Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: dodger on November 20, 2008, 02:50:26 PM
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Has anyone here every tried that ketogenic diet with the protein,and good fats diet.And what type of good fats are they eating,eg:avocados,walnuts,fish oils,etc.Does this shit diet really work,,,anybody
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yes and it works.
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I think it does work, very well in fact but you can't have walnuts or avacados, too mnay carbs. You should go max of 30grams a day in my experience.
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just eat a balanced diet.
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I think it does work, very well in fact but you can't have walnuts or avacados, too mnay carbs. You should go max of 30grams a day in my experience.
No Walnuts? Really...
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No Walnuts? Really...
Walnuts unfortunately have too many carbs for that diet. The only safe ones are Brazil Nuts, have the lowest carb count...
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What about almonds?
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I hope this helps you
I wouldn't do it, and here is why
1. Low carb (ketogenic) diets deplete the healthy glycogen (the storage form of glucose) stores in your muscles and liver. When you deplete glycogen stores, you also dehydrate, often causing the scale to drop significantly in the first week or two of the diet. This is usually interpreted as fat loss when it's actually mostly from dehydration and muscle loss. By the way, this is one of the reasons that low carb diets are so popular at the moment - there is a quick initial, but deceptive drop in scale weight.
Glycogenesis (formation of glycogen) occurs in the liver and muscles when adequate quantities of carbohydrates are consumed - very little of this happens on a low carb diet. Glycogenolysis (breakdown of glycogen) occurs when glycogen is broken down to form glucose for use as fuel.
2. Depletion of muscle glycogen causes you to fatigue easily, and makes exercise and movement uncomfortable. Research indicates that muscle fatigue increases in almost direct proportion to the rate of depletion of muscle glycogen. Bottom line is that you don't feel energetic and you exercise and move less (often without realizing it) which is not good for caloric expenditure and basal metabolic rate (metabolism).
3. Depletion of muscle glycogen leads to muscle atrophy (loss of muscle). This happens because muscle glycogen (broken down to glucose) is the fuel of choice for the muscle during movement. There is always a fuel mix, but without muscle glycogen, the muscle fibers that contract, even at rest to maintain muscle tone, contract less when glycogen is not immediately available in the muscle. Depletion of muscle glycogen also causes you to exercise and move less than normal which leads to muscle loss and the inability to maintain adequate muscle tone.
Also, in the absence of adequate carbohydrate for fuel, the body initially uses protein (muscle) and fat. the initial phase of muscle depletion is rapid, caused by the use of easily accessed muscle protein for direct metabolism or for conversion to glucose (gluconeogenesis) for fuel. Eating excess protein does not prevent this because there is a caloric deficit.
When insulin levels are chronically too low as they may be in very low carb diets, catabolism (breakdown) of muscle protein increases, and protein synthesis stops.
4. Loss of muscle causes a decrease in your basal metabolic rate (metabolism). Metabolism happens in the muscle. Less muscle and muscle tone means a slower metabolism which means fewer calories burned 24 hours-a-day.
5. Your muscles and skin lack tone and are saggy. Saggy muscles don't look good, cause saggy skin, and cause you to lose a healthy, vibrant look (even if you've also lost fat).
6. Some proponents of low carb diets recommend avoiding carbohydrates such as bread, pasta, potatoes, carrots, etc. because of they are high on the glycemic index - causing a sharp rise in insulin. Certain carbohydrates have always been, and will always be the bad guys: candy, cookies, baked goods with added sugar, sugared drinks, processed / refined white breads, pastas, and rice, and any foods with added sugar. These are not good for health or weight loss. However, carbohydrates such as fruits, vegetables, legumes, whole grain breads and pastas, and brown rice are good for health and weight loss. Just like with proteins and fats, these carbohydrates should be eaten in moderation. Large volumes of any proteins, fats or carbohydrates are not conducive to weight loss and health.
The effect of high glycemic foods is often exaggerated. It's does matter, but to a smaller degree than is often portrayed. Also, the total glycemic effect of foods is influenced by the quantity of that food that you eat at a sitting. Smaller meals have a lower overall glycemic effect. Also, we usually eat several types of food at the same time, thereby reducing the average glycemic index of the meal, if higher glycemic foods are eaten. Also, glycemic index values can be misleading because they are based on a standard 50 grams of carbohydrate consumed. It wouldn't take much candy bar to get that, but it would take four cups of carrots. Do you usually eat four cups of carrots at a meal?
Regular exercisers and active people also are less effected by higher glycemic foods because much of the carbohydrate comsumed is immediately used to replenish glycogen stores in the liver and muscle.
By the way, if you're interested in lowering insulin levels, there is a great way to do that - exercise and activity.
7. Much of the weight loss on a low carb, high protein diet, especially in the first few weeks, is actually because of dehydration and muscle loss.
8. The percentage of people that re-gain the weight they've lost with most methods of weight loss is high, but it's even higher with low carb, high protein diets. This is primarily due to three factors:
A. You have lost muscle. With that comes a slower metabolism which means fewer calories are burned 24 hours-a-day. A loss of muscle during the process of losing weight is almost a guarantee for re-gaining the lost weight, and more.
B. You re-gain the healthy fluid lost because of glycogen depletion.
C. It's difficult to maintain that type of diet long-term.
D. You have not made a change to a long-term healthy lifestyle.
9. Eating too much fat is just not healthy. I know you've heard of people whose blood levels of cholesterol and triglycerides have decreased while on a low carb, high protein diet. This often happens with weight loss, but it doesn't continue when you're on a diet high in fat. There are literally reams of research over decades that clearly indicates that an increase in consumption of animal products and/or saturated fat leads to increased incidence of heart disease, strokes, gall stones, kidney stones, arthritic symptoms, certain cancers, etc. For example, in comparing countries with varying levels of meat consumption, there is a direct relationship between the volume of meat consumption in a country and the incidence of digestive cancers (stomach, intestines, rectal, etc.).
Fat is certainly necessary, and desirable in your diet, but they should be mostly healthy fats and in moderation. Manufactured / synthetic "low fat" foods with lots of added sugar are not the answer. Neither are manufactured / synthetic "low carb" foods with artificial sweeteners or added fat. By the way, use of artificial sweeteners has never been shown to aid in weight loss and they may pose health problems. According to Dr. Keith-Thomas Ayoob of Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York, "In my experience, unless you're willing to throw out decades of research, you cannot ignore that diets chronically high in saturated fats are linked to heart disease," Dr. Ayoob is also a spokesman for the American Dietetic Association and says that low carb, high protein diets are an attempt at a quick fix and not a long-term lifestyle change.
10. As someone recently told me, "it must work - people are losing weight". People that are truly losing fat on low carb, high protein diets, are doing so because they are eating fewer calories - that's the bottom line. There is no magic - the same can be done on a healthy diet.
11. Low carb diets are lacking in fiber. Every plant-based food has some fiber. All animal products have no fiber. A lack of fiber increases your risk for cancers of the digestive track (because transit time is lengthened) and cardiovascular disease (because of fibers effect on fat and cholesterol). It also puts you at a higher risk for constipation and other bowel disorders.
12. Low carb diets lack sufficient quantities of the the many nutrients / phytonutrients / antioxidants found in fruits, vegetables, legumes, and whole grains, necessary for health and aiding in prevention of cancer and heart disease. In fact, you need these nutrients even more so when you're consuming too much fat as is often the case on a low carb high protein diet.
13. Amercans already consume more than twice the amount of protein needed. Add to that a high protein diet and you have far too much protein consumption. By the way, most people don't realize that all fruits, all vegetables, all whole grains, and all legumes also contain protein. Animal products contain larger quantities of protein, but that may not be a good thing. Excess dietary protein puts you at a higher risk for many health problems: gout (painful joints from high purine foods which are usually high protein foods), kidney disease, kidney stones, osteoporosis (excess dietary protein causes leeching of calcium from the bones). By the way, countries with lower, healthier intakes of protein also have a decreased incidence of osteoporosis.
14. Low carb, high protein diets cause an unhealthy physiological state called ketosis, a type of metabolic acidosis. You may have heard the phrase, "fat burns in the flame of carbohydrate". Excess acetyl CoA cannot enter the Krebs Cycle (you remember the old Krebs Cycle) due to insufficient OAA. In other words, for fat to burn efficiently and without production of excess toxic ketones, sufficient carbohydrate must be available. Ketosis can lead to many health problems and can be very serious at it's extreme.
15. Bad breath. Often called "keto breath" or "acetone breath", it's caused by production of acetones in a state of ketosis.
So why the low carb, high protein craze? I believe there are several reasons.
A. Weight loss (mostly muscle and muscle fluid) is often rapid during the first few weeks. This causes people to think they're losing fat rapidly.
B. It gives you "permission" to eat the "bad foods": bacon, eggs, burgers, steak, cheese, etc., and lots of fat.
C. Many see it as the new "magic" they've been looking for, although it's been around, in various forms, since the 1960's.
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I thought I did it for the last 10 days before the GB 3 contest, but I was eating a half cup of walnuts with 1 meal, so I guess I wasn't on it...but it leaned me out, and I felt energetic on it.
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Regardless of those things, it's just not necessary to lose weight. Just eat a balanced diet, several meals a day and exercise. Why make it harder by coming up with these ridiculously strict diets of what you can and can't eat?
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I thought I did it for the last 10 days before the GB 3 contest, but I was eating a half cup of walnuts with 1 meal, so I guess I wasn't on it...but it leaned me out, and I felt energetic on it.
Your body only enters real ketosis after the glycogen reserves have been virtually exhausted. Best way to get into Ketosis in a few days time is just to eat meat, fish and zero carb isolates.
I am not doing it now but I have had the best results from ketogenic diets and not just water. The fat really melts off.
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I hope this helps you
I wouldn't do it, and here is why
epic google copy and paste ::) ::)
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Its not really strict, it's actually filling and pretty easy. Heres what I did:
Meal
1: 7 whole eggs, cup of black coffee
2: 50 grams whey isolate, 2 scoops of all natty almond butter
3: " "
4: 1 chicken breast, small spinach salad w/cucumbers and evoo, 1/2 walnuts
5: 1 Sirloin steak, grilled asparugus
6: 2 Orange ruffy fillets, steamed brocoli, 2 scoops of natty peanut butter
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Its not really strict, it's actually filling and pretty easy. Heres what I did:
Meal
1: 7 whole eggs, cup of black coffee
2: 50 grams whey isolate, 2 scoops of all natty almond butter
3: " "
4: 1 chicken breast, small spinach salad w/cucumbers and evoo, 1/2 walnuts
5: 1 Sirloin steak, grilled asparugus
6: 2 Orange ruffy fillets, steamed brocoli, 2 scoops of natty peanut butter
Too many carbs for ketosis...
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I hope this helps you
I wouldn't do it, and here is why
AXA - I'd think you'd struggle with any diet let alone a keto diet.
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Too many carbs for ketosis...
Why? This is pretty much the Palumbo diet..other then the eggs/walnuts?
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Why? This is pretty much the Palumbo diet..other then the eggs/walnuts?
The rough rule is 30 grams or under...the lower the better...almond and peanut butter are loaded with carbs...
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2 tbsp all natty pb= 6 g of carbs..
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reading about a lot of it and says you have to keep up the calories just reduce all the carbs but take 1 day to load up on carbs?????And that you dont lose weight,just fat,,the good fat supposed to take over for stored energy which burns out bad fat,,,thats just what im reading,,,i dont know,,,,just looking to see how many know about this.
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All I know is that it leaned me out by being on it for 11 days, went from this to this...
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I personally prefere the TKD diet. It's like a keto but you eat a very reasonable amount of carbs either just after your workout or split it just before and after your workout. I find a pure keto isn't good for my energy and makes me too flat.
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You know what I think it may be good to do for short periods, maybe carb cycle for a month, then keto for 2 weeks, keep switching and shocking the system, this maybe a good approach I'm going to play around with.
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what about if your in the 220 lb range or 260 lb range,does it benefit all weight classes
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I'm still new to it, but I think it's beneficial for any weight/body type, only things is I know there are some people that just have to have carbs.
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I'm still new to it, but I think it's beneficial for any weight/body type, only things is I know there are some people that just have to have carbs.
good shape there go 4 it,how much yu weigh in 2nd pic,how much weight difference from 2 pics
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good shape there go 4 it,how much yu weigh in 2nd pic,how much weight difference from 2 pics
First pic is pretty much how I look in the winter visible abs, but not shredded, not much cardio or dieting, I probably weighed around 172 or so. Sencond pic 165.
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MEN'S DIET
MEAL #1
4 whole Omega-3 Eggs (with 4 additional whites)
MEAL #2
SHAKE: 40g protein with 1 Tablespoon of All Natural PB
MEAL #3
"Lean Protein Meal" 6oz chicken (or Turkey, or tilapia, flounder, or cod) with 1/3-cup RAW almonds, cashews or walnuts
MEAL #4
Repeat MEAL #3
MEAL #5
"Fatty Protein Meal" 6oz Salmon, Swordfish, or 8oz RED MEAT (filet mignon, or top round cut) with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar
MEAL #6 40g protein with 1 tablespoon of All Natural Peanutbutter
*****MEAL ORDER IS UNIMPORTANT. ALL MEALS ARE EQUAL.
***ONCE A WEEK, HAVE A CHEAT MEAL (instead of MEAL #6) - try to make it the last meal of the day (start after 2 weeks on the diet)
*** You can use sugar-free soy sauce, mustard, and vinegar for condiments.
*** You can drink water, sugar-free drinks (diet soda), coffee, or tea with STEVIA BALANCE (no Equal or Splenda Packets).
*** NO GUM CHEWING (limit to 3 pieces per day)
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In my opinion THE best diet available to a bodybuilder/trainer looking to cut down. I used this diet for my last cut-down and had virtually no apetite/craving even on as low as 1200 calories. I found that the only supplements I needed were additional vitamin C, zinc, multi-vitamin and evening primrose oil. Omega 3 can be easily obtained from salmon etc. The funny thing is that I managed to maintain my strength using this diet for 6 months without a single "carb up" day. What I will say though, is that anyone looking to go intense in the gym for the purpose of adding additional muscle, should look to include a a couple of carb up days so that glycogen can be utilised to full effect. What I love about it most, is the feeling of well-being you get, I put this down to the brains ability to run very well off of ketones, much better in fact than sugar.
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In my opinion THE best diet available to a bodybuilder/trainer looking to cut down. I used this diet for my last cut-down and had virtually no apetite/craving even on as low as 1200 calories. I found that the only supplements I needed were additional vitamin C, zinc, multi-vitamin and evening primrose oil. Omega 3 can be easily obtained from salmon etc. The funny thing is that I managed to maintain my strength using this diet for 6 months without a single "carb up" day. What I will say though, is that anyone looking to go intense in the gym for the purpose of adding additional muscle, should look to include a a couple of carb up days so that glycogen can be utilised to full effect. What I love about it most, is the feeling of well-being you get, I put this down to the brains ability to run very well off of ketones, much better in fact than sugar.
now this is what ive been reading about this.....yes it says that you dont lose strenght and can actually gain strenght if your only training moderate to high intensity instead of full blown high-super intensity....less stress on organs and joints....but i would like to know if you can gain weight as long as you are keeping up the same calorie intake..and i did read that you do feel great on this.
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MEN'S DIET
MEAL #1
4 whole Omega-3 Eggs (with 4 additional whites)
MEAL #2
SHAKE: 40g protein with 1 Tablespoon of All Natural PB
MEAL #3
"Lean Protein Meal" 6oz chicken (or Turkey, or tilapia, flounder, or cod) with 1/3-cup RAW almonds, cashews or walnuts
MEAL #4
Repeat MEAL #3
MEAL #5
"Fatty Protein Meal" 6oz Salmon, Swordfish, or 8oz RED MEAT (filet mignon, or top round cut) with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar
MEAL #6 40g protein with 1 tablespoon of All Natural Peanutbutter
*****MEAL ORDER IS UNIMPORTANT. ALL MEALS ARE EQUAL.
***ONCE A WEEK, HAVE A CHEAT MEAL (instead of MEAL #6) - try to make it the last meal of the day (start after 2 weeks on the diet)
*** You can use sugar-free soy sauce, mustard, and vinegar for condiments.
*** You can drink water, sugar-free drinks (diet soda), coffee, or tea with STEVIA BALANCE (no Equal or Splenda Packets).
*** NO GUM CHEWING (limit to 3 pieces per day)
It looks like you have been spending some time over at Dave Palumbo's thread on MD. This is the diet I will be using for my first show in a few months. Everyone over there raves about it and Dave knows his shit as well as anyone in bodybuilding.
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keto is not for gaining weight, unless you add carbs. 200-300g per day distributed throughout the meals.
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It looks like you have been spending some time over at Dave Palumbo's thread on MD. This is the diet I will be using for my first show in a few months. Everyone over there raves about it and Dave knows his shit as well as anyone in bodybuilding.
it's good and free info. I got shredded for a show using the info. Checkout my pics on the positive board.
(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u66/AVBG/6.jpg)
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Hmm, I'm not sure what to think on the gaining muscle part. I think that calories play the most vital role in muscle growth. My analogy of nutrition is this; amino acids are the bricks and mortar, calories are the builders/workmen. I believe that if you have additonal calories in the form of bodyfat on your body, then you can grow even in a calorie deficit. It's when bodyfat is very low that a surplus of calories from food are needed for additonal growth.
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I hope this helps you
I wouldn't do it, and here is why
Have you ever tried it the RIGHT way? I will tell you that if you didnt.....you are missing out. My buddy Jeff Krabbe was helping Lyle out with the Ketogenic diet book gave me some good insight on how to do it right. Its a little different than what the book had. Let me say that I carbed from friday night till saturday night. Sunday's chest/back workout was nothing short of incredible. The pump was almost drug-like.
In any event....if you cant tell someone why not to do a diet without googling something....it would be best not to give advice like you just did.
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Have you ever tried it the RIGHT way? I will tell you that if you didnt.....you are missing out. My buddy Jeff Krabbe was helping Lyle out with the Ketogenic diet book gave me some good insight on how to do it right. Its a little different than what the book had. Let me say that I carbed from friday night till saturday night. Sunday's chest/back workout was nothing short of incredible. The pump was almost drug-like.
In any event....if you cant tell someone why not to do a diet without googling something....it would be best not to give advice like you just did.
Exactly, all this talk of muscle loss and such is trash. Most people see themselves a little bit depleted, a little bit flatter and they scream "muscle loss!". You are in a calorie defecit you are NOT going to have the fullest looking muscles whichever "diet" you are using. The body can survive perfectly fine without dietary carbohydrates, any sugar it does need in fact it will manufacture itself, which by the way is a very insignificant amount once you are taking into account energy given by triglycerides/ketones. Another small note to AXA, on the subject of "muscle loss"; did you know that reducing dietary carbohydrates to limited amounts maximises Growth Hormone. When you take into account what this magical hormone does for muscle growth/bodyfat loss your argument seems flawed.
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AXA - I'd think you'd struggle with any diet let alone a keto diet.
probably,
I love food. :)
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probably,
I love food. :)
We all love food. I think that's why we talk about it so much, but whether we're willing to cut back a little bit is dependant on how badly we want results.
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i wrote this some time back on another forum
1st of all why do you loose fat when on a ketogenic diet??
The brain need 150g sugar and 2000 liter oxygen per day … however when you are giving you body less carbohydrates (sugar) the brain starts to give signals that it needs sugar and makes you feel hungry and feel depressed regardless how much protein and fat you eat for the first 3 or 4 days … then after the brain gets convinced that no sugar is going in … “Ketons” are released in the blood stream and the body turns to the ketosis mode
In this phase the body is using fat as a source of energy (for the brain and rest of the organs and activates) however … the body tends to release stored fat only when fat is coming in the body that’s why you should continue taking good fat (essential fat) … a rule of thumb is 1-1.5g protein per lbs + .75g essential fat + carbs only from vegetable that is mostly fiber and the human body cannot digest fiber and use it as a source of energy (the human body doesn’t have the enzymes required to convert fiber to usable energy source)
So no starch, dairy, fruit sugar is allowed in this diet (i.e lactose & fructose)
Types of fat:
If you take in any kind of fat ... the diet will still work perfectly fine … but in sports nutrition “HEALTH” is the 1st aspect of any diet … so fat should be consumed from the follow:
1. raw and non-roasted nuts (pistachio, cashew nut, almonds, whole nut … but not from peanuts)
2. omega 3 and 6 balanced oils … like fish oil … however olive oil is hi in omega 6 and flax seed is hi in omega 3 and neither is a balanced choice … that’s y “Udo Erasmus” who is discovered flaxseed oil made a blend and called it “Udo’s choice” which has a balance of all 3 omegas (3,6,9) … what I recommend is half table spoon of flaxseed oil and half table spoon of olive oil to get a balanced omega 3 and 6 oil … and if you are taking 2 table spoons of oil .. than 1 tbl spn flaxseed oil and 1 tbl spn olive oil … cheaper and effective … BUT “DON’T COOK WITH IT”
3. almond butter, whole nut butter, cashew nut butter without any additive sugar … so a 100g of the butter should only have around 5 grams carbs … which is what u get from the actual nut
4. egg yolks are ok … however omega 3 eggs are better (if eaten raw) but it is too expensive … just stick to the regular eggs and you will be fine
What is Saturated and Trans fat?
Saturated fat can be found in red poultry (duck and turkey) and red meat … however saturated fat has been proven to be necessary for testosterone production and is a must have in any diet.
After 8 years of research and spending hell lot of money on researches to discover what is the main reason for heart diseases in the past few decades … “Trans fat” was announced to be the winner … trans fat is a type of fat that doesn’t exist in nature … it is created when over heating fat or oil … so it was created by humans … after that research … every company in the states and some European countries were obliged to have a trans fat row in their nutrition fact label … so if you will get most of you fat from t-bone steak and deep fried chicken the diet will definitely work ... however not a healthy choice … so it is better to make the diet work and stay I the safe zone …
If you follow what “Dr. Atkins” advocated he didn’t really care what type of fat you ate … but you got to keep an eye on you cholesterol and triglyceride which will stay moderate as long as you don’t take hi sugar … but will be like a “TIMED BOMB” waiting to explode once you go off the diet and eat sugar … where as with healthy fat … you might experience a bit hi cholesterol … but for athletes hi cholesterol is common for good testosterone production (and most of it will be HDL anyway)
When you do this diet … usually a lot of people loose 2-4KGs in the first 4 days cause you body is getting the glycogen out of the muscle and no water is stored with respect to glycogen storage (cause of 0 carbs) … joint will get a bit weaker again for the reason of less water retention … so increasing your sodium and taking any form of “Glucosamine” is advised.
Sex drive wont be at its peak … but you will have 80% of it all the time with out getting crazy hormone rage or crashing after that (like what happens in a hi carb diet) … once you get use to it … you will be stable and will be able to think straight and the depression will go away (that is after the 4 days)
You can stay on this diet for 16-20 weeks maximum and only when getting for shoow and how far away you are … later on you can get back on a regular diet … a 40% protein 40%carbs and 20% essential fat will be just fine … just stay away from “HI FUCTOSE CORN SYRUP”
Uric acid and BUN “Blood Urea Nitrogen” can usually get hi in any high protein diet … and that occurs when consuming more protein than you use … Uric acid and BUN are referred to as protein waste as well … however HMB has proven to drop those values by holding the protein synthesis.
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To be honest I am considering do this for a while again...kind of sad to be at a plateau in the 20% range or so...but... :-\
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I've done the Atkins diet in the past....my only carbs were coming from vegetables for a while.
Personally, not something I'd recommend if you want energy in the gym. Sure, your body gets 'used' to it but lifting weights was becoming more of me trying to summon mental strength instead of physical. To the point when it was just not fun anymore and depleting me.
When in ketosis I was always thirsty, needed to piss a lot and felt quite nervous and edgy for some reason and needed to eat someting every 2 hours or I just wouldn't have any energy, like running on empty without any reserves in the tank.
But what has worked and which I feel overall really good with is to have a low carb diet with lots of good quality protein, vegatables and fruit. And to stay away from foods containing wheat and gluten. But to still stay just above ketosis.
Basically only eating foods that aren't processed and what humans were designed to eat.
It's only the last few thousand years that humans have started farming....before that the only food we ate was what we hunted and some occasional fruits and vegetables picked from nature and not cultivated.
I've tried a higher carb diet recently and felt terrible and was getting sick really easily as well. On the 'caveman diet', my energy, mood, health and everything just feels better.
Just my own opinion though and what works for me.....might be different for other body types.
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I've done the Atkins diet in the past....my only carbs were coming from vegetables for a while.
Personally, not something I'd recommend if you want energy in the gym. Sure, your body gets 'used' to it but lifting weights was becoming more of me trying to summon mental strength instead of physical. To the point when it was just not fun anymore and depleting me.
When in ketosis I was always thirsty, needed to piss a lot and felt quite nervous and edgy for some reason and needed to eat someting every 2 hours or I just wouldn't have any energy, like running on empty without any reserves in the tank.
But what has worked and which I feel overall really good with is to have a low carb diet with lots of good quality protein, vegatables and fruit. And to stay away from foods containing wheat and gluten. But to still stay just above ketosis.
Basically only eating foods that aren't processed and what humans were designed to eat.
It's only the last few thousand years that humans have started farming....before that the only food we ate was what we hunted and some occasional fruits and vegetables picked from nature and not cultivated.
I've tried a higher carb diet recently and felt terrible and was getting sick really easily as well. On the 'caveman diet', my energy, mood, health and everything just feels better.
Just my own opinion though and what works for me.....might be different for other body types.
In your definition what does the caveman diet entail?
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in all honesty. i used that diet for almost 6 months. in that time my strength went to shit, i was always tired, my shoulders were dry, and in the end i ended up with torn rotators. i lost some weight, but it eventually stalled at 1500cals.
even after rehab, my shoulders were still hurting for months.
as soon as i added carbs back, my strength shot up, my shoulders now feel fine, i have energy again, i'm sleeping better.
i'm not saying don't try it, but if you do i would try a tkd version. i feel it worked much better than .
if you feel the way i did i would pack it in and go low fat instead.
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In your definition what does the caveman diet entail?
Basically just keeping more to the types of foods that humans would have eaten when we were still hunter-gatherers. Foods like beef, chicken, fish and lots of fruit, vegetables and some nuts and seeds.
And to stay away from foods like bread, pasta, pastries, rice, foods with processed sugars or just processed foods in general.
I also stay away from protein shakes, soya and milk (except yoghurt)
This is just my loose interpretation of such diet and I don't think it should be absolute. For instance I do have some oats and I sometimes will have some burgers from Mcdonald's but this is very rare. I also eat organic peanut-butter.
And if I feel hungry, I eat, it doesn't matter what time it is.
And obviously to a certain extent a lot of the foods I listed are cultivated and not totally natural (chemicals, pesticides etc) but there's not much one can really do about that.
Though I'm using this diet more because I feel better, no longer get allergies, feel more alert and never feel bloated and my stomach works like clockwork every single morning.
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I was listening to Carl Lanore on www.superhumanradio.com and he had a guest on there by the name of Dr.John Crisler who is a testosterone replacement therapists and was saying that in no way shape or form should men be taking flax or any soy products as this has a tendency to convert to estrogen..lots of great info on this show and has doctors on there,carl talks to experts on the ketogenic diet on some of his episodes
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All I know is that it leaned me out by being on it for 11 days, went from this to this...
yep - dropped a ton of water from you. abs looked way better afterwrds.
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2 Qs
1. How do you workout on 0g carbs?
2. How do you go back to eating carbs after being on this diet for so long? your body is using fat for energy so once the glycogen stores have been filled any carbs coming in will turn to fat.
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I've done the Atkins diet in the past....my only carbs were coming from vegetables for a while.
Personally, not something I'd recommend if you want energy in the gym. Sure, your body gets 'used' to it but lifting weights was becoming more of me trying to summon mental strength instead of physical. To the point when it was just not fun anymore and depleting me.
When in ketosis I was always thirsty, needed to piss a lot and felt quite nervous and edgy for some reason and needed to eat someting every 2 hours or I just wouldn't have any energy, like running on empty without any reserves in the tank.
But what has worked and which I feel overall really good with is to have a low carb diet with lots of good quality protein, vegatables and fruit. And to stay away from foods containing wheat and gluten. But to still stay just above ketosis.
Basically only eating foods that aren't processed and what humans were designed to eat.
It's only the last few thousand years that humans have started farming....before that the only food we ate was what we hunted and some occasional fruits and vegetables picked from nature and not cultivated.
I've tried a higher carb diet recently and felt terrible and was getting sick really easily as well. On the 'caveman diet', my energy, mood, health and everything just feels better.
Just my own opinion though and what works for me.....might be different for other body types.
One thing Jeff and a buddy of mine Matt always told me, and now I understand, is that the longer you go low carb/ketotic...the more your thyroid output drops. When you do a carb up (properly) you should get sweaty....feel pumped (to a degree) and feel thirsty (even though you just drank a shit load of water).
I am thinking of doing some low carbing for a few weeks as I recall how much more my sex drive was when doing it like that, plus the carb ups WERE fun.
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diets are gay
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2 Qs
1. How do you workout on 0g carbs?
2. How do you go back to eating carbs after being on this diet for so long? your body is using fat for energy so once the glycogen stores have been filled any carbs coming in will turn to fat.
1) Honestly it sucks for first couple of weeks, after that....your fine. I trained Sunday (1st day after carb up), monday and sometimes tuesdays. Then I trained thursday and friday. Cardio was optional on wed and thu.
2) You do it SLOWLY. Most people jump back into eating. WELCOME TO FAT GAINVILLE...POPULATION: YOU
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2 Qs
1. How do you workout on 0g carbs?
2. How do you go back to eating carbs after being on this diet for so long? your body is using fat for energy so once the glycogen stores have been filled any carbs coming in will turn to fat.
1. through gluconeogenesis, converting fats or proteins to glucose
2. your body can come out of Ketosis as soon as you introduce your carbs back in, if you eat too many calories you'll gain fat
if you eat just enough, you wont
dosn't matter if it is all from carbs
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1. through gluconeogenesis, converting fats or proteins to glucose
2. your body can come out of Ketosis as soon as you introduce your carbs back in, if you eat too many calories you'll gain fat
if you eat just enough, you wont
dosn't matter if it is all from carbs
::)
thanks
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::)
thanks
you're welcome :)
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Creatine definately helps on a low to no carb diet as ATP will benefit from it.
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1. through gluconeogenesis, converting fats or proteins to glucose
2. your body can come out of Ketosis as soon as you introduce your carbs back in, if you eat too many calories you'll gain fat
if you eat just enough, you wont
dosn't matter if it is all from carbs
Wrong on doesnt matter. Going ketogenic for a while takes care of the insulin resistant/sensitivity issue like that of type-2 diabetics. If you dont watch the carb intake...as I said...welcome to FatGainville.
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in all honesty. i used that diet for almost 6 months. in that time my strength went to shit, i was always tired, my shoulders were dry, and in the end i ended up with torn rotators. i lost some weight, but it eventually stalled at 1500cals.
even after rehab, my shoulders were still hurting for months.
as soon as i added carbs back, my strength shot up, my shoulders now feel fine, i have energy again, i'm sleeping better.
i'm not saying don't try it, but if you do i would try a tkd version. i feel it worked much better than .
if you feel the way i did i would pack it in and go low fat instead.
Never felt that way. Weird.
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if you've been on a keto diet for any length of time, and add carbs back in - i wouldn't worry about fat gain for a while. the body will first replenish glycogen stores in the muscle and liver before any fat gain occurs, although this only last for a while - around 800g worth i believe.
in fact some experts claim the carb intake would produce a gh spike due to the body being shocked, and may stimulate some further fat loss.
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if you've been on a keto diet for any length of time, and add carbs back in - i wouldn't worry about fat gain for a while. the body will first replenish glycogen stores in the muscle and liver before any fat gain occurs, although this only last for a while - around 800g worth i believe.
in fact some experts claim the carb intake would produce a gh spike due to the body being shocked, and may stimulate some further fat loss.
the body has the capability to store only 2000 calories worth of carbs
that's 500 carbs
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if you've been on a keto diet for any length of time, and add carbs back in - i wouldn't worry about fat gain for a while. the body will first replenish glycogen stores in the muscle and liver before any fat gain occurs, although this only last for a while - around 800g worth i believe.
in fact some experts claim the carb intake would produce a gh spike due to the body being shocked, and may stimulate some further fat loss.
wrong again
carbs result in insulin release
insulin release prevents HGH release
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seriously, you do not have the intellect to engage with me on a real scientific debate.
every claim i make can be backed with studies.
every claim you make is backs by toilet paper to wipe the shit from your mouth.
hope this helps.
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The rough rule is 30 grams or under...the lower the better...almond and peanut butter are loaded with carbs...
I've always heard 50-60 grams for those who are fairly active.
And most veggies don't count.
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you do not need to worry about being in 'ketosis' or abou trace carbs from nuts, eggs, veggies, ect ect. ketosis is not a magical state its just a term to describe a metabolic state in which the brain no longer uses glucose as its main source of fuel but instead it adapts to the low glucose intake and instead uses ketones for the majority of its fuel. ketones are a by product of fat metabolism and any time you are burning fat your producing ketones. and there isnt any certain number of carbs that will put you in or out of ketosis, it varies fr4om person to person depending on individual metabolic factors. also, over time on a low carb/no starch diet your will adapt and revert to ketosis even with quite high glucose intake. this is called beign 'fat adpated' and it does take some time without eating starch for it to happen. the state of ketosis is so called 'protein sparing', because the brain uses glucose for fuel normaly, and when it uses fats instead, this eliminates the possibility of proteins being converted to glucose to meet the brains glucose demand. so it is protei sparing. but if your eating plenty of trace carbs from veggies and nuts and eggs then you will not have to worry about the possibility of proteins being converted to glucose because youll have the glucose already available from ingested trace carbohydrate. consuming plenty of veggies will prvoide many benefits to those seeking improved body composition, to name a few = better ph (more alkaline), vitamins, minerals and phytonutrients, antidioxidants, "negative calories", dietray fiber which will improve protein digestion by cleaning the dgestive tract and keping food moving and also will provide short chain fatty acids to intestinal bacteria which will lower glucose output by the liver and lower circulating insulin levels.
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seriously, you do not have the intellect to engage with me on a real scientific debate.
every claim i make can be backed with studies.
every claim you make is backs by toilet paper to wipe the shit from your mouth.
hope this helps.
i wont take sides on this, but you both should be posting studies,refs to back up your claims. One of you is right. :D
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i wont take sides on this, but you both should be posting studies,refs to back up your claims. One of you is right. :D
I'm right, like I said the body can only store 2000 calories worth of carbs, 500 calories
and insulin prevents HGH release :)
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I'm right, like I said the body can only store 2000 calories worth of carbs, 500 calories
and insulin prevents HGH release :)
enlighten the people who may not know phsiology, plus saying im right is not an argument. :D
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I'd do it again but I can't fight a zero carb isolate... :-\
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I'd do it again but I can't fight a zero carb isolate... :-\
I told you before bro, it doesn't have to be ZERO carbs
anything less than 50 carbs = keto
you have to wait about 4 days for your body to get into ketosis however
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AXA has no business in giving out ANY nutrition advice.
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AXA has no business in giving out ANY nutrition advice.
alright, yes I was not ripped to shreds at Mr. Getbig 3 ....... I didn't even diet
just because someone doesn't apply their knowledge to themselves doesn't mean they don't have the knowledge
you're saying that the person should be in Andreas Munzer condition to give out nutrition advice?
I'm trying to help people on here!
feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, or help them yourself ???
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i wont take sides on this, but you both should be posting studies,refs to back up your claims. One of you is right. :D
Ok, backing my claim the body can store around 800g of carbs in the muscle and liver.
International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: Nutrient timing.Kerksick C, Harvey T, Stout J, Campbell B, Wilborn C, Kreider R, Kalman D, Ziegenfuss T, Lopez H, Landis J, Ivy JL, Antonio J.
Department of Health and Exercise Science, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK 73019, USA. Chad_Kerksick@ou.edu.
ABSTRACT: Position Statement: The position of the Society regarding nutrient timing and the intake of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats in reference to healthy, exercising individuals is summarized by the following eight points: 1.) Maximal endogenous glycogen stores are best promoted by following a high-glycemic, high-carbohydrate (CHO) diet (600 - 1000 grams CHO or ~8 - 10 g CHO/kg/d), and ingestion of free amino acids and protein (PRO) alone or in combination with CHO before resistance exercise can maximally stimulate protein synthesis. 2.) During exercise, CHO should be consumed at a rate of 30 - 60 grams of CHO/hour in a 6 - 8% CHO solution (8 - 16 fluid ounces) every 10 - 15 minutes. Adding PRO to create a CHO:PRO ratio of 3 - 4:1 may increase endurance performance and maximally promotes glycogen re-synthesis during acute and subsequent bouts of endurance exercise. 3.) Ingesting CHO alone or in combination with PRO during resistance exercise increases muscle glycogen, offsets muscle damage, and facilitates greater training adaptations after either acute or prolonged periods of supplementation with resistance training. 4.) Post-exercise (within 30 minutes) consumption of CHO at high dosages (8 - 10 g CHO/kg/day) have been shown to stimulate muscle glycogen re-synthesis, while adding PRO (0.2 g - 0.5 g PRO/kg/day) to CHO at a ratio of 3 - 4:1 (CHO: PRO) may further enhance glycogen re-synthesis. 5.) Post-exercise ingestion (immediately to 3 h post) of amino acids, primarily essential amino acids, has been shown to stimulate robust increases in muscle protein synthesis, while the addition of CHO may stimulate even greater levels of protein synthesis. Additionally, pre-exercise consumption of a CHO + PRO supplement may result in peak levels of protein synthesis. 6.) During consistent, prolonged resistance training, post-exercise consumption of varying doses of CHO + PRO supplements in varying dosages have been shown to stimulate improvements in strength and body composition when compared to control or placebo conditions. 7.) The addition of creatine (Cr) (0.1 g Cr/kg/day) to a CHO + PRO supplement may facilitate even greater adaptations to resistance training. 8.) Nutrient timing incorporates the use of methodical planning and eating of whole foods, nutrients extracted from food, and other sources. The timing of the energy intake and the ratio of certain ingested macronutrients are likely the attributes which allow for enhanced recovery and tissue repair following high-volume exercise, augmented muscle protein synthesis, and improved mood states when compared with unplanned or traditional strategies of nutrient intake.
and
Dietary carbohydrate, muscle glycogen, and power output during rowing training.Simonsen JC, Sherman WM, Lamb DR, Dernbach AR, Doyle JA, Strauss R.
Exercise Physiology Laboratory, School of Health, Physical Education, and Recreation, Ohio State University, Columbus 43210-1284.
The belief that high-carbohydrate diets enhance training capacity (mean power output) has been extrapolated from studies that have varied dietary carbohydrate over a few days and measured muscle glycogen but did not assess power output during training. We hypothesized that a high-carbohydrate (HI) diet (10 g.kg body mass-1.day-1) would promote greater muscle glycogen content and greater mean power output during training than a moderate-carbohydrate (MOD) diet (5 g.kg body mass-1.day-1) over 4 wk of intense twice-daily rowing training. Dietary protein intake was 2 g.kg body mass-1.day-1, and fat intake was adjusted to maintain body mass. Twelve male and 10 female collegiate rowers were randomly assigned to the treatment groups. Training was 40 min at 70% peak O2 consumption (VO2) (A.M.) and either three 2,500-m time trials to assess power output or interval training at 70-90% peak VO2 (P.M.). Mean daily training was 65 min at 70% peak VO2 and 38 min at greater than or equal to 90% peak VO2. Mean muscle glycogen content increased 65% in the HI group (P less than 0.05) but remained constant at 119 mmol/kg in the MOD group over the 4 wk. Mean power output in time trials increased 10.7 and 1.6% after 4 wk in the HI and MOD groups, respectively (P less than 0.05). We conclude that a diet with 10 g carbohydrate.kg body mass-1.day-1 promotes greater muscle glycogen content and greater power output during training than a diet containing 5 g carbohydrate.kg body mass-1.day-1 over 4 wk of intense twice-daily rowing training.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)
to back my claim that carbs may lead to a gh boost:
Dr Mauro Pasquale claims in his anabolic diet book Chp 3, p27:
Growth hormone also acts almost like a “starvation” hormone. When your body’s in trouble
or when you’re threatened or in “fight or flight syndrome,” GH kicks in to mobilize stores of
energy in the body to deal with stress and these increased needs. It will also increase under the
stress of exercise. Usually insulin works to decrease the secretion of growth hormone, but the body sees the
great increase in carbs and insulin during the weekend as a stressful situation, much like exercise,
and growth hormone actually increases with insulin. In this way, we get the positive effects of
growth hormone stimulus both during the week and on weekends.
and further proof than increased insulin levels do not necesarily negate gh effects.:
Dietary supplements affect the anabolic hormones after weight-training exercise
R. M. Chandler, H. K. Byrne, J. G. Patterson and J. L. Ivy
Department of Kinesiology, University of Texas at Austin 78712.
To examine the effect of carbohydrate and/or protein supplements on the hormonal state of the body after weight-training exercise, nine experienced male weight lifters were given water (Control) or an isocaloric carbohydrate (CHO; 1.5 g/kg body wt), protein (PRO; 1.38 g/kg body wt), or carbohydrate-protein (CHO/PRO; 1.06 g carbohydrate/kg body wt and 0.41 g protein/kg) supplement immediately and 2 h after a standardized weight-training workout. Venous blood samples were drawn before and immediately after exercise and during 8 h of recovery. Exercise induced elevations in lactate, glucose, testosterone, and growth hormone. CHO and CHO/PRO stimulated higher insulin concentrations than PRO and Control. CHO/PRO led to an increase in growth hormone 6 h postexercise that was greater than PRO and Control. Supplements had no effect on insulin-like growth factor I but caused a significant decline in testosterone. The decline in testosterone, however, was not associated with a decline in luteinizing hormone, suggesting an increased clearance of testosterone after supplementation. The results suggest that nutritive supplements after weight-training exercise can produce a hormonal environment during recovery that may be favorable to muscle growth by stimulating insulin and growth hormone elevations.
I now await AsjPathetics response, but i won;t be holding my breath while i wait. ::)
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These!
you do not need to worry about being in 'ketosis' or abou trace carbs from nuts, eggs, veggies, ect ect. ketosis is not a magical state its just a term to describe a metabolic state in which the brain no longer uses glucose as its main source of fuel but instead it adapts to the low glucose intake and instead uses ketones for the majority of its fuel. ketones are a by product of fat metabolism and any time you are burning fat your producing ketones. and there isnt any certain number of carbs that will put you in or out of ketosis, it varies fr4om person to person depending on individual metabolic factors. also, over time on a low carb/no starch diet your will adapt and revert to ketosis even with quite high glucose intake. this is called beign 'fat adpated' and it does take some time without eating starch for it to happen. the state of ketosis is so called 'protein sparing', because the brain uses glucose for fuel normaly, and when it uses fats instead, this eliminates the possibility of proteins being converted to glucose to meet the brains glucose demand. so it is protei sparing. but if your eating plenty of trace carbs from veggies and nuts and eggs then you will not have to worry about the possibility of proteins being converted to glucose because youll have the glucose already available from ingested trace carbohydrate. consuming plenty of veggies will prvoide many benefits to those seeking improved body composition, to name a few = better ph (more alkaline), vitamins, minerals and phytonutrients, antidioxidants, "negative calories", dietray fiber which will improve protein digestion by cleaning the dgestive tract and keping food moving and also will provide short chain fatty acids to intestinal bacteria which will lower glucose output by the liver and lower circulating insulin levels.
Hell, I'd take it a step further & say there is no such thing as being "in" or "out" of ketosis (contrary to what I used to think) in the sense that bodybuilders seem to think of it. It's not like 29g of carbs a day and you're "in" but 31g and you're suddenly "out." It is only the depth of ketosis that varies imo.
i wrote this some time back on another forum
1st of all why do you loose fat when on a ketogenic diet??
The brain need 150g sugar and 2000 liter oxygen per day … however when you are giving you body less carbohydrates (sugar) the brain starts to give signals that it needs sugar and makes you feel hungry and feel depressed regardless how much protein and fat you eat for the first 3 or 4 days … then after the brain gets convinced that no sugar is going in … “Ketons” are released in the blood stream and the body turns to the ketosis mode
In this phase the body is using fat as a source of energy (for the brain and rest of the organs and activates) however … the body tends to release stored fat only when fat is coming in the body that’s why you should continue taking good fat (essential fat) … a rule of thumb is 1-1.5g protein per lbs + .75g essential fat + carbs only from vegetable that is mostly fiber and the human body cannot digest fiber and use it as a source of energy (the human body doesn’t have the enzymes required to convert fiber to usable energy source)
So no starch, dairy, fruit sugar is allowed in this diet (i.e lactose & fructose)
Types of fat:
If you take in any kind of fat ... the diet will still work perfectly fine … but in sports nutrition “HEALTH” is the 1st aspect of any diet … so fat should be consumed from the follow:
1. raw and non-roasted nuts (pistachio, cashew nut, almonds, whole nut … but not from peanuts)
2. omega 3 and 6 balanced oils … like fish oil … however olive oil is hi in omega 6 and flax seed is hi in omega 3 and neither is a balanced choice … that’s y “Udo Erasmus” who is discovered flaxseed oil made a blend and called it “Udo’s choice” which has a balance of all 3 omegas (3,6,9) … what I recommend is half table spoon of flaxseed oil and half table spoon of olive oil to get a balanced omega 3 and 6 oil … and if you are taking 2 table spoons of oil .. than 1 tbl spn flaxseed oil and 1 tbl spn olive oil … cheaper and effective … BUT “DON’T COOK WITH IT”
3. almond butter, whole nut butter, cashew nut butter without any additive sugar … so a 100g of the butter should only have around 5 grams carbs … which is what u get from the actual nut
4. egg yolks are ok … however omega 3 eggs are better (if eaten raw) but it is too expensive … just stick to the regular eggs and you will be fine
What is Saturated and Trans fat?
Saturated fat can be found in red poultry (duck and turkey) and red meat … however saturated fat has been proven to be necessary for testosterone production and is a must have in any diet.
After 8 years of research and spending hell lot of money on researches to discover what is the main reason for heart diseases in the past few decades … “Trans fat” was announced to be the winner … trans fat is a type of fat that doesn’t exist in nature … it is created when over heating fat or oil … so it was created by humans … after that research … every company in the states and some European countries were obliged to have a trans fat row in their nutrition fact label … so if you will get most of you fat from t-bone steak and deep fried chicken the diet will definitely work ... however not a healthy choice … so it is better to make the diet work and stay I the safe zone …
If you follow what “Dr. Atkins” advocated he didn’t really care what type of fat you ate … but you got to keep an eye on you cholesterol and triglyceride which will stay moderate as long as you don’t take hi sugar … but will be like a “TIMED BOMB” waiting to explode once you go off the diet and eat sugar … where as with healthy fat … you might experience a bit hi cholesterol … but for athletes hi cholesterol is common for good testosterone production (and most of it will be HDL anyway)
When you do this diet … usually a lot of people loose 2-4KGs in the first 4 days cause you body is getting the glycogen out of the muscle and no water is stored with respect to glycogen storage (cause of 0 carbs) … joint will get a bit weaker again for the reason of less water retention … so increasing your sodium and taking any form of “Glucosamine” is advised.
Sex drive wont be at its peak … but you will have 80% of it all the time with out getting crazy hormone rage or crashing after that (like what happens in a hi carb diet) … once you get use to it … you will be stable and will be able to think straight and the depression will go away (that is after the 4 days)
You can stay on this diet for 16-20 weeks maximum and only when getting for shoow and how far away you are … later on you can get back on a regular diet … a 40% protein 40%carbs and 20% essential fat will be just fine … just stay away from “HI FUCTOSE CORN SYRUP”
Uric acid and BUN “Blood Urea Nitrogen” can usually get hi in any high protein diet … and that occurs when consuming more protein than you use … Uric acid and BUN are referred to as protein waste as well … however HMB has proven to drop those values by holding the protein synthesis.
I've done the Atkins diet in the past....my only carbs were coming from vegetables for a while.
Personally, not something I'd recommend if you want energy in the gym. Sure, your body gets 'used' to it but lifting weights was becoming more of me trying to summon mental strength instead of physical. To the point when it was just not fun anymore and depleting me.
When in ketosis I was always thirsty, needed to piss a lot and felt quite nervous and edgy for some reason and needed to eat someting every 2 hours or I just wouldn't have any energy, like running on empty without any reserves in the tank.
But what has worked and which I feel overall really good with is to have a low carb diet with lots of good quality protein, vegatables and fruit. And to stay away from foods containing wheat and gluten. But to still stay just above ketosis.
Basically only eating foods that aren't processed and what humans were designed to eat.
It's only the last few thousand years that humans have started farming....before that the only food we ate was what we hunted and some occasional fruits and vegetables picked from nature and not cultivated.
I've tried a higher carb diet recently and felt terrible and was getting sick really easily as well. On the 'caveman diet', my energy, mood, health and everything just feels better.
Just my own opinion though and what works for me.....might be different for other body types.
Gluten is not a carb but a protein that gets formed when the wheat germ gets wet and two other proteins, gliadin and glutenin, combine. It's what gives bread the required structural strength to support itself through rising and baking, and (because it's tough and chewy...gluey!) it's what you don't want a lot of in a cake. That's why summer wheat which is comparatively high in protein makes the best breads while "cake flour" contains only enough protein to support the delicate structure (which is why your mom always told you not to open the oven door until the cake is fully baked).
Enough with the baking lesson. Excellent post. And another:
Basically just keeping more to the types of foods that humans would have eaten when we were still hunter-gatherers. Foods like beef, chicken, fish and lots of fruit, vegetables and some nuts and seeds.
And to stay away from foods like bread, pasta, pastries, rice, foods with processed sugars or just processed foods in general.
I also stay away from protein shakes, soya and milk (except yoghurt)
This is just my loose interpretation of such diet and I don't think it should be absolute. For instance I do have some oats and I sometimes will have some burgers from Mcdonald's but this is very rare. I also eat organic peanut-butter.
And if I feel hungry, I eat, it doesn't matter what time it is.
And obviously to a certain extent a lot of the foods I listed are cultivated and not totally natural (chemicals, pesticides etc) but there's not much one can really do about that.
Though I'm using this diet more because I feel better, no longer get allergies, feel more alert and never feel bloated and my stomach works like clockwork every single morning.
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These!
Hell, I'd take it a step further & say there is no such thing as being "in" or "out" of ketosis (contrary to what I used to think) in the sense that bodybuilders seem to think of it. It's not like 29g of carbs a day and you're "in" but 31g and you're suddenly "out." It is only the depth of ketosis that varies imo.
This is true.
Also there is evedence to suggest that being in ketosis is not protein sparing at all, and actually the opposite. :o
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This is true.
Also there is evedence to suggest that being in ketosis is not protein sparing at all, and actually the opposite. :o
I like Griffith's approach, if I understand him correctly. Moderated carb consumption from (mostly) good sources. I'm day 2 into a mini-diet. (Mom's coming for Christmas and o man can she cook!) Roughly 180g/day, might cycle it around a bit depending on how I feel, but I'll bet I'd get a little color change on a keto stick at even 180g since I'm in cal debt. Muscle loss shouldn't be a concern tho since I'm not pushing that hard.
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This is true.
Also there is evedence to suggest that being in ketosis is not protein sparing at all, and actually the opposite. :o
all your little study there proved was "Maximal endogenous glycogen stores are best promoted by following a high-glycemic, high-carbohydrate (CHO) diet (600 - 1000 grams CHO or ~8 - 10 g CHO/kg/d),"
doesn't say ANYTHING about 800 carbs being able to be stored in the body
doesn't mean cuz you take 1000 carbs, they are all going to be stored as glycogen
because the limit is 500 carbs genius, hope this helps :D
and if you wanna play your little study game, play with Adonis, I don't have time to dig up everything I have ever read ::)
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all your little study there proved was "Maximal endogenous glycogen stores are best promoted by following a high-glycemic, high-carbohydrate (CHO) diet (600 - 1000 grams CHO or ~8 - 10 g CHO/kg/d),"
doesn't say ANYTHING about 800 carbs being able to be stored in the body
doesn't mean cuz you take 1000 carbs, they are all going to be stored as glycogen
because the limit is 500 carbs genius, hope this helps :D
and if you wanna play your little study game, play with Adonis, I don't have time to dig up everything I have ever read ::)
Easy with the numbers stud. I'm thinking Ronnie Coleman can hold a little more than I can.
On another note, I'd speculate that glycogen production isn't going to be 100% efficient - that is, not every gram of carb is going to go straight to the muscle. With super elevated blood sugar, a higher % is going to become fat even in a glycogen depleted state. Yes... I'm just guessing.
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Easy with the numbers stud. I'm thinking Ronnie Coleman can hold a little more than I can.
On another note, I'd speculate that glycogen production isn't going to be 100% efficient - that is, not every gram of carb is going to go straight to the muscle. With super elevated blood sugar, a higher % is going to become fat even in a glycogen depleted state. Yes... I'm just guessing.
exactly ;)
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exactly ;)
So now stringbean is a nutrition guru. ::)
How many carbs do you think Jay Cutler eats per day. Do you think its more that 500?
Kill yourself stud,
HTH.
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and if you wanna play your little study game, play with Adonis, I don't have time to dig up everything I have ever read ::)
::)
didn't think so stud, thanks for playing.
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So now stringbean is a nutrition guru. ::)
How many carbs do you think Jay Cutler eats per day. Do you think its more that 500?
Kill yourself stud,
HTH.
so what if he eats more than 500 carbs?
it doesn't mean they are all going to be stored in the form of glycogen and glucose
eating it and the body storage are two different things, read something before you talk to me about nutrition
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so what if he eats more than 500 carbs?
it doesn't mean they are all going to be stored in the form of glycogen and glucose
eating it and the body storage are two different things, read something before you talk to me about nutrition
hahahahahaha
seriously shut up, you know nothing.
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This thread is very close to being toast.
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This thread is very close to being toast.
you should just ban AXA from this board. the discussions would be better all round.