ketogenic

[Go 4 It]

good shape there go 4 it,how much yu weigh in 2nd pic,how much weight difference from 2 pics

First pic is pretty much how I look in the winter visible abs, but not shredded, not much cardio or dieting, I probably weighed around 172 or so. Sencond pic 165.

[AVBG]

MEN'S DIET

MEAL #1
4 whole Omega-3 Eggs (with 4 additional whites)

MEAL #2
SHAKE: 40g protein with 1 Tablespoon of All Natural PB


MEAL #3
"Lean Protein Meal" 6oz chicken (or Turkey, or tilapia, flounder, or cod) with 1/3-cup RAW almonds, cashews or walnuts

MEAL #4
Repeat MEAL #3

MEAL #5
"Fatty Protein Meal" 6oz Salmon, Swordfish, or 8oz RED MEAT (filet mignon, or top round cut) with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar

MEAL #6 40g protein with 1 tablespoon of All Natural Peanutbutter


*****MEAL ORDER IS UNIMPORTANT. ALL MEALS ARE EQUAL.


***ONCE A WEEK, HAVE A CHEAT MEAL (instead of MEAL #6) - try to make it the last meal of the day (start after 2 weeks on the diet)
*** You can use sugar-free soy sauce, mustard, and vinegar for condiments.
*** You can drink water, sugar-free drinks (diet soda), coffee, or tea with STEVIA BALANCE (no Equal or Splenda Packets).
*** NO GUM CHEWING (limit to 3 pieces per day)

 

[PJim]

In my opinion THE best diet available to a bodybuilder/trainer looking to cut down. I used this diet for my last cut-down and had virtually no apetite/craving even on as low as 1200 calories. I found that the only supplements I needed were additional vitamin C, zinc, multi-vitamin and evening primrose oil. Omega 3 can be easily obtained from salmon etc. The funny thing is that I managed to maintain my strength using this diet for 6 months without a single "carb up" day. What I will say though, is that anyone looking to go intense in the gym for the purpose of adding additional muscle, should look to include a a couple of carb up days so that glycogen can be utilised to full effect. What I love about it most, is the feeling of well-being you get, I put this down to the brains ability to run very well off of ketones, much better in fact than sugar.

[dodger]

In my opinion THE best diet available to a bodybuilder/trainer looking to cut down. I used this diet for my last cut-down and had virtually no apetite/craving even on as low as 1200 calories. I found that the only supplements I needed were additional vitamin C, zinc, multi-vitamin and evening primrose oil. Omega 3 can be easily obtained from salmon etc. The funny thing is that I managed to maintain my strength using this diet for 6 months without a single "carb up" day. What I will say though, is that anyone looking to go intense in the gym for the purpose of adding additional muscle, should look to include a a couple of carb up days so that glycogen can be utilised to full effect. What I love about it most, is the feeling of well-being you get, I put this down to the brains ability to run very well off of ketones, much better in fact than sugar.

now this is what ive been reading about this.....yes it says that you dont lose strenght  and can actually gain strenght if your only training moderate to high intensity instead of full blown high-super intensity....less stress on organs and joints....but i would like to know if you can gain weight as long as you are keeping up the same calorie intake..and i did read that you do feel great on this.

[Relentless]

MEN'S DIET

MEAL #1
4 whole Omega-3 Eggs (with 4 additional whites)

MEAL #2
SHAKE: 40g protein with 1 Tablespoon of All Natural PB


MEAL #3
"Lean Protein Meal" 6oz chicken (or Turkey, or tilapia, flounder, or cod) with 1/3-cup RAW almonds, cashews or walnuts

MEAL #4
Repeat MEAL #3

MEAL #5
"Fatty Protein Meal" 6oz Salmon, Swordfish, or 8oz RED MEAT (filet mignon, or top round cut) with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar

MEAL #6 40g protein with 1 tablespoon of All Natural Peanutbutter


*****MEAL ORDER IS UNIMPORTANT. ALL MEALS ARE EQUAL.


***ONCE A WEEK, HAVE A CHEAT MEAL (instead of MEAL #6) - try to make it the last meal of the day (start after 2 weeks on the diet)
*** You can use sugar-free soy sauce, mustard, and vinegar for condiments.
*** You can drink water, sugar-free drinks (diet soda), coffee, or tea with STEVIA BALANCE (no Equal or Splenda Packets).
*** NO GUM CHEWING (limit to 3 pieces per day)

 

It looks like you have been spending some time over at Dave Palumbo's thread on MD.  This is the diet I will be using for my first show in a few months.  Everyone over there raves about it and Dave knows his shit as well as anyone in bodybuilding.

[AVBG]

keto is not for gaining weight, unless you add carbs. 200-300g per day distributed throughout the meals.

[AVBG]

It looks like you have been spending some time over at Dave Palumbo's thread on MD.  This is the diet I will be using for my first show in a few months.  Everyone over there raves about it and Dave knows his shit as well as anyone in bodybuilding.

it's good and free info. I got shredded for a show using the info. Checkout my pics on the positive board.

[PJim]

Hmm, I'm not sure what to think on the gaining muscle part. I think that calories play the most vital role in muscle growth. My analogy of nutrition is this; amino acids are the bricks and mortar, calories are the builders/workmen. I believe that if you have additonal calories in the form of bodyfat on your body, then you can grow even in a calorie deficit. It's when bodyfat is very low that a surplus of calories from food are needed for additonal growth.

[Krankenstein]

I hope this helps you
I wouldn't do it, and here is why

Have you ever tried it the RIGHT way?  I will tell you that if you didnt.....you are missing out.  My buddy Jeff Krabbe was helping Lyle out with the Ketogenic diet book gave me some good insight on how to do it right.  Its a little different than what the book had.  Let me say that I carbed from friday night till saturday night.  Sunday's chest/back workout was nothing short of incredible.  The pump was almost drug-like.

In any event....if you cant tell someone why not to do a diet without googling something....it would be best not to give advice like you just did.

[PJim]

Have you ever tried it the RIGHT way?  I will tell you that if you didnt.....you are missing out.  My buddy Jeff Krabbe was helping Lyle out with the Ketogenic diet book gave me some good insight on how to do it right.  Its a little different than what the book had.  Let me say that I carbed from friday night till saturday night.  Sunday's chest/back workout was nothing short of incredible.  The pump was almost drug-like.

In any event....if you cant tell someone why not to do a diet without googling something....it would be best not to give advice like you just did.

Exactly, all this talk of muscle loss and such is trash. Most people see themselves a little bit depleted, a little bit flatter and they scream "muscle loss!". You are in a calorie defecit you are NOT going to have the fullest looking muscles whichever "diet" you are using. The body can survive perfectly fine without dietary carbohydrates, any sugar it does need in fact it will manufacture itself, which by the way is a very insignificant amount once you are taking into account energy given by triglycerides/ketones. Another small note to AXA, on the subject of "muscle loss"; did you know that reducing dietary carbohydrates to limited amounts maximises Growth Hormone. When you take into account what this magical hormone does for muscle growth/bodyfat loss your argument seems flawed.

[ASJChaotic]

AXA - I'd think you'd struggle with any diet let alone a keto diet.

probably,
I love food. 

[PJim]

probably,
I love food. 

We all love food. I think that's why we talk about it so much, but whether we're willing to cut back a little bit is dependant on how badly we want results.

[aliamini]

i wrote this some time back on another forum

1st of all why do you loose fat when on a ketogenic diet??

The brain need 150g sugar and 2000 liter oxygen per day … however when you are giving you body less carbohydrates (sugar) the brain starts to give signals that it needs sugar and makes you feel hungry and feel depressed regardless how much protein and fat you eat for the first 3 or 4 days … then after the brain gets convinced that no sugar is going in … “Ketons” are released in the blood stream and the body turns to the ketosis mode

In this phase the body is using fat as a source of energy (for the brain and rest of the organs and activates) however … the body tends to release stored fat only when fat is coming in the body that’s why you should continue taking good fat (essential fat) … a rule of thumb is 1-1.5g protein per lbs + .75g essential fat + carbs only from vegetable that is mostly fiber and the human body cannot digest fiber and use it as a source of energy (the human body doesn’t have the enzymes required to convert fiber to usable energy source)

So no starch, dairy, fruit sugar is allowed in this diet (i.e lactose & fructose)

Types of fat:

If you take in any kind of fat ... the diet will still work perfectly fine … but in sports nutrition “HEALTH” is the 1st aspect of any diet … so fat should be consumed from the follow:

1. raw and non-roasted nuts (pistachio, cashew nut, almonds, whole nut … but not from peanuts)
2. omega 3 and 6 balanced oils … like fish oil … however olive oil is hi in omega 6 and flax seed is hi in omega 3 and neither is a balanced choice … that’s y “Udo Erasmus” who is discovered flaxseed oil made a blend and called it “Udo’s choice” which has a balance of all 3 omegas (3,6,9) … what I recommend is half table spoon of flaxseed oil and half table spoon of olive oil to get a balanced omega 3 and 6 oil … and if you are taking 2 table spoons of oil .. than 1 tbl spn flaxseed oil and 1 tbl spn olive oil … cheaper and effective … BUT “DON’T COOK WITH IT”
3. almond butter, whole nut butter, cashew nut butter without any additive sugar … so a 100g of the butter should only have around 5 grams carbs … which is what u get from the actual nut
4. egg yolks are ok … however omega 3 eggs are better (if eaten raw) but it is too expensive … just stick to the regular eggs and you will be fine


What is Saturated and Trans fat?

Saturated fat can be found in red poultry (duck and turkey) and red meat … however saturated fat has been proven to be necessary for testosterone production and is a must have in any diet.

After 8 years of research and spending hell lot of money on researches to discover what is the main reason for heart diseases in the past few decades … “Trans fat” was announced to be the winner … trans fat is a type of fat that doesn’t exist in nature … it is created when over heating fat or oil … so it was created by humans … after that research … every company in the states and some European countries were obliged to have a trans fat row in their nutrition fact label … so if you will get most of you fat from t-bone steak and deep fried chicken the diet will definitely work ... however not a healthy choice … so it is better to make the diet work and stay I the safe zone …

If you follow what “Dr. Atkins” advocated he didn’t really care what type of fat you ate … but you got to keep an eye on you cholesterol and triglyceride which will stay moderate as long as you don’t take hi sugar … but will be like a “TIMED BOMB” waiting to explode once you go off the diet and eat sugar … where as with healthy fat … you might experience a bit hi cholesterol … but for athletes hi cholesterol is common for good testosterone production (and most of it will be HDL anyway)

When you do this diet … usually a lot of people loose 2-4KGs in the first 4 days cause you body is getting the glycogen out of the muscle and no water is stored with respect to glycogen storage (cause of 0 carbs) … joint will get a bit weaker again for the reason of less water retention … so increasing your sodium and taking any form of “Glucosamine” is advised.

Sex drive wont be at its peak … but you will have 80% of it all the time with out getting crazy hormone rage or crashing after that (like what happens in a hi carb diet) … once you get use to it … you will be stable and will be able to think straight and the depression will go away (that is after the 4 days)

You can stay on this diet for 16-20 weeks maximum and only when getting for shoow and how far away you are … later on you can get back on a regular diet … a 40% protein 40%carbs and 20% essential fat will be just fine … just stay away from “HI FUCTOSE CORN SYRUP”


Uric acid and BUN “Blood Urea Nitrogen” can usually get hi in any high protein diet … and that occurs when consuming more protein than you use … Uric acid and BUN are referred to as protein waste as well … however HMB has proven to drop those values by holding the protein synthesis.

[Deicide]

To be honest I am considering do this for a while again...kind of sad to be at a plateau in the 20% range or so...but...

[Griffith]

I've done the Atkins diet in the past....my only carbs were coming from vegetables for a while.
Personally, not something I'd recommend if you want energy in the gym. Sure, your body gets 'used' to it but lifting weights was becoming more of me trying to summon mental strength instead of physical. To the point when it was just not fun anymore and depleting me.
When in ketosis I was always thirsty, needed to piss a lot  and felt quite nervous and edgy for some reason and needed to eat someting every 2 hours or I just wouldn't have any energy, like running on empty without any reserves in the tank.

But what has worked and which I feel overall really good with is to have a low carb diet with lots of good quality protein, vegatables and fruit. And to stay away from foods containing wheat and gluten. But to still stay just above ketosis.
Basically only eating foods that aren't processed and what humans were designed to eat.

It's only the last few thousand years that humans have started farming....before that the only food we ate was what we hunted and some occasional fruits and vegetables picked from nature and not cultivated.

I've tried a higher carb diet recently and felt terrible and was getting sick really easily as well. On the 'caveman diet', my energy, mood, health and everything just feels better.
Just my own opinion though and what works for me.....might be different for other body types.

[Deicide]

I've done the Atkins diet in the past....my only carbs were coming from vegetables for a while.
Personally, not something I'd recommend if you want energy in the gym. Sure, your body gets 'used' to it but lifting weights was becoming more of me trying to summon mental strength instead of physical. To the point when it was just not fun anymore and depleting me.
When in ketosis I was always thirsty, needed to piss a lot  and felt quite nervous and edgy for some reason and needed to eat someting every 2 hours or I just wouldn't have any energy, like running on empty without any reserves in the tank.

But what has worked and which I feel overall really good with is to have a low carb diet with lots of good quality protein, vegatables and fruit. And to stay away from foods containing wheat and gluten. But to still stay just above ketosis.
Basically only eating foods that aren't processed and what humans were designed to eat.

It's only the last few thousand years that humans have started farming....before that the only food we ate was what we hunted and some occasional fruits and vegetables picked from nature and not cultivated.

I've tried a higher carb diet recently and felt terrible and was getting sick really easily as well. On the 'caveman diet', my energy, mood, health and everything just feels better.
Just my own opinion though and what works for me.....might be different for other body types.

In your definition what does the caveman diet entail?

[Fatpanda]

in all honesty. i used that diet for almost 6 months. in that time my strength went to shit, i was always tired, my shoulders were dry, and in the end i ended up with torn rotators. i lost some weight, but it eventually stalled at 1500cals.

even after rehab, my shoulders were still hurting for months.

as soon as i added carbs back, my strength shot up, my shoulders now feel fine, i have energy again, i'm sleeping better.

i'm not saying don't try it, but if you do i would try a tkd version. i feel it worked much better than .

if you feel the way i did i would pack it in and go low fat instead.

[Griffith]

In your definition what does the caveman diet entail?

Basically just keeping more to the types of foods that humans would have eaten when we were still hunter-gatherers. Foods like beef, chicken, fish and lots of fruit, vegetables and some nuts and seeds.
And to stay away from foods like bread, pasta, pastries, rice, foods with processed sugars or just processed foods in general.
I also stay away from protein shakes, soya and milk (except yoghurt)

This is just my loose interpretation of such diet and I don't think it should be absolute. For instance I do have some oats and I sometimes will have some burgers from Mcdonald's but this is very rare. I also eat organic peanut-butter.
And if I feel hungry, I eat, it doesn't matter what time it is.

And obviously to a certain extent a lot of the foods I listed are cultivated and not totally natural (chemicals, pesticides etc) but there's not much one can really do about that.

Though I'm using this diet more because I feel better, no longer get allergies, feel more alert and never feel bloated and my stomach works like clockwork every single morning.

[dodger]

I was listening to Carl Lanore on www.superhumanradio.com and he had a guest on there by the name of Dr.John Crisler who is a testosterone replacement therapists and was saying that in no way shape or form should men be taking flax or any soy products as this has a tendency to convert to estrogen..lots of great info on this show and has doctors on there,carl talks to experts on the ketogenic diet on some of his episodes

[240 is Back]

All I know is that it leaned me out by being on it for 11 days, went from this to this...

yep - dropped a ton of water from you.  abs looked way better afterwrds.

[Bobby]

2 Qs

1. How do you workout on 0g carbs?

2. How do you go back to eating carbs after being on this diet for so long? your body is using fat for energy so once the glycogen stores have been filled any carbs coming in will turn to fat.

[Krankenstein]

I've done the Atkins diet in the past....my only carbs were coming from vegetables for a while.
Personally, not something I'd recommend if you want energy in the gym. Sure, your body gets 'used' to it but lifting weights was becoming more of me trying to summon mental strength instead of physical. To the point when it was just not fun anymore and depleting me.
When in ketosis I was always thirsty, needed to piss a lot  and felt quite nervous and edgy for some reason and needed to eat someting every 2 hours or I just wouldn't have any energy, like running on empty without any reserves in the tank.

But what has worked and which I feel overall really good with is to have a low carb diet with lots of good quality protein, vegatables and fruit. And to stay away from foods containing wheat and gluten. But to still stay just above ketosis.
Basically only eating foods that aren't processed and what humans were designed to eat.

It's only the last few thousand years that humans have started farming....before that the only food we ate was what we hunted and some occasional fruits and vegetables picked from nature and not cultivated.

I've tried a higher carb diet recently and felt terrible and was getting sick really easily as well. On the 'caveman diet', my energy, mood, health and everything just feels better.
Just my own opinion though and what works for me.....might be different for other body types.

One thing Jeff and a buddy of mine Matt always told me, and now I understand, is that the longer you go low carb/ketotic...the more your thyroid output drops.  When you do a carb up (properly) you should get sweaty....feel pumped (to a degree) and feel thirsty (even though you just drank a shit load of water).

I am thinking of doing some low carbing for a few weeks as I recall how much more my sex drive was when doing it like that, plus the carb ups WERE fun.

[The Showstoppa]

diets are gay

[Krankenstein]

2 Qs

1. How do you workout on 0g carbs?

2. How do you go back to eating carbs after being on this diet for so long? your body is using fat for energy so once the glycogen stores have been filled any carbs coming in will turn to fat.

1) Honestly it sucks for first couple of weeks, after that....your fine.  I trained Sunday (1st day after carb up), monday and sometimes tuesdays.  Then I trained thursday and friday.  Cardio was optional on wed and thu.

2) You do it SLOWLY.  Most people jump back into eating.  WELCOME TO FAT GAINVILLE...POPULATION: YOU

[ASJChaotic]

2 Qs

1. How do you workout on 0g carbs?

2. How do you go back to eating carbs after being on this diet for so long? your body is using fat for energy so once the glycogen stores have been filled any carbs coming in will turn to fat.

1. through gluconeogenesis, converting fats or proteins to glucose

2. your body can come out of Ketosis as soon as you introduce your carbs back in, if you eat too many calories you'll gain fat
if you eat just enough, you wont
dosn't matter if it is all from carbs