States.
Thats pretty accurate.
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You completely missed the point.
Most peoples live, I'm talking about the majority of people, those who fall in the low middle class, there lives have not changed one bit with Bush in office or with a republican congress 6 of the last 8 years.
These people heard someone tell them they were going to do everything for them...basically told them they now had room to be even lazier...apparently this is possible, which is shocking news to me.
Most of these people will be pretty surprised when their lives don't change at all under Obama...actually they'll be pretty pissed off. but you know what? The anger will last about 42 seconds...most of these people have the attention span of a new born cat.
Then the next election will come, they'll be told that if the new guy who's running against Obama is elected they'll be in danger of losing money, of having to work harder. They will be promised more freebies, and will by then completely forgotten they never got one freebie in the last 4 years.
I'm not sure I would take it to your extreme - but I ask myself in these modern times is - why have government if it doesn't do anything for you? Sure there will be free loaders, but I'm not convinced that therefore the government should provide as few services as possible because someone might be getting more than their share.
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No offence, but aren't the Clinton years generally considered to be some of the best in US history?
At least economically?
Running a surplus and and all.
So filling the cabinet with Clinton staff would be something most would be happy with?
Would it be better if Obama appointed a bunch of newbies with no experience?
Whether we like him or not, he's been making pretty smart decisions so far, even reaching out to McCain, really making an effort to win acceptance from even Republicans.
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Thats pretty accurate.
Which is what the video is all about...dumb people having no clue what they're doing but basing a vote on how cool Obama is.
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Epic whining.
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Yeah epic....ur guy is a naive idiot and we're whining. The people who elected him either don't know who the hell he is or expect a handout and their problems solved.....
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Even though it comes with conditions, I would prefer Clinton democrats be in the whitehouse....rather than some of the far lefties.
The fact that Hillary wasn't elected over Obama is still baffling.
Arnold jr, there's no doubt some people fall into the category you posted. Its nice to see intelligent debate on both sides here but this election attracted a lot of people who know little about gov or politics. Obama was a media celebrity that many people were drawn to.
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You completely missed the point.
Most peoples live, I'm talking about the majority of people, those who fall in the low middle class, there lives have not changed one bit with Bush in office or with a republican congress 6 of the last 8 years.
100% false.
With the run-up of gas prices, the cost of groceries had to increase as well. Over time, with less and less money left at the end of each month, people's lives got a lot tougher...even those folks who did a reasonable job maintaining a household budget.
Most people WERE affected by the dramatic increase in the cost of a lb of butter. That's just reality.
Sure, we still go to our kids' soccer games, but Keri and Tom just moved into a rental because they could no longer afford their house payment. Jessica isn't in my kid's class anymore because they, too, had to 'move away'.
Thankfully, the cost of a gallon of diesel fuel has come back down, but grocery costs are still high. Hopefully they'll be stabilized for a while to allow our incomes to catch up.
Now, though, you have to take into account what's going on with the Big 3 and when faced with those realities, conventional wisdom says the worst is still yet to come.
On that note, the mismanagement of GM is NOT Bush's fault.
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Brutal gnashing of teeth.
Lonnnnggggg time ahead for such jealousy.
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No offence, but aren't the Clinton years generally considered to be some of the best in US history?
At least economically?
Running a surplus and and all.
So filling the cabinet with Clinton staff would be something most would be happy with?
Would it be better if Obama appointed a bunch of newbies with no experience?
Whether we like him or not, he's been making pretty smart decisions so far, even reaching out to McCain, really making an effort to win acceptance from even Republicans.
Clinton's first 2 years were pretty bad...border line disastrous. It was the balance budget act that he signed that was the big touchdown for Clinton.
Does anyone remember who drew that bill up? Gingrich...did Clinton want to sign it? No of course not, it took a lot of ass kicking to get it through but it worked, it helped the economy out more then anything in history and now Clinton can take the credit.
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Clinton's first 2 years were pretty bad...border line disastrous. It was the balance budget act that he signed that was the big touchdown for Clinton.
Does anyone remember who drew that bill up? Gingrich...did Clinton want to sign it? No of course not, it took a lot of ass kicking to get it through but it worked, it helped the economy out more then anything in history and now Clinton can take the credit.
The best of times were produced with a GOP congress and Clinton as President.
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Clinton's first 2 years were pretty bad...border line disastrous. It was the balance budget act that he signed that was the big touchdown for Clinton.
Does anyone remember who drew that bill up? Gingrich...did Clinton want to sign it? No of course not, it took a lot of ass kicking to get it through but it worked, it helped the economy out more then anything in history and now Clinton can take the credit.
Clinton's first two years were only considered disastrous by the Rrght because he attempted to get a lot of left leaning stuff done. In general, these years were considered pretty good. Job creation sky rocketed, inflation dropped, unemployment was down and the deficit was shrinking already.
The balanced budget act has never been considered a "touchdown" for Clinton. It's always been attributed to republicans, and most analysts say that its benefits have been exaggerated since the economy had already been moving in a positive direction before it was passed.
And it didn't get through because of "ass kicking" ... it got through because of compromise. Clinton had made balancing the budget part of his campaign platform so basically it came down to the two parties seeing eye to eye on specifics.
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Here is what happened...this is truth. Personally I don't see how anyone can argue this all that much...be it a democrat or republican.
When it comes to registered voters, those that were registered before this election, the country is pretty evenly split between democrats and republicans. Sometimes conservatives who are right on the line will shift to the left a little, but there are not enough of those to win an election on the left.
The independents, they do make up a chunk of the registered voters, but even though they call themselves independent, most will typically always vote on one side...most always vote democrat, or republican....very few are evenly split. If they voted for Bush you can pretty much guess they voted for McCain, if they voted for Kerry, you can pretty much guess they voted for Obama.
Yes, the independents do affect the election in some way, but that's not what happened here. There is no way the independents who typically gravitate towards the right voted for a far left candidate...so what happened?
For the first time in American history, the "I don't know crap about anything" crowed registered to vote and voted for Obama. These were not the politically intelligent...the politically intelligent always vote. These were the moochers, the lazy, the reality TV supporting mass of cattle.
They voted for Obama, not base on policy, they have no clue what policy is...most of them have no clue how any thing on the hill affect them. They voted for Obama for at least one of these reasons or more:
1. He is better looking then McCain
2. He had celeb appeal
3. He made people feel warm and fuzzy
4. They were told by others that Obama would take care of all their problems...messiah, savior, god, whatever you want to call it.
5. He is black
6. He seems kind of cool
7. They were promised free money...although they have no idea how this works or where it will come from it sounds good to them.
8. If they didn't vote for Obama they wouldn't be cool any more
9. The media, especially MSNBC and almost every major news paper painted McCain to be an evil, heartless and greedy old man.
10. They were promised free money...already mentioned this one, but it's worth mentioning twice. These people will always jump on free money...most of them are too lazy to do anything that would actually earn them more money.
Those are the top 10 reasons Barack Obama will be the 44th president of the United States.
A lot of effort went into this post , but the number just don't bear it out. I won't even argue specifics, but let's put it this way. Approx. the same number of people who voted during the last election voted during the most recent election. The candidates and outcome were different, but presumably the theories behind the voting body remains the same. Hmmm.
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"The best of times were produced with a GOP congress and Clinton as President"
Yep!
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1. He is better looking then McCain
2. He had celeb appeal
3. He made people feel warm and fuzzy
4. They were told by others that Obama would take care of all their problems...messiah, savior, god, whatever you want to call it.
5. He is black
6. He seems kind of cool
7. They were promised free money...although they have no idea how this works or where it will come from it sounds good to them.
8. If they didn't vote for Obama they wouldn't be cool any more
9. The media, especially MSNBC and almost every major news paper painted McCain to be an evil, heartless and greedy old man.
10. They were promised free money...already mentioned this one, but it's worth mentioning twice. These people will always jump on free money...most of them are too lazy to do anything that would actually earn them more money.
None of your top 10 are correct. They are rightwing spin points.
Here's something a little more accurate.
1. Universal Healthcare
2. Universal Healthcare
3. Universal Healthcare
4. Universal Healthcare
5. A campaign based on the notion of unity and not fear and loathing...or coded issues
6. Not a republican
7. Not a republican
8. Not a republican
9. Not a republican
10.Not a republican
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None of your top 10 are correct. They are rightwing spin points.
Here's something a little more accurate.
1. Universal Healthcare
2. Universal Healthcare
3. Universal Healthcare
4. Universal Healthcare
5. A campaign based on the notion of unity and not fear and loathing...or coded issues
6. Not a republican
7. Not a republican
8. Not a republican
9. Not a republican
10.Not a republican
Obama was supremely successful at tying McCain to Bush.
Obama had good timing on his side as well.
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A lot of effort went into this post , but the number just don't bear it out. I won't even argue specifics, but let's put it this way. Approx. the same number of people who voted during the last election voted during the most recent election. The candidates and outcome were different, but presumably the theories behind the voting body remains the same. Hmmm.
The lower middle class and the black population voted in record numbers...that made a huge difference.
Clinton's first two years were only considered disastrous by the Rrght because he attempted to get a lot of left leaning stuff done. In general, these years were considered pretty good. Job creation sky rocketed, inflation dropped, unemployment was down and the deficit was shrinking already.
The balanced budget act has never been considered a "touchdown" for Clinton. It's always been attributed to republicans, and most analysts say that its benefits have been exaggerated since the economy had already been moving in a positive direction before it was passed.
And it didn't get through because of "ass kicking" ... it got through because of compromise. Clinton had made balancing the budget part of his campaign platform so basically it came down to the two parties seeing eye to eye on specifics.
Clinton had no choice but to sign...even if he had vetoed it had enough votes for his veto to be overturned...so he did the only thing he could that wouldn't make him an ass.
I'll say this about Clinton, as many of his policies as I disagree with, and there are a lot of them, he is a very sharp guy and knows what's what. I'd rather have 8 more years of Clinton then 4 years of Obama.
None of your top 10 are correct. They are rightwing spin points.
Here's something a little more accurate.
1. Universal Healthcare
2. Universal Healthcare
3. Universal Healthcare
4. Universal Healthcare
5. A campaign based on the notion of unity and not fear and loathing...or coded issues
6. Not a republican
7. Not a republican
8. Not a republican
9. Not a republican
10.Not a republican
"Universal Health Care" is disaster if it happens
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"Universal Health Care" is disaster if it happens
It very well could be disasterous. I don't care for his UHC plan. He works with the crooked insurance giants instead of incorporating a single payor system.
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...
Obama had good timing on his side as well.
I'll tell you, I would have bet my house that a black man would not be elected president in my lifetime.
Obama's fortune was due to the Bush administration...I think.
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None of your top 10 are correct. They are rightwing spin points.
Here's something a little more accurate.
1. Universal Healthcare
2. Universal Healthcare
3. Universal Healthcare
4. Universal Healthcare
5. A campaign based on the notion of unity and not fear and loathing...or coded issues
6. Not a republican
7. Not a republican
8. Not a republican
9. Not a republican
10.Not a republican
1. Money
2. Money
3. Money
4. Money
5. Money
6. Economy
7. Bush
8. Obama running good campaign
9. McCain running bad campaign
10. Money
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I'll tell you, I would have bet my house that a black man would not be elected president in my lifetime.
Obama's fortune was due to the Bush administration...I think.
Many liberals I know think there are far more racists than there axctually are.
Most people I know could care less about the color of someone's skin, myself included. I am glad that a black person was finallly elected. I think that is a GREAT thing. I just never thought it would be someone like Obama.
I also have to say that I am very surprised at how heavily he is going to the Clinton well for appointments so far.
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Obama was supremely successful at tying McCain to Bush.
Obama had good timing on his side as well.
100% correct.
Even at that, I am one black male who was still VERY surprised that he got elected with the last name 'Obama'.
At one point, I may have even said there was '0% chance' of him being elected President, but America surprised the hell outta me and I believe they - we - did the right thing.
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I'll tell you, I would have bet my house that a black man would not be elected president in my lifetime.
Obama's fortune was due to the Bush administration...I think.
I didn't see it happening anytime before I was in my 70s, although I did consider Colin Powell the most viable candidate (the time for him to run was in 2000, though).
I knew it would be close after he won the nomination, but it was probably late August (after my trip to Ohio) before I began to believe it could actually happen.
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Many liberals I know think there are far more racists than there axctually are.
Wow, Mr. Census, you really got the numbers?
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100% correct.
Even at that, I am one black male who was still VERY surprised that he got elected with the last name 'Obama'.
At one point, I may have even said there was '0% chance' of him being elected President, but America surprised the hell outta me and I believe they - we - did the right thing.
America as a whole is far more tolerant and accepting than the media would lead you to believe.
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The lower middle class and the black population voted in record numbers...that made a huge difference.
Missing the point... Assuming that you are trying to equate "black" and "lower middle class" demos with "uninformed voter", you can't limit the description to those two categories. There were plenty of conservative voters in 2004 who were uninformed. Earning more money, being white or even having been registered to vote longer don't necessarily mean that they were better informed.
Clinton had no choice but to sign...even if he had vetoed it had enough votes for his veto to be overturned...so he did the only thing he could that wouldn't make him an ass.
Not true. If this was the case, the Repubs wouldn't have made so many compromises. The bill had been introduced before and he'd vetoed it.
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I watched the video again and am literally sick to my stomach thinking these disgusting slobs canceled out my vote.
Typical democrats who ask the rest of us for welfare anf handouts.
No wonder this country is screwed. With fools like this we are truly doomed.
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I watched the video again and am literally sick to my stomach thinking these disgusting slobs canceled out my vote.
That's democracy for you. You apparently don't like it, so move to China.
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America as a whole is far more tolerant and accepting than the media would lead you to believe.
You sure have your finger on the pulse of True America, Mr.
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You sure have your finger on the pulse of True America, Mr.
No, the disgusting media tells everyone that all whites are closet racists which is obviously not true.
Look at how many stupid stories there were about the bradely effect and whether whites would actually vote for a black guy.
It was all leftist propaganda and lies like usual trying to paint whites as intolerant and racist.
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No, the disgusting media tells everyone that all whites are closet racists which is obviously not true.
Look at how many stupid stories there were about the bradely effect and whether whites would actually vote for a black guy.
It was all leftist propaganda and lies like usual trying to paint whites as intolerant and racist.
Um, as a guy who watches both msnbc and fox.... FOX made a much bigger deal of the Bradley effect than MSNBC did... they practically pretended it didn't exist. They ran a few pieces... but easily a 2:1 ratio in favor of FOX.
Palin admits there is both a left- and right- wing media in the USA.
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Most of the people who I have talked to have regreted voted for Obama (like I predicted) and it shows on Wall St. But NOW when you hear Obama make a speech, so far the only thing he says he's going to do is close Guantanamo, which is a retarded idea anyway. He's keeping most of the policies that Bush implimented...........ge e, I guess Bush wasn't so bad after all!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Joe-
Gitmo is a recruiting tool for Al-quida.
They use its existence to recruit more assholes to their cause.
We can keep these same folks in quieter prisons without all the hoopla. It's the gesturing, posturing that Gitmo represented, that helped Al-Q in iraq grow as large as it has.
Without that cause - we can achieve the same goals - and stop helping their recruitment.
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Most of the people who I have talked to have regreted voted for Obama (like I predicted) and it shows on Wall St. But NOW when you hear Obama make a speech, so far the only thing he says he's going to do is close Guantanamo, which is a retarded idea anyway. He's keeping most of the policies that Bush implimented...........ge e, I guess Bush wasn't so bad after all!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you think torture is ok?
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Most of the people who I have talked to have regreted voted for Obama (like I predicted) and it shows on Wall St. But NOW when you hear Obama make a speech, so far the only thing he says he's going to do is close Guantanamo, which is a retarded idea anyway. He's keeping most of the policies that Bush implimented...........ge e, I guess Bush wasn't so bad after all!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you expect adults to believe this?
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Missing the point... Assuming that you are trying to equate "black" and "lower middle class" demos with "uninformed voter", you can't limit the description to those two categories. There were plenty of conservative voters in 2004 who were uninformed. Earning more money, being white or even having been registered to vote longer don't necessarily mean that they were better informed.
I traveled to Ohio in August, because I wanted to get an idea of which way the state was leaning at that point.
A conversation with a cab driver - who is black - summed it all up for me. It may have been only one city in one state, but if even a quarter of Blacks in the working poor class were as informed about national politics as this gentleman, then Ohio was definitely going Democratic as a referendum on the Bush presidency.
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Um, as a guy who watches both msnbc and fox.... FOX made a much bigger deal of the Bradley effect than MSNBC did... they practically pretended it didn't exist. They ran a few pieces... but easily a 2:1 ratio in favor of FOX.
Palin admits there is both a left- and right- wing media in the USA.
There is a huge difference! The left wing media is also known as the "mainstream media" and is pervasive in outlets that are supposed to be "unbiased and neatural" like the NYT, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, ABC, WASHINGTON POST, LA TIMES, CNN, ETC. Fox news is not conservative and is tabloid other than for a few shows.
"Conservative Media" like talk radio makes no pretense about being unbiased.
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That's democracy for you. You apparently don't like it, so move to China.
We are supposed to be a federal republic, but I guess that is too much to ask for you to understand that.
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Do you expect adults to believe this?
No. Just another lie he is using to support his own delusions and prop that insecure ego up.
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...8. Obama running good campaign
9. McCain running bad campaign
...
Obama - unity and brotherhood
McCain - Terrorism fear greed
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Obama - unity and brotherhood
McCain - Terrorism fear greed
x2
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Obama - unity and brotherhood
McCain - Terrorism fear greed
Ha! Are you kidding me? Unity and brotherhood? Is this what Obama has brought to the table, is this what he's created inside the U.S.?
Come on, lay down the pipe and look at reality. America is still as divided as it was for the last 8 years. Of course when you watch any of the big 3 network news stations you would think Obama has already created a world of harmony among all the people.
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No harmony in Detroit, Wallstreet or anywhere else. This guy is bring back all old Clinton folks as well....gee thats great. Maybe for the economy if ur shortsighted and think it was all Clinton and not a Republican controlled congress that was responsible for the 90's boom. These are same foreign policy idiots that kicked the AQ can down the road to Bush.
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Ha! Are you kidding me? Unity and brotherhood? Is this what Obama has brought to the table, is this what he's created inside the U.S.?
Come on, lay down the pipe and look at reality. America is still as divided as it was for the last 8 years. Of course when you watch any of the big 3 network news stations you would think Obama has already created a world of harmony among all the people.
He just forgave Lieberman. He's making Clinton sec of state. Slated to have several repubs on his cabinet.
He's 2 weeks into being president-elect. He doesn't have any power yet. But he sure is surrounding himself with people who will challenge him. it's a good sign.
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He just forgave Lieberman. He's making Clinton sec of state. Slated to have several repubs on his cabinet.
He's 2 weeks into being president-elect. He doesn't have any power yet. But he sure is surrounding himself with people who will challenge him. it's a good sign.
I did not vote for the guy and have many suspicions. However, I hope he does well because if he screws up, we all will suffer greatly.
As far as picking the ex-clinton people, very wierd.
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Where is all this hope and change....funny the only people rioting are the left-wingers and fags in cali...good job Barry. Obama got elected fair and square..Prop 8 passed, fair and square and what do u get riots by the morons pissed because most of California voted for something they believed in.
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As far as picking the ex-clinton people, very wierd.
To fix the system, you have to understand it first. These folks do. True, they were part of its creation. But they know how to un-fvck the things that are fvcked. And we know they're competent.
Will it be Clinton II? If it is, the economy may recover, we'll have no major wars, he'll get re-elected, and maybe we'll have an entertaining BJ saga to follow on the news! I cna live with that, as much as I found bubba to be repulsive personally.
If clinton II is worst case, maybe best case is "start with the fundamentals of CLinton II and grow to something better". That'd be even better.
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Ha! Are you kidding me? Unity and brotherhood? Is this what Obama has brought to the table, is this what he's created inside the U.S.?
Come on, lay down the pipe and look at reality. America is still as divided as it was for the last 8 years. Of course when you watch any of the big 3 network news stations you would think Obama has already created a world of harmony among all the people.
Obama was elected b/c of his perspective of unity in working together...not on terror, fear, or the like. Sometimes the national identity swings towards cooperation instead of every man for himself. Bad times tend to unite a nation.
...unless of course if the dumbass leader asks only of the people to shop more in response to a crisis.
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There is a huge difference! The left wing media is also known as the "mainstream media" and is pervasive in outlets that are supposed to be "unbiased and neatural" like the NYT, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, ABC, WASHINGTON POST, LA TIMES, CNN, ETC. Fox news is not conservative and is tabloid other than for a few shows.
"Conservative Media" like talk radio makes no pretense about being unbiased.
oh really...
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To fix the system, you have to understand it first. These folks do. True, they were part of its creation. But they know how to un-fvck the things that are fvcked. And we know they're competent.
Will it be Clinton II? If it is, the economy may recover, we'll have no major wars, he'll get re-elected, and maybe we'll have an entertaining BJ saga to follow on the news! I cna live with that, as much as I found bubba to be repulsive personally.
If clinton II is worst case, maybe best case is "start with the fundamentals of CLinton II and grow to something better". That'd be even better.
Eric Holder sures knows how to get pardons for people like Marc Rich!!!!
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Eric Holder sures knows how to get pardons for people like Marc Rich!!!!
correct. was some corrupt ass shit. but he was doing what his boss, bill clinton, told him to do.
he possesses the knowledge and skill to change this system, when his boss isn't feeding him bullshit pardons to rubber stamp. He possesses the knowledge and skill to reveal any crimes committed by Bushco while in office, doesn't he?
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Ha! Are you kidding me? Unity and brotherhood? Is this what Obama has brought to the table, is this what he's created inside the U.S.?
Come on, lay down the pipe and look at reality. America is still as divided as it was for the last 8 years. Of course when you watch any of the big 3 network news stations you would think Obama has already created a world of harmony among all the people.
It took a VERY broad coalition of people for Obama to be elected President.
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Prop 8 passed, fair and square and what do u get riots by the morons pissed because most of California voted for something they believed in.
People have a right to 'believe' whatever they want.
But does the (state) constitution have the right to discriminate against any citizens?
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Do you think torture is ok?
No, but considering we never tortured anyone, it's kind of a non-issue.
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No, but considering we never tortured anyone, it's kind of a non-issue.
April 30, 2008, Bush admits he approved the use of torture, and that it was successful.
“As a matter of fact,” Bush added, “I told the country we did that. And I told them it was legal. We had legal opinions that enabled us to do it.” The president added, “I didn’t have any problems at all trying to find out what Khalid Sheik Mohammed knew.”
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No, but considering we never tortured anyone, it's kind of a non-issue.
I think we waterboard detainees. I'm pretty sure of it.
You are a conservative, right Coach?
You believe in the sanctity of tradition and US history, right?
The United States knows quite a bit about waterboarding. The U.S. government -- whether acting alone before domestic courts, commissions and courts-martial or as part of the world community -- has not only condemned the use of water torture but has severely punished those who applied it.
After World War II, we convicted several Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American and Allied prisoners of war. At the trial of his captors, then-Lt. Chase J. Nielsen, one of the 1942 Army Air Forces officers who flew in the Doolittle Raid and was captured by the Japanese, testified: "I was given several types of torture. . . . I was given what they call the water cure." He was asked what he felt when the Japanese soldiers poured the water. "Well, I felt more or less like I was drowning," he replied, "just gasping between life and death." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html
Tell me Coach, did waterboarding become something else with the passage of time?
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Define torture! I'll be the first one to admit that I'm for it if it's to protect our country and gather inside info on an attack. Here's a little senario for you....someone kidnaps your kid, wife or family member and you know someone has info on their where they are but won't give up the info.....what do do?
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In your case.... get divorced?
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Define torture! I'll be the first one to admit that I'm for it if it's to protect our country and gather inside info on an attack. Here's a little senario for you....someone kidnaps your kid, wife or family member and you know someone has info on their where they are but won't give up the info.....what do do?
In this case from the tribunal's records, the victim was a prisoner in the Japanese-occupied Dutch East Indies:
A towel was fixed under the chin and down over the face. Then many buckets of water were poured into the towel so that the water gradually reached the mouth and rising further eventually also the nostrils, which resulted in his becoming unconscious and collapsing like a person drowned. This procedure was sometimes repeated 5-6 times in succession.
Q: Was it painful?
A: Not so painful, but one becomes unconscious. Like drowning in the water.
Q: Like you were drowning?
A: Drowning -- you could hardly breathe.
They would lash me to a stretcher then prop me up against a table with my head down. They would then pour about two gallons of water from a pitcher into my nose and mouth until I lost consciousness.
And from the second prisoner: They laid me out on a stretcher and strapped me on. The stretcher was then stood on end with my head almost touching the floor and my feet in the air. . . . They then began pouring water over my face and at times it was almost impossible for me to breathe without sucking in water.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170_2.html
On October 15, 2008, it was reported that the Bush administration had issued a pair of secret memos to the CIA in June 2003 and June 2004 explicitly endorsing waterboarding and other torture techniques against al-Qaeda suspects.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/14/AR2008101403331.html
Now you must admit Coach, either you are not a conservative b/c you endorse the torture of other human beings or you were mistaken all along with your facts.
Which is it?
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correct. was some corrupt ass shit. but he was doing what his boss, bill clinton, told him to do.
he possesses the knowledge and skill to change this system, when his boss isn't feeding him bullshit pardons to rubber stamp. He possesses the knowledge and skill to reveal any crimes committed by Bushco while in office, doesn't he?
Oh great, it is ok to cover up clinton crimes, but you expect him to reveal Bush crimes?
What a joke this government is going to be under Obama.
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Define torture! I'll be the first one to admit that I'm for it if it's to protect our country and gather inside info on an attack. Here's a little senario for you....someone kidnaps your kid, wife or family member and you know someone has info on their where they are but won't give up the info.....what do do?
Anyone with any sense know that if you have someone you know for a fact has secrets say, ABOUT AN IMPENDING OR IMMINIENT NUCLEAR OR TERRORIST THREAT, that it is irresponsible to not do anything any everything to protect the innocent lives of this country.
Liberals who would rather sacrifice thousands of citizens to third world savages just so some barbarian does not get water poured over his head are truly deranged and sick.
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1. You never answered my question.
2. We are talking about 1 person out the 500 or so that are there.
3. If someone consoders that torture, the what do they say about cops who use tasers? I'll take the water any day, any time.
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1. You never answered my question.
2. We are talking about 1 person out the 500 or so that are there.
3. If someone consoders that torture, the what do they say about cops who use tasers? I'll take the water any day, any time.
I repeat, any person who is against pouring water over someone's head who has knowledge about an impending terrorist attack is a true America hater and disgusting traitor.
The mental disorder and derangement that would lead some on this board to be against waterboarding people who know about activities and plans that can result in the deaths of thousands of our citizens is just amazing. In fact, if that is what we have come to as a country, than Al Aqueda has already won since it shows we are paper tigers and not willing to defend our nation.
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Its beyond me why anybody cares about these people in Gitmo...actually i do know. They have never met them, never felt harmed or threatened, never served the country in any capacity. 911 and the war are something seen on TV or the internet. Wake the fuck up...these people hate us, they hate Barry...they hate the West. Waterboarding is the least we ought to be doing.
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I repeat, any person who is against pouring water over someone's head who has knowledge about an impending terrorist attack is a true America hater and disgusting traitor.
The mental disorder and derangement that would lead some on this board to be against waterboarding people who know about activities and plans that can result in the deaths of thousands of our citizens is just amazing. In fact, if that is what we have come to as a country, than Al Aqueda has already won since it shows we are paper tigers and not willing to defend our nation.
So after WWII, we got it wrong when we found the Japs guilty of torture for waterboarding?
Torture doesn't work. It's counter-productive yet you make your point by citing an episode of 24.
"I know torture works b/c Kieffer Sutherland tortured Peter Weller and he spilled the beans!"
Don't we 'beat' Al Qaeda when we stick to our principles? Isn't that one of the goals of AQ, to ruin our country? What better way to do that than destroying that which makes us the best place on the planet?
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So after WWII, we got it wrong when we found the Japs guilty of torture for waterboarding?
Torture doesn't work. It's counter-productive yet you make your point by citing an episode of 24.
"I know torture works b/c Kieffer Sutherland tortured Peter Weller and he spilled the beans!"
Don't we 'beat' Al Qaeda when we stick to our principles? Isn't that one of the goals of AQ, to ruin our country? What better way to do that than destroying that which makes us the best place on the planet?
If you feel that it is a good thing allowing thousands of citizens to die in the name of sticking to ones principles in not pouring water over someones' head, you are really a disturbed person.
Let me ask you this, if your child were kidnapped and the police had in custody a co-conspirator who knew where your child was, would you object to them pouring water over the guys' head to get your child back???
The constitution is not a suicide pact with terrorists who would kill you and your family in a flash. If you think for a second they respect your grand ideas, you are really misguided and living in an alternate state of reality.
They laugh at us when we have these stupid arguments because it is only another sign of weakness.
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If you feel that it is a good thing allowing thousands of citizens to die in the name of sticking to ones principles in not pouring water over someones' head, you are really a disturbed person.
Let me ask you this, if your child were kidnapped and the police had in custody a co-conspirator who knew where your child was, would you object to them pouring water over the guys' head to get your child back???
The constitution is not a suicide pact with terrorists who would kill you and your family in a flash. If you think for a second they respect your grand ideas, you are really misguided and living in an alternate state of reality.
They laugh at us when we have these stupid arguments because it is only another sign of weakness.
Torture does not work.
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/10/fbi-interrogator-tor.html
http://www.cvt.org/main.php/Advocacy/TheCampaigntoStopTorture/WhatCVTknowsaboutTorture
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So after WWII, we got it wrong when we found the Japs guilty of torture for waterboarding?
Torture doesn't work. It's counter-productive yet you make your point by citing an episode of 24.
"I know torture works b/c Kieffer Sutherland tortured Peter Weller and he spilled the beans!"
Don't we 'beat' Al Qaeda when we stick to our principles? Isn't that one of the goals of AQ, to ruin our country? What better way to do that than destroying that which makes us the best place on the planet?
This is where you need to get it right and realize this is no war that has ever been seen. There are no uniforms to distinguish who the enemy is or isn't, there are no rules of war that they follow, you and everyone else against this war try to compare it to others, you can't.....period.
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Torture does not work.
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/10/fbi-interrogator-tor.html
http://www.cvt.org/main.php/Advocacy/TheCampaigntoStopTorture/WhatCVTknowsaboutTorture
So let them go? right? We set up a new court system just for them, correct? and then what, they go to trial, find out they haven't been read their Miranda's and they get set free on a technicality?
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This is where you need to get it right and realize this is no war that has ever been seen. There are no uniforms to distinguish who the enemy is or isn't, there are no rules of war that they follow, you and everyone else against this war try to compare it to others, you can't.....period.
So torture has gotten better with age.
You are not a conservative. You are a radical right winger.
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So let them go? right? We set up a new court system just for them, correct? and then what, they go to trial, find out they haven't been read their Miranda's and they get set free on a technicality?
Why would someone let go a suspected terrorist?
We should try them and then punish them.
Or we could take your tact and torture and kill our way to safety!
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Torture does not work.
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/10/fbi-interrogator-tor.html
http://www.cvt.org/main.php/Advocacy/TheCampaigntoStopTorture/WhatCVTknowsaboutTorture
Im not saying it always works, but it might work when it is needed most.
I am saying that I dont want our country hamstrung in the event that waterboarding became necessary for some reason in the event of an impending terrorist attack.
Does torture work all the time, of course not. But if it works just once, and that one time saves thousands of lives, we should not hesitate for a second.
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Obama - unity and brotherhood
McCain - Terrorism fear greed
Obama = $600 million and 30 minute infomercial on eve of election in prime on every major network except CNN.
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Why would someone let go a suspected terrorist?
We should try them and then punish them.
Or we could take your tact and torture and kill our way to safety!
Because they would try them in a criminal court instead of a military tribunal. Again, define torture and then remember the taser analogy.
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Obama = $600 million and 30 minute infomercial on eve of election in prime on every major network except CNN.
LOL... RNC could have put on just as spectacular an infomercial for mccain... except the $ stopped rolling in.
Obama had more money because he had more voters and more supporters. Move on, dude. More Americans wanted him to win. Period.
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::)
(http://cubanology.com/Aymee/PiperObama.jpg)
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Because they would try them in a criminal court instead of a military tribunal. Again, define torture and then remember the taser analogy.
I did.
During World War II both Japanese troops, especially the Kempeitai, and the officers of the Gestapo,[54] the German secret police, used waterboarding as a method of torture.[55] During the Japanese occupation of Singapore the Double Tenth Incident occurred. This included waterboarding, by the method of binding or holding down the victim on his back, placing a cloth over his mouth and nose, and pouring water onto the cloth. In this version, interrogation continued during the torture, with the interrogators beating the victim if he did not reply and the victim swallowing water if he opened his mouth to answer or breathe. When the victim could ingest no more water, the interrogators would beat or jump on his distended stomach.[56][57]
Chase J. Nielsen, one of the U.S. airmen who flew in the Doolittle raid following the attack on Pearl Harbour, was subjected to waterboarding by his Japanese captors.[58] At their trial for war crimes following the war, he testified "Well, I was put on my back on the floor with my arms and legs stretched out, one guard holding each limb. The towel was wrapped around my face and put across my face and water poured on. They poured water on this towel until I was almost unconscious from strangulation, then they would let up until I’d get my breath, then they’d start over again... I felt more or less like I was drowning, just gasping between life and death".[30]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding#World_War_II
And you saw the memo by Bush giving the go-ahead to use waterboarding.
It was a war crime then and it is now.
I'm not going to respond anymore to this in this thread b/c it's off topic.
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(http://cubanology.com/Aymee/PiperObama.jpg)
Nice. And look at all the democRATs.
You'll be dancing to his tune as well when universal healthcare hits the stage.
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Nice. And look at all the democRATs.
You'll be dancing to his tune as well when universal healthcare hits the stage.
We'll see. :)
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He just forgave Lieberman. He's making Clinton sec of state. Slated to have several repubs on his cabinet.
He's 2 weeks into being president-elect. He doesn't have any power yet. But he sure is surrounding himself with people who will challenge him. it's a good sign.
This isn't brotherhood/unity...this is simply more of the same partisan politics everyone plays. I swear, sometimes I wonder if there is some back room in DC where all these guys get together like pro wrestlers do and have a big laugh.
Torture does not work.
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/10/fbi-interrogator-tor.html
http://www.cvt.org/main.php/Advocacy/TheCampaigntoStopTorture/WhatCVTknowsaboutTorture
Wow!....Bullshit.
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http://howobamagotelected.com/
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:)